The One-Stop DM/Player Advice Shop

[Aspenor]

I was inspired to make another PnP thread after a fellow forumite asked me for some help regarding a campaign he's running. This thread is for DM's, players, or anybody interested. Unlike the previous thread I had open, this thread is not about competition or "winning." This thread is about helping others.

Feel free to ask any question you might have regarding a PnP campaign, whether you're a player, DM, or just curious. I have access to nearly every 3.5 book ever published, and several 3.0 books as well. I'm not particularly familiar with previous editions, and definitely not incredibly familiar with 4.0e. I hope others more knowledgeable about those editions will be happy to participate and help with questions about those editions.

So, whether you're having a problem with a PC, need some good plot hooks, or you just have a simple question, ask away. I think a thread like this is long overdue on the DDO forums, since all of us are at least in some respect interested in PnP.

Let's keep the thread helpful and clear of debate, unless it's on-topic and aimed toward helping somebody. Even then, let's keep it congenial.

Since I'm the OP, I'll start off. This is a copied post of mine from another forum.



First of all, the rundown:
My group is primarily ROLLplayers, but they aren't the best optimizers you've ever seen (aren't really all that good at all, actually).
The campaign will have an evil alignment undertone to it, but intra-party violence will not be kosher, I plan to give them reasons not to gank each other.
All 3.5 material is available for their use, with certain exceptions like Candle of Invocation abuse and other crazy shenanigans.

I would like to make some changes to help promote roleplay, as I think they would enjoy the game a little more and have a new kind of fun. In order to promote this, I want to make some changes like:
All characters get double skill points. Alternatively, combine certain skills a la 4e (Hide/MS become stealth, Spot/Search/Listen become perception, etc.)
Fighters get a bonus feat every level. Barbarians get one at every level a wizard would.
Encourage players to look at Tome of Battle rather than standard PHB melee classes, except maybe barbarian.
Skill bonuses will be given ad hoc for creativeness, like saying something very convincing on a diplomacy check.
Give skills additional uses, such as Intimidate being useful to Taunt, increasing an enemy's aggressiveness toward you and forgetting about others.

What other ideas can you guys give me? I've considering altering some feats to be more powerful, like Weapon Focus and Specialization (maybe Weapon focus gives +2 to hit and +1 to damage, and specialization gives +2 to hit and +4 to damage).

Any input or feedback on these ideas will be appreciated, so don't be afraid to tell me if I'm being an idiot.

Oh, and encounter CR's will be tailored accordingly on the fly. I shouldn't have any problem with it.

Other examples of good questions:
- can you help me with a savage progression of X monster race/template?
- how do I calculate experience in situation Y?
- HELP!!! Character Z is overpowering my campaign! What do I do?

Give as much detail as possible. Thanks in advance to everybody that participates.

[Ethiel]

First of all, the rundown:
My group is primarily ROLLplayers, but they aren't the best optimizers you've ever seen (aren't really all that good at all, actually).
The campaign will have an evil alignment undertone to it, but intra-party violence will not be kosher, I plan to give them reasons not to gank each other.
All 3.5 material is available for their use, with certain exceptions like Candle of Invocation abuse and other crazy shenanigans.

I would like to make some changes to help promote roleplay, as I think they would enjoy the game a little more and have a new kind of fun. In order to promote this, I want to make some changes like:
All characters get double skill points. Alternatively, combine certain skills a la 4e (Hide/MS become stealth, Spot/Search/Listen become perception, etc.)
Fighters get a bonus feat every level. Barbarians get one at every level a wizard would.
Encourage players to look at Tome of Battle rather than standard PHB melee classes, except maybe barbarian.
Skill bonuses will be given ad hoc for creativeness, like saying something very convincing on a diplomacy check.
Give skills additional uses, such as Intimidate being useful to Taunt, increasing an enemy's aggressiveness toward you and forgetting about others.

What other ideas can you guys give me? I've considering altering some feats to be more powerful, like Weapon Focus and Specialization (maybe Weapon focus gives +2 to hit and +1 to damage, and specialization gives +2 to hit and +4 to damage).

Any input or feedback on these ideas will be appreciated, so don't be afraid to tell me if I'm being an idiot.

Oh, and encounter CR's will be tailored accordingly on the fly. I shouldn't have any problem with it.



I know what I do to promote Roleplay over Rollplay is if the Player makes an exceptional statement or really does well on a bluff/fasttalk, I don't require a roll, Unless the NPC has already been being played as a similar smarta$$ or just generally Paranoid.

That way the players are encouraged to speak out the role instead of rolling it all the time.

[Aspenor]

I know what I do to promote Roleplay over Rollplay is if the Player makes an exceptional statement or really does well on a bluff/fasttalk, I don't require a roll, Unless the NPC has already been being played as a similar smarta$$ or just generally Paranoid.

That way the players are encouraged to speak out the role instead of rolling it all the time.

That's a good idea. I like it. Done.

[Ethiel]

How do you balance different skill levels in game?


