Power Attack - Worth taking?

[Antheal]

Is it worth getting the Power Attack Feat on a Strength-based Dark Path Halfling Monk?

[Dragavon]

There are two feats EVERY melee character MUST have. Thougness and PA :D

[Kriogen]

You should not even ask that. :eek:

P.S:
This is sarcastic post, right?

[Visty]

do you plan on hitting mobs?
if the answer is yes, then take PA

[Antheal]

I guess with the multiple attacks that a Monk gets with the Flurry of Blows, that +5 damage per hit really begins to add up, right?

[DevilButcher]

you do plan on hitting mobs?
if the answer is yes, then take PA

Fixed that for you in red ;)

[maha0201]

Is it worth getting the Power Attack Feat on a Strength-based Dark Path Halfling Monk?
Do you plan only using shurikens XD ?

[Visty]

Fixed that for you in red ;)

actually, you made it worse cause the "?" doesnt make any sense now

[Jamma]

Is it worth getting the Power Attack Feat on a Strength-based Dark Path Halfling Monk?

by Grabthar's hammer... by the Sons of Warvan.. yes.

[Angellica]

Good character choice btw. I love my Str based Dark Halfling Monk. So much I TRed it for extra fist damage :) And yes, it has Power Attack :)

[Diyon]

Do you plan only using shurikens XD ?

For whatever reason, PA seems to work with thrown weapons.

[mediocresurgeon]

If you hit things in melee, use Power Attack. No exceptions.

[Odin's_Hugin]

My dex/wis monk doesnt have PA. I went and took Combat Expertise instead.

Since you cant have both active at the same time, and since both SHOULD be taken off to hit Epic better, I find it a waste of a feat.

[BlackRage]

My dex/wis monk doesnt have PA. I went and took Combat Expertise instead.

Since you cant have both active at the same time, and since both SHOULD be taken off to hit Epic better, I find it a waste of a feat.

+1
It is so refreshing to hear the voice of reason for a change.

Is PA good? In many situations yes - but as with all stances it is (currently) exclusive and there maybe times that it needs to be deactivated (or it would be decreasing DPS! :eek:)

As such, PA is a melee feat strongly worth considering, but there are sometimes better options.

[Aesop]

yes

[Antheal]

My dex/wis monk doesnt have PA. I went and took Combat Expertise instead.

Since you cant have both active at the same time, and since both SHOULD be taken off to hit Epic better, I find it a waste of a feat.

Is Combat Expertise the one that needs 13 Intelligence to take?

The Halfling I made only has 8 Intelligence, so Combat Expertise isn't an option.

If you were wondering, the Stats and Feats taken by Level 6 are as follows:

15 Strength (Inc. +1 Strength from Character Level 4)
18 Dex
14 Con
08 Int
14 Wis
08 Cha

(1) Toughness
(1) Power Attack
(2) Two Weapon Fighting
(3) Least Dragonmark of Healing
(3) Path of Inevitable Dominion
(6) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
(6) Dodge

At Level 8 I will increase my Strength to 16 and at Level 9 I plan on taking the Greater Dragonmark of Healing.
I've not planned beyond that stage yet, other than expecting to continue with the Two Weapon Fighting Feats for 60% and 80% off-hand chance respectively while putting Level-Up stat points into Strength.

[Odin's_Hugin]

Is Combat Expertise the one that needs 13 Intelligence to take?

The Halfling I made only has 8 Intelligence, so Combat Expertise isn't an option.

If you were wondering, the Stats and Feats taken by Level 6 are as follows:

15 Strength (Inc. +1 Strength from Character Level 4)
18 Dex
14 Con
08 Int
14 Wis
08 Cha

(1) Toughness
(1) Power Attack
(2) Two Weapon Fighting
(3) Least Dragonmark of Healing
(3) Path of Inevitable Dominion
(6) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
(6) Dodge

At Level 8 I will increase my Strength to 16 and at Level 9 I plan on taking the Greater Dragonmark of Healing.
I've not planned beyond that stage yet, other than expecting to continue with the Two Weapon Fighting Feats for 60% and 80% off-hand chance respectively while putting Level-Up stat points into Strength.

Doing a dragonmarked monk? It's very feat-consuming if you get them all. Maybe taking out Power Attack would help on getting more marks. And I dont see Stunning Fist in there... stun is 10x more useful than PA on 99% of the time.

