Please reconsider nerfing Touch of Death

[airyxi]

Hey there, I made a monk not long ago for one reason: Touch of Death dealing 500 untyped damage with the chance of multiple landings. This increase to the monk's damage output makes it an asset to any group. Will Monk party members be as desirable after this change in Update 7 takes place? Will playing a Monk be as desirable after this change? I'm not saying monk's are useless without it; but I am saying that many of the people that I know in this game will be more likely to decline a monk's request to join a party if this change is not corrected. Enhancing the light side of being a monk is awesome and I thank you for it, but the idea of being a DARK monk is very attractive to many people. After this takes effect when those people level they are going to be angry to find out that everyone tells them they are a noob for going dark path. If you think 500 untyped damage is too much, you should reconsider your alterations before all the people playing monks completely abandon them; and potentially your game. Sticky if ya hear me ~

[SINIBYTE]

Hey there, I made a monk not long ago for one reason: Touch of Death dealing 500 untyped damage with the chance of multiple landings. This increase to the monk's damage output makes it an asset to any group. Will Monk party members be as desirable after this change in Update 7 takes place? Will playing a Monk be as desirable after this change? I'm not saying monk's are useless without it; but I am saying that many of the people that I know in this game will be more likely to decline a monk's request to join a party if this change is not corrected. Enhancing the light side of being a monk is awesome and I thank you for it, but the idea of being a DARK monk is very attractive to many people. After this takes effect when those people level they are going to be angry to find out that everyone tells them they are a noob for going dark path. If you think 500 untyped damage is too much, you should reconsider your alterations before all the people playing monks completely abandon them; and potentially your game. Sticky if ya hear me ~

Glad I'm rolling a new barbarian... and there I was thinking all those pre-reqs to get TOD were actually worth it for me to be viable as a pure DPS class. Guess not.

Lame.

[Calebro]

Sticky if ya hear me ~
Good luck with that....

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Hey there, I made a monk not long ago for one reason: Touch of Death dealing 500 untyped damage with the chance of multiple landings.

That alone is reason to consider a nerf on it.

[airyxi]

That alone is reason to consider a nerf on it.

Right, and they should nerf clerics because they are good at healing.

[Ragnar7]

That alone is reason to consider a nerf on it.

So lets take all interesting abilities from all the classes that make people want to play them and nerf them so that all classes are insipid.

[blumsborres]

What change are they making to TOD in Update 7? I didn't catch that.

[Antheal]

Instead of being 500 "untyped" damage with no save, it's now "negative energy" type damage with a save for half damage.

Which means not only will there be a good chance of only doing half the potential damage, if your enemy has any kind of Death Ward spell/ability, the Touch of Death wont even work to begin with.

[Stermlin]

What change are they making to TOD in Update 7? I didn't catch that.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=275727

[djsonar919]

I haven't been really happy with any of the changes that Turbine is making to this game as of late. If the Devs do make this change to TOD then I'm leaving the game. (Not like they care about the people who actually have been paying for this game from its inception.) To me, it is all about lack of planning on their end. All they are going to do is come out with something else, then nerf. Come out with something else, then nerf again. What will eventually happen is that things in this game will become so nerfed that it won't matter what classes you play or builds you make.

[jjflanigan]

I find it odd that they are making this change to Touch of Death but not making the same change to Slayer arrows (which uses the exact same effect). With the inclusion of many shot, the slayer arrow effect, more often then not, goes off more often in a fight than a monk will be able to use Touch of Death and yet it remains 500 untyped damage.

[LupusVai]

I find it odd that they are making this change to Touch of Death but not making the same change to Slayer arrows (which uses the exact same effect). With the inclusion of many shot, the slayer arrow effect, more often then not, goes off more often in a fight than a monk will be able to use Touch of Death and yet it remains 500 untyped damage.

Not really.

