N00b friendly build request - Bard

[Marlowe221]

Well after all the helpful replies I got in my first thread I made a Rogue (planning to multi-class to Ranger) and started playing the game. I learned a few things:

1. Melee combat is tons of fun in this game - more fun to me than any other MMO I've played
2. I don't particularly like TWF. It's not the hit rate. It's the finding two weapons, keeping two weapons up to date, repairing two weapons, and so on.
3. Buffs are fun! I had a couple measly buffs from enhancements that I could activate for short periods of time for tougher fights and really enjoyed using them.
4. Traps are cool but you guys were right: they are not a huge part of the game. They are a cool part of the game, just not a huge part.

All of this has lead me to... Bard. I did a LOT of reading on the Bard forum and the Wiki and I am a bit confused. There seems to be a lot of debate about whether to stay pure or multi-class a melee (warchanter) Bard. Even MORE debate about which splash/splashes (and when) to take them! I found several builds that looked interesting but none that really seemed to fit what I had in mind. Hence the build request.

I would like a Bard (pure or multi) with THF or sword and board (no twf please). Not necessarily interested in offensive casting but CC would be nice since I will be soloing or PUGing most of the time. I don't have to be Macgyver but it would be nice not to set off every trap I come across if possible.

I only have 28 point builds available. Please assume no tomes, lots of $$$, or anything like that. I have no problem with multi-class builds as long as I know what splash to take and when.

If what I'm asking for is impossible and you think I ought to go with the Axesinger, Genghis, or a pure build that's cool too.

Thanks!

[Irinis]

Well, right at the top of this forum is a sticky thread called Revisiting Paths: Builds for new players. There's a Warchanter build in there that sounds like exactly what you're looking for. THF, 18 bard, 1 fighter, 1 barbarian.

You can pick any race but Human is best due to the extra feat and a few other perks.

Just take Maximize instead of Empower Healing and follow that build exactly aside from that.

Your CC will be fascinate on a melee bard, so don't worry about CC spells.

For a bard that does traps, one of the better builds is Axesinger, google will find it. It's 28pt so you don't have to get all fancy but ofc 32pt will let you do more.

[KillEveryone]

Human.

18 Bard/2 Fighter.

Str 16 and CON 17, rest into CHA.

With the fighter splash you will get access to a STR enhancement, 2 extra feats, and a toughness enhancement.

Human you can add 1 point but it has to go into 2 different abilities. Add the extra point into CON and STR. The extra point is needed in CON to open up the last toughness enhancement on human.

All ability level ups into STR.

Feats to take...Toughness, power attack, Weapon Focus Slash, Improved Critical Slash. I don't care for the THF line now that you don't get glancing blows while moving. Not sure what other feats to go to fill in those spots now. I've been playing around but I've also got 32 point so I can add into INT for a couple other feats.

Warchanter Pre. Get whatever enhancements you need for this pre and then max out the damage portion of it. It requires you to take 2 fear resistance enhancements for your songs. This is actually useless since you will get Greater Heroism which gives fear immunity so don't bother taking more than that.

Take all toughness enhancements.

Take Human Versitility. This is a great enhancement. You get 5 enhancements with 1 AP. Max this line out.

Take the Fighter Attack Haste boost. Use that in combination with your Human Versitility Damage enhancement. If you can't hit, hit the Human Versitility Attack boost enhancement. If you still can't hit, turn off Power Attack.

Items will get you your spells that you need. Take 2 CHA enhancements to help a bit if you need it.

You can have decent healing with your spells but your SP pool is going to be small.

You can have decent healing with your scrolls also. I like this option more since it will help you use heal scrolls better and that is the most effective way to keep yourself healed, IMO. I also have human healing amp on my bard and can heal myself very well. Pots don't cut it after you get so many HP and SP will run out fairly quickly so I prefer heal scrolls.

I've tried adding barbarian to my build. Didn't care much for it. Rage is situational and I think the extra fighter will add more than the ability to rage. You also can't cast or use clickies if raged and you would have to dismiss it to be able to cast or scroll a heal.

[Irinis]

KillEveryone, they are increasing the damage of glancing blows while not moving now, though. It might become worth taking at least some of the line again. Especially for situations where you're hemmed in by mobs and CAN'T move, which seems to be happening more lately than I remember.

[Marlowe221]

Irinis,

Thanks for the info! Would the Axesinger work as a human or does it rely on stat boosts, etc provided by being a dwarf?

Could the Revised build path Warchanter be altered to do traps by altering the skill point allocation or is it more complicated than that?

Is being a pure bard bad?

Edit: Don't you lose buffing ability by multi-classing? Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick but I thought the impact on DC was kind of big....

