Dilletante

[Azuarc]

Newbie warning - I'm not a highly-experienced player, so I might say some things that are flat out wrong. I also haven't even been on Lammania, but I'm assuming this wouldn't be a thread to start on the live forums.



Half-elves are still well under development, but right now it seems like their signature trait is the set of dilletante feats that let them choose a class from which to receive select bonuses as though they were a level 1 in that class. Also, it is said that there will be follow-up enhancements based on your choice of dilletante. I want to look specifically at dilletante, independent of other aspects of half-elves, and decide how useful the base feat is, and what the bonuses should maybe be.


Dilletante bonuses...note that each feat requires 13 in some attribute, and that the bonuses do not stack with basic class features
Barbarian: DR 1/-
Bard: 3 fascinates per rest, can use bard wands
Cleric/FvS: can use cleric wands/scrolls
Fighter: Melee martial proficiency
Monk: Proficiency with monk weapons, monk unarmored wisdom bonus capped at +2
Paladin: +2 (max) to saves from charisma bonus
Ranger: Ranged martial proficiency
Rogue: 1d6 sneak attack dmg
Sorc/Wiz: Can use wiz wands/scrolls


Thoughts:
* Barb - at the level given, worthless. Korthos bracers duplicate this effect. Presumable the enhancements will up the bonus to 4/- or 5/-, which makes it passable, but at the level you'd likely get the tier 4 bonus, would you still be content with DR 5?
* Bard - fascinate is maybe handy at lower levels, but not a wonderful ability in the long run. (Are there many "bard" wands?") Fascinate is a level 1 bard song, so my best guess is some other low-end skills pop up during the enhancements. Is Inspire Courage or Inspire Competence at a low level all that helpful?
* Cleric/FvS - this will be the most popular for its own sake, since it eliminates many classes from needing UMD to be self-sufficient. UMD isn't completely outmoded, but the most important part is. The question becomes what enhancements would be available. Since this is a strong base skill compared to the rest, the enh are probably lame, like +1 to heal skill.
* Fighter - full melee proficiency would definitely be handy on my human cleric right now so I don't have to use a feat to get prof with a good weapon. Of course, that human feat leaves me open to take an exotic or to not take one at all. I'd say the human comes out ahead, but if we aren't nailing ourselves to a particular weapon, such as a two-hand user that can go between the three slashing weapons, this could be nice. But what are the enhancements? -- I'm doubtful on Weapon Focus/Spec effects.
* Monk - Prof with q-staff is pointless, and who would want to use a kama or a shuriken just to use them? Going unarmored and getting +2 AC is iffy, but if the cap is raised with enhancements, that might change the story. How high would you need that bonus to be to actually consider this one? A two-level splash does get two feats and evasion, after all.
* Paladin - Put this in the category with the monk. +2 is certainly nice, but nice enough? OTOH, a much larger bonus could be rather profound. Of course, you'd need to have a CHA modifier to match, but select builds will have that already. Others need not apply.
* Ranger - Ranged proficiency? Word on the forums is that ranged damage is pitiful, especially without a ton of feats to back it up. The only class that can pull that off is fighter, who doesn't need the proficiency. Being able to plink from the back isn't a bad thing, but is this worth taking even if half elves can go AA? For that matter, what are the enhancement bonuses? If they tack on the extended feats rangers get like Rapid Shot and Manyshot, then I'll definitely reconsider. Otherwise, I'd have gone with TWF-style bonuses instead.
* Rogue - 1d6 SA is ok at low levels, although likely irrelevant as you'll either blow through that content anyway or be fighting solo. If the enhancements add to the bonus, taking it to (presumably) 5d6, this could be a nice bonus for a non-tanking melee. Worth making a half-elf monk or ranger? IDK. An extra 17.5 dmg per attack is nothing to complain about, though.
* Sorc/Wiz - See cleric, minus the praise for using heal and raise dead scrolls. Not sure how many would want this besides non-arcane warforged. Will depend completely on the enhancements.