For instance I have a player who is really good at the roleplay aspect of the game, and another who is continually the patsy because of it.

I try to mitigate it by questioning him a lot "are you sure that is what you are going to say/do?" but it seems that the player is still the butt of the jokes/cannon fodder.

I just do not know how to get a balance where the other better player doesn't feel like I am dumbing down the game, while still keeping it enjoyable for the person who is still working their way to that level of gameplay.


Second problem I have is actions in combat......I have the initiative thing down, first person to make an action usually no problem, second person....."what its my turn?" "oh, what spell am I going to use?" "I need a drink"
Now I have in the past become rude about it when it takes wayyyyyyyyyy to long so many times that other players take smoke breaks when that person(s) turn is up..to the point where with a high level wiz I was like make an action in 10 seconds or you are swinging your staff 4 times and we are moving on.

I know that wasn't the best option but it was all I could do to stop the problem.

Example: Player 1 (rogue) makes a move action and readies an action, player 2 (fighter) moves to melee and swings sword, Player 3 (Ranger) .....oh my turn? I think I might use a spell, no I may move/attack, or should I use my bow?

group (break time)


DM (make an action or you die horribly in dragon poo)

[Lorien_the_First_One]

How do you balance different skill levels in game?


For instance I have a player who is really good at the roleplay aspect of the game, and another who is continually the patsy because of it.

I try to mitigate it by questioning him a lot "are you sure that is what you are going to say/do?" but it seems that the player is still the butt of the jokes/cannon fodder.

I just do not know how to get a balance where the other better player doesn't feel like I am dumbing down the game, while still keeping it enjoyable for the person who is still working their way to that level of gameplay.


Second problem I have is actions in combat......I have the initiative thing down, first person to make an action usually no problem, second person....."what its my turn?" "oh, what spell am I going to use?" "I need a drink"
Now I have in the past become rude about it when it takes wayyyyyyyyyy to long so many times that other players take smoke breaks when that person(s) turn is up..to the point where with a high level wiz I was like make an action in 10 seconds or you are swinging your staff 4 times and we are moving on.

I know that wasn't the best option but it was all I could do to stop the problem.

Example: Player 1 (rogue) makes a move action and readies an action, player 2 (fighter) moves to melee and swings sword, Player 3 (Ranger) .....oh my turn? I think I might use a spell, no I may move/attack, or should I use my bow?

group (break time)


DM (make an action or you die horribly in dragon poo)

A round is 6 seconds, most DMs (usually backed by the players who hate delays) go with "if you can't tell me what you want to do in 6 seconds your action is "I delay until after <whoever is last for initiative this round>". If you are in that last initiative spot (either by roll or by forced delay) and can not decide in 6 seconds your action is "goes full defensive for the round (no attack, AC bonus)".

You don't do it to someone the first time they get stuck, but if they are slowing the game they need prodding. I also try to steer those players away from complex builds in the future.

[Ethiel]

Never tried the 6 second rule for the player making the action :) Will have to give it a shot.

[Aspenor]

I run into that problem ALL THE TIME in my group. One player is the most egregious offender, but most of us do it occasionally (though never as bad as the aforementioned one). I swear to god we spent 15 minutes telling him to "just do SOMETHING" while he deliberated between charging into melee or delaying an action...on a monk no less.

[Ethiel]

I run into that problem ALL THE TIME in my group. One player is the most egregious offender, but most of us do it occasionally (though never as bad as the aforementioned one). I swear to god we spent 15 minutes telling him to "just do SOMETHING" while he deliberated between charging into melee or delaying an action...on a monk no less.

[channeling Squelch/] That is because he was trying to decide how to fail less at life, then realized he was a monk and it was impossible [/channeling Squelch]

I know the feeling. I have one really bad player about it..... seriously as a high level ranger was more worried about what spell to cast than using the Perfect 2 weapon fighting option with devastating critical? I mean with 10 attacks one is going to crit. then save or die. It really wasn't a hard decision.

[Armouredpriest]

Our group generally doesn't have to do the 6 second rule. We do often try to keep it under 1 minute, though. (we've been playing long enough that even if we're playing a character we haven't looked at in a while or a new one that's higher then say level 10, we're pretty good about figuring out what we want to do in the 1 minute time period). In general we've found that the 1 minute time period works for both combat and non-combat situations dealing with NPCs.

[Cam_Neely]

Second problem I have is actions in combat......I have the initiative thing down, first person to make an action usually no problem, second person....."what its my turn?" "oh, what spell am I going to use?" "I need a drink"
Now I have in the past become rude about it when it takes wayyyyyyyyyy to long so many times that other players take smoke breaks when that person(s) turn is up..to the point where with a high level wiz I was like make an action in 10 seconds or you are swinging your staff 4 times and we are moving on.

The way I have dealt with this is I push them down in the initiative. If they only rarely take a while, I dont do it, but if its the same person, over and over, that is really slowing the game down, I just go to the next person in the initiative, then go back to the offender. Typically after doing this once or twice they start paying more attention because its a drag on the abilities of the party to have one player go less.