I got combat expertise since I love high AC and the -4 dmg per attack, in my view, isnt that great of dps damage, and I have ToD anyways.

However Im planning into doing my second TR into a Light-path monk, and I'll have both high AC and better survivability on epics and Void Strikes. Sacrificing some DPS, though. But I wont go down easily, heh.

Im kinda farming for a +3 int tome though, so I can start with only 10 int. This life I got CE since I was drow, so I put 12 starting int.

[azrael4h]

actually, you made it worse cause the "?" doesnt make any sense now

Emphasize the 'Do', or add "Don't you" to the end. Makes perfect sense.

Early on, I've found that PA isn't as useful, as you don't have the BAB to cover it. Once you hit 8, you can grab a cheap +5 Handwrap and go to town. Since the +5 will actually give higher average damage than a +1d6 DPS wrap (like flaming, shock, etc), you'll hit for more damage, and not be as affected by the PA penalty. But 5 damage won't make or break a dps build; you just won't hit max dps possible. Also through the game, -5 To-hit can hurt, much more than the +5 damage can help. What does more damage, 1d10 +5 10x or 1d10 20x? There's a lot of DDO before hitting endgame.

I'm not sure Dodge is very useful in the long run, +1 AC to me isn't worth a feat. Maybe if it opened up some enhancements like Toughness does, but then I'm already struggling to find enough AP to fit what I want in. I've made this decision after already taking Dodge, so now I got to grind out for a feat respec. Not a huge issue due to the sheer number of fragments I have available, but still not an enjoyable process. I may just LR instead.

[Zachski]

Emphasize the 'Do', or add "Don't you" to the end. Makes perfect sense.

It was grammatically correct the first time, though.

[Azuarc]

Assuming you do actually miss more than just on a 1, power attack causes you to miss an additional 25% of the time. Going from hitting 95% to 70% is a loss of 26% of your DPS. Do you actually make up that much difference back with a paltry +5 damage?

70 (X+5) = 95 X...25X = 350...as long as your per-hit damage is already above fourteen, power attack is detrimental if it adds completely to your miss rate. That's also ignoring the possibility that you have other on-hit effects that you want to trigger that you would also be weakening.

Now, granted, if you're automatically connecting on everything that isn't a 1, that number goes up. If it adds three miss numbers, then 15X = 400, and you come out ahead if you hit for 26 or less on average. If it only adds one number, then you benefit on average hits under 90. Obviously if your attack bonus at a -5 is still above your opponent's AC, then there's no downside. So there are times when it's good, but it depends on how much you're hitting for and what your die roll needs to be. If you can still hit on a -3, then go for it. But if you need at least a 2 to hit, you might want to look at your damage output since a +5 flaming whatever with a strength of 16+ is probably averaging at least that 14 on a basic attack.

[LawfulGood]

Irrelevant if your target is stunned, and if you're playing your monk correctly (with the exception of red names and immune targets), this is the norm. If your goal is end game epic content, AC is meaningless, making the Combat Expertise gain less useful than Power Attack's +5 damage (especially with the crit damage multiplier for your stunned target).

[byzantinebob]

Since he stated he is a STR based dark monk, it is less likely his AC will be meaningful then if he was a dex/wis monk. (Not impossible, mind you.) CE is nice for some monks but he would do better with PA. He seems to be going down the raw power path.

[Odin's_Hugin]

Irrelevant if your target is stunned, and if you're playing your monk correctly (with the exception of red names and immune targets), this is the norm. If your goal is end game epic content, AC is meaningless, making the Combat Expertise gain less useful than Power Attack's +5 damage (especially with the crit damage multiplier for your stunned target).

Power attack is also useless on epic content, unless you got a bard in your 6-man party. And you are hitting the mobs enough times with PA on to land a stun.

[Antheal]

I'm not sure Dodge is very useful in the long run, +1 AC to me isn't worth a feat. Maybe if it opened up some enhancements like Toughness does, but then I'm already struggling to find enough AP to fit what I want in. I've made this decision after already taking Dodge, so now I got to grind out for a feat respec. Not a huge issue due to the sheer number of fragments I have available, but still not an enjoyable process. I may just LR instead.

The only reason I'm taking Dodge with this character is to unlock the Ninja Spy prestige line.