Does this sound about right? Anyone thinking that the dilletant bonuses themselves are worth making a half elf over other popular choices for a build? What enhancements do you want to see or think we should expect to see for each class?

[jkm]

they aren't going to give you free feats, they are going to give you enhancement lines that already exist.

for example -> barbarian DR line, rogue sneak attack damage (up to +12).

most likely for cleric, fvs, wiz, sorc you'll get wand and scroll mastery

fighter he was talking about the armor mastery (greater dex bonus in armor)

monk/pally -> those enhancement lines would have to be added to allow them to open up more bonuses

the only odd one is ranger

[Noctus]

DR 1/- is always usefull, as you wont be wearing Korthos equipment for your whole live. :rolleyes:

[Tuney]

Most Clerical wands can be used by a bard. Just not lesser restore so you are still lugging them pots arround.

[The_Cataclysm]

It should be noted that the bard, ranger, and paladin feats all give you access to cure wands.

[Eladrin]

the only odd one is ranger
We agree!

So we're adding Lesser Bow Strength to it. (You have hunted with some of the greatest rangers of Khorvaire. You gain proficiency with all martial ranged weapons, and can add up to 2 points of your Strength bonus to bow damage. You are able to use wands and scrolls as if you were a level one ranger. For item use purposes you count as a level one ranger in addition to any other classes you possess. This feat is not recommended for characters with actual ranger levels.)

Edit:
From the bloopers reel, the fighter dilettante feat at one point gave proficiency in all marital melee weapons. Yow!

[Coldin]

We agree!

So we're adding Lesser Bow Strength to it. (You have hunted with some of the greatest rangers of Khorvaire. You gain proficiency with all martial ranged weapons, and can add up to 2 points of your Strength bonus to bow damage. You are able to use wands and scrolls as if you were a level one ranger. For item use purposes you count as a level one ranger in addition to any other classes you possess. This feat is not recommended for characters with actual ranger levels.)

Edit:
From the bloopers reel, the fighter dilettante feat at one point gave proficiency in all marital melee weapons. Yow!

And now I think I finally have a very good reason to make my Elf Arcane Archer Bard into a Half-Elf. :)

[irivan]

Ok glad that i saw the Newbie warning so i wont be so harsh.

UMD is no where near out moded, and the use of just low level cleric scrolls and wands will only get you through about level 9.

And then you are no longer self sufficient.

To be fully self sufficient you need to be able to use a heal scroll with very close to no fail chance. Other wise the dice rolls will fail a lot. For some reason DDO's dice rolling mechanism will nearly always roll a 1-3 on a d20 (1-20) the first time you attempt to make any check, especially UMD and caster scroll checks. Not sure if this is intentional, but trust me after years of doing this i have plenty of proof.

In any event Heal scrolling is a must for self sufficiency, though this feat is nice for the low levels. But that is about it. I hope they expand it through enhancements.

[justagame]

We agree!

Edit:
From the bloopers reel, the fighter dilettante feat at one point gave proficiency in all marital melee weapons. Yow!

Yikes. Those hit harder than khopeshes. Definitely over-powered.

[BLugas]

marital melee weapons. Yow!
Wow...
weapons to help in your marriage, how useful!
what sort of weapons are they going to be?

Edit: Yes, I am joking, and I did not mean to offend anyone.

[Elfvyra]

Edit:
From the bloopers reel, the fighter dilettante feat at one point gave proficiency in all marital melee weapons. Yow!

Can you actually fit a Mother-in-Law in a backpack? ;)

[Robi3.0]

Wow...
weapons to help in your marriage, how useful!
what sort of weapons are they going to be?

Edit: Yes, I am joking, and I did not mean to offend anyone.

Sex weapons!

[BLugas]

Sex weapons!

