Ranged combat vs PvP

[h4x0r1f1c]

When a ranger uses Manyshot and Slayer Arrows in PvP they get a 20% chance to proc on you.

That along with their normal damage, them wearing a Mantle of the Worldshaper, and having over 450 HP is kind of unfair.

Not to mention the STR damage to prevent you from repairing yourself.

Slayer Arrows are a poor way to improve ranged combat. They're ranging things. They aren't supposed to be as good as melee. With Slayer Arrows they become better than melee.

I'm just glad they don't get any stunning or trip arrows because then we'd really be screwed.

Any suggestions on ways Turbine should nerf this?

Also this is a PvP thread if you don't like it don't come to the PvP forums.

[Angelus_dead]

Yes, they are overpowered in PVP. (And also overpowered in PVE compared to other kinds of ranged weapon abilities)

But it's well-known that DDO's PVP design has paid minimal attention to balance.

[r3dl4nce]

Welcome to PvP in DDO, everything is unbalanced. I hope you enjoy your staying.

[h4x0r1f1c]

I would make a ranger myself but I'd hate playing it.

They can disable Slayer Arrows in PvP, or give you an immunity to it besides blocking.

I can't throw a Wall of Fire down there to catch 'em on their way down so they should accomodate.

[Waukeen]

I find it very funny that you are the leader of a guild called GRIEFERS and you are crying about someone able to stop a toaster cannon dead in PvP,

besides the obvious, who cares about PvP, and it is terribly tilted towards casters,

go get em arcane archers... pew pew pew!

[Phidius]

Better hope they come up with a Wish spell that will allow you to modify the game to fit the way you want to play it.

[Ystradmynach]

If you are really that concerned about a ranger four levels above you beating you, maybe you should ask them to fix deflect arrow. That and go pick up some bramble-casters. And memorize magic missile so you can take out their mantles.

And maybe change the pvp venue to another location where they can't just climb out to safety.

[RobbinB]

I could use the excuse that DDO is about PvE not PvP. But the truth is that slayer arrows are bad design...period.

Once you have slayer arrows they obsolete all other uses for any of the other available AA arrows...and the damage is always 500 pts...no save. They apply to absolutely everything. Terrible implimentation.

Arcane archers have 4 available arrow options based on force, fire, acid, and "fear/slayage" paths. All these options should have viable uses or strengths against certain monster types. One line might be the most average damage across the board, one huge damage but only against a small percentage of mobs, one a debuff-line, etc....

Instead we got slayer arrows...yikes! (I'd insert additional dev comments here but I'm not sure if new forum rules might apply)

[r3dl4nce]

slayer arraows is the only way that ranged can be useful in ddo

[Seamonkeysix]

I could use the excuse that DDO is about PvE not PvP. But the truth is that slayer arrows are bad design...period.

Once you have slayer arrows they obsolete all other uses for any of the other available AA arrows...and the damage is always 500 pts...no save. They apply to absolutely everything. Terrible implimentation.

Arcane archers have 4 available arrow options based on force, fire, acid, and "fear/slayage" paths. All these options should have viable uses or strengths against certain monster types. One line might be the most average damage across the board, one huge damage but only against a small percentage of mobs, one a debuff-line, etc....

Instead we got slayer arrows...yikes! (I'd insert additional dev comments here but I'm not sure if new forum rules might apply)

Right....and get rid of monk "touch of death" while you are at it...and polar ray...and vorpal...and lighting strike...and disintegration guard...and corrosive salt...and (insert any other massive damage ability). /sigh

Slaying arrows are the only real thing an archer has in DDO that actually helps put them anywhere close (and they are still far behind), in the DPS realm. Saying "OMG 500 points of damage!!!" is such an overstatement when you have bosses with a million hit points.

The only thing that you are saying by saying get rid of slaying arrows is that you don't have a ranged ranger and you don't get it. (Or that you are one of the 7 WF casters in the lobster doing PvP).

If slaying arrows were really overpowered, you'd see every competative, DPS loving twinkster in the game running around with them. When's the last time you saw and LFM saying, "Need as many AAs as possible with slaying arrow for DPS"?

That's what I thought...

[Ystradmynach]

I could use the excuse that DDO is about PvE not PvP. But the truth is that slayer arrows are bad design...period.

Once you have slayer arrows they obsolete all other uses for any of the other available AA arrows...and the damage is always 500 pts...no save. They apply to absolutely everything. Terrible implimentation.


But the imbues is the only ability that AA actually get from their PrE, aside from summoning a stack of arrows, which just a matter of convenience for the most part. Slayer arrows are dispellable and only works on a confirmed critical on a roll of a natural 20. Slayer arrow is not more powerful than an assassins ability to vorpal their weapons (which is only part of their PrE btw), or a monk's touch of death which they can use whenever they have the ki for it.

Anyway, I agree that a lot of the other imbues become almost obsolete at higher levels, but that is because the imbue doesn't scale. I think the other imbues should be treated like a real spell since they are dispelled like one, and we should be allowed to enhance the damage with items or metamagic feats.

[Holymosher]

im jsut stating a rangers, side of the story, without all those, we are totally gimped in partys, besides that we already sorda on, - my opinon, i love rangers in pvp there, fun, theres so much other stuff we lack than other classes, i got squelched today, cause someguy said i camped like a eagle and waited for ppl than jmuped down and killed them? i was like lol i was just having fun, rangers are so hated, we should be having upgrades, nto downgrades, wit all the hate we get, anyways, my advice to maker of thsi thread, shhh secret, neg level them, and go for the kill our weakness :)

[Holymosher]

slayer arraows is the only way that ranged can be useful in ddo

ya exactly, without slayer arrows, there might as well not be rangers in DDO

[Seamonkeysix]

im jsut stating a rangers, side of the story, without all those, we are totally gimped in partys, besides that we already sorda on, - my opinon, i love rangers in pvp there, fun, theres so much other stuff we lack than other classes, i got squelched today, cause someguy said i camped like a eagle and waited for ppl than jmuped down and killed them? i was like lol i was just having fun, rangers are so hated, we should be having upgrades, nto downgrades, wit all the hate we get, anyways, my advice to maker of thsi thread, shhh secret, neg level them, and go for the kill our weakness :)

From the standpoint of PvP, you can look at AAs as the "Dive bombers" of PvP. You scream in as fast as you can, drop your payload, hope you hit your target, and get the h*ll out. You don't buzz around and taunt the battleship. ;)

[AltheaSteelrain]

NO

It ruins the fun of using sprint + Fascinate + trip + Stun on an AA. LOL

[Karavek]

When a ranger uses Manyshot and Slayer Arrows in PvP they get a 20% chance to proc on you.

That along with their normal damage, them wearing a Mantle of the Worldshaper, and having over 450 HP is kind of unfair.

Not to mention the STR damage to prevent you from repairing yourself.

Slayer Arrows are a poor way to improve ranged combat. They're ranging things. They aren't supposed to be as good as melee. With Slayer Arrows they become better than melee.

I'm just glad they don't get any stunning or trip arrows because then we'd really be screwed.

Any suggestions on ways Turbine should nerf this?

Also this is a PvP thread if you don't like it don't come to the PvP forums.

As someone who wants to see pvp balanced I do feel what your saying on some aspects. However no by default melee is not suppose to be superior, its suppose to be equal.

Ranged should always be the ideal choice until one can close. Closing should be difficult, and if they ever give us good tactical terrain to pvp in then things like cliff edges and murder holes will really make you understand why being pure melee is not a good idea.

PVP balance will be one epic bit of work if they ever do try to do it at all. Which considering how few of us dare to post in the pvp forums, and how it dooms our rep here best you can do is speak and hope

[cpito]

slayer arrows is the only way that inexperienced ranged can be useful in ddo

fixed

[Memnir]

In PvP - there will always be something perceived as unfair that makes others cry, "nerf this! nerf this!"
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http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn12/EnPsyane/pvp.jpg
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Honestly, if you can't handle PvP without complaining about it - don't go in. I hate PvP, and I know this... so it always astounds me that the aficionados of it can't quite wrap their heads around that rather basic concept.

[sirgog]

Gotta love the trolling here.

It's the PvP forums, and a reasonable suggestion that, if restricted to PvP pits only, would improve the OP's fun without impacting yours at all.

[Memnir]

Gotta love the trolling here.

It's the PvP forums, and a reasonable suggestion that, if restricted to PvP pits only, would improve the OP's fun without impacting yours at all.Unless you are a Ranger who happens to have fun with Slayer Arrows. In that case, the OP's suggestion would rather be impacting their fun, no?

