Ritual of Cleansing~bound to Character/bound to account

[~Cereals_Alt]

I was thinking yesterday as I stared at the useless Chaosblade in my barbarians bank how nice it would be to have the ability to pass it off to a toon that could actually use it. My suggestion is that after a certain amount of raid completions a token be offered in the end reward list to cleanse your raid loot so that it is no longer bound to character. When I suggested it to some in my guild they said it may break raid loot. What if the token was only offered on a 50th completion though. I don't know if this mechanic is even possible in the current state of the game. It would be super nice though in transferring gear from a toon that has been TR'd, or one that has had to respec a build in order to fix it. What does the rest of the community think?

[Visty]

no no no no

raid loot is special, it never should go into normal economy

[~Cereals_Alt]

I am not suggesting it go into the economy, I am suggesting that you be able to hand it off to one of your other characters after a certain amount of grind. it would still be bound and not able to be traded to another individual.

[Visty]

still, it will kill raiding for casual players as the power gamers have everything already, just not on the correct char. your suggestion will remove the power gamers from raids

if you have a char who needs a specific item, run raids with him

[SardaSlayer]

Agreed, raid loot should never show up on the AH.

Change Bound to Character to Bound to Account is interesting but may lead to more people hording raid loot. It's bad enough when someone takes a piece because they "plan" to TR and never do. So adding another caveat of "planning" to do 50 runs to cleanse it would only add to this phenomenon.

[Missing_Minds]

No thank you.

It is the same as asking for a mechanic to change "bound and attuned" items that are BtC to become BtA.

[~Cereals_Alt]

Agreed, raid loot should never show up on the AH.

Change Bound to Character to Bound to Account is interesting but may lead to more people hording raid loot. It's bad enough when someone takes a piece because they "plan" to TR and never do. So adding another caveat of "planning" to do 50 runs to cleanse it would only add to this phenomenon.

I thought about the hording problem too, and while it is something that happens already I don't think this would make it any worse. If you were to do a raid back to back as soon as your timer ran out it would take you 56 days to do 20 completions. 112 days for 40 completions. and 140 days for 50. Being able to clean a piece of raid gear after almost 6 months of continuous raiding seems fair and non game breaking IMO.

[Impaqt]

Why would a Chaosblade be useless on a barbarian? Why did you loot it in the first place if it was useless to your build?

[~Cereals_Alt]

Why would a Chaosblade be useless on a barbarian? Why did you loot it in the first place if it was useless to your build?

Because I have been playing this game for 6 years. My barbarian was my very first character I ever created. during that time I used about 10 Syberis dragonshards. At one point in time I tried a Khopesh/Shield Combo on him, at another time I messed around with him to see how much UMD I could get on him. I looted the Chaosblade because back in the day the raid loot system was completely different than it is now. Only one piece of raid loot dropped in the chest and the party leader gave a token to the person the loot was going too. Myself and a Caster friend would shortman the raid every 3 days and subsequently my barbarian ended up with a lot of raid loot from DQ.

[Visty]

snip

it was always 2 items and this game doesnt exist 6 years yet

you really sure on your story?

[Fomori]

raid loot is special
Never understood why doubling the group size and giving a boss monster tons of extra HP and immunities constitutes super special loot consideration. I guess the tossing on a timer so it cannot be immediately repeated is part of it too but you dont have to make that specific to raids either.


it never should go into normal economy
Totally agree that raid loot as it currently is should never be tradable to the community.


still, it will kill raiding for casual players as the power gamers have everything already, just not on the correct char. your suggestion will remove the power gamers from raids.
While I agree that it is 99% true that it would remove power gamers from raids, does it really matter. That statement says that casual players are incapable of completing quests without the power gamers. That is totally false. Power gamers allow easier and faster completions is all. They are not needed for the masses to enjoy or complete content. The end result is simply a massive reduction in 100% guaranteed success runs.

[~Cereals_Alt]

it was always 2 items and this game doesnt exist 6 years yet

you really sure on your story?

I started playing this at the beginning of 2005. It has been almost 6 years. lol

[~Cereals_Alt]

One more thing I would like to add is that not all bound to character equipment in this game is raid loot either. It would be nice to be able to have the opportunity to transfer a piece of equipment after you have already put in the grind to get it in the first place.

[Impaqt]

I started playing this at the beginning of 2005. It has been almost 6 years. lol

Unless you were/are a Dev, I doubt it.

I'm very aware of the old system.

We have respecs and True reincarnations nowadays. If you really want touse it that bad, you have options.

[~Cereals_Alt]

Unless you were/are a Dev, I doubt it.

I'm very aware of the old system.

We have respecs and True reincarnations nowadays. If you really want to use it that bad, you have options.

Ok my bad, I started playing atthe beginning of 2006. Its been so long I forgot.

My reminiscing about the old system was just an explanation as to why my Barb has a Chaosblade. Yes I can reincarnate, and yes I can continue to farm raid loot that I want. I just don't understand how transferring raid gear I have earned to another of my own characters would affect anyone's game play. Is this a worse situation than being able to use all of my Greensteel on a TR at lvl12?

[Visty]

Is this a worse situation than being able to use all of my Greensteel on a TR at lvl12?

yes, because your TR isnt lvl12 forever

the changed raidloot will be at lvl12 forever and trivilialise the content for all your chars, not just for one which needs more xp anyway
and it would reduce the need for TRs

[~Cereals_Alt]

yes, because your TR isnt lvl12 forever

the changed raidloot will be at lvl12 forever and trivilialise the content for all your chars, not just for one which needs more xp anyway
and it would reduce the need for TRs

You make a good point that I didn't consider. I suppose it would make it pointless to run certain raids for the loot, but the xp will always be there. On the other hand if I already have the piece of loot I need from a raid and I am just doing it for xp. I am more willing to hand the same piece off to someone else who needs it. I never take any raid loot in Reavers fate because I have all of it, and I still run the raid frequently just for fun and the chance for tomes.

[Visty]

well, that wasnt really the point i was trying to bring across, but whatever :D

what i was saying is:
imagine a lvl10 char with all the raid loot from velah, titan and queen

do you really think the normal quests are any challenge for that char?
no, they dont. and thats a good thing cause only TRs have that gear at level and those will be capped soon again

with your change though every char will be like a TR which is NOT good

[~Cereals_Alt]

lol, if you read my OP I suggested that there be some sort of grind involved. You can cleanse one piece of Greensteel gear after your 20th completion of the Shroud (ie.. grind). After having played this game for while non of the quests at lvl 10 range are much of a challenge anyway. I understand this doesn't appeal to your play style and I respect that. For those of us that have been playing forever and have more gear than we know what to do with I thought this would be a cool option. Judging from the responses so far though it looks like I was wrong. LOL :)

[mudfud]

well, that wasnt really the point i was trying to bring across, but whatever :D

what i was saying is:
imagine a lvl10 char with all the raid loot from velah, titan and queen

do you really think the normal quests are any challenge for that char?
no, they dont. and thats a good thing cause only TRs have that gear at level and those will be capped soon again

with your change though every char will be like a TR which is NOT good

I won't get in on this topic right now, but when I have more time.
But technically I want to let you know you are incorrect. I have a lvl 4 mule with over 40 raid items back when there was no set lvl required to do velah, reaver raid, titan, demon queen.

And if you ask nicely enough I will get another character slot, activate the mule and link them for you.

[Visty]

I won't get in on this topic right now, but when I have more time.
But technically I want to let you know you are incorrect. I have a lvl 4 mule with over 40 raid items back when there was no set lvl required to do velah, reaver raid, titan, demon queen.

And if you ask nicely enough I will get another character slot, activate the mule and link them for you.

again, that is 1 (in letters: one) char

so im still correct

€dit: not to mention that your char cant use those items anyway

[Impaqt]

I won't get in on this topic right now, but when I have more time.
But technically I want to let you know you are incorrect. I have a lvl 4 mule with over 40 raid items back when there was no set lvl required to do velah, reaver raid, titan, demon queen.

And if you ask nicely enough I will get another character slot, activate the mule and link them for you.

Your example is moot due to the fact that the devs DID indeed change that mechanic.

[mudfud]

again, that is 1 (in letters: one) char

so im still correct

€dit: not to mention that your char cant use those items anyway

If u played back then, you would realize why a lvl 4 would have those items. Those raids back then could be done with 1, 2 or 3 people. So when the other 2 already have that item, why not allow a 3rd to have it.
Or are you suggesting that we simply left the item in the chest since I was too low lvl to use it?
I won't even mention the fact that the items I pulled and put in bank are items i WILL never use either. :p


Your example is moot due to the fact that the devs DID indeed change that mechanic.
It was moot as for the original intent of the original post, but it had everything to do with her post that I quoted.

[Visty]

If u played back then, you would realize why a lvl 4 would have those items. Those raids back then could be done with 1, 2 or 3 people. So when the other 2 already have that item, why not allow a 3rd to have it.
Or are you suggesting that we simply left the item in the chest since I was too low lvl to use it?
I won't even mention the fact that the items I pulled and put in bank are items i WILL never use either. :p


It was moot as for the original intent of the original post, but it had everything to do with her post that I quoted.

*sigh*

its not about the level of that char, its about only 1 char haveing access to it

make raid loot bta and suddenly ALL your chars will have it

and it has nothing to do with my post as you obviously havent understand what i wrote there

[Uska]

NO raid loot should only be for the character that earned it period.

[Thrudh]

I thought about the hording problem too, and while it is something that happens already I don't think this would make it any worse.

It would totally make it worse... No one would ever put up an item for roll again.

[~Cereals_Alt]

if I already have a piece of loot and I can transfer it because I put in the time and effort to cleanse it and now have the ability to pass it off to my other characters why would I not put said item up for roll should I pull it again. I am still trying to understand why raid loot I already have pulled would effect your chances of getting said loot on your own. BTW thanks for the neg rep I have been completely respectful of all opinions.

[Uska]

Ok my bad, I started playing atthe beginning of 2006. Its been so long I forgot.

My reminiscing about the old system was just an explanation as to why my Barb has a Chaosblade. Yes I can reincarnate, and yes I can continue to farm raid loot that I want. I just don't understand how transferring raid gear I have earned to another of my own characters would affect anyone's game play. Is this a worse situation than being able to use all of my Greensteel on a TR at lvl12?

If you could pass raid gear to your other characters no one would ever share I have 14 characters so I would be able to pass a lot of gear before I ever would have to think of passing gear. Now I pass a lot of raid gear and so does a lot of other people it has gone down slightly due to tr's but your idea would completely kill the sharing of raid gear and ranks as once of the worst ideas ever sorry. It has been brought up before if you had searched you might have found it and seen it was just as unpopular that time as it will be this time.

[Uska]

if I already have a piece of loot and I can transfer it because I put in the time and effort to cleanse it and now have the ability to pass it off to my other characters why would I not put said item up for roll should I pull it again. I am still trying to understand why raid loot I already have pulled would effect your chances of getting said loot on your own. BTW thanks for the neg rep I have been completely respectful of all opinions.

Nothing you have said has desereved neg rep and if I wasnt tapped out I would counter it. Your still wrong though but you have said it without being abusive.

[~Cereals_Alt]

Nothing you have said has desereved neg rep and if I wasnt tapped out I would counter it. Your still wrong though but you have said it without being abusive.

Thank you! I would also like to apologize for having the worst idea ever. I never thought to research it because It was an original idea. It was also never my intent to make it easy to transfer raid loot. I realize now that it is something not wanted by the community at large, and I won't try to justify why it would be a good idea in the future.

