Kensai Arcane Archer

[karl_k0ch]

Hey all,

I am currently thinking about a Kensai Arcane Archer, i.e. an Elf who takes mainly Fighter levels in order to get the damage enhancing Kensai enhancements and who also takes the racial PrE Elven Arcane Archer. I know that ranged damage is not great, but I guess one could fit in the full TWF chain.

Here are my questions:


Is Kensai III an essential improvement over Kensai II? (I don't know yet if I go 12 Fighter or 18 Fighter)
Are Precise Shot and/or improved precise shot important? (If not, I'd leave Dex at 16-18 and raise Str for damage)
Are the Action Points too tight for Kensai III and another PrE?
Is Dex really more important than Str? With a high starting Dex and all the Weapon foci, isn't it a better idea to increase damage rather than to hit?
Which skills are the most beneficial to an Archer? UMD? Balance?


For a Kensai III, I'm leaning towards 18 Fighter, 1 Bard, 1 Ranger.
For a Kensai II, 12 Fighter, 6 Ranger, 2 Rogue seems like the most versatile split to me.

Does anyone have some useful information about such builds?

Here is what I consider my first take to this topic, it is my first look at Fighters at all:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Elf Male
(18 Fighter \ 1 Ranger \ 1 Bard)
Hit Points: 326
Spell Points: 155
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 14
Will: 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 17 19
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Rapid Shot


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Manyshot


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Ranged Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged Weapons


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Kensei Longbow Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Longbow Mastery II
Enhancement: Kensei Longbow Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
Enhancement: Fighter Longbow Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Longbow Specialization II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

[FluffyCalico]

Most people don't like arcane archers even though they can do alot of damage. Do you think they are going to be more approving of a fighter archer?

[karl_k0ch]

With my main character, I am playing in a guild with some very nice people and I guess I would be able to get at least their approval.

I am fully aware of the fact that playing an Archer also involves switching to melee if necessary (that's why I included TWF, ITWF and GTWF as well as a WF:Slashing and the racial Scimitar enhancements) and its effectivity is heavily dependent on the players skill to kite properly.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I have a Ftr17/Rgr1/Wiz1 AA build.

He's a darn good archer. Maybe the best I have seen. But disapointing in kill counts. (usually)

(note: no Slayer arrows yet.)

He's also a one trick pony.

I like my Rgrs better.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Kensai 3 is a major improvement, as in addition to the extra basic damage it gives an extra +1 to crit range - more dps is always good since it'll be tight anyway. However, the build with more ranger levels has the benefit of a couple of self-buff spells so its pretty much personal preference for focus vs. utility.

Precise shot is very useful - being able focus on a caster without having to worry about other enemies in the way is always useful, and it makes the sleeping dust quest a LOT easier.

Action points arent too tight - its no real hassle to get kensai and arcane archer together

dex influences the to-hit, str will boost damage - i'd say make sure you have a base dex of 17-18 so you can get imp precise shot if you want it, but put the rest in strength, as you'll get a boost to hit from the kensai enhancements anyway.

My own arcane archer build is wizard rather than bard since it gives no-fail wand use from the start & a 2min shield spell plus extended displacement (with extend spell, good for magic/force missiles as well as extra AC early on & displace is great from the dragonmarks) and was 2hander capable (only 1st 1 to make space for the marks) for melee. However, bard for more versatile umd to make use of raise & Heal scrolls is a matter of preference... if you have the TP to spare, maybe even a LR at higher level into the bard variant could be an option?

I find the build peaks for dps vs. enemy health around level 8-10, as you can have a silver bow, AA imbue, 1 tier of kensai & elemental arrows that will tear through most things without too much hassle (especially with manyshot too) - but beyond that, you'll need to make use of special effects more, like paralysing, weaken/enfeeble, disruption, banishment etc.

one of the big strengths of the build is economy - no need to farm rare gear or find expensive weapons on the AH for DR penetration, as the right bow plus the right arrows can get through just about anything that isnt DR/bludgeon or /slashing

[sirdanile]

Most people don't like arcane archers even though they can do alot of damage.

For 20 seconds every 100 seconds.

I have a capped Arcane Archer on Thelanis and let me just say, put level ups into strength.

