Where are the familiars?

[Seamonkeysix]

I saw this topic brought up in a thread about 2 years ago, but it died. No real reason I could see as to why we don't have familiars in DDO. This is a basic concept in PnP that somehow isn't an option in DDO. Sure, you can summon monsters, but it isn't the same as having a familiar.

Is there some reason why familiars are left out? Overpowered? Too hard to implement? Nobody wants them? I know there are lots of things we would like to see first, but it seems strange that familiars were totally left out of the game.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/1825/motivationalposterfamil.jpg

[CrescentCalling_5]

/signed

I miss my Raven ;c

[Lorien_the_First_One]

So you are good with the loss of XP and not being able to summon another one for a year if they die?

[Seamonkeysix]

So you are good with the loss of XP and not being able to summon another one for a year if they die?

Seeing as how DDO has completely changed the spell casting piece of PnP, I would think it would be tweaked to some degree. Perhaps like a death penalty, similar to the touch of dolruthh...taking you essentially down for a level for a period of time. Then it makes sense that you be unable to re-summon for a cool down period, similar to some of the faith lines (10 minutes I believe).

Luckily DDO doesn't strictly follow a lot of the rules from PnP due to the way the game is played. I don't think my constitution would have been able to handle all the raise deads I have received! ;)

[Chai]

So you are good with the loss of XP and not being able to summon another one for a year if they die?

Yeah, cause you know, we can only rest in DDO once every real life eight hours, right? :p

I think the spell caster mechanics have been significantly changed enough from D&D where they could come up with viable familiar mechanic for DDO.

I would still rather see fixes to existing issues and things that were previously promised implemented first though...

[Faelyndel]

"Where are the familiars?"

My guess is hiding with the cleric domains. Maybe they're even with the druids and half-elves!

[kernal42]

I certainly like familiars in p&p, but they really have no place in DDO. Especially considering they'd likely behave like summons (or, at best, hirelings), I'm happier not having them around.

I could see if they were implemented similar to p&p domains, or DDO's monk paths (like way of clever monkey, etc) as an AP-based static buff, it'd be a reasonable addition; unfortunately, this is so removed from the classic familiar flavor that I'm sure it wouldn't be implemented.

Cheers,
Kernal

[Memnir]

The Owlbears ate them all, and then the Gnomes ate the Owlbears, so the Druids killed all the Gnomes with their Slings and Spears...


Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[Seamonkeysix]

The Owlbears ate them all, and then the Gnomes ate the Owlbears, so the Druids killed all the Gnomes with their Slings and Spears...


Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.


Does this end with an old lady who swallows a horse? ;)

[Nott]

Does this end with an old lady who swallows a horse? ;)Of course.

[Visty]

you dont have a familiar cause wizards and sorcs automaticly get the ACF where you replace your familiar with the 20hp feat at lvl1.
and cause of that the DM houseruled that all other classes get 20hp too, as it would be unbalanced otherwise

[Seamonkeysix]

you dont have a familiar cause wizards and sorcs automaticly get the ACF where you replace your familiar with the 20hp feat at lvl1.
and cause of that the DM houseruled that all other classes get 20hp too, as it would be unbalanced otherwise

But depending on the familiar, you get bonuses to different things than just HP.

[Waukeen]

So you are good with the loss of XP and not being able to summon another one for a year if they die?

QFT.

enjoy your familiars.
ding. whoops,
xp dept reinstated just for you!

[Visty]

But depending on the familiar, you get bonuses to different things than just HP.

umm, no, the familiar type has absolutly no effect

[Seamonkeysix]

QFT.

enjoy your familiars.
ding. whoops,
xp dept reinstated just for you!

I am sticking to my "treat it like the death penalty" idea. Minus level for 1 minute or 2 or whatever. If we actually followed PnP rules around here, none of our toons would be around long. ;)

(Case in point...wonder how long a PnP party of level 7-10s would last against an ancient red dragon :D )

[Doxmaster]

Does this end with an old lady who swallows a horse? ;)

I saw that video.

I felt fear.

[CrescentCalling_5]

I am sticking to my "treat it like the death penalty" idea. Minus level for 1 minute or 2 or whatever. If we actually followed PnP rules around here, none of our toons would be around long. ;)

(Case in point...wonder how long a PnP party of level 7-10s would last against an ancient red dragon :D )

My guess is, 5 rounds.

