20th completions? - Yikes!

[My2Cents]

I've been reading discussions in the forums about needing 20 completions of some quests and/or raids to get certain items....that seems amazing! I can understand the game designers not wanting to hand out just anything to anyone without abandon, but I can't imagine being required to endure the same adventure 20, 40, 60 times to attain some item or component. There's gotta be a better way to make items rare without requiring such repetition.

Guess I will have to live without those items, unless the quest/raid in question is particularly riveting or fun. That sure seems like a design problem to me, to require a player to replay an adventure 20 times for a shot at a particular item. I sure hope it's advertised in game or in the wiki so us not-yet-epics at least know what to try for or what to avoid.

Is there a list of which quests and/or raids require 20th completions to attain items, and what those items are, or is it in the general end-loot guides floating around?

[AbsynthMinded]

You misunderstand.. There are always random drop potentials, but on the 20th completion you are offered a selection of potential named items in the final award list from the quest giver.

[MrWizard]

it is random loot rolls, even on a 20th completion.
I agree, it is horrid.

some will NEVER see an item they want no matter how many times they run a quest. One can only hope someone wants to give it up.

this game is not a grind...it is purely repetition.


wait til you hear the epic crafting horror stories of literally hundreds of runs to craft one single item.... (that after 1 to 80 or more runs to just get the item itself)

it is more about making a really good build and getting good at doing the same thing over and over again in different ways...and having fun with friends.

I agree, it should be a guarantee to get your item, at the very least on the 20th run...

[Lithic]

20 runs for a piece of raid loot isn't even very grindy, as you can only do those quests once every 3 days. Those 20 runs are spread out over 2+ months, with hours of other (hopefully fun) gameplay in between.

Now try running shadowcrypt elite 12 times, then C/N/H, all within about 2 hours, and you will truly see what grinding is :D

[AbsynthMinded]

20 runs for a piece of raid loot isn't even very grindy, as you can only do those quests once every 3 days. Those 20 runs are spread out over 2+ months, with hours of other (hopefully fun) gameplay in between.

Now try running shadowcrypt elite 12 times, then C/N/H, all within about 2 hours, and you will truly see what grinding is :D


Well technically you can pike that quest the whole run till the end, and let the Fire Wall user do all the work.

[Auran82]

About the only item that you need to wait for a 20th completion for is the cleansing item in the Shroud if you want to wear a second (or third, or fourth) Greensteel accessory.

Most other things can be gotten through normal questing/raiding.

[Srozbun]

About the only item that you need to wait for a 20th completion for is the cleansing item in the Shroud if you want to wear a second (or third, or fourth) Greensteel accessory.

Most other things can be gotten through normal questing/raiding.

Maybe I am unlucky, but about 50% of my planned end game gear was only obtained (and some not even obtained) by picking them up on a 20th completion. I'm still waiting on Torc, Levik's Shield, Litany, a few other ones that I can't think of atm. Looking to acquire those by my 40th now...

[AyumiAmakusa]

Well technically you can pike that quest the whole run till the end, and let the Fire Wall user do all the work.

I do that all the time. Well, me and 3 others (2 firewallers). The XP is so good that I can pike my characters from about level 9 to 12 and play the playstation to wait it out.

[Emili]

20 runs for a piece of raid loot isn't even very grindy, as you can only do those quests once every 3 days. Those 20 runs are spread out over 2+ months, with hours of other (hopefully fun) gameplay in between.

Now try running shadowcrypt elite 12 times, then C/N/H, all within about 2 hours, and you will truly see what grinding is :D
Not really... shadowcrypt is something simple could be done completely alone for most all characters seeking that one item ... while the typical raid takes least putting a decent group together for most characters. Top it off - only grind shadowcrypt for your monk... however pany people will run tod sets on multiple characters. When you have enough characters to actually fill a raid in your account and wish them to sport decent to the best build you planned for them... complicates things more. like so...


Maybe I am unlucky, but about 50% of my planned end game gear was only obtained (and some not even obtained) by picking them up on a 20th completion. I'm still waiting on Torc, Levik's Shield, Litany, a few other ones that I can't think of atm. Looking to acquire those by my 40th now...

Now then see this now multiply that by 13 level 20 characters in your account... You'll find the waiting is the hardest part.

[Junts]

Another thing to remember about DDO is that items have a much longer shelf-life than other MMOs, at least endgame items.

I have items I looted 2 years ago that remain regular endgame equipment that many players still don't have, on high-end powergaming characters.

Part of the item rarity is due to this phenomenon. If you could fully equip a character in 3 months like WoW, DDO would have no staying power, because upgrade items are actually not that common and frequently take considerable time to acquire.

Look at items like the Chattering Ring or Torc of Prince Raiyum; these items have been available for over 3 years and remain best in slot equipment for certain builds (in the torc's case, of cousre, there is the epic version to upgrade to).

[aristarchus1000]

Plus, this is rare raid gear. There is very little that is NEEDED to be grinded in order to enjoy 99% of the game. Sure, the powergamers do it, but everyone else doesn't necessarily have to.