If it continues then its something that needs to be taken care of out of game. 1v1 so as not to accuse them in front of the group and put them on the defensive.

Another way to fix this might to be to let people know when they are 'on deck' so that the can start narrowing down their choices while someone else is figuring out what to do

[Ethiel]

I have thought about buying a white board for the gaming area.

Listing Inits and other junk on it.

any one ever see a use for something like that?

[der_kluge]

Not sure how giving your players 2x skill points is going to encourage role-playing. You could, however, give them n number of additional skill points, which you can require to be put into various craft() and profession() skills to give them a sense of who they were before they became adventurers.

Require them to write up a history.

That would be a start towards role-playing.

I'm also a big fan of Action Points, where they can spend them to overcome certain obstacles, or in-game benefits. Award them for role-playing their characters. That will give them an incentive to get more into their characters.

[Aspenor]

Not sure how giving your players 2x skill points is going to encourage role-playing. You could, however, give them n number of additional skill points, which you can require to be put into various craft() and profession() skills to give them a sense of who they were before they became adventurers.

To understand my line of reasoning, you'll need a little background for this group.

Most of their experience revolves around dungeon crawling explicitly, utilizing the kick-in-the-door style where combat solves all problems. There has never been such a thing as the "party face," except when I was playing a cleric that had a cranked up diplomacy skill. I think I got to use it like twice, though.

By doubling skill points, it will hopefully encourage them to invest points into non-combat, non-dungeon oriented skills. The party rogue only ever invests into spot, search, disable, locks, stealth, etc. Diplomacy, bluff, sense motive, all these things are omitted. By giving them more points per level, it will encourage the use of the other skills available to their classes. It also will allow them to twist a little flavor into their characters beyond backstory (which nobody has ever written, by the way).

When I explain that I am giving them these skill points, I will also explain that they need to put them to use in a way that will support actions outside of dungeons. I don't plan to give them room after room of random enemies, instead they will find themselves in situations. If they build their characters in their typical fashion, they will find it nearly impossible to handle certain situations.

[sainy_matthew]

To understand my line of reasoning, you'll need a little background for this group.

Most of their experience revolves around dungeon crawling explicitly, utilizing the kick-in-the-door style where combat solves all problems. There has never been such a thing as the "party face," except when I was playing a cleric that had a cranked up diplomacy skill. I think I got to use it like twice, though.

By doubling skill points, it will hopefully encourage them to invest points into non-combat, non-dungeon oriented skills. The party rogue only ever invests into spot, search, disable, locks, stealth, etc. Diplomacy, bluff, sense motive, all these things are omitted. By giving them more points per level, it will encourage the use of the other skills available to their classes. It also will allow them to twist a little flavor into their characters beyond backstory (which nobody has ever written, by the way).

When I explain that I am giving them these skill points, I will also explain that they need to put them to use in a way that will support actions outside of dungeons. I don't plan to give them room after room of random enemies, instead they will find themselves in situations. If they build their characters in their typical fashion, they will find it nearly impossible to handle certain situations.In that case you don't need to change the rules, you need to change your players expectations. I start every new campaign with a manifesto. Its a simple 1 to 2 page document fleshing out what sort of game it is, what resources are available, what the focus is going to be on & what sort of monster theme will be used if one is to be used at all. My general layout looks like this



STARTING LEVEL: state starting level here & probably end level if specified
CAMPAIGN SETTING: which universe are you gaming in
GENRE: Put in the base concept here. For instance it could be "Hometown Heroes"
ENVIRONMENT/AREA: The environment type could be urban, or dungeon or high seas & area refers to the actual in game area.
DISPOSITION: heroic adventure, exalted, valorous, vile, standard, mercanery, pirate etc etc.

SYNOPSIS
A general overview of the module goes here... Nothing in depth, just the stuff you're already going to tell players in the first opening session, plus any background info about where you want the heroes to have come from.

CHARACTER GENERATION RULES
DERIVED ATTRIBUTES: What roll system are you using & who do you trust to over see the rolls.
HIT POINTS: How are HP derived
RACES: What races you will and will not allow
CLASSESS: What classess you will and will not allow
VARIANTS: Do you allow racial or class variants & if so which ones
ALIGNMENTS: What part of the alignment spectrum are you allowing players to play.
ALLOWED BOOKS: What books are allowed
FAITHS & PANTHEONS: What gods you are allowing & any requirements you have for religious characters
BACKGROUND: General background, where you expect PC's to hail from, the amount of background one is expected to provide & general indication of intent by the DM for the type of game its going to be plot derived or character derived.
GENERAL DESIGN NOTES: A heads up about the type of game its going to be, including common themes or monster types. This stops someone from making a pirate in a desert game & stops someone building a dragon slayer in a game where the DM does not intend to use dragons.

That way when your players ignore it & the rogue finds he's not of much use in your urban hometown heroes game you can point to the manifesto & say "I told you what sort of game this was going to be." So i saty challenge the players with no monster encounters, challenge them with actual roleplaying & story challenges.

