Screed's Mechanic Guide

[gigobyte]

A while back, I was asked for advice on how to make/play a mechanic rog, I am quite ashamed to say that I was not quite as helpfull as I could have been, and as an attempt to remedy the situation, I have created a guide for how to build/play a mechanic, based on research, and my own experience. This is not a perfect guide, it is just some tips on how the class can be built/played.



Overview: The mechanic focuses on disabling traps, and picking locks, they are unrivaled at these skills, but often have to sacrifice some of their combat abilities to achieve this. Note: It has been my experience that many parties don’t care about a rog’s combat ability, as long as he or she can get them past the traps. Also, as of update 5, the mechanic has become more of a ranged class.

Race: As the build requires high DEX and INT, Drow is the obvious choice, for those without Drow, Halfling, Elf or Human would be the best choices. Halflings, due to their small size are sometimes able to tumble right under a trap without a save, they also get +4 to jump, which can help them clear a trap they can’t tumble under. Their +1 to saves also helps them save against the traps they can’t jump/tumble past. Elves get +2 to Listen, Search, and Spot. This can help in finding some of the harder traps. Humans get an extra feat and skill points, and the mechanic, as a skill based class needs all the skill points he or she can get. Human adaptability is also very useful for boosting INT and DEX. Drow starts off with higher INT than the other races, and gets +2 to Search, Spot, and Listen.

Stats: INT boosts the mechanic’s disable and search skills, and gives more skill points, it also increases the damage he or she can dish out with a crossbow (after level 6.) DEX boosts his dodging and sneaking abilities as well as improving open lock and boosting to-hit with a crossbow. CHA is used for diplomacy, bluff, and UMD, it’s really more of a dump stat for the mechanic though. WIS helps the mechanic’s spot checks, but it’s really just another dump stat. STR is next to worthless for a mechanic, it does help crossbow dps in any way, at lower levels there are issues with hobgoblin mages that cast ray of enfeeblement, so perhaps have 7-9 str and pick up a +1 item at the beginning. CON, while not as important to the mechanic as other rouge builds, is still quite I would recommend having a bare minimum of 10 con. Preferably a bit higher.

Skills: Disable Device, Search and Open Lock are a must. Balance helps if you plan on taking the defender enhancements. Diplomacy is good for keeping aggro off. Bluff is not terribly useful for a mechanic, as it does not remove aggro on you. Haggle should only be taken if you have all the skills you need and still have points left. Hide and Move Silently are quite useful, but you need to take both, or neither. Jump is almost a must, it does help clearing traps, but most boxes are on the near side of the trap. I personally believe that Listen is a waste, as a mechanic you will have a rather high spot score anyway, and should be able to see anyone trying to sneak up on you. Repair is also a waste, Screed took it, but has never used it. Spot is very useful because it can give some warning of an upcoming trap or secret door, and allows you to see monsters that try and sneak up on you. Swim helps at lower levels, but becomes useless the moment you find an underwater action item. Tumble is useful because it allows you to roll right under certain traps (Halfling only), and helps you move faster through water. UMD lets you use powerful gear and healing wands at higher levels, this skill should be taken in most mechanic builds.

Class Feats: Defensive Roll and Slippery Mind don’t help mechanics that much, I would take Imp Evasion at 10, Crippling Strike at 13, and everything else goes to Skill Mastery, you can substitute one Mastery for Slippery Mind however, if you seem to have problems with enchantments (hold, command, etc.)

Trained Feats: As of update 5, the mechanic is a purely ranged build, and his feats should reflect that, I would advise Imp Precise Shot, if possible, as well as Rapid Reload, and Rapid Shot. Other useful feats are: Skill Focus: Disable Device/Search/Open Lock, and Nimble Fingers. The balance between DPS feats and skill feats is a personal preference and should be based on experience. Note that taking all of the DPS feats leaves room for one skill feat, two if you’re a Human. Note 2: My level 16 Mechanic with all the skill feats can Disable every trap in the game with ease. so taking all of them might be overkill.

Weapons and Combat: After the mechanic acquires the Mechanic I enhancement (rog level 6,) his favored weapon should shift to a crossbow, light repeater if he can get one. After Mechanic II (rog level 12,) he should try and pick up a few heavy repeaters. In combat, the mechanic should stay in the back and try and range enemies, he should stay close to the party however, as sneak attack only works if the mechanic is close enough to his target (approximate distance is about twice the length of a troll’s club.)


UMD tips: Rouge Skill Boost, affects UMD, giving up to +5 at the final tier. Items of Command give a +2 boost, note that this does not stack with the +1 from the runic gloves.

A Note on Defenders: I have found the Companion chain of enhancements (Iron Companion, Steel Companion, Mithril Companion, Adamantine Companion) to be quite useful for the mechanic, as it can provide a second target for monsters to attack, and a little more mele power. Be careful when to use it though, as some players do not take kindly to anything that spews grease.

Edit:

Ending it.

It has become quite clear from the replies to this post that I do not know this game or the rogue class as well as I thought I did, and have to come to understand that I was wrong in posting this guide. Please disregard this guide until I have had time to fix it.

I will however continue to play rouges that place trap skills over DPS for one simple reason: If the rouge was just a dps class, why is it not listed as a "Mele" class? Why do they get Disable Device? Why was the Mechanic line made in the first place? You don't expect the healer to dps, it's just not his job, so why the rogue? If you want to run a cry for help with some assassin dps god with 2 disable be my guest. I'll stick to the Mechanic.

[Dylvish]

Great post, thx for the info. I learned a few things I wasn't aware of too (intel= +damage in particular).

One thing I do disagree on however, is con. It is not useles, never ignore it. Every single class in the game gets aggro at some point or another, and at higher levels in particular, the room for error gets smaller. Even on mages and rogues, I strongly recommend a bare minimum of a 12 Con, and toughness as a feat.

I am currently going through the 12ish range with one of my alts, a new healer, and the amount of arcanes and rogues I run into with 70 health or less is frightening. They drop so fast when even one things aggroes on them I dont even have time to target them and cast a quickened CMW. THat one feat (toughness) opens up a whole enhancement line of health fun, even if you only take racial and class I and II, youve nearly doubled your health already. :)

[gigobyte]

Hmm, you have a good point there, it's been my experience that if anything short of a devil (they teleport) aggros me, i can usually get out of there in time, but there have been times when i look away at the wrong time and go down just like that.

The damage btw, is one of the new feature of Mechanic I, just thought i'd clarify that.

Couple of other notes I seem to have missed in the guide:

1st: Apparently there is a bug with repeaters that caused bolts to fire, but not hit anything, I have noticed this bug, and have found that the best way to deal with it is to use auto attack.

2nd: I've been thinking it over, and it seems that if you go max int, the skill feats are not necessary, otherwise you may want to pick up a skill focus or two (to keep the mechanic standard of being able to disable any trap you come across.)

Slightly more exact Numbers: 18 starting int + all stat boosts (4,8,12, and 16) going to int + mech I and II + 6 int item + 13 disable item + disable IV + Skill boost IV + +5 tools = 61 disable unbuffed at level 16, add in greater heroism, other buffs, maybe a pot, and a cabal for one on elite is nothing. This means that for the most part, skill feats are overkill

3rd: there is an excellent thread going for mechanics http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=266855, more about the DPS capabilities of the class though.

[Looonatic]

I'm mildly surprised you didn't include WF as a good choice of race. Self-repairing rocks at lvl 8, though I sense a diminishing return as I continue to level and the ability remains static. Hopefully Mechanic III will boost the repair construct ability.

[Torebro]

Race: As the build requires high DEX and INT, Drow is the obvious choice, for those without Drow, Halfling, Elf or Human would be the best choices. Halflings, due to their small size are sometimes able to tumble right under a trap without a save, they also get +4 to jump, which can help them clear a trap they can’t tumble under. Their +1 to saves also helps them save against the traps they can’t jump/tumble under. Elves get +2 to Listen, Search, and Spot. This can help in finding some of the harder traps. Humans get an extra feat and skill points, and the mechanic, as a skill based class needs all the skill points he or she can get. Human adaptability is also very useful for boosting INT and DEX. Drow starts off with higher INT than the other races, and gets +2 to Search, Spot, and Listen.

I wouldn't choose elf as a race, the bonus to listen and spot isn't really necessary and -2 Con really hurts. Dwarves and especially Warforged make also very good Mechanics, +2 Con is always nice and Self-Repair is very good in the beginning.