[Thrudh]

if I already have a piece of loot and I can transfer it because I put in the time and effort to cleanse it and now have the ability to pass it off to my other characters why would I not put said item up for roll should I pull it again. I am still trying to understand why raid loot I already have pulled would effect your chances of getting said loot on your own. BTW thanks for the neg rep I have been completely respectful of all opinions.

Most of us don't already have useless loot in our banks... because we put it up for rolls... You put this change in, and for the next 3 months there be ZERO loot put up for rolls... Once we start seeing duplicates again, there may be rolls, but many people want duplicates... I have two clerics, 4 melee, 2 casters...

Any new player with 1-2 characters will be totally left out compared to those of us with 5+, 10+, 20+ characters. Right now, a new cleric can go into a raid, and have a decent chance of getting raid loot...

A cleric item will come up and the new cleric gets to roll against 1-2 other characters (maybe zero if the other cleric and bard already has the item). Put this in, and even if there IS a roll, he'll have to roll against 10 other players...

Just grind out chaosblades on your other character just like everyone else.

FYI - I didn't neg rep you.

[Impaqt]

if I already have a piece of loot and I can transfer it because I put in the time and effort to cleanse it and now have the ability to pass it off to my other characters why would I not put said item up for roll should I pull it again. I am still trying to understand why raid loot I already have pulled would effect your chances of getting said loot on your own. BTW thanks for the neg rep I have been completely respectful of all opinions.

+1 for ya.

I dont care for the idea, but you have not been disruptive or trollish at all in the thread.

[Uska]

+1 for ya.

I dont care for the idea, but you have not been disruptive or trollish at all in the thread.

good man impact I would have done so had I any left today +1 in spirit for you as well

[Eladiun]

I was thinking yesterday as I stared at the useless Chaosblade in my barbarians bank how nice it would be to have the ability to pass it off to a toon that could actually use it. My suggestion is that after a certain amount of raid completions a token be offered in the end reward list to cleanse your raid loot so that it is no longer bound to character. When I suggested it to some in my guild they said it may break raid loot. What if the token was only offered on a 50th completion though. I don't know if this mechanic is even possible in the current state of the game. It would be super nice though in transferring gear from a toon that has been TR'd, or one that has had to respec a build in order to fix it. What does the rest of the community think?

It wouldn't work because I could just transfer it from character to character whenever I wanted. It breaks the raid mechanic. Grinding is there to keep us rats on the wheel...

[mudfud]

Every change in this game started from an idea. The only thing the OP is doing is throwing an idea out there to start with as a base. Sure it might have been brought up 100x's as others have suggested. Well guess what, that was then this is now, things have changed. If you seriously want to stick by the excuse of it was asked in the past, it was turned down and blasted in the past so dont ever bring it up let me remind each and everyone of you that HALF the changes to game have been brought up more then once already and eventually changed in some way. That's all the OP is asking for.

Now there is some saying that raid loot should be unique or never transferable, but it wasn't just raid loot he was referring to. Pretty much anything that binds.

Then there was the one who claimed there would be no more raiding because powergamers would have all there stuff. In my opinion that is the laziest and most selfish excuse possible. If you want to raid more put the lfm's up and learn the raids, teach the raids, instead of relying on others to do them for you.

I don't know the conditions of raiding on other servers but this is what I see on Sarlona. The so called power gamers who have everything already only raid with said 'raid-loot-aquired characters' within the guild so if a said item falls it gets passed to who needs it. The power gamers who need items will pug those raids in the hope of getting them. Now I'm not all mighty and powerful but there might be a few that do join pugs just for the benefit of passing raid loot to random people the dont even know since they need nothing, but I highly doubt its many.

Then it was brought up that the rolling for raid loot conditions got really horrible after TR. Well guess what, that same thing is going to happen regardless of them allowing an item to be unbound. Don't use unbinding an item as an excuse for it to happen more because seriously, it can't happen anymore then it already does as it does with the whole ' I might TR this toon in 5 years so I'm gonna save it now excuse.'

And then the rest of the people posting only talk about how it will break the game, which I still don't see how. You all are implying that it's going to be an easy thing to do. The idea was thrown out as every 50 raids. That's takes roughly 6 months for 1 stupid item to be unbound. Seriously complaining and saying no because of a person taking 6 months for 1 thing? Since the idea started with 50, ideas change and adapt.
What if a possible adaptation to what the OP was say EVERY 1000 raids TOTAL per character. Someone else can do the math that would be needed to get 1000 raids total per character since I don't see it as game breaking if people put in the time for it.

And lastly it was thrown about that said item could be transfered from character to character. Well here is another change or adaptation to what the OP was saying. Instead of making the bound to character item bound to account, make the ritual for whatever amount of raids bound to account AND bound on equip. That way it won't break said raid mechanics since once that item was swapped and equipped it would bind to character again.

Every idea starts some place and to say no like most of you have been saying is simple minded. Do you really want to be thought of like that?

I remember before EPICS even came out how people cried and cried about how EPICS would be so bad and it shouldn't be done. I remember ideas for stuff was being thrown around and it started and changed from an idea.

I remember when EPIC tokens were bind to character for the people thinking that only said character who did the dungeon should get the items, but that was changed to bind to account. EPIC items are alot better then nearly any item we currently have ingame but that was changed, but you all are basically trashing his idea and refusing to even accept it or suggest changes to make it work.

If people were so afraid to ask for change this game would be nothing. But the original poster had the guts to ask and suggest something to try and get the basis for a change. This game has adapted for nearly 5 years why stop it now because you are getting complacent in how things are now.

With that mentality, nothing new should be released, no druids, no prestige for classes that don't have them all because a few of you disagree with them. Heck maybe even we should go back to how the game was when it was released. 2 raid tokens for 2 items in chest that the leader gets to pass out. Or maybe even roll back the level cap to maximum 10. Oh and don't forget casual since normal was obviously too hard and people wanted something easier, lets remove that also.

[Visty]

snip

i highly doubt you have read all the posts in this thread

you might not see it as broken, but it is
every char running around with SoS, torc, dq chain and chattering ring at lvl11 is just way to overpowered

so instead of posting a wall of text of which 70% isnt even related to the topic, why not try to understand what was written already?

[mudfud]

i highly doubt you have read all the posts in this thread

you might not see it as broken, but it is
every char running around with SoS, torc, dq chain and chattering ring at lvl11 is just way to overpowered

so instead of posting a wall of text of which 70% isnt even related to the topic, why not try to understand what was written already?

I clearly understand what's written and have read each post.

As far as your newest comment it fails to reach the standards needed for a suggestion post. Oh wait, I get it, you want to be like everyone else in all the suggestion threads that just say no, won't work. Be original and try this. Come up with a reason or suggest a change that could help it work. Break the trend it has to start somewhere and some time.

How does every character running around with an Sos, torc, dq chain and chattering ring at lvl 11 effect you and your gameplay? How about explain that. You are so worried about what others have and want instead of focusing on suggesting ways to make this work like I am trying to do. If you don't think it won't work I think we all get the idea, but coming in with your "no it won't work", is in no way suggesting ways to make it work. If I feel I need to quote for example all 8000 of your posts to get my point through thats what I would do if needed. So if you are bothered by a wall of text that I wrote to try and make something like this work, then maybe it's time you to troll a different thread that will accept your, "no it won't work."

[khaldan]

I clearly understand what's written and have read each post. For the slow person that keeps responding to me in the negative way I can quote each of her posts and show where what I said corresponds to what she is saying.

As far as your newest comment it fails to reach the standards needed for a suggestion post. Oh wait, I get it, you want to be like everyone else in all the suggestion threads that just say no, won't work. Be original and try this. Come up with a reason or suggest a change that could help it work. Break the trend it has to start somewhere and some time.

How does every character running around with an Sos, torc, dq chain and chattering ring at lvl 11 effect you and your gameplay? How about explain that. You are so worried about what others have and want instead of focusing on suggesting ways to make this work like I am trying to do. If you don't think it won't work I think we all get the idea, but coming in with your "no it won't work", is in no way suggesting ways to make it work. If I feel I need to quote for example all 8000 of your posts to get my point through thats what I would do if needed.

There's already posts about how greensteel and TRs are ruining the game for people. Currently, you can just say 'no TRs' and get rid of most of that, under this system, after I get 1 SoS, suddenly every single melee character, TR or not, will have one. And there's no way around it after this.

[mudfud]

There's already posts about how greensteel and TRs are ruining the game for people. Currently, you can just say 'no TRs' and get rid of most of that, under this system, after I get 1 SoS, suddenly every single melee character, TR or not, will have one. And there's no way around it after this.

That's why i suggested changes to what the original poster suggested. Instead of his suggested 50 raids, I suggested 1000. That's why instead of his suggested bind to character turning into bound to account, I suggested it turn into bind to account/bind to character upon equip.
Every idea starts somewhere as I already stated. If a person wants to put the time into getting 1000 raids just to swap a bound to character item they should be allowed that same chance that people get running epics and so forth.

[khaldan]

That's why i suggested changes to what the original poster suggested. Instead of his suggested 50 raids, I suggested 1000. That's why instead of his suggested bind to character turning into bound to account, I suggested it turn into bind to account/bind to character upon equip.
Every idea starts somewhere as I already stated. If a person wants to put the time into getting 1000 raids just to swap a bound to character item they should be allowed that same chance that people get running epics and so forth.

Considering that 'the tide turns' is now considered a raid completion, I doubt this would work well. That and 1000 raid completions is a few years of running raids every 3 days on the same character, it would be a ton faster to just get it on another character.

And it's still overpowered.

[Doomcrew]

I clearly understand what's written and have read each post. For the slow person that keeps responding to me in the negative way I can quote each of her posts and show where what I said corresponds to what she is saying.

As far as your newest comment it fails to reach the standards needed for a suggestion post. Oh wait, I get it, you want to be like everyone else in all the suggestion threads that just say no, won't work. Be original and try this. Come up with a reason or suggest a change that could help it work. Break the trend it has to start somewhere and some time.

How does every character running around with an Sos, torc, dq chain and chattering ring at lvl 11 effect you and your gameplay? How about explain that. You are so worried about what others have and want instead of focusing on suggesting ways to make this work like I am trying to do. If you don't think it won't work I think we all get the idea, but coming in with your "no it won't work", is in no way suggesting ways to make it work. If I feel I need to quote for example all 8000 of your posts to get my point through thats what I would do if needed. So if you are bothered by a wall of text that I wrote to try and make something like this work, then maybe it's time you to troll a different thread that will accept your, "no it won't work."


If one doesn't agree with a concept, why would one make suggestions as to better the concept?

Bad idea, move along, there will be another one shortly...


Cheers

[Waukeen]

no.

(coming from someone who has a barbarian with 3 essences rotting because I always get all +2s)

on the bright side number 100 is only 4 away :D

my reasons are the same (paraphrase) raid loot always BtC blah blah...

[mudfud]

Considering that 'the tide turns' is now considered a raid completion, I doubt this would work well. That and 1000 raid completions is a few years of running raids every 3 days on the same character, it would be a ton faster to just get it on another character.

And it's still overpowered.

And that's my point. It would take a few years to do. And in that time yes it's true items can be gotten on other characters toons, especially with the addition of 20 raids you get the pick of the list. But if a person is willing to do that reward them for it also.


my reasons are the same (paraphrase) raid loot always BtC blah blah...

That's obviously no longer true. Look at the change to Dreamspitter. This should be no different. Everything in this game is a grind, back when the cap was lvl 10, to when it was made lvl 20. Reward the ones willing to do things like that.

Everyone here keeps forgetting that raid items are not the only bound to character items in this game.




If one doesn't agree with a concept, why would one make suggestions as to better the concept?

Bad idea, move along, there will be another one shortly...


