Dwarf Barbs Nerfed????

[Khanyth]

Why do I have a feeling that once half-orc's come in, there'll be a mass exodus of barbs TR'ing from Dwarf to HOrc? There was enough of a reason to stay dwarf vs WF.... but with HO... I just dunno.

Am I wrong or right?

[SaisMatters]

I think your wrong. Dwarves still have the bonus to the axe line, +2 to con, and some nice resistances. I don't think the +2 to strength is that uber as to nerf dwarves and warforged.

[hecate355]

Oh and FVS was the nerf for clerics? :D

[Merlocke]

Why do I have a feeling that once half-orc's come in, there'll be a mass exodus of barbs TR'ing from Dwarf to HOrc? There was enough of a reason to stay dwarf vs WF.... but with HO... I just dunno.

Am I wrong or right?

I think alot of THF dwarf barbs will go half orc, but I doubt many TWF dwarf barbs will want to craft new shroud weapons.

[Phidius]

Having a theoretically-better-option being added is not the same as removing or downgrading existing capabilities.

Not even close.

[underpants]

We will all go half orc because its new and different

[Goldeneye]

In comparison, yes - Dwarves will get worse.
+2 STR base +2 STR AP > Dwarves +2 Axe Damage.

[Forzah]

In comparison, yes - Dwarves will get worse.
+2 STR base +2 STR AP > Dwarves +2 Axe Damage.

The dmg is the same for THF, since dwarven axe damage adds 4 dmg for two handed axes. But of course the plus 2 to all combat DC's is favourable.

[mediocresurgeon]

In comparison, yes - Dwarves will get worse.
+2 STR base +2 STR AP > Dwarves +2 Axe Damage.

The strength enhancements costs more AP than +2 axe damage.

I suspect most people will switch to half-orcs though. And there is a difference between "nerfed" and "outdated." Dwarves will still function just as well as they always have.

The real question is, Half-Orc or Warforged?

[Rusty_Can]

The dmg is the same for THF, since dwarven axe damage adds 4 dmg for two handed axes. But of course the plus 2 to all combat DC's is favourable.

Dwarves (and WF) have racial enhancements to combat maneuvers (up to +3).

[TheDearLeader]

The strength enhancements costs more AP than +2 axe damage.

I suspect most people will switch to half-orcs though. And there is a difference between "nerfed" and "outdated." Dwarves will still function just as well as they always have.

The real question is, Half-Orc or Warforged?


Dwarven Axe Damage II: You gain an additional +1 bonus to damage rolls when using a battleaxe, dwarven axe, handaxe, or throwing axe, bringing the total increase to 2, and an additional +2 bonus to damage rolls when using a greataxe, bringing the total increase to 4.


So... yes, +4 Damage > +4 Strength, assuming that a Dwarf's To-Hit is high enough to guarantee a "hit" on everything above a roll of a Natural 1.
The two Axe Damage enhancements are 2 and 4 AP apiece, meaning that the total cost is 6 AP. I'm assuming Orc Strength 1 and 2 are also going to be a combined total of 6 AP. Same AP amount.
But the Dwarves will also have (Class Level) more hit points than a half-orc with a similar build.
Dwarves also have all their other "neat" little racial things that are behind the scenes that we tend to neglect.


Food for thought.

[AltheaSteelrain]

When pigs fly.

[English_Warrior]

Plus...you really can't discount the love many people have for dwarves....Dwarf has been a staple mmo/rpg/tabletop/book/film (etc etc) fantasy race for so long....half-orcs not-so-much.

My first D&D tabletop character was a dwarf...my first WOW character was a dwarf...my first DDO character was a Dwarf....my Warhammer army was Dwarf... every rpg game I have ever played that had Dwarf as an option: I took it.

I have a special place in my heart for the little guys.

[Forzah]

For THF:
Update 7 will have a change in the glancing blow system (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=274551). Half-orcs and WF get 3 great weapon aptitude enhancements each for improving glancing blow damage. WF has power attack enhancements (+6 dmg, -3hit), dwarf gets axe enhancements (+4 dmg), half-orcs get 4 more strength (+4 dmg) and possibly also power attack enhancements.

The effect of the 'normal' enhancements are all marginal (the difference between Power attack enhancements and dwarven axe enhancements are marginal, when limiting your fighting to just axes). The glancing blow damage will probably make the difference, putting Half-Orcs and WF well ahead of dwarfs.

[Aranticus]

The strength enhancements costs more AP than +2 axe damage.

I suspect most people will switch to half-orcs though. And there is a difference between "nerfed" and "outdated." Dwarves will still function just as well as they always have.