Being in Fire Stance all the time to build up 50 Ki asap every time I use Touch of Death, my Wisdom will be relatively low, which would make the DC of the Stunning Fist relatively low, too.

[Antheal]

Assuming you do actually miss more than just on a 1, power attack causes you to miss an additional 25% of the time. Going from hitting 95% to 70% is a loss of 26% of your DPS. Do you actually make up that much difference back with a paltry +5 damage?

70 (X+5) = 95 X...25X = 350...as long as your per-hit damage is already above fourteen, power attack is detrimental if it adds completely to your miss rate. That's also ignoring the possibility that you have other on-hit effects that you want to trigger that you would also be weakening.

Now, granted, if you're automatically connecting on everything that isn't a 1, that number goes up. If it adds three miss numbers, then 15X = 400, and you come out ahead if you hit for 26 or less on average. If it only adds one number, then you benefit on average hits under 90. Obviously if your attack bonus at a -5 is still above your opponent's AC, then there's no downside. So there are times when it's good, but it depends on how much you're hitting for and what your die roll needs to be. If you can still hit on a -3, then go for it. But if you need at least a 2 to hit, you might want to look at your damage output since a +5 flaming whatever with a strength of 16+ is probably averaging at least that 14 on a basic attack.


Power attack is also useless on epic content, unless you got a bard in your 6-man party. And you are hitting the mobs enough times with PA on to land a stun.

What if the character wasn't a Halfling two-weapon fist fighter, but a Warforged two-handed quarterstaff user instead, who took all the Power Attack based enhancements as well?

Will I just be wasting my time (and a feat slot) as I'll not be able to hit anything to begin with?

[voodoogroves]

The only reason I'm taking Dodge with this character is to unlock the Ninja Spy prestige line.

Being in Fire Stance all the time to build up 50 Ki asap every time I use Touch of Death, my Wisdom will be relatively low, which would make the DC of the Stunning Fist relatively low, too.

Not as low as you think. Stunning Blow and Stunning Fist are both nice (I have both on my STR warforged monk and love them).

Stunning Fist at 20: 10 base + 10 (half monk) + 10 (stunning 10 wraps) + whatever your WIS mod is = 30+WIS ... if your WIS is 14 and you get a +6 item, that's a 38 DC ... solid ... -1 from fire stance if you're in that
Stunning Blow at 20: 10 base + strength + 10 (stunning 10 wraps) = 20+STR ... with short-term boosts and stances your STR is probably above 30 at 20th ... so you're above a 30 DC on Stunning Blow. STR 14+5 levels + 6 item + 4 stance + a few exceptional, maybe a rage, etc. over 30 is easy enough to achieve

[elujin]

on my str monk i almost always have it on on a dex/wis on i still take it but it depends if its on hitting things is more inportand then doing more base dmg on thos kinds of monks

most for all meele is thoughness pa and improve crit :)

[orakio]

Power attack is also useless on epic content, unless you got a bard in your 6-man party. And you are hitting the mobs enough times with PA on to land a stun.

The prerequisites for power attack are much "cheaper" than combat expertise. Very few monk builds can afford the 13 int requirement due to how many other stats monks need. In the case of a str based halfling monk i would say power attack is very useful on raids and lower level content but doesn't always see use in epics due to mob ac.

If you are going for full dragonmarks it is ok to skip if you are feat starved but is generally pretty nice to have.

[Zombiekenny]

Power attack is also useless on epic content, unless you got a bard in your 6-man party. And you are hitting the mobs enough times with PA on to land a stun.

I've seen this claimed several times in this thread, yet I've never had much issues with this problem. Firstly, epic mobs will often be stunned/held which gives you auto-crit, which is a hell of a lot more damage with power attack than without, and secondly, you can still hit a lot of stuff with PA on without issues.

edit: Also, if you don't only run epics (which few people do honestly, most also run other raids) then the number of potential enemies you can use PA on skyrockets

[Therigar]

My dex/wis monk doesnt have PA. I went and took Combat Expertise instead.

Since you cant have both active at the same time, and since both SHOULD be taken off to hit Epic better, I find it a waste of a feat.