Round 1:
Party attacks annoy the dragon

Round 2:
Dragon contemplates whether he should take pity on the stupidity of the party

Round 3:
Dragon takes pity and waves it's wings, blasting the players away

Round 4:
One player says something offensive

Round 5:
Dragon is thoroughly annoyed and turns all players into barbeque, quickfired.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

umm, no, the familiar type has absolutly no effect

read the book again

[fuzzy1guy]

I'll only support familiars if they make the penalty for their death PERMENANT.

Such as a permenant loss of -2 con. And no possible way to gain it back.



You want the extra power toy? You risk the PERMENANT damage. Play smart.

[Seamonkeysix]

I'll only support familiars if they make the penalty for their death PERMENANT.

Such as a permenant loss of -2 con. And no possible way to gain it back.



You want the extra power toy? You risk the PERMENANT damage. Play smart.

Kind of like when you are supposed to lose 1 Con each time you die and are resurrected? :rolleyes:

[Seamonkeysix]

umm, no, the familiar type has absolutly no effect

Bat Master gains a +3 bonus on Listen checks
Cat Master gains a +3 bonus on Move Silently checks
Hawk Master gains a +3 bonus on Spot checks in bright light
Lizard Master gains a +3 bonus on Climb checks
Owl Master gains a +3 bonus on Spot checks in shadows
Rat Master gains a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves
Raven1 Master gains a +3 bonus on Appraise checks
Snake2 Master gains a +3 bonus on Bluff checks
Toad Master gains +3 hit points
Weasel Master gains a +2 bonus on Reflex saves

[Seamonkeysix]

My guess is, 5 rounds.

Round 1:
Party attacks annoy the dragon

Round 2:
Dragon contemplates whether he should take pity on the stupidity of the party

Round 3:
Dragon takes pity and waves it's wings, blasting the players away

Round 4:
One player says something offensive

Round 5:
Dragon is thoroughly annoyed and turns all players into barbeque, quickfired.

That...or if it was bored.

Round 1: Party attacks and annoys dragon

Round 2: Dragon uses suggestion on fighter and suggests he attack the party because they are his mortal enemy

Round 3: Dragon watches in amusement as party fights.

Round 4: Dragon uses suggestion on 2nd party member as group wittles away at itself.

Round 5: Dragon finishes off whoever is left with claws and teeth.

Round 6: Dragon checks bodies for treasure to add to personal loot.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Why do you want familiars?
Is it because you really want these skill bonuses?

Bat Master gains a +3 bonus on Listen checks
Cat Master gains a +3 bonus on Move Silently checks
Hawk Master gains a +3 bonus on Spot checks in bright light
Lizard Master gains a +3 bonus on Climb checks
Owl Master gains a +3 bonus on Spot checks in shadows
Rat Master gains a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves
Raven1 Master gains a +3 bonus on Appraise checks
Snake2 Master gains a +3 bonus on Bluff checks
Toad Master gains +3 hit points
Weasel Master gains a +2 bonus on Reflex saves
I don't think those are going to help a whole ton (maybe Weasel for those Wiz/Rog Insightful Reflex builds).


Do you want one just because it's in tabletop, and/or because it looks cool?
You're asking for a cosmetic pet, then, more or less.

I'm not saying your reason is wrong, whatever it is, but let's find out your reason and proceed from there.

[sigtrent]

Simple: Too much work on graphics, not enough impact on game play.

Its investment vs payoff basically.

Mind you in D&D proper, I once got owned by a familiar in a tournament. I turned his master to stone on round 1, but the guy had found a loophole in the tournament rules and his familiar killed me by using magic arrows as melee weapons. There was a game clock that did damage and the familiar could heal by stabbing itself with healing arrows and I couldn't heal. I was using a tricked out familiar as well that operated a cube of force for me (he had one too).

So familiars can be tricked out.. but not in the way you would see them in DDO.

[Visty]

Bat Master gains a +3 bonus on Listen checks
Cat Master gains a +3 bonus on Move Silently checks
Hawk Master gains a +3 bonus on Spot checks in bright light
Lizard Master gains a +3 bonus on Climb checks
Owl Master gains a +3 bonus on Spot checks in shadows
Rat Master gains a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves
Raven1 Master gains a +3 bonus on Appraise checks
Snake2 Master gains a +3 bonus on Bluff checks
Toad Master gains +3 hit points
Weasel Master gains a +2 bonus on Reflex saves

but you dont get that when you trade your familiar cause of the ACF (alternate class feature if you dont know what that is)

so i was right and you are wrong

[Seamonkeysix]

Why do you want familiars?
Is it because you really want these skill bonuses?

