Human Barbarian AC

[ddobard1]

Without shield, potions, and external buffs. Not a tank build or blocking build just a first line melee without best DPS (However good DPS!) and with AC.

Without Shield: AC = Base (10) + DT Leather Armor (8) + Dexterity (7) + Protection (5) + Combat Expertise (5) + Spell (4) + Greensteel Weapon Insight (4) + Epic Seal of the Earth (5) + DT Dodge Tier 3 (3) + Dodge Feat (1) + Alchemical Armor Ritual (1) + Improved Uncanny Dodge 30 Seconds (6) + Human Versatility Armor Class Boost 20 Seconds (5) = 53 + 6 + 5

With Shield: AC = Base (10) + DT Leather Armor (8) + Dexterity (7) + Protection (5) + Combat Expertise (5) + 5 Twilight Mithral Heavy Shield (7) + Greensteel Weapon Insight (4) + Epic Seal of the Earth (5) + DT Dodge Tier 3 (3) + Dodge Feat (1) + Alchemical Armor Ritual (1) + Alchemical Shield Ritual (1) + Improved Uncanny Dodge 30 Seconds (6) + Human Versatility Armor Class Boost 20 Seconds (5) = 57 + 6 + 5

Right now it is at 64 AC without shield, and 68 AC with shield.

Spell Haste (+1)
Spell Recitation (+2)
Bard Inspire Heroics (+4)
Paladin Aura of Good (+5)
Halfling Hero's Companion IV (+3)

So with these buffs i hit 64 + 15 = 79 AC without shield, or 68 + 15 = 83 AC with shield! It isn't negligible i suppose.


If i can i would improve it.

[Consumer]

Taking an already DPS nerfed class and applying AC...

You must hate Barbs

[khaldan]

ignore this post

[testing1234]

dont want to be a hater of other peoples ideas but i am.
Yuck, what are you thinking.

these days each time you upgrade your rage with a extra +1str you lose 1 AC so your rage hits for -6AC if i counted it correctly.

all equipment slot on a barb should be guards/hp/dps/saves/healing amp trying to fit in more then 1 item for AC seems to worst kind of madness to me

[hydra_ex]

Without shield, potions, and external buffs.

AC = Base (10) + DT Leather Armor (8) + Dexterity (7) + Protection (5) + Combat Expertise (5) + Spell (4) + Greensteel Weapon Insight (4) + Seal of Earth (3) + DT Tier 3 (3) + Dodge Feat (1) + Alchemical Armor Ritual (1) + Improved Uncanny Dodge 30 Seconds (6) + Human Versatility Armor Class Boost 20 Seconds (5) = 51 + 6 + 5


Sure it could be improved! If i can i would edit later.

+7 Dex. That's a 24! Assuming you start at 14, then you'll need a +6 item, a +3 tome and +1 exceptional. Good luck fitting in that. Doable, yes. Bad for DPS, yes. 22 is much more reasonable.

+5 Prot. Shield of faith mass, or another DPS loss slot.

CE. 13 Int. Not going to happen. Even with base 10 +3 tome. Even so, barbarians can't fit it in.

Sheild spell. Who's going to clicky while raged?

Seal of Earth. Why not just Barkskin? Another +2.

Human versatility: Absolute waste of AP.

Dodge on a barbarian? Waste of feat.

Also missing Paladin Aura, bard song.

Also missing rage

With a shield it can go higher.

So, revised:
AC = Base (10) + DT Leather Armor (8) + Dexterity (6) + Protection (5) + Greensteel Weapon Insight (4) + Barkskin (5) + DT Tier 3 (3) + Alchemical Armor Ritual (1) + Bard Song (4) + Paladin Aura (5) + -8* Rages + +5 Heavy Shield (7) + Defensive Fighting (2) + Improved Uncanny Dodge 30 Seconds (6)= 36Base/45 Buffed/62 Tanking (unraged)/68 Very situational

36 AC is abysmal. Even 45 is abysmal. You can't tank much with 62 AC. 68 is decent enough, I suppose. But your main numbers are still 45.

So a barbarian if geared properly can get an AC good enough - if he's shield blocking in shroud. Great.

*-2 Spell, -2 Base, -4 Power Rage

[ddobard1]

I prefer to sacrifice DPS to get AC!
When using AC i don't use Rage! I enjoy Rage with discretion not as an easy button.
I don't use Power Rage!
Human Adaptability I: Dexterity!
+5 Protection Underwater Action Ring!
Human get extra Feat, splash Fighter if needed!
Before Rage cast Shield and Expeditious Retreat, splash Arcane class if needed!
Without potions, and +3 better than +2!
Human Versatility for AC, Damage, etc. excels!
Human get extra Feat, splash Fighter if needed!
When using AC i don't use Rage or spell Rage, and i don't use Power Rage!

[ddobard1]

Instead of writing "Ignore this post.", i'd rather see written valid arguments against this suggestion!

[hydra_ex]

I prefer to sacrifice DPS to get AC!

And that's where I should be done talking to you. If you don't understand that, then there's no point arguing. Sacrificing DPS to gain a barely useful AC is meaningless. IMO, sacrificing any DPS to obtain any AC is also quite pointless in the vast majority of situations. However, I owe it to you to answer this.



When using AC i don't use Rage! I enjoy Rage with discretion not as an easy button.

Which is why I didn't include it in the tanking AC.



I don't use Power Rage!

Bad move.



Human Adaptability I: Dexterity!

Granted. +1 AC for 46. Moot. Max 69. Looking a bit better.



+5 Protection Underwater Action Ring!

I included it, but wouldn't you rather Kyosho's Ring (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Unlimited/Items/Rings/KyoshosRing.jpg) and the Encrusted Ring (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Unlimited/Items/Rings/EncrustedRing.jpg)? I would



Human get extra Feat, splash Fighter if needed!

8 Feats, 10 with fighter splash on a human
TWF/THF
ITWF/ITHF
GTWF/GTHF
PA
IC
Cleave (please say you take FB.)
Stunning Blow (If not human/without fighter stop here)
Dodge
Misc. Stuff.

Either way, that 1 AC is quite meaningless. +1 AC for 47 base. Still moot. Max 70. Congratz. You can now block very well if you're built a bit for it.



Before Rage cast Shield and Expeditious Retreat, splash Arcane class if needed!

Doesn't last long enough. You're a gimp if you splash an arcane class.



Without potions, and +3 better than +2!

Don't understand what you mean here.



Human Versatility for AC, Damage, etc. excels!

Let's say you got that 54 AC. Happy? Still stinks. Also, there's a cooldown, and other miscellaneous things which make your blocking even more situational.

So even if you gimp yourself, you're still looking at less than 55 AC. Helpful in shroud? Yes. In any quest which isn't a total pushover? Absolutely not.

[Quikster]

Instead of writing "Ignore this post.", i'd rather see written valid arguments against this suggestion!

How about your ac will be to low to be effective, and your dps will suck.

[khaldan]

Instead of writing "Ignore this post.", i'd rather see written valid arguments against this suggestion!

Ignore this post was because I screwed up on a bunch of numbers and didn't want to redo the entire thing.

[ddobard1]

Now let's calculate with external buffs, right now it is at 62 AC, and don't forget i made the build without shield, potions, and external buffs.

Ranger Barkskin (+5 - (+3) = +2)
Spell Haste (+1)
Spell Recitation (+2)
Bard Inspire Heroics (+4)
Paladin Aura of Good (+5)

So with these buffs i hit 62 + 14 = 76 AC! It isn't negligible at end game content i suppose.

May it can be improved with some Epic item, i will search later.

[hydra_ex]

Now let's calculate with external buffs, right now it is at 62 AC, and don't forget i made the build is without shield, potions, and external buffs.

Ranger Barkskin (+5 - (+3) = +2)
Spell Haste (+1)
Spell Recitation (+2)
Bard Inspire Heroics (+4)
Paladin Aura of Good (+5)

So with these buffs i hit 62 + 14 = 76 AC! It isn't negligible at end game content i suppose.

May it can be improved with some Epic item, i will search later.

Already calculated in bard and paladin. Forgot your +2 from haste and recitation.

So 52 standing. Point remains. Good for shroud, bad for anything else.

And you had a decent tanking AC before. That's not the point.

Also, learn to read. I see a reason to try to convince an intelligent person. I don't see a reason who fails to accurately read the entirety of someone's post before posting.

And one last thing: Generally, the one person arguing against the rest is wrong. One in a million he's right. And trust me, with practical breakdowns and rationale's going one way, but not really any new arguments coming from the other, that one guy is definitely wrong.

[Quikster]

Already calculated in bard and paladin. Forgot your +2 from haste and recitation.

So 52 standing. Point remains. Good for shroud, bad for anything else.

And you had a decent tanking AC before. That's not the point.

Also, learn to read. I see a reason to try to convince an intelligent person. I don't see a reason who fails to accurately read the entirety of someone's post before posting.

And one last thing: Generally, the one person arguing against the rest is wrong. One in a million he's right. And trust me, with practical breakdowns and rationale's going one way, but not really any new arguments coming from the other, that one guy is definitely wrong.

Yeah i guess 52 is average for weak shroud trash. If you want to totally gimp your barb to have average ac against craptastic mobs, sure go for it.

[ddobard1]

I am not getting DPS to 50%. 76 AC is meaningful everywhere! Do not be dogmatic in D&D, plz!
There are happenings for AC and happenings for Rage. Depends. This isn't a tanking build, it doesn't use Shield!
Power Rage is a tiny increment on DPS, not a good move.
I like +5 Protection Underwater Action Ring!
+76 AC without shield, this isn't for blocking as i already said!
It isn't about lasting, it is about useful at certain times. One arcane caster level isn't compromising. One level!
Seal of Earth = +3, Potion = +2. By the way you give me an idea about Seal of Earth Epic. I will check!
It isn't 55 AC, it is 62 AC without buffs! 76 AC with buffs!

Nice sentences are always nice to read! I prefer my numbers!

I only read what you posted.

[hydra_ex]

Nice sentences are always nice to read! I prefer my numbers...


...which are both deluded and wrong. I'm sorry, even being very generous, I can't get over 60 standing.

But hey, do what you want. If you're on Thelanis, you wouldn't make it into my groups.

[ddobard1]

It isn't 52 AC, it is 63 AC. Check my numbers!
Updated with Epic Seal of the Earth. (+1)
Fortunately i ain't on Thelanis.

[Khanyth]

I respect what you are saying and what you are trying to do, DDObard1.

I won't speak for other players on other servers (I've only played on Orien) but:

when I have joined pugs with my barb, the other members of the pug had the expectation that they were getting a character who would kill fast and quickly. That's what barbs do. That's what barbs are expected to do. That is the expectation of the class. I've seen barbs be kicked out of groups for not killing fast enough.

