Turn Undead Question

[pappo]

I have a lvl 5 Pally. I took Improved Turn enhancement, I took Divine Might enhancement, and I have a sacred item which gives me +2 to turn undead.

I am running Catacombs and when I issue he command to turn undead, many of then are stunned or are sitting in a crouch and I can kill them individually.

A guild mate of mine also has a lvl 5 Pally. When he issues the turn undead, most of them vaporize around him.

Why is my turn undead so much less powerful? I would like to figure this out before I do Delara's.

Any help would be appreciated.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I have a lvl 5 Pally. I took Improved Turn enhancement, I took Divine Might enhancement, and I have a sacred item which gives me +2 to turn undead.

I am running Catacombs and when I issue he command to turn undead, many of then are stunned or are sitting in a crouch and I can kill them individually.

A guild mate of mine also has a lvl 5 Pally. When he issues the turn undead, most of them vaporize around him.

Why is my turn undead so much less powerful? I would like to figure this out before I do Delara's.

Any help would be appreciated.

He might have taken Improved Turning or started with a higher CHA than you.


However, don't worry about your Turn Undead DC too much; there aren't any Undead at end game and you'll only use your TU attempts to power Divine Might. Just make sure your CHA is high enough to get the level of Divine Might you want.

[Tom_Hunters]

right, my lvl 20 pally (26 CHA) can scare those giant skele in GH Tor to cower in a corner with chance, never purified them though
Turns never land in any higher quests in my own experience

Of coz, my CHA is not particularly high, but same as Aylin said, divine might is a better option at end game

But there is also a Silver Flame item u can obtain from Necropolis to enhance ur Turning power if u really enjoy it (it's a shield iirc)

[pappo]

right, my lvl 20 pally (26 CHA) can scare those giant skele in GH Tor to cower in a corner with chance, never purified them though
Turns never land in any higher quests in my own experience

Of coz, my CHA is not particularly high, but same as Aylin said, divine might is a better option at end game

But there is also a Silver Flame item u can obtain from Necropolis to enhance ur Turning power if u really enjoy it (it's a shield iirc)

Ok thanks for clearing up Turn Undead. I do have Improved Turning now. My TU is making the cower, but not purify.

On the subject of Divine Might (DM). I have it now but am not sure how to use it. I have it on my hotbar and have clicked it but I don't see what it is supposed to be doing. Is DM like Trip or Stunning Blow where you get close to the target and make it the first melee action you do ?

[Rendigar]

I thought Diving Might was a +2 sacred Bonus to damage for melee that lasted for 1 minute. It should have no impact on your turns.

[Meowin]

Mind that turning involves rolling dice, both to determine which undead your turn attempt affects, and how many. Even with exactly the same setup your character might turn less effective just because you rolled unluckily. And as Rendigar said:


Activate this ability to gain a +2 Sacred bonus to damage for one minute. Consumes a use of your turn undead ability. Requires a 14 base Charisma.

This will give you +2 damage on melee attacks for one minute. You should also get the appropriate buff icon ion the upper right corner, which gives you the effect description as a tooltip when you hover over it with the mouse.

[jigga]

nevermind thought it was cleric

[parvo]

Is your friends character reincarnated?

[pappo]

I thought Diving Might was a +2 sacred Bonus to damage for melee that lasted for 1 minute. It should have no impact on your turns.

Paladin Divine Might I
Usage: Active
Cost: 1 action point
Spent: 15 action points
Available to Paladin class level 5
Activate this ability to gain a +2 Sacred bonus to damage for one minute. Consumes a use of your turn undead ability. Requires a 14 base Charisma.

[pappo]

Is your friends character reincarnated?

No. It is his first Paladin build as well.

[Urdadi]

This seems like a good place to insert this question.

Does the "Improved Turning" feat stack with the "Improved Turning (I, II, III)" enhancements?

Since there's no place to see your turning ability stat/bonus, this question has been bugging me.
What does stack with the TU ability?
I know Sacred items don't(aside from pally spell), but what does?


To the OP, does your friend have the "Seek Eternal Rest" spell active on him when he destroys them?
Do you?
Can't beat a +4 to level!

[pappo]

To the OP, does your friend have the "Seek Eternal Rest" spell active on him when he destroys them?
Do you?
Can't beat a +4 to level!

I believe he does have it on, and no I do not since I cannot get above 2SP, unless I am outside a quest and use a WIS pot.

[Nandos]

This is taken from the wiki, it is about clerics, but most of it should apply to paladins as well.