Cheers

Because the simple fact this is a suggestion forum, for suggestions. When a person comes and posts, "no, bad idea" that in no way suggests anything. Sure it means you don't agree with the concept. Then move along as you suggested and there will be more bad ideas for that same person to reply that way to. But for someone to break the normalcy of just saying "no, bad idea", change that and suggest a way to make it work no matter how hard that might be.

[khaldan]

And that's my point. It would take a few years to do. And in that time yes it's true items can be gotten on other characters toons, especially with the addition of 20 raids you get the pick of the list. But if a person is willing to do that reward them for it also.

Look at the changes that ioun stones have gone through. Look at the change to Dreamspitter. This should be no different. Everything in this game is a grind, back when the cap was lvl 10, to when it was made lvl 20. Reward the ones willing to do things like that.

Everyone here keeps forgetting that raid items are not the only bound to character items in this game.

They aren't, but no one's going to transfer anything else. Name a piece of nonraid gear that's as game changing as the SoS or titan gloves,.

[mudfud]

They aren't, but no one's going to transfer anything else. Name a piece of nonraid gear that's as game changing as the SoS or titan gloves,.

Again thats the point. Everyone here is assuming it's going to be raid gear. Me personally I would love for my fighter to be able to pass along his mysterious bauble to a future caster of mine that doesn't have one. I could also name other items I have that isn't raid gear that I would love to change also.

[khaldan]

Again thats the point. Everyone here is assuming it's going to be raid gear. Me personally I would love for my fighter to be able to pass along his mysterious bauble to a future caster of mine that doesn't have one. I could also name other items I have that isn't raid gear that I would love to change also.

If you're really unlucky, you can get a bauble in about a month of ransacks, quicker if you're willing to buy it.

And 1 major mnemonic a rest isn't nearly as huge a game changer as SoS or titan gloves are. Have you used either of them?

[QuantumFX]

I really wouldn’t mind a Token that makes the Item “Bound to Account” and “Binds to Character on Equip”

[mudfud]

If you're really unlucky, you can get a bauble in about a month of ransacks, quicker if you're willing to buy it.

And 1 major mnemonic a rest isn't nearly as huge a game changer as SoS or titan gloves are. Have you used either of them?

And the same goes for SoS and titan gloves. It's all about luck of the drops.
If for example, I'm lvl 10, I go with a group of lvl 20's and SoS drops. By what you are saying that by them giving me the SoS it is gamebreaking and making me over powered since obviously a lvl 10 shouldn't have that item. Yes, I have used both and have multiples of both on all my melee already.
I only used mysterious bauble as an example, but it still goes the same for SoS and titan gloves. How would me or another person having them, and after doing 1000 raids and then choosing to unbind that item making it bind on equip effect you?

[Doomcrew]

And that's my point. It would take a few years to do. And in that time yes it's true items can be gotten on other characters toons, especially with the addition of 20 raids you get the pick of the list. But if a person is willing to do that reward them for it also.



That's obviously no longer true. Look at the change to Dreamspitter. This should be no different. Everything in this game is a grind, back when the cap was lvl 10, to when it was made lvl 20. Reward the ones willing to do things like that.

Everyone here keeps forgetting that raid items are not the only bound to character items in this game.





Because the simple fact this is a suggestion forum, for suggestions. When a person comes and posts, "no, bad idea" that in no way suggests anything. Sure it means you don't agree with the concept. Then move along as you suggested and there will be more bad ideas for that same person to reply that way to. But for someone to break the normalcy of just saying "no, bad idea", change that and suggest a way to make it work no matter how hard that might be.

Once again, if some one presents an idea or concept that another doesn't agree with, the other
isn't required to advance said idea, whether good or bad. Hopefully they explain their reasons, but
are in no way responsible to improve another's idea.

[khaldan]

And the same goes for SoS and titan gloves. It's all about luck of the drops.
If for example, I'm lvl 10, I go with a group of lvl 20's and SoS drops. By what you are saying that by them giving me the SoS it is gamebreaking and making me over powered since obviously a lvl 10 shouldn't have that item. Yes, I have used both and have multiples of both on all my melee already.
I only used mysterious bauble as an example, but it still goes the same for SoS and titan gloves. How would me or another person having them, and after doing 1000 raids and then choosing to unbind that item making it bind on equip effect you?

40 WS runs takes far, far less time than 20 velah/titan runs.

The same way having TRs in the groups affects casuals: It's a huge power gain in the group, and not everyone wants to be able to steamroll each quest.

That, and if you do manage to get a SoS at 10, I'll be impressed. **** thing never drops.

[mudfud]

Once again, if some one presents an idea or concept that another doesn't agree with, the other
isn't required to advance said idea, whether good or bad. Hopefully they explain their reasons, but
are in no way responsible to improve another's idea.

And that's exactly why someone who is just going to troll with "no, bad idea" or "no, I don't like", or "No, it won't work" should go troll elsewhere.
It's not suggesting or helping the suggested thing out further. No that doesn't mean they have to like the person's idea or in no way should they explain why or try to make it better. But by trolling with those thoughts and putting themself into the thread in the first place they should either move along or suggest something helpful. As you originally said, there are other ideas to post there trolling in.

[mudfud]

40 WS runs takes far, far less time than 20 velah/titan runs.

The same way having TRs in the groups affects casuals: It's a huge power gain in the group, and not everyone wants to be able to steamroll each quest.

That, and if you do manage to get a SoS at 10, I'll be impressed. **** thing never drops.

Thats the reason each of us are given the choice to join a group or drop a group
If you play sarlona I'll link you my lvl 8 barb who has an SoS that I can't even use yet. And yes, while my guildmate gave it to me and there were complaints from the other capped melee in group that they should have it more, it in no way effects others but me. While an item might be rare or impossible to get there are more items ingame then just those.

[Visty]

And the same goes for SoS and titan gloves. It's all about luck of the drops.
If for example, I'm lvl 10, I go with a group of lvl 20's and SoS drops. By what you are saying that by them giving me the SoS it is gamebreaking and making me over powered since obviously a lvl 10 shouldn't have that item. Yes, I have used both and have multiples of both on all my melee already.
I only used mysterious bauble as an example, but it still goes the same for SoS and titan gloves. How would me or another person having them, and after doing 1000 raids and then choosing to unbind that item making it bind on equip effect you?

you still havent got it

[Thrudh]

Then it was brought up that the rolling for raid loot conditions got really horrible after TR. Well guess what, that same thing is going to happen regardless of them allowing an item to be unbound. Don't use unbinding an item as an excuse for it to happen more because seriously, it can't happen anymore then it already does as it does with the whole ' I might TR this toon in 5 years so I'm gonna save it now excuse.'

Right now, at least on Thelanis, with TR a reality, good raid loot still gets put up for roll ALL THE TIME... If raid loot could become bound to account, there would be ZERO good raid items put up for roll.

That is a fact. Is it a change we and the game could survive? Sure... But I don't like it... I like the fact that we as a community share loot.

[Thrudh]

How does every character running around with an Sos, torc, dq chain and chattering ring at lvl 11 effect you and your gameplay?

(1) Power creep in many MMOs means new dungeons are designed assuming the characters will have the power items.

(2) Playing with someone who is 2x as powerful as you can be boring... You may think running ahead and soloing a dungeon while a less experienced player tries to find his way is fun for the less experienced player, but you'd be wrong. That's the situation today with TRs... which is already bad...

[Thrudh]

If for example, I'm lvl 10, I go with a group of lvl 20's and SoS drops. By what you are saying that by them giving me the SoS it is gamebreaking and making me over powered since obviously a lvl 10 shouldn't have that item

It's game-breaking when everyone has it... which they would after a change like this.

[Zack77]

While I don't support this, I do have a suggestion that could make it seem more reasonable...

I've thought about something similar to this for awhile, mainly due to guildies always being forced to run specific classes due to needing specific gear for specific toons, and there was that specific(Oh come on, now you KNOW I'm messing with ya! :p) aspect to running raids constantly with one toon, and yet never getting what you want. What I propose is the following:

If you pull raid loot on one toon, cool, its bound to character. You get this token that cereal is talking about, and then wait for what I'm thinking of.

With that token, you can "cleanse" the aspect of the bound to character. The new system is something I like to call "Soul Binding" (And no, it isn't a WoW term, I made sure before I used it). Basically, raid loot becomes attuned to the "Soul" of the character that pulled it (which can also explain that aspect of why you keep it when you reincarnate.) The token cleanses the "Soul Bound" aspect, but only temporarily. This temporarily replaces the Bound to Character, or "Soul Binding", with "Soul Link"(again, checked to make sure this wasn't a WoW term), or Bound to Account. However, here's the catch: An item that is "Soul Linked" becomes "Soul Bound" to the next character that equips it.

In other words, say you pull the chattering ring on your sorcerer, it is attuned to your Sorcerers soul (Oh yay! :rolleyes:) becoming "Soul Bound". Now, however, you don't need to fret, or go "DAMMIT! Why can I never pull this on my Intimitank!" Upon the Xth completion of any raid, you receive a cleansing token similar to the one in the shroud, named differently of course (so as to also avoid confusion [I really need to think of a name for it :D]). Now, with this token, you can remove the "Soul Binding" and create a "Soul Link" and move it over to your intimitank. Once your tank equips the ring, it becomes permanently linked to the intimi's soul.

Now, however, if your sorcerer equips the chattering ring by accident after making the "Soul Link", the ring becomes re-attuned to the soul of the sorcerer. There are no "oopsies" moments, there are no do overs, the only remedy is to get 50 more completions of a raid and get a new token.

If we do something like this, I'm sure it could be more generally accepted. And even though I spent the time to type this out, I still don't feel that this should be something that Turbine does, thus making the game even easier. I mainly put this here for friends of mine.

(P.S. If a similar suggestion was already made in this thread, I apologize, I didn't read through all the pages before doing this :D.)

[Thrudh]

While I don't support this, I do have a suggestion that could make it seem more reasonable...

I've thought about something similar to this for awhile, mainly due to guildies always being forced to run specific classes due to needing specific gear for specific toons, and there was that specific(Oh come on, now you KNOW I'm messing with ya! :p) aspect to running raids constantly with one toon, and yet never getting what you want. What I propose is the following:

If you pull raid loot on one toon, cool, its bound to character. You get this token that cereal is talking about, and then wait for what I'm thinking of.

With that token, you can "cleanse" the aspect of the bound to character. The new system is something I like to call "Soul Binding" (And no, it isn't a WoW term, I made sure before I used it). Basically, raid loot becomes attuned to the "Soul" of the character that pulled it (which can also explain that aspect of why you keep it when you reincarnate.) The token cleanses the "Soul Bound" aspect, but only temporarily. This temporarily replaces the Bound to Character, or "Soul Binding", with "Soul Link"(again, checked to make sure this wasn't a WoW term), or Bound to Account. However, here's the catch: An item that is "Soul Linked" becomes "Soul Bound" to the next character that equips it.

In other words, say you pull the chattering ring on your sorcerer, it is attuned to your Sorcerers soul (Oh yay! :rolleyes:) becoming "Soul Bound". Now, however, you don't need to fret, or go "DAMMIT! Why can I never pull this on my Intimitank!" Upon the Xth completion of any raid, you receive a cleansing token similar to the one in the shroud, named differently of course (so as to also avoid confusion [I really need to think of a name for it :D]). Now, with this token, you can remove the "Soul Binding" and create a "Soul Link" and move it over to your intimitank. Once your tank equips the ring, it becomes permanently linked to the intimi's soul.

Now, however, if your sorcerer equips the chattering ring by accident after making the "Soul Link", the ring becomes re-attuned to the soul of the sorcerer. There are no "oopsies" moments, there are no do overs, the only remedy is to get 50 more completions of a raid and get a new token.