If you grouped with a cleric, would you expect to be healed?
Would you group with a cleric who didn't want to heal?

Play your character however you wish, but be prepared for a backlash. People expect barbs to be killing machine/mana sponges. If they want a melee with AC, they'll get a pali or a fighter. People expect barbs to be low AC, high DPS.

My 2 cents.

[Quikster]

It isn't 52 AC, it is 63 AC. Check my numbers!
Updated with Epic Seal of the Earth. (+1)
Fortunately i ain't on Thelanis.

Youre numbers are bogus. Your ac will be craptastic. But hey, what do I know, Ive only had 6 or 7 melee that can reach 80 + ac and 1 over 100. Youre right, roll it up, have fun.

[ddobard1]

Khanyth when i put a LFM, i don't have pre-defined expectations about any Character. That's more fun! A Battle Cleric, a DPS Paladin, a Ranged Fighter, a Caster Melee, it's fine! They can all be great, and make smooth runs.
I prefer to get out of parties who can't accept alternative builds. 63 AC, 77 AC buffed without Shield is acceptable.
I don't expect nothing from no one a priori, the Cleric may prefer to nuke! Need healings, cast Expeditious Retreat, Sprint Boost, Invisible potion and try to loose aggro, don't expect healing, only when unconcious i expect if anyone can.

[khaldan]

It's not that AC is bad(it is in most cases, but let's say it's alright to have AC for now), it's that you could do it so much better if you were a different build. Why play a class whose main ability reduces AC for an AC build?

[ddobard1]

Don't use words, use numbers instead. This isn't the AC guy, it is a melee first line with lots of HP, at least good DPS and 77 AC. (Didn't calculate HPs and DPS, not my purpose here.) Not far, far away from +80 AC.

[khaldan]

You won't have as much hp as any other barb, since you don't have rage or as many toughnesses.

You won't have even close to good dps, since barb dps revolves around frenzy/death frenzy/rage.

You won't have as good an AC as any other intimitank/dex based AC build, and won't have the intimidate to use it even if you did.

Why build this when you could build something better?

[ddobard1]

My idea is not to be perma Raged. Have the versatility: to Rage or not to Rage! A driven Human Barbarian but also a cautious one.

[khaldan]

So you won't have even close to the dps of any other barb, who aren't exactly the hottest dps around anymore. Not sure how you're not seeing this.

[Sweyn]

This build has gimp written all over it. Where do you plan on being effective with this? I would never take a build like this into

Any epic quests
Dragon runs
Epic DQ runs
Shroud runs
VoD runs
Tod runs
Hell, just about anything endgame a build like this would not be welcome in my groups

All this character will be is a waste of a party slot... i guess you could tank the reaver without being hit :rolleyes:

[ddobard1]

HP (Without Rage.) = 236 + 23 (Toughness.) + 10 + 30 + 40 (Barbarian Toughness.) + 45 + 30 (Racial Toughness.) + 20 (Minos Toughness.) + 280 + 20 = 734. 77 AC. (Without Rage.)

This isn't a blocking, tanking, intimidating, or whatever, it's a first line melee 734 HP (Not raged or buffed.), 77 AC (63 AC not buffed.) and with good DPS. (No numbers here.)

[khaldan]

HP (Without Rage.) = 236 + 23 (Toughness.) + 10 + 30 + 40 (Barbarian Toughness.) + 45 + 30 (Racial Toughness.) + 20 (Minos Toughness.) + 280 + 20 = 734. 77 AC. (Without Rage.)

This isn't a blocking, tanking, intimidating, or whatever, it's a first line melee 734 HP (Not raged or buffed.), 77 AC (63 AC not buffed.) and with good DPS. (No numbers here.)

Most barbs hit 900-1000 hp.

As for dps, you aren't using rage/death frenzy/frenzy, so that's a ton of damage lost, on top of losing the fun that is a x5 multiplier.

[ddobard1]

I only speak about numbers: 63 AC and 77AC end game buffed. 734 HP not Raged or buffed. Too lazy to calculate DPS, but i predict 80% of max Barbarian DPS. May be calculations later. IT seems a fine first line melee.

[ddobard1]

1000 HP with Rages and buffs! I said 734 HP without Rage and buffs! With Rages, and buffs i will get over 900 HP. I didn't say i wouldn't Rage. I said i Rage when i think it is necessary.

[khaldan]

I only speak about numbers: 63 AC and 77AC end game buffed. 734 HP not Raged or buffed. Too lazy to calculate DPS, but i predict 80% of max Barbarian DPS. May be calculations later. IT seems a fine first line melee.

You aren't keeping 63 AC up full time, nor are you keeping 77 AC up full time. You aren't raging, so that alone trashes your dps. 734 hp is decent, but when you waste feats on things like dodge, it could be better.

But again, I ask you, why the focus on barbarian AC when you could do fighter AC, get a lot higher in AC, and do more damage?

[khaldan]

1000 HP with Rages and buffs! I said 734 HP without Rage and buffs! With Rages, and buffs i will get over 900 HP. I didn't say i wouldn't Rage. I said i Rage when i think it is necessary.

Double post, but those two should probably be highlighted. Rage only gets you another 100 hp, not 270.

[ddobard1]

63 AC when needed, Rage when i want, 77 AC with external buffs. Fighter with + AC than me worst DPS and less HP.
80 (Greater Rage + Hardy Rage) + 20 (Spell Rage.) + 80 (Arcane Caster, Bard, Cleric/FS, Paladin Buffs.) = 180. 734 + 180 = 914 HP > 900 HP.

[khaldan]

... You're counting temporary hp in a hp calculation?

Hell, I think I can stop here. You're either an elaborate troll, or someone who really doesn't understand the game.

[ddobard1]

No you write like a troll! And express total lack of rules connaissance!

[Khanyth]

No you write like a troll! And express total lack of rules connaissance!

I've never had the chance to do this before.... I'm kinda excited.

Here goes:

Hi. Welcome.

[khaldan]

I've never had the chance to do this before.... I'm kinda excited.

Here goes:

Hi. Welcome.

You added punctuation! Gasp!

[ddobard1]

Shut up!

You not welcome! Anytime! Anywhere!

[NaturalHazard]

I respect what you are saying and what you are trying to do, DDObard1.

I won't speak for other players on other servers (I've only played on Orien) but:

when I have joined pugs with my barb, the other members of the pug had the expectation that they were getting a character who would kill fast and quickly. That's what barbs do. That's what barbs are expected to do. That is the expectation of the class. I've seen barbs be kicked out of groups for not killing fast enough.

If you grouped with a cleric, would you expect to be healed?
Would you group with a cleric who didn't want to heal?

Play your character however you wish, but be prepared for a backlash. People expect barbs to be killing machine/mana sponges. If they want a melee with AC, they'll get a pali or a fighter. People expect barbs to be low AC, high DPS.

My 2 cents.

How about a ranger exploiter type? i mean for a melee with decent ac?

[ddobard1]

I choose Barbarian.

[Asketes]

why not just choose a fighter?

Mine hit excellent DPS wielding two khopesh and a 76 ac (pure lvl 20 fighter)

[ddobard1]

Because i am choosing! Here forever looking for 92 AC! (Numbers!) I already got past 76 AC, 77 AC right now. Don't go with two weapons. C'est la vie!

[khaldan]

Because i am choosing! Here forever looking for 92 AC! (Numbers!) I already got past 76 AC, 77 AC right now.

77 AC with 66% uptime for 3 minutes is not sustainable. Just sayin.

And by the way...

Hi Welcome

[ddobard1]

77 AC available for some seconds and permanent 63 AC at end game content is nice.

Welcome?! Don't assume i will go where you are! (Eternal Resistance!)

[khaldan]

Permanent 66 AC is worse than displacement at end game. Might be helpful to learn how AC works in endgame before talking about it in endgame.

[Asketes]

77 AC available for some seconds and permanent 66 AC at end game content is nice.



yeah, they'll only hit you on a 2!

think about all the 1's that get rolled. Super AC right?

[Asketes]

Because i am choosing! Here forever looking for 92 AC! (Numbers!) I already got past 76 AC, 77 AC right now. Don't go with two weapons. C'est la vie!


what's the point of choosing if you're choosing poorly? There is zero synergy between barbarian and AC.

Why are you trying to get a hummer to run like a prius?

[khaldan]

Why are you trying to get a hummer to run like a prius?

Because if it ever worked, it would be the most awesome car ever!

[ddobard1]

For now i enjoy MY CHOICE, 63 AC and temporarily 77 AC. +700 HP:+900 HP Raged and buffed with temporary points. Estimate: 80% DPS. I enjoy to have AC!

[khaldan]

For now i enjoy MY CHOICE, 66 AC and temporarily 77 AC. +700 HP:+900 HP Raged and buffed with temporary points. Estimate: 80% DPS. I enjoy to have AC!

PA and no rage means 50% of dps, best case.

[KillEveryone]

I don't really understand this.

Barbarians rage. That is what they do. They add STR with that rage. They have enhancements that add to the STR when they rage.

They add CON when they rage. They have enhancements to add to the CON whey they rage.

They have enhancements that add damage to PA. They need a high STR to offset any penalties to PA because they can get more damage from enhancements to PA that also add a penalty to hit.

They Frenzy. They Death Frenzy. They sacrifice HP on hits to do more damage. They have a huge amount of HP to be able to sacrifice HP to do more damage.

Their AC goes down when they Rage.

Barbarians rage.

That is what they do.

I can understand odd classes, ran with people that made those odd classes work.

Even still, you are using a boost for AC and that boost only lasts 20 seconds. In the time it takes to cool down, you need to be able to DPS the critter before it DPS's you and you are giving up DPS for AC.

[ddobard1]

I wrote before 52 AC permanent + 6 AC 30 Seconds + 5 AC 20 Seconds + 14 AC buffed, this not raging. Suppose i lost bonus AC as time passes. Two options: i can Rage or i can retreat with Sprint Boost, Expeditious Retreat and Invisibility potion. I will take what i think it will be the best option at the moment.

[Quikster]

HP (Without Rage.) = 236 + 23 (Toughness.) + 10 + 30 + 40 (Barbarian Toughness.) + 45 + 30 (Racial Toughness.) + 20 (Minos Toughness.) + 280 + 20 = 734. 77 AC. (Without Rage.)

This isn't a blocking, tanking, intimidating, or whatever, it's a first line melee 734 HP (Not raged or buffed.), 77 AC (63 AC not buffed.) and with good DPS. (No numbers here.)

What the heck does that even mean???

240 lvl 20 barb
160 con (26 con)
20 ddo
10 aa favor
22 toughness
40 enhancements
30 racial enhancements
30 gfl
45 shroud item
20 toughness item
___________________
617



Without shield, potions, and external buffs. Not a tank build or blocking build just a first line melee without best DPS (However good DPS!) and with AC.