Stats: INT boosts the mechanic’s disable and search skills, and gives more skill points, it also increases the damage he or she can dish out with a crossbow (after level 6.) DEX boosts his dodging and sneaking abilities as well as improving open lock and boosting to-hit with a crossbow. CHA is used for diplomacy, bluff, and UMD, it’s really more of a dump stat for the mechanic though. WIS helps the mechanic’s spot checks, but it’s really just another dump stat. CON and STR are next to worthless for a mechanic, because str does nothing for crossbows, and Rogs avoid aggro whenever possible, so they don’t need as much hp as other classes.
Never EVER see con as a dump stat, low fort save and low con = dead if a disintegrate hits you and some traps on elite/epic dish out a massive amount of damage on a failed save (you can always roll a 1),even with Improved Evasion, so Con is a must have, Cha and Wis are dump stats, low Str isn't that bad, but I'd start with at least 10 Str.




Skills: Disable Device, Search and Open Lock are a must. Balance helps if you plan on taking the defender enhancements. Diplomacy is good for keeping aggro off. Bluff is not terribly useful for a mechanic, as it does not remove aggro on you. Haggle should only be taken if you have all the skills you need and still have points left. Hide and Move Silently are quite useful, but you need to take both, or neither. Jump is almost a must, it does help clearing traps, but most boxes are on the near side of the trap. I personally believe that Listen is a waste, as a mechanic you will have a rather high spot score anyway, and should be able to see anyone trying to sneak up on you. Repair is also a waste, Screed took it, but has never used it. Spot is very useful because it can give some warning of an upcoming trap or secret door, and allows you to see monsters that try and sneak up on you. Swim helps at lower levels, but becomes useless the moment you find an underwater action item. Tumble is useful because it allows you to roll right under certain traps (Halfling only), and helps you move faster through water. UMD lets you use powerful gear and healing wands at higher levels, this skill should be taken in most mechanic builds.

As a mechanic you should have enough Skill Points for every useful Skill in the game (my WF mechanic did start with 16 Int). I would only invest 1 point in tumble, that's all you need to unlock the ability and your Dex should take care of the rest, also Jump isn't that important, there's enough possibilities to push it further (Spell, Pot, +Jump Item, House P Buff), but it won't hurt that much. Order of Importance for me is:
Disable Device, Search, UMD, Balance, Spot, Open Lock, Diplomacy, rest




Class Feats: Defensive Roll and Slippery Mind don’t help mechanics that much, I would take Imp Evasion at 10, Crippling Strike at 13, and everything else goes to Skill Mastery, you can substitute one Mastery for Slippery Mind however, if you seem to have problems with enchantments (hold, command, etc.)
If crippling Strike works with X-Bows it is worth it, if not, then leave it, also we'll get some new feats with U7




Trained Feats: As of update 5, the mechanic is a purely ranged build, and his feats should reflect that, I would advise Imp Precise Shot, if possible, as well as Rapid Reload, and Rapid Shot. Other useful feats are: Skill Focus: Disable Device/Search/Open Lock, and Nimble Fingers. The balance between DPS feats and skill feats is a personal preference and should be based on experience. Note that taking all of the DPS feats leaves room for one skill feat, two if you’re a Human. Note 2: My level 16 Mechanic with all the skill feats can Disable every trap in the game with ease. so taking all of them might be overkill.

As a Mechanic you are starving on feats. You named some important ranged feats for a Mechanic, but in order to get Improved Precise Shot you need Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, so, if you want all of the above feats, you need Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Rapid Reload, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot. That's 5 feats (out of 7 for a non-human), then i wouldn't go without toughness on any of my characters and improved Crit is also more useful than the Skill feats, so human has 1 feat left the others none.




Weapons and Combat: After the mechanic acquires the Mechanic I enhancement (rog level 6,) his favored weapon should shift to a crossbow, light repeater if he can get one. After Mechanic II (rog level 12,) he should try and pick up a few heavy repeaters. In combat, the mechanic should stay in the back and try and range enemies, he should stay close to the party however, as sneak attack only works if the mechanic is close enough to his target (approximate distance is about twice the length of a troll’s club.)


The damage is pretty low compared to melee, especially when fighting 2-handed, even with all feats, so some people will consider using X-Bow as piking (I turned my X-Bow mechanic into a twf-mechanic, because I could kill some enemies (mephits) with sword+board faster than with a repeater light X-Bow (with rapid shot and rapid reload and a better X-Bow than melee-weapon)).




UMD tips: Rouge Skill Boost, affects UMD, giving up to +5 at the final tier. Items of Command give a +2 boost, note that this does not stack with the +1 from the runic gloves.

There's so much more to push UMD, search the Forum to see how to boost UMD.




A Note on Defenders: I have found the Companion chain of enhancements (Iron Companion, Steel Companion, Mithril Companion, Adamantine Companion) to be quite useful for the mechanic, as it can provide a second target for monsters to attack, and a little more mele power. Be careful when to use it though, as some players do not take kindly to anything that spews grease.

The companions are quite nice when soloing, but rather annoying when in a party, so I wouldn't use them with other players unless they don't mind.

Regards Torebro

____
(bb) || !(bb)

[Dopey_Power]

Small thing I'd like to point out. Starting off with dumped strength on a halfling can be especially...problematic. Rogues are an extremely heavy UMD class, and are expected to carry scrolls, wands, extra equipment for special situations, etc.

Having 6 strength will not make your carrying capacity very large, limiting how much you can keep and staying in a light load. If you happen to pull some heavy loot partway through a dungeon, you may find yourself into a medium load. If you accidentally get ray of enfeeblement'd, well... it's not going to be fun. I'd try to get strength up to ten at least.


My 2 cp.

[gigobyte]

I'm mildly surprised you didn't include WF as a good choice of race. Self-repairing rocks at lvl 8, though I sense a diminishing return as I continue to level and the ability remains static. Hopefully Mechanic III will boost the repair construct ability.

Hmm, I didn't actually know wf could self repair, always assumed that it was friend only. I may have to completely revise the guide.

[JustWinBaby]

Note: It has been my experience that many parties don’t care about a rog’s combat ability, as long as he or she can get them past the traps.

This is extremely incorrect.

Not sure what level you have gotten up to....but anything 8+....Rogue's DPS matters a TON.

Rogues are DPS first, traps 2nd. Assassin, Mechanic, Acrobat, whatever....the focus should always be DPS first. 90% of the game is fighting and the other 10% is traps.

I'm not saying Mechanics suck (although I do prefer Assassins), I am saying that you should not, by any means, forget about the primary role of a Rogue, which is to kill things.


CON and STR are next to worthless for a mechanic, because str does nothing for crossbows, and Rogs avoid aggro whenever possible, so they don’t need as much hp as other classes.

NOOOOOOOO. Con is NEVER a dump stat. Never ever ever. a 12 Con is a minimum, on ANY character. The reason Rogues try to avoid aggro is because of their lower HP than all the other melee classes and because no aggro = Sneak Attack.


UMD should be taken in most builds.

Fixed that for you.

Sorry if I come off as rude.....but this "Guide" needs some fixing.

[gigobyte]

Small thing I'd like to point out. Starting off with dumped strength on a halfling can be especially...problematic. Rogues are an extremely heavy UMD class, and are expected to carry scrolls, wands, extra equipment for special situations, etc.

Having 6 strength will not make your carrying capacity very large, limiting how much you can keep and staying in a light load. If you happen to pull some heavy loot partway through a dungeon, you may find yourself into a medium load. If you accidentally get ray of enfeeblement'd, well... it's not going to be fun. I'd try to get strength up to ten at least.


My 2 cp.


I see what you mean there, but my mechanic was able to do his job just fine with a couple of robes, 6 quivers, and some clickys, throw in a few wands and scrolls, and the equips. Still doesn't add up to a lot of weight. Helps to have some ogre power bracers or similar though. Enfeeble does suck however, no way around that.

[gigobyte]

This is extremely incorrect.

Not sure what level you have gotten up to....but anything 8+....Rogue's DPS matters a TON.

Rogues are DPS first, traps 2nd. Assassin, Mechanic, Acrobat, whatever....the focus should always be DPS first. 90% of the game is fighting and the other 10% is traps.

I'm not saying Mechanics suck (although I do prefer Assassins), I am saying that you should not, by any means, forget about the primary role of a Rogue, which is to kill things.

for the record, screed's level 16, pure rog, and it has been my experience that most people get rogs to deal with traps, dps comes second. Also, sneak attack damage is based on rog level, so as long as you can keep aggro off, a rog can dps fairly well regardless of strength.