If we do something like this, I'm sure it could be more generally accepted. And even though I spent the time to type this out, I still don't feel that this should be something that Turbine does, thus making the game even easier. I mainly put this here for friends of mine.

(P.S. If a similar suggestion was already made in this thread, I apologize, I didn't read through all the pages before doing this :D.)

Again though... this would drastically reduce the amount of raid loot put up for roll... Normally your sorc would give that chattering ring to a tank in the group, not keep it for himself until you get a cleansing item... Put this change in and most everyone will keep all raid loot for different/future characters.

I like the fact that we share raid loot... I've given away tons of raid loot, and I've received tons... I'd say more than half my raid loot was given to me by other players...

I LIKE that aspect of the game.

[Samiusbot]

I really wouldn’t mind a Token that makes the Item “Bound to Account” and “Binds to Character on Equip”

I see something like this happing sooner then later. I have the feeling that this token will be sold in the store.


Personally I have always liked the idea of making a piece of BtC gear unbound so I could ship it to another one of my PCs.

Not having some kind of system like this just stops me from running raid x once I have the gear/xp from that raid. At least until I have another PC that needs something from that raid. And then I normally only run it an few times until that PC is equipped.

Maybe if the 20th loot list was BtA and Bind on Equip that would be enough to get me to start running some other raids again.

[Zack77]

Again though... this would drastically reduce the amount of raid loot put up for roll... Normally your sorc would give that chattering ring to a tank in the group, not keep it for himself until you get a cleansing item... Put this change in and most everyone will keep all raid loot for different/future characters.

I like the fact that we share raid loot... I've given away tons of raid loot, and I've received tons... I'd say more than half my raid loot was given to me by other players...

I LIKE that aspect of the game.

Yes, well, I did say I don't support my idea, it was mainly posted up for guildies/friends of mine that are frustrated over the current raid loot mechanic, and hated the original mechanic.

[Bufo_Alvarius]

Risia weapons dont make the leveling game easy enough already? /sigh

[Zack77]

Meh, I'm perfectly fine leveling up with my Holy Icyburst X-weapon of Pure Goods... as well as the slew of other elemental burst Icy burst of Pure Good weapons...

[Lorz]

bound to character loot should NEVER be allowed to be moved from that toon. (only sold into destruction on a barkeep).

breaks so many things.

/not signed

[Chette]

If your barbarian didn't want a chaosblade, he shouldn't have looted a chaosblade. If nobody else wanted it, well, to the vendor it goes. I don't support changing raid loot to BTA by any shape form or fashion. There is far to much loot hording going on as it is, and this would only make it worse.

[~Cereals_Alt]

While I don't support this, I do have a suggestion that could make it seem more reasonable...

I've thought about something similar to this for awhile, mainly due to guildies always being forced to run specific classes due to needing specific gear for specific toons, and there was that specific(Oh come on, now you KNOW I'm messing with ya! :p) aspect to running raids constantly with one toon, and yet never getting what you want. What I propose is the following:

If you pull raid loot on one toon, cool, its bound to character. You get this token that cereal is talking about, and then wait for what I'm thinking of.

With that token, you can "cleanse" the aspect of the bound to character. The new system is something I like to call "Soul Binding" (And no, it isn't a WoW term, I made sure before I used it). Basically, raid loot becomes attuned to the "Soul" of the character that pulled it (which can also explain that aspect of why you keep it when you reincarnate.) The token cleanses the "Soul Bound" aspect, but only temporarily. This temporarily replaces the Bound to Character, or "Soul Binding", with "Soul Link"(again, checked to make sure this wasn't a WoW term), or Bound to Account. However, here's the catch: An item that is "Soul Linked" becomes "Soul Bound" to the next character that equips it.

In other words, say you pull the chattering ring on your sorcerer, it is attuned to your Sorcerers soul (Oh yay! :rolleyes:) becoming "Soul Bound". Now, however, you don't need to fret, or go "DAMMIT! Why can I never pull this on my Intimitank!" Upon the Xth completion of any raid, you receive a cleansing token similar to the one in the shroud, named differently of course (so as to also avoid confusion [I really need to think of a name for it :D]). Now, with this token, you can remove the "Soul Binding" and create a "Soul Link" and move it over to your intimitank. Once your tank equips the ring, it becomes permanently linked to the intimi's soul.

Now, however, if your sorcerer equips the chattering ring by accident after making the "Soul Link", the ring becomes re-attuned to the soul of the sorcerer. There are no "oopsies" moments, there are no do overs, the only remedy is to get 50 more completions of a raid and get a new token.

If we do something like this, I'm sure it could be more generally accepted. And even though I spent the time to type this out, I still don't feel that this should be something that Turbine does, thus making the game even easier. I mainly put this here for friends of mine.

(P.S. If a similar suggestion was already made in this thread, I apologize, I didn't read through all the pages before doing this :D.)

This is pretty much the same idea I had in the first place. My intention wasn't to free up MY raid gear to whoever I want whenever I want.

MY intention was having the option or some way to move ONE piece of equipment that is unusable on one character to another of my own characters.(Ie.. If my first life on a character is a Sorcerer and I pull a Stormreavers Napkin, or a Mysterious Bauble , then I reincarnate after capping at 20 to a Barbarian those items are now totally worthless to that character. Am I supposed to just vendor trash them if I never want to play a spell caster again?)

With this mechanic in place. I could have an alternate Sorcerer that could get one piece of MY equipment from my Barbarian. Only after my Barbarian completed 50 raids , and acquired the essential token.

Yes I understand that I could take my alternate Sorcerer and farm for whatever piece of equipment that I am wanting to transfer. But if I was able to get it from my Barbarian whom cant use it anymore and already farmed for it, then when I run the quest and have the option for the same piece of equipment I can put it up for roll.

This suggestion was never meant to be a method of taking away gear from anyone else. It was never intended to make low level toons Overpowered. there would still be the same level requirement on the piece of gear you transferred so that toon would have the opportunity to use it if they looted it and me the level requirements anyway.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One last edit

I have bought several hearts of wood of various flavors from the DDO store to fix, respec, or True Reincarnate my characters. I would definitely buy the ability to do this also.

[Thrudh]

(Ie.. If my first life on a character is a Sorcerer and I pull a Stormreavers Napkin, or a Mysterious Bauble , then I reincarnate after capping at 20 to a Barbarian those items are now totally worthless to that character. Am I supposed to just vendor trash them if I never want to play a spell caster again?)

Yes. It's a bad idea to TR from a Sorc to a Barbarian anyway... Why would anyone do that (Except as temporary character on the way to completionist). Pay attention to the past life feats and the gear you have when you TR.


With this mechanic in place. I could have an alternate Sorcerer that could get one piece of MY equipment from my Barbarian. Only after my Barbarian completed 50 raids , and acquired the essential token.

Yes I understand that I could take my alternate Sorcerer and farm for whatever piece of equipment that I am wanting to transfer. But if I was able to get it from my Barbarian whom cant use it anymore and already farmed for it, then when I run the quest and have the option for the same piece of equipment I can put it up for roll.

You don't understand... Your suggestion takes care of your existing problem (I have raid gear I can't use!), but opens a huge new meta-gaming aspect...

The moment this got changed, a lot less people will put loot up for roll... because they can use everything... They can even build new characters with that piece of raid loot in mind...

This would completely change the raid-loot mechanic


This suggestion was never meant to be a method of taking away gear from anyone else. It was never intended to make low level toons Overpowered. there would still be the same level requirement on the piece of gear you transferred so that toon would have the opportunity to use it if they looted it and me the level requirements anyway.

Very few people loot raid loot at level... No one is running VoD at 13 and gets Tharnes Goggles at level 13... but that's the min level on those...

Right now, TRs can equip raid loot much earlier than normal... that's one of the reasons they are so overpowered...

You put this change in and a lot more characters will be using raid gear much earlier than normal... It will overpower low level characters...

I understand your idea... You're not thinking through the full consequences of such a change.

[rimble]

It wouldn't work because I could just transfer it from character to character whenever I wanted. It breaks the raid mechanic. Grinding is there to keep us rats on the wheel...

This hypothetical process could change the item to Bound to Account, Bind on Equip.

There are certainly reasons to object to this, but I wouldn't get hung up on this one.

[~Cereals_Alt]

Yes. It's a bad idea to TR from a Sorc to a Barbarian anyway... Why would anyone do that (Except as temporary character on the way to completionist). Pay attention to the past life feats and the gear you have when you TR. If you have been playing this game since the beginning you would understand why. With this logic are you saying if you are going to go for completionist you should not loot any raid gear at all until your final build ?




Very few people loot raid loot at level... No one is running VoD at 13 and gets Tharnes Goggles at level 13... but that's the min level on those...

It hasn't always been that way. Don't forget at one time the level cap was 10, then 12 then 16, and now 20. Gear I got when I was lvl 10,12,16 after farming the **** out of those raids at level still sits in my bank useless.


Right now, TRs can equip raid loot much earlier than normal... that's one of the reasons they are so overpowered...
is it gear that makes you overpowered or the fact that you know how to play the game, and have more stat points. TR's already destroy the low level quests because we know them like the back of our hand. We know mob immunities/weaknesses. Dungeon Layout is memorized. all of this has nothing to do with gear.


You put this change in and a lot more characters will be using raid gear much earlier than normal... It will overpower low level characters...

I understand your idea... You're not thinking through the full consequences of such a change.

I disagree with this plain and simple. It is no different than my TR pulling gear out of the TR Bank and equipping it at level.

[Visty]

I disagree with this plain and simple. It is no different than my TR pulling gear out of the TR Bank and equipping it at level.

with the exception that your TR isnt lvl11 forever
(thought we had that already)

[~Cereals_Alt]

with the exception that your TR isnt lvl11 forever
(thought we had that already)

Whatever toon I transferred gear too would not be level 11 forever either , I am failing to understand your argument.

[khaldan]

I disagree with this plain and simple. It is no different than my TR pulling gear out of the TR Bank and equipping it at level.

How about this: If you could put raid gear into the shared bank, would it be overpowered?

[BlackRage]

i highly doubt you have read all the posts in this thread
so instead of posting a wall of text of which 70% isnt even related to the topic, why not try to understand what was written already?
Regardless whether he read them or not (and at a page and a half I suspect he did - just as I had to to find this terrible excuse for a post), he clearly demonstrates an understanding of the topic that you will never grasp. :(


you might not see it as broken, but it is
every char running around with SoS, torc, dq chain and chattering ring at lvl11 is just way to overpowered
If THIS is your definition of 'overpowered' why are you playing this game? Look up 'broken' and overpowered' since it is clear you have no idea what they actually mean. :rolleyes:

But hey, here is chance to recover somewhat: Make a build that is broken that uses that silly combo of items - good luck!

[BlackRage]

No one is running VoD at 13 and gets Tharnes Goggles at level 13... but that's the min level on those...

Because _Turbine_ changed the entry requirements such that lvl13s CAN NO LONGER participate; however, before this needless nerf, yes people (admittedly probably not you) WERE running VoD at 13. :eek:


If anything the saddest part about this thread is that it has exposed how ****** players whining loud enough cause Turbine to nerf the competent players to 'encourage' us to let puggles tag along as we carry them to completion. The gall to assume that since I am (significantly) better than you means that I _must_ help you out is appalling. For shame! :mad:

[khaldan]

Because _Turbine_ changed the entry requirements such that lvl13s CAN NO LONGER participate; however, before this needless nerf, yes people (admittedly probably not you) WERE running VoD at 13. :eek:


If anything the saddest part about this thread is that it has exposed how ****** players whining loud enough cause Turbine to nerf the competent players to 'encourage' us to let puggles tag along as we carry them to completion. The gall to assume that since I am (significantly) better than you means that I _must_ help you out is appalling. For shame! :mad:

Not passive aggressive at all. And it's not like VoD was hard at 13 either after groups figured out how to take him down.