AC = Base (10) + DT Leather Armor (8) + Dexterity (7) + Protection (5) + Combat Expertise (5) + Spell (4) + Greensteel Weapon Insight (4) + Epic Seal of the Earth (4) + DT Dodge Tier 3 (3) + Dodge Feat (1) + Alchemical Armor Ritual (1) + Improved Uncanny Dodge 30 Seconds (6) + Human Versatility Armor Class Boost 20 Seconds (5) = 52 + 6 + 5

Now let's calculate with external buffs, right now it is at 63 AC, and don't forget i made the build without shield, potions, and external buffs.

Ranger Barkskin (+5 - (+3) = +2)
Spell Haste (+1)
Spell Recitation (+2)
Bard Inspire Heroics (+4)
Paladin Aura of Good (+5)

So with these buffs i hit 63 + 14 = 77 AC! It isn't negligible at end game content i suppose.


Sure it could be improved! If i can i would edit later.

AC

10 base
8 dt leather
7 dex (16 starting? or are you dedicating item slots to exceptional dex as well?)
5 protection
4 insight
5 natural (epic seal of the earth??? Really???)
3 dodge
1 ritual
5 combat expertise (min of 9 int, more likely 11 or 12 int)
1 Dodge
_________________
49 unbuffed

4 shield spell
1 haste
_________________
54 self buffed

2 recitation (if they ever fix it, or you can scroll it if you take umd)
________________

56 party buffed. This is where your ac will be most of the time. Counting boosts, uncanny dodges etc, is not an ac calculation. Its a Trixxie. It doesnt count in real game play. It may be cool for screen shots and oh shoot moments, or running through traps, but its not ac.

You can buff it, if you can find someone willing to party with you, and keep you buffed.

4 bard song
6 paly (up to 6 more likely less)

66 ac. This is way mediocre ac, and is not worth giving up much dps.

Lets look at the rest of your stats.

We already allocated 16 starting dex and con, as well as 11 starting int (assuming +2 tomes in all three. Thats 23 build points. So 9 left unless your crazy enough to do this on a tr. Thats a 15 starting str and 1 point left over.

So str will go as follows.

15 starting
2 tome
5 levels
7 item (epic)
3 exceptional (unless you have another ring you want to wear)
_____________
32 strength.

Thats pathetic and will not get you good dps.

It can buff a bit.

+2 Yugo pot

34. You said no power rage right? So regular rage is what +8 for 20 barb? Add the capstone and your at what 44 str? I dont have a 20 barb, so not sure what the capstone is, maybe you get 46.

Feats.

You get 8 as a human barb. 3 are already accounted for.

Dodge
CE
Toughness

The following is what most barbs choose when going human.

thf/twf
ithf/itwf
gthf/gtwf
Toughness
Power Attack
Cleave
Improved crit
Stunning blow/khopesh

I assume you would go twf with such a high starting dex. The twf line is a must. As is power attack, cleave, and improved crit.

Thats 6 feats, and you only have room for 5. So which do you drop? You could drop improved crit, and then only use min II. But that lowers your dps quite a bit in many situations. You could drop gtwf or ic, once again drops your dps. Or cleave or power attack, but that drops your dps a ton. No matter what feat you drop, you are already way behind the dps barb, and running the other way. Factor in your lower str/rage issues and pretty soon you are having trouble hitting things on harder difficulties. (actually you already are having problems hitting things :) )


As I said. Craptastic dps, with very mediocre ac. Have fun :)

[Quikster]

I wrote before 52 AC permanent + 6 AC 30 Seconds + 5 AC 20 Seconds + 14 AC buffed, this not raging. Suppose i lost bonus AC as time passes. Two options: i can Rage or i can retreat with Sprint Boost, Expeditious Retreat and Invisibility potion. I will take what i think it will be the best option at the moment.

How much ac does running away add??


Please post your server and alt name. Consider it a public service announcement.

[KillEveryone]

I wrote before 52 AC permanent + 6 AC 30 Seconds + 5 AC 20 Seconds + 14 AC buffed, this not raging. Suppose i lost bonus AC as time passes. Two options: i can Rage or i can retreat with Sprint Boost, Expeditious Retreat and Invisibility potion. I will take what i think it will be the best option at the moment.

Invisibility will still get you hit and you don't always reliably loose critters. I have invisibility on all my casters that can cast it and the critters will still follow you and will wack on you where they think you are. I think they are using their listen check.

Sprint boost can probably help.

Can't use clickies when raged so you will probably have to rely more on that sprint boost and will probably want more than just 1 enhancement into that so you are taking away AP from other potential DPS enhancements.

Still, why give up enhanceing a classes main feature? It isn't like a barbarian has plenty of feats to use or enhancements that can benefit.

[ddobard1]

232 lvl 19 barb/ 1 Wiz or Sorc
260 con (36 = 14 + 6 + 4 + 3 + 1 + 3 + 5 con)
20 ddo
10 aa favor
23 toughness
40 enhancements
30 racial enhancements
30 gfl
45 shroud item
20 toughness item
___________________
710

Stats: 14/14/14/14/14/10

AC

10 base
8 dt leather
7 dex (14 starting! 14 + 6 + 3 + 1)
5 protection
4 insight
4 natural (epic seal of the earth? Really!)
3 dodge
1 ritual
5 combat expertise (14 int here)
1 Dodge
4 shield spell (1 Wiz or Sorc here! And Expeditious retreat too!)
_________________
52 unbuffed


1 haste
2 recitation
________________

55 party buffed


You can buff it, if you can find someone willing to party with you, and keep you buffed.

4 bard song
5 paly aura
+1 Ranger Barkskin

65 ac

+6 AC Uncanny 5 x 30 Seconds
+5 AC AC Boost 5 x 20 Seconds

So str will go as follows.

14 starting
4 tome
6 item
_____________
24 strength

+6 rage
+2 rage
+Frenzied Rage
+Madstone


Two Handed Fighting here!

Feats.

You get 8 as a human barb. 18 Barb/1 Fighter/1 Wiz

Dodge
CE
Toughness
thf
ithf
gthf
Power Attack
Cleave
Improved crit
Extend


Last note: this isn't the build i would make, i take only the abilities allocation, HP and the AC.

[khaldan]

You owe me a new keyboard of making me spew pepsi all over it when I saw 18/1/1 barb/fighter/wiz.

Oh god, this is just so terrible to watch. 14 wisdom, 14 int, just wow

[KillEveryone]

Wiz?

1 Level?

On a Melee?

You really expect that to actually be useful? You can't cast if you are raged.

Why not clickies? You will get the same usefulness.

Really?

Seriously?

[KillEveryone]

Come on now...you are drunk or something right?

Are you really serious?

[Quikster]

232 lvl 19 barb/ 1 Wiz or Sorc
260 con (36 = 14 + 6 + 4 + 3 + 1 + 3 + 5 con)
20 ddo
10 aa favor
23 toughness
40 enhancements
30 racial enhancements
30 gfl
45 shroud item
20 toughness item
___________________
710

Stats: 14/14/14/14/14/10

AC

10 base
8 dt leather
7 dex (14 starting! 14 + 6 + 3 + 1)
5 protection
4 insight
4 natural (epic seal of the earth? Really!)
3 dodge
1 ritual
5 combat expertise (14 int here)
1 Dodge
4 shield spell (1 Wiz or Sorc here! And Expeditious retreat too!)
_________________
52 unbuffed


1 haste
2 recitation
________________

55 party buffed


You can buff it, if you can find someone willing to party with you, and keep you buffed.

4 bard song
5 paly aura
+1 Ranger Barkskin

65 ac

+6 AC Uncanny 5 x 30 Seconds
+5 AC AC Boost 5 x 20 Seconds

So str will go as follows.

14 starting
4 tome
6 item
_____________
24 strength

+6 rage
+2 rage
+Frenzied Rage
+Madstone


Two Handed Fighting here!

Feats.

You get 8 as a human barb. 18 Barb/1 Fighter/1 Wiz

Dodge
CE
Toughness
thf
ithf
gthf
Power Attack
Cleave
Improved crit
Extend


Last note: this isn't the build i would make, i take only the abilities allocation, HP and the AC.

Break down your stats better if you want me to flame you. I can tell what your getting from where.

I though they upgraded epic seal to +5

You can count boosts as ac if your a paper junkie, but if your actually going to play the game, boosts dont count as ac sorry trixxie.

Youre str is even worse than expected (though I knew it would be) You wont be able to hit the broadside of a barn you know.

Good luck with this complete and total gimp. When you get all your tomes and epic items, make sure to come back and tell us how it does. Make sure to bring testimonials though cuz I wont believe you :)

Try playing the game a bit as well, it might help you make some build decisions.

[ddobard1]

I always watch drunk people blame others for being drunk!

I can use Boosts to AC, after boosts i assess the situation, can i go through with rage or retreat with Expeditious Retreat, Sprint Boost and Invisibility potion! It's all about assessment.

Don't need testimonials, it's well kept on my mind. :)

Your Characters may be gimp this one isn't!

[khaldan]

I always watch drunk people blame others for being drunk!

I can use Boosts to AC, after boosts i assess the situation, can i go through with rage or retreat with Expeditious Retreat, Sprint Boost and Invisibility potion! It's all about assessment.

Don't need testimonials, it's well kept on my mind. :)

Your Characters may be gimp this one isn't!

'after boosts'? How is 'Your AC isn't high enough to be a useful defensive ability even during the small amount of boosted uptime' so hard to get?

[KillEveryone]

I always watch drunk people blame others for being drunk!

I can use Boosts to AC, after boosts i assess the situation, can i go through with rage or retreat with Expeditious Retreat, Sprint Boost and Invisibility potion! It's all about assessment.

Yes you can assess the situation after the boost, espically if the shrine is a bit of a distance you will have plenty of time to think about things.



Your Characters may be gimp this one isn't!

My gimps are not a gimppy as this train wreck comming down the tracks.

[Nich]

This build has gimp written all over it. All this character will be is a waste of a party slot...

So, a high hp barbarian, with high strength, able to switch between dps & tanking mode depending on the situation, is a waste of space for you? I know it is difficult for some, but try to be less narrow minded, barbarians can, like few others classes, hit high AC, high UMD, high DPS, without even splashing rogue/fighter/whatever.

Since it seems you dont know the class well, please have a look at this particular thread: http://community.codemasters.com/forum/classes-general-discussion-399/341276-poll-ultimate-barbarian.html

You will see that although the builds are lvl16, they give you a clear picture of what barbarians can be with some dedication.

[khaldan]

So, a high hp barbarian, with high strenght, able to switch between dps & tanking mode depending on the situation, is a waste of space for you? I know it is difficult for some, but try to be less narrow minded, barbarians can, like few others classes, hit high AC, high UMD, high DPS, without even splashing rogue/fighter/whatever.