-M

[Aspenor]

In that case you don't need to change the rules, you need to change your players expectations. I start every new campaign with a manifesto. Its a simple 1 to 2 page document fleshing out what sort of game it is, what resources are available, what the focus is going to be on & what sort of monster theme will be used if one is to be used at all. My general layout looks like this



That way when your players ignore it & the rogue finds he's not of much use in your urban hometown heroes game you can point to the manifesto & say "I told you what sort of game this was going to be." So i saty challenge the players with no monster encounters, challenge them with actual roleplaying & story challenges.

-M
That's one way to do it, but I'm not particularly scared of fudging with the rules when I DM, particularly when it comes to character building. Combat mechanics and whatnot tend to remain as written, with the notable exception of grappling which I will rework (the way grappling works seems a little counterintuitive and messy).

I want to avoid the situation where a player finds their character useless due to my campaign design. I want to let them have the freedom to create a character that they will want to play, while simultaneously bringing in new types of challenges that they will be able to handle.

I've always felt that that many classes receive less skill points than they should. This is my way of fixing a problem that I see in the system itself. The same goes for feats. The vast majority of feats are simply underpowered, especially the ones in the Player's Handbook.

One way I've thought to handle feats would be to make them scale with level, particularly the fighter feats. This gives fighters a virtual "class feature" since they really have no class features in the first place. Characters like wizards, rogues, clerics, etc. have abilities that scale by level. Fighters really do not. A few quick examples:

Weapon Focus:
1-5: +1 to attack, +1 to dmg
6-10: +2 to attack, +1 to dmg
11-15: +3 to attack, +2 to dmg
16-20: +4 to attack, +2 to dmg

Dodge:
1-4: +1 dodge to AC against 1 opponent
5-8: +2 dodge to AC against 1 opponent
9-12: +3 dodge to AC against 1 opponent, Uncanny Dodge
13-16: +4 dodge to AC against 1 opponent, Uncanny Dodge, +1 dodge AC against all other opponents
17-20: +5 dodge to AC against 1 opponent, Uncanny Dodge, +2 dodge AC against all other opponents

Lightning Reflexes:
1-6: +2 to Reflex
7-13: +4 to Reflex
16-20: +6 to Reflex

Weapon Specialization:
4-8: +2 to damage with chosen weapon
9-14: +4 to damage with chosen weapon
15-20: +6 to damage with chosen weapon

However, I plan to encourage any player that wishes to play a fighter to use the Tome of Battle rather than the typical Player's Handbook classes. I may or may not need to add scaling to feats if they choose to do this.

I always do a little writeup of my campaigns like the one you posted, I might use that as a template as mine seem to be a little more simple.

Don't worry about these little changes making the party overpowered. That simply won't happen. I know more than they do by a long shot, even combining the game knowledge of every player at the table, I still know more. I can tweak encounters easily, and I don't have a whole lot of faith in the CR system. They fight what I know they should be able to handle, and if they can't, too **** bad....they should have picked better spells. ;)

[Armouredpriest]

I've felt the same way as you, Asp, concerning number of skill points gained by most classes. My group likes to both "role-play", and "roll-play." MY players like to have the skills to back up their "roleplaying" abilities. In otherwords playing the urbane fighter with the high CHR score...its kind of hard, even with a good INT, to get the skills needed to pull off the character, at least not without kit-bashing, at which point why even play a fighter. (As an aside, lets face it, sometimes its fun to just kick in the door ;)...and sometimes the party wastes too much time argueing the semantics of how to go about a problem when the direct route works as well as any...I've occassionaly been very thankful for the Barbarian who's decided there's been "enough talk"... not that I didn't love it when someone in my group stole one of the evil organization's communication crystals, and while impersonating one of the evil guild's leaders sent the bad guys on a wild goose chase allowing the party to face some of their tasks unhindered by a third party trying to get there first. There are consequences for actions in my campaigns...and it works both ways for the party and my NPCs ). I digress...

Anyway. The system I came up with was keeping the same class skill points, but instead of just INT going towards bonus skill points, every other stat takes 1/2 of a given stat modifier (keep halves) and gets those as bonus skill points as well. The catch is that bonus skill points from a given stat can only be used towards skills that key off of those stats. For example:

Wizbo the magus (32pt)
STR 8
CON 14
DEX 14
WIS 10
INT 17
CHR 13

This character would get his base 2 skill points per level as general points to be used anywhere. He wouldn't gain any for his -1 STR modifier. He'd gain 1 bonus skill point for CON, 1 for DEX, none for WIS, 3 bonus SP for INT, and 0.5 for CHR. For negative modifiers, I ruled that the penalty makes it harder to purchase a given skill (again by 1/2 the modifier) So to purchase 1 rank of Jump, Wizbo would need to spend 3 skill points total to get a full rank (1 point for each .5 of the cross class, and .5 for each .5 of the cross class to cover the modifier penalty) If Jump were a class skill, it would only cost 1.5 SP to gain 1 rank.