I don't think those are going to help a whole ton (maybe Weasel for those Wiz/Rog Insightful Reflex builds).


Do you want one just because it's in tabletop, and/or because it looks cool?
You're asking for a cosmetic pet, then, more or less.

I'm not saying your reason is wrong, whatever it is, but let's find out your reason and proceed from there.

Well, heck...you're right. Why would I want anything that is actually in Dungeons and Dragons? I mean we don't have animal companions for our Rangers. We don't even have Druids. No gnomes, half-elves, half-orcs, ect.... We list our damage as 1-6 because we don't want to say 1d6 because its too...well, Dungeons and Dragons like.

The reason I would like to see it is because this is supposed to be Dungeons and Dragons. Familiars have been a part of having a spell caster since D&D was born. Is is a cool feature? Yes. Do familiars have the potential to be very useful in way more ways than listed? Yes. Familiars can up you stats, warn you of invisible creatures, allow you to see the map, ect... I'm not saying their implementation would be easy, or that I would like to see them before many other things, but this is Dungeons and Dragons, isn't it?

Or it's supposed to be...

[Seamonkeysix]

but you dont get that when you trade your familiar cause of the ACF (alternate class feature if you dont know what that is)

so i was right and you are wrong

Um...are we reading the same books? There is only one ACF I can think of where you trade your familiar for the ability to cast different spells. Several other ACFs increase the abililties of your familiar. (See some examples below)

Immediate Magic PHB II: Familiars have many more applications.

Drakken Familiar DM: Your familiar gains the dragonblood subtype and a breath weapon instead of the ability to deliver touch spells.

Wizard of Sun and Moon Dungeonscape: You trade your familiar for the ability to cast different spells per day depending on your surroundings.

Ect...

[Visty]

Um...are we reading the same books? There is only one ACF I can think of where you trade your familiar for the ability to cast different spells. Several other ACFs increase the abililties of your familiar. (See some examples below)

Immediate Magic PHB II: Familiars have many more applications.

Drakken Familiar DM: Your familiar gains the dragonblood subtype and a breath weapon instead of the ability to deliver touch spells.

Wizard of Sun and Moon Dungeonscape: You trade your familiar for the ability to cast different spells per day depending on your surroundings.

Ect...

you obviously havent understand the intent of my first post

the following ACF is used:
Turbine Powercreep: Trade your Familiar for 20 more HP

(btw, the phb2 ACF removes your familiar too)

[Seamonkeysix]

you obviously havent understand the intent of my first post

the following ACF is used:
Turbine Powercreep: Trade your Familiar for 20 more HP

(btw, the phb2 ACF removes your familiar too)

I will have to log into one of my casters. Are you saying that it is listed in feats or something like that? Turbine somewhere gave a reason why familiars aren't an option in game? That wouldn't make me happy from the standpoint of familiars, but it would be interesting that they gave a nod to a piece of the game that should be there.

[Visty]

I will have to log into one of my casters. Are you saying that it is listed in feats or something like that? Turbine somewhere gave a reason why familiars aren't an option in game? That wouldn't make me happy from the standpoint of familiars, but it would be interesting that they gave a nod to a piece of the game that should be there.

http://api.ning.com/files/3JTfZWtD4qq8gjdlaYXg6C56pj5BCKboxWilYYLFZp4_/FACEPALM.jpg
(€: this image fits better)

[Seamonkeysix]

http://api.ning.com/files/3JTfZWtD4qq8gjdlaYXg6C56pj5BCKboxWilYYLFZp4_/FACEPALM.jpg
(€: this image fits better)

This is how I feel! :D

So far I have looked up your info on ACFs to make sure I didn't forget something, only to find that you're taking your own slant on it because there are plenty of ACFs that don't make you lose your familiar. Then you pulled some +20 hp Turbine Powercreep thing out that I can't find anywhere (including the all powerful Google search). I am starting to think you are just attempting to send me into

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/9103/nerdrage.gif

[Cylinwolf]

you dont have a familiar cause wizards and sorcs automaticly get the ACF where you replace your familiar with the 20hp feat at lvl1.
and cause of that the DM houseruled that all other classes get 20hp too, as it would be unbalanced otherwise

That is the most backwards and overcomplicated response with no reasoning behind it that I've ever read on the forums.

Just because you can draw random links between features present and those not present doesn't mean they're in any way related.

[Visty]

That is the most backwards and overcomplicated response with no reasoning behind it that I've ever read on the forums.

see, at least someone got the intent of the post