This build does none of this.

As for the high str, I find this exceptionally funny, as my halfling rogue has a higher str than this barbarian.

[Nich]

This build does none of this.

As for the high str, I find this exceptionally funny, as my halfling rogue has a higher str than this barbarian.

Indeed the OP didn't really post a (good) build, and some of the advices offered to him were good. However some stated that he can't build the kind of barbarian he wants without being a piker somehow. Thus I pointed OP & those who don't know what is doable or not barbarian's build wise to some templates (link in previous post).

[khaldan]

Indeed the OP didn't really post a (good) build, and some of the advices offered to him were good. However some stated that he can't build the kind of barbarian he wants without being a piker somehow. Thus I pointed OP & those who don't know what is doable or not barbarian's build wise to some templates (link in previous post).

It's not about being able to build a high dex barb, it's about why on earth you would want to. Those builds were posted from when the cap was 16, where no PrEs existed and madstone boots were the best dps increase ever made.

What with all the fighter/paladin PrEs focussed around being an AC tank, the idea of making a barbarian, a low AC class, into a high AC class just seems useless.

[KillEveryone]

The wizard splash isn't helping things.

[Nich]

What with all the fighter/paladin PrEs focussed around being an AC tank, the idea of making a barbarian, a low AC class, into a high AC class just seems useless.

Well, it adds versatility to your character. If you re the kind of player that just takes the 5/11 first persons who apply to your lfm, its good to be able to fill 2 roles.

To build a barbarian for AC is bad, I agree. To get the items needed to make your AC viable if needed is a smart move in my book.

[khaldan]

Well, it adds versatility to your character. If you re the kind of player that just takes the 5/11 first persons who apply to your lfm, its good to be able to fill 2 roles.

To build a barbarian for AC is bad, I agree. To get the items needed to make your AC viable if needed is a smart move in my book.

Displace/stoneskin/jump are all available on Shroud clickies and add a lot more survivability than a mid 70s AC.

[r3dl4nce]

Barbarian are TANKS. They simply tanks on HP instead of tanking on AC. Their survivabilty depends on having a HUGE dps and a HUGE amount of HP, giving time to healers to heal them. So they do dps and tank (via HP). Why put in AC? Moreover, if you gimp a lot your dps to go AC route, you will neven need your AC, because every well build dps will take the aggro from you. No aggro from mob = no need for ac.

[Nich]

Displace/stoneskin/jump are all available on Shroud clickies and add a lot more survivability than a mid 70s AC.

Well, it's added to your AC, just another part of your survivability.

As I said, the "classic" and usual way to build a barb is indeed to prioritize (spelling?) hp & dps. However, given you have the will & time (it requires quite some grinding), it is doable to add another utility to your barb, such as having a decent AC, which can prove to make the difference in some situations.

In the end, it s all about playing a char that provide an enjoybale gameplay for you, and to still contribute to the party you are in. The game is not that hard that you need to min/max absolutely or you cant complete a raid/quest.

[r3dl4nce]

As I said, the "classic" and usual way to build a barb is indeed to prioritize (spelling?) hp & dps. However, given you have the will & time (it requires quite some grinding), it is doable to add another utility to your barb, such as having a decent AC, which can prove to make the difference in some situations.


Ok, as you said, "ADD".
So you must keep:
- high dps
- high hp
and ADD
- useful AC.

So max STR, max CON, rest in DEX. Power Attack and enhancements, Power Rage (it lowers AC), frenzy berserk (so you need Cleave), 3xITHF, Toughness. DPS sets from ToD.

Can you explain WHERE can you fit stat and items to ADD ac ?

[Nich]

Can you explain WHERE can you fit stat and items to ADD ac ?

Trying to, but seems I was wrong heh.

[hecate355]

lots of good points against this gimpage have already been said, if you count 2 different short time boost plus shield clicky reasonable ac, then sorry no comments, by the time you finish boosting and self buffing, mobs are already dead

another side of your ac consists of assumptions, assuming you have every single endgame item that is counted into that ac, epics, tier3 shroud items(all those occupy inventory slots); another side of assumptions are party member buffs, some of em being spells that are broken and hardly used.

there isnt always paladin with max ac aura around you, nor do you all the time have bard with you to sing ya ac

90% of your playtime you dont even break 60 ac line, and im being generous, thats when you wield insight +4 ac weapon, where does the dps come from with that weapon?

not to bash you or anything, if your ac without short boosts is acceptable to you and if you are willing to work hard for half a year or more to get that kind of gear go for it, your dps however will be junk.

[ragwa1]

I think Ddobard is funny! Completely wrong but funny, none the less.

Definitly a good read.

[ddobard1]

Barbarian 18/Fighter 1/Wizard 1 first line melee two handed fighting, +700 HP not raged and not buffed, 52 AC not buffed and not Raged, +14 AC from external buffs + Improved Uncanny Dodge 30 Seconds (6) + Human Versatility Armor Class Boost 20 Seconds (5). Didn´t calculate DPS, but estimate 80% DPS. Spells Shield, Expeditious Retreat, Protection From Evil. Human initial abilities (32 pt) 14/14/14/14/14/10.
Some say it's gimp. Doesn't matter to me. I like the Character using AC. (Max 76 AC during 5 x 30 seconds.)
Feats (10): Dodge, CE, Toughness, thf, ithf, gthf, Power Attack, Cleave, Improved crit, Extend.

[r3dl4nce]

Human initial abilities (32 pt) 14/14/14/14/14/10.14 STR on a barbarian. and 14 wisdom... why 14 wisdom? and why 14 int when you only need 11+2tome to get CE? Sorry, you don't know anything about good character builds.



Some say it's gimp.Yes, it is, you should start taking your wis and cha to 8, lowering int to 11 +2 tome to get CE, raising you STR and con with left points. Removing wizard level, you could go 18barb/2fighter. Stats will be: STR 17 / DEX 14 / CON 16 / INT 11 / WIS and CHA 8.
Feats (7+1human+2fighter) will be:
- Toughness x 2
- THF/ITHF/GTHF (GTHF as of now is nearly useless so you could even skip it and put another toughness)
- Power Attack
- Cleave
- Improved Critical slash
- Dodge
- Combat expertise

Now you have the base to think a good build. Start from this stats and feats, and try to fit in the gear slots items to get AC-mode (without lowering too much dps) and items to get max dps mode, you will have to do a lot of item switch, 2 dragontouch (one with guards for max dps and one with protection+5 and insight+4 ac) but you could do it.

[Nich]

Barbarian 18/Fighter 1/Wizard 1 first line melee two handed fighting, +700 HP not raged and not buffed, 52 AC not buffed and not Raged, +14 AC from external buffs + Improved Uncanny Dodge 30 Seconds (6) + Human Versatility Armor Class Boost 20 Seconds (5). Didn´t calculate DPS, but estimate 80% DPS. Spells Shield, Expeditious Retreat, Protection From Evil. Human initial abilities (32 pt) 14/14/14/14/14/10.
Some say it's gimp. Doesn't matter to me. I like the Character using AC. (Max 76 AC during 5 x 30 seconds.)
Feats (10): Dodge, CE, Toughness, thf, ithf, gthf, Power Attack, Cleave, Improved crit, Extend.

spell shield from 1lvl of wiz is useless, buff UMD and use a 10min wand.

the starting stats from the poster above are a good base to build upon.

[ddobard1]

Ty for the feedback, but i like AC as it is. As said before this isn't my build, only using this to speak about AC in Barbarian.
I prefer 1 Caster level to get also Expeditious Retreat, can use it at any moment in an emergency with Sprint Boost and an Invisibility potion.

[r3dl4nce]

Ty for the feedback, but i like AC as it is. As said before this isn't my build, only using this to speak about AC in Barbarian.Ok you like playing gimps then. Happy rerolling.


I prefer 1 Caster level to get also Expeditious Retreat, can use it at any moment in an emergency with Sprint Boost and an Invisibility potion.
Expeditious retreat clickie

[Quikster]

Well, it's added to your AC, just another part of your survivability.

As I said, the "classic" and usual way to build a barb is indeed to prioritize (spelling?) hp & dps. However, given you have the will & time (it requires quite some grinding), it is doable to add another utility to your barb, such as having a decent AC, which can prove to make the difference in some situations.

In the end, it s all about playing a char that provide an enjoybale gameplay for you, and to still contribute to the party you are in. The game is not that hard that you need to min/max absolutely or you cant complete a raid/quest.

Ac is a min or max stat. Sorry to break it to ya. If you dont fit into the d20 range that ac needs to be helpfully, its absolutely worthless.

Sure you could have decent ac while favor running, but who needs decent ac while favor running, and why would you completely gimp your dps for it?

Yes its all about enjoyable game play. And I guarantee most people will not enjoy playing with this build. If the OP wants to build it, thats fine, but for you to sit here and tell him its viable, is wrong. Its not anywhere close to viable.

This build will not have anywhere close to the stats its claiming, except maybe the str. Which by admission is very very low. He will have difficulty hitting decent ac mobs, and forget high ac mobs.

Anyone who thinks that 20/30 second boost count as primary stats (ie ac) hasnt played ddo very long and hasnt played at end game.

[Khanyth]

You added punctuation! Gasp!

Yea... I felt that it was necessary and added a bit of flavour to these events.

Which, by the way, are simply smashing!!!!! Especially the 1 wizard level... I really felt we took a great turn there!

[grodon9999]

First thing I need to say is your are welcome to play whatever you want. Maybe you'll strike gold and come up with some kind of odd-ball combo of gear/build that'll be awesome.

I just have to say that on paper- this doesn't look like it'll be that hot. An Exploiter Ranger will beat this in both AC and DPS. There are MANY fighter combos that will do this as well, my 12/6/2 "Dorfster" can hit a 70 AC with Power-attack on while TWFing, the only DPS sacrifice I'm making on him is a starting STR of 16 instead of 18 (and a ton of gear).

66 AC and non-epic endgame is okay, it'll give you decent Orthon-resistance in normal/hard Amrath. Bosses will hit you every shot and this won't hold out in Epic at all. I can break 80 on my Exploiter and in Epics I don't even try for AC at all as the name of the game there is aggro control and don't get attacked.

Somebody put it best regarding synergy, the splashes and gear that'll get you good AC just don't work with barbs. You really are shoving a square-peg in a round-hole.

[ddobard1]

Even if your Exploiter was better i wouldn't play him prefer Barbarian over Ranger. There are many variables here, not only AC and DPS, like HP.