[unbongwah]

Is being a pure bard bad?
It's a question of priorities. Staying pure gets you the capstone, max Inspire Courage, and the most spells. But bards are short on HPs & feats (esp. if you go Warchanter), so a lot of them splash fighter for the extra feat(s). Rogue splashes are popular too just for Evasion, although you can also have trap skills if you have enough INT. Some people also like barbarian splashes for the +10% run speed & 1 or 2 uses of Rage.

For a pure THF bard, take a look at the Classic Rocker (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=249865). For multiclassed bards take a look at Genghis Khan (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=242633) (ftr 2 / barb 2 / bard 16); or you could do a THF version of the Axesinger (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=195289) (dump DEX, put more pts into CON and maybe STR or INT).

[tihocan]

Could the Revised build path Warchanter be altered to do traps by altering the skill point allocation or is it more complicated than that?
It's more complicated because you need to splash Rogue as well, in which case you'd probably want to take 2 levels of Rogue to gain Evasion at the same time. In which case you'd probably also want a high Int and the Insightful Reflex feat, unless you pick a race with which you can get good Dex for cheap (elf / drow / halfling) - though 32 pt build will probably help on such a build.


Is being a pure bard bad?
No, but it makes it more cumbersome in particular because you need to cast Master's Touch on all your DPS weapons (for a THF build).


Edit: Don't you lose buffing ability by multi-classing? Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick but I thought the impact on DC was kind of big....
You lose the L20 last +1 increase to your main buff song (Inspire Courage). DC is a term related to offensive spells, which is tied to your Charisma and not directly to the number of levels in the casting class. Most multiclass warchanters simply give up on offensive spellcasting and thus start with low Cha, and yes, their DC sucks, but it doesn't matter for buffs.

[yams]

I would wait until after we see what the next two tiers of Warchanter bring before deciding on a split. Hopefully it won't be long before Lamannia goes up again. That said, you can't go wrong planning an 18/2 split. I like Rogue for the splash, getting you 1d6 sneak attack damage, a handful of extra skill points, and Evasion.

I typically like Halfling for Bards, but since you will be soloing often the sneak attack lines and Heroic Companion won't get you much. Human is a better choice, then.

18 Bard/2 Rogue
STR 17 (+ all level ups)
DEX 8
CON 16
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 13

Rogue levels at character levels 1,8

Skills: Max Perform, UMD, Balance, Concentration, Haggle. You will have some leftover points; I put 4 into Tumble, 4 into Jump, and the rest of my points went into Open Lock just because it can be situationally useful (and actually buffed to a useful level).

Feats:
1: Toughness
1bonus: Power Attack
3: Extend
6: WF: Slashing
9: Empower Healing
12: IC: Slashing
15: Maximize
18: Whatever. (Second Toughness, SF: UMD, Empower Spell are all viable options)

Spells: (I think these are the "must-haves," you can fill in the rest)
1: Focusing Chant, Master's Touch
2: Blur, Rage
3: Displacement, Haste
4: Freedom of Movement (FoM), Otto's Sphere of Dancing (Disco Ball)
5: Greater Heroism (GH), Mass Cure Light, Mass Suggestion
6: Mass Cure Moderate, Mass Charm

Fascinate will be your best buddy for CC, but I find that throwing a Disco Ball or a Mass Suggestion/Charm on a big group will usually stick a few. Maximized Empowered Mass Cures are an efficient use of SP during group play.

Here's the Character Planner output:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Bard)
Hit Points: 264
Spell Points: 556
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 13
Will: 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 17 22
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 16 16
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 13 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 22
Bluff 1 3
Concentration 5 26
Diplomacy 1 3
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 5 26
Heal -1 -1
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 1 3
Jump 7 10
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock 3 13
Perform n/a 26
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot 3 3
Swim 3 6
Tumble 3 3
Use Magic Device 5 26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery IV




I will also just throw this out there: A party is a bard's best friend. Your buffs, especially Inspire Courage and Inspire Greatness, become more effective as they affect more players.

[Marlowe221]

Ok, all this is starting to make more sense now.

So buffing yourself and others is unrelated to casting spells on mobs. Bard songs are not effected.

But CC effectiveness is impacted by splashes into other classes. Have I got it right?

Sorry but two or three more questions:

1. Can multi-class warchanter Bards still do that spell/song/whatever that makes the mobs fight each other? That sounds like a lot of fun...

2. If you don't take the related feats and don't use Master's Touch, what weapon do you use? Sword and Board?

3. Virtuoso sounds pretty cool but it's hard to find builds for that. Does it suck? Pain to level or something?

Thanks again and sorry to be so much trouble!