Ooh ....
you just reminded me of something I found on the internet...
I do not know if I can post this here... it might be slightly not suitable for work... but here we go:
http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/dan/sex/knifeplay.jpg
No idea how this would be related to marriage, though...

[Drakos]

they aren't going to give you free feats, they are going to give you enhancement lines that already exist.

for example -> barbarian DR line, rogue sneak attack damage (up to +12).

most likely for cleric, fvs, wiz, sorc you'll get wand and scroll mastery

fighter he was talking about the armor mastery (greater dex bonus in armor)

monk/pally -> those enhancement lines would have to be added to allow them to open up more bonuses

the only odd one is ranger
According to the release notes, Half-Elves get a free Dilitant feat at first level. The feats have the benefits listed by the OP. Eladrin said that theye would be Enhancements, eventually, that would allow you to enhance the effects granted by the Dilletante feats. He didn't say the enhancement lines would be the same ones avaliable to the respective classes.

[Mockduck]

We agree!

So we're adding Lesser Bow Strength to it. (You have hunted with some of the greatest rangers of Khorvaire. You gain proficiency with all martial ranged weapons, and can add up to 2 points of your Strength bonus to bow damage. You are able to use wands and scrolls as if you were a level one ranger. For item use purposes you count as a level one ranger in addition to any other classes you possess. This feat is not recommended for characters with actual ranger levels.)

Edit:
From the bloopers reel, the fighter dilettante feat at one point gave proficiency in all marital melee weapons. Yow!

Cool! Sounds neat.

[Memnir]

Edit:
From the bloopers reel, the fighter dilettante feat at one point gave proficiency in all marital melee weapons. Yow!If we're talking Lorena Bobbitt-level marital melee weapons - you'd have to add in sneak attack damage, and an auto-crit.

:eek:

[Dwarfo]

newbie alert:

so if you took the wizzie dili feat, at lvl 9 you could use teleport scrolls?

[Visty]

newbie alert:

so if you took the wizzie dili feat, at lvl 9 you could use teleport scrolls?

with a 25% chance (as long teleport is a lvl5 spell, cant remember that)

[BLugas]

If we're talking Lorena Bobbitt-level marital melee weapons - you'd have to add in sneak attack damage, and an auto-crit.

:eek:

Well, Now I think you gave me new resolve to what really happened on Lorena's case...
maybe "something" went wrong during "that", maybe they were into "knifeplay" ...
and maybe, If Lorena had read the
http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/dan/sex/knifeplay.jpg
the inadvert amputation could be prevented...

[jkm]

According to the release notes, Half-Elves get a free Dilitant feat at first level. The feats have the benefits listed by the OP. Eladrin said that theye would be Enhancements, eventually, that would allow you to enhance the effects granted by the Dilletante feats. He didn't say the enhancement lines would be the same ones avaliable to the respective classes.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3279160&postcount=66


Indeed. I plan on adding a variety of lines in the future:

These could include things like:
Increase your effective level of your dilettante class (mostly useful for caster level purposes)
Access to related class enhancements (Fighter Armor Mastery, perhaps?)
Enhancements that increase the actual Dilettante abilities (Increase the max bonus from Lesser Divine Grace, get more Sneak Attack dice, etc.)
(But they might not - these are my initial ideas.)

the key point is that it is much easier to have the enhancement buff the ability on the feat than it is for the enhancement to give something else entirely.

[Azuarc]

they aren't going to give you free feats, they are going to give you enhancement lines that already exist.
For example -> barbarian DR line, rogue sneak attack damage (up to +12).
most likely for cleric, fvs, wiz, sorc you'll get wand and scroll mastery
fighter he was talking about the armor mastery (greater dex bonus in armor)
It took me a minute to realize what you were actually saying here. I would argue that automatic weapon proficiencies would classify as a free feat. And in a sense, it's already a feat you're selecting. If you just think of this as the feat you would have gotten if you were human, except that it's focused into this other secondary list, it isn't that preposterous to consider.