Going back to an earlier point: If there was no cost to this, and all raid loot was effectively BtA, would it be overpowered?

[~Cereals_Alt]

How about this: If you could put raid gear into the shared bank, would it be overpowered?

I have never once in this thread suggested that you be allowed to put raid gear in your shared bank. I asked for a ritual that allowed for one piece of equipment that is bound to character to be changed to bind to account temporarily therefore allowing you to pass it to another of your own toons which it would then revert back to bind to character again. I also several times in this thread have said that it should involve a grind in order to be able to do it in the first place. A 50raid completion as suggested would take approximately 5 months to complete. I am assuming that the readers of this thread can do the math and figure out that the amount of time I suggested equals 2 pieces of gear being able to be transferred within a years time. This is not going to make anyone overpowered! If there are two pieces of bind to character gear in this game that make a character overpowered please enlighten me

[khaldan]

I have never once in this thread suggested that you be allowed to put raid gear in your shared bank. I asked for a ritual that allowed for one piece of equipment that is bound to character to be changed to bind to account temporarily therefore allowing you to pass it to another of your own toons which it would then revert back to bind to character again. I also several times in this thread have said that it should involve a grind in order to be able to do it in the first place. A 50raid completion as suggested would take approximately 5 months to complete. I am assuming that the readers of this thread can do the math and figure out that the amount of time I suggested equals 2 pieces of gear being able to be transferred within a years time. Hardly Overpowered!

Take away the cost for a minute: Is it overpowered, based solely on the act of moving a piece of raid loot from character to character?

And if it is, why is making you wait 5 months to do it keeping it from being overpowered?

[~Cereals_Alt]

Take away the cost for a minute: Is it overpowered, based solely on the act of moving a piece of raid loot from character to character?

And if it is, why is making you wait 5 months to do it keeping it from being overpowered?

no it is not overpowered being able to move one piece of gear from one toon to another. I do it all the time with my other gear that isn't bind to character. I've been swapping back and forth the same planar gird between 7 characters when they reach lvl9 for years. I suggested the time frame though for the same reason that there is a time frame for cleansing a Greensteel of the taint it has allowing you to wear more than one piece at a time. If it was easy and took no effort it wouldn't be something so awesome!

[Thrudh]

If you have been playing this game since the beginning you would understand why. With this logic are you saying if you are going to go for completionist you should not loot any raid gear at all until your final build ?

If barbarian is a step along the way to completionist, you don't need any raid gear...


is it gear that makes you overpowered or the fact that you know how to play the game, and have more stat points. TR's already destroy the low level quests because we know them like the back of our hand. We know mob immunities/weaknesses. Dungeon Layout is memorized. all of this has nothing to do with gear.

It's gear... I actually rolled a new character recently... He rocks at level 13, but not as much as my TRs do with their two displacement clickables, two haste clickables, +45 hp cloaks, +300 SP goggles, dual Min II khopeshes, Tharnes Goggles, Radiance rapiers, etc. Gear is huge... Don't fool yourself.


I disagree with this plain and simple. It is no different than my TR pulling gear out of the TR Bank and equipping it at level.

I agree... and I think TRs are overpowered... However, at least they have the exp penalty... You make this change and everyone's alts will be overpowered...

[khaldan]

no it is not overpowered being able to move one piece of gear from one toon to another. I do it all the time with my other gear that isn't bind to character. I've been swapping back and forth the same planar gird between 7 characters when they reach lvl9 for years. I suggested the time frame though for the same reason that there is a time frame for cleansing a Greensteel of the taint it has allowing you to wear more than one piece at a time. If it was easy and took no effort it wouldn't be something so awesome!

Getting more gear on the same character by doing a raid multiple times is different than 1 character running a raid and giving another character loot from it. The shroud showed us why this is terribad, and it still makes you do the raid at least once.

[Thrudh]

Because _Turbine_ changed the entry requirements such that lvl13s CAN NO LONGER participate; however, before this needless nerf, yes people (admittedly probably not you) WERE running VoD at 13. :eek:

And were leveled to 14 or 15 or 16 before the goggles dropped... Or did you sit at 13 for 30 days (assuming 10 runs to get goggles)?



If anything the saddest part about this thread is that it has exposed how ****** players whining loud enough cause Turbine to nerf the competent players to 'encourage' us to let puggles tag along as we carry them to completion. The gall to assume that since I am (significantly) better than you means that I _must_ help you out is appalling. For shame! :mad:

I have no idea what you're talking about... You're spouting nonsense... This has nothing to do with piking... Even if every player in the game was a competent strong player, I would be against allowing us to transfer raid loot.

[~Cereals_Alt]

If barbarian is a step along the way to completionist, you don't need any raid gear..

Isn't any character you play a step towards completionist. So because I might decide to TR someday I should just not do any raids or loot any raid gear? What a novel and ludicrous idea!



It's gear... I actually rolled a new character recently... He rocks at level 13, but not as much as my TRs do with their two displacement clickables, two haste clickables, +45 hp cloaks, +300 SP goggles, dual Min II khopeshes, Tharnes Goggles, Radiance rapiers, etc. Gear is huge... Don't fool yourself.


I agree... and I think TRs are overpowered... However, at least they have the exp penalty... You make this change and everyone's alts will be overpowered...

If you took away one piece of equipment from your TR every 5 months how long until he isn't overpowered. This really has nothing to do with the OP and I am tired of seeing how TR's are overpowered in the thread. If you would like to debate that go start your own and quit derailing mine.

[khaldan]

Isn't any character you play a step towards completionist. So because I might decide to TR someday I should just not do any raids or loot any raid gear? What a novel and ludicrous idea!




If you took away one piece of equipment from your TR every 5 months how long until he isn't overpowered. This really has nothing to do with the OP and I am tired of seeing how TR's are overpowered in the thread. If you would like to debate that go start your own and quit derailing mine.

A fairly long time for most TRs(3-4 years), unless you purposefully take out key parts of the build first and don't bother reearning them.

That, and again, Getting more gear by doing a raid on one character is completely different from doing a raid on one character and another character getting gear.

This is why part of why I hate shroud so much.

[~Cereals_Alt]

I am tired of feeding trolls in my thread. So as a final comment I would like to say that I hope the Devs read this and consider what I am asking. I know that it has been said in the past that they try to cater to all of the play styles in the game whether it be the casual gamer , or the power gamer. I respect everything everyone has said in this thread and I understand that some of you feel like it will ruin the game while others may not. I have multiple pieces of raid loot on all of my toons , some of it I use and others have sat in the bank for years. I'll continue to play the game and grind out the raid loot I need to gear my characters properly. After playing the game for 5 years you get a lot of loot it's a shame that some of it wont ever be used again. Several times in the thread it was stated that there is concern that people will horde raid gear if this is implemented. After reading all of the comments Ive realized that my best bet is to follow the trend and horde every piece of loot I ever pull because even though the loot I have already is usable today. It might not be so useful later on. But that torque on my monk might come in handy one day!

[hurricane333]

All I have to say is Enter the Ninja Looters. Bad idea.


I was thinking yesterday as I stared at the useless Chaosblade in my barbarians bank how nice it would be to have the ability to pass it off to a toon that could actually use it. My suggestion is that after a certain amount of raid completions a token be offered in the end reward list to cleanse your raid loot so that it is no longer bound to character. When I suggested it to some in my guild they said it may break raid loot. What if the token was only offered on a 50th completion though. I don't know if this mechanic is even possible in the current state of the game. It would be super nice though in transferring gear from a toon that has been TR'd, or one that has had to respec a build in order to fix it. What does the rest of the community think?

[khaldan]

So, no real change, aside from you becoming one of the people who rolls on stuff because 'I might TR sometime'?

Still haven't answered whether or not making all raid loot effectively BtA would be overpowered either, so I wouldn't blame the trolls here.

[Thrudh]

Isn't any character you play a step towards completionist.

No. Very few people will ever get completionist. It's an extremely inefficient goal unless you are insanely dedicated to this game... After getting completionist, such people will still need to grind out 10+ more TRs or they will be overshadowed by people who TRed smarter.


So because I might decide to TR someday I should just not do any raids or loot any raid gear? What a novel and ludicrous idea!

People working towards completionist are not doing doing 20 completions of the raids and looking for loot for a build that will disappear as soon as they make 20...

You will loot gear that will work for your final build... Only an idiot would TR a sorc into a barbarian unless they are going for completionist, and therefore they will be a barbarian for a relatively short amount of time...



If you took away one piece of equipment from your TR every 5 months how long until he isn't overpowered. This really has nothing to do with the OP and I am tired of seeing how TR's are overpowered in the thread. If you would like to debate that go start your own and quit derailing mine.

Fine, quit talking about overpowering TRs and/or alts... It's still a bad idea because if people can transfer raid loot they won't put it up for roll.. They will save it for their other character. This will be bad for the game...

Grind some more raids if you want raid loot that matches your character.

[Thrudh]

I am tired of feeding trolls in my thread. So as a final comment I would like to say that I hope the Devs read this and consider what I am asking. I know that it has been said in the past that they try to cater to all of the play styles in the game whether it be the casual gamer , or the power gamer. I respect everything everyone has said in this thread and I understand that some of you feel like it will ruin the game while others may not. I have multiple pieces of raid loot on all of my toons , some of it I use and others have sat in the bank for years. I'll continue to play the game and grind out the raid loot I need to gear my characters properly. After playing the game for 5 years you get a lot of loot it's a shame that some of it wont ever be used again. Several times in the thread it was stated that there is concern that people will horde raid gear if this is implemented. After reading all of the comments Ive realized that my best bet is to follow the trend and horde every piece of loot I ever pull because even though the loot I have already is usable today. It might not be so useful later on. But that torque on my monk might come in handy one day!

That's fine... I'll keep putting raid loot I don't need up for a roll and making the game more enjoyable for everyone... You can keep wasting bank space, and get on a few blacklists...

Fine by me.

At least we see your true colors now.

[sirdanile]

What if after a 50th completion of the raid where the raid loot dropped from you get the option of either an appropriate tome or the cleansing ritual ingrediant, I figure it becomes both bta and bte, you can transfer it to one character that needs it and then it's stuck on that character permanently.

I'm nto against this but it would take careful consideration before being implemented.

[mudfud]

So, no real change, aside from you becoming one of the people who rolls on stuff because 'I might TR sometime'?

Still haven't answered whether or not making all raid loot effectively BtA would be overpowered either, so I wouldn't blame the trolls here.

If someone gets a raid item in there name, it is there choice whether to pass it along for roll or keep it. Whether they can use it or not. You can't use the TR excuse since that was used before TR's even came out, before raid changes to loot were even made. That old excuse of "i might not get a piece of loot assigned to another person" is old.

I don't see why you are complaining about him not answering or seeing your question, but that reminds me that you are still dodging mine. I'll repost here so you don't have to go look for it.

Lets say I am somehow overpowered. How does that effect you?
Just in case you are too scared to answer it because of all your other posts about it, I will answer it for you.

It in no way effects you. You choose what lfm's to join. You choose to group with people.

So really do tell now why this bothers you so much. You can't possibly actually be telling me that you play ddo because you worry about what others do in there ddo time?


Besides shroud crafted item there are less then 20 pieces of raid loot that you CANNOT get before you at lvl unless you are a TR. Those few being from the VoD raid and HoX raid. If you are so worried about thos 20 pieces of raid loot make a suggestion thread to either raise the min lvl of those items or lower the min required lvl for the raid.

With the possibility of 200+ other raid items and another 200+ non raid bound items, with the possibility of binding EVERY ITEM ingame with the stone of change, it's time to start looking at a bigger picture.