[Visty]

if you post a gimped build on the forums, you will be shot down

you can play whatever you want but dont come to the forums and defend your mistakes

and the exploiter will have more hp too prolly (or at least around the same)

[ddobard1]

I ain't advocating this build, i wouldn't roll it. I would go for the AC, Abilities and HP here.
Only presenting a Barbarian build with decent AC. I would emulate the AC if i rolled a Character.

[Sweyn]

if you post a gimped build on the forums, you will be shot down

you can play whatever you want but dont come to the forums and defend your mistakes

and the exploiter will have more hp too prolly (or at least around the same)

Yup, the Exploiter will have more DPS, more AC, and about the same HP. My exploiter can break 80 AC, and can sustain a 655 HP while at 50-52 STR.

[r3dl4nce]

I ain't advocating this build, i wouldn't roll it. I would go for the AC, Abilities and HP here.
Only presenting a Barbarian build with decent AC. I would emulate the AC if i rolled a Character.

I put in a previous post the starting stats to think about a barbarian with a decent (not epic) ac without losing dps or hp.
With your posted stats and ideas you won't have Ac, you won't have HP, you won't have DPS.
You will have problems even reaching level 12...
Go play, and play solo. No party should have the burden to have you in a spot, that will be the worst wasted spot.

[Visty]

I ain't advocating this build, i wouldn't roll it. I would go for the AC, Abilities and HP here.
Only presenting a Barbarian build with decent AC. I would emulate the AC if i rolled a Character.

if you wouldnt roll it, why post it?

its not even something useful infomation in this thread, that at least would be a reason for it

and barbs could reach 70+ ac at lvl16, its not even anything new

[davidcampa]

Youre numbers are bogus. Your ac will be craptastic. But hey, what do I know, Ive only had 6 or 7 melee that can reach 80 + ac and 1 over 100. Youre right, roll it up, have fun.


It would be nice for once to see a screenshot instead of peeps throwing numbers out there they make up.

I looked at your toons you in no way have 6 or 7 (YOU DONT KNOW??) toons that reach 80 + AC

Please show a quick screen shot of one Toon showing the 100 AC, Ya Did not think so, throwing numbers in the forums is quite differant than doing it.

My 2 cents

Trixxie of thelanis

Oh BTW in an earlier post in this thread you said boosts and temp buffs do not count as AC so I am wondering if you are Quoting that in your phoney Paper AC as well. Hmmmm

[khaldan]

It would be nice for once to see a screenshot instead of peeps throwing numbers out there they make up.

I looked at your toons you in no way have 6 or 7 (DONT KNOW??) toons that reach 80 + AC

Please show a quick screen shot of one Toon showing the 100 AC, Ya Did not think so, throwing numbers in the forums is quite differant than doing it.

My 2 cents

Trixxie of thelanis

This coming from the person who Lrs the same character over and over for random screenies, saying that someone else can't LR a character away from high AC.

That and the word 'had' does not mean 'have'.

[kernal42]

I ain't advocating this build, i wouldn't roll it. I would go for the AC, Abilities and HP here.
Only presenting a Barbarian build with decent AC. I would emulate the AC if i rolled a Character.

That's for the best; as far as I could tell, your barb started with 14 str and put stat points into con to pass 700 hp. This means my wizard has higher str than your barb.

.......

Probably has higher strength even when you rage, if you're not taking Power Rage.

In the interest of diverting the current bout of flame and resuming a potentially useful discussion, post a real build. We all know how to gimp DPS for high AC and how to dump str for con to hit high hp. These don't demonstrate anything interesting at all.

So come up with a real build; if you can't, it might be because the previous posters are right and there's no synergy between barb and AC. If you can, it'll be interesting to see, and contribute meaningfully.

Cheers,
Kernal

[davidcampa]

This coming from the person who Lrs the same character over and over for random screenies, saying that someone else can't LR a character away from high AC.

That and the word 'had' does not mean 'have'.



Point is, it would be nice to see more than just lip flapping from some of these peeps instead of making stuff up on the fly and saying differant things in their posts to make a point.

AGAIN

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Quikster
Youre numbers are bogus. Your ac will be craptastic. But hey, what do I know, Ive only had 6 or 7 melee that can reach 80 + ac and 1 over 100. Youre right, roll it up, have fun.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It would be nice for once to see a screenshot instead of peeps throwing numbers out there they make up.

I looked at your toons you in no way have 6 or 7 (YOU DONT KNOW??) toons that reach 80 + AC

Please show a quick screen shot of one Toon showing the 100 AC, Ya Did not think so, throwing numbers in the forums is quite differant than doing it.

My 2 cents

Trixxie of thelanis

Oh BTW Quikster in an earlier post in this thread you said boosts and temp buffs do not count as AC so I am wondering if you are Quoting that in your phoney Paper AC as well. Hmmmm

I Have Looked at His toons and while a decent toon unless he LR or his Toon can no way reach The 100+ AC he proposes even with The Stuff he says is not considered AC.

[kernal42]

Point is, it would be nice to see more than just lip flapping from some of these peeps instead of making stuff up on the fly and saying differant things in their posts to make a point.


No, the point is that your "stars aligned" situational screenshots are just as useless as Paper Numbers - neither are reasonable representations of the build during actual questing scenarios.

Cheers,
Kernal

PS davidcampa - you appear to have posted the same post twice. Feel free to delete one. Or both.

[davidcampa]

[QUOTE=kernal42;3218456]No, the point is that your "stars aligned" situational screenshots are just as useless as Paper Numbers - neither are reasonable representations of the build during actual questing scenarios.

Cheers,
Kernal

Ah correct, But I actually do it and when the situation arises Trixxie can buff up any stat on the fly when needed, why because I know how and practise it.

I do not talk smack and make stuff up like some of these other posters and back up their claims on paper and say so, what I do actually works because I have done it.

[Thrudh]

AC is mostly gear... A barbarian can have a high AC AND high DPS, but not at the same time... I wouldn't try to build a barbarian who runs around with AC gear on all the time.

But it's certainly possible to build a barbarian/fighter who can switch between DPS (95% of the time), and intimitank (5% of the time).

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=270416

[kernal42]

I do not talk smack and make stuff up like some of these other posters and back up their claims on paper and say so, what I do actually works because I have done it.

I can appreciate the "results talk" attitude. However, there's nothing more convincing about your statement of "I have done it" than there is with Quikster's statement of having had a 100+ AC toon. Quikster likely has a situational AC breakdown, and you have situational screenshots. Neither are necessarily representative of real capabilities while questing.

The only difference to me, who does not have a 100+ AC toon, is that Quikster's breakdown shows how I might achieve a high AC on a toon of my own; your screenshots do nothing for me.

Cheers,
Kernal

[Thrudh]

Well, it's added to your AC, just another part of your survivability.

As I said, the "classic" and usual way to build a barb is indeed to prioritize (spelling?) hp & dps. However, given you have the will & time (it requires quite some grinding), it is doable to add another utility to your barb, such as having a decent AC, which can prove to make the difference in some situations.

In the end, it s all about playing a char that provide an enjoybale gameplay for you, and to still contribute to the party you are in. The game is not that hard that you need to min/max absolutely or you cant complete a raid/quest.

This.

[Sweyn]

Please show a quick screen shot of one Toon showing the 100 AC, Ya Did not think so, throwing numbers in the forums is quite differant than doing it.



http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn109/hebe_010/106ackruc.jpg

Oh, and that was back when the level cap was 16

[Visty]

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn109/hebe_010/106ackruc.jpg

thats not 100, thats 102 (or 106 if you count the tumble) :p

[Thrudh]

Ok, as you said, "ADD".
So you must keep:
- high dps
- high hp
and ADD
- useful AC.

So max STR, max CON, rest in DEX. Power Attack and enhancements, Power Rage (it lowers AC), frenzy berserk (so you need Cleave), 3xITHF, Toughness. DPS sets from ToD.

Can you explain WHERE can you fit stat and items to ADD ac ?

Items can be swapped... You can take off DPS items and put on AC items. Rage can be dismissed. Splash 2 levels of fighter for the AC feats.

[Thrudh]

Ty for the feedback, but i like AC as it is. As said before this isn't my build, only using this to speak about AC in Barbarian.
I prefer 1 Caster level to get also Expeditious Retreat, can use it at any moment in an emergency with Sprint Boost and an Invisibility potion.

Although I'm defending the idea of AC on a barbarian and have one myself, I do not agree with the OPs version... High Dex is not the answer...

A barbarian needs max STR, a high CON and Frenzied Berzerker III... After that, everything else is negotiable.

I think 1 level of wizard is a waste here... Get some striding boots or haste potions... Heck, the sprint boost alone is usually all you need to run away.

[Thrudh]

Ac is a min or max stat. Sorry to break it to ya. If you dont fit into the d20 range that ac needs to be helpfully, its absolutely worthless.

Yes, but a barbarian CAN get into that d20 AC range... I'm talking about normal/hard raids here though, not elite and epic runs...

Maybe we're just looking at two different playstyles? I'm still running VoD on normal and hard to get my Tharne's... You may only be doing elite and epic. Our definitions of "worthless" may be very different


Yes its all about enjoyable game play. And I guarantee most people will not enjoy playing with this build. If the OP wants to build it, thats fine, but for you to sit here and tell him its viable, is wrong. Its not anywhere close to viable.

The OP's build may not be viable... A high DPS barbarian who can switch to worthwhile AC IS possible though.


Anyone who thinks that 20/30 second boost count as primary stats (ie ac) hasnt played ddo very long and hasnt played at end game.

The Improved Uncanny Dodge boost is probably the best one in the game since you can keep it running continously... 2:30 minutes is a decent amount of time, and can be factored into AC equations...

When I'm intimitanking in VoD, I save that boost for the second wave of orthans... It lasts long enough so the clerics can heal the orthan beaters and not worry about me.

[Quikster]

It would be nice for once to see a screenshot instead of peeps throwing numbers out there they make up.

I looked at your toons you in no way have 6 or 7 (YOU DONT KNOW??) toons that reach 80 + AC

Please show a quick screen shot of one Toon showing the 100 AC, Ya Did not think so, throwing numbers in the forums is quite differant than doing it.

My 2 cents

Trixxie of thelanis

Oh BTW in an earlier post in this thread you said boosts and temp buffs do not count as AC so I am wondering if you are Quoting that in your phoney Paper AC as well. Hmmmm



I said boosts, nothing about buffs.

The point of calling his numbers trixxie numbers was just that. Most of the buffs/boosts he lists are not realistic to have in a quest, just as many of your screenies your so famous for. Its not a knock against you. You like to make screenies of what your alts can do max numbers wise. Cool. knock yourself out.

As far as my alts, get a life. Does myddo show all three of my accts that arent linked to this forum user name? No did think so. Does myddo show alts ive deleted? No didnt think so.

Ive had 2 clonks that could buff to over 80. Both have been deleted.