[tihocan]

Ok, all this is starting to make more sense now.

So buffing yourself and others is unrelated to casting spells on mobs. Bard songs are not effected.

But CC effectiveness is impacted by splashes into other classes. Have I got it right?
Yes, in the sense that splashing into other classes reduces your spell penetration, which is required to land CC spells at high level. Note that a CC-focused bard would have maxed Cha, Heighten, and both Spell Pen feats besides being pure. A melee-focused warchanter doesn't have room for any of these.


Sorry but two or three more questions:

1. Can multi-class warchanter Bards still do that spell/song/whatever that makes the mobs fight each other? That sounds like a lot of fun...

2. If you don't take the related feats and don't use Master's Touch, what weapon do you use? Sword and Board?

3. Virtuoso sounds pretty cool but it's hard to find builds for that. Does it suck? Pain to level or something?

Thanks again and sorry to be so much trouble!
1. You can still Fascinate monsters effectively (that makes them "sleep", but not attack each other). You do get the Suggestion song and can pick charm spells as well if you want, but those won't be very effective on a warchanter at higher levels, due to the low Cha.

2. If you want to melee, you dual wield rapiers (picking TWF/ITWF/GTWF). Otherwise, you can indeed go S&B with a single rapier, but then don't call yourself a melee bard, because your DPS will be pretty low.

3. Overall the benefits from Virtuoso are less useful than Warchanter or Spellsinger. You can still make a viable Virtuoso though if you want to.

[Rav'n]

[QUOTE=Marlowe221;3277049]

1. Can multi-class warchanter Bards still do that spell/song/whatever that makes the mobs fight each other? That sounds like a lot of fun...

QUOTE]

Early on...yes. Later...? No.

But more importantly, this is really only useful at early stages of the game. In middle/late content, Good Melee characters will kill them faster than they'll kill each other.

[Marlowe221]

Thanks for all the answers folks - I really appreciate it.

So it seems that I have a few choices to make that will dictate quite a bit in the build:

1. Pure or Multi
2. Traps or no traps
3. THF or TWF (with or without feats? Still a little confused about that)

A lot to think about...

[unbongwah]

3. Virtuoso sounds pretty cool but it's hard to find builds for that. Does it suck? Pain to level or something?
I enjoy playing a Virtuoso: you get an improved version of Fascinate (Enthrallment), earlier access to Music of the Dead and MoMakers (for undead & constructs respectively), extra songs, +10% song duration, and bonus to Perform; all at a lower feat cost than WC. The main drawback is at higher levels the Virt's advantages dwindle compared to WC or SS: you rarely have to worry about running out of songs, your Perform skill will be high enough that the Virt boost is negligible, and any bard can pick up MotD & MoM after bard lvl 10 if they take Extra Song IV enh. Which leaves just Enthrallment; and making good use of CC songs tends to take a team effort, or your party may run around unstunning all the mobs you sung motionless. Plus groups tend to be DPS-focused, which means they usually want a WC for the extra boost to Courage.

All that said, I still find Virt to be a fun and effective PrE in the right hands with the right group.

[KillEveryone]

KillEveryone, they are increasing the damage of glancing blows while not moving now, though. It might become worth taking at least some of the line again. Especially for situations where you're hemmed in by mobs and CAN'T move, which seems to be happening more lately than I remember.

I move 90% of the time. Boss fights I may stay in one spot but that also depends upon how mobile that boss is.

Having those feats are not worth it unless you can't get anything else better.

If you move and like to move and are going to move most of the time, those feats are useless.

[voodoogroves]

For a new player and new bard I would ...

(1) Multiclass - likely with Fighter at 2nd level (picking up the 2nd fighter level around 9 or 10). The advantages of a pure build are largely back-loaded (LARGELY) and a one or two level delay in your mid-level abilities isn't crippling for the benefit. With Multiclass you'll also be more capable of DPSing on your own, which it sounds like you want. I'd suggest 2 Fighter.

(2) No traps. To do traps well you have to make sure you've got good at-level or close to it trap gear and if you're new you may find that you lag behind and miss some of the elite traps due to poor gear.

(3) Go THF. It's easier to be meaningful and takes much less feat and attribute investment. Don't be afraid to be opportunistic on your weapons (see the UMD note below) - my first char on Ghallanda was a bard and the ability to use other racial items and/or alignment based items was very handy in finding things for a better price...


No one has said it and I guess it goes without saying but max Use Magical Device and consider tossing a feat into Skill Focus for it (you can retrain it out later if you don't need it any more). Haggle is also handy for an early character as it helps position you well with cash for later characters.