With turbine doing this ALREADY to the dreamspitter it's time to find a new complaint. Or here I will even start the argument for you. Dreamspitter is too overpowered. With it ALREADY being bound to account and +5 AND Greater Evil Outsider Bane and the FACT that the suppressed power becomes holy it is way too overpowered. Oh wait there's more. With Shintao Monk 3 prestige class being BYPASS SILVER DR, that makes that even more overpowered. Now with what I just posted go make your own threads and complain about your SoS and other overpowered items there. This is about making 1 possible item bound to account/equip after 2 years of grinding (1000 raids), the i can't get raid loot passed to me argument is last year.

[Bloodhaven]

I see something like this happing sooner then later. I have the feeling that this token will be sold in the store.


Personally I have always liked the idea of making a piece of BtC gear unbound so I could ship it to another one of my PCs.

Not having some kind of system like this just stops me from running raid x once I have the gear/xp from that raid. At least until I have another PC that needs something from that raid. And then I normally only run it an few times until that PC is equipped.

Maybe if the 20th loot list was BtA and Bind on Equip that would be enough to get me to start running some other raids again.


This.

[Bloodhaven]

The 20th run loot list is where I can see items being BTA.


The "it is over powered" logic is flawed. TR's already have all the loot at level. This will not Break the game. This will not cause people to loot every piece of raid loot.

I remember when the TR debate was going strong and it had the same arguments.


People will still put things up for roll, last week I put a Dreamspitter up for roll.

[Thrudh]

Right now, at least on Thelanis, with TR a reality, good raid loot still gets put up for roll ALL THE TIME... If raid loot could become bound to account, there would be ZERO good raid items put up for roll.

That is a fact. Is it a change we and the game could survive? Sure... But I don't like it... I like the fact that we as a community share loot.

Okay, I've made a couple of rude comments in this thread... but this? I get neg rep for this?? I talk about how generous people are on Thelanis, how nice it is that we all share loot, and how I don't want that to change?

And that's what you neg me on??

[Zack77]

You know, I really don't understand most of you. Your arguments about why this would be game breaking and why it would be overpowered is "you can run one raid for loot and give it to another toon", or the TR argument. I'm going to be as detailed and specific as possible as I try to explain this.

TR's are overpowered. That's just the way it is. The mere fact that they have access to gear from a previous life at its minimum level is indeed very powerful, due to raid items being extremely powerful even at cap. However, your reasoning for this part is "They're not forever." While that's all fine and dandy, the fact that they can use it at the minimum level, regardless of how long they stay at that level, is overpowering.

Now, here is where it gets tricky so please, follow closely.

This system, especially the one I designed, does talk of being overpowered. However, most of you that are against it seem to be missing a lot of the most basic points: It is about as game breaking as TRing is.

You all scream "OMG, this will mean people will put loot up for roll less! People will horde raid loot!!" So what? Unless you belong to the "OMG, you can't use that item/I can use it better, you better put it up for roll/give it to me" camp, it shouldn't even bother you in the slightest. People will horde raid loot, that is a given. Raid loot is like any other piece of equipment in the game. People will horde things that they pull, even if they can't use it, or if they have another toon to use it. Just because that specific toon can't use it, its still THEIR **** LOOT. Get over yourselves!

With this system implemented, people will probably horde raid loot as much, if not more, than they do so now. Again, unless you belong to the previously stated selfish camp, what does it matter? They pulled the loot, they can do what they please with it, even if that means selling it or putting it up for roll. This system will allow people to run raids on any toon they please, rather than being forced into specific roles just to *MAYBE* get that piece of equipment they've been hunting. I'm sure most of you hate running clerics in DQ, maybe you prefer a melee, or a caster, hell, even an Arcane Archer. But no, because you need that torc on your cleric, that means you can only really play that toon.

This system takes away from that. Scream doom and overpowered as much as you like. Like I said, its about as game breaking as a TR. Now, before you get your knickers in a bunch, I will be very careful about what I say.

You pull loot. You decide you have a toon that can use it, or would roll a toon to use it. It's your loot, you do what you want with it. We're gonna use the honor system here and say that you really only do this with what you pull. I mean, you're not gonna roll on something just to swap it to another character, right? That's almost as bad as those people who roll on items just to give it to a friend or guildy. Thus, the honor system.

This system allows you to transfer loot that is useless for one toon to another. But it's not going to be as simple as "Yay, a chattering ring! Into the shared bank you go!"
Nope, not that easy. Not only will YOU need the loot, you will need to get a "Token of Unbinding*" The only way to get this is to get the Xth completion OF A SPECIFIC RAID. Then, you get a special reward list [I]FOR A SPECIFIC ITEM, FROM THAT SPECIFIC RAID. We'll use the chattering ring in this example.

Your sorc pulls the Chattering Ring. Your fighter could really use it. Disappoint the pugs(This is probably less so in guild runs) and keep it for yourself. Now, you have a chattering ring that is attuned to your sorcerer's Soul, i.e. "Soul Bound*" . Now, you run the titan enough to get the Xth completion(We'll say 50 here). For your 50th completion, you get the special reward list offering "Tokens of Unbinding" for raid items available in the titan (Thus, you can't run DQ 50 times and get the token to unbind the chattering ring, sorry.) You take this token, the item, and some odd amount of Epic Raid Tokens(So they have an additional use besides being used as Epic Dungeon Token fodder.) The link to that specific character is then broken, and the chattering ring becomes "Soul Linked", or BOUND TO ACCOUNT. However, here's a little juicy tidbit of info on it: While it is indeed bound to account, the soul link will have a description as such:

Soul Link - "The link to your soul has been severed, but there is still a strong residue of attachment to you. Blah blah blah (I sill need to work out the exact description I'd use). The link, however, firmly reestablishes itself to the soul of the new bearer, becoming "Soul Bound" once again." However, there is no do overs, no oopsie moments. If your sorcerer equips the chattering ring after creating the soul link, it becomes bound to the sorcerer once again, thus needing a new "Token of Unbinding(Chattering Ring)" to do this.

Basically, the items become "Bound to Account, Bind on Equip." This is really about as overpowered as a TR, due to the fact that "The new character with the raid loot won't be [insert minimum level here.] forever." Thus, that point is moot. There will be a restriction on this, however. You won't be able to do this with Dragonscale(I mean, you should have made what you want on the right toon anyway). You can't do this with gear that has been upgraded to epic. Additionally, this will only apply to *RAID LOOT*.

You know, I realize that I was long winded, but I really fail to understand the arguments countering this.

*Check my previous suggestion earlier in this thread for more information.

P.S. If you need me to be more specific, by all means, PM me. I'll be more than happy to go over it.

[DrenglisEU]

I was thinking yesterday as I stared at the useless Chaosblade in my barbarians bank how nice it would be to have the ability to pass it off to a toon that could actually use it. My suggestion is that after a certain amount of raid completions a token be offered in the end reward list to cleanse your raid loot so that it is no longer bound to character. When I suggested it to some in my guild they said it may break raid loot. What if the token was only offered on a 50th completion though. I don't know if this mechanic is even possible in the current state of the game. It would be super nice though in transferring gear from a toon that has been TR'd, or one that has had to respec a build in order to fix it. What does the rest of the community think?

/NOT signed Would unbalance things even more!

[Zack77]

/NOT signed Would unbalance things even more!

Again, its as unbalancing as a TR. Its capacity to be game breaking is no more, no less than a TR that was fully decked out. I still don't see your reasoning behind that argument.

[Visty]

Again, its as unbalancing as a TR. Its capacity to be game breaking is no more, no less than a TR that was fully decked out. I still don't see your reasoning behind that argument.

its more unbalancing then TR

[Zack77]

its more unbalancing then TR

By all means, please explain in as detailed a way as possible, how it is more game breaking than a TR.

[Visty]

By all means, please explain in as detailed a way as possible, how it is more game breaking than a TR.

read the thread and you will know

[Thrudh]

You all scream "OMG, this will mean people will put loot up for roll less! People will horde raid loot!!" So what? Unless you belong to the "OMG, you can't use that item/I can use it better, you better put it up for roll/give it to me" camp, it shouldn't even bother you in the slightest. People will horde raid loot, that is a given. Raid loot is like any other piece of equipment in the game. People will horde things that they pull, even if they can't use it, or if they have another toon to use it. Just because that specific toon can't use it, its still THEIR **** LOOT. Get over yourselves!

But right now people don't horde raid loot. Why would you want the fairly generous system we have now (where people help out complete strangers) to go away?


With this system implemented, people will probably horde raid loot as much, if not more, than they do so now. Again, unless you belong to the previously stated selfish camp, what does it matter?

It matters because right now people help each other (Sure, it's not because we're super nice, I mean my fighter has zero use for that Stormreaver's napkin, so sure I'll give it up)... But I like that part of the game... Raid loot drama threads aside, I have found the DDO community to be 90% mature and generous...

I think that's a good thing.


Your sorc pulls the Chattering Ring. Your fighter could really use it. Disappoint the pugs(This is probably less so in guild runs) and keep it for yourself. Now, you have a chattering ring that is attuned to your sorcerer's Soul, i.e. "Soul Bound*" . Now, you run the titan enough to get the Xth completion(We'll say 50 here). For your 50th completion, you get the special reward list offering "Tokens of Unbinding" for raid items available in the titan (Thus, you can't run DQ 50 times and get the token to unbind the chattering ring, sorry.) You take this token, the item, and some odd amount of Epic Raid Tokens(So they have an additional use besides being used as Epic Dungeon Token fodder.)

I still don't like the precedent... I guarentee within days of such a system going live, people will complain to make it easier... and a year down the road it probably would be...

It's a slippery slope... It's not a good direction for the game, in my opinion...

My opinion.

[Thrudh]

By all means, please explain in as detailed a way as possible, how it is more game breaking than a TR.

The way you have it set up, it may not be... since it's such a huge grind... so less people will actually do it... so it may not be game-breaking (although it still is more than a TR... At least a TR had to do the raid themselves ONCE... your system, a character could do ZERO raids and still have top notch raid gear)

But people will horde loot they normally give up... just because there's a chance they can pass it off to an alt someday...

It would be bad for the game... The current system works pretty well.

[Zack77]

But right now people don't horde raid loot. Why would you want the fairly generous system we have now (where people help out complete strangers) to go away? False. People horde raid loot quite often, you just may not see it.



It matters because right now people help each other (Sure, it's not because we're super nice, I mean my fighter has zero use for that Stormreaver's napkin, so sure I'll give it up)... But I like that part of the game... Raid loot drama threads aside, I have found the DDO community to be 90% mature and generous...

I think that's a good thing. Again, not everyone is as helpful as you believe. There are countless people who horde raid loot "Because I might TR", or because they feel that "Its their loot, they'll do what they want with it. Which is fine, of course.



I still don't like the precedent... I guarentee within days of such a system going live, people will complain to make it easier... and a year down the road it probably would be... But it won't be much different from now. I suggested a way that, sure, it could make getting raid gear for specific characters easier, but we both know that since the release of Free to Play, the game has been getting easier anyway. So eventually, it might be even easier than what I described, and with that system, it may still be better than what they may implement in the future.

It's a slippery slope... It's not a good direction for the game, in my opinion...

My opinion.

Some responses in red. And I do respect your opinions, everyone is entitled to them. But the game breaking, or overpowered comments that are being thrown around are making no sense.

[Zack77]

The way you have it set up, it may not be... since it's such a huge grind... so less people will actually do it... so it may not be game-breaking (although it still is more than a TR... At least a TR had to do the raid themselves ONCE... your system, a character could do ZERO raids and still have top notch raid gear)

But people will horde loot they normally give up... just because there's a chance they can pass it off to an alt someday...

