Power Attack

[Sani_Medicor]

At what point can you run with power attack on and consistently hit?

[Ssmooth]

Once you get GH, is usually when I turn on PA, so ~13ish(if pure), or with clickie. Before that, it's usually not neccessary, and on elite, often causes a loss to dps due to misses. If your a Str build, you may be able to turn it on sooner, really depends on your to-hit.

If your missing a lot with it on, evaluate your buffs and don't use it untill it's effective.

[78mackson]

lvl1-20.


Bards simply has the highest average to-hit until the end game breaks in and bards in groups essentially becomes standard.

Checklist:

[ ]Khortos set
[ ]Goggles with +1 to/hit from khortos
[ ]Use THF til atleast lvl12

[Bilger]

As a bard depends on build as smooth said.

It is all a matter of difficulty if playing above your lvl may not be able to use all the time. If playing elite same thing.

You just have to watch how often missing if missing alot then that is a good sign that maybe shouldn't be using.

Around 13 is a good number but even then there are times when PA is not worth it.

[Goldeneye]

GH + Bard Songs + .... to-hit is more dependent on buffs and items then anything else.

Bilger - gratz on the 1000th post!!!!

[Bilger]

Bilger - gratz on the 1000th post!!!!

Thanks didn't even realize only took 4 years to get lol:D

[Valindria]

My check was every few levels or so. I would watch the dice roll looking for a 2. If I could hit on a 2 I left PA on.

[Spoonwelder]

If you aren't vet status then you could use it L1-5 with little impact - remember it only reduces your +to hit by the LESSER of 5 OR your BAB. So with a bard you are only looking at a -1 to -3 for the first 5 levels or so (sorry don't have the BAB table memorized) which is easily offset by insight goggles, angers set and/or +on weapon plus your songs.

I have my bard up to L6 (red headed step child of my toons) and had no problem with hitting anything with PA on and THF. I think I only turned it off for a few bosses.

I would think that based upon the math that I will have problems hitting in the 7-11 range then be fine again after that. So it's a pretty narrow window.

[Cylinwolf]

With a lot of older content it's usually just a matter of remembering to either keep micro buffs (~1 minute clickies) up when you're up against something you're going to miss on a two, and luckily you'll know who those enemies are before you start wailing on them. (Skeletal knights in a lot of quests, etc).

Some quests have ridiculous AC scaling on elite; leveling my warchanter I don't think I had much choice on whether or not to have PA on in a lot of elite quests even when keeping things like Divine Power up.

[78mackson]

My check was every few levels or so. I would watch the dice roll looking for a 2. If I could hit on a 2 I left PA on.

This is false. Especially when dealing with lower level trash that dies from 1-3 swings.

[Valindria]

This is false. Especially when dealing with lower level trash that dies from 1-3 swings.

Not false, it's what I did. It may not be the best method but it's what I did on my build. I didn't take PA until level 6 and probably didnt use full time until ~14. Every build is different and so are the methods of using PA if you have it.

[Zombiekenny]

Not false, it's what I did. It may not be the best method but it's what I did on my build. I didn't take PA until level 6 and probably didnt use full time until ~14. Every build is different and so are the methods of using PA if you have it.
Several reasons its false:
Attack at different points of your chain have different to-hit
You gain a lot of DPS with PA on, so if you add a couple more numbers you miss on, you may still be better off, even not hitting on a two.
Not everything has the same AC.
You will often be buffed to different levels at different points in time.

[Valindria]

My check was every few levels or so


This is false.

I am not saying it's the best way. I never said it was. I just shared what I did with my bard.

I am attacking the use of the word "False". It is not false, that is truthfully what I did with my bad.



Several reasons its not the best way to do it:
Attack at different points of your chain have different to-hit
You gain a lot of DPS with PA on, so if you add a couple more numbers you miss on, you may still be better off, even not hitting on a two.
Not everything has the same AC.
You will often be buffed to different levels at different points in time.

Fixed.

[78mackson]

I am not saying it's the best way. I never said it was. I just shared what I did with my bard.

I am attacking the use of the word "False". It is not false, that is truthfully what I did with my bad.
.

oki, thats fair enough.

I wasnt really aiming at you with my comment... but the oldest myth in the book: if u can't hit on a 2 then don't go PA.

[Darkrok]

If you're on a max-str build using THF you can run it easily from 1-20. You may need to use Divine Power clickies. You'll need to always have your buffs up. You might need to use Destruction or Improved Destruction on selected enemies. But you can run it all the way.

Twf with a high (but not max) str build, especially if off-handing a non-light weapon you'll find yourself turning it off based on the enemy you're facing.

[Noctus]

I usually take it between level 3-6, and then leave it active.

With all the to-hit raising gear now in the game its not very hard to make this possible. Not to mention dungeon scaling.


I even have a max-INT (Base-CON 16) Wizard who often uses a 2HW with Power Attack active when he wants to save SP......:eek:

[Vallelaida]

Just popping in to this thread as I'm making a warchanter bard as well atm, but using TWF rapiers and finesse build. Will I even worry about Power Attack or is that purely for a THF build? Thanks.

[Bilger]

Just popping in to this thread as I'm making a warchanter bard as well atm, but using TWF rapiers and finesse build. Will I even worry about Power Attack or is that purely for a THF build? Thanks.

Yes it will up your damage you will want it for sure and if WC it is a must have to get WC.

[Therigar]

Just popping in to this thread as I'm making a warchanter bard as well atm, but using TWF rapiers and finesse build. Will I even worry about Power Attack or is that purely for a THF build? Thanks.

As you know, PA trades a to-hit bonus for a to-damage bonus. In most cases it is worth having for the additional damage regardless of whether you are a STR or DEX build and irrespective of the weapon choice and fighting style. The only real issue is whether you routinely hit with the lower to-hit number.

That is the main focus of the discussion with some holding that the higher damage justifies the increase in misses and others prefering to hit more often even if giving up the increased damage. I'm pretty sure there is a math that shows the break point for this.

In my ignorance I've always gone with the rule of thumb that if I hit on a 2 w/o PA but miss on a 6 w PA then I'm giving up too much damage. The maths might show that to be wrong, I don't know. Clearly if I'm hitting on 2 w/o PA and still hitting on numbers <6 w PA then I'm at an advantage w PA on (since my real target number is 1 or lower). This is why some players use the concept of 2+ w PA means leave it on always.

To get back to your question, yes, you should still take PA.

[elujin]

on my thf i always used it but on a twf i had problems at the start :)

[78mackson]

on my thf i always used it but on a twf i had problems at the start :)

There should be no problems on a twf character.. since he is not going twf til lvl12 anyway :P