I was not aware that it was specifically an existing enhancement line. I imagined it would be something that was specific to half-elves but that directly related to the dilletante bonus in some regard. I guess +12 sneak attack damage isn't too bad either compared to my version, for not actually being a rogue.

As for the bonuses suggested, I guess the wand/scroll mastery is a good complement to giving access to class wands and scrolls. The fighter one is odd considering it's not a match to what the bonus offers. Shouldn't the base feat also add armor proficiency then? Not protesting that particular choice, but it just seems incongruent.


DR 1/- is always usefull, as you wont be wearing Korthos equipment for your whole live.
No, but it's easily replaced. Adamantite, invulnerability, various unique items all have DR X/- on them. It's not unrealistic to assume you might have one, and those all extend well beyond a reduction of 1. (If the barb line continues to run up to DR 5/-, that's slightly more difficult to match.)


Ok glad that i saw the Newbie warning so i wont be so harsh.

UMD is no where near out moded, and the use of just low level cleric scrolls and wands will only get you through about level 9....And then you are no longer self sufficient.,,,To be fully self sufficient you need to be able to use a heal scroll with very close to no fail chance.
Thank you for your leniency. I wasn't implying UMD would be out-moded -- far from it. UMD allows three things: use of divine magic items, use of arcane magic items, and equipping restricted items. At best, you're eliminating one of these with a dilletante, but considering how many builds and comments I've looked at that say take UMD to use heal and raise dead scrolls, and none that mention the other two, I can see where the priority is. Note, however, that the cleric and FvS bonuses *DO* allow the use of scrolls as well, and as such, the dilletante does open up heal scrolls. Or, as a newbie, I missed something, but that was the way I read it.

"Benefit: You have learned much by watching clerics perform their arts. You are able to use wands and scrolls as if you were a level one cleric, and for item use purposes you count as a level one cleric in addition to any other classes you possess. This feat is not recommended for characters with actual cleric levels."

Do you have to be above cleric level 1 to use a heal scroll?

[catscan420]

I think it works great, as intended. You guys, it's just a feat... how much do you really expect to get out of it? Look at it like this, it opens up a whole new world of multi-classing... or revisiting some builds, that may not need so much multi-classing when built with a half-elf. I kind of like it.

[khaldan]

Do you have to be above cleric level 1 to use a heal scroll?

Diletante cleric gives a 5% chance to cast a heal scroll, and a 25% to use a raise dead scroll.

It's ok for expensive out of combat rezzing, but really only helps with access to CSW wands.

[LordPiglet]

I'll try and remember to log back in to bug report it, but forgot.

At this time though, or at least when I tried last night, you can not change your Diletante racial bonus feat by visiting Fred. Hopefully this is just an error, but it would be nice if it can be swapped, just like any other feat.

[Wrendd]

I was under the impression that Cleric (or FvS, or Wiz, whatever) Dilettante would allow you to use any scroll or wand useable by the chosen class once you reached to proper level. That was part of the "hook" for this racial special ability.

Is this not the way it works? I see that you said a 25% chance to use a raise dead scroll, but shouldn't that be 100% once you reach the required level?

(I am not able to get into the game or the test server, I am am only going off of what Eladrin has said and no actual experience in testing it)

[Dylos_Moon]

I was under the impression that Cleric (or FvS, or Wiz, whatever) Dilettante would allow you to use any scroll or wand useable by the chosen class once you reached to proper level. That was part of the "hook" for this racial special ability.

Is this not the way it works? I see that you said a 25% chance to use a raise dead scroll, but shouldn't that be 100% once you reach the required level?

(I am not able to get into the game or the test server, I am am only going off of what Eladrin has said and no actual experience in testing it)

You would have the same chance of success as a level 1 character of your Dilletante's class, which for higher level scrolls is low, but for all wands is 100%.

Hence why enhancements that increase your caster level would be useful.