In my campaign I had expanded the key stats so that different stats could be used mostly in defferance to CON only affecting Concentration (for example either STR or CON for Swim). However, an easier solution would probably be to allow the Bonus poins gained by CON to be spent for STR (and maybe DEX) as well. I do allow for quarter ranks on cross class skills.

It is a bit more paperwork at level ups, but I discovered my players were happier with their out of combat capabilities.

[flynnjsw]

I have thought about buying a white board for the gaming area.

Listing Inits and other junk on it.

any one ever see a use for something like that?

Give me a few, they actually have a combat pad that lets you list all the intiatives and stuff like that. Let me find it and I will edit my post.


**Edit

Yop, here it is. I have personally used this and love it.

http://paizo.com/store/gameAids/gameMasteryProducts/accessories/v5748btpy8bkr

[Xyfiel]

My last game the DM made up 5 good and bad traits for 4 of us, and we picked them from a hat. It worked pretty well for additional background, and was hilarious how it worked out.

I was a CN female Necro Specced Sorc, I pulled exceptionally beautiful and already had max bluff in my build. I also pulled materialistic. I ended up spending my entire time in towns trying to persuade merchants and NPCs to give me stuff or at a discount. In battle, my objective was always to go after any shiny, or the person with the most shiny.

The Barb pulled great pilfering ability, and then pulled having a gambling problem. So he was all the time taking stuff, but never ended owning them past the next town.

The Cleric pulled he was followed around by a ghost ancestor which gave him insight in situations, but he also got alcoholic. Of course we couldn't see the ghost, and he was drunk most of the time, so while he had great wisdom to offer, no one ever listened to him.

I can't recall what the Druid got, but the point is a DM can add roleplay into a game.

[Armouredpriest]

Give me a few, they actually have a combat pad that lets you list all the intiatives and stuff like that. Let me find it and I will edit my post.


**Edit

Yop, here it is. I have personally used this and love it.

http://paizo.com/store/gameAids/gameMasteryProducts/accessories/v5748btpy8bkr

In my group there are several of us who DM. One of the other guys has this thing as well. Its pretty nice. I'd like to pick one up for myself, I just haven't got around to doing it yet.

[Ethiel]

Yeah the board looks pretty spiffy. Might have to ask the bank, aka wife, for one.

:)


I also like the random traits/flaws sounds like it would be fun at least once.

[Aspenor]

Personally I use a whiteboard, but since I might be bringing a laptop along for this campaign I might use a tool for it. I still haven't decided. The nice thing about the whiteboard is that when I'm not paying attention, somebody else likely is.

[sainy_matthew]

Personally I use a whiteboard, but since I might be bringing a laptop along for this campaign I might use a tool for it. I still haven't decided. The nice thing about the whiteboard is that when I'm not paying attention, somebody else likely is.I just use a pad of paper & make sure to pay attention, but as i've previously mentioned, i am extremely old school. I dont agree with the logic that came in with 4E, that every player should be coming to the table with there character sheet, 40 books, a box of dice, a couple of mini's, a deck of official WotC power cards, etc etc. Or that the DM needs a whole box of **** (though thats a correlation not a causation, so lets keep the edition war out of this).

Theres a handful of 4E DM videos on youtube where the DM's just carry around this grab bag of **** & they see it as a tool box of useful tools & i see it as a distraction to playing the game & only any good for playing the system... But thats just the point of view of somebody who is old and cranky... **** kids... Get off my lawn & turn down that music!

But seriously, i'm a fan of having as few distractions at the table as possible. Heres what i use

LIST OF TOOLS
- DM Screen
- Module/Campaign Notes File (With pad of paper)
- Dice
- As few books as possible (Usually just core books)
- Pencils/Markers
- Dry Erase Tactical Map

-M

[flynnjsw]

In my group there are several of us who DM. One of the other guys has this thing as well. Its pretty nice. I'd like to pick one up for myself, I just haven't got around to doing it yet.

Yeah with the group that I used to play with we were all DM's so there was never a lack of tools.

[Truga]

Thought I'd drop this here: I've been using TTopRPG (http://www.ttoprpg.com/TTopRPG/index.htm) last few weeks to run an online game with my friends, and it's awesome. Draw a dungeon in your preferred way, save it as a jpg/png, load it in the program, set grid size, draw walls for lighting, play.

It's not really rich with features (there's even some things missing), but the one feature that makes it better than anything else I've played with is lighting. Someone uploaded a video to youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a75EERIOXo

If you play d&d over internet, it makes dungeon crawling a whole load of fun.

[Aspenor]

Thought I'd drop this here: I've been using TTopRPG (http://www.ttoprpg.com/TTopRPG/index.htm) last few weeks to run an online game with my friends, and it's awesome. Draw a dungeon in your preferred way, save it as a jpg/png, load it in the program, set grid size, draw walls for lighting, play.

It's not really rich with features (there's even some things missing), but the one feature that makes it better than anything else I've played with is lighting. Someone uploaded a video to youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a75EERIOXo

If you play d&d over internet, it makes dungeon crawling a whole load of fun.