There are also items, spells and enhancements which can help increase your turning ability by boosting your effective cleric level for turning. These bonuses are added all parts of the turn undead calculation that use Cleric Level:

◦a Sacred item, adds +2 enhancement bonus to your cleric level.
◦The spell Seek Eternal Rest will add a stackable +4 sacred bonus to your cleric level.
◦The cleric/paladin enhancement line of Improved Turning Ⓢ can add from 1 to 3 points to your cleric level.
◦The feat Improved Turning Ⓢ will add 1 to your cleric level.
◦The shield item Aegis of Flame adds 6 hit dice to those turned when equipped.
◦Armor of Command adds a bonus to Charisma based checks, which might include Turning attempts.
◦The helm item Seraphim adds 2 hit dice to those turned when equipped
◦The trinket Token of the Faithful adds +2 to the cleric level, 2 hit dice to the maxium and 4 hit dice to the total turned

[AylinIsAwesome]

I believe he does have it on, and no I do not since I cannot get above 2SP, unless I am outside a quest and use a WIS pot.

Get some House P favour for +4 WIS for an hour (or was it 30 minutes?) and wear an SP item. Power 2 items should be easy to get.

[Urdadi]

+1 on the Power items. These are easy to get.
I looted a Power III mace at level 5, grants 30sp.
I run around with it while in public places, keeping sp filled.
Jump into quest with it, buff party (Prot from Evil), then switch to useful melee wep.
Before shrining, switch back to mace to get full sp for buffs.

I'd highly recommend getting something. Just enough to get you 10sp for the SER spell.

As to the items listed from the Wiki, I've read them before, and that still doesn't answer my question.
Only one thing in the list is described as "stackable", and that's the sacred spell boost.
It doesn't state whether Imp Turn feat and Imp Turn enh stack with each other.

[AylinIsAwesome]

As to the items listed from the Wiki, I've read them before, and that still doesn't answer my question.
Only one thing in the list is described as "stackable", and that's the sacred spell boost.
It doesn't state whether Imp Turn feat and Imp Turn enh stack with each other.

Don't worry about taking the feat; you'd just regret it later. Or pay the Mindflayer lots of money to nom on your brain a little. Either or.

[Urdadi]

LOL!

As true as that may be, the decision is still solely based on whether they stack
A +1 to level on turning could be important. +4 additional levels from feats/enh, plus +4 for SER spell, plus +2 levels from sacred ring = 10 levels above current cleric/pally level in the turn undead calculation.

My pally started out as a DPS/moderate AC build.
Took 2 fighter levels, then the rest to pally.
Currently, at level 8, I am a level 6 paladin.
So, for turning, my level is: (assuming feat+enh stacking)
6 + 2(sacred ring) + 4(SER spell) + 1(Imp Turn I enh) + 1(Imp Turn feat) = 14!
With my Charisma mod being +6, I can currently turn undead with a HD of <=12 guaranteed. (1d20+6)(7-26 possible HD)
(do I have my math right???)
However, if the feat does not stack, I'm guaranteed to turn only HD 11's.

Perhaps that does look like a wasted feat to some. I'm undecided as of yet.

[Spoonwelder]

Only 2 SP - you are doing something vastly wrong with your stats and/or build.

Aside from Seek Eternal Rest spell you will want SP for Divine Sacrifice. Rotating this with Smite's and you wade through baddies in no time. So get some SP so you can sacrifice it.

[RealKorike]

The turn undead feat and the enhancements stack.

Divine Light Paladin enhancement makes your turns damage undead. useful for several early levels, esp if you use HotD Pre for Delara's/Necropolis hunting.

[Urdadi]

Thanks Real!

Just curious, but how did you find the answer?

[AylinIsAwesome]

Only 2 SP - you are doing something vastly wrong with your stats and/or build.

Aside from Seek Eternal Rest spell you will want SP for Divine Sacrifice. Rotating this with Smite's and you wade through baddies in no time. So get some SP so you can sacrifice it.

OP, this would be an example of a post to ignore.

2 SP is standard for your level.

[RealKorike]

Due to the fact that I had that feat and those enhancements prior to getting rid of the feat (expensive.. took a while to get the dragonshard needed) and respecced out the enhancements. Not worth it, to me at least. Needed the feat for other stuff. Paladin's don't get enough of them.

[~anvil42]

Why turn when you can get divine light and do loads of damage to them? I have a lvl 9 and also a lvl 20 pally and I never try to turn-my lvl 20 can drop a ton of divine light III's and that pretty much does it. :) Just saying.

[Tom_Hunters]

Why turn when you can get divine light and do loads of damage to them? I have a lvl 9 and also a lvl 20 pally and I never try to turn-my lvl 20 can drop a ton of divine light III's and that pretty much does it. :) Just saying.

For myself, it's just for the fun XD
to watch those skinny skele to cower or vaporize, seems a bit more entertaining to just watch them dead :P

[pappo]

For myself, it's just for the fun XD
to watch those skinny skele to cower or vaporize, seems a bit more entertaining to just watch them dead :P

That is how I feel too. This game is just about fun for me, and watching them vaporize is funny. I will have to check out the Divine light stuff though.
I selected Defender of Siberys at lvl 6, is that a mistake if I wanted to check out the Divine Light damage? Is that only for KoTC ?