Besides, once the nerf train gets going in PvP... it won't stop. Nerf Slayer Arrows, nerf Touch of Death next. And then any other insta-death spells. Or massive damage spells. Or vorpals - because somebody might not have Deathward. etc etc etc


PvP is what it is. Either be okay with it, or avoid it.

[jcTharin]

PvP is what it is. Either be okay with it, or avoid it.

for me, PvP is jumping in and seeing how fast i can get killed.

so far the record is getting killed before i even reached the floor of the arena.

[Orratti]

Guess 500 hp lightning strikes are ok. Probably never get hit with any of those. If you are playing a caster in the arena it usually means that you need a good killing most of the time anyway. Glad there is someone there to oblidge you.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Try using stealth in PvP. It's a good way to understand how balanced PvP is for all classes.

[nanobot1994]

First of all, ill just say that I personally love pvp. I also realize its amazingly broken, me playing a wizzy and all. Ill also say I've been killed plenty of times by slayer arrows, though you don't see me whining on the forums about it.

First thing about pvp, don't start a fight with people you know you have 0 chance of beating, that is, don't fight the AA OP. Two, theres ALWAYS a way to beat anyone, what i do against AAs is, jump up on the platform. Rebuff/repair, jump in, dispel, MM, they may or may not fall into the hole/the opening near the back, this determines if you win or not. Now, wait on one of the far corners, spam him with polar-ray + scorching ray (No saves) when he trys to get back up, if you cant 1-shot/2-shot him, you need to redo your enhancements/get better gear. This makes you win, because you actually THINK about what you want to do, not just stand in one spot and spam random spells like an idiot (not assuming the OP did this).

Three, do you remember any melees you completely destroyed while being half-asleep? Do you see them whining about it, and make 3 threads to nerf spells? No, I haven't myself.

PvP is lot more strategic if you want it to be, and if it has a need to be, i.e when you're facing someone that presents a real threat.

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT - Next time you get killed in pvp, send a tell to the person saying 'nice job' or something along the lines of that, usually prevents you from getting ripped apart, over and over again.

[Raveolution]

slayer arrows and or light 2 bow are overpowered in pvp. Power word spells and otto irres are overpowered in pvp. Infinite lay on hands and clickies use are overpowered in pvp. 500 hp monk fist is overpowered in pvp. All pvp system is totally unbalanced. Some classes like arcane casters or arcane archers are overpowered , some others like rogues are useless. When you go in lobster you should accept all this unbalanced system, and just have fun even if u die.

[96th_Malice]

To the Original Poster

Dance, FTS, Improved Trip. Searing Light are all spells that still to this day my archers hate !

Some are annoying some leave me defensless some right out kill me

I gotta tell ya

Me having archers with slaying arrows does not by any means make me more powerful that anyone else

WHAT IT DOES DO HOWEVER ....

It makes the person who is about to attack any of my toons think twice about it. I gotta tell you since slayer arrows came out I rarely get jumped anymore ( ecept by a few toons I have upset over the years ! )

:)

On a side note I do get /telled " What lvl are you?" alot more ..... If my toon is below 18th peeps always come charging lol !

On a LAST note ... feel free to hop into the Lobster on Khyber ..... I dont need slaying arrows to make you die ... FACT !

:)

Have fun and remember ...... Its just a game .... breathe !!

[Fomori]

ya exactly, without slayer arrows, there might as well not be rangers in DDO
Remember that rangers in DDO (or DnD for that matter) are based off of the rangers from Tolkein. They are known more for their melee prowess and ability to hide and stalk in the woods. The name has nothing to do them 'ranging' attacks. That seems to be a HUGE misconception from newer players.

Thus my point is that rangers are melee AND ranged all in 1 package. The PrE lines of AA and Tempest just let you specialize those combat functions without hampering the other.

As to the OP, the slaying arrows are not overpowered in concept but perhaps in implementation. Even that however is subject to discussion since PvP was put in to add flavor to the game not as a main drawing point. The most common function of PvP is really to test how items/spells/effects/etc work with someone that can give numerical feedback.

[h4x0r1f1c]

As the title says. No more Slayer Arrows. Allow more crits.

PvP people can get 100% Fortification. PvE you'll crit more.

You guys can discuss the numbers alls I know is that it's the best of both worlds.

[ragwa1]

True dat. I've got 561 HP with Rage.

I don't deserve to be 1shot by a Manyshot with a Slayer Arrow proc.

They always run up top and wait 2 minutes to try it again and only when I'm fighting someone else. :(

Only 561? what's your build?

[Spoprockel]

Did you ever think about the possibility that those AA are out for you just because of all those posts?

PvP means nothing in this game and nobody will ever change anything to balance pvp.

If it means that much to you i'd strongly recommend playing another game that is balanced for PvP.

[AndyD47]

Does shield blocking negate the whole slayer arrow bit?

[heyytoi]

Does shield blocking negate the whole slayer arrow bit?

yes, but apparently its still way too overpowered for his 561 hp

[h4x0r1f1c]

Only 561? what's your build?

Only? lol I'm a sorcerer.

[Creeper]

True dat. I've got 561 HP with Rage.

I don't deserve to be 1shot by a Manyshot with a Slayer Arrow proc.

They always run up top and wait 2 minutes to try it again and only when I'm fighting someone else. :(

Buddy, it's not slayer arrows that are killing you; it's manyshot that is killing you; it's distance that is killing you. 561 hps is not enough to survive manyshot even without slayer arrows, it's not enough to survive many spell crits either. Shield block until manyshot runs out or get yourself a wounding repeater or roll an AA or caster.



I spend all day every day in PvP. I know what's fair and unfair.


I seriously and helpfully recommend trying another game until DDO PVP is "balanced". Warhammer Online and World of Warcraft have thriving PVP communities and these games actually tool their combat systems with some ear toward PVPers. DDO does not "balance" with PVP in mind and that is what a lot of people like about it. DDO is balanced toward PVE.

I know that other smart people have recommended this to you before.

[h4x0r1f1c]

Buddy, it's not slayer arrows that are killing you; it's manyshot that is killing you; it's distance that is killing you. 561 hps is not enough to survive manyshot even without slayer arrows

You're very wrong, in my case. I have Reconstruct and Repair Critical Wounds.

The 2nd best ranger on Sarlona has hit me with his Epic Thornlord and Force imbue stuff only. No slayers, no stat damage. I survived.

I'm a sorcerer so I cast fast. I have full Force/Repair amplification aside from my 100% Fire/Ice specc. I survive his Manyshot. I've survived the best ranger's Manyshot too but he doesn't have an Epic Thornlord.

He would do more than the 2nd best because he's a monster-build elf AA instead of Tempest and he's got Kensai Powersurge and built it right.

As for the distance... no. I have Enlarge too.

[khaldan]

You can get a Mantle of the Worldshaper for that. Also using Polar Ray on a ranger is suicide.

It's slower than Scorching Ray and you can easily miss with it.

Because it's hard to drain all 5 charges?

Wow, no wonder you hate the ioun stone.

[TheDearLeader]

aside from my 100% Fire/Ice specc.

I've seen your fire spells. I'd be very shocked to find you've fully tiered them up on your enhancements.

In fact.. maybe I should hop on over to the character planner, and see if that even feasibly possible.

Oh wait. Right. This isn't a PvP game. As long as you're not in one of my parties for a quest (which is fine, because I doubt I'll find you in epics. Or Amrath. Or .. anything a toon of appropriate level will do), you can keep the Lobster. Ala'kia D'agon and Brother Tanglewood will be your best friends. They won't judge.

'Scuse me while I go Shadow-hump Horoth for a spell. Who? Don't worry about it. You'll never have a need to know.

[h4x0r1f1c]

I've seen your fire spells. I'd be very shocked to find you've fully tiered them up on your enhancements.

In fact.. maybe I should hop on over to the character planner, and see if that even feasibly possible.

Oh wait. Right. This isn't a PvP game. As long as you're not in one of my parties for a quest (which is fine, because I doubt I'll find you in epics. Or Amrath. Or .. anything a toon of appropriate level will do), you can keep the Lobster. Ala'kia D'agon and Brother Tanglewood will be your best friends. They won't judge.

'Scuse me while I go Shadow-hump Horoth for a spell. Who? Don't worry about it. You'll never have a need to know.

I have all 3 crit chance enhancements, all 3 crit multiplier enhancements, and all 4 damage amplification enhancements for fire/ice.