[JustWinBaby]

Also, sneak attack damage is based on rog level, so as long as you can keep aggro off, a rog can dps fairly well regardless of strength.

I agree with this. Most of the Rogue's damage comes from SA. But DPS should be more important than traps was my point.

[Dylvish]

I wouldn't choose elf as a race, the bonus to listen and spot isn't really necessary and -2 Con really hurts. Dwarves and especially Warforged make also very good Mechanics, +2 Con is always nice and Self-Repair is very good in the beginning.
I don't really agree. Rogues, in particular mechanics rarely take more than 12 con anyway, which is easy to get even on an elf. Dwarves and WF can make very high con toons, so their cheap stats are semi-wasted on a ranged spec. Being able to repair yourself is nice, but it is only useful at low levels, being outgrown rapidly. Both of them make exellent rogues to me, but Acrobat or Assassin, not as much mechanic (different synergies). Elves and halflings get dex bonuses, and start with higher dex (and intel on Drow), and their other racials fit in rather well.



Never EVER see con as a dump stat, low fort save and low con = dead if a disintegrate hits you and some traps on elite/epic dish out a massive amount of damage on a failed save (you can always roll a 1),even with Improved Evasion, so Con is a must have, Cha and Wis are dump stats, low Str isn't that bad, but I'd start with at least 10 Str.
/agree whole heartedly



As a mechanic you should have enough Skill Points for every useful Skill in the game (my WF mechanic did start with 16 Int). I would only invest 1 point in tumble, that's all you need to unlock the ability and your Dex should take care of the rest, also Jump isn't that important, there's enough possibilities to push it further (Spell, Pot, +Jump Item, House P Buff), but it won't hurt that much. Order of Importance for me is:
Disable Device, Search, UMD, Balance, Spot, Open Lock, Diplomacy, rest
/agree (rest = ? ) although I would also have tumble and jump in there if the skill points allowed at the end.



If crippling Strike works with X-Bows it is worth it, if not, then leave it, also we'll get some new feats with U7
/agree



As a Mechanic you are starving on feats. You named some important ranged feats for a Mechanic, but in order to get Improved Precise Shot you need Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, so, if you want all of the above feats, you need Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Rapid Reload, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot. That's 5 feats (out of 7 for a non-human), then i wouldn't go without toughness on any of my characters and improved Crit is also more useful than the Skill feats, so human has 1 feat left the others none.
/agree. The idea behind mechanic for the most part is that you should not need any feats for skills, you get most of your bonuses from stats / pre bonus and enhancement reqs.




The damage is pretty low compared to melee, especially when fighting 2-handed, even with all feats, so some people will consider using X-Bow as piking (I turned my X-Bow mechanic into a twf-mechanic, because I could kill some enemies (mephits) with sword+board faster than with a repeater light X-Bow (with rapid shot and rapid reload and a better X-Bow than melee-weapon)).
I do not agree here. vs dual wield you are right, repeaters will never compare. But if you are using sword n board, you were doing something wrong if you did more damage than with a repeater (or were you just using a regular xbow?). I do normally either go s&b till 6, or pick up heavy repeater feat till im about to hit 12 though, then switch it out.
-Keep in mind, in order to get SA damage, you need to be within about 15' or so of the mob with repeaters. Its also a bit harder to accuse someone of piking if they are that close and shooting away. :)




There's so much more to push UMD, search the Forum to see how to boost UMD.
/agree. Even easy to aquire items (avoiding endgame and / or raid stuff), there are a lot.




The companions are quite nice when soloing, but rather annoying when in a party, so I wouldn't use them with other players unless they don't mind.
/amen! Melee will absolutely hate you if you have out the dogs most of the time. Mechanics have enough bias against them as it is, lets not make it worse. :p

[gigobyte]

I wouldn't choose elf as a race, the bonus to listen and spot isn't really necessary and -2 Con really hurts. Dwarves and especially Warforged make also very good Mechanics, +2 Con is always nice and Self-Repair is very good in the beginning.


Never EVER see con as a dump stat, low fort save and low con = dead if a disintegrate hits you and some traps on elite/epic dish out a massive amount of damage on a failed save (you can always roll a 1),even with Improved Evasion, so Con is a must have, Cha and Wis are dump stats, low Str isn't that bad, but I'd start with at least 10 Str.


As a mechanic you should have enough Skill Points for every useful Skill in the game (my WF mechanic did start with 16 Int). I would only invest 1 point in tumble, that's all you need to unlock the ability and your Dex should take care of the rest, also Jump isn't that important, there's enough possibilities to push it further (Spell, Pot, +Jump Item, House P Buff), but it won't hurt that much. Order of Importance for me is:
Disable Device, Search, UMD, Balance, Spot, Open Lock, Diplomacy, rest


If crippling Strike works with X-Bows it is worth it, if not, then leave it, also we'll get some new feats with U7



As a Mechanic you are starving on feats. You named some important ranged feats for a Mechanic, but in order to get Improved Precise Shot you need Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, so, if you want all of the above feats, you need Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Rapid Reload, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot. That's 5 feats (out of 7 for a non-human), then i wouldn't go without toughness on any of my characters and improved Crit is also more useful than the Skill feats, so human has 1 feat left the others none.



The damage is pretty low compared to melee, especially when fighting 2-handed, even with all feats, so some people will consider using X-Bow as piking (I turned my X-Bow mechanic into a twf-mechanic, because I could kill some enemies (mephits) with sword+board faster than with a repeater light X-Bow (with rapid shot and rapid reload and a better X-Bow than melee-weapon)).



There's so much more to push UMD, search the Forum to see how to boost UMD.



The companions are quite nice when soloing, but rather annoying when in a party, so I wouldn't use them with other players unless they don't mind.

Regards Torebro

____
(bb) || !(bb)


Okay, I retract my statement about con being a dump stat, I suppose I've just gotten used to playing low con toons.

Crippling strike does work with x-bows. The new feat from u7 only applies to mele attacks.

[Looonatic]

Hmm, I didn't actually know wf could self repair, always assumed that it was friend only. I may have to completely revise the guide.

I can confirm with absolute certainty that a wf rogue mechanic can self-repair. :)

[Failedlegend]

Note: It has been my experience that many parties don’t care about a rogue’s combat ability, as long as he or she can get them past the traps. Also, as of update 5, the mechanic has become more of a ranged class.

While this is true you should note that mechanic rogues have a bad rep and are sometimes rejected from groups...although you usually don't want to be in a group like that anyway.



Race: As the build requires high DEX and INT, Drow is the obvious choice, for those without Drow, Halfling, Elf or Human would be the best choices. Halflings, due to their small size are sometimes able to tumble right under a trap without a save, they also get +4 to jump, which can help them clear a trap they can’t tumble under. Their +1 to saves also helps them save against the traps they can’t jump/tumble past. Elves get +2 to Listen, Search, and Spot. This can help in finding some of the harder traps. Humans get an extra feat and skill points, and the mechanic, as a skill based class needs all the skill points he or she can get. Human adaptability is also very useful for boosting INT and DEX. Drow starts off with higher INT than the other races, and gets +2 to Search, Spot, and Listen.

I'm going to have to disagree on the point of Drow being a good choice a 32pt halfling can get 18Dex 14Con 18Int while a Drow only ends up with 18 13 18 to even get int or dex to 20 they have to lower COn to 8 which is unacceptable until there's a way to use another stat for hp. Also If built right the Bonuses of WF are quite potent and the New Half-Elf race with their ability to use Diplo twice in a row could be quite potent as well as their innate ability to give a pure rogue some pseudo multi-class abilities...so i'd say in most cases Halfling and with specific builds WF or Half-Elf than if you need the extra feat Human.



Stats: INT boosts the mechanic’s disable and search skills, and gives more skill points, it also increases the damage he or she can dish out with a crossbow (after level 6.) DEX boosts his dodging and sneaking abilities as well as improving open lock and boosting to-hit with a crossbow. CHA is used for diplomacy, bluff, and UMD, it’s really more of a dump stat for the mechanic though. WIS helps the mechanic’s spot checks, but it’s really just another dump stat. STR is next to worthless for a mechanic, it does help crossbow dps in any way, at lower levels there are issues with hobgoblin mages that cast ray of enfeeblement, so perhaps have 7-9 str and pick up a +1 item at the beginning. CON, while not as important to the mechanic as other rouge builds, is still quite I would recommend having a bare minimum of 10 con. Preferably a bit higher.