All of this is new to me since I never ran a Pally before. So far I am liking the saves, high AC, and my bastard sword/tower shield combo. I have a Carnifex axe for THF melee action also.

[prettychaos]

didn't see this covered yet but the skeletons only vaporise if you are 2 times the level of their HD so basically you need to be double their level before they will vaporise, to raise your "effective level" use the level 1 spell seek eternal rest and some of the items mentioned. also the feats improved turning and enhancments all stack to add to this too

Destroying Undead

If you have twice as many levels (or more) as the undead have Hit Dice, you destroy any that you would normally turn.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Turn_or_Rebuke_Undead

couldn't find a link to turning in the compendium but the rules are in the turn undead tooltip in game and follow the same pattern

[jstawarz2]

That is how I feel too. This game is just about fun for me, and watching them vaporize is funny. I will have to check out the Divine light stuff though.
I selected Defender of Siberys at lvl 6, is that a mistake if I wanted to check out the Divine Light damage? Is that only for KoTC ?

No, Divine Light is an Enchancement available to any paladin. It burns a Turn Undead use to cause 4d6 (for Divine Light I) Light damage to all undead in a (relatively large) radius centered on the paladin. Useful for Delera's and Necropolis (so far). Makes short work of all the Ghostly Skeleton's in the later parts of Delera's. Even more fun than paired Ghost Touch weapons for all the wraiths. :D


All of this is new to me since I never ran a Pally before. So far I am liking the saves, high AC, and my bastard sword/tower shield combo. I have a Carnifex axe for THF melee action also.

You know, I've not tried Carnifex on the Paladin, yet. Would be interesting. Although, I'm loving the dual khopesh layout that I've got right now. Now, if only I could manage to pull a Holy/PG version. Oh, well. Until then, I'll have to settle for Flaming Burst on one and Shocking Burst on the other. :P

[Urdadi]

OP, this would be an example of a post to ignore.

2 SP is standard for your level.

I can't really agree with this.
While he should definitely ignore trolling posts, he shouldn't accept 2sp as standard for a lvl 5 paladin.
You need Wisdom to cast your spells, and Wisdom adds to your spell points.
If you only have 2, then you're Wis is very low. You won't be able to cast many of your higher level spells unless this is raised.
(lvl1 needs 11, lvl2 needs 12, lvl3 needs 13, lvl4 needs 14)
For my latest Pally build, I put 14 into WIS and immediately had 28sp off the Veteran boat(at level 4).
14 is high enough to cast level 4 spells, and I don't have to worry with it the rest of the game, nor waste an item slot on a + to WIS. (I'll probably get flamed for that suggestion, but I'm going for pure AC, and didn't need the STR)

Don't worry too much about the Wis if you aren't going to use higher level spells. Get a WIS item to raise you to just the level of spells you want to cast.
Get a Power weapon for your spell points. I spotted a Dagger of Power III on the AH last night for around 1.5K plat. Not bad...

[Urdadi]

To the OP, I see from your other threads that you've addressed your spell points issue.
Good luck on your turns!

[Tom_Hunters]

As for my own experience, i really do think 14 WIS at creation is a waste
Put to CHA/DEX, or even INT for skill point is way better

at Class level 4 we can only cast level 1 spell
Level 4 spell is like class lvl 12 (or 11 or 13)

So I bet if u have 12 WIS at creation, and find/buy a +2 WIS tome (after lvl 7), u will be able to cast anything without any WIS item
If you are worried about SP pool, go for wizardry items that you switch to when u shrine

So i bet, if u really want to save a spot, 12 WIS is the very maximum I'd do at creation (or correspondingly, if u have a +3 tome, 11 WIS is the max)

[tgun]

I can't really agree with this.
While he should definitely ignore trolling posts, he shouldn't accept 2sp as standard for a lvl 5 paladin.
You need Wisdom to cast your spells, and Wisdom adds to your spell points.
If you only have 2, then you're Wis is very low. You won't be able to cast many of your higher level spells unless this is raised.
(lvl1 needs 11, lvl2 needs 12, lvl3 needs 13, lvl4 needs 14)
For my latest Pally build, I put 14 into WIS and immediately had 28sp off the Veteran boat(at level 4).
14 is high enough to cast level 4 spells, and I don't have to worry with it the rest of the game, nor waste an item slot on a + to WIS. (I'll probably get flamed for that suggestion, but I'm going for pure AC, and didn't need the STR)

Don't worry too much about the Wis if you aren't going to use higher level spells. Get a WIS item to raise you to just the level of spells you want to cast.
Get a Power weapon for your spell points. I spotted a Dagger of Power III on the AH last night for around 1.5K plat. Not bad...


8wis + 6item = 14wis. enough to cast all paladin spells and 6 build pts to put somewhere else like str so you could actually kill something. Yes 2sp at lvl 4 or 5 is normal and nothing to worry about.