I don't think you've ever lasted long enough to see my fire damage with your 332 HP.

[AyumiAmakusa]

Only? lol I'm a sorcerer.

So as a Sorceror you can't win in PvP??

[h4x0r1f1c]

So as a Sorceror you can't win in PvP??

It was meant to explain that having 561 HP is a good thing because I'm a sorcerer.

Name 1 other sorcerer on any server than has even 500. Plus I can win at PvP, just trying to even the odds against people who hop down when you're busy, 'nab a kill and jump right back up before you get any SP back.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Only 561? what's your build?

I think he's only like L12

[Orratti]

Solution to your problem has already been put forth. It's called Aiming. Where the archer has to put their circle target onto each enemy before they can lock them in to fire. As long as it is designed so that you cannot aim and lock onto target before leaving the platform then you can foil them easily simply by moving around and keeping them from getting a lock on you while you pound them into the ground. Add this mechanic and you will see as many archers in pvp as you see backstabbing rogues and songplaying bards. Then you can be free to own the arena again and the rest of us could up our RoF, shorten our manyshot timers, and keep our slayer arrows.

[sweez]

The 2nd best ranger on Sarlona

You have a player ladder on Sarlona? Awesome.

[fishbai8]

You're very wrong, in my case. I have Reconstruct and Repair Critical Wounds.

The 2nd best ranger on Sarlona has hit me with his Epic Thornlord and Force imbue stuff only. No slayers, no stat damage. I survived.

I'm a sorcerer so I cast fast. I have full Force/Repair amplification aside from my 100% Fire/Ice specc. I survive his Manyshot. I've survived the best ranger's Manyshot too but he doesn't have an Epic Thornlord.

He would do more than the 2nd best because he's a monster-build elf AA instead of Tempest and he's got Kensai Powersurge and built it right.

As for the distance... no. I have Enlarge too.

Neither of aforementioned players are near the 2nd best ranged DPS.

[memoriesfade]

Shield block, and displacement there you go you survived a manyshot.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I have all 3 crit chance enhancements, all 3 crit multiplier enhancements, and all 4 damage amplification enhancements for fire/ice.

I don't think you've ever lasted long enough to see my fire damage with your 332 HP.

So you are now recommending we nerf casters?

[h4x0r1f1c]

Shield block, and displacement there you go you survived a manyshot.

Oh wow I never thought of that before.
(sorry I had to be sarcastic don't take it personal if you were serious)

True Seeing / DM's Vision negate Displacement

Shield block isn't good enough.

You guys should roll casters and PvP on Sarlona I'll point things out to you and say "go survive that" and ask how you weren't able to do it.

[Vengeance777]

It was meant to explain that having 561 HP is a good thing because I'm a sorcerer.

Name 1 other sorcerer on any server than has even 500. Plus I can win at PvP, just trying to even the odds against people who hop down when you're busy, 'nab a kill and jump right back up before you get any SP back.

My Drow elf sorc can break 500. 427 default hp ( 15 base con, GS Hp Helm, +2 Exceptional con on tod ring, Toughness/ Con 6/ GFL on Epic Items, Toughness and racial tiers in toughness enhancements) , 467 with yugo pot, 487 with guild con buff, 507 with rage add false life clicky, gh, aid and other temp hit point buffs and I can get near 561. She can no fail heal with scrolls, has 39-40 DC on all spells, decent saves, and has a Lorrick's Champion (20th hound ) so not worried about slayer arrows. I built her for epic content where hp is a must.

As for pvp arcane archers, shield block and heal yourself, as soon as manyshot runs out 1 magic missile to drain their mantle then hypno, hold, or flesh to stone them. If they have an Ioun stone 1 metrorswarm/mm combo will drain it. Best to immediately ottos irr dance them when you stop there movement so you have a full 20 seconds to kill them incase they save against the hold. Stoneskin and shield dr should really mitigate damage from the arrows add epic bramble casters and you'll survive even easier. Heck drop down behind the walls in the lobster that provides ample protection lol. If I can heal myself with heal scrolls through archer arrows a warforged can certainly keep himself up with reconstruct shield blocking.

The only characters I know of that can successfully take down a prepared sorc in pvp is a Wizard that can swap in spells that work well in pvp but not pve or another sorc. Though I've met a few Favored Souls that can kill sorcs as well by winging, self healing, and spamming cometfalls/searing lights. Arcane archers can only kill casters if they are unprepared, and when you see a ranger standing on the balcony of the wayward lobster be prepared if your into pvp. Unless the caster is caught off guard or busy fighting someone else no melee or ranger is going to kill them in pvp. If anything should get nerfed for pvp its casters not rangers. And that can easily be done by making certain spells not work in pvp leaving pve unaffected.

[h4x0r1f1c]

My Drow elf sorc can break 500. 427 default hp, 467 with pot, 487 with guild con buff, 507 with rage add false life clicky, gh, aid and other temp hit point buffs and I can get near 561. She can no fail heal with scrolls, has 39-40 DC on all spells, decent saves, and has a Lorrick's Champion (20th hound ) so not worried about slayer arrows. I built her for epic content where hp is a must.

As for pvp arcane archers, shield block and heal yourself, as soon as manyshot runs out 1 magic missile to drain their mantle then hypno, hold, or flesh to stone them. If they have an Ioun stone 1 metrorswarm/mm combo will drain it. Best to immediately ottos irr dance them when you stop there movement so you have a full 20 seconds to kill them incase they save against the hold. Stoneskin and shield dr should really mitigate damage from the arrows add epic bramble casters and you'll survive even easier. If I can heal myself with heal scrolls through archer arrows a warforged can certainly keep himself up with reconstruct shield blocking.

The only characters I know of that can successfully take down a prepared sorc in pvp is a Wizard that can swap in spells that work well in pvp but not pve or another sorc. Though I've met a few Favored Souls that can kill sorcs as well by winging, self healing, and spamming cometfalls/searing lights. Arcane archers can only kill casters if they are unprepared, and when you see a ranger standing on the balcony of the wayward lobster be prepared if your into pvp. If anything should get nerfed for pvp its casters not rangers. And that can easily be done by making certain spells not work in pvp leaving pve unaffected.

I respect that you know more than what other people have suggested but I've tried it all.

There is no surviving it without healing. When you do heal, that's when it procs.

If you outlast the Slayer Arrows then the STR damage makes you unable to cast.

I always MM first to take down their Mantle. If they have a Pale Lavender Ioun Stone you still have to hit them (assuming you somehow survived) and then they'll be out of there if they're smart.

Let's say they stay in the pit and you do hit them. With Quicken on (which you must have) Meteor Swarm only does 3 meteors, not 4 like it does without.

Most of the holds you suggested won't work because of Freedom of Movement.

The Hypno would require Heighten which would mean losing HP I use to survive.

Not to sound like I'm bragging but PvP-wise I'm the best caster on Sarlona.

I've been PvPing every day for a long time. Slayer Arrows are OP and there's no denying it.

[CaptainCameo]

You guys want arcane archers to be nerfed but say they're **** dps.

Yeah... um... I think they just proved you wrong. Again. And again. And again.

[Stormanne]

Slayer Arrows are OP and there's no denying it.

So, one high power attack is OP, but none of the highly powerful attacks that a sorc brings to the table are? You are a hypocrite. It's perfectly fine for you to have overpowered attacks that can do, after you've debuffed them and frozen them in place, thousands of points of damage or cause instant death, but as soon as someone else does, you cry foul. Yup, clearly a hypocrite.

[khaldan]

I respect that you know more than what other people have suggested but I've tried it all.

There is no surviving it without healing. When you do heal, that's when it procs.

If you outlast the Slayer Arrows then the STR damage makes you unable to cast.

I always MM first to take down their Mantle. If they have a Pale Lavender Ioun Stone you still have to hit them (assuming you somehow survived) and then they'll be out of there if they're smart.

Let's say they stay in the pit and you do hit them. With Quicken on (which you must have) Meteor Swarm only does 3 meteors, not 4 like it does without.

Most of the holds you suggested won't work because of Freedom of Movement.

The Hypno would require Heighten which would mean losing HP I use to survive.

Not to sound like I'm bragging but PvP-wise I'm the best caster on Sarlona.

I've been PvPing every day for a long time. Slayer Arrows are OP and there's no denying it.

Waves/jump behind the pit area, or into the pit. Then kite til MS is gone.

Not hard.

[h4x0r1f1c]

You guys want arcane archers to be nerfed but say they're **** dps.

Yeah... um... I think they just proved you wrong. Again. And again. And again.