It would be bad for the game... The current system works pretty well.

That is indeed true, I won't deny it. But you could always fine-tune the system. I feel that what I posted does indeed need a lot of fine tuning. Maybe a fail-safe system to avoid what you described, I'm not sure. But all in all, it really won't change much compared to what we already see on the live servers. I'm not going to bash F2P'ers, but the loot hording started the same time DDO went F2P.

[Zack77]

its more unbalancing then TR

I have indeed gone through the entire thread, so I feel I am justified when I say: Please, give me a reasonable explanation. I have yet to see something from you that is a more compelling argument than "No, it would be unbalancing."

[Tarnoc]

ok so ill start with not signed....

and then ill say ive been here since the begining also ...so i do understand

the reason i wont sign is this

if we could transfer our raid loot around toons wen needed all the raid leaders would pretty much disapear from leading said raids.....thus making it more difficult for those who dont have to get...and thus keeping the haves and have nots always apart

it ultimately would kill the game wen new people have issues getting raids formed and doing raids period....and then wede be back to the population being bored power gamers like before and just after the server merges.....

as it sits now i have toon sthat need this or that although not many i have some ......

thus keping me starting raids and allowing newbs a really good chance to complete said raids


so again not signed

[Zack77]

ok so ill start with not signed....

and then ill say ive been here since the begining also ...so i do understand

the reason i wont sign is this

if we could transfer our raid loot around toons wen needed all the raid leaders would pretty much disapear from leading said raids.....thus making it more difficult for those who dont have to get...and thus keeping the haves and have nots always apart

it ultimately would kill the game wen new people have issues getting raids formed and doing raids period....and then wede be back to the population being bored power gamers like before and just after the server merges.....

as it sits now i have toon sthat need this or that although not many i have some ......

thus keping me starting raids and allowing newbs a really good chance to complete said raids


so again not signed

And yet, it'd be extremely tedious, boring, and grindy in order to transfer any raid loot around, for all the suggestions in this thread. Most of them make it where you need x item for doing x number of raids to make the item temporarily Bound to Account, Bind on Equip meaning that its BtA, then character bound to the next toon that equips it. I don't see how that's exactly hard to understand.

[Wrendd]

With the extreme grind that you are suggesting I do not think it would be "overpowered" but I still do not like the idea.

Why should I be able to move my Madstone Boots from my fighter to my Monk (or whatever)? That character did not "earn" them ie. did not run the quests to be allowed into the raid, did not do the raid, and did not get them as his own. At least a TR actually did something to get the items that he has, even if you get lucky and find the item on your first raid, you still had to flag (not VoD/HoX) and run the raid. I do not think that my lvl 13 toon that has never flagged for a raid (much less ever done one) should be entitled to items that I have on my fighter. Specifically, items that the devs have decided are powerful enough or rare enough to have the "Bound to Character" tag.

There is plenty of bound to account and unbound stuff out there that you can use to twink your alts.

[Zack77]

With the extreme grind that you are suggesting I do not think it would be "overpowered" but I still do not like the idea.

Why should I be able to move my Madstone Boots from my fighter to my Monk (or whatever)? That character did not "earn" them ie. did not run the quests to be allowed into the raid, did not do the raid, and did not get them as his own. At least a TR actually did something to get the items that he has, even if you get lucky and find the item on your first raid, you still had to flag (not VoD/HoX) and run the raid. I do not think that my lvl 13 toon that has never flagged for a raid (much less ever done one) should be entitled to items that I have on my fighter. Specifically, items that the devs have decided are powerful enough or rare enough to have the "Bound to Character" tag.

There is plenty of bound to account and unbound stuff out there that you can use to twink your alts.

I did say that there would need to be a failsafe system implemented to avoid people twinking out completely new toons with raid gear. What that exact system may be, I have no idea.

[Visty]

I have indeed gone through the entire thread, so I feel I am justified when I say: Please, give me a reasonable explanation. I have yet to see something from you that is a more compelling argument than "No, it would be unbalancing."

if you havent seen it, read it again

its spelled out several times, cause youre not the only one who doesnt get it

[Thrudh]

Again, not everyone is as helpful as you believe. There are countless people who horde raid loot "Because I might TR", or because they feel that "Its their loot, they'll do what they want with it. Which is fine, of course.


I can only go by what I see... I see when people loot raid gear... I can see what's in the chest... I can see the loot in my chat window...

I rarely see people take raid loot they can't use...

I raid a lot... I PUG a lot... People ARE as helpful as I believe... Most people do NOT horde loot gear... Since I PUG a lot, and I raid a lot, I believe my sample size is statistically significant.

[Zack77]

Let's see if I get this right...

It is more unbalancing than TR's, with TR's having access to raid gear at the minimum level. You say that's fine due to them not being that level forever. The argument for that is, even if the loot is transferred to another toon, they won't stay that level for ever. The point has been argued, and is now moot.

Your next argument is how gamebreaking it would be if raid gear was made bound to account. Maybe I missed something, but I don't think people were suggesting raid loot be changed from Bound to Character to Bound to Account. What I, and others have suggested, was make it temporarily Bound to Account, Bind on Equip. And even then, it would take a hefty sum to even make it so, like a 50-completion token for example. This is a big part of what I don't understand.

If it is game breaking for a toon to be running around with raid gear at its minimum level, whether you transferred it to that toon through a very expensive and time consuming process, or if you TR'd, then why is it okay for one and not for the other? I understand the "The TR earned it, so it makes sense." argument. However, I'm not saying that you should be able to roll a new toon and just give it the piece of equipment. Heck no! That would be way more unbalancing than anything currently in game!

What I suggested is a system that would allow you to transfer raid loot to another toon on your account that can use it first, but with a fail-safe that forces you to have to earn it some way before you can transfer it to that toon. Like, say, maybe the first completion of that raid. Better yet, maybe the 5th, 10th, even the 20th completion of a specific raid can grant you a token to allow you to equip the piece of raid gear, so that the character, although it never pulled the item itself, still sort of "earned" the right to have that piece of gear. All this truly does is reduce the amount of in-game grind of raid gear, in all honesty. I don't see how its game breaking.

I know people have their own opinions, and I for one do not wish to see DDO made even easier than it already is, but I feel what I suggest will be better than what may be implemented in the future due to an outcry of "OMG, I WANT THIS GAME EASIER!!"

[Zack77]

I can only go by what I see... I see when people loot raid gear... I can see what's in the chest... I can see the loot in my chat window...

I rarely see people take raid loot they can't use...

I raid a lot... I PUG a lot... People ARE as helpful as I believe... Most people do NOT horde loot gear... Since I PUG a lot, and I raid a lot, I believe my sample size is statistically significant.

I'll admit, some servers are probably better about it than others, but unless you can say you pug raid a lot across all servers, then its still kind of a moot point.

[Visty]

Let's see if I get this right...

It is more unbalancing than TR's, with TR's having access to raid gear at the minimum level. You say that's fine due to them not being that level forever. The argument for that is, even if the loot is transferred to another toon, they won't stay that level for ever. The point has been argued, and is now moot.

Your next argument is how gamebreaking it would be if raid gear was made bound to account. Maybe I missed something, but I don't think people were suggesting raid loot be changed from Bound to Character to Bound to Account. What I, and others have suggested, was make it temporarily Bound to Account, Bind on Equip. And even then, it would take a hefty sum to even make it so, like a 50-completion token for example. This is a big part of what I don't understand.

If it is game breaking for a toon to be running around with raid gear at its minimum level, whether you transferred it to that toon through a very expensive and time consuming process, or if you TR'd, then why is it okay for one and not for the other? I understand the "The TR earned it, so it makes sense." argument. However, I'm not saying that you should be able to roll a new toon and just give it the piece of equipment. Heck no! That would be way more unbalancing than anything currently in game!

What I suggested is a system that would allow you to transfer raid loot to another toon on your account that can use it first, but with a fail-safe that forces you to have to earn it some way before you can transfer it to that toon. Like, say, maybe the first completion of that raid. Better yet, maybe the 5th, 10th, even the 20th completion of a specific raid can grant you a token to allow you to equip the piece of raid gear, so that the character, although it never pulled the item itself, still sort of "earned" the right to have that piece of gear. All this truly does is reduce the amount of in-game grind of raid gear, in all honesty. I don't see how its game breaking.

I know people have their own opinions, and I for one do not wish to see DDO made even easier than it already is, but I feel what I suggest will be better than what may be implemented in the future due to an outcry of "OMG, I WANT THIS GAME EASIER!!"
or, instead of that complex system where the game has to check if a char is able to equip said item, leave everything as it is

dev time saved, no bugs introduced, no whining from ppl, etc, all are happy

[Thrudh]

Let's see if I get this right...

It is more unbalancing than TR's, with TR's having access to raid gear at the minimum level. You say that's fine due to them not being that level forever. The argument for that is, even if the loot is transferred to another toon, they won't stay that level for ever. The point has been argued, and is now moot.

Your next argument is how gamebreaking it would be if raid gear was made bound to account. Maybe I missed something, but I don't think people were suggesting raid loot be changed from Bound to Character to Bound to Account. What I, and others have suggested, was make it temporarily Bound to Account, Bind on Equip. And even then, it would take a hefty sum to even make it so, like a 50-completion token for example. This is a big part of what I don't understand.

If it is game breaking for a toon to be running around with raid gear at its minimum level, whether you transferred it to that toon through a very expensive and time consuming process, or if you TR'd, then why is it okay for one and not for the other? I understand the "The TR earned it, so it makes sense." argument. However, I'm not saying that you should be able to roll a new toon and just give it the piece of equipment. Heck no! That would be way more unbalancing than anything currently in game!

What I suggested is a system that would allow you to transfer raid loot to another toon on your account that can use it first, but with a fail-safe that forces you to have to earn it some way before you can transfer it to that toon. Like, say, maybe the first completion of that raid. Better yet, maybe the 5th, 10th, even the 20th completion of a specific raid can grant you a token to allow you to equip the piece of raid gear, so that the character, although it never pulled the item itself, still sort of "earned" the right to have that piece of gear. All this truly does is reduce the amount of in-game grind of raid gear, in all honesty. I don't see how its game breaking.

I know people have their own opinions, and I for one do not wish to see DDO made even easier than it already is, but I feel what I suggest will be better than what may be implemented in the future due to an outcry of "OMG, I WANT THIS GAME EASIER!!"

Fine, you have now devised a system where it would not be overpowering... Lots of hoops to jump through... but also lots of dev time devising such a system... time I believe would be wasted...

And I still don't want to give the player-base more incentive to take loot they can't currently use...

Here's a better solution for making sure your character gets what you want, much easier to implement... Just give everyone a full list on the 20th, 40th, etc. That seems easier than creating some token system.

[Uska]

Fine, you have now devised a system where it would not be overpowering... Lots of hoops to jump through... but also lots of dev time devising such a system... time I believe would be wasted...

And I still don't want to give the player-base more incentive to take loot they can't currently use...

Here's a better solution for making sure your character gets what you want, much easier to implement... Just give everyone a full list on the 20th, 40th, etc. That seems easier than creating some token system.

Bingo +1

[mudfud]

ok so ill start with not signed....

and then ill say ive been here since the begining also ...so i do understand

the reason i wont sign is this

if we could transfer our raid loot around toons wen needed all the raid leaders would pretty much disapear from leading said raids.....thus making it more difficult for those who dont have to get...and thus keeping the haves and have nots always apart

it ultimately would kill the game wen new people have issues getting raids formed and doing raids period....and then wede be back to the population being bored power gamers like before and just after the server merges.....

as it sits now i have toon sthat need this or that although not many i have some ......

thus keping me starting raids and allowing newbs a really good chance to complete said raids


so again not signed

That's nearly identical to the argument that was made when TR came out. The only thing that will kill the game is when people ALLOW others to influence there decision to make or join an lfm. There are more then plenty enough people who want to raid, but don't for whatever reason. There are plenty more people who want to learn raids and be able to lead them. The only thing that would be killed by this is the ability of people NOT RELYING ON OTHERS. If someone wants to spend 2+ years grinding raids to be allowed to change 1 bound to character item that might not even be raid loot that should be there choice to do.

