Why Imp. Crit Slash...

[Nezith]

So I may TR in a couple weeks, and I am wondering why I would pick up Imp. Critical Slashing when I will have a Mineral 2 Greataxe (Which is keen). As far as I can tell, it isn't a pre-req for Frenzied Barb, and if I switch weapons I am more likely to switch to a Maul, not another slashing weapon.

Is there something else I am missing?

Thanks

[Consumer]

Epic SoS, Epic Xuum, Lit II and so on are all not keen. Mineral II Barb THF DPS is not good at the moment, you need to use other weapons to be on par with other classes. If your happy not being top Barb DPS you won't need it but otherwise its a required feat.

[Nezith]

Well, from what I understand I am a long way from Epics. Once I TR and get back to 20 I can always swap it out but it seems like such a waste otherwise.

[Wraith_Sarevok]

Epic SoS, Epic Xuum, Lit II and so on are all not keen. Mineral II Barb THF DPS is not good at the moment, you need to use other weapons to be on par with other classes. If your happy not being top Barb DPS you won't need it but otherwise its a required feat.

You couldn't be more wrong. Against certain bosses that require Good + Silver and Good + Cold Iron to cut through their damage reduction, Min II is your best bet. When you're going up against an elite or epic boss with 30-50 DR, the extra lightning damage from Lit II just isn't going to cut it, and you will want to count on all of your base strength + weapon damage to cut through. You also fail to take into account the extra slicing (bleed) damage that comes with Min II, which many enemies are vulnerable to. In all, Min II is still one of the top 5 two-handed weapons in the game and still remains ahead of the poor Epic Antique Greataxe or any lootgen weapon you could find. Carry one at all times.


Well, from what I understand I am a long way from Epics. Once I TR and get back to 20 I can always swap it out but it seems like such a waste otherwise.

There is no one all-powerful super weapon in the game, as shown above. Thus, you don't want to limit yourself to using only Min II in all of your battles. Improved Critical is really a must-have feat for all of the good two-handers you are going to find and carry. Also keep in mind that Red and Purple-named bosses cannot be auto-critted, so you will be relying on critical threat range to increase your damage.

[Rabscuttle]

Improved Critical is a good one to drop from your feat list once you have your min2 greataxe and min2 maul. It'll let you take toughness, which will benefit you more than imp crit. As you start crafting / looting your other weapons (such as lightning, fire, holy, etc), you'll want to swap that feat back into your build.

[Nahual]

If you mainly use Min II id suggest to drop it. The next question then becomes What feat
are you going to swap it out for? Someone suggested another toughness? Depends on your build, my barb has enough hps with only 1 toughness feat.

So you need to compare the usefulness of your next feat to the old one.

I dropped it and got the Past Life: Bersekers fury feat just so I could see plus 4 to STR.
for 30 seconds. Its fun.

[Nezith]

If you mainly use Min II id suggest to drop it. The next question then becomes What feat
are you going to swap it out for? Someone suggested another toughness? Depends on your build, my barb has enough hps with only 1 toughness feat.

So you need to compare the usefulness of your next feat to the old one.

I dropped it and got the Past Life: Bersekers fury feat just so I could see plus 4 to STR.
for 30 seconds. Its fun.

That is what I was thinking of trying, to see how I like it, and if I get some other better weapons later I can swap again.

[ddobard1]

You must have Improved Critical, if only to compel Foes to get fortification and punish those who haven't. You'll find many valuable weapons no keen through your adventures. But a Barbarian also wants Toughness.

Then you may select some from this pool: THF; ITHF; GTHF; Cleave (FB); Power Attack; Stunning Blow; Past Life: Berserker's Fury.(+1 HP/Level, +2 Intimidate, and a 30 seconds stackable Rage +4 Strength, +4 Constitution, +2 Will Save, -2 AC.)

[yawumpus]

If it can be critted, you want a THF barbarian (level <12) to use Carnifax*. Carnifax is something like ML4, so you will probably only using some sort of kobold bane before that.

This makes imp crit: slash even less useful before you can equip your min2.

* Carnifax is a +1 keen greataxe with a 19-20 crit range before keen (effectively 17-20 x3 with or without imp crit) it is an end reward from Delera's with a pitiful drop rate. I can't tell you if it is worth grinding for (it binds to account so grinding is the only option for it).

[Consumer]

You couldn't be more wrong. Against certain bosses that require Good + Silver and Good + Cold Iron to cut through their damage reduction, Min II is your best bet. When you're going up against an elite or epic boss with 30-50 DR, the extra lightning damage from Lit II just isn't going to cut it, and you will want to count on all of your base strength + weapon damage to cut through. You also fail to take into account the extra slicing (bleed) damage that comes with Min II, which many enemies are vulnerable to. In all, Min II is still one of the top 5 two-handed weapons in the game and still remains ahead of the poor Epic Antique Greataxe or any lootgen weapon you could find. Carry one at all times.