TOD is on demand and often procs upto 3 times in one shot (i have read sometimes 5 times but i have no idea how thats possible and have not seen it on my dark monk). Many shot is 20 seconds in every two minutes at the most. The rest of the time bow is slow shooting and although slaying procs on occasion it is no where close to TOD in effectiveness. Meanwhile monk is hitting for much more dammage all the time while an AA is shooting slowly hoping for a 20.

[Chai]

Hey there, I made a monk not long ago for one reason: Touch of Death dealing 500 untyped damage with the chance of multiple landings.

This is why it needed a little nerf bat love. A class should be good when you spend prereqs to get a PRE and then spend more prereqs to gain an ability that has alot of power. When its so overpowered that the min maxers gravitate to it and saying the entire class isnt worth it without being dark path TOD spec, it has to be changed.

I could kind of smell a nerf coming on this. I didnt necessarily know what that would be until recently, but when a toon can hit for 500 points at level 9, its overpowered. I figured they would bump it back to 18 which puts it in line with slayer arrows and vorpal strike, and even make it part of ninja spy 3. This whole DC numbers game they are playing with on it looks weird, but I will reserve full judgement until I play it for a bit.

The true touch of death is quivering palm anyhow. (save or die) This is more like touch of pain. (damage)

[toukai]

Instead of being 500 "untyped" damage with no save, it's now "negative energy" type damage with a save for half damage.

Which means not only will there be a good chance of only doing half the potential damage, if your enemy has any kind of Death Ward spell/ability, the Touch of Death wont even work to begin with.

Then the dark monk will be useless in epics!!

[Chai]

Not really.

TOD is on demand and often procs upto 3 times in one shot (i have read sometimes 5 times but i have no idea how thats possible and have not seen it on my dark monk). Many shot is 20 seconds in every two minutes at the most. The rest of the time bow is slow shooting and although slaying procs on occasion it is no where close to TOD in effectiveness. Meanwhile monk is hitting for much more dammage all the time while an AA is shooting slowly hoping for a 20.

Thats why at level 9 its overpowered. Why argue about TOD -vs- slayer arrows when I can have both on the same toon if I wanted. Forget about the fact that the monk is basically a pile on at this point with one cool ability that procs 500 point hits. Many shot until cooldown, toss on the wraps and start laying the 500 point smack down every 15 seconds after your first Qi build up.

[krud]

We are getting exactly what all the total respec people were asking for. "It will make it easier for the devs to make changes to the game, knowing that there is a mechanism for the players to adapt their characters". And here is further proof they were correct. Deal with it and buy your heartwood. It's what the people wanted. ;)

[Lorz]

Sounds like they are balancing the game.
Get over it. Change happens adapt. At least you can these days....used to be reroll, make it a bank, or compensate.


Some of you just don't know how easy you got it.


/kids today....

[Odin's_Hugin]

Then the dark monk will be useless in epics!!

No. Epic mobs have epic ward, not deathward.

But seriously, if you guys were cool with a Dark monk doing only 500 damage a hit 2 updates ago, why whine this much now when it STILL DOES very often 500 damage? And can eventually land for 3x, doing a minimum of 250 and a max (if no saves) of 1500?

[AMDarkwolf]

ToD isn't a good reason to go dark anyways, to 'claim' that the entire effectiveness of the class rests on that one focal point shows just how limited your ability with the monk class is.

Nerf it, Never liked that it was added s it is, would have preferred it was simply a aoe 'harm' like 3xlight is.

Or f-k that, just let monks do a 1k mass heal effect with 3x light. That hits undead. (can you see now how balancing light and dark monks THIS way would SEVERELY upset the games balance in other area's?)

I don't see how you can think this is 'balanced' and whine about leaving cuz of its change. it needs changed, it was barely balanced even when you could only hit once with it, at that point a dark monk was slightly ahead of a good light monk(considering both monks at lv 20 and light spamming earth IV strikes as often as possible)

Now, with people hitting 3-4 times in one 'hit' The whole new double-strike thing imo is just pure stupid, why, oh why did they try to slip that past as a 'dps lag fix', tired of being treated like morons by the devs. Well at least THIS is one smart move, but I'm sure they'll mess that one up somehow too.