[Marlowe221]

For a new player and new bard I would ...

(1) Multiclass - likely with Fighter at 2nd level (picking up the 2nd fighter level around 9 or 10). The advantages of a pure build are largely back-loaded (LARGELY) and a one or two level delay in your mid-level abilities isn't crippling for the benefit. With Multiclass you'll also be more capable of DPSing on your own, which it sounds like you want. I'd suggest 2 Fighter.

(2) No traps. To do traps well you have to make sure you've got good at-level or close to it trap gear and if you're new you may find that you lag behind and miss some of the elite traps due to poor gear.

(3) Go THF. It's easier to be meaningful and takes much less feat and attribute investment. Don't be afraid to be opportunistic on your weapons (see the UMD note below) - my first char on Ghallanda was a bard and the ability to use other racial items and/or alignment based items was very handy in finding things for a better price...


No one has said it and I guess it goes without saying but max Use Magical Device and consider tossing a feat into Skill Focus for it (you can retrain it out later if you don't need it any more). Haggle is also handy for an early character as it helps position you well with cash for later characters.

Ok let me see if I can do this, please fill in the blanks and/or make corrections:

Human Bard/Fighter 18/2

28 point Build

Str 16
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 10 (or 12)
Cha 16 (or 14)

Skills to max: Perform, UMD, Concentration, Balance, Haggle
Skills to level (possibles): Hide, Move silently, Open Lock, Jump

Feats (no particular order):
Toughness
THF series
Extend
Maximize
Weapon Focus: Slashing


Something like that?

[unbongwah]

Add Power Attack and Improved Crit Slash. High base CHA isn't necessary for a MCed WC; base 12 is ample and less is doable. So something like this:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(2 Fighter \ 18 Bard)
Hit Points: 270
Spell Points: 502
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 10
Will: 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 17 24
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 15 16
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 11 12

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery IV


Emphasis is on melee DPS, buffs, Fascinate DC, and heals. INT 12 gets you 8 skill pts per bard lvl (4 on ftr); that would let you have max Concentration, Perform, UMD, Haggle, Hide, and Move Silently, with the rest into Jump & Balance (or maybe Diplomacy). If you're willing to drop, say, Hide & MS (stealth can be fun but most PUGs won't be patient enough to let you employ it), you could dump-stat INT and put the extra stat pts into, say, STR 18 CHA 12 or CON 16 CHA 13.

[unbongwah]

Revised build to include Warchanter II based on what we know (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3277829&postcount=63). Note I had to add WC II manually as it isn't in the builder yet, but I think I included all the pre-reqs properly.

[Irinis]

Hmm, ungbongwah, what do you think about starting with a slightly higher CHA to get higher UMD for a newer player? Probably wouldn't have the larges to do shroudcrafted chaskills for quite some time, and it's a bit painful to fail healscrolls.

[unbongwah]

Hmm, ungbongwah, what do you think about starting with a slightly higher CHA to get higher UMD for a newer player?
IMHO it's usually not worth boosting a base stat just for the boost to skills - not even something as useful as UMD - when there are so many other ways to boost skills. Especially a human, who can load up on Versatility for +2-5 to skills for 20 secs. No-fail Heal scrolls take UMD 42, IIRC; it takes a while for anyone to hit that, low base CHA or not, especially if they don't have the gear. The build I posted could take Skill Focus UMD instead of a metamagic at low levels; then swap it out later for a meta when it's no longer necessary.

By lvl 15 anyone using that build ought to be able to hit:

18 ranks of UMD
3 Golden Cartouche (Delera's)
3 SF UMD
4 Greater Heroism
1 Focusing Chant
1 Voice of the Master (Delera's)
4 CHA 18 (base 11 + 1 enh + 6 item)
34 base UMD
2-5 human Versatility
36 - 39 short-term UMD

Still not in no-fail range, but within spitting distance and only requires 2 readily available items (GC & VotM) and +6 CHA item. Putting a few extra pts into CHA won't make a big difference to your UMD, but might gimp the char in other areas.

By level cap you will ideally have:

23 ranks of UMD
3 SF UMD
5 Seven Fingered Glove (Titan Awakes)
6 Greensteel item
4 Greater Heroism
1 Focusing Chant
2 Head of Good Fortune (Reaver's Fate)
5 CHA 20 (base 11 + 1 enh + 2 tome + 6 item)
49 base UMD
2-5 Human Versatility
51-54 short-term UMD

Note that you don't need everything listed to still be able to hit 42.

[Marlowe221]

So many good build ideas and so few character slots!

All these builds look great. I haven't rolled a Bard yet because I haven't been able to choose. :)

I am particularly interested in the 18/2 Bard/Fighter builds that have been suggested.