Int and Dex are your main stats while Con should be a minimum of 12 (14 if WF or Dwarf) Str, Cha and Wis can all be dumped unless their needed for a Multi-class especially as a mechanic you won't need the extra few skill points from mods. Mind you on a Halfling you may want to raise Strength a bit due 3/4 Carrying Capacity



Class Feats: Defensive Roll and Slippery Mind don’t help mechanics that much, I would take Imp Evasion at 10, Crippling Strike at 13, and everything else goes to Skill Mastery, you can substitute one Mastery for Slippery Mind however, if you seem to have problems with enchantments (hold, command, etc.)


Agreed...although there is a new feat being released soon that reduces enemy fortication and increases double strike chance although IIRC it's restircted to being taken only once so you might want to add that. Also note that if the stat spread has decent wisdom (ie.multiclassed with monk or something) slippery mind can be quite potent.



Trained Feats: As of update 5, the mechanic is a purely ranged build, and his feats should reflect that, I would advise Imp Precise Shot, if possible, as well as Rapid Reload, and Rapid Shot. Other useful feats are: Skill Focus: Disable Device/Search/Open Lock, and Nimble Fingers. The balance between DPS feats and skill feats is a personal preference and should be based on experience. Note that taking all of the DPS feats leaves room for one skill feat, two if you’re a Human. Note 2: My level 16 Mechanic with all the skill feats can Disable every trap in the game with ease. so taking all of them might be overkill.


Mostly correct but I'd advise against taking a Skill focus other than SF:UMD cause otherwise it's a waste of a feat and even still I'd rather take Toughness and for a Rogue/Fighter, Rogue/Monk,etc. multi-class you might want to consider taking dodge Mobility and Shot on the run with the extra feats since it will remove the penalty for moving and shooting which you will be doing alot (too bad the pre-reqs are useless unless you AC focused).





Weapons and Combat: After the mechanic acquires the Mechanic I enhancement (rog level 6,) his favored weapon should shift to a crossbow, light repeater if he can get one. After Mechanic II (rog level 12,) he should try and pick up a few heavy repeaters. In combat, the mechanic should stay in the back and try and range enemies, he should stay close to the party however, as sneak attack only works if the mechanic is close enough to his target (approximate distance is about twice the length of a troll’s club.)


One tactic is to take the heavy repeater exotic feat until level 12 than swap it out for one of the feats you actually want just before taking mech 2.

Another way to gauge SA distance is the distance of any mass spell...it's supposed to be 30ft but it's probably more like 10ish....still waiting for a Dev response on when they plan to fix this. Also you should add that the rouge should always allow the tank (or least squishiest toon) to enter combat first than attack soon after so he gets aggro thereby allowing you to use your Sneak Attack..lastly always try to be in flanking position.

[issiana]

for the record, screed's level 16, pure rog, and it has been my experience that most people get rogs to deal with traps, dps comes second. Also, sneak attack damage is based on rog level, so as long as you can keep aggro off, a rog can dps fairly well regardless of strength.

unless your fighting undead, constructs, ellemtals, anything with DR..etc....
in those cases if your str isn up tehre your not breaking DR and therefore your not doing any DPS and are totally worthless in any group.


I agree with this. Most of the Rogue's damage comes from SA. But DPS should be more important than traps was my point.

^^ This. DPS is a must as is hitpoints then traps. no hitpoints and you die in trap so are worthless, improved evasion means jack on a roll of 1.. it happens.
no str = no breaking DR = no dps.

work DPS first, hitpoints second and traps third. do that and you'l lestablish a solid rep as a good rogue.

[Failedlegend]

unless your fighting undead, constructs, ellemtals, anything with DR..etc....
in those cases if your str isn up tehre your not breaking DR and therefore your not doing any DPS and are totally worthless in any group.



^^ This. DPS is a must as is hitpoints then traps. no hitpoints and you die in trap so are worthless, improved evasion means jack on a roll of 1.. it happens.
no str = no breaking DR = no dps.

work DPS first, hitpoints second and traps third. do that and you'l lestablish a solid rep as a good rogue.

While rogues in general do need Str and cant rely fully on SA (i made this mistake a while back on my first toon) in the case of a mechanic rogue using repeaters Str actually does nothing beyond carrying capacity as their attack stat is Int.

[Dylvish]

I'm going to have to disagree on the point of Drow being a good choice a 32pt halfling can get 18Dex 14Con 18Int while a Drow only ends up with 18 13 18 to even get int or dex to 20 they have to lower COn to 8 which is unacceptable until there's a way to use another stat for hp. Also If built right the Bonuses of WF are quite potent and the New Half-Elf race with their ability to use Diplo twice in a row could be quite potent as well as their innate ability to give a pure rogue some pseudo multi-class abilities...so i'd say in most cases Halfling and with specific builds WF or Half-Elf than if you need the extra feat Human.

You paint a bad picture for drow while making the 1/2ling look like sunshine here, which is misleading.
In order to get your 18Dex, 14Con 18Int on your 1/2ling, you have a 6 str, 8wis, 8cha. That 6 str is unnacceptable for a rogue, in particular a repeater rogue (those heavy repeaters weigh a lot, and you will be carrying a few of them, not to mention quivers full of bolts, and umd items). So chances are, you will be lowering 1 or 2 of the stats to buy yourself 2 or 4 pts of str (I always go with 10 min myself). A more realistic build will be 9/18/14/17/8/8
Drow normal build will be (for me anyway) 10/18/12/18/8/10, which puts them at +1 str / int / cha, and -2 con (which you said in the same post most should have at 12, except for WF and Dwarf), Where you are getting that they 'lower their con to 8' from im not sure. There is no reason to start any stat on any class with a 20, unless maybe your trying to go wizard or sorc.
Drow are a good choice for a range based skill rogue. The bonuses for WF are still not nearly as good for a Mechanic as they are for the Assassin or Acrobat. I agree whole heartedly with the Half Elves, and cant wait to see what they bring to the table.

[gigobyte]

unless your fighting undead, constructs, ellemtals, anything with DR..etc....
in those cases if your str isn up tehre your not breaking DR and therefore your not doing any DPS and are totally worthless in any group.



^^ This. DPS is a must as is hitpoints then traps. no hitpoints and you die in trap so are worthless, improved evasion means jack on a roll of 1.. it happens.
no str = no breaking DR = no dps.

work DPS first, hitpoints second and traps third. do that and you'l lestablish a solid rep as a good rogue.

Note that improved evasion halves damage on a failed save, this can drop the damage on a roll of 1 from 200, which is not survivable for most rogs, to 100 which is.

[bandyman1]

Note that improved evasion halves damage on a failed save, this can drop the damage on a roll of 1 from 200, which is not survivable for most rogs, to 100 which is.

LMAO!!!!! WHAT???!!!???

Dude....what kinda rogues are you playing???? :D

No wonder you think you don't need Con, lol.

[JustWinBaby]

Note that improved evasion halves damage on a failed save, this can drop the damage on a roll of 1 from 200, which is not survivable for most rogs, to 100 which is.


200 points of damage isn't survivable? And you're level 16????

Something is VERY wrong here...

[gigobyte]

LMAO!!!!! WHAT???!!!???

Dude....what kinda rogues are you playing???? :D

No wonder you think you don't need Con, lol.

Clarification: my rog has about 130 hp, therefore, if he took 200 points of damage, he's gone. In some cases however, he can take 100 and live. That particular build has 8 base con with a +4 item = 12 con

[bandyman1]

My advice to the OP:

Take a look at this (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2675839&postcount=32), and realize that those sub 200ish HP rogues you're advocating as the " norm " here, are the exact same rogues you see people *****ing about on the forums, and the root cause of the constant posts you see from people about how their rogues were denied from LFMs.

There's absolutely NO reason for a rogue of any race or build to be 20th level with sub 350ish HPs. And 400 is actually a much, much better benchmark.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to get by with less....I'm saying that you've intentionally gimped your toon by doing so.

[JustWinBaby]

Clarification: my rog has about 130 hp, therefore, if he took 200 points of damage, he's gone. In some cases however, he can take 100 and live. That particular build has 8 base con with a +4 item = 12 con

WHAT????????????????????? Level 16 and 130 HP????????????????

Ok....I'm finished here....