[r3dl4nce]

When you are level 20, you have lot of time (until you will roll another alt character) to farm raid items. And if you don't farm raid items to fully equip your character, you will never have a good character. So live with it, DDO is most about doing good builds and having raid items

[FluffyCalico]

So live with it, DDO is most about doing good builds and having raid items

DDO is about having fun. If you find having a powerful character fun (most do) then yes the above may be needed for you to have fun. However some people care not about that and just want to spend time online with their friends...or eat time because they have nothing else to do. DDO is about different things for different people.

[CountHenri]

Of course if the loot gods hate you its worse : 38 Reavers for a pair of Madstones on my Bard...

Plus if you want +3/+4 tomes then its worse...

Getting the 2 ToD rings you want - prepare for a grind...

DT Armor *shudder*...

I havent got a single Scroll/Shard or Seal for an Epic I want to make with 25 Raid Tokens and 20 Dungeon Tokens in the bank...

This does of course work the other way :

My Wizard got both pieces of the Glacial Assault set in 3 runs, my Monk won Tharnes on his first VoD (on a roll of 100) and my Barb got Madstones on his second reaver...

Keep in mind this is good gear and it should be challanging to get - some is just more challanging than others :)

[Beherit_Baphomar]

20th raid completions really never bothered me. Hell how many Shrouds have we ran? 200? 600?

If you want the item 20, or even 40 runs isn't such a big deal. If it is then you really don't want the item, do you?

Rare items are rare. Raid loot is about the only loot worth having in this game. Make it easier to get and there will be a lot of people with zero reason to even log on any more.

[cptcruch]

Try over 100+ reaver runs on a toon that is over 4yrs old and no +3 tome ever to drop or given as end reward!

I got a +3 but never from the reaver!

[Hambo]

When you are level 20, you have lot of time (until you will roll another alt character) to farm raid items. And if you don't farm raid items to fully equip your character, you will never have a good character. So live with it, DDO is most about doing good builds and having raid items

I call BS on the highlighted statement. Most of us play the game because we have fun doing it.

If you have to have raid gear to enjoy the game then you may want to re-examine your motivation for playing DDO.

Agreed, at level 20 you have a lot of time to go after specific gear, and there's nothing wrong with that, but to say that you will never have a "good" character without the items is shortsighted.

[cwfergtx]

I was on my wiz the other week and it was his 20th Reaver run. Been trying to get the head at the time and someone pulled it. He mentions he was thinking about letting it go for run and I said sweet been wanting a chance to get on in 20 runs. He then stated well if it is your 20th run I did not need to roll because it would be on my end reward list. I told him it was not gauranteed to appear. I rolled the higher number but he gave it to the 2nd highest since it was my 20th run. When I got to the end reward it was not there. Shot him a tell that the head did not appear and he replied oh, well better luck next time.

[My2Cents]

Look at items like the Chattering Ring or Torc of Prince Raiyum; these items have been available for over 3 years and remain best in slot equipment for certain builds (in the torc's case, of cousre, there is the epic version to upgrade to).

Is there an online resource where an advanced n00b like myself can find out what the "best in slot" items are for various builds?

[My2Cents]

When you are level 20, you have lot of time (until you will roll another alt character) to farm raid items. And if you don't farm raid items to fully equip your character, you will never have a good character. So live with it, DDO is most about doing good builds and having raid items

If I understand what you are saying, if someone doesn't farm raids they will never have a good character? Then by your definition, since I don't anticipate the ability to do much raiding, I will never have a good character.

I will look forward to when my main is 20, and I have enjoyed the content, and dabbled in a few alts to get the enjoyment of varied classes, races and weapons, and then I'll move on.

I like a game where I can get a pretty good character without needing to do too many raids (as I must mostly solo, and raids seem to -require- groups), and without needing to do TOO many repititions. I can live with the fact that my 'unusual' need for soloing means I can't do everything DDO has to offer (raids), but a game that -requires- me to do too many repetitions to get a fairly decent character is probably not the best fit for me. I'm sure there are many like me who have to work hard to find time to play. That model works great for those who can spend many hours a day in the game (I wish I could!)

I do love DDO and as long as there is new content and new things to explore I will continue to enjoy it.

[Missing_Minds]

The only thing that drops only on the 20s is The Shroud with the Item of Cleansing. If you never plan on wearing more than one greensteel item, however, this 20th is worthless to you. The tomes may be nice though.

[r3dl4nce]

If I understand what you are saying, if someone doesn't farm raids they will never have a good character? Then by your definition, since I don't anticipate the ability to do much raiding, I will never have a good character.Sorry to say that, but it's this way. The best items come out from raids. Greensteel from shroud, ToD sets from Shavarath raid, Hox/VoD sets, Madstone boots from Reaver fate, on and on and on. Usually a well equipped character has nearly every slot used by a raid or epic item.