I also like the Classic Rocker, though I might not take Empower Healing. I like the higher Charisma in that build for added spell points (charisma affects how many spell points I have right?)

Do Bard songs use spell points? Or are they a once per "day" kinda thing?

I guess I'll just heal through the traps??

[KillEveryone]

So many good build ideas and so few character slots!

All these builds look great. I haven't rolled a Bard yet because I haven't been able to choose. :)

I am particularly interested in the 18/2 Bard/Fighter builds that have been suggested.

I also like the Classic Rocker, though I might not take Empower Healing. I like the higher Charisma in that build for added spell points (charisma affects how many spell points I have right?)

Do Bard songs use spell points? Or are they a once per "day" kinda thing?

I guess I'll just heal through the traps??

Bard songs are independant of spells.

You need to add into perform skill to get all your song types. For example...to get inspire heroics, you need to also have enough points into perform to be able to gain this particular song which will become available at lvl 15. These points are actual points, not just modified with CHA.

Songs DC are also based upon perform skill, modified. Fascinate has a very high DC and almost nothing will be able to withstand it. Critters pretty much need to roll a 20.

You gain the ability to play another song with each bard level.

Elite traps can kill if you have a small amount of HP...not just from injuries but if you are squishy. Hard traps can also really hurt.

[Marlowe221]

So then... I should multi-class with Rogue so I can make it through the traps since I will likely be soloing a lot?

[Victor_1]

Being able to disarm trap or not, 2 levels of rogue is always good option for bard.
As current capstone is not so useful for everyone.

Talking about traps, however, you might want to consider following things.

1.You may need high INT score to Max all trap-related skill, especially if you want spot as you may not know location of panels in each dungeons.
2.To keep up high INT score, you might want +2 INT tome from DDO store at lv7. Which is not so new-player friendly.
3.You also have to keep update your trap gears. You dont have to get best gear on each odd level, but still.

I believe 12-14 INT is enough to maxing DD/Search with bard related skills for human bard.
But personally, I think you can just forget about traps. You'll get evasion from 2 lvls of rogue anyway.
In that case, dont forget to pump some dex for reflex save.

And I'd recommend Axesinger (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=195289) for anyone who wants to start playing bard.
It is TWF character, but you can just use GreatAxe till you get collections of nice dwarven axes.
But well, it's just another suggestion for you to choose.

Hope it helps.

[unbongwah]

I like the higher Charisma in that build for added spell points (charisma affects how many spell points I have right?)
Yes, but not by much. Raising your base CHA is actually probably the least efficient way of boosting your SPs. Usually boosting your casting stat is about maxing your DCs and the extra SPs is just a free perk; but a lot of bard builds (mine included) skip CC spells entirely to focus on other things, so high base CHA isn't required.

Do Bard songs use spell points? Or are they a once per "day" kinda thing?You get one bard song usage per bard level plus any Extra Song enhs you take. Virtuosos get 3 extra songs free; and the bard capstone gives another 2. So I believe the max possible songs is 29: 20 (bard lvls) + 3 (Virt) + 4 (Extra Song IV) + 2 (capstone).

So then... I should multi-class with Rogue so I can make it through the traps since I will likely be soloing a lot?
Evasion certainly helps, although dump-stating DEX hurts your Reflex save. If you want to also handle traps on a bard / rogue, it's doable, but can be tricky to pull off because of all the skill pts you need.

[unbongwah]

Here's a hastily constructed THF rogue / bard Warchanter trapmonkey:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 16 Bard)
Hit Points: 266
Spell Points: 450
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 12
Will: 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 22
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 15 16
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 12 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 3
Bluff 5 5
Concentration 4 26
Diplomacy 1 1
Disable Device 6 25
Haggle 5 5
Heal -1 -1
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 1 1
Jump 7 10
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock 3 14
Perform n/a 24
Repair 2 2
Search 6 25
Spot 3 19
Swim 3 6
Tumble 3 3
Use Magic Device 5 24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Perform (+6)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+4)


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+6)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery IV

[Marlowe221]

I need more character slots so I can build all these Bards!

I created a toon last night he's (from memory here):

Male Human Bard

Str 17
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 14

I took Toughness and Extend as my first feats. My first enhancement is the one that lets you play your songs more than once per rest.

I took Cure Light Wounds as my first spell. Skills were bumped up as suggested in this thread.

To be honest I am kind of torn between a fighter splash (levels 2 and 9 or 10) or going for the Classic Rocker for this character. Of course it may not make much difference either way. /shrug

I also think I will roll up a Rogue (to be multi classed Bard) to try out that route too.