What? I don't talk about their DPS I talk about their Slayer Arrows.

There are some people who say their damage needs increased and there are some who say Slayer Arrows need nerfing. I don't mind both happening so long as the Slayer Arrows become more survivable.

[Vengeance777]

I respect that you know more than what other people have suggested but I've tried it all.

There is no surviving it without healing. When you do heal, that's when it procs.

If you outlast the Slayer Arrows then the STR damage makes you unable to cast.

I always MM first to take down their Mantle. If they have a Pale Lavender Ioun Stone you still have to hit them (assuming you somehow survive which you never do) and then they'll be out of there if they're smart.

Let's say they stay in the pit and you do hit them. With Quicken on (which you must have) Meteor Swarm only does 3 meteors, not 4 like it does without.

Most of the holds you suggested won't work because of Freedom of Movement.

The Hypno would require Heighten which would mean losing HP I use to survive.

Not to sound like I'm bragging but PvP-wise I'm the best caster on Sarlona.

I've been PvPing every day for a long time. Slayer Arrows are OP and there's no denying it.


You really need heighten as a sorc, especially for epics. Can't mass hold, mass charm, hypno, web, dancing sphere, or do any effective high level crowd control without it. As a side effect Heighten will let you hypno pretty much any class in the game in pvp which works on all races and against freedom of movement. As a hasted sorc you should be casting fast enough in the game to never need quicken unless you need it to cast interrupted spells in which case you should invest in concentration. I've never needed quicken on a sorc and never will.

[elricken]

Please tell me the majority of Sarlona's sorcs take heighten over quicken.

Yes, at least the good ones do.

[bendover]

Please tell me the majority of Sarlona's sorcs take heighten over quicken.

I value Heighten. I think it's a GREAT metamagic that might be very underrated and in Epic difficulty any extra to their DC's help. Most of the casters I run with don't seem to have any troubles with their DC checks so I would assume so.

[Hokiewa]

You're very wrong, in my case. I have Reconstruct and Repair Critical Wounds.

The 2nd best ranger on Sarlona has hit me with his Epic Thornlord and Force imbue stuff only. No slayers, no stat damage. I survived.



Qualify your opinion as the 2nd best ranger. Same goes for your assertion that there isn't a sorceror with over 500hp on any server.

Your misguided. You don't play with the top end and the top end don't pvp...:rolleyes:

[Creeper]

You're very wrong, in my case. I have Reconstruct and Repair Critical Wounds.


I am very wrong?

[Vengeance777]

I respect that you know more than what other people have suggested but I've tried it all.

There is no surviving it without healing. When you do heal, that's when it procs.

If you outlast the Slayer Arrows then the STR damage makes you unable to cast.


Whats your characters strength at? My drow seems to do ok with 17 str, I've never been unable to move after being hit with the arrows even with str damage. Has your character eaten a +2 str tome. If not buy one and eat it, 2 more points in str should help you survive against -str arrows.

[h4x0r1f1c]

I am very wrong?

Yeah you're the one I quoted and explained all that stuff to.

[Creeper]

Yeah you're the one I quoted and explained all that stuff to.

But aren't you (not me) the one that keeps getting killed by slaying arrows?

[h4x0r1f1c]

But aren't you (not me) the one that keeps getting killed by slaying arrows?

Roll a WF sorc on Sarlona and fight the guys I fight k.

[Creeper]

Roll a WF sorc on Sarlona and fight the guys I fight k.

Every server has players with Slayer arrows.

[Ninety0ne]

call it naive curiousity, but why would you waste time in pvp? Is there some payout i'm unaware of?

[Bigrtt]

As the title says. No more Slayer Arrows. Allow more crits.

PvP people can get 100% Fortification. PvE you'll crit more.

You guys can discuss the numbers alls I know is that it's the best of both worlds.

How about no? Instead of nerfing a whole player base just so you can kill someone and be 'uber pvper', why not get a group going and go into your OWN pvp area where there's NO rangers/casters/whatever to kill you instantly. This isn't a pvp based game, and I love it for that.

[andbr22]

Also Hax keep in mind that your race have few disadvantages in PvP.
Constructs are often choosen Favorite enemies (unlike elves, humans, dwarfs, healflings).
And your reconstruction have major flaw compared to squishies useing Heal scrolls. It do not cure your ability dmg. That why you end up without Str.

You want to erease only worhtwile AA skill and give NOTHING in terms of PvP, and Propably decreasing usefullnes in PvE (for sure thoes nasty 50%-100% fort creatures will now laught at Pew Pewer).

Let me trow some idea -> lets double every weapon crit range but only in PvP.
...
...
...
Ok guys now you can stop laught.

[Holymosher]

Personally they'll never change it for a pvp opinon, I think they center it for sure off questing not pvp. I think slayer arrows are great for aa it's practically all they have. Believe me I know from personal experience lol, to my suggestion to you is to try to ditch the pvp

[h4x0r1f1c]

Okay y'all say no nerfs, right? Fine. You guys also hate PvP so no need to use Manyshot in there right?

My reason for this is there are people who inch their way towards the opening of the PvP area in The Wayward Lobster, select you, and back away.

Meanwhile, you're minding your own business being cool w/ over 600 HP and stuff then zoom! A ranger runs through the door, into the pit, throwing CON damage and Slayer Arrows and Lightning Strike at you while hopping around.

You block, going all "w-t-f man" and try to select them but halflings are so tiny you can't and they have a Mantle of the Worldshaper so you have to throw Magic Missile at them before you can stun, right?

Well they also have Favored Enemy Construct and even though you threw a Reconstruct boom! Slayer Arrows.. like always.

You go up top feeling all "Wow how lame seriously they don't come when I'm sitting there blocking waiting for them they gotta' ambush and run out how weak otherwise I'd own them" and some do and you prove it to them. Most just gank and wait 2 minutes to try again.

Well, if rangers are so weak they need Manyshot in PvE that's fine with me. Don't let it be used in Public Places though.

Otherwise, let me throw Wall of Fire down all over the front so it'll drain some of their charges when they run in.

Also, I used to monitor them. When I saw one from the Search thing appear in a quest I'd be all relaxed. When I saw they were in the lobster I got ready. Now they set themselves to Anonymous and send other people in first to distract me.

[Chai]

Yeah, it sure sucks that you lose in PVP once in a while. Live with it or dont PVP.

-or-

Roll up a ranger and start complaining about warforged casters that stun lock you all the time.

[h4x0r1f1c]

Yeah, it sure sucks that you lose in PVP once in a while. Live with it or dont PVP.

-or-

Roll up a ranger and start complaining about warforged casters that stun lock you all the time.

If I were to make a ranger I'd be PWS immune and not rely on Slayer Arrows or cheap tricks.

I can survive this guy's Epic Thornlord with Force stuff on it, without using a shield.

http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/ratthlin

(just not with Slayer Arrows on) He's one of the top 2 rangers on Sarlona.

[fishbai8]

He's one of the top 2 rangers on Sarlona.

Lol. Orly?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

He's one of the top 2 rangers on Sarlona.

Just out of curriousity, how did you manage to rank all the rangers on Sarlona?

[Chai]

If I were to make a ranger I'd be PWS immune and not rely on Slayer Arrows or cheap tricks.

I can survive this guy's Epic Thornlord with Force stuff on it, without using a shield.

http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/ratthlin

(just not with Slayer Arrows on) He's one of the top 2 rangers on Sarlona.

Cheap tricks?

Anything a class can do isnt cheap. I like how every single game there are a number of PVP groaners who call it cheap when they die because they cant stand the fact that they cant build the unbeatable PVP toon. They will gravitate to the most OP thing out there that can kill 9 out of 10 other builds, and then get all bHurt when the 1 of 10 strolls in and puts them down like a sick dog.

In a game that actually gets balanced for PVP, its even worse for you because when you do go all out and build for the most powerful thing out there it just gets nerfed due to other PVP moaners who arent playing the flavor of the PVP month getting sick of you killing them with ease. Then you have to gravitate to the new most OP PVP toy of the next month, or understand you will lose alot more in PVP post nerf.

Be careful what you ask for. If you start (or continue) moaning about PVP balance, they will "balance" you as well, and next thing you know, your "cheap tricks" no longer work either...

[Ague]

I'm kind of wondering why you are so obsessed with PvP? Take a look at DDO's big picture. There are 100+ individual quests to play not including explorer areas. The extreme majority of said quests and areas have things to kill (I can only think of one off the top of my head that has no enemies).