My fighter in my sig can buff to over 100. sorry no screenies, I dont need to post screenies to prove it to you, thats not high up on my priority list.

Before that fighter was a fighter he was a 14/6 rogue/ranger who could buff into the high 80's

Paly on that acct can also hit the low 80's buffed.

Had a dwarven fighter on that acct that could hit 81 at 16.

On another account I have a 12/6/2 wfd that could hit 81 hes tr'd into a lv 10 monk currently.

Same acct, 13 rogue/6 ranger/1 monk hit high 80's buffed, hes currently tr'd into a ranger, lvl 3.


I think thats all, count em up.


I can show a screenie of my self buffed twf if you like. Or you can look at my build breakdown to see how its done.

Self buffed twf ac is 77 i believe, might be 76.

Add

5 for a shield.
1 ranger bark
4 bard song
6 paly aura
3 halfling buff
5 blocking
______________

think thats 100. really not that hard to do man, just because I dont post a screenie of it doesnt mean i cant do it.

Go troll somewhere else with your, "I myddo'd you and youre lying." Thats three times you tried to pull that **** on me, and its just as wrong as it was the first time.


Edit:: Ok my bad, self buffed twf is 78, no boosts. So 83 with a shield, 88 blocking. 92 with bard sont, 95 with halfling, 101 with paly, 102 with ranger bark. Sustainable for 5 minutes with a halfling. 99 with no halfling.

[Quikster]

Yes, but a barbarian CAN get into that d20 AC range... I'm talking about normal/hard raids here though, not elite and epic runs...

Maybe we're just looking at two different playstyles? I'm still running VoD on normal and hard to get my Tharne's... You may only be doing elite and epic. Our definitions of "worthless" may be very different



The OP's build may not be viable... A high DPS barbarian who can switch to worthwhile AC IS possible though.



The Improved Uncanny Dodge boost is probably the best one in the game since you can keep it running continously... 2:30 minutes is a decent amount of time, and can be factored into AC equations...

When I'm intimitanking in VoD, I save that boost for the second wave of orthans... It lasts long enough so the clerics can heal the orthan beaters and not worry about me.

For a raid that can be done in 7 minutes, i guess less than half of it he could have a decent ac, yes i agree. But while he has that decent ac, his dps is ****.

I dont think I ever said that barbs cant have ac, I said that his build sucked.

[Visty]

, I said that his build sucked.
you should edit that part out, might get you infractions :D
(if someone in charge even reads this thread that far that is)

[Quikster]

you should edit that part out, might get you infractions :D
(if someone in charge even reads this thread that far that is)

Too late now that you quoted it, but i guess you figured that out already eh?

[Visty]

Too late now that you quoted it, but i guess you figured that out already eh?

tell me when you edit it and ill change the quote

and jep

[richieelias27]

I said boosts, nothing about buffs.

... snipped in the interest of not having an uberlong quote in my post ...

think thats 100. really not that hard to do man, just because I dont post a screenie of it doesnt mean i cant do it.

Go troll somewhere else with your, "I myddo'd you and youre lying." Thats three times you tried to pull that **** on me, and its just as wrong as it was the first time.

Ah yes, but what were your "total" stats? :D

[Quikster]

you should edit that part out, might get you infractions :D
(if someone in charge even reads this thread that far that is)

Technically this is what i said:


How about your ac will be to low to be effective, and your dps will suck.


:)

[Visty]

Technically this is what i said:




:)
well, then youre on the safe side :)

[Thrudh]

For a raid that can be done in 7 minutes, i guess less than half of it he could have a decent ac, yes i agree.

On normal or hard, you can get the AC high enough to matter, even without the boost... And my specific example was a good one... In VoD, not much is going on most the raid. It's only near the end when the second wave of orthans come in (along with devils) that things get a little hectic... Improved Uncanny Dodge is an excellent boost during that time.

Don't generalize everything. It's like people who say that Enlarge is a waste of a feat, because most of the time, it is. But there are places where it is very useful.

Boosts are situationally useful... There ARE moments where things are just a little bit more dangerous, and a 20 or 30 second boost can make a difference. I usually use a vorpal in Hound, because I can get my AC high enough to barely get hit, and I kill about as fast as when I DPS the renderers. There have been times when multiple renderers got into the middle, things got a little crazy and I intimidated them off of the clerics or casters, and used a boost to stabilize the situation... By the time the boost wore off, the situation was under control. Sometimes 30 seconds is all you need.


But while he has that decent ac, his dps is ****.

Absolutely. A barbarian can't achieve decent AC without losing a LOT of DPS.


I dont think I ever said that barbs cant have ac, I said that his build sucked.

Ah, then we're in agreement on both counts! :) :)

[SlogUK]

It's an interesting experiment...

I think I know where it's coming from - the issue when you play a barb a lot is "How can I justify taking so much of the cleric's mana?" I worried about that constantly when I was new to the game - my first and only toon for two years was Slog.

I just don't think that AC is the answer. If you want to be effective, get your DPS Maxed and your DR. Then look for things like jerky and jungle cloaks, and make a ton of guards - including perhaps a conc opp guard for the hps and the extra will save... I haven't done that but it might be an option for you. You want to be mitigating and taking advantage of the damage that you take. Also bump up your healing potential and if you're really worried about it dig out a collection of good bodyfeeders with a high crit range - like a falchion, and use them on the right mobs. Although nothing beats a crafted weapon really - MIN2 gaxe and triple pos maul is nice as you can put 30% healing amp on tier 3 - since it only crits on a 20 and you'll mostly be using it for undead, the damage on blast aint worth it compared to the healing. But that's just my opinion.

AC on a barb is a losing battle really especially clicky dependent - if you've got madstone boots it's pretty much totally pointless, and even if you don't you can't clicky with rage, and even if you get organised and do them all first most of them don't last long enough. And if you're in the front line, anything that makes you do less damage - and give back less damage when you are hit - is a waste.

For guards consider steam guard as one that procs a lot, and radiance / earth are nice, perhaps on sovereign runes for DT - and you can get corrosive salt and magma surge on the tempest too. Look for epic bramble-casters for the thornguard and the permanent 10DR for arrows etc.

The more I play barbs - and I only have 2 capped - one crit rage dual pick wielder and one Frenzied Berserker - the more I realise that your AC is your hit points, and your DPS. With a good barb the mob is dead on normal before it has time to land a hit on you, and on elite it might get a hit in but die pretty soon after.

If you decide to get some kit and try it anyway then I wish you good luck, and would be very happy to eat my words. But I very strongly feel that an AC barb would not work - you lose too much. As people have said before, if you want AC make a fighter, or a Pally. If you wants DR and DPS make a barb.

[Quikster]

On normal or hard, you can get the AC high enough to matter, even without the boost... And my specific example was a good one... In VoD, not much is going on most the raid. It's only near the end when the second wave of orthans come in (along with devils) that things get a little hectic... Improved Uncanny Dodge is an excellent boost during that time.

Don't generalize everything. It's like people who say that Enlarge is a waste of a feat, because most of the time, it is. But there are places where it is very useful.

Boosts are situationally useful... There ARE moments where things are just a little bit more dangerous, and a 20 or 30 second boost can make a difference. I usually use a vorpal in Hound, because I can get my AC high enough to barely get hit, and I kill about as fast as when I DPS the renderers. There have been times when multiple renderers got into the middle, things got a little crazy and I intimidated them off of the clerics or casters, and used a boost to stabilize the situation... By the time the boost wore off, the situation was under control. Sometimes 30 seconds is all you need.






By no means am I saying dont ever use boosts. But you bring up two examples of raids that are both completed in less than 10 minutes for some groups, less than 15 by many groups, and less than 20 by almost all groups.

You are correct, in vod 70% of the time is spent doing nothing, or attacking the back of a mob. You say its a good example and I say its a bad one, for the same reasons.

I say, using boosts to calculate ac numbers is misleading. If you want to show the boosted potential, cool. It shows just that, a boosted potential. But to say, "I have 77 ac" when that 77 is not sustainable, is misleading. You dont have 77 ac, you have a boosted ac of 77. Once the first few encounters that you need that ac have passed, you no longer have 77 ac.

[Quikster]

Ah yes, but what were your "total" stats? :D

Aww heck i have no idea. what the heck does that mean anyway lmao +1

[Thrudh]

I say, using boosts to calculate ac numbers is misleading. If you want to show the boosted potential, cool. It shows just that, a boosted potential. But to say, "I have 77 ac" when that 77 is not sustainable, is misleading. You dont have 77 ac, you have a boosted ac of 77. Once the first few encounters that you need that ac have passed, you no longer have 77 ac.

I'll agree with that.

[ddobard1]

I shown here with numbers a barbarian two handed build with no shield (!), that can attain 52 AC unbuffed, 65 AC buffed (Without Halfling!), and 76 AC boosted. It has more HP than Exploiter, and when needed or rages or flees away, depends on the assessment. I don't care if i can't join parties because he isn't maxed, i play it because i like Barbarian and i like AC too. They say Dexterity isn't the way! But i enjoy high relex saves to be able to solo, and go through those traps! That's all.
I see many opinions but the only link made available was to a Barbarian with shield!

[khaldan]

Expect to solo quite a bit, so 52 AC is going to be normal on your build.

A level 5 wizard has better EAC(effective AC) against anything with a +42 to hit.

[Visty]

I shown here with numbers a barbarian two handed build with no shield (!), that can attain 52 AC unbuffed, 65 AC buffed (Without Halfling!), and 76 AC boosted. It has more HP than Exploiter, and when needed or rages or flees away, depends on the assessment. I don't care if i can't join parties because he isn't maxed, i play it because i like Barbarian and i like AC too. They say Dexterity isn't the way! But i enjoy high relex saves to be able to solo, and go through those traps! That's all.
I see many opinions but the only link made available was to a Barbarian with shield!

you know that the barb with shield has only 5 ac more then with a shieldclicky?
and yet he has better dps then you, better ac and prolly more hp (thrudh stated no exact number on that)

try again

[Thrudh]

I shown here with numbers a barbarian two handed build with no shield (!), that can attain 52 AC unbuffed, 65 AC buffed (Without Halfling!), and 76 AC boosted. It has more HP than Exploiter, and when needed or rages or flees away, depends on the assessment. I don't care if i can't join parties because he isn't maxed, i play it because i like Barbarian and i like AC too. They say Dexterity isn't the way! But i enjoy high relex saves to be able to solo, and go through those traps! That's all.
I see many opinions but the only link made available was to a Barbarian with shield!

You can't make a barbarian who has a good AC AND can do good DPS at the same time...

You can make one that does great DPS OR has a good AC, but NOT at the same time

Your barbarian has way too many stat points in Dex, and you can't have that AC when you're raged!

So your AC is decent, but your DPS is ****... If you rage, your AC will drop a ton...