[issiana]

You would have the same chance of success as a level 1 character of your Dilletante's class, which for higher level scrolls is low, but for all wands is 100%.

Hence why enhancements that increase your caster level would be useful.

yip, but still its kinda handy for a fighter to take cleric line for self wand healing (cheaper than pot,pot,pot) or even wizard line to self buff with stoneskin and blur wands. something that increased the caster lvl would be very handy though for scroll use.

[OverlordOfRats]

yip, but still its kinda handy for a fighter to take cleric line for self wand healing (cheaper than pot,pot,pot) or even wizard line to self buff with stoneskin and blur wands. something that increased the caster lvl would be very handy though for scroll use.

Handy yes, but are you going to increase your wisdom or intelligence to 13 when starting out to take the feat? Right now I would not take it unless I already had that ability at or close to 13. Using 5 starting ability points just to get the Dilettante feat is not worth it IMO. Personally I would suggest not having a minimum requirement because it is a racial ability. Similar to how Rangers bypass the minimum DEX required for TWF. But since I can feel the temperature rising already;), I will instead suggest the following to make it more usable.


I would recommend to drop the base ability to take a Dilettante feat from 13 to 11.

Lets take 3 fighters who want to use cure wands(Cleric Dilettante-WIS:13) or stone skin wands(Wizard Dilettante-INT:13).

28pt Fighter
Abilities:17-12-16-8-8-8 (1 point extra)
With 13 as the requirement, needs to drop 2 in DEX and 1 in STR:( or CON:( in order to add 5 to WIS or INT.
With 11 as the requirement, needs to just drop 2 in DEX to add 5 to WIS or INT:).

32pt Fighter
Abilities:17-12-16-8-8-8 (5 points extra)
With 13 as the requirement, No problem!!:D
With 11 as the requirement, could drop 1 in DEX and add 1 to STR(for the magic 18:D) and still take it.

32pt TWF Fighter
Abilities:17-15-16-8-8-8 (1 point extra)
With 13 as the requirement, needs to drop 1 in STR:( and CON:( or 2 in STR:mad: or CON:mad: in order to add 5 to WIS or INT.
With 11 as the requirement, needs to just drop 1 in STR:( or CON:( to add 5 to WIS or INT.


Changing the required ability from 13 to 11 would give Half Elves more options. They were supposed to be the versatile race.

[Dylos_Moon]

Handy yes, but are you going to increase your wisdom or intelligence to 13 when starting out to take the feat? Right now I would not take it unless I already had that ability at or close to 13. Using 5 starting ability points just to get the Dilettante feat is not worth it IMO. Personally I would suggest not having a minimum requirement because it is a racial ability. Similar to how Rangers bypass the minimum DEX required for TWF. But since I can feel the temperature rising already;), I will instead suggest the following to make it more usable.

Ranger Dilettante (Dex) and Paladin Dilettante (Cha) will also grant the use of healing wands, as well as Favored Soul (Cha) and Bard (Cha)

[donfilibuster]

From the bloopers reel, the fighter dilettante feat at one point gave proficiency in all marital melee weapons. Yow!

In older editions there were the frying pan, the tortilla maker, the dry iron and the throwing dishes.

[Rizzia]

Is there a hidden alignment requirement? or are non-lawful classes allowed to take a dabble in a lawful class? and vice-versa?

I toyed with the idea of a bard with a couple of paladin splashes (saves), but eventually remembered the alignment restrictions, but this feat would make that possible (to a lesser degree).

Edit: Or say a neutral sorcerer, seems like it could take the paladin one for free saves bonus, without having to deal with unholy damage.

[Battlehawke]

Very nice!

[OverlordOfRats]

Is there a hidden alignment requirement? or are non-lawful classes allowed to take a dabble in a lawful class? and vice-versa?

I toyed with the idea of a bard with a couple of paladin splashes (saves), but eventually remembered the alignment restrictions, but this feat would make that possible (to a lesser degree).