[bandyman1]

Clarification: my rog has about 130 hp, therefore, if he took 200 points of damage, he's gone. In some cases however, he can take 100 and live. That particular build has 8 base con with a +4 item = 12 con

K.

I'm really not trying to be elitest here, so please take this with a grain of salt;

It's wonderful that you're trying to give advice to newer players, and give them the benefit of your experience, but;

You seriously need to play more before doing so, because to be frank, your posts are showing that you don't really qualify to be advising newer players on effective builds at this point.

[Llewndyn]

I see posts all the time lamenting if you do not have 400 hp as a rogue you are a noob or a loser. I don't ascribe to that, but my rogue has 341 hp and I STILL get declined.... I think rogues should have a responsibility to at least live through the random 1 roll on traps, and with 130 HP I doubt you could do that.

On the other hand, I REFUSE to dedicate 80% of my inventory slots to HP boosting items just to appeal to PUG groups.

So, in short, if I ever saw a rogue past level 10 with 130 HP yes I would immediately boot him; something terrible is a-brewing there.

[Llewndyn]

Rogues are ALWAYS picked based on:
1. DPS
2. DPS
...
75. traps and lockpicking

I don't like to admit it but in today's DDO (yes I know I have only been here a year, shaddup) any class that splashes in rogue can do what a pure can as far as locks and traps; I have learned the hard way that rogues biggest strength is the fact that if done right they do more DPS than any melee class could ever aspire to.

Tell you what, just as a test roll up an str based assassin rogue. take 12 INT, 15 Dex, maybe 10 or 12 cha and put the rest into STR and CON (CON NEEDS to be at LEAST 14). take the assassin Pre. get to 12. Assassinate something. Delete mechanic rogue. Fun times complete.

[Shyver]

And here I thought the mechanic guide was this thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=266855

OP, I would suggest taking a read through that thread and soaking it in. You're on the right path, but have a lot to learn yet about the game, especialy the end game and hit points.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Clarification: my rog has about 130 hp, therefore, if he took 200 points of damage, he's gone. In some cases however, he can take 100 and live. That particular build has 8 base con with a +4 item = 12 con

At L16? How embarrassing for you to only have 130. Did you work to get it that low?

[Shyver]

At L16? How embarrassing for you to only have 130. Did you work to get it that low?

I think he said his con was 8 base +4 item = 12 total, so I'm thinking:

Base: 96
H. Durability: 20
Con: 16
Total: 132

[Torebro]

I do not agree here. vs dual wield you are right, repeaters will never compare. But if you are using sword n board, you were doing something wrong if you did more damage than with a repeater (or were you just using a regular xbow?). I do normally either go s&b till 6, or pick up heavy repeater feat till im about to hit 12 though, then switch it out.
-Keep in mind, in order to get SA damage, you need to be within about 15' or so of the mob with repeaters. Its also a bit harder to accuse someone of piking if they are that close and shooting away. :)

Well I was soling (so no SA) the Caverns of Korromar and my Acid Light Repeater of PG, didn't do as much damage as my Holy Short Sword of PG against the greater Mephit at the beginning http://forums.ddo.com/images/icons/icon11.gif.

So it was probably more a thing about Prefix and Suffix than about repeater vs. S&B. Still it did suck to have 3 Feats for repeater, Mechanic 1, 18 int and 10 Str and still S&B was equal to Repeater.

Regards Torebro

____
(bb) ||!(bb)

[JustWinBaby]

Why would a Rogue choose S&B over TWF? Just out of curiosity. I don't see any benefit from it.

[Looonatic]

My level 8 rogue has 122 hp. I wish I had more. :/

[CSFurious]

OP you can ask a forum mod to close the thread to save you from further embarrassment

you are always going to commit a mistake, the key is to learn from them

[issiana]

While rogues in general do need Str and cant rely fully on SA (i made this mistake a while back on my first toon) in the case of a mechanic rogue using repeaters Str actually does nothing beyond carrying capacity as their attack stat is Int.

This ^^


Note that improved evasion halves damage on a failed save, this can drop the damage on a roll of 1 from 200, which is not survivable for most rogs, to 100 which is.

And This ^^


Clarification: my rog has about 130 hp, therefore, if he took 200 points of damage, he's gone. In some cases however, he can take 100 and live. That particular build has 8 base con with a +4 item = 12 con

And This ^^


WHAT????????????????????? Level 16 and 130 HP????????????????

Ok....I'm finished here....

= agree with this ^^

seriously you guys... you wonder WHY rogues are called, gimp's and EXCLUDED from nearly ALL GROUPING/RAIDS. take a serious look at what you are saying vs what those who play high end are saying.

Unless you LISTEN and ACTION the advise about, hitpoints, DPS, and stats rogues will continue to be EXCLUDED.

DDO is a great game for building characters, but if you make bad builds you get blacklisted. servers at higher lvls are a lot less forgiving than low lvl's dont make the mistakes we are trying to tell you not to make.

please, for your own fun factor (its not fun being dead and LEFT dead as the cleric WONT raise a rogue who dies 5 times in a row), and the survivability of the rogue class in general - LISTEN!

and fyi, while clericing a DQ raid i left a rogue dead for the whole DQ raid after rasiing him 5 times and watching him die in 1 hit each time afterwards. improved evasion is usless without hitpoints to back it up. said rogue is now on "the list" not just from me, but from the others in the group.

dont make the same mistake.

[Failedlegend]

Originally Posted by Failedlegend

While rogues in general do need Str and cant rely fully on SA (i made this mistake a while back on my first toon) in the case of a mechanic rogue using repeaters Str actually does nothing beyond carrying capacity as their attack stat is Int.



Originally Posted by Issiana

This ^^ = seriously you guys... you wonder WHY rogues are called, gimp's and EXCLUDED from nearly ALL GROUPING/RAIDS. take a serious look at what you are saying vs what those who play high end are saying.

@Issinia Care to explain whats incorrect/causes gimpness about my statement

[bandyman1]

@Issinia Care to explain whats incorrect/causes gimpness about my statement

I can.

If your rogue relies on repeaters 100% for his DPS contribution, then you've gimped yourself from the get-go.

No further discussion of sneak attacks, Str, Con, ect needs to be added.

[bandyman1]

I see posts all the time lamenting if you do not have 400 hp as a rogue you are a noob or a loser. I don't ascribe to that, but my rogue has 341 hp and I STILL get declined.... I think rogues should have a responsibility to at least live through the random 1 roll on traps, and with 130 HP I doubt you could do that.

On the other hand, I REFUSE to dedicate 80% of my inventory slots to HP boosting items just to appeal to PUG groups.

So, in short, if I ever saw a rogue past level 10 with 130 HP yes I would immediately boot him; something terrible is a-brewing there.

1 slot for a +45 HP item, which most often doubles as a displacement/haste clickie, a summon clickie/earthgrab guard, or a +5 protection/heavy fort item.

1 slot for a GFL item, that is often rolled into a +6 Con item with ToD PRE bonuses, a rune on dragontouched gear with other bonuses, or an augment slot on an epic item.

1 slot for a +6 Con item, which has multiple options for doubling, tripling, or even quadrupling effects.

1 slot for Minos ( which I'll agree is optional ) which also doubles as a heavy fort item.

Even if they weren't combination items, I'm really failing to see how 3-4 out of 10 ( Helm, Neck, Wrist, Hands, Feet, Belt, Cloak, Trinket, Ring A, Ring B ) item slots = 80% of available inventory slots.

Might want to check your math before spouting off about something you obviously have absolutely no clue about.

[Rameses]

Can I just say that I agree with Bandyman. Con is NEVAH a dump stat. PERIOD.

I am, Rameses!

[issiana]

I can.

If your rogue relies on repeaters 100% for his DPS contribution, then you've gimped yourself from the get-go.

No further discussion of sneak attacks, Str, Con, ect needs to be added.

thanks, though i do get a horrid feeling everything thats being said is falling on deaf ears :(


Can I just say that I agree with Bandyman. Con is NEVAH a dump stat. PERIOD.

I am, Rameses!

This ^^ it should be a manditory screen tip and on every new character made, con should have a MINIMUM slider setting of 12. (even that is getting low imo)

Glad you could swing by Rameses. hope all is well :)

[trespasser]

I was not going to write in this topic, because I don't really care for mechanics, but:


No new player should be getting any advice from someone who has no idea how to play the rogue class.
130 hp is extremely low to the point of the character being unplayable - ranged or not.
Having a character like that makes you the definition of the word newbie - someone who should be reading guides, not writing them

Edit:


Note: It has been my experience that many parties don’t care about a rog’s combat ability, as long as he or she can get them past the traps.
That is simply wrong. Very very wrong.