See, that is your problem. Nobody should ever play a DEX based monk. :D

But, even those that do should have PA. Since you aren't doing any real damage anyway with your attacks you need all the help you can get. :eek:

Seriously, even on a DEX/WIS monk shooting for massive AC and using CE on a routine basis you should have PA. You do not need to keep AC maxed out but you do need to boost damage. Chances are you are not pulling aggro in any case (except when soloing) so the AC is really wasted. Help the party out with more damage.

[Therigar]

Assuming you do actually miss more than just on a 1, power attack causes you to miss an additional 25% of the time. Going from hitting 95% to 70% is a loss of 26% of your DPS. Do you actually make up that much difference back with a paltry +5 damage?

70 (X+5) = 95 X...25X = 350...as long as your per-hit damage is already above fourteen, power attack is detrimental if it adds completely to your miss rate. That's also ignoring the possibility that you have other on-hit effects that you want to trigger that you would also be weakening.

Now, granted, if you're automatically connecting on everything that isn't a 1, that number goes up. If it adds three miss numbers, then 15X = 400, and you come out ahead if you hit for 26 or less on average. If it only adds one number, then you benefit on average hits under 90. Obviously if your attack bonus at a -5 is still above your opponent's AC, then there's no downside. So there are times when it's good, but it depends on how much you're hitting for and what your die roll needs to be. If you can still hit on a -3, then go for it. But if you need at least a 2 to hit, you might want to look at your damage output since a +5 flaming whatever with a strength of 16+ is probably averaging at least that 14 on a basic attack.

The issue of when to use PA is separate from the question. Yes, there are times when PA is more harmful than beneficial. That doesn't mean you should avoid taking the feat. It means you should know when to use it and when not to use it.

If you do not take the feat you do not have the option. So, take PA.

Now, @ OP. If you are planning a feat intensive build centered around halfling dragonmarks then you might possibly run into a situation where you would have multiple feats you want but not enough slots for all of them. IMO you still take PA.

Many people consider the dodge/mobility/spring attack line to be unnecessary. Some even consider dodge by itslef to be unnecessary on a halfling (because you get the size bonus). But, even if you were to go with this feat line and the dragonmarks you still have room for both toughness and PA.

Edit: Just saw OP going Ninja Spy so dodge is needed. Leaves 2 feats with toughness, PA, the whole dragonmark line, two-weapon fighting, monk path and IC:blunt. Stunning fist seems a necessity if planning to do epic quests and pretty important even if not. So, what else would you want? The list, IMO, gets pretty small.

[Karlak]

do you plan on hitting mobs?

do you plan on -hurting- mobs?

Heh, couldn't resist :-)

Anyway, I'll add a small tip: power attack can be very useful against DR.
Consider hitting something with DR 10.
10 hits doing 11 damage will only hurt for 10 points (11-10)*10.
5 hits doing 16 damage will hurt for 30 points (16-10)*5.

[Shyver]

See, that is your problem. Nobody should ever play a DEX based monk. :D

But, even those that do should have PA. Since you aren't doing any real damage anyway with your attacks you need all the help you can get. :eek:

Seriously, even on a DEX/WIS monk shooting for massive AC and using CE on a routine basis you should have PA. You do not need to keep AC maxed out but you do need to boost damage. Chances are you are not pulling aggro in any case (except when soloing) so the AC is really wasted. Help the party out with more damage.

While I disagree that nobody should play a dex based monk. (I love mine (Wis/Dex), but I solo 90% of the time due to my connection) :D

I agree 100% that you should take power attack for the added damage when AC is either unimportant, or not needed. Most, if not all, raid bosses or end fights where healing is going to be guaranteed you are a bigger boon to the group to drop CE and turn on PA.

[richieelias27]

do you plan on -hurting- mobs?

Heh, couldn't resist :-)

Anyway, I'll add a small tip: power attack can be very useful against DR.
Consider hitting something with DR 10.
10 hits doing 11 damage will only hurt for 10 points (11-10)*10.
5 hits doing 16 damage will hurt for 30 points (16-10)*5.

And 1 million hits at 9 damage will be zero damage with zero KI generation. Thats the most important thing to use Power attack for (especially important on Dex based characters). If you have problems getting base damage on something, your DPS tanks significantly.

[Odin's_Hugin]

Not as low as you think. Stunning Blow and Stunning Fist are both nice (I have both on my STR warforged monk and love them).