PvP in DDO is basically the same as that hidden puzzle game in the original Final Fantasy on NES. Just something different to break up the monotony of heavy questing. Its' being there really has no impact on the actual game or it's forward progression.

If you are trying to achieve ultimate bragging rights, then maybe you should perfect the ultimate PvP build, because, quite frankly, I'm tired of reading your crying about {nerf this bc...}, {this isn't fair bc...}. If you're doing so bad in the arena then maybe you should stop going in there.

phew... now that I got that out of my system... hey devs, nerf PvP... :eek:

Afterthought: Why are there several threads started by you in various forums throughout this site on this very topic (complaining about PvP)? You should keep posts of this topic in the PvP forum (http://forums.ddo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=184) where ppl might not hate on you so much...

[Visty]

just that you know: you CAN use firewall in pvp

you just have to be in the pvp areas and not the brawls

same goes if you dont want to be attacked by strangers: get into your private pvp area with your friends and noone will disturb you

problem solved, no fix needed and you finally can stop posting that nonsense

[cdbd3rd]

... You guys also hate PvP ....


Getting there. Used to be a tolerant disdain, but every thread like this...

Yeah.

[Yazston_the_Invoker]

Sorcerer. (harder to have that much HP compared to a wizard because they get their metamagics free and sorcs don't so less Toughness feats)

Also if getting jump from the doorway ONLY when I'm fighting someone else and then them running out is called getting pwned then yes I have a problem with getting pwned.

So, let me get this straight...you make yourself a target on the forums, you give people a simple strategy as to how to pwn you, and then you use a HP gimped WF sorc, (because getting over 600HP is obviously the most important thing for a sorc) and then say that Rangers need to lose their most useful ability when in PvP, just so that you can survive...

I sooooo want to give you a +1 for the laughs, but my good sense tells me otherwise... :D

Well, I'll second your suggestion IF Clerics, FvS, Bards, Wizards, and Sorcs lose the ability to cast, rogues lose sneak attack, Barbs lose rage, paladins lose spells and cha bonus to saves, fighters lose 6 randomly chosen feats, and all d10/d12 HP classes lose 4HP per level. That way, we'll all be on equal footing, no? Balance, so to say...

[Phidius]

...
You should keep posts of this topic in the PvP forum (http://forums.ddo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=184) where ppl might not hate on you so much...

It's way too late for that.

[Nott]

I suppose rangers are the only class that can take you on? If rangers get nerfed, no class can take you on, then guess what: it'll be your turn to be nerfed.

Are you saying that noone can beat rangers at PvP? I would imaging that there must be some class that can stand up to the ranger, and your WF sorc can probably stand up to that class. Ever hear of the game Rock-Paper-Scissors?

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

So, let me get this straight...you make yourself a target on the forums, you give people a simple strategy as to how to pwn you, and then you use a HP gimped WF sorc, (because getting over 600HP is obviously the most important thing for a sorc) and then say that Rangers need to lose their most useful ability when in PvP, just so that you can survive...

I sooooo want to give you a +1 for the laughs, but my good sense tells me otherwise... :D

Well, I'll second your suggestion IF Clerics, FvS, Bards, Wizards, and Sorcs lose the ability to cast, rogues lose sneak attack, Barbs lose rage, paladins lose spells and cha bonus to saves, fighters lose 6 randomly chosen feats, and all d10/d12 HP classes lose 4HP per level. That way, we'll all be on equal footing, no? Balance, so to say...

Monks lose unarmed combat too right?

[Yazston_the_Invoker]

Monks lose unarmed combat too right?

Ooh...forgot about that...methinks just reducing their unarmed dice and removing any of their ki powers would suffice. :D

Thanks for pointing that out...wouldn't want the OP to get pwn'd by monks now...

[Jacaroma]

It seems like you need to be asked the most important question about PvP... Umadbro?

[Glenalth]

Okay y'all say no nerfs, right? Fine. You guys also hate PvP so no need to use Manyshot in there right?

My reason for this is there are people who inch their way towards the opening of the PvP area in The Wayward Lobster, select you, and back away.

Meanwhile, you're minding your own business being cool w/ over 600 HP and stuff then zoom! A ranger runs through the door, into the pit, throwing CON damage and Slayer Arrows and Lightning Strike at you while hopping around.

You block, going all "w-t-f man" and try to select them but halflings are so tiny you can't and they have a Mantle of the Worldshaper so you have to throw Magic Missile at them before you can stun, right?

Well they also have Favored Enemy Construct and even though you threw a Reconstruct boom! Slayer Arrows.. like always.

You go up top feeling all "Wow how lame seriously they don't come when I'm sitting there blocking waiting for them they gotta' ambush and run out how weak otherwise I'd own them" and some do and you prove it to them. Most just gank and wait 2 minutes to try again.

Well, if rangers are so weak they need Manyshot in PvE that's fine with me. Don't let it be used in Public Places though.

Otherwise, let me throw Wall of Fire down all over the front so it'll drain some of their charges when they run in.

Also, I used to monitor them. When I saw one from the Search thing appear in a quest I'd be all relaxed. When I saw they were in the lobster I got ready. Now they set themselves to Anonymous and send other people in first to distract me.

Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge.

[Memnir]

No thank you.
Many Shot is WAI, and is a key feature of the Ranger class.
Since you seem to have difficulty in dealing with that particular class feature - may I suggest either stop PvPing with Rangers, or find another way of dealing with it.

[stainer]

Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge.

http://video.adultswim.com/metalocalypse/sandusky-ohio.html

Reminds me of this.

[PopeJual]

If I were to make a ranger I'd be PWS immune and not rely on Slayer Arrows or cheap tricks.

Then why are you playing a WF arcane caster in the PvP arena?
Cheap tricks are what casters are all about in PvP.

[Healsavant]

Once the update comes out and monks can stun from a distance he will have something to complain about other than me, sorry to all that are negatively affected by his posts, for it was me that created this monster :(

[Glenalth]

Once the update comes out and monks can stun from a distance he will have something to complain about other than me, sorry to all that are negatively affected by his posts, for it was me that created this monster :(

Can you teach him how to dodge? Would probably clear up at least 1/2 of his posts.

[Stormanne]

You know, this has probably been said before, but I think I have this guy figured out. The reason he sticks around and keeps making so many PvP suggestions (read: desired nerfs to everyone and everything but him) is that he has gone and played all the games we keep directing him too (WoW, WAR, AoC, etc.) . And in doing so, keeps getting his posterior royally wrecked. Only by coming to a game that has PvP only as an afterthought, can he get the fulfillment he so desperately desires...the feeling of being the best. Unfortunately and sadly, he's the best at something that so very few us care about.

[Glenalth]

You know, this has probably been said before, but I think I have this guy figured out. The reason he sticks around and keeps making so many PvP suggestions (read: desired nerfs to everyone and everything but him) is that he has gone and played all the games we keep directing him too (WoW, WAR, AoC, etc.) . And in doing so, keeps getting his posterior royally wrecked. Only by coming to a game that has PvP only as an afterthought, can he get the fulfillment he so desperately desires...the feeling of being the best. Unfortunately and sadly, he's the best at something that so very few us care about.

The best other than Arcane Archers apparently.

[Stormanne]

The best other than Arcane Archers apparently.

touche

[Chai]

You know, this has probably been said before, but I think I have this guy figured out. The reason he sticks around and keeps making so many PvP suggestions (read: desired nerfs to everyone and everything but him) is that he has gone and played all the games we keep directing him too (WoW, WAR, AoC, etc.) . And in doing so, keeps getting his posterior royally wrecked. Only by coming to a game that has PvP only as an afterthought, can he get the fulfillment he so desperately desires...the feeling of being the best. Unfortunately and sadly, he's the best at something that so very few us care about.

The best at being a pincushion for level 18+ rangers....

In PVP the reality is there is always someone who can beat you due to their class having the tools to own your class, regardless of skill. This is true in all those other games as well.

Want to know what hell looks like for a PVPer in WOW. They get killed by hunters so often they get fed up and peeved, so they roll up a hunter because they think its so great. Then they learn how rogues stun lock hunters to death every time, get sick of that, so they grind out an uber rogue, only to learn about how shaman and paladins can just green rogues sans effort. After they grind out that uber paladin, they get flogged repeatedly by that same hunter run and shoot tactic....

There is no such thing a being unkillable in PVP games. The minute there is, the nerf bat swings.

This guy should be happy that rangers are the only thing his WF sorc has a hard time with....

[Stormanne]

The best at being a pincushion for level 18+ rangers....