[Rameses]

Glad you could swing by Rameses. hope all is well :)

All is well thanks to my HIGH Con :eek:

ok it's easier to joke about now...

I am, Rameses!

[Failedlegend]

This ^^ it should be a mandatory screen tip and on every new character made, Con should have a MINIMUM slider setting of 12.


That I agree with 100%...Devs please make this happen....or release Auspicious birth (changes HP stat to your highest stat)...make it selectable in the dilletante feat list lol Half-Elfs would sell like hotcakes

[pharky]

After reading through 50% of your guide, I could not bare to read on any further.

First of all, I would like to commend on your effort to put together information for other players. However I feel that you are still far too inexperienced to be writing a guide.

As many people have mentioned, con should not be less than 12. In my opinion, con can be dumped ONLY if you are very experienced and do not plan to play any end game raiding content or epics. Most of the time, raid bosses deal aoe damage across the board and it would be easier for the healers to mass heal. If you have significantly less HP, it means one of the healers have to be your nanny, therefore you become a burden. Take epic VoN/DQ for instance, there is barely anyway to reduce to the aoe damage you receive. With 200/300 HP endgame, you would probably be 1shotted. Also for raids like Shroud, ToD and VoD, you would want to be in range for BS damage to maximise DPS output. This means you will get hit by the raid bosses aoe attacks as well, unless there is a dedicated intimi tank.

I also strongly disagree with taking Skill focus DD/OL for feats. Rogue is a feat starved class. Not only are rogues seen as utility for traps and locks, they are also viewed as DPS. Not to mention all mechanics would have at least 14 (+6) int, with the PrE of mechanic should have no issue to traps at all, even at end game (including epics). Hence spending a feat on DD/OL would be overkill and a waste.

Tumble is a useful skill for all classes/races. I have no idea why you put it for halfling only. All rogues should have at least 1 point in tumble so as to use it in emergencies. Since repeater builds are dex/int based, the user might want to max out tumble and get equipment with tumble (e.g. tumbleweed) so as to get the modified tumble graphics. However, this is up to the user's preference.

I only listed some of the things that I felt strongly about. I am not trying to belittle or attempting to flame you, but I have the feeling that you have yet to experienced the end game content, which is why you have your current perception of how your mechanic rogue should be played. In all of the end game raids, rogues are almost never needed for their utility abilities. Unlocking is needed in Part3 Shroud but most of the time wizzies carry knock spell. Trapping is also required in VoD but can be handled by people with just 1 or 2 levels of rogue multiclass, which is very popular. People also seldom run VoN5 on epic because of the length. Therefore, the thing that differentiates a pure rogue and a multiclass rogue would ultimately be DPS and versatility. The ability to inflict high damage, not steal aggro and high reflex save.

Sincerely hope that one day, you can reach this point and write a beneficial guide for all the aspiring mechanic repeater rogues.

P.S.
1. Rogue is spelled as ROGUE, not ROUGE.
2. Devs have heard our feedback and made the new feat work PARTIALLY for ranged (the -fort effect). I have no idea if any more changes will made but even with only the -fort effect, this feat will be better than crippling strike in my opinion.

[CrescentCalling_5]

here's the build I came up with after reading your guide, though I took a few liberties on some of your ideas.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
(20 Rogue)
Hit Points: 160
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 22
Will: 6

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 10 10 10
Dexterity 18 23 28
Constitution 12 12 12
Intelligence 18 18 18
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 10 10 10

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 8 32 34
Bluff 0 0 2
Concentration 1 1 3
Diplomacy 4 23 25
Disable Device 8 27 36
Haggle 0 23 25
Heal 1 8 10
Hide 8 32 34
Intimidate 0 0 2
Jump 4 23 25
Listen -1 -1 3
Move Silently 8 32 34
Open Lock 8 32 41
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 4 4 10
Search 8 27 35
Spot 3 22 30
Swim 0 0 2
Tumble 8 14 16
Use Magic Device 4 23 25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Cheat Death
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance I
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance II
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance III
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance IV
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Adamantine Companion
Enhancement: Iron Companion
Enhancement: Mithral Companion
Enhancement: Steel Companion
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking IV
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device III
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock III
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II

[Consumer]

here's the build I came up with after reading your guide, though I took a few liberties on some of your ideas.

12 con and no toughness - gimp

If you play it like a pro it will be ok though.

[JustWinBaby]

12 con and no toughness - gimp

Maybe not gimp - but certainly FAR from l33t. :)

OK I lied...maybe it is gimp...

[issiana]

here's the build I came up with after reading your guide, though I took a few liberties on some of your ideas.




12 con and no toughness - gimp

If you play it like a pro it will be ok though.


Maybe not gimp - but certainly FAR from l33t. :)

OK I lied...maybe it is gimp...

you both missed the part of 18 int on a mechanic rogue! = gimp just there.

ok if your building it just for the cabal trap on elite at lvl, then i could accept the build's purpose - but anyone whos played the game long enough will know thats gimp'd right there as thats 0.000000001% of the game, the other 99.99999999% of the game your not much use at all.

then theres the low wisdom... gonna make spotting the traps hard (unless as mentioned your a pro and know where they are already...

maybe if your assassin build the int will help your assassinates, but not really as you have the issue of low str so no dps if that fails.

[khaldan]

you both missed the part of 18 int on a mechanic rogue! = gimp just there.



int=damage, so a high int makes sense.

Now, luck of heroes, and no haste boost makes it not that great though.

[issiana]

int=damage, so a high int makes sense.

Now, luck of heroes, and no haste boost makes it not that great though.

no, it dosent make sense.

18 int = +1 to damage over a 16 int

16 int would be able to rasie the con to 14, have +1 fort save, 20 extra hitpoints and be better off for it, as 16 int is still WAY more than you need to do traps with.

add in tougness and you open up racial hitpoints as well. so lets look again..

+1 damage or

+1 fort save AND 62 hitpoints. (20 from extra con, 20 from racial and 22 from toughness)

On a d6 melee class whose job is to dps and stand in traps you need all the hitpoints you can get. oh and in case your thinking your just ranged and wont need them.. think again. you use a repeater and you WILL pull aggro and be left to deal with it, no tank likes chasing down a kiting ranged player.
you pull it you kill it.
if you die a lot due to low hitpoints, dont expect to get many invites into groups, or have ppl join your groups.

As has being said time and time again - Rogues rely upon server reputation. get a bad rep and you may as well reroll. So do everything you can to listen to whats being said to avoid getting that sort of rep.

[Failedlegend]

int=damage, so a high int makes sense.

Now, luck of heroes, and no haste boost makes it not that great though.

LoH is waste of a feat for anyone but unless you really can't find anything better....agreed haste boost is useful (although I can't remeber if they fixed haste boost for repeaters in U7) and also agreed that you should crank Int as high as possible


no, it doesn't make sense.

18 int = +1 to damage over a 16 int



16 int would be able to raise the con to 14, have +1 fort save, 20 extra hitpoints and be better off for it, as 16 int is still WAY more than you need to do traps with.


No because it's a Drow...if your only gonna put 16 points into Int there's even less reason to go Drow (Although I still say there's very few builds that work as good as a 32pt) you should never have less than 12 COn nor should you spend more than 1 point per Con which for Drow is 12...but I'd personally start with 18 Dex so you can qualify for Improved precise Shot without a +3 Tome and you can put all 5 lvl boosts into Int.



+1 damage or

+1 fort save & 20 HP


Fixed that comparison....as toughness has nothing to do with what you Con or Int is at.....but yes fit in toughness...even on the crampedness of a rogue feat wise it will fit

1 Rapid Reload
2 Rapid Shot
3 IC: Ranged
4 Precise Shot
5 Improved Precise Shot
6 Point Blank Shot
7 Toughness



On a d6 melee class whose job is to dps and stand in traps you need all the hitpoints you can get. oh and in case your thinking your just ranged and wont need them.. think again. you use a repeater and you WILL pull aggro and be left to deal with it, no tank likes chasing down a kiting ranged player.
you pull it you kill it.

if you die a lot due to low hitpoints, don't expect to get many invites into groups, or have ppl join your groups.