Stunning Fist at 20: 10 base + 10 (half monk) + 10 (stunning 10 wraps) + whatever your WIS mod is = 30+WIS ... if your WIS is 14 and you get a +6 item, that's a 35 DC ... solid ... -1 from fire stance if you're in that
Stunning Blow at 20: 10 base + strength + 10 (stunning 10 wraps) = 20+STR ... with short-term boosts and stances your STR is probably above 30 at 20th ... so you're above a 30 DC on Stunning Blow. STR 14+5 levels + 6 item + 4 stance + a few exceptional, maybe a rage, etc. over 30 str is easy enough to achieve, what would give you a 30+ stun dc

Your math is off. Corrected it.

Also on note. 35/34 dc is near to useless in Amrath stuff and epics. I have 40+ dc on stunning fist, Wind IV (which gives multiple saves) and I still dont land stun always when doing Amrath Hard and only lands around 50% on Epics (1 of 2 tries).

So yea, go big or go home.


I've seen this claimed several times in this thread, yet I've never had much issues with this problem. Firstly, epic mobs will often be stunned/held which gives you auto-crit, which is a hell of a lot more damage with power attack than without, and secondly, you can still hit a lot of stuff with PA on without issues.

edit: Also, if you don't only run epics (which few people do honestly, most also run other raids) then the number of potential enemies you can use PA on skyrockets

1. Have you actually done long-time Epic quests like Chains of Flame? I doubt you'll see every mob in there Held by mages, since that would drop their SP to 0 in no time (even more since he'll be using heighten and possibly extend). As for "stunned", I guess you're assuming some other person is stunning them for you?! Since you'll have a hard time landing a stun if you cant hit that often. In my oppinion, though, Monks should be the main stunners in this game atm, so I wouldnt trust a barb to keep stunning them for you. Most of his Str-boosts are short-termed and cant really apply for a 1-2 hours epic quest like CoF. Besides you have multiple procs, he doesnt.

2. I find +5 ac to be of hugely more use than +4 damage, thank you. Unless on epics, but then again, read above.


See, that is your problem. Nobody should ever play a DEX based monk. :D

But, even those that do should have PA. Since you aren't doing any real damage anyway with your attacks you need all the help you can get. :eek:

Seriously, even on a DEX/WIS monk shooting for massive AC and using CE on a routine basis you should have PA. You do not need to keep AC maxed out but you do need to boost damage. Chances are you are not pulling aggro in any case (except when soloing) so the AC is really wasted. Help the party out with more damage.

I dont have always to keep AC maxed out? Why would that be? Raids? Low-lv quests?

I find a waste of a feat to put in something I'll be only using on raids for a minium +4 damage on hit that should make an overall no difference at all. If it did, than people would always want "Walk of the Sun" buff, that gives +2 - and they dont.

edit: being dex-based and using Wind IV (not depending on haste) is awesome, tyvm.

[orakio]

You don't need ac if you aren't getting hit however everyone in melee range including tanks needs damage. If a mob is hitins you on a 2+ with CE on then you don't need it on either as the+ 5 damage from power attack would be far superior.

Dex/ wis monks aren't bad but giving advice to a str based monk suggesting they take feats like a dex/ wis monk is bad advice. The player asked about power attack, don't tell him CE is superior when it isn't for his build. AC builds can be potent but when you don't have the gear then the build very quickly becomes weak. For most newer players, i.e. ones that ask if a feat like power attack is good, dps builds are much easier to pull off and more forgiving.

[Wrendd]

Also on note. 35/34 dc is near to useless in Amrath stuff and epics. I have 40+ dc on stunning fist, Wind IV (which gives multiple saves) and I still dont land stun always when doing Amrath Hard and only lands around 50% on Epics (1 of 2 tries).

So yea, go big or go home.

1. Have you actually done long-time Epic quests like Chains of Flame? I doubt you'll see every mob in there Held by mages, since that would drop their SP to 0 in no time (even more since he'll be using heighten and possibly extend). As for "stunned", I guess you're assuming some other person is stunning them for you?! Since you'll have a hard time landing a stun if you cant hit that often. In my oppinion, though, Monks should be the main stunners in this game atm, so I wouldnt trust a barb to keep stunning them for you. Most of his Str-boosts are short-termed and cant really apply for a 1-2 hours epic quest like CoF. Besides you have multiple procs, he doesnt.