In PVP the reality is there is always someone who can beat you due to their class having the tools to own your class, regardless of skill. This is true in all those other games as well.

Want to know what hell looks like for a PVPer in WOW. They get killed by hunters so often they get fed up and peeved, so they roll up a hunter because they think its so great. Then they learn how rogues stun lock hunters to death every time, get sick of that, so they grind out an uber rogue, only to learn about how shaman and paladins can just green rogues sans effort. After they grind out that uber paladin, they get flogged repeatedly by that same hunter run and shoot tactic....

There is no such thing a being unkillable in PVP games. The minute there is, the nerf bat swings.

This guy should be happy that rangers are the only thing his WF sorc has a hard time with....

I know, those other games are balanced and re-balanced to keep it from being lopsided for any one class.

Something that just occurred to me, and those that are more lore savvy can correct me if I'm wrong. With him being a WF, shouldn't he be more worried about Smiting weapons. And, given that the WF aren't technically alive, but merely sentient, shouldn't death ward/death block and bypassing it be a non-issue for him. Meh, probably just semantics or not fitting with lore...

[Glenalth]

I know, those other games are balanced and re-balanced to keep it from being lopsided for any one class.

Something that just occurred to me, and those that are more lore savvy can correct me if I'm wrong. With him being a WF, shouldn't he be more worried about Smiting weapons. And, given that the WF aren't technically alive, but merely sentient, shouldn't death ward/death block and bypassing it be a non-issue for him. Meh, probably just semantics or not fitting with lore...

Deathblock stops smiting, just like it stops vorpal.

Warforged are living beings, they even get the Living Construct creature type.

[ThePrincipal]

Dispel is so funny in pvp. I watch him dance and stunn lvl 7 fighters then just jump down and gank him. Play like a dog, die like a dog.

[96th_Malice]

Okay y'all say no nerfs, right? Fine. You guys also hate PvP so no need to use Manyshot in there right?

Well, if rangers are so weak they need Manyshot in PvE that's fine with me. Don't let it be used in Public Places though.

First ... if the rangers are so weak ...... how come every single post you put up here in the PvP forums your trying to nerf their feats and abilities ?

Second .... Your whining about archers is starting to bore me ...... I have 13 of em and PvP with 8 of them and I love it and believe me "your type" of toons can most definitly beat any AA ... You just need to figure out what works best for you

Loose manyshot in public areas LOL .... Hehe you melee types can be silly sometimes!


:)

[CaptainCameo]

I'm not an arcane archer. But I am a ranger, so manyshot comes naturally to me. At lvl 14, It was possible for me to beat lvl 20 monks and fighters because: 1, I could hold my own in close combat and 2, I had manyshot to blast them while I was running away. I still died many times though because those people were skilled.

Now explain to me why we should nerf archers, when all you have to do is be slightly sneaky and trip them from behind? They can't fire many arrows on their backs. Or did you not think of that?

[stoopid_cowboy]

With a Superior Freeze III and the Sorcerer Capstone I've hit for 1,750-something on PvPers.



So you think slaying arrows need to be nerfed because the 500hp they deal is overpowered? Dood please.....
Your polar ray can crit for over 3 TIMES the damage of a slaying arrow. What is next? My barbarian can crit for 500+ with a minII GA. That mean I should PvP with a nerf bat from now on?

Anyone up for a ToD?

[sephiroth1084]

I find it ridiculous that a sorcerer is complaining about a ranger. Hax, learn how to play your class.

[cpito]

Name 1 other sorcerer on any server than has even 500.

LOL I can name about 8 on Ghallanda just off the top of my head. If I thought about it and asked around, I would find a whole lot more than that. Stop thinking that a wf sorc with 500+ hp is an original thing in this game.

[Astraghal]

*DISCLAIMER (for the politically correct, trolls, moderators and fanboys): It is not my intention to insult anyone or portray DDO in a negative light. This is just my opinion, there is no reason for this post to be removed or for me to recieve a warning.*


There is zero skill in PvP. There is next to no skill involved in playing casters at all. In fact very little skill is required for DDO in general. This is mainly due to the game mechanics and the fact that you are always facing AI opponents.

Once you grind the gear, learn the maps, the spawn points, the number behind the mobs and the patterns of the AI, the only meaningful variables are whether you rolled a 1 or a 20.

If you want to compete in a battle of wits and hand-eye coordination against real human opponents, take your bunny hopping and circle strafing skills and go play Quake Live!

I'd like to see how long most people who play DDO would last in an FPS.

Not long I imagine, considering what seems to qualify as skill in this game. ;)

[flynnjsw]

*DISCLAIMER (for the politically correct, trolls, moderators and fanboys): It is not my intention to insult anyone or portray DDO in a negative light. This is just my opinion, there is no reason for this post to be removed or for me to recieve a warning.*


There is zero skill in PvP. There is next to no skill involved in playing casters at all. In fact very little skill is required for DDO in general. This is mainly due to the game mechanics and the fact that you are always facing AI opponents.

Once you grind the gear, learn the maps, the spawn points, the number behind the mobs and the patterns of the AI, the only meaningful variables are whether you rolled a 1 or a 20.

If you want to compete in a battle of wits and hand-eye coordination against real human opponents, take your bunny hopping and circle strafing skills and go play Quake Live!

I'd like to see how long most people who play DDO would last in an FPS.

Not long I imagine, considering what seems to qualify as skill in this game. ;)

My other game is CoD4. My online gaming addiction actually came from CS, DoD, and the other Valve games before I switched to SOCOM, and then to CoD4.

I actually used to detest MMO's because of PvP. This game's lack of focus on PvP was one of the biggest draws for me.

[Creeper]

I'd like to see how long most people who play DDO would last in an FPS.

Not long I imagine, considering what seems to qualify as skill in this game. ;)


By "most people who play DDO" you mean yourself right?

[Astraghal]

My other game is CoD4. My online gaming addiction actually came from CS, DoD, and the other Valve games before I switched to SOCOM, and then to CoD4.

I actually used to detest MMO's because of PvP. This game's lack of focus on PvP was one of the biggest draws for me.


I came from Quake III Arena/Team Fortress 2 background.


By "most people who play DDO" you mean yourself right?


No, I primarily play FPS games, with the odd MMO every now and then.

Games where you have multiple human opponents all trying to kill you at once.

Here's a few examples of me engaged in some real PvP.


http://www.youtube.com/user/privatehomeuser#p/u/1/jVCSGCH2a1Q

http://www.youtube.com/user/privatehomeuser#p/u/4/77jFNvypn0Y

http://www.youtube.com/user/privatehomeuser#p/u/11/wcLLgTOZfD8

http://www.youtube.com/user/privatehomeuser#p/u/13/9J2ehOCxJyE

http://www.youtube.com/user/privatehomeuser#p/u/14/geGjwVXILOo

http://www.youtube.com/user/privatehomeuser#p/u/15/Et_e-92heeE

http://www.youtube.com/user/privatehomeuser#p/u/23/6k5y26Cdipo

[Creeper]

I came from Quake III Arena/Team Fortress 2 background.


No, I primarily play FPS games, with the odd MMO every now and then.

Games where you have multiple human opponents all trying to kill you at once.

Here's a few examples of me engaged in some real PvP.


Those are so awesome man. Here is an example of when I used to play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

(I'm the guy with the coat.)

[Glenalth]

I understand perfectly well how the game works. I know blocking negates Slayer Arrows but no caster can survive a Manyshot from a lvl 18+ without healing. When you heal is when the stat damage and/or Slayer Arrows get ya'.

Dodge, Dip, Duck, Dive, and Dodge.

Seriously. Get out of the way or get AC, those are the counters to being attacked, ranged or not.

[Zilta]

a wf sorc with over 500 hp is nothing special

[h4x0r1f1c]

Dodge, Dip, Duck, Dive, and Dodge.

Seriously. Get out of the way or get AC, those are the counters to being attacked, ranged or not.

You said Dodge twice and you can't Dip or Duck and the only thing like a Dive would be with a Tumble of 30+.

Warforged Sorcerers do not ever get enough AC plus Slayer Arrows proc on a 20 which is an auto-hit.

Like I could really move side-to-side and not get killed LOL right.. Good suggestion.

[Glenalth]

You said Dodge twice and you can't Dip or Duck and the only thing like a Dive would be with a Tumble of 30+.

Warforged Sorcerers do not ever get enough AC plus Slayer Arrows proc on a 20 which is an auto-hit.