12 Con on a race with -2 Con is a good number if 20 HP really makes that much off a difference your playing wrong.



As has being said time and time again - Rogues rely upon server reputation. get a bad rep and you may as well reroll. So do everything you can to listen to whats being said to avoid getting that sort of rep.

Yes Rogues in general have a bad rep but so do Clerics, Monks, Rangers, FvS, and Barbarians really the only to I don't hear complaints about are Fighters and Bards...although Rogues and Clerics probably tie for the most complaints its mostly about...for rogues at least...the ones with 0% Fort, 120 HP, No status immunties (PaP for example) not the people with 420hp instead of 440....oh and if their Drow :P (sorry the 28pt limit and limited AP line really hurts them)


then there's the low wisdom... gonna make spotting the traps hard (unless as mentioned your a pro and know where they are already...


Ummmm....you can completely dump Wis and have little trouble spotting things...the only reason I'd put anything into Wis is if you take a level of Monk ie. 13Rogue/6???/1Monk like this one (Mind you I would prefer 18 Dex but I liked this stat spread better)



Human 13Rogue/6Fighter/1Monk

Str 8+2(Fighter)+2(Tome)/+6(Item) = 16(with Item)/14(if a +4 tome is found will ditch Str item)
Dex 16+6(Item)+3(Tome)+3(Excep)+2(Rogue) = 30
Con 14+6(Item)+2(Tome) = 22
Int 15+1(Human)+6(Item)+2/4(Tome)+5(Lvls)+3(Excep)+2(Wiz) = 34/36
Wis 15+1(Human)+6(Item)+2/4(Tome) = 24/26
Cha 8

No Particular Order

R Imp Evasion
R Slippery Mind
1 Rapid Reload
2 Rapid Shot
3 SF:UMD
4 Precise Shot
5 Weapon Focus: Ranged
6 Point Blank Shot
7 Shot on the Run
8 (M) Dodge
9 (H) Toughness
10 (F) Mobility
11 (F) Improved Precise Shot
12 (F) IC:Ranged
13 (F) Weapon Spec: Ranged

1-6 Rogue
7 Monk
8-20 Rogue with Fighter levels when Feat pre-reqs are acheived ie. IPS


Note: This is a general idea as in U7 alot of AP costs are changing.

Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Kensei Repeating Heavy Crossbow Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Intelligence I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I think he said his con was 8 base +4 item = 12 total, so I'm thinking:

Base: 96
H. Durability: 20
Con: 16
Total: 132

Yeah, I'd call that working hard to be a gimp.

Silly low con, +4 con item instead of +6, no toughness feat or enhancements, no false life item, no shrould hp item, no minos helm, no Argo favor, etc.

Except by pulling off that +4 item he pretty much has max-gimped himself on the hp front.

[Dylvish]

No because it's a Drow...if your only gonna put 16 points into Int there's even less reason to go Drow (Although I still say there's very few builds that work as good as a 32pt) you should never have less than 12 COn nor should you spend more than 1 point per Con which for Drow is 12...but I'd personally start with 18 Dex so you can qualify for Improved precise Shot without a +3 Tome and you can put all 5 lvl boosts into Int.



Yes Rogues in general have a bad rep but so do Clerics, Monks, Rangers, FvS, and Barbarians really the only to I don't hear complaints about are Fighters and Bards...although Rogues and Clerics probably tie for the most complaints its mostly about...for rogues at least...the ones with 0% Fort, 120 HP, No status immunties (PaP for example) not the people with 420hp instead of 440....oh and if their Drow :P (sorry the 28pt limit and limited AP line really hurts them)

I see you continually point out the Drow as a 28 point build. I assume you are talking about the points you can spend, but you dont factor in the points they get built into the class. They are the only race in the game with not two, but three stats that start at 10, and one stat with -2, (just like all of the others except for human). This stat is a minus to Con, same as Elves. If you add up the actual points total they get 80, just like the 32 point builds.

Any class that favors the stats Drow are high in will have a bonus on starting points, since they can have them higher without sacrificing elsewhere. In particular, Mechanic rogues, who are Intel and Dex based, are almost designed for the race. CHA 10 does not hurt at all (UMD), and it is easy to start with 12 Con, 13 if you want to push it (which I admittedly do not, I ususally stay at 12 and put my str to 10 instead). Wizards, Sorcs, Bards, and TWF Paladins also can do well with them (although WF's do throw a wrench in the racial works, being able to self heal as arcane. Not sure why the Devs saw fit to bring in that off balancer lol)

If I am missing something with the math, please point it out, but the way I see it, Drow are 32 point builds, with 4 of the points already placed for you (which admittedly limits some of the class selections as favorable).



P.S.: I'm not on a 'go Drow' crusade, I'm just trying to clear up some of the facts and what appear to be misconceptions. If I am wrong on some of them, please point it out. :)

[Failedlegend]

I see you continually point out the Drow as a 28 point build. I assume you are talking about the points you can spend, but you dont factor in the points they get built into the class. They are the only race in the game with not two, but three stats that start at 10, and one stat with -2, (just like all of the others except for human). This stat is a minus to Con, same as Elves. If you add up the actual points total they get 80, just like the 32 point builds.

Any class that favors the stats Drow are high in will have a bonus on starting points, since they can have them higher without sacrificing elsewhere. In particular, Mechanic rogues, who are Intel and Dex based, are almost designed for the race. CHA 10 does not hurt at all (UMD), and it is easy to start with 12 Con, 13 if you want to push it (which I admittedly do not, I ususally stay at 12 and put my str to 10 instead). Wizards, Sorcs, Bards, and TWF Paladins also can do well with them (although WF's do throw a wrench in the racial works, being able to self heal as arcane. Not sure why the Devs saw fit to bring in that off balancer lol)

If I am missing something with the math, please point it out, but the way I see it, Drow are 32 point builds, with 4 of the points already placed for you (which admittedly limits some of the class selections as favorable).



P.S.: I'm not on a 'go Drow' crusade, I'm just trying to clear up some of the facts and what appear to be misconceptions. If I am wrong on some of them, please point it out. :)

Yes there are a FEW situations where the pseudo-32pt works although I disagree with wiz/sorc...definitely WF takes that slot...they make good bards and some select pally's but for this specific build I was saying if your only taking 16 Int/Dex and leaving Cha at 10 you've lost the niche you could have fit Drow into but to get 18 in both you would need to spend nothing else just to get 12 Con dumping Cha,Str and Wis (which isn't too bad...but again losing the point of Drow due to lost points in Cha...I'd rather have those 2 pts in Con)

Than there's the APs to consider there's nothing from Drow that is useful...their weapon bonuses only affect Shortswords/Rapiers so that's useless their SR is easily replaced by a Wand/Scroll or an item (it would be an epic AP line if it stacked though...devs please do this) and that's pretty much all they have but the Dex Enh is good....Human's get Healing Amp...your choice of stat Enh and skill boost (which is outshined by rogue boost so useless)...Halfling have Dex Enh...To-hit boost.....SA Boost....Saves....and a cool Dragonmark (practically useless for a feat starved class) even WF because Wis/Cha are dump stats unless you multiclass. I don't think Dwarf or Elf bring much to the table though...Elf would be beter but IIRC AA doesn't work with repeaters.

In short Drow are useful but only in very specific situations and if your not going to have at least two of Int/Dex/Cha at at least 18 it defeats the advantage of Drow vs. a 32pt.

Oh and just a note I think it would be cool if they made Drow a 32pt. +2 Int -2 Con race (Charisma doesn't really fit the race) but that would probably screw up alot of people's builds....maybe make it non-retroactive. Also again they should make their AP enhancement stacking with spells etc. it would make Drow far more useful.

[Dylvish]

Yes there are a FEW situations where the pseudo-32pt works although I disagree with wiz/sorc...definitely WF takes that slot...they make good bards and some select pally's but for this specific build I was saying if your only taking 16 Int/Dex and leaving Cha at 10 you've lost the niche you could have fit Drow into but to get 18 in both you would need to spend nothing else just to get 12 Con dumping Cha,Str and Wis (which isn't too bad...but again losing the point of Drow due to lost points in Cha...I'd rather have those 2 pts in Con)

Than there's the APs to consider there's nothing from Drow that is useful...their weapon bonuses only affect Shortswords/Rapiers so that's useless their SR is easily replaced by a Wand/Scroll or an item (it would be an epic AP line if it stacked though...devs please do this) and that's pretty much all they have but the Dex Enh is good....Human's get Healing Amp...your choice of stat Enh and skill boost (which is outshined by rogue boost so useless)...Halfling have Dex Enh...To-hit boost.....SA Boost....Saves....and a cool Dragonmark (practically useless for a feat starved class) even WF because Wis/Cha are dump stats unless you multiclass. I don't think Dwarf or Elf bring much to the table though...Elf would be beter but IIRC AA doesn't work with repeaters.