The other DM in my group uses something called MapTool, and we have been playing without the mini's and combat grid for a while. He builds the campaign on his computer in maptool, and we plug in the laptop to a big screen TV via HDMI. He can track initiative on it as well using InitTool. It's nice, but I'm too busy coming up with custom campaigns to plug them into maptool (plus I haven't figured out how to use it well). He uses published stuff, so all he has to do is copy it. I have to come up with NPC's and maps and everything, so that'd be a lot of work on my end.

[timberhick]

I have thought about buying a white board for the gaming area.

Listing Inits and other junk on it.

any one ever see a use for something like that?

Since I use a DM screen, I purchased clothespins, painted some different colors and use them to track initiative. Each player picks a color(I used to add their characters names to the pins, but people were dieing too much) Roll initiative, place them in order(left to right, right to left doesn't matter as long as it's consistent)

It's worked for me for years.

As to getting people to roleplay more I have found simple things helps a lot.
Calling the player by his character's name. Instead of saying "Dave, what are you doing" I say "Zalaen, what are you doing".
Don't allow stupid names.
Have full sessions without combat. This is a fun one. I have had players cause fights just so they could roll some dice.
Have encounters where the players clearly know they are completely outmatched. Talking is their only answer.
Music/sound effects. There are some great places out there to find sound effects and theme music. freesound.org has some nice stuff and heck it's free. But I do have my own mancave with sound system.

[Truga]

The other DM in my group uses something called MapTool, and we have been playing without the mini's and combat grid for a while. He builds the campaign on his computer in maptool, and we plug in the laptop to a big screen TV via HDMI. He can track initiative on it as well using InitTool. It's nice, but I'm too busy coming up with custom campaigns to plug them into maptool (plus I haven't figured out how to use it well). He uses published stuff, so all he has to do is copy it. I have to come up with NPC's and maps and everything, so that'd be a lot of work on my end.

Yeah, maptool is a good tool, but too unwieldy if you want to do custom stuff. TTopRPG is much easier, because you just scan a map you've drawn (or save it as a png if you draw in inkscape), set the size of the grid and that's that. Then, load up character+npc icons and it's done, set icon sizes and initiative modifier and it's done. I've not thought of plugging it into a large screen yet, but if the entire party manages to gather sometime I'll do just that...

In fact, does anyone know where one could find a "cheapo" 50" touchscreen, that could be used as a table? I think that'd be awesome :D


Have full sessions without combat.This has always been one of the most fun parts of pnp d&d for me.

Also, I've played with a DM before, that doesn't use a tactical map at all, but instead describes what is going on. This does magic for immersion, as it leaves imagination to work to it's full potential. I'm considering using this too, once all the players I currently play with get fully acquainted with the game mechanics, because without a map things can get a bit complicated if you don't know exactly how they work.

[sainy_matthew]

i map in the DM stages with some graph paper, a ruler and some pencils. I really don't know when it became standard for people to start trying to use professional level software for ones home game.

[timberhick]

Back in the early 90s I used to game with a guy who was a CAD drawer for an architect firm. We would sketch out ideas and he would draw them up and print'em out for us.

but if you have access to the technology in your games, why not use it?

Sticking with other ways of doing for traditional reasons has never made sense to me. Then again when I started playing D&D back in the mid 80s, we used miniatures, It wasn't until I moved that I found out we were 'playing wrong'

[Aspenor]

but if you have access to the technology in your games, why not use it?

Sticking with other ways of doing for traditional reasons has never made sense to me. Then again when I started playing D&D back in the mid 80s, we used miniatures, It wasn't until I moved that I found out we were 'playing wrong'

I agree completely. If you WANT to spend the time to "cyber-ize" a campaign, it can be well worth it. By using objects, textures, pictures, etc. the guy can bring a high level of immersion via room detail. The program also performs light-source work and line of sight automatically when he sets up that layer of the map (which is always).

If you don't want to, then don't.

[Armouredpriest]

In my previous campaign, instead of using battle maps, we used large magnetic dry-erase boards, and measuring strings. The strings meant we could play a little looser with the movement rules (it also meant for a few DM calls on whether or not an AoO was triggered or not, but my group general pretty good about that sort of thing). For battle tactics it can create a whole new visual on the situation being able to pick up the "battle mat" and turn it, and show it to everybody from various angles. I recognize that this could hinder immersion for some, but for my group immersion isn't a problem (we played with mini for years, and on occassion we still do).

[Postumus]

My last game the DM made up 5 good and bad traits for 4 of us, and we picked them from a hat. It worked pretty well for additional background, and was hilarious how it worked out.

I was a CN female Necro Specced Sorc, I pulled exceptionally beautiful and already had max bluff in my build. I also pulled materialistic. I ended up spending my entire time in towns trying to persuade merchants and NPCs to give me stuff or at a discount. In battle, my objective was always to go after any shiny, or the person with the most shiny.