2. I find +5 ac to be of hugely more use than +4 damage, thank you. Unless on epics, but then again, read above

I dont have always to keep AC maxed out? Why would that be? Raids? Low-lv quests?

I find a waste of a feat to put in something I'll be only using on raids for a minium +4 damage on hit that should make an overall no difference at all. If it did, than people would always want "Walk of the Sun" buff, that gives +2 - and they dont.

edit: being dex-based and using Wind IV (not depending on haste) is awesome, tyvm.

Apparently we have had vastly different experiences in epics. I often run with a pair of monks, both dark path, that stun the **** out of just about everything that can be stunned. I used to pull out my +10 stunning maul (+2 Holy of Stunning +10) to help stun stuff, then switch back to my primary weapons, but that was not very efficient, and once I noticed how much the monks were stunning things it was down right stupid of me to waste the time stunning what they already stunned.

A monk should have little or no difficulty hitting most of the things in epics (buffed up of course) and a large portion of the mobs should be held anyway. I have done Chains of Flame epic several times, and it is difficult to keep everything there held, but I find tht Chains is the exception and not the rule. Power Attack is an excellent feat for monks to take. And I do mean ANY monk. I could probably make a case for it being more important for a DEX/WIS based monk than a STR based monk, the lower your base damage the more important PA is, IMO. There is a reason that virtually every fighter, barb and pally take PA, and that reason is the same for monks. This game is mostly about doing damage to the mobs we find, and +5 damage =+10 STR, that is a big difference.

[Thriand]

My dex/wis monk doesnt have PA. I went and took Combat Expertise instead.

Since you cant have both active at the same time, and since both SHOULD be taken off to hit Epic better, I find it a waste of a feat.

So lemme get this right, you find power attack to be a waste of a feat because you can't use it in epic, so you took Combat Expertise instead?

Even if you have to turn them off occasionally +5 damage goes a lot further in epic quests than +5 AC, and if you are talking about non-epics then there is pretty much no reason power attack should ever be turned off, especially on a low AC str based character.

[Odin's_Hugin]

You don't need ac if you aren't getting hit however everyone in melee range including tanks needs damage. If a mob is hitins you on a 2+ with CE on then you don't need it on either as the+ 5 damage from power attack would be far superior.

Dex/ wis monks aren't bad but giving advice to a str based monk suggesting they take feats like a dex/ wis monk is bad advice. The player asked about power attack, don't tell him CE is superior when it isn't for his build. AC builds can be potent but when you don't have the gear then the build very quickly becomes weak. For most newer players, i.e. ones that ask if a feat like power attack is good, dps builds are much easier to pull off and more forgiving.

You are right. I said that I got CE since people said, at first page, that Power Attack was a must for ANY monk.

For the OP - get Power Attack.



Apparently we have had vastly different experiences in epics. I often run with a pair of monks, both dark path, that stun the **** out of just about everything that can be stunned. I used to pull out my +10 stunning maul (+2 Holy of Stunning +10) to help stun stuff, then switch back to my primary weapons, but that was not very efficient, and once I noticed how much the monks were stunning things it was down right stupid of me to waste the time stunning what they already stunned.

A monk should have little or no difficulty hitting most of the things in epics (buffed up of course) and a large portion of the mobs should be held anyway. I have done Chains of Flame epic several times, and it is difficult to keep everything there held, but I find tht Chains is the exception and not the rule. Power Attack is an excellent feat for monks to take. And I do mean ANY monk. I could probably make a case for it being more important for a DEX/WIS based monk than a STR based monk, the lower your base damage the more important PA is, IMO. There is a reason that virtually every fighter, barb and pally take PA, and that reason is the same for monks. This game is mostly about doing damage to the mobs we find, and +5 damage =+10 STR, that is a big difference.

Nothing in your experience dismiss mine. Did you ask those Dark stunning monks if they were using Power Attack before the mob was stunned? Did you ask if they were Dex/Wis or Str-based?

Now, if they were Str-based AND they were using Power Attack while hitting, and still having the DC to stun them very often, then your experience might really dismiss mine.

Heck, for all I know, I could actually have been one of those dark monks you saw, since I was dark-monk and dex/wis until two days ago! You should read my post again.