The real question is, Half-Orc or Warforged?

are they out, if we go with current status, stat enhancements cost same as weapon enhancements

[Dylvish]

Its going to come down to what the player prefers I think. For damage vs survivability.

For 2hf:

Damage -> Horc, WF, Dwarf

For TWF:

Damage -> Dwarf, Horc, WF

For Survivability:

Surv -> WF/Dwarf (more or less tied, depending on enemy they are fighting), Horc



So I agree with the above, our beloved dwarves are not going anyplace. Im sure we will see a mad rush of Horc Barbies running around, as they are the new flavor on the menu, but I dont see Dwarves TRing any time soon unless they just want the change.


Half orcs I think in actuality are going to give much heartburn to the local clerics / FVS, as you get 9000 tusk wearing wanna be Conans charging around trying to wade through everything in town, thinking they are invulnerable because they are strong, with no more survivability than the local Human. :)

[Goldeneye]

horcs don't have to deal with the #1 down-side of WF: Healing Penalty
I don't think clerics will mind.... unless they think Fury is actually beneficial to the party

[Abbtheba]

I thought Half orcs were getting an axe enhancement.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3283288&postcount=13

[Slink]

nerfed?
no.

usurped?
yes.


Of course being short -and- fat was never healthy imo anyways. ;)
Enjoy extinction! :)

[Khanyth]

nerfed?
no.

usurped?
yes.


Of course being short -and- fat was never healthy imo anyways. ;)
Enjoy extinction! :)

phat....... spell it right

[Slink]

Its going to come down to what the player prefers I think. For damage vs survivability.

For 2hf:

Damage -> Horc, WF, Dwarf

For TWF:

Damage -> Elf, Dwarf, Horc, WF

For Survivability:

Surv -> WF/Dwarf (more or less tied, depending on enemy they are fighting), Horc



So I agree with the above, our beloved dwarves are not going anyplace. Im sure we will see a mad rush of Horc Barbies running around, as they are the new flavor on the menu, but I dont see Dwarves TRing any time soon unless they just want the change.


Half orcs I think in actuality are going to give much heartburn to the local clerics / FVS, as you get 9000 tusk wearing wanna be Conans charging around trying to wade through everything in town, thinking they are invulnerable because they are strong, with no more survivability than the local Human. :)

Fixed in red.

S.

[kinar]

I will TR my barb...but he will still be dwarf, I want to get rid of my 6 ranger levels in favor of fighter

[Emili]

Dwarven Axe Damage II: You gain an additional +1 bonus to damage rolls when using a battleaxe, dwarven axe, handaxe, or throwing axe, bringing the total increase to 2, and an additional +2 bonus to damage rolls when using a greataxe, bringing the total increase to 4.


So... yes, +4 Damage > +4 Strength, assuming that a Dwarf's To-Hit is high enough to guarantee a "hit" on everything above a roll of a Natural 1.
The two Axe Damage enhancements are 2 and 4 AP apiece, meaning that the total cost is 6 AP. I'm assuming Orc Strength 1 and 2 are also going to be a combined total of 6 AP. Same AP amount.
But the Dwarves will also have (Class Level) more hit points than a half-orc with a similar build.
Dwarves also have all their other "neat" little racial things that are behind the scenes that we tend to neglect.


Food for thought.

Is +2 to hit and +4 damage over a dwarf for what a dwarves pay in ap for axe damage and dwarf con... have not counted the other str plus's they get which I believe total 12 more in full bloom. However I doubt ever h-orc will take them all and opt for other things. Guess would be they'd average bout +5 over a WF and +6 over a dwarf bout average... they stand at 60hp less and most likely average 30-40 hp less because not everyone takes racial toughness IV.

Most Half-orcs I speculate will take Orcish Strength II, Orcish Melee Damage II and Orcish Power Attack III ... total +1 to-hit/+7 (+14 2hf) damage over other races of like build.

[Khanyth]

Now that half orcs have been out for a bit, lemme ask again:



Why do I have a feeling that once half-orc's come in, there'll be a mass exodus of barbs TR'ing from Dwarf to HOrc? There was enough of a reason to stay dwarf vs WF.... but with HO... I just dunno.

Am I wrong or right?

[hooblaboo]

Many people will use HOrc, just because its the "new thing". That does not mean necessarily that dwarf barbarians got nerfed.

[Khanyth]

Many people will use HOrc, just because its the "new thing". That does not mean necessarily that dwarf barbarians got nerfed.

.... and the new enhancements they get