Stunning... sneak attack?

[zztophat]

I am going to be making a maul kensai half-orc the day the race becomes available.

My goal is to have high stunning blow, as high as possible. Also a decent trip but since I figure I'll be using a stunner most of the time and not a vertigo weapon it will never be stellar.

One thing I've noticed is that if you run fast enough you can often hit enemies before they are aware of you, getting in a trip or such before they are alerted. So would investing in hide and move silently be prudent for a stunner?

Would a capstone fighter be able to get a decent hide and move silent?

I've already determined my AC on this build will be useless so I think I will splash 2 rogue, wear light armor, and at least have evasion and UMD. Rogue levels also lend themselves to sneaking as well but I'm wondering if it is worth investing in.

I know stunning blow is good, and I know that sneak attacking with abilities like trip work well. However; is it worth it to make a stunning blow sneak attacker?


It's should be said that sneaking is not going to be my primary means of fighting, just an extra ability that lends itself to situations like taking out sentries and things like beholders without much struggle, sort of like how an assassin takes care of problem enemies.

[Vynnt]

1. Are you asking if you should invest in hide/move silent on a fighter for sneak attack? If that's the case, no you shouldn't. Fighters get very few skill points per level. Plus, you don't need to be sneaking for sneak attack damage, just not have aggro.

2. Are you implying that trip works better while sneaking? It doesn't. Sneak attack only increases damage and hit (with rogue levels or backstabbing items).

3. You can't have capstone if you splash. The choice is between 10% doublestrike + 1 feat or evasion + mini sneak attack + skills.

4. Start looking for mauls now. I made a maul user, and it's seriously hard to find good mauls. I don't know if mauls spawn less or people just vendor them, but there is never good mauls on the AH.

5. If you are having trouble with beholders, just throw on a deathblock item, and use either paralyzing (then flank) or dex debuffing weapons (i think its dex).

[zztophat]

1. Are you asking if you should invest in hide/move silent on a fighter for sneak attack? If that's the case, no you shouldn't. Fighters get very few skill points per level. Plus, you don't need to be sneaking for sneak attack damage, just not have aggro.

No, I'm not trying to get sneak attack damage, I'm trying to find a way to sneak up on something and stun it so that it can be killed quickly with no fuss.

2. Are you implying that trip works better while sneaking? It doesn't. Sneak attack only increases damage and hit (with rogue levels or backstabbing items).

No, that is not what I'm saying.

3. You can't have capstone if you splash. The choice is between 10% doublestrike + 1 feat or evasion + mini sneak attack + skills.

I'm aware.

4. Start looking for mauls now. I made a maul user, and it's seriously hard to find good mauls. I don't know if mauls spawn less or people just vendor them, but there is never good mauls on the AH.

I have mauls, I have been looking for mauls. I have a +10 waiting for level 16 and others for lower min levels.

5. If you are having trouble with beholders, just throw on a deathblock item, and use either paralyzing (then flank) or dex debuffing weapons (i think its dex).

I'm not having "trouble" with beholders, never have, however they are still annoying enemies to have to run at and be telekinesis thrown away or having to get rid of negative levels or taking a 400 hp hit from rolling a 1 on a disintegrate. And it's str debuffing weapons you're thinking of, they are vulnerable to str damage.



Responses in red.

[richieelias27]

4. Start looking for mauls now. I made a maul user, and it's seriously hard to find good mauls. I don't know if mauls spawn less or people just vendor them, but there is never good mauls on the AH.


It's both. They spawn less and people vendor them.

A few weeks of checking the House P and Shav brokers should net some good ones though.

[krud]

I am going to be making a maul kensai half-orc the day the race becomes available.

My goal is to have high stunning blow, as high as possible. Also a decent trip but since I figure I'll be using a stunner most of the time and not a vertigo weapon it will never be stellar.

One thing I've noticed is that if you run fast enough you can often hit enemies before they are aware of you, getting in a trip or such before they are alerted. So would investing in hide and move silently be prudent for a stunner?

Would a capstone fighter be able to get a decent hide and move silent?

I've already determined my AC on this build will be useless so I think I will splash 2 rogue, wear light armor, and at least have evasion and UMD. Rogue levels also lend themselves to sneaking as well but I'm wondering if it is worth investing in.

I know stunning blow is good, and I know that sneak attacking with abilities like trip work well. However; is it worth it to make a stunning blow sneak attacker?


It's should be said that sneaking is not going to be my primary means of fighting, just an extra ability that lends itself to situations like taking out sentries and things like beholders without much struggle, sort of like how an assassin takes care of problem enemies.
I had a tactics ftr/rog that used both trip and stunning blow. He started out as a 8/8 split, but has been rerolled and LRd into his current 13rog/4ftr/3pal. It works really well, until amrath and above, then stun becomes almost worthless, unless you can get the DCs up higher (with a super high strength, monk abilities, or enhancements). Trip still works, but doesn't generate auto sneak attacks. I haven't carried stunning blow or improved trip since amrath came out.

Imo, unless you want to take more levels of rogue, I wouldn't bother with trying to do the sneak-stun thing. Use the few skill points you get with ftr on umd and such. It'll be tough to keep hide/move silently up with a majority of ftr levels.

[zztophat]

I had a tactics ftr/rog that used both trip and stunning blow. He started out as a 8/8 split, but has been rerolled and LRd into his current 13rog/4ftr/3pal. It works really well, until amrath and above, then stun becomes almost worthless, unless you can get the DCs up higher (with a super high strength, monk abilities, or enhancements). Trip still works, but doesn't generate auto sneak attacks. I haven't carried stunning blow or improved trip since amrath came out.

Imo, unless you want to take more levels of rogue, I wouldn't bother with trying to do the sneak-stun thing. Use the few skill points you get with ftr on umd and such. It'll be tough to keep hide/move silently up with a majority of ftr levels.

My current aim for Stunning DCs is 36 (enhancements included), of course it may be higher dependent on what str enhancements half-orcs have but 36 is my conservative estimate. Through experience I've learned that DCs in the mid thirties are enough to land on epics and high-level mobs, not perfectly but, often enough to make it worth trying (amrath's GH effect makes it a little harder there than elsewhere but it's still possible).

As for not having enough sneak, I tend to agree; fighter levels would make it hard but I was hopeful someone would know of a means to allow me to take high ranks of hide and move silent and still have enough left for balance and UMD without having to gimp an important stat.