Edit: Or say a neutral sorcerer, seems like it could take the paladin one for free saves bonus, without having to deal with unholy damage.

Just checked. Made a CN fighter with the paladin dilettante feat. No alignment requirements. Just had to have a CHR of 13 to take the feat.

[Burtle]

Edit: From the bloopers reel, the fighter dilettante feat at one point gave proficiency in all marital melee weapons. Yow!

That's sig worthy ..I'm "stealing" that one.. hehe :D

[tihocan]

We agree!

So we're adding Lesser Bow Strength to it. (You have hunted with some of the greatest rangers of Khorvaire. You gain proficiency with all martial ranged weapons, and can add up to 2 points of your Strength bonus to bow damage. You are able to use wands and scrolls as if you were a level one ranger. For item use purposes you count as a level one ranger in addition to any other classes you possess. This feat is not recommended for characters with actual ranger levels.)
This lesser bow strength seems pointless. If someone wants to deal damage with a bow, the "Full" Bow Strength is still a must.

[Coldin]

This lesser bow strength seems pointless. If someone wants to deal damage with a bow, the "Full" Bow Strength is still a must.

It's possible that further bow strength could be opened up with enhancements. Though since Half-elves don't get the bow damage enhancements, currently it breaks even for damage between the races.

[Valakai]

Suddenly I'm again interested in the race again. Too bad we dont really know much about the dilettante enhancements at this point or how they scale. Seem like very nice ways to make characters different. Hope we could get some idea before HE goes live as it would be good to have the knowledge when making the character and not 10 levels later....

[Gorbadoc]

How Wands and Scrolls Work without UMD:
Note the difference between character level and class level. A 10 paladin/4 fighter has 14 character levels, 10 paladin class levels, and 4 fighter class levels.

Wands:
Wands are simple. If you have the minimum character level for the wand and have at least one class level in a class that gets access to the spell, then you can use the wand 100%. End of story.

Scrolls:
If you have the minimum character level for the scroll and have enough class levels that you are capable of learning the spell in your spell book, then you can use the scroll 100%.

Here's where failure rates come in:
Most scrolls have a minimum character level (listed on the scroll) below the level where any pure caster could actually memorize the scroll. For example, a scroll of Raise Dead has a minimum level of 7 or 8, but no one can memorize Raise Dead without 9 cleric levels or 10 favored soul levels.

In these cases, the scroll user has a failure chance similar to a UMD check. It's a 5% failure chance per class level needed to memorize the spell. In the case of a Raise Dead Scroll:

(Someone please correct me if I have the wrong numbers... I feel like it might actually be 5% for the first level, then 10% per additional level, but I'm away from my DDO computer for another month)

-- A level 8 cleric using a Raise Dead scroll would have a 95% chance to activate it, because he can memorize the spell with just one more cleric level.

-- A level 8 favored soul using a Raise Dead scroll would have a 90% activation rate, because he needs two more class levels.

-- A level 5 cleric/ level 5 favored soul (horrible combination) would have an 80% activation chance, because he could memorize the spell with 4 more cleric levels.

-- A level 1 cleric/ level 19 fighter would have a 60% activation rate, because he could memorize the spell with 8 more cleric levels.

-- A level 1 cleric/ level 19 bard would have a 100% activation rate, because even such a stupid splash build should have the 35 UMD needed to no-fail activate the scroll.

If a character has the minimum character level to activate a scroll, levels in a class that could memorize the spell, and a good UMD score, then the game will use either a UMD check or the level check described above, whichever gives a higher chance of activating the scroll.


* Sorc/Wiz - See cleric, minus the praise for using heal and raise dead scrolls. Not sure how many would want this besides non-arcane warforged. Will depend completely on the enhancements.
As discussed above, you don't actually get no-fail Reconstruct or Mass Repair Moderate scrolls. Also, you can never be a warforged with the half-elf dilettante feat. If (hypothetically) the feat did give access to no-fail scrolls, then I could see a case made for a support cleric to take the sorc feat, both for Teleport and for those times when he has to scroll-heal the warforged tank in a group.