[Odin's_Hugin]

So lemme get this right, you find power attack to be a waste of a feat because you can't use it in epic, so you took Combat Expertise instead?

Even if you have to turn them off occasionally +5 damage goes a lot further in epic quests than +5 AC, and if you are talking about non-epics then there is pretty much no reason power attack should ever be turned off, especially on a low AC str based character.

1. Yes. While I find CE useful almost everywhere, I find PA not worth a feat for my dex/wis monk.

2. It's +4 damage, not +5. On epics, if you're not a Str-based with tons of rage and madstones, then you should turn PA off to help hitting a mob nevertheless, before they are stunned. Again: that is of use to me, not for str-based monks that already have High to-hit AND did not take Weapon Finesse (thus wasting a feat already).

[Therigar]

I dont have always to keep AC maxed out? Why would that be? Raids? Low-lv quests?

I find a waste of a feat to put in something I'll be only using on raids for a minium +4 damage on hit that should make an overall no difference at all. If it did, than people would always want "Walk of the Sun" buff, that gives +2 - and they dont.

edit: being dex-based and using Wind IV (not depending on haste) is awesome, tyvm.

You do not always need max AC because you are not always the target of attacks IF you are playing as part of a group. I do recognize that many people get into a group and then act as if it is a solo adventure. It is not at all uncommon for every melee type to pick out a different target in some vain attempt to solo as many mobs as possible. Maybe the need to lead in the kill count is just too much.

However, as a member of a group if the melees gang up on one target at a time the aggro will be on whichever is doing most damage. Because most encounters involve <10 monsters at once this is not an unrealistic tactic. To the contrary, it is a very good tactic for most of the game. Thus the attacks are likely not headed your way.

True, as a dark monk you might have situational attacks that do massive damage and that probably will get you noticed. But most of the time you are not doing the massive damage. Instead you are just piling on with some benefits from flanking, etc.

A lot of people refer to this as "off tanking" and, while I don't particularly like that term, it does describe the melees that are bringing DPS w/o pulling aggro. Most DEX/WIS monks fit into that category. And, because they are not the target of attacks they don't need the 5 AC that CE gives. They contribute more by increasing their "off tank" damage by 5 points per hit.

[Odin's_Hugin]

You do not always need max AC because you are not always the target of attacks IF you are playing as part of a group. I do recognize that many people get into a group and then act as if it is a solo adventure. It is not at all uncommon for every melee type to pick out a different target in some vain attempt to solo as many mobs as possible. Maybe the need to lead in the kill count is just too much.

However, as a member of a group if the melees gang up on one target at a time the aggro will be on whichever is doing most damage. Because most encounters involve <10 monsters at once this is not an unrealistic tactic. To the contrary, it is a very good tactic for most of the game. Thus the attacks are likely not headed your way.

True, as a dark monk you might have situational attacks that do massive damage and that probably will get you noticed. But most of the time you are not doing the massive damage. Instead you are just piling on with some benefits from flanking, etc.

A lot of people refer to this as "off tanking" and, while I don't particularly like that term, it does describe the melees that are bringing DPS w/o pulling aggro. Most DEX/WIS monks fit into that category. And, because they are not the target of attacks they don't need the 5 AC that CE gives. They contribute more by increasing their "off tank" damage by 5 points per hit.

Interesting point of view. Even so, I find out that Im tanking stuff a lot, being either dark or light. Besides, things like Orthons or barbazus do Area damage to whoever is near them, not only the one in front.

And when there are tons of enemies (like Sins, some point of Genesis, Bastion, etc), you can hardly say that 5 ac is useless, since some of them will attack you instead of the official "tanker", unless he's using intimidate, which I find unlikely in the vast majority of the quests I do.

Also, getting hit less = my healing shield actually works better on healing the points I do lose.

[Therigar]

Well, in your situation then maybe you do need CE on all the time. OTOH, many people run those same quests at much lower ACs w/o problem. I'd be curious as to how that is possible. Maybe you have low HP or lack a fortification item or have some other issue with your monk that causes you to need the AC difference.

And, maybe I've misunderstood the amount of AC you are carrying. When you said you were a DEX/WIS monk I assumed you were running with >75 AC fully buffed and >65 AC w/o buffs but CE on. So, unless you are soloing or not getting party buffs and self buffing you should be at low risk in any case on all of the content you mentioned.