The Kensai part is completely worth it, the boost to your crit range is huge for dps.
Go 1 Barb instead of 1 Ranger - Pick up bow strength through fighter feats, Bump up TWF and drop OTWF altogether.

Your strength should be about equal to your dex, Mines 30 Str, 33 Dex

[Jacoby]

I have played this build even before the arcane and kensai prestige enhancements were available. The extra Crit range and fighter str is the only thing you'll be gaining of worth and you'll be losing 25% ranged alacrity and ranger buffs. You will have to max you str for this build to be more effective per hit as true rangers will hit 15% more often.

Str
18 Base
+6 Item
+4 Level ups
+2 Fighter Str
+2 Exceptional
+2 Tome
=
34

You can still get a 30 or 32 with a pure. Not sure the extra punch or Kensai enhancements are worth it.

[Aesop]

I had this nice long post and then a power surge killed it... **** brown outs ... and now I have work so quickly.


Diplo
UMD
Spot


Drop OTWF and MT

Get IPS and PS

Balance the Str and Dex with a nod towards if you don't hit you don't damage... and Str has more buffs readily available (ie I would put Dex slightly higher)

you can get 30s in both I think before buffs and an 18 str just wastes needed build points

15 str +3 Ftr Enhancements +2 Level
17 dex +2 Elf Enhancements +3 Level


anyway I've gotta go

Aesop

[karl_k0ch]

Thanks for the input.

MT
AA prereq. :/

[unbongwah]

Actually, with a bard, wiz, or sorc splash, you don't need Mental Toughness; however, you may not have enough SPs to power your imbues without it, rendering it a somewhat hollow victory.

[Elfvyra]

Actually, with a bard, wiz, or sorc splash, you don't need Mental Toughness; however, you may not have enough SPs to power your imbues without it, rendering it a somewhat hollow victory.

With all the Power, Wizardry and Archmage items out there, powering the Imbues shouldn't be an issue....
;)

[karl_k0ch]

On a second thought: How viable would be a Falchion as melee weapon? I would then drop TWF, ITWF, GTWF (OTWF and MT being exchanged with precise shots) in favor of WF: Slash, and WS, GWS: Slash. To be honest, I have little interest in farming mats for two melee weapons if the main purpose of the char is ranging. One might be acceptable.

[tihocan]

On a second thought: How viable would be a Falchion as melee weapon? I would then drop TWF, ITWF, GTWF (OTWF and MT being exchanged with precise shots) in favor of WF: Slash, and WS, GWS: Slash. To be honest, I have little interest in farming mats for two melee weapons if the main purpose of the char is ranging. One might be acceptable.
You should be fine with a Falchion. Definitely not top melee DPS, but since that's not your goal...

[Yajerman01]

<Edit> I read the build wrong, sorry, I went 12/6/2 Fighter/Ranger/Monk.

He should be fine, in the feat makeup you are going to be able to go Kensai II with greater specialization and focus in scimitars and greater focus in range. My stats are a bit different as I went Strength.
16
16
13
11
13
8

I went 11 Int so I can grab CE later down the road. Wisdom 13 because I plan on going Rainment and not only the boost in Will Save but AC

Focused skills are in:
Balance
UMD
Jump
Spot
Silent moves
Hide
with a push in tumble for flavor

with a starting strength at 16, (+5 levels) (+2 Fighter enhancement) (+2 Rams) (+3 tome) (+6 Item) (+2 Exceptional STr) (+8 Kensai Power surge) (+6 Psyonic - titan gloves) (+2 Rage) (+2 Madstone) (+2 Double Madstone) = 56, using a Shroud or Unwavering Ardency Bow with your Arcane Arrows is going to rock! (Add FE for additional Damage)

[Yajerman01]

heres what he would look like:

hang on, messed up on the build coding

[Crazyfruit]

Hi Meinir, Kwiz here.


Is Kensai III an essential improvement over Kensai II? (I don't know yet if I go 12 Fighter or 18 Fighter)

It's a nice one, but it depends what you'll be getting from other classes as well & what you're after. Is there anything specific you'd like this character to do that doesn't quite mesh with your build & kensai 3?