I like a game where I can get a pretty good character without needing to do too many raids (as I must mostly solo, and raids seem to -require- groups), and without needing to do TOO many repititions. Oh you can have fun raising a character to 20 with too much repetitions. Ok and when you are 20? Usually when you have a capped character you start to equip it, that means raiding or repeating some quests to get items. You don't wanna farm/raid? Ok you start another character. And you do the same quest to level up. Then you are 20. Ok another character. And the same quests to level up.... You see the point?
DDO is all about farming, for items or experience.


I can live with the fact that my 'unusual' need for soloing means I can't do everything DDO has to offer (raids), but a game that -requires- me to do too many repetitions to get a fairly decent character is probably not the best fit for me.It's not required, but when you have a character raised to 20, what you do? Or farm raids and quest to item or you go repeating quests to exp another character...


I'm sure there are many like me who have to work hard to find time to play. That model works great for those who can spend many hours a day in the game (I wish I could!)Well, if you solo play the most and you don't play much, you won't be 20 in a LOOOONG time so take your time and have fun along the way.

[My2Cents]

I was on my wiz the other week and it was his 20th Reaver run. Been trying to get the head at the time and someone pulled it. He mentions he was thinking about letting it go for run and I said sweet been wanting a chance to get on in 20 runs. He then stated well if it is your 20th run I did not need to roll because it would be on my end reward list. I told him it was not gauranteed to appear. I rolled the higher number but he gave it to the 2nd highest since it was my 20th run. When I got to the end reward it was not there. Shot him a tell that the head did not appear and he replied oh, well better luck next time.

Oh how nice of him.

I just found this in the wiki, don't know how dated it is:

"Also, after completing a raid 20 times (or multiple thereof) the quest givers end reward will be a selection of 1 item from a list of just under half of all the raid items that may drop (no duplicates). Exception: The new raids A Vision of Destruction and Hound of Xoriat have such a small raid loot list that almost all raid loot items are offered for selection. "

[Potvin]

it is random loot rolls, even on a 20th completion.
I agree, it is horrid.

some will NEVER see an item they want no matter how many times they run a quest. One can only hope someone wants to give it up.

this game is not a grind...it is purely repetition.


wait til you hear the epic crafting horror stories of literally hundreds of runs to craft one single item.... (that after 1 to 80 or more runs to just get the item itself)

it is more about making a really good build and getting good at doing the same thing over and over again in different ways...and having fun with friends.

I agree, it should be a guarantee to get your item, at the very least on the 20th run...


All this - is why I quit.

Even being in the bestest guild on my server (imo) I simply couldn't reconcile with myself the fact it would take well over a year to build and awesomely equip a single character. The grind, the cooldowns, the overall lack of rewards for time spent - it's simply not for me.

To get 20 runs on a character takes 55 days at best. That doesn't guarantee anything. One item.

No thanks.

[Ragnoxx]

The best method for getting that raid gear you are looking for is to run in guild groups. If you run with the same ppl you will eventually get the item passed to you that you are looking for. I regularly run raids with guild on characters that don't need a thing from the given raid just to have a chance to pull an item someone is looking for. Grinding can be a pain (and is not for everyone) but it is worth it in the end. Plus if you have multiple characters who cares if it takes months. You just work on another toon until your raid timer comes up again. Ive seen two ppl pull a LotD on their first abbot run, but this is not the norm so you just have to put in the repetition. Good Luck.

[Bacab]

The correct answer is...

To be good at the quests that you plan on doing...you must do those quest repeatedly.

AKA we can all agree that Greensteel Mineral 2 Weapons make the Shroud easier. AKA "I need to run the Shroud more to farm the Shroud better".

Torc makes all quests easier.

Tharne's Goggles makes all melee better.

Long Story short...you do indeed have to run raids to "Optimize" your toon. This being said...gear does not equal skill. But certain quest do require gear. AKA I do not want the "Highly Skilled" Light Monk using Flaming Wraps on a VoD Elite. You are going to do nothing...

[Modulex]

I like a game where I can get a pretty good character without needing to do too many raids (as I must mostly solo, and raids seem to -require- groups), and without needing to do TOO many repititions. I can live with the fact that my 'unusual' need for soloing means I can't do everything DDO has to offer (raids), but a game that -requires- me to do too many repetitions to get a fairly decent character is probably not the best fit for me. I'm sure there are many like me who have to work hard to find time to play. That model works great for those who can spend many hours a day in the game (I wish I could!)

I do love DDO and as long as there is new content and new things to explore I will continue to enjoy it.

Just curious, what people who only, or most of the time play this game solo, get? Why not just play a game designed for single play? Plenty of good options available IMO and none require extensive grind.

[Crazyfruit]

Why not just play a game designed for single play? Plenty of good options available IMO and none require extensive grind.

Because the game/quests is fun/interesting, as well as the # of weird builds you can make and different ways to play it.

Personally I consider DDO more like Diablo than a MMO, with better chat features.


Just curious, what people who only, or most of the time play this game solo, get?

Many pug groups are terribly slow and die a lot. An experienced player soloing a quest gets 10% experience bonus (no death penalty) & much better xp/min.

[Zombiekenny]

Try Spyder's 137 runs of titan for his belt. Glad I've never had that horrible of luck (yet).