Lucky someone bumped the thread so I could see this. Against pit fiends on hard in which DR is 25 and elite in which it is 35 having the metalline and and holy attributes on your Min II is of course very useful. The Demon Queens DR is 20 on epic not 50, her elemental resistance goes up to 50.

However in the other 99% of the game when we are not fighting mobs that do not require that DR to be broken there are weapons that do superior DPS.

I do not discount the bleed damage, however the average 2.5 bleed damage per swing does not equal the amount that lightning strike (~2% chance of ~600 damage= 12 damage a swing)adds or the amount that an epic SoS adds onto base damage and crits.

Now until you can prove that min II is the only weapon you should own don't make posts like this.

[PopeJual]

Improved Critical is a good one to drop from your feat list once you have your min2 greataxe and min2 maul. It'll let you take toughness, which will benefit you more than imp crit. As you start crafting / looting your other weapons (such as lightning, fire, holy, etc), you'll want to swap that feat back into your build.

Why would someone make a MinII Maul? Mauls are only better than other weapons when you're fighting against things that have DR/Blunt (i.e. undead). Make a Pos/Pos/Pos Maul and enjoy the carnage with a caster or UMD user who tosses out Halt Undead scrolls.

[imblo99]

Lucky someone bumped the thread so I could see this. Against pit fiends on hard in which DR is 25 and elite in which it is 35 having the metalline and and holy attributes on your Min II is of course very useful. The Demon Queens DR is 20 on epic not 50, her elemental resistance goes up to 50.

However in the other 99% of the game when we are not fighting mobs that do not require that DR to be broken there are weapons that do superior DPS.

I do not discount the bleed damage, however the average 2.5 bleed damage per swing does not equal the amount that lightning strike (~2% chance of ~600 damage= 12 damage a swing)adds or the amount that an epic SoS adds onto base damage and crits.

Now until you can prove that min II is the only weapon you should own don't make posts like this.

A little harsh, considering you've basically quoted him out of context. He never said it was the only weapon you should own, only that you can't play down it's importance vs dr type mobs. More importantly, see the second paragraph of his post:



There is no one all-powerful super weapon in the game, as shown above. Thus, you don't want to limit yourself to using only Min II in all of your battles. Improved Critical is really a must-have feat for all of the good two-handers you are going to find and carry. Also keep in mind that Red and Purple-named bosses cannot be auto-critted, so you will be relying on critical threat range to increase your damage.

Useful info indeed.

[Hokonoso]

Why would someone make a MinII Maul? Mauls are only better than other weapons when you're fighting against things that have DR/Blunt (i.e. undead). Make a Pos/Pos/Pos Maul and enjoy the carnage with a caster or UMD user who tosses out Halt Undead scrolls.

cause if you make a min 2 maul you have a dr beater for everything and then your dps weapon becomes a lit 2 falchion. there is no reason to make a min 2 greataxe imo, waste of larges for a very minor increase in dps over maul.

[PopeJual]

cause if you make a min 2 maul you have a dr beater for everything and then your dps weapon becomes a lit 2 falchion. there is no reason to make a min 2 greataxe imo, waste of larges for a very minor increase in dps over maul.

Now that actually makes sense to me. I have thought about making a MinII weapon that doesn't match my Improved Critical feat so that I'll get more benefit from the Keen aspect of the MinII. It gives flexibility while not actually losing anything significant (as long as you aren't getting Kensai bonuses or racial/class weapon bonuses for the Axe, etc).

[Hokonoso]

Now that actually makes sense to me. I have thought about making a MinII weapon that doesn't match my Improved Critical feat so that I'll get more benefit from the Keen aspect of the MinII. It gives flexibility while not actually losing anything significant (as long as you aren't getting Kensai bonuses or racial/class weapon bonuses for the Axe, etc).

i consider myself someone with unlimited supplies and here are the gs weaposn i have crafted.

min 2 khopeshes (past life was ranger so dont count those)
min 2 maul
lit 2 falchion
trip pos falchion (for fun really so dont ask)
trip neg falchion (u know that thing called pvp? well it doesnt exist so dont make this)

if i wanted a min 2 gaxe i could make one but i see no point whatsoever. infact the only reason id make a gaxe is if i were a dorf but since im wf i see no reason to move away from falchion/mauls, and if i ever make a portal beater then greatsword (but my gsword of greater construct bane works well for now).

im actually considering dropping the imp crit feat for some flavor but undecided, my next life will be paladin anyways so it's not a big deal, but for now while having fun ima keep having fun!