[JustWinBaby]

So they made ToD not as effective. Doesn't the change make sense though? Touch of Death?

So making that only do negative energy damage kind of makes sense to me. Untyped damage wouldn't fit, even though that was the most beneficial. Maybe instead of negative energy...maybe Unholy damage or something like that?

Just a thought...

[zebidos]

What is the point now?

At higher levels 18 - 20 500 damage every 15 seconds IS NOT THAT GREAT. It just made monks a bit more useful. Ok I understand it was a bit too powerful at lower levels but monks SUCK at higher levels and need SOMETHING to make them somewhat usefull.

Barbs, fighters etc can get 200+ damage per strike at higher levels and monks get what..40 - 60 per strike?

What possible use are monks now at higher levels?

Monks were never overpowered at higher levels, if anything they are the most weakest melee class in the game at high levels, I can now give up on any shroud runs. I will be selling all my ingredients, handwraps etc etc in the AH.

I give up, I thought that as a premium race Monks were going to be decent, and yes they are up to about level 14.

Meh.

[AMDarkwolf]

again, really, if you think monks 'suck' at higher levels. Reroll.

I don't get this issue. yes you don't match barb dps. U wanna match barb dps, make a barb.

We don't buff as well as bards, u want to buff, make a bard or caster.

We don't heal as well as clerics/fvs, u want to heal, make one of those.

Why would u, again, center the entire usefulness of the class on ONE tiny aspect of what a monk is?

A monk is the balance of all things(Is one way to explain) which does NOT mean 'top dps, top buffer, top damage reduction, top ac, top blah blah..

It means your at the midpoint or slightly above average in everything. Your addition to any group, raises the ability of that whole group with your uniqueness. Why would monks be highest DPS AND all the rest. What right minded player would want to play a barb or fighter at that point?

[zebidos]

Balanced toons dont get in to high level raids.


Ok take the average shroud run

You as party leader need to fill 2 more melee spots

Do you take.

- A fighter - great dps
- A barbarian - uber dps
- A monk - average dps

You as party leader need someone to buff the party do you take:

- A monk who can buff the party for 1 minute
- A sorc/wiz or bard who can buff the party for 20 minutes+ per cast


You as party leader need a healer who do you take:

- A cleric who can..HEAL
- A favoured soul WHO CAN HEAL
- A monk who can put out a mass cure light wounds spell every so often

Monks are now once again the laughing stock of the game, a "balanced" toon doesn't bring anything to a party at higher levels.

[Soleran]

Balanced toons dont get in to high level raids.


Ok take the average shroud run

You as party leader need to fill 2 more melee spots

Do you take.

- A fighter - great dps
- A barbarian - uber dps
- A monk - average dps

You as party leader need someone to buff the party do you take:

- A monk who can buff the party for 1 minute
- A sorc/wiz or bard who can buff the party for 20 minutes+ per cast


You as party leader need a healer who do you take:

- A cleric who can..HEAL
- A favoured soul WHO CAN HEAL
- A monk who can put out a mass cure light wounds spell every so often

Monks are now once again the laughing stock of the game, a "balanced" toon doesn't bring anything to a party at higher levels.

Shroud as a high lvl raid? I would even take an AA ranger to fill my dps spots in shroud.

As for a buffer as long as I had one caster in the raid I wouldnt even think twice about who goes in that buff slot.

And really healer, that has never been a spot traditionally filled by a monk so that's a bit moot however to humor the question either a FVS or Cleric to heal.

[Khayvan]

I'm kind of torn on this. I agree with those saying it's too powerful when you get it, very few classes (or none?) can one-shot a red name at these levels like a dark monk can. However, as you go up and enemies have more HP it balances out and ToD helps keep monks competitve as DPS toons. And most people are spending the majority of their time at the higher levels, not in level 9-12 quests.