[Visty]

Visty is afraid if this was to happen none of the powergamers would play with him anymore. Visty further believes that since lvl 9 VON raid items are AVAILABLE to LVL 7 players, this will further hurt the game.

once you leave the harbor send me a tell
i might duo some raids with you

[mudfud]

once you leave the harbor send me a tell
i might duo some raids with you

I'm out the harbor lets go duo some raids. Oh wait, I wouldnt want you to think I'm to overpowered so I'll wear my korthos gear just for you. That might make it a bit more even.

And a suggestion for you, think of something original. I've seen what you posted said by ALOT of others since the game began as 'comebacks' for not being able to admit when they are wrong.

[Zack77]

Fine, you have now devised a system where it would not be overpowering... Lots of hoops to jump through... but also lots of dev time devising such a system... time I believe would be wasted...

And I still don't want to give the player-base more incentive to take loot they can't currently use...

Here's a better solution for making sure your character gets what you want, much easier to implement... Just give everyone a full list on the 20th, 40th, etc. That seems easier than creating some token system.

Now, you see, I do indeed feel that this is a great solution. Not nearly as grindy as the one I suggested, and you're right: It helps avoid selfishness and hording. +1, man.

P.S. sorry about the late responses, was under the weather yesterday, I could barely get out of bed! :(

[Zuldar]

If items cleansed in this manner were susceptible to permanent damage, then it'd be ok. You'd sacrifice it's durability for a bit of versatility.

[~Cereals_Alt]

If items cleansed in this manner were susceptible to permanent damage, then it'd be ok. You'd sacrifice it's durability for a bit of versatility.
+1

That is definitely a fair trade off !

[khaldan]

It takes a Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time to break a piece of raid loot to the point where it's not really usable anymore. That's not a deterrent.

[~Cereals_Alt]

It takes a Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time to break a piece of raid loot to the point where it's not really usable anymore. That's not a deterrent.

That's because raid loot isn't currently breakable at this point in time.

[khaldan]

That's because raid loot isn't currently breakable at this point in time.

Back when it was, unless you exclusively used an SoS against rusty monsters, it still took well over a year or two to destroy. Heck, I've only heard of one that managed to get destroyed.

It's a bit worse for non adamantine weapons, but not by a lot, and most of them aren't going to be transferred.

[~Cereals_Alt]

I agree it does take a long time to get a piece of gear to break to the point that it is unrepairable. I have only ever done it one time. And I still have the item in my bank just for the nostalgia of it .

[khaldan]

Just for reference, I consider 'unusable as a normal item'(something you wear 90% of the time) to be at around 25%. But yeah, breaking anything to 0% is fairly hard to do, especially on a SoS.(Not many other weapons that I'd pass around, unless you can pass GS around)

[Zuldar]

It takes a Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time to break a piece of raid loot to the point where it's not really usable anymore. That's not a deterrent.

Meh that's just a matter of numbers, you can always change numbers. Lets say the ritual reduces the items hardness, or makes all damage permanent instead of just a chance at permanent damage. Suddenly it's a lot more balanced.

[khaldan]

Meh that's just a matter of numbers, you can always change numbers. Lets say the ritual reduces the items hardness, or makes all damage permanent instead of just a chance at permanent damage. Suddenly it's a lot more balanced.

All damage being permanent means it's going to be a swap in item, and reducing hardness is either going to be balanced for most items, and won't affect anything made of adamantine(hmmm) or will be balanced for the SoS and make everything else paper.

[~Cereals_Alt]

Meh that's just a matter of numbers, you can always change numbers. Lets say the ritual reduces the items hardness, or makes all damage permanent instead of just a chance at permanent damage. Suddenly it's a lot more balanced.

I don't see that as a feasible compromise because there is no way to control damage. If you get blasted with a fireball or another AOE spell it has a tendency to damage random items in your pack.

[Zuldar]

I don't see that as a feasible compromise because there is no way to control damage. If you get blasted with a fireball or another AOE spell it has a tendency to damage random items in your pack.

That's the compromise, if you don't your raid loot destroyed don't cleanse it.


All damage being permanent means it's going to be a swap in item, and reducing hardness is either going to be balanced for most items, and won't affect anything made of adamantine(hmmm) or will be balanced for the SoS and make everything else paper.

So, let them be made of paper, it's a necessary sacrifice for being able to move loot to you alts. Versatility should come with a steep price.

[~Cereals_Alt]

That's the compromise, if you don't your raid loot destroyed don't cleanse it.



So, let them be made of paper, it's a necessary sacrifice for being able to move loot to you alts. Versatility should come with a steep price.

After the grind that has been described to cleanse an item , having it destroyed forever in a matter of hours is not a compromise nor is it reasonable.

[khaldan]

That's the compromise, if you don't your raid loot destroyed don't cleanse it.



So, let them be made of paper, it's a necessary sacrifice for being able to move loot to you alts. Versatility should come with a steep price.

Oh why hello Mr. Rusty how- OH JESUS HE BROKE MY SOS ARGH

Get a bloodrage symbiont and run a few quests using it. Watch how fast it breaks.

This would be worse.

[Zuldar]

After the grind that has been described to cleanse an item , having it destroyed forever in a matter of hours is not a compromise nor is it reasonable.

Considering how powerful the ability to move raid loot around would be, it needs an equally powerful detriment. Permanent damage will also keep people raiding, otherwise once someone has cleansed every raid item they want to pass around, they're done forever.


Oh why hello Mr. Rusty how- OH JESUS HE BROKE MY SOS ARGH

Get a bloodrage symbiont and run a few quests using it. Watch how fast it breaks.

This would be worse.

If you start raiding and somehow haven't learned how to handle rusties, well it'll be a guaranteed learning experience.

[~Cereals_Alt]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and take a wild guess that you have an SOS and that you are in love with it. The last 4 posts you have made have mentioned this fine Greatsword. I hope you realize though that it's not the only piece of bound to character loot in the game.

[khaldan]

I don't(at least, anymore), but that's going to get passed around the most.

And while it isn't the only BtC item, name another one that's worthwhile.

[Zuldar]

I don't(at least, anymore), but that's going to get passed around the most.

And while it isn't the only BtC item, name another one that's worthwhile.

Madstone boots, chattering ring, the torc etc.

[khaldan]

Madstone boots, chattering ring, the torc etc.

Boots aren't nearly as good as they once were, but the other two I'll give you. The ring doesn't make as much of an impact at level, but does help.

[~Cereals_Alt]

I don't(at least, anymore), but that's going to get passed around the most.

And while it isn't the only BtC item, name another one that's worthwhile.

a good majority of the loot listed in this thread is bound to character http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=121279 whether it is worthwhile is up to the person and their build.

[mudfud]

Considering how powerful the ability to move raid loot around would be, it needs an equally powerful detriment. Permanent damage will also keep people raiding, otherwise once someone has cleansed every raid item they want to pass around, they're done forever.

By this quote alone you think it would take 1 month to cleanse each and every item you own.
If turbine was to impose a 1000 raid per character per each time, that 1000 raid per character should be enough of an equally powerful detriment to make it as it would be still.

9 raids ingame:

100 raids -> 1 year
x9 raids = 900 raids a year

That's not the exacts but I'm sure you get what I'm leading to. If someone wants to grind like that when they off each timer to put themself back on, that should be reward enough.

[Zuldar]

By this quote alone you think it would take 1 month to cleanse each and every item you own.
If turbine was to impose a 1000 raid per character per each time, that 1000 raid per character should be enough of an equally powerful detriment to make it as it would be still.

9 raids ingame:

100 raids -> 1 year
x9 raids = 900 raids a year

That's not the exacts but I'm sure you get what I'm leading to. If someone wants to grind like that when they off each timer to put themself back on, that should be reward enough.

I recall the OP suggesting 50 completions, so that's the number I went with, which would take approximately 150 days per item, and of course with multiple characters you could cleanse multiple items. For example if you have 5 raid running characters you could cleanse about 10 items per year, or with 10 characters you could have 10 items in half the time and have 20 cleansed items in a year. That would be enough to have one raid item for every slot and then some.

That would be a lot of cleansed items in a relatively short period of time, and as such requires some sort of control mechanism to prevent it from getting out of hand.

[mudfud]

I recall the OP suggesting 50 completions, so that's the number I went with, which would take approximately 150 days per item, and of course with multiple characters you could cleanse multiple items. For example if you have 5 raid running characters you could cleanse about 10 items per year, or with 10 characters you could have 10 items in half the time and have 20 cleansed items in a year. That would be enough to have one raid item for every slot and then some.

That would be a lot of cleansed items in a relatively short period of time, and as such requires some sort of control mechanism to prevent it from getting out of hand.

Yeah that's why in this way, I don't think 50 would even be feasible for this. It's just simply too easy to get that amount. But by making it even more like 1000 it would make this even better since people are implying only raid items would be 'cleansed'.

[Zuldar]

Yeah that's why in this way, I don't think 50 would even be feasible for this. It's just simply too easy to get that amount. But by making it even more like 1000 it would make this even better since people are implying only raid items would be 'cleansed'.

The problem with just making it 1000 completions is that it only delays the inevitable. Eventually people will have everything they need cleansed and then you're stuck with the same exact problem. So unless you're counting on the game shutting down sometime soon it's better to just nip it in the bud.

[mudfud]

The problem with just making it 1000 completions is that it only delays the inevitable. Eventually people will have everything they need cleansed and then you're stuck with the same exact problem. So unless you're counting on the game shutting down sometime soon it's better to just nip it in the bud.


But it's the speed that will vary. Some will rush to do this and grind for the year. Others will be more relaxed about it.

The same goes to how the game currently is. Each piece of raid loot is randomly generated. It might take you 2 years to get 1 item or it might take your first time just depends on luck. And having a partial list every 20 raids is still no sure thing that you will get said item you are after. So in that same sense people will also still eventually get everything.

[Zuldar]

But it's the speed that will vary. Some will rush to do this and grind for the year. Others will be more relaxed about it.

The same goes to how the game currently is. Each piece of raid loot is randomly generated. It might take you 2 years to get 1 item or it might take your first time just depends on luck. And having a partial list every 20 raids is still no sure thing that you will get said item you are after. So in that same sense people will also still eventually get everything.

Sure it will take a while to get everything you need, but you have to consider the long term effects to the game. People will eventually get everything they want and if everything they have is cleansed then they'll never need to raid. Without some method of controlling the cleansing of items, other then just prolonging it, we'll end up paying for it later.

[mudfud]

Sure it will take a while to get everything you need, but you have to consider the long term effects to the game. People will eventually get everything they want and if everything they have is cleansed then they'll never need to raid. Without some method of controlling the cleansing of items, other then just prolonging it, we'll end up paying for it later.


That's only if the cleansing is permanent. Hence after 'cleansing' bind on equip. Whether it would happen now or later shouldn't matter. But reward the ones who want it sooner then others.

[Thorzian]

I started playing this at the beginning of 2005. It has been almost 6 years. lol

no you didnt. beta testing was Jan 06.

[~Cereals_Alt]

no you didnt. beta testing was Jan 06. haha , if you read further you would have seen where I said I made a mistake. Good lookin out and makin sure no falsehoods were committed in this thread.