There's been much discussion of enhancements boosting the Dilettante feat's effects. I hope this is more than wild speculation, and that the devs are actually adding such enhancements. If they are, I'm hoping the Wizard/Sorc/Cleric/etc. dilettante feats include enhancements to increase your scroll use chance, perhaps by 2 or 3 class levels per enhancement rank. I think that would be a fair and balanced enhancement line.

[Kydrou]

My only question is why the Sorceror or the Favored Soul Dilettante does not activate the x2 MP bonus from Items (which claim that with at least one level of Sorceror or Favored Soul would do it) if the Dilettante feat claims to "count" as granting a level in the said class.

[Aesop]

I'd still say for the Barbarian Dilletante instead of DR 1/- have it


DR 1/- and 1 Hit Point per level

let this count as Toughness for Enhancement Purposes and let them choose the Barb DR Enhancements if wanted.

This would be more desireable I think.

as for the Sorc and FvS Dilletantes gaining extra SP for Items... it would only be 5% extra as they only count as lvl 1


Aesop

[Lorien_the_First_One]

DR 1/- is always usefull, as you wont be wearing Korthos equipment for your whole live. :rolleyes:

No, by the time you outgrow it you will have stoneskin for DR 10

[Ryiah]

It's ok for expensive out of combat rezzing, but really only helps with access to CSW wands.
It would give access up to cure critical wands, but last I looked the price difference was pretty high. Not to mention you'd need to be in a guild that has access to the vendor to even purchase them.

[JohnRove]

I have been pondering these feats myself, and I am likely to roll a new half-elf when U7 Launches to try out a HE Paladin with Sorc Dilletante, for Buff Wands and possibly a HE Sorc with FvS Dill for access to Self-Heals. I figure this works out well since both classes are going to have the 13 CHA as a simple facet of their build. I am not sure it would be worth the build points on a fighter for either of these. Though I do like the idea of not having to splash my rog/bard to get martial profs (and yes i know about master's touch, but this is something that can't be bugged out).

[kingfisher]

why lesser bow str for rangers? bows suck, bow str makes them better yes, but lesser bow str is joke. why bother? the ranger dil should be a favored enemy of your choice, with lesser bonuses of course.

[daydrmrzzz]

This is just to throw out a possible idea to improve the dilletant lines. I see the half elves as the kings and queens of multiclassing and splash builds, so lets let the lines reflect that. At first lvl, let the feat include the ability to take one skill from the dilletant class and make it a racial skill (add it to the class skill list for all classes that char takes), allowing the character to train a rank in that skill for 1 skill point, regardless of the class he's training in, and have a skill cap of lvl +3. Also, allow the char to choose 1 melee and 1 ranged weapon the dilletant class is proficient in and receive a limited form of weapon focus with those weapons only (+1 to hit, counts as weapon focus for feat prereq, but only for those weapons). Then have enhancement lines for dilletant melee and ranged accuracy, damage, and an enhancement line that allows you to select addition racial skills from your other classes with a prereq that you must be multiclassed (at 4th, 8th, and 12th lvl can add another skill to racial class skills from one of your classes other than dilletant class). So a Sorc with 2 lvls of rogue and a bard dill, could take UMD as a racial class skill, and rapier/shortbow as his dillettant weapons at 1st lvl and add Search, Disable devices, and open locks as racial skills at 4th, 8th, 12th lvls.