A barbarian can switch to intimitank with a decent AC mode, or he can be in raged, maxed DPS mode... But you can't do both at the same time.

[ddobard1]

Y solo 52 AC, something wrong, pull Boosts +11 AC, assess situation, rage and overrun? Sprint, Expeditious, Inv pot and flee? Depends.
No, i made sacrifice to get shield spell, its +10 with pure Barb DPS! (+1 Alchemical shield bonus!), and the example linked is a Barb splashed with Fighter using Tower shields!

[ddobard1]

That's not the point, it isn't for block or int or whatever. It's for first line melee two handed no shield with average AC, and if something wrong with option to rage or to flee!

[Visty]

http://teacherseducation.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/celebrity-pictures-yoda-much-fail.jpg

[ddobard1]

Lol! Ty.

[davidcampa]

I said boosts, nothing about buffs.

The point of calling his numbers trixxie numbers was just that. Most of the buffs/boosts he lists are not realistic to have in a quest, just as many of your screenies your so famous for. Its not a knock against you. You like to make screenies of what your alts can do max numbers wise. Cool. knock yourself out.

As far as my alts, get a life. Does myddo show all three of my accts that arent linked to this forum user name? No did think so. Does myddo show alts ive deleted? No didnt think so.

Ive had 2 clonks that could buff to over 80. Both have been deleted.

My fighter in my sig can buff to over 100. sorry no screenies, I dont need to post screenies to prove it to you, thats not high up on my priority list.

Before that fighter was a fighter he was a 14/6 rogue/ranger who could buff into the high 80's

Paly on that acct can also hit the low 80's buffed.

Had a dwarven fighter on that acct that could hit 81 at 16.

On another account I have a 12/6/2 wfd that could hit 81 hes tr'd into a lv 10 monk currently.

Same acct, 13 rogue/6 ranger/1 monk hit high 80's buffed, hes currently tr'd into a ranger, lvl 3.


I think thats all, count em up.


I can show a screenie of my self buffed twf if you like. Or you can look at my build breakdown to see how its done.

Self buffed twf ac is 77 i believe, might be 76.

Add

5 for a shield.
1 ranger bark
4 bard song
6 paly aura
3 halfling buff
5 blocking
______________

think thats 100. really not that hard to do man, just because I dont post a screenie of it doesnt mean i cant do it.

Go troll somewhere else with your, "I myddo'd you and youre lying." Thats three times you tried to pull that **** on me, and its just as wrong as it was the first time.


Edit:: Ok my bad, self buffed twf is 78, no boosts. So 83 with a shield, 88 blocking. 92 with bard sont, 95 with halfling, 101 with paly, 102 with ranger bark. Sustainable for 5 minutes with a halfling. 99 with no halfling.


You do have a nice toon But saying trixxie 's screenshots are unrealistic but your paper toon AC is not, Well That is my point.

My screen shots were always self buffed only While yours quoting on Paper requiring 3 other classes to help you and 1 has to be a halfling. built (correctly,Accordingly)

I would say neither is realistic but mine is more practical.

[Khanyth]

Can we just make a rule that any barb build that has a level of wizard/sorcerer just gets auto deleted.

Sorry.... but it's just not right.

[ddobard1]

I like 1 Arcane caster level for Shield and Expeditious Retreat. Shield faster casting when needed, Expeditious retreat automatic button to flee from death.

[Quikster]

I like 1 Arcane caster level for Shield and Expeditious Retreat. Shield faster casting when needed, Expeditious retreat automatic button to flee from death.

Umm, haste pot works too.

[ddobard1]

Less time haste potion. Expeditious nice to have during fights too. No shield potion, and need UMD to to wand.

[r3dl4nce]

Expeditious retreat automatic button to flee from death.

You are right, a gimped buld like the one you posted need EVERY single help he can to flee from death, it's the only good thing that can do!

[ddobard1]

Don't be radical, may be gimped a bit (AC flavor!), but a valid one.

[r3dl4nce]

A barbarian starting with 14 str and 14 con is NOT a valid one, everyone is telling you this, I even posted you the right stats to start building on, but you don't like to listen to advices.

[ddobard1]

I didn't mention before but i need skills for soloing: Balance, Bluff, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, UMD. Want decent Wisdow to Will too.

[Quikster]

I didn't mention before but i need skills for soloing: Balance, Bluff, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, UMD. Want decent Wisdow to Will too.

You got one thing right, youre going to need skills for soloing...

[hecate355]

I shown here with numbers a barbarian two handed build with no shield (!), that can attain 52 AC unbuffed, 65 AC buffed (Without Halfling!), and 76 AC boosted. It has more HP than Exploiter, and when needed or rages or flees away, depends on the assessment. I don't care if i can't join parties because he isn't maxed, i play it because i like Barbarian and i like AC too. They say Dexterity isn't the way! But i enjoy high relex saves to be able to solo, and go through those traps! That's all.
I see many opinions but the only link made available was to a Barbarian with shield!

that ac doesent come from your build, it comes frm your equipment mostly, you can set up 52 ac on about anything, i can turn my wizard into ac maniac, loose all damage related gear and sit on my 50+ ac and be completely worthless

have you even tried to fit all those items together? what if you need 4 hands, 2 heads?

like i said befor i really doubt you can do both same time stay in high dps configuration and have reasonable ac

[Quikster]

Less time haste potion. Expeditious nice to have during fights too. No shield potion, and need UMD to to wand.

Haste will last long enough to run away.

Haste is nice to have during fights.

Your shield spell will last 1 minute longer than a clickie. You are taking a splash for very very little benifit. Pretty much a no no. A lot like the rest of your build. :D

[hecate355]

I like 1 Arcane caster level for Shield and Expeditious Retreat. Shield faster casting when needed, Expeditious retreat automatic button to flee from death.

wear striding, it cant be dispelled, get umd to use shield wands, its ridiculous to get wizard level for shield spell. i have cleric with around 12 umd befor few eq swaps and boost, and i can pretty reliably use 7th level shield wand(~4 minutes duration), all that with being nowhere near high umd, i barely invested anything into umd at all.

one day i reroll and add decent umd on that char, but it works even now, for such meager thing as shield spell.

[ddobard1]

Dexterity comes from my Character!

1 Wizard level = Shield + Expeditious + Dog + Extend + Spare a slot

[Thrudh]

I like 1 Arcane caster level for Shield and Expeditious Retreat. Shield faster casting when needed, Expeditious retreat automatic button to flee from death.

You can't cast if you're raged.... Dismissing rage and then casting a spell takes as much time as drinking a potion or using a clickable. And if you're in trouble, dismissing rage drops your hps a lot, which could be deadly.

Barbarians and casting don't go well together.

Sprint Boost is usually enough to get away.

[KillEveryone]

Don't be radical, may be gimped a bit (AC flavor!), but a valid one.

This is not a valid build.

Until you actually roll and play this build it will never be a valid build and since you have no intention to play this build then it will never be valid.

Also...

Your STR is too low. You won't be doing any real DPS. The critter that you are trying to kill will kill you first because you won't kill it fast enough.

Your CON is a bit low. Since you won't kill the critter fast enough, you need more hitpoints to stay alive and you are going to lack that buffer.

You have too much DEX. Your DEX isn't high enough to matter in a reflex save. This is wasted.

You have too much WIS. Your WIS isn't high enough to matter in a will save. This is wasted.

You have too much INT. You aren't going to have enough SP to be able to keep up your spells because they won't last long enough. Even with extend they won't last long enough.

CHA is meh. This actually could help if you want whip the spells you want because if you get a Expedious, Shield and what ever first lvl spell on a wand but with a higher casting level on that want your spells that you want will last longer.

Now for more...

Suck a haste pot. It will help you kill faster. It isn't for escape but since you won't be killing anything with this then the haste pot is only going to be good for escape. Haste is faster than Expeditious retreat. You would be better off using a sprint boost since you can use that when raged and you can get those up to a decent sprint speed.

Your DPS is going to suck because you are not investing into any real STR. You may have a decent AC for trash mobs but you are going to have to use a item slot that would be used for any STR or CON item or any DPS type of item for that matter.

Caster level is a waste. It will lower your BAB. It will lower your HP. It brings nothing of value to your build and there are better alternatives out there so the caster level totally invalidates your build.

This build is just smoke.

Roll it, play it. Until you do that, this build is total waste of forum space and your numbers mean NOTHING.

[archora]

A build designed to run away, wow thats awesome....

[KillEveryone]

A build designed to run away, wow thats awesome....

Needs to be named Sir Robbin.

[Khanyth]

I ain't advocating this build, i wouldn't roll it. I would go for the AC, Abilities and HP here.
Only presenting a Barbarian build with decent AC. I would emulate the AC if i rolled a Character.

Hold on a sec... I missed this one.

You mean to tell me that:

1. You've are not advocating that anyone take this build.
2. That you yourself would not roll it

Seriously? I thought that you had rolled this and were speaking from experience.

Wow... your creditability (whatever was left) just fell out and floated away like a dog crapping into a rushing river.

Why the hell would you post a build that you yourself would not build is sheer retardation.

I feel dumber for reading this garbage now. At first, it was funny and amusing that someone would actually do it... and to be honest, I became to admire that you did this, in spite of all the people telling you not to.

But now, that this is nothing more than a theoretical build of something that you would do in theory but never done in reality.... wow.

Please never post again.

[ddobard1]

Dont take conclusions without feedback!
I didn't explain quite well. I would pick almost everything of this build: AC, Abilities, Race, Barbarian class, HP, and skills.
I wouldn't pick the same feats, the same enhancements, would add diferent splashes to the build, and changed some of the gear posted.
I didn't put my build because i want to focus the discussion about the AC, but i would choose this AC route in my Barbarian. Let's say my build is personal flavor and people would talk about many other things than AC. :)

[toughguyjoe]

Dont take conclusions without feedback!
I didn't explain quite well. I would pick almost everything of this build: AC, Abilities, Race, Barbarian class, HP, and skills.
I wouldn't pick the same feats, the same enhancements, would add diferent splashes to the build, and changed some of the gear posted.
I didn't put my build because i want to focus the discussion about the AC, but i would choose this AC route in my Barbarian. Let's say my build is personal flavor and people would talk about many other things than AC. :)

Even if the build is personal flavor, the first time you are asked to do something involving having your DPS at a good level or are asked to tank something and are expected to keep agro, what do you do?

Do you say, "Sure!" and then fail?

Do you say "Sorry this is a flavor build and I don't have a very good rage so my DPS is lower than every other Barb?"

I'm not saying the build is unplayable, just that its not going to be very useful, or accepted in raid situations, or even end game six man instances.

*shrug*

[r3dl4nce]

i think this thread is useless, i hope every new player reading this can understand how much the OP is wrong.
bye thread

[ddobard1]

I lfm explaining my build. This is a solo build basically that's why i pick so many skills. As is said this is the AC of my Barbarian build!