The Barb pulled great pilfering ability, and then pulled having a gambling problem. So he was all the time taking stuff, but never ended owning them past the next town.

The Cleric pulled he was followed around by a ghost ancestor which gave him insight in situations, but he also got alcoholic. Of course we couldn't see the ghost, and he was drunk most of the time, so while he had great wisdom to offer, no one ever listened to him.



Wow, what a great idea. Simple, yet really provides a challenge for even experienced role players.

It's far too easy to slip into the same type of play/attitude despite using a different class/race because, at the end of the day, it is still the same person playing the character, and its natural for that person's inherent traits to manifest themselves in their characters.

This sounds like a fun, easy way to reinforce the role-playing aspect by giving a fun, creative direction for the character, and then letting the players take it from there.

Sold! :)

[Postumus]

i map in the DM stages with some graph paper, a ruler and some pencils. I really don't know when it became standard for people to start trying to use professional level software for ones home game.

That begs the question: do you allow players to use laptops during game play?

[Ethiel]

I don't use mini's or maps normally.

we use the tried and true "ok your the 4sided die they are the 6 sided die" method when combat really needs the explanations.


but I might get one of my players to bring over his grid tomorrow, just to make aoe spells and character placement notations easier.

[sainy_matthew]

That begs the question: do you allow players to use laptops during game play?Nope. I find that laptops are a huge distraction. The point of the game is fun & to be sociable... you put a laptop in front of a geek and suddenly he's on facebook updating his status or looking at funny videos on youtube.

There is nothing that a laptop can do that cannot be done with a tactical map, some markers, little creativity & a DM with some actual talent.

I'm all for technology improving the game, but when it replaces entire chunks of the game, i step away from the table. Laptops at the table for me is a bit of a last straw. The DM can get away with it, but even then i don't much care for it. Any game i've been in where the DM has used a laptop has been of a lower quality then a game where the DM does not have a laptop in front of him... I know its only correlation & not causation, but it seems to always be the case.

As for people using professional level software, i've never seen the point. If the DM is the only person whose going to see the DM's map, why would you need to make it super pretty? Its not like your going to publish it.

If you want to see some technology that would improve the game, i've been working on this idea of home made mini's. There is currently a device known as a 3D printer & they retail for about 5 grand, but an economy model has just been released for less then 1 grand Australian. All it would take would be someone to program in a way to access MMO character builds & you could literally print out a 3D mini based on an MMO character. Eventually you could have an actual program that would allow you to design your miniture exactly the way you would want it... With the right marketing you could have a print on demand specialized mini business.

Just something to think about.

-M

[Ethiel]

I have a serious issue.

I cannot keep the gaming group meeting on a reasonable schedule.

Some or all will commit to gaming on a give day and then either cancel or no show.

Any ideas on how to keep a gaming group active and interested?

Or alternatively know any active gaming groups in the Houston, Tx area?

[Cam_Neely]

That begs the question: do you allow players to use laptops during game play?

Never during play, but we do have one there with most of the books, and the builder should issues arise, but we keep the three main books at the table.

Cell phones are turned off when the dice are taken out. We do take occasional breaks in that to 'check in with the tower' (ie Girlfriends/wifes)

[Aspenor]

I have a serious issue.

I cannot keep the gaming group meeting on a reasonable schedule.

Some or all will commit to gaming on a give day and then either cancel or no show.

Any ideas on how to keep a gaming group active and interested?

Or alternatively know any active gaming groups in the Houston, Tx area?

These must be just gaming group members, and not friends? This is the hardest part of gaming. I game with a close group of friends, so this rarely happens. We committed our Thursdays to gaming a long time ago, and made it clear to girlfriends/family that Thursday nights were off limits except in extenuating circumstances (funerals, etc.).

Unfortunately there aren't many ways to enforce this if your group isn't dedicated to the game.

[Ethiel]

the saddest part is we are all friends....I think it is the length of the friendship that makes it easier to bail.

over a decade in most cases, under 2 years in others. many have relocated to just far enough away to make it an easy out with gas prices... the others well lets say the most consistent people are the worst Rp'ers of the group. and if only one person shows and they can't hold their own in a duo dm/player game its not pretty.

usually I aim for one Saturday a month, but that is getting to be more and more like once every 6 months, so I am at a loss.

I just wish I could have another group to fill in for them when they are not into the game.....any game really.

[Aspenor]

That's pretty difficult, true. My group has a major advantage: we all live within 10 minutes of each other, possibly less. No gas? Carpool.

I would try to have a serious talk with all of them, and determine if they really even want to play. If they do want to play, have them all make a committment to it, a real one (which will invariably be impossible to enforce, anyway).

The typical response for this type of thing will be go to your LGCS (local game and comic shop) and try to recruit a second game. A lot of these places will let you advertise the group for free.

Most RPG boards will give you the same advice, and a lot of people will just simply say "dump them and find a new group." I always laugh at that, because it's not always the easiest thing to do.

[Ethiel]

yeah I have heard the LGCS line before......but most people don't realize how Dead the North East Side of Houston is for gaming.