Like I could really move side-to-side and not get killed LOL right.. Good suggestion.

It's not a proc on a 20, it's a proc on a vorpal strike which is a 20 followed by a confirmation to-hit roll.

You can move side-to-side and not get hit by arrows. It's a major feature of this game.

[protokon]

You said Dodge twice and you can't Dip or Duck and the only thing like a Dive would be with a Tumble of 30+.

movie reference check: fail (dodgeball)



Warforged Sorcerers do not ever get enough AC plus Slayer Arrows proc on a 20 which is an auto-hit.

Like I could really move side-to-side and not get killed LOL right.. Good suggestion.

for someone who is obsessed with PvP, I am surprised that you are ignorant in the fine game mechanics that allow you to counter what you are complaining about; something that requires actual skill (twitching) rather than simply button mashing your spells.

simple solution is to move on to a more pvp-oriented game my friend.

[Hendrik]

*snip*

simple solution is to move on to a more pvp-oriented game my friend.

While simple, yes, he would still get slaughtered in any game. Imagine what would happen to him in a game that was actually made with PvP in mind instead of an afterthought....

[Creeper]

While simple, yes, he would still get slaughtered in any game. Imagine what would happen to him in a game that was actually made with PvP in mind instead of an afterthought....

Dear OP,

If you wanna make a really good PVP character I would make a WF sorc with a lot of hps. Surely no one will be able to kill you then.

[h4x0r1f1c]

Anyone with Manyshot can grab a W/E bow and purchase a Scarab of Spell Asborption from the AH.

They can bring any arcane's STR to 0 making them unable to repair or defend themselves.

Even when blocking, Manyshot's 20 seconds and a W/E bow will bring even an an 18str to 0.

If you drink a Lesser Restoration pot another arrow hits and your STR remains 0.

Since nobody wants to nerf anything so how about some arrow absorption items?

This is the PvP forum so if you don't like PvP keep it to yourself and kindly reply elsewhere.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

From a strictly PvP perspective...no.

Stop trying to nerf anything that is a weakness for your particular build.

Arrows are supposed to hurt.

[k1ngp1n]

No. There is an in-game mechanic to prevent 'arrows' from damaging you - damage reduction. Stat damage is independent of arrows themselves.

[Jakarr]

Naw no thanks, waste of the devs time. Also you would have to bring that Arrow Absorp item into PvE as well and imo it would be a little overpowered as in alot of places there are alot of mobs who use a bow.

For a 20s manyshot you are looking at around what.....around 80-100 arrows. If I could have a item that absorbed 80-100 arrows it would make my life in pve a ton easier. So say we balanced it for PvE I go with about 50 which a manyshot would still own you.

so /notsigned


Side note I love PvP.....just dont think it has a place in DDO

[TheDearLeader]

You could always splash enough monk to get deflect arrows - its 1 less per 6 seconds.

And by the way, this is still a "Suggestion" of yours. Just because its a Suggestion about PvP doesn't change that it is a Suggestion, or a request for a new/improved item. Putting it in the PvP forums instead of the Suggestion forums doesn't give you an immunity to people ripping your idea a new one.

There's an item that will make you immune to their arrows - your keyboard. Hit Alt + F4, and I promise they'll be unable to hit you with their bows any further.

[TheDearLeader]

For a 20s manyshot you are looking at around what.....around 80-100 arrows. If I could have a item that absorbed 80-100 arrows it would make my life in pve a ton easier. So say we balanced it for PvE I go with about 50 which a manyshot would still own you.


Oh yeah, this too. The amount of charges it would have to have to survive a Manyshot in PvP would be game-breaking in PvE. And no, no one's asking as Dev to make you a PvP specific item.

[Tolero]

Next person to post something other than feedback to this thread gets a date with the Cube.

[h4x0r1f1c]

From a strictly PvP perspective...no.

Stop trying to nerf anything that is a weakness for your particular build.

Arrows are supposed to hurt.

I fail to see your argument here.

Arrows are supposed to hurt. Yep.

Meteor Swarms and Scorching Rays aren't?

If we're not to nerf anything then what do arcanes do?

Get ganked and die? Find some non-existant way that gets bashed over the forums to survive it then drain their spell absorption all before the enemy runs out for 2 minutes to strike again?

[Jakarr]

I fail to see your argument here.

Arrows are supposed to hurt. Yep.

Meteor Swarms and Scorching Rays aren't?

If we're not to nerf anything then what do arcanes do?

Get ganked and die? Find some non-existant way that gets bashed over the forums to survive it then drain their spell absorption all before the enemy runs out for 2 minutes to strike again?


Suggest a way to block/absorb these arrows without breaking pve. I will await your suggestion.

[PopeJual]

Anyone with Manyshot can grab a W/E bow and purchase a Scarab of Spell Asborption from the AH.

They can bring any arcane's STR to 0 making them unable to repair or defend themselves.

Even when blocking, Manyshot's 20 seconds and a W/E bow will bring even an an 18str to 0.

If you drink a Lesser Restoration pot another arrow hits and your STR remains 0.

Since nobody wants to nerf anything so how about some arrow absorption items?

This is the PvP forum so if you don't like PvP keep it to yourself and kindly reply elsewhere.

...and there's your answer. Grab a stat damaging bow and an PvP worthy Ioun Stone and you can once more pwn the noobs in PvP yourself.


Seriously, why don't you just roll up an Arcane Archer already?

Edit: just to be clear, I mean that H4x0r1f1c should get himself a stat damaging bow and go to town on the poor lobster residents who can't defend themselves against the overpowered evil that is ranged combat. Or just get some AC so that he won't get hit so often.

[Jakarr]

Then why do they have Scarab of Spell Absorption?

Don't you get hit with spells more often than arrows, usually?

That's too OP in PvE then. Also if you exclude my PvP reasoning then don't tell me your own PvP reasoning.

Again please I must of missed it what is your suggestion for a feat or item that could be implemented that would block or absorb arrows without breaking PvE?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Then why do they have Scarab of Spell Absorption?

Don't you get hit with spells more often than arrows, usually?

That's too OP in PvE then. Also if you exclude my PvP reasoning then don't tell me your own PvP reasoning.

I'm not sure if I would have added them to the game, but its actually direct from PnP and it was added very early in the game's history.

It isn't however overpowered in that it is very rare, and turns to dust very quickly and is destroyed when used up.

And the trinket you hate so much, I probably wouldn't have put that in either, but is drained very quickly too so also not very overpowering. The equivilent (stop 7 arrows) on an arrow item would be gone in 1 second so I doubt that's what you are looking for.

But lets give you a chance, please tell us your specific ideas for an item that would solve your being killed in PvP and yet wouldn't be overpowered.

[h4x0r1f1c]

Again please I must of missed it what is your suggestion for a feat or item that could be implemented that would block or absorb arrows without breaking PvE?

I don't think this would break PvE. If it does then PvE is already broken because of:

Scarab of Spell Absorption
Pale Lavender Ioun Stone (upgraded)

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I don't think this would break PvE. If it does then PvE is already broken because of:

Scarab of Spell Absorption
Pale Lavender Ioun Stone (upgraded)

As already discussed, those are hardly overpowered.

But you don't think WHAT would break PvE? So far you have not given a specific example of what you think would be a good feat or item. Please give us your suggestion so we can consider the balance - who knows, maybe you are right...so lets hear your specific example of an item/feat.

[Jakarr]

I don't think this would break PvE. If it does then PvE is already broken because of:

Scarab of Spell Absorption
Pale Lavender Ioun Stone (upgraded)

Yes but as I said before if you would upgrade these items to protect you from manyshot it would have to have 80-100 charges which would break pve.

[k1ngp1n]

I don't think this would break PvE. If it does then PvE is already broken because of:

Scarab of Spell Absorption
Pale Lavender Ioun Stone (upgraded)

Lore wise those items make sense. Lore wise an arrow absorption item doesn't make sense. There are methods by which arrows can be defeated (monk deflect arrows - if it were to work that is) or psionics. At the current time they are not in the game, and in D&D (which this game holds to in a tiny degree) the effect you are requesting is not commonly seen. Spell absorption, however, is.

Arrow absorption would break PvE to a far greater degree than Spell absorption does, and nullify quests like Epic Chains so fast!

[h4x0r1f1c]

I'm not sure if I would have added them to the game, but its actually direct from PnP and it was added very early in the game's history.

It isn't however overpowered in that it is very rare, and turns to dust very quickly and is destroyed when used up.