In short Drow are useful but only in very specific situations and if your not going to have at least two of Int/Dex/Cha at at least 18 it defeats the advantage of Drow vs. a 32pt.

Oh and just a note I think it would be cool if they made Drow a 32pt. +2 Int -2 Con race (Charisma doesn't really fit the race) but that would probably screw up alot of people's builds....maybe make it non-retroactive. Also again they should make their AP enhancement stacking with spells etc. it would make Drow far more useful.

You are correct in their stats being the primary reason (slightly off though, by maxing 18 on both int and dex, and bringing con to 12, you still have 2 pts to bring something to 10 -i always go str for carrying-, and CHA is already 10, so only Wis becomes a dump. They dont bring much for enhancments (really halflings are the only ones who can, because of the racial rogue enhancments), but they do have +dex and +enchantment saves. Best stats of any race for a repeater rogue. (As for Wizard and Sorc, they are still superior to WF in stats. There is really 1 reason that everyone takes WF and its common knowledge. Repair spells. I cant argue with it, as its simply too powerful to pass up, imbalancing even, but thats the Devs fault for bringing in the ability. Stats and enhancement bonus wise, drow and elves are better. That is a topic for another thread however, one that I will probably avoid like the plague :) ).
--Drow repeater stats --(10/18/12/18/8/10) or (8/18/12/18/8/12)
Halflings get the rogue enhancements, but they have always been the go-to rogue race for the cunning line. They also (I think) have a +dex enhancment. I dont count the DM on the little guys for rogues, as I agree its too tight, but the +1 save is handy.
--Halfling repeater stats if trying for the 18's--(10/18/13/17/8/8), or (8/18/12/18/8/8)
-No one gets a racial bonus to Xbows, so that is moot.
WF lose all of their great physical advantages by trying to go with a repeater build, and can not come up to the stats either, not to mention there is no synergy. Like every race other than halfling, and maybe human, they get no helpful enhancements. Their only advantage would be their immunities, and their dump stats would lower the base on skills for a skill mastery pre. They also would be wasting their stat strengths (namely high con).
--WF repeater stats if trying for the 18's--(9/18/12/17/6/6)
Dwarves are fairly easy.. see WF above. Only they are slighly better (1 dump stat not as bad), and get a +vs all spells save enhancment.
--Dwarf repeater if trying for 18's--(9/18/12/17/8/6)
Elves are the other race that can come very close in stats (tied with haflings), but, like most of the rest, dont get any more advantages in enhancements than the Drow themselves. +dex and +enchantment save enhancements.
--Elf repeater if trying for 18's--(8/18/12/18/8/8)
Humans. Humans are, just like every other spec / class in the game, good at repeaters. Not great or the best, but good. They also do get a couple of enhancments that can be helpful, namely the skill boost (When possible I prefer it because it can also be used for atk, damage, saves, etc), and the healing amp. They can bring up any two stats 1 pt.
--Human repeater if trying for 18's--(10/17/12/17/8/8)

As you can see, ALL of the races have to dump everything to try and get 18int/dex, and still only 3 of them can even reach it. All of them have to keep con at 12 to achieve it, and all of them have lower stats in other things still than the Drow.
You really seem to dislike the drow (the impression I am getting rather strongly at any rate), and I will be the first to agree that their racial specials for enhancments need work, but give them credit where it is due at least.



P.S.: Idea I love that is floating around the race forums is, since they have brought in the WF immunities, to correct the Drow SR and make it a scaling passive, with enh. base would be 8+level, and can buy +2/4/6/8, making it 28 base, 36 max at lvl 20 (decent base, buyable to slightly higher than the buff, so there would still be a reason to purchase it).

[Failedlegend]

lots of info

I agree going 18/18 on other races wouldn't work I was just disagreeing with the guy who was only putting 16/16 with drow which sorta defeated the purpose

It's pretty much between Drow & Halfling...maybe human....and Half-Elf might be interesting

[Dylvish]

I agree going 18/18 on other races wouldn't work I was just disagreeing with the guy who was only putting 16/16 with drow which sorta defeated the purpose

It's pretty much between Drow & Halfling...maybe human....and Half-Elf might be interesting

Ahh, understood, and I agree. I havent been able to find out overly much about half elves, with all the talk being mostly on the Horcs. Can't wait to experiment with em.

[Razcar]

OP, if you want to you could improve your HP quite easily.

Minimum level 15 +6 Con items are a dime a dozen on the Auction House. +16 HP right there compared to the +4 Con item you are using now.

Take the Toughness feat at level 18, or respec a prior fear, for 42 extra HP (at level 20) including Halfling enhancements.

Then a Greater False Life item (can often find belts on the AH teamed with Poison or Disease Immunity on the same item) will increase your HP another +30.

Base: 96
H. Durability: 20
Con (14, 8+6): 32
Toughness: 38 (at level 16)
Greater False Life: 30

=216 HP. Still not good, but better that 132.

Other (more expensive) ways to boost it:
+2 Tome from Auction House (or DDO Store): +16
Argonnessen Favor (from the Giant Hold pack): +10
Minos Legens helmet (from the Orchard of the Macabre): +20

=+46 HP for 262 at level 16, double from what you have now.

[RandomKeypress]

I'm a newbie rogue - my first character is a mechanic, and he's only just gotten to level 20.
This is just a brief comment regarding the hit-point recommendations - a lot of the HP recommendations call for greensteel items or ToD rings or other raid gear. The problem for newbies like me is that you need to get in on the raids in the first place to get the HP. Bit of a catch 22 situation really.
I'm also a little miffed that my character profile on MyDDO is reading 50 hp lower than my actual current unbuffed HP.
Maybe it's that I'm a repeater rogue, maybe I've got a bad rep, but I get declined for a lot of raids...

[Razcar]

I'm a newbie rogue - my first character is a mechanic, and he's only just gotten to level 20.
This is just a brief comment regarding the hit-point recommendations - a lot of the HP recommendations call for greensteel items or ToD rings or other raid gear. The problem for newbies like me is that you need to get in on the raids in the first place to get the HP. Bit of a catch 22 situation really.Yes it's a bit of a conundrum. That's why I don't recommend playing rogue as a first character. They are very gear intensive, and benefit like few others from having a sugar daddy or two.

I didn't mention any raid gear in my HP list above on purpose though. But if you want to get standing +400 HP you'll need Green Steel HP, tomes, Exceptional Con, unless you play a dwarf or WF, TR etc that could start with higher than 14 Con. A rogue who starts with 14 Con will have 362 HP at cap without GS and Exceptional Con (but GFL, Minos, +2 Con tome neither which are hard to get).

[gigobyte]

Ahh, understood, and I agree. I havent been able to find out overly much about half elves, with all the talk being mostly on the Horcs. Can't wait to experiment with em.

Half-Elves have a lot of potential, from what I've managed to find out, their starting stats are all 8, they get a second diplo, on a separate 15 second timer, and a feat at level 1 that makes them count as one level of a selected class without actually multiclassing (there's a thread on the forums somewhere, not sure where though), the advantage of this for a mechanic, I suppose, would be to take the pally feat which allows you to add up to 2 of you're cha mod to saves. Too bad they aren't the best looking race out there.

EDIT:
found it: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206066

[bandyman1]

Yes it's a bit of a conundrum. That's why I don't recommend playing rogue as a first character. They are very gear intensive, and benefit like few others from having a sugar daddy or two.

I didn't mention any raid gear in my HP list above on purpose though. But if you want to get standing +400 HP you'll need Green Steel HP, tomes, Exceptional Con, unless you play a dwarf or WF, TR etc that could start with higher than 14 Con. A rogue who starts with 14 Con will have 362 HP at cap without GS and Exceptional Con (but GFL, Minos, +2 Con tome neither which are hard to get).

/QFT.

Which is why I said this;



There's absolutely NO reason for a rogue of any race or build to be 20th level with sub 350ish HPs. And 400 is actually a much, much better benchmark.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to get by with less....I'm saying that you've intentionally gimped your toon by doing so.

;)