We have one local store and it is beaten out by Barnes for RPG selections. It is a mainly Card flopping/Comic store.


The closest real RPG store is at least 40 miles away from where I currently reside.

I wish I had a simple solution. but the group I run with is comprised of the following:

Big Black Guy - Best Player (roguish normally) kinda lives far away and mismanages his money and so never has enough for gas to get to the game, either we spot him, he pawns something, or he no shows (also a WOW addict so can't interrupt the raiding schedule for RL friends)

Dorky white guy #1 - Dwarf lover (battle rager prototype.) Weird work schedule/not really into the game anymore (its to juvenile for him on a regular basis (more into video games non mmo currently))

Dorky white guy #2 - Weirdo (odd builds, usually some casting, always used incorrectly but humorously) always brings the food, takes the extremely lengthy turns, can't roleplay his way out of a paper bag.....

Dorky white guy #2's Nephew 1 - College kid, really smart, really into the game....unfortunately college kid i.e. never home long enough to get a decent campaign going.

Dorky white guy #2 Nephew 2 - High School kid (wanna be power gamer) Really into the game, no mode of self transportation, stuck being the group punching bag due to immaturity i.e. becoming everyone's BBEG by announcing he is there to destroy your city. (potential is there but group d-baggery might drive him away)

Dorky white guy #3 Co-worker Casual Gamer (Magic user, unintentional batman casters) Really new to the game, but has a good sense of what spells are good and which suck. Lives a great distance away, makes commuting to the game difficult. (LOTRO Fanatic, but not a moron with a Legolas/Gandalf build)

Dorky white guy #4 Rookie Cop - **** Schedule (most knowledge of the game in group save for the DM) engaged, just finished the academy, no time what so ever.

Dorky White guy #5 DM (aka Me) Event Planner, character builder, host, cook, alcohol provider. Almost always Available.

So you see the conundrum, the only 2 that can almost always make it save for myself are the Dorky White guy #2 and Nephew #2 if transportation is provided.

Not the makings of a great game, for them or me.

I have though of incorporating Skype into the game in order to bring those far afield into the game again but that is a pipe dream at the moment as they may not be committed enough to follow through.

[Postumus]

[re: role playing without combat]

This has always been one of the most fun parts of pnp d&d for me.



Yeah, try telling some of these min/max -er sorry, 'optimizer' - and DDO kids that you could actually play for hours, not kill something, and ENJOY IT.


Today I had a guy (referring to PnP no less) tell me that 'role playing detracts from the efficiency of the game."


Amazing.

[sainy_matthew]

yeah I have heard the LGCS line before......but most people don't realize how Dead the North East Side of Houston is for gaming.

We have one local store and it is beaten out by Barnes for RPG selections. It is a mainly Card flopping/Comic store.


The closest real RPG store is at least 40 miles away from where I currently reside.

I wish I had a simple solution. but the group I run with is comprised of the following:

Big Black Guy - Best Player (roguish normally) kinda lives far away and mismanages his money and so never has enough for gas to get to the game, either we spot him, he pawns something, or he no shows (also a WOW addict so can't interrupt the raiding schedule for RL friends)

Dorky white guy #1 - Dwarf lover (battle rager prototype.) Weird work schedule/not really into the game anymore (its to juvenile for him on a regular basis (more into video games non mmo currently))

Dorky white guy #2 - Weirdo (odd builds, usually some casting, always used incorrectly but humorously) always brings the food, takes the extremely lengthy turns, can't roleplay his way out of a paper bag.....

Dorky white guy #2's Nephew 1 - College kid, really smart, really into the game....unfortunately college kid i.e. never home long enough to get a decent campaign going.

Dorky white guy #2 Nephew 2 - High School kid (wanna be power gamer) Really into the game, no mode of self transportation, stuck being the group punching bag due to immaturity i.e. becoming everyone's BBEG by announcing he is there to destroy your city. (potential is there but group d-baggery might drive him away)

Dorky white guy #3 Co-worker Casual Gamer (Magic user, unintentional batman casters) Really new to the game, but has a good sense of what spells are good and which suck. Lives a great distance away, makes commuting to the game difficult. (LOTRO Fanatic, but not a moron with a Legolas/Gandalf build)

Dorky white guy #4 Rookie Cop - **** Schedule (most knowledge of the game in group save for the DM) engaged, just finished the academy, no time what so ever.

Dorky White guy #5 DM (aka Me) Event Planner, character builder, host, cook, alcohol provider. Almost always Available.

So you see the conundrum, the only 2 that can almost always make it save for myself are the Dorky White guy #2 and Nephew #2 if transportation is provided.

Not the makings of a great game, for them or me.

I have though of incorporating Skype into the game in order to bring those far afield into the game again but that is a pipe dream at the moment as they may not be committed enough to follow through.My suggesting & this is going to sound pretty harsh: Give up trying. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.

At best you try and find a new group, at worse you give it up for a while & hope to find people who are interested an available at a later date.