[archora]

Flavour builds are fine but I'm not so sure about poo flavour :)

[Waukeen]

it is gimp.

your ac numbers are wrong as well (unless you have changed them since yesterday)

you reliance on the ability to switch between subpar rage and shelled up is overly optomistic.

the caster splash for 1 min clicks of the shield spell and exped retreat makes no sense, get clickies.

UMD on a barb would also be difficult to work in well on a GOOD build.
at least then you could use 10 min blur, shield, and exped retreat wands. (if that is your thing)

however, more than anything else, your resilience in the face of many detractors is admirable.

[hecate355]

Dexterity comes from my Character!

1 Wizard level = Shield + Expeditious + Dog + Extend + Spare a slot

dog? seriously those are pointless, i dont get the ppl who summon such, even with augment summoning, im not convinced any summonling justifies taking feat for it. summoned animals have very very rare and situational use.

shield? as i said befor, with close to non existant umd you can use shield from wands

extend? look above, there is nothing else worth to extend from level 1 spells, tumble for reaver, jump for bunny jumps...ahem

just saying that you CAN get 100% same result without taking wizard level, multiclassing is not something you should consider as first option, feats used for something is very big investment, multiclass splash is even bigger investment.

i guess we live in different universe, i will never roll a melee with less than 16 on stat that is used for to hit bonus(dex on finesse), plus all level ups will go into that stat as well
have played enough melees to 20 to know it cant be done in any other way

roll it up and play to gap, let us know how you liked it

********************************************(just some random rant!)

just saying that this will be gimp, gimps are hard to notice most of time, cause other people in group will do most of whats needed, thus no1 complains. sometimes gimpage reaches up to critical ammount and suddenly everyone wonders why the hell is this quest so **** hard today, why doesent mobs die, why group gets run over, why did we wipe, lots of why's. then random people will be blamed, healers, nukers; phantom of failure gets to everyone.

reputation however tends to build up, piking once, twice, thrice is fine, being gimp every run however will finally get noticed declined/squelched/ignored depending on temperament and principles of group members

even if dont always manage to connect failing a quest to specific name(s), over longer time i reflexively learn to avoid names that bring back memories of hard as hell runs and party wipes. none of us likes being tired, annoyed and worn out after run, or even worse, after 2 party wipes where together with forming time you spent over 1 hour of your time and energy.

there is thin balance line somewhere between elitism/tweaking and noobish ignorance, its not only your own problem if you suck, you are responsible towards people around you as soon as you join group. i can partially understand both sides.

its not just a game, we are real people spending our real time on this, it is fine for some not to accomplish anything in their daily playtime, most of us however want something done during that :D

ps: this post is not directed against OP or anyone in person, i just found myself striving in thoughts

[hecate355]

I lfm explaining my build. This is a solo build basically that's why i pick so many skills. As is said this is the AC of my Barbarian build!

you are controversial, solo flavor builds will never have that kind of equipment in first place, unless you TR
assuming its not TR build, you end up toe to toe with people while raiding for your gear, and in that situation, i personally wouldnt accept this build into my group

[ddobard1]

I can be as gimp as i want!
Show why my numbers are wrong, so i can correct them. Ty.
Spells faster to cast than clickies.
Dog as diversion.
Extend (Free.) Shield and Expeditious Retreat.
14 Strength doesn't compromise any build.
I add to LFM short description of my build. Don't want to fool anyone.
I am not bothered about people don't group with me, i can solo.

[r3dl4nce]

I can be as gimp as i want!Yes. Simply don't give advice to others on how to gimp their characters. Gimp only yours!


Show why my numbers are wrong, so i can correct them. Ty.You should re-read all the thread, lot of people are giving you a lot of numbers and informations (like taking in account uncanny dodge and ac boost in the calc of AC, lol, 20 seconds of ac lol)


Spells faster to cast than clickies.Lol


Dog as diversion.At level 1-2, maybe. After, Lol


Extend (Free.) Shield and Expeditious Retreat.rais umd and use wands for 10 minutes


14 Strength doesn't compromise any build.Lol


I add to LFM short description of my build. Don't want to fool anyone.No one want to party with this build don't worry, learn to solo with a gimp char.


I am not bothered about people don't group with me, i can solo.Yes, you can solo Khortos Island and perhaps harbor and market in normal. i.e. a build good to run 5% of the game.

[Khanyth]

I can be as gimp as i want!

Then roll this character... oh wait, I forgot... you're not advocating someone actually do this


Show why my numbers are wrong, so i can correct them. Ty.

0 = the number of times that you have rolled and ran this character
0 = the amount of success you would have had, had you rolled and ran this character
0 = the amount of advice you should be giving
0 = the amount of hours of fun anyone would play if they did roll and run this character
0 = the amount of repeat PUG's you'll get once your server knows you are the ****tiest build on the server
0 = the amount of credibility you have
0 = the number of posts you should ever post again, at least in the barbarian forums
0 = the amount of strategy you possess

How are those numbers?

Oh, and the "correct them" part..... you can't shape ****.... just flush it. Like this build should be: flushed down with the ****


Spells faster to cast than clickies.

Thank you Captain Obvious. How fast will your spells be cast when you are raged, like every barbarian should be? And before you give me the "I'm not going to rage that much" ****, guess how fast you'll be dismissed from your group? Pretty **** fast. Oh, and guess how much mana a cleric/fvs will spend to heal your butt or raise your dead butt, because you are Captain Gimp Build.

0 (numbers to help you)


Dog as diversion.

???????


Extend (Free.) Shield and Expeditious Retreat.

Again, when you can't cast them because you're raged..... or you cant' cast them because you're dead.... they're just as useless as this build.


14 Strength doesn't compromise any build.

I'll say it one more time: YOU ARE A BARBARIAN.... YOU NEED MAX STRENGTH. 14 strength on barbarian is like **** on a bull.... useless


I add to LFM short description of my build. Don't want to fool anyone.

It seems like the only one you are fooling is yourself with this, the bunk build of the year


I am not bothered about people don't group with me, i can solo.

Isn't the point of the game to group with others?
Besides, you still won't be able to solo when you're dead and releasing your spirit on a consistent basis.


Again: please stop posting

[supp3nhuhn]

I think 14 strength on a barb can basically be workable.
What i find more troubling is your refusal to take power rage which is required to get the frenzied berserker PrE and that is where a whole lot of barbarian damage output comes from (up to 10 extra strength, 6d6 extra damage, +3 to the crit multiplier on 19 and 20).

The whole reason why you would want to make a tanking barb is to have good dps in the 95% of the time where a tank is not needed.
A stalwart defender will have more damage output then you and will be able to actually get a meaningful ac without the use of short term boosts.

A free feat only is nice if its actually useful, thus the level of wizard on a strict melee toon is not granting you anything really.
Sure you could wear the robe of duality and with extend you'd be looking at 6 minutes duration for your spells but since you wear armor swapping would take quite some time and you'd still be 4 minutes short compared to an umd build (barbs get 4 skill points per level up so basically they can afford this without major multiclassing or int raises).

[archora]

I doubt this build could get agro even when soloing so there shouldnt be a real need to run away.

I think if i was soloing on this build I would kick myself from the group :)

[ddobard1]

I ain't given any advice here, only discussing the pros and cons of putting AC on a Barbarian.
I ain't Captain, only wanna be a Barbarian multiclassed with AC! But ty anyway.
And say again to stop posting here! :)
Yes we are all differents! If i roll a Character i will roll one Barbarian multiclass, with more than 50 AC, more than 700 HP, and with the Expeditious Retreat spell. (Expeditious Retreat stacks with Barbarian Sprint Boost?)
Because i enjoy Barbarian, HP, speed and AC in a Character.
I'm not advocating this build, and ask people to read at least a few posts from the thread, and take your conclusions.

[khaldan]

I ain't given any advice here, only discussing the pros and cons of putting AC on a Barbarian.
I ain't Captain, only wanna be a Barbarian multiclassed with AC! But ty anyway.
And say again to stop posting here! :)
Yes we are all differents! If i roll a Character i will roll one Barbarian multiclass, with more than 50 AC, more than 700 HP, and with the Expeditious Retreat spell. (Expeditious Retreat stacks with Barbarian Sprint Boost?)
Because i enjoy Barbarian, HP, speed and AC in a Character.
I'm not advocating this build, and ask people to read at least a few posts from the thread, and take your conclusions.

You're talking about a build, which you like and have posted, but aren't advocating?

What?

[Khanyth]

You're talking about a build, which you like and have posted, but aren't advocating?

What?

Not only that... but a build that he has never rolled.

So all this is fiction.

A dillusion.

A 100% non-game tested build.

Just a whole bunch of theory thrown together and then defended.

Without the balls to put his money where his mouth is, and play the build.

Defend a gimp build all you want.... but at least have the balls to back it up with in-game experience

[elujin]

hijacks thread for a moment (i deserve to do this after reading this useless thread for 8 pages )

would a barb tanking on intimi dr and hp be an option mebey with level ups in con ? and breaking out a shield when needed for more dr?

[Visty]

levelups into con are always a bad idea, no matter the class. con is always secondary stat

a dr hp tank can work though

[AylinIsAwesome]

232 lvl 19 barb/ 1 Wiz or Sorc
260 con (36 = 14 + 6 + 4 + 3 + 1 + 3 + 5 con)
20 ddo
10 aa favor
23 toughness
40 enhancements
30 racial enhancements
30 gfl
45 shroud item
20 toughness item
___________________
710

Stats: 14/14/14/14/14/10

AC

10 base
8 dt leather
7 dex (14 starting! 14 + 6 + 3 + 1)
5 protection
4 insight
4 natural (epic seal of the earth? Really!)
3 dodge
1 ritual
5 combat expertise (14 int here)
1 Dodge
4 shield spell (1 Wiz or Sorc here! And Expeditious retreat too!)
_________________
52 unbuffed


1 haste
2 recitation
________________

55 party buffed


You can buff it, if you can find someone willing to party with you, and keep you buffed.

4 bard song
5 paly aura
+1 Ranger Barkskin

65 ac

+6 AC Uncanny 5 x 30 Seconds
+5 AC AC Boost 5 x 20 Seconds

So str will go as follows.

14 starting
4 tome
6 item
_____________
24 strength

+6 rage
+2 rage
+Frenzied Rage
+Madstone


Two Handed Fighting here!

Feats.

You get 8 as a human barb. 18 Barb/1 Fighter/1 Wiz

Dodge
CE
Toughness
thf
ithf
gthf
Power Attack
Cleave
Improved crit
Extend


Last note: this isn't the build i would make, i take only the abilities allocation, HP and the AC.

This is perhaps the