[daydrmrzzz]

This is just to throw out a possible idea to improve the dilletant lines. I see the half elves as the kings and queens of multiclassing and splash builds, so lets let the lines reflect that. At first lvl, let the feat include the ability to take one skill from the dilletant class and make it a racial skill (add it to the class skill list for all classes that char takes), allowing the character to train a rank in that skill for 1 skill point, regardless of the class he's training in, and have a skill cap of lvl +3. Also, allow the char to choose 1 melee and 1 ranged weapon the dilletant class is proficient in and receive a limited form of weapon focus with those weapons only (+1 to hit, ki weapon, counts as weapon focus for feat prereq, but only for those weapons). Then have enhancement lines for dilletant melee and ranged accuracy, damage, and an enhancement line that allows you to select additional racial skills from your other classes with a prereq that you must be multiclassed (at 4th, 8th, and 12th lvl can add another skill to racial class skills from one of your classes other than dilletant class). So a Sorc with 2 lvls of rogue and a bard dill, could take UMD as a racial class skill, and rapier/shortbow as his dillettant weapons at 1st lvl and add Search, Disable devices, and Open locks as racial skills at 4th, 8th, 12th lvls. This would make the half elf the masters of self sufficiency, and give them their own niche in character builds.

[Faelyndel]

I agree unlocking class skills / a single class skill would be handy (thinking Bard Dilletante unlocking Perform to increase Fascinate DC in particular) however the concept is complicated by two main factors that I can see. 1) Only a handful of classes have skills that would be worthwhile unlocking so it would decrease the usefullness of other class dilletantes. & 2) Unlocking trap skills or UMD would be a little overpowering for a free racial feat. Not game-breaking, but still unfair.

Overall Dilletantes look like a promising feature but like much of the half-elf class could still use a bit of work, and it'll be interesting to see how the enhancement lines associated with them affect their usefulless.

[Slippery_Steve]

I'm sorry for the poor question but I just can't find an answer anywhere.

Someone maybe knows what enhancements half-elves get with every one of their dilletante? Or even if they get enhancements to improve their dilletante? Cus i have seen people talk about it but actual facts ive seen no-where

[redgod]

just a question since the rogue dilletante feat makes you effectivly 1 level of rogue shouldent you get trap skills it would be much nicer than sneak attack and would let many splash builds to stay pure

this would sell many on the race

[Tsuarok]

just a question since the rogue dilletante feat makes you effectivly 1 level of rogue shouldent you get trap skills it would be much nicer than sneak attack and would let many splash builds to stay pure

this would sell many on the race

I splash rogue for UMD, SA, evasion, and haste boost. Traps... meh.

[azrael4h]

just a question since the rogue dilletante feat makes you effectivly 1 level of rogue shouldent you get trap skills it would be much nicer than sneak attack and would let many splash builds to stay pure

this would sell many on the race

Rogue is most useful for opening up max UMD, and with two levels evasion. Traps can generally be avoided, or you can get a real Rogue to handle them; most classes do not have the skill points to maintain Search, Disable Device, and UMD cross class. The only ones that can afford to splash Rogue and handle traps are Wizard (high INT for skill points), Bard (UMD class skill, highish skill points), and Ranger (Search and spot class skills, decent number of skill points).

Sneak attack is a free +1d6 damage if you don't have aggro. All melees can use that, even if it only hits two or three times per fight.

[Failedlegend]

One way of improving Dilly's a tiny bit would be to remove the Minimum Stat because otherwise the few things that COULD be useful end up costing build points in a stat you'll barely use....also it might help to add a bonus to a skill (note: DD,OL,Perform are not used on purpose) than at least if you can only choose your own class' Dilly than you get a minor boost.

Barb: + 2 Intimidate
Bard: +1 to all Skills
Cleric: +2 Concentration
FvS: +2 Jump
Fighter: +2 Intimidate
Monk: +2 Balance
Pally: +2 Intimidate
Ranger: +2 Spot
Rogue: +2 UMD
Sorc: +2 Concentration
Wizard: +2 Concentration

This way even though most of the Dilly's are useless except for incredibly specific builds (aside from Cleric/Fighter) at least you can get a relevant skill bonus.