Really, I think scaling damage would have been the best idea, so it starts out lower and builds to 500 at level 18-20. Or just make it a level 18 ability, period. I've had a lot better success with ToD than QP, so it makes little sense to me that I got it 6 levels earlier.


Why would u, again, center the entire usefulness of the class on ONE tiny aspect of what a monk is?

I think (or, rather, I'm afraid) it's because DDO boils down to nothing but DPS in the minds of many or most players. Monk is a melee class, regardless of what else it can do, and people looking to fill groups are wanting melee toons that can dish out the damage. With our main weapon taking such a huge hit in effectiveness, why wouldn't group leaders just fill that slot with another fighter or barb?

[Bufo_Alvarius]

Balanced toons dont get in to high level raids.


Ok take the average shroud run

You as party leader need to fill 2 more melee spots

Do you take.

- A fighter - great dps
- A barbarian - uber dps
- A monk - average dps

You as party leader need someone to buff the party do you take:

- A monk who can buff the party for 1 minute
- A sorc/wiz or bard who can buff the party for 20 minutes+ per cast


You as party leader need a healer who do you take:

- A cleric who can..HEAL
- A favoured soul WHO CAN HEAL
- A monk who can put out a mass cure light wounds spell every so often

Monks are now once again the laughing stock of the game, a "balanced" toon doesn't bring anything to a party at higher levels.

Look, if you didnt realize what a monk was when you rolled it, no ammount of QQ will save you.

ALSO: The moment i saw that 11 min shroud with tons of monks i knew a nerf was coming. :p

[Desteria]

I agree teh save is ok i guess though not needed imo, but the change to neg damage means it will no longer effect a TON of mobs where it was realllllllly usefull because they cant be crited, undead/constructs, also a simple deathward now blocks it and thats le sucky.

[Desteria]

I'm kind of torn on this. I agree with those saying it's too powerful when you get it, very few classes (or none?) can one-shot a red name at these levels like a dark monk can. However, as you go up and enemies have more HP it balances out and ToD helps keep monks competitve as DPS toons. And most people are spending the majority of their time at the higher levels, not in level 9-12 quests.

I'll aGREE THAT AT LEVEL 9 THIS ABILITY IS INSAINE!!! when i Tred and went dark is was SHOCKED it was a level 9 ap... maby rahter then nerf it so much moive itsl levle u a bit and kepe the untyped damage.

[zebidos]

I think (or, rather, I'm afraid) it's because DDO boils down to nothing but DPS in the minds of many or most players. Monk is a melee class, regardless of what else it can do, and people looking to fill groups are wanting melee toons that can dish out the damage. With our main weapon taking such a huge hit in effectiveness, why wouldn't group leaders just fill that slot with another fighter or barb?


Exactly.

It IS ALL ABOUT DPS.

Monks are melee.

At higher levels without TOD monks are not as useful in melee and pretty **** without it. Simple as that.

This is not p&p, this is a kill this or be killed game with three straight forward roles:

Melee
Healer
Buffer/caster

Yes I know that is a over simplification but it is true like it or not. It is how the game is designed. If they had more missions where monk strengths were required such as evasion, saves and its 1 minute buffs then I would change my mind. Right now monks are there to fight, monks are not casters or healers.

Monk DPS at higher levels is not great, even with the best gear.

[SINIBYTE]

That alone is reason to consider a nerf on it.

Yeh, 500 damage is extremely overpowered, right? In fact dark monks have been so overpowered people actually gave up playing barbs, fighters, rangers, rogues...

All they had to do was fix the multiproccing bug. Instead they triple nerf it. Anyone advocating and cheering this nerf is simply jealous of the newfound monk abilities. It's not PVP, it's PVE, we need balance against content, not against other players, and as for engame content, TOD was fine the way it was.

[yams]

Nerfing was needed. The nerf chosen, however, is puzzling. Leave it as is but push it back to level 15 and remove the multiple procs.

[Tarrant]

Please keep Lamannia discussion to the Lamannia forums (http://forums.ddo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=94), thank you.