And the trinket you hate so much, I probably wouldn't have put that in either, but is drained very quickly too so also not very overpowering. The equivilent (stop 7 arrows) on an arrow item would be gone in 1 second so I doubt that's what you are looking for.

But lets give you a chance, please tell us your specific ideas for an item that would solve your being killed in PvP and yet wouldn't be overpowered.

Trust me it isn't drained as quickly as you think when you're being Manyshot with STR damage and Slayer Arrows.

In PvE I have never seen a ranger that deals stat damage. In PvP this happens all the time.

Since people don't like the idea of absorbing arrows then what about an item that prevents stat damage?

Like the Pale Lavender Ioun Stone this could be something you get which requires upgrading.

I know Heal removes stat damage but no arcane is going to have Heal and the other spells required to stop a ranger.

Reconstruct won't remove stat damage and I've already made a thread about that nobody liked it.

No use in trying to UMD a Heal Scroll because you'll be dead before or right after it's used.

I already explained how Lesser Restoration pots won't work. Anyone got acceptable ideas?
(Meaning acceptable to them and ME too. I'll let you know if I agree.)

If it's just damage vs damage I can win. They can come down and Manyshot me for 20 seconds and I'll survive it trust me I survived whatshisface's(cannot name him) Epic Thornlord with Force Burst on it numerous times. Same with his GCB.

When he uses Slayer Arrows or stat damage I go down. If I can survive 20 seconds of Manyshot then if he's still down there cast other stuff at him (damage only even) I'd gladly do so.

The point in bringing this up again is because I don't really care about arrow absorption mainly evening the stat damage stuff.

I have 18 STR with Rage because I have a +6 item and ate a +2 STR tome and with a W/E bow hitting me and my trying to repair myself I still hit 0.

[PopeJual]

Again please I must of missed it what is your suggestion for a feat or item that could be implemented that would block or absorb arrows without breaking PvE?

Acutally, I think he's on to something here. Maybe they could add something like spell resistance to the combat engine.

Like, they could give melee and ranged combat characters some sort of Combat Penetration score based on their level + 1d20 (maybe adjusted by strength or dex so that it would be like saving throws for spells in addition to spell reistance). Each person could then have a Combat Resistance score that starts out fairly low but allows extra levels of Combat Resistance based on what kind of item you wear. I think that "armor" might be a good term for that. Also, some classes are theoretically better at not getting hit, so maybe we could give Monks a Combat Resistance bonus based on their Monk level or maybe their Wisdom score or something like that.

I'm sure that the developers can work out the details, but I think that this would be a really neat addition to DDO so that everyone isn't automatically hit by every melee strike or ranged strike that is taken at them. Combat Penetration and Combat Resistance could be a pretty cool addition. If you don't like those names, perhaps something like "Hit Rating" and "Armor Rating" could work.

+1 to H4x0r1f1c for inspiring this new combat mechanic that no one has ever previously thought of for DDO or for P&P D&D.

[Jakarr]

Trust me it isn't drained as quickly as you think when you're being Manyshot with STR damage and Slayer Arrows.

In PvE I have never seen a ranger that deals stat damage. In PvP this happens all the time.

Since people don't like the idea of absorbing arrows then what about an item that prevents stat damage?

Like the Pale Lavender Ioun Stone this could be something you get which requires upgrading.

I know Heal removes stat damage but no arcane is going to have Heal and the other spells required to stop a ranger.

Reconstruct won't remove stat damage and I've already made a thread about that nobody liked it.

No use in trying to UMD a Heal Scroll because you'll be dead before or right after it's used.

I already explained how Lesser Restoration pots won't work. Anyone got acceptable ideas?

(Meaning acceptable to them and ME too. I'll let you know if I agree.)


I dont pvp enough but doesn't Death Ward prevent stat damage? I know it does for Mobs....

[h4x0r1f1c]

Acutally, I think he's on to something here. Maybe they could add something like spell resistance to the combat engine.

Like, they could give melee and ranged combat characters some sort of Combat Penetration score based on their level + 1d20 (maybe adjusted by strength or dex so that it would be like saving throws for spells in addition to spell reistance). Each person could then have a Combat Resistance score that starts out fairly low but allows extra levels of Combat Resistance based on what kind of item you wear. I think that "armor" might be a good term for that. Also, some classes are theoretically better at not getting hit, so maybe we could give Monks a Combat Resistance bonus based on their Monk level or maybe their Wisdom score or something like that.

I'm sure that the developers can work out the details, but I think that this would be a really neat addition to DDO so that everyone isn't automatically hit by every melee strike or ranged strike that is taken at them. Combat Penetration and Combat Resistance could be a pretty cool addition. If you don't like those names, perhaps something like "Hit Rating" and "Armor Rating" could work.

+1 to H4x0r1f1c for inspiring this new combat mechanic that no one has ever previously thought of for DDO or for P&P D&D.

Yeah totally let's suggest AC in a sarcastic manner to the arcane of course that's all he needs.


I dont pvp enough but doesn't Death Ward prevent stat damage? I know it does for Mobs....

No sir it does not. That's negative levels.

[PopeJual]

Yeah totally let's suggest AC in a sarcastic manner to the arcane of course that's all he needs.

Well, the sarcasm was just a bonus.

In all seriousness, the thing that you want already exists in DDO. It's called AC and you can get some if you don't like being shot with arrows. Displacement can also help. (edit: I'm not saying that Displacement is a guarantee - just that it can help.)

[h4x0r1f1c]

Well, the sarcasm was just a bonus.

In all seriousness, the thing that you want already exists in DDO. It's called AC and you can get some if you don't like being shot with arrows. Displacement can also help. (edit: I'm not saying that Displacement is a guarantee - just that it can help.)

A bonus for what? I don't see the point behind posting that at all.

Also I have Displacement and they always have True Seeing or DM's Vision.

Displacement is only good in PvE or against people you don't even need Displacement against.

[cpito]

In PvE I have never seen a ranger that deals stat damage. In PvP this happens all the time.

Exactly how do you see archers use stat damagers in PvE? Do you have access to some program we PvEers know nothing about that lets you see what weapons your party is yeilding at that exact moment? Most bow users I know have a WoP and/or a WoE and put them to good use while never entering the brawling pits.

[PopeJual]

A bonus for what? I don't see the point behind posting that at all.

Also I have Displacement and they always have True Seeing or DM's Vision.

Displacement is only good in PvE or against people you don't even need Displacement against.

...you could always go back to the main point of the post and get some AC. Even Wizards can get enough AC to avoid getting hit by most players. The Displacement is just a bonus for the times when it happens to work. You have effectively infinite spell points. It's okay to burn a few on a buff that only has a chance of working and isn't guaranteed to succeed.

Is guaranteed success what you really want? Don't you want someone to actually be a threat to you? If other players can't kill you, then it isn't really PvP. It's PvGoldfish instead.

[h4x0r1f1c]

Exactly how do you see archers use stat damagers in PvE? Do you have access to some program we PvEers know nothing about that lets you see what weapons your party is yeilding at that exact moment? Most bow users I know have a WoP and/or a WoE and put them to good use while never entering the brawling pits.

My bad I worded that wrong. I meant I have never seen any NPC rangers using it.

I've never been shot at with stat damage in PvE by a ranger.

[h4x0r1f1c]

...you could always go back to the main point of the post and get some AC. Even Wizards can get enough AC to avoid getting hit by most players. The Displacement is just a bonus for the times when it happens to work. You have effectively infinite spell points. It's okay to burn a few on a buff that only has a chance of working and isn't guaranteed to succeed.

Is guaranteed success what you really want? Don't you want someone to actually be a threat to you? If other players can't kill you, then it isn't really PvP. It's PvGoldfish instead.

Your AC idea on a warforged sorcerer doesn't work dude.

Also they get infinite HP because they can eat food and in some cases heal. (like a 12fvs,6ranger,2ftr thing)

They still have Manyshot and they can still use a W/E bow.

It's only guaranteed success for them right now which is what I'm trying to have corrected.

[cpito]

My bad I worded that wrong. I meant I have never seen any NPC rangers using it.

I've never been shot at with stat damage in PvE by a ranger.

Forgive my poor memory but which melee mobs in this game swing stat damagers?

[h4x0r1f1c]

Forgive my poor memory but which melee mobs in this game swing stat damagers?

I don't know. I said no stat-damage-arrows hit me in PvE okay?

What are you trying to get at person? Let's drop the sarcasm please.

[Tolero]

Let's try this again tomorrow once we've all had a chance to think about what we've done, and how to better follow the rules and play nice together.