I personally value a 6 ranger splash more than the last few fighter levels, but that's because I like having an insane number of feats & ram's might helps make up the loss of damage. A big rogue splash like Kwiz's adds a decent amount of sneak damage up close :)

(Not suggesting you do those, just IMO for examples)


Are Precise Shot and/or improved precise shot important? (If not, I'd leave Dex at 16-18 and raise Str for damage)

Improved Precise Shot is what makes ranged damage not suck (except when poking a lump of hp like a raid boss). You want this :) It pretty much turns your arrows into line attacks, hitting everything in their path.

A quick example: Kwiz soloed sins of attrition in 8 minutes earlier. She ran until she got red alert, turned around, and put on manyshot. 30 or so orthons and devils died in the next 5 seconds.

You can't do stuff like that without it :)


Is Dex really more important than Str? With a high starting Dex and all the Weapon foci, isn't it a better idea to increase damage rather than to hit?

Each 2 points of str add 1-2 dps. Each 2 points of dex adds 5% or more dps if you are missing at all - but kensai, elf racial & the focuses also give you a huge boost to your to hit with a bow.

Str also helps your melee +hit since you said you want to do that too

I went all dex with Kwiz because she was built for elite quests/epics & won't have the items or bonuses your build might. It also helps evasion :) Most people only do normals and to hit doesn't matter as much in those, your enhancement bonuses & the feats will probably be enough for ya as long as you wear a +dex item.


Which skills are the most beneficial to an Archer? UMD? Balance?

Spot. You want to see the monsters to be able to hit them :)

[karl_k0ch]

Thanks for the input.

I wouldn't be happy with a one-trick pony unless it is a very good trick, which isn't the case for ranged. I think that IC:Slash and a Weapon Spec. Slash will contribute sufficiently to deliver some melee dps. I haven't decided yet if I wanna go TWF with feats or THF sans feats.

On this particular build, I think that the Str path will offer enough to-hit bonuses via Weapon Foci and Racial Enhancements. And the +1 to hit is not always* a +5% increase in DPS, as this depends on the actual to hit-chance and even on the crit multiplier. (*read: almost never)

Regarding skills, I figured out that when I go 1 Bard, 2-7 Fighter, 8 Ranger, 9+ Figher and use a +2 Int Tome asap, I will be able to max out Spot and one Bard Skill.
Skills that will get some points at level 1 will be UMD (4), Balance (4), Bluff (4), Haggle (4), Spot (2), Tumble (1), Jump (4), Perform (3). UMD will be capped all the time, Spot from level 8 on.

Is UMD the obvious choice despite having only 8 Cha?

How many SP does an AA need to work properly? Will I use the Imue Ability during the quests frequently or is it sufficient to do so before rests and in the town?

Might one level of Wizard be the better choice, granting more SP, allowing LG alignment? The nice things about Bard are the song as a nice one or or twice per rest buff, unlocking of UMD and +2 Reflex, compared to Wiz.


=======
The follwing would even deserve a new post.

On the 2WF vs 2HF issue: Is the former really better than the latter on this particular build?
Assuming 30 Str (16 base, 5 level up, 3 fighter, 6 item) and plain +5 weapons we have the following total damages (please do correct me if I am forgetting something):

2HF has with a falchion:
2d4 +5 (10) base damage
15 Str
4 Elf
4 greater weapon specialization (3 free feats from not taking the TWF chain)
===
33 damage

TWF has with double scimiars:

main hand scimitar:
1d6 + 5 (8.5) base damage
10 Str
2 Elf
====
20.5

off-hand scimitar:
1d6+5 (8.5) base damage
5 Str
2 Elf
====
16.5
Proc Chance: 0.8
12.4

Resulting Damage:
32.9 damage

I know that these numbers will shift towards 2TWF as additional damage boosts appear (e.g. bard songs or weapon procs), as a 2HF bonus of +1 will result in a +1.8 bonus for 2WF. But the to-hit differences are huge: Since there is not much room for OTWF, double Scimis get -4/-4 where the THF gets +1 from the weapon focus. This difference allows THF even to switch on PA, giving +10 Damage. If PA is switched on for both, THF gets +10, where TWF only gets +9 on average. I don't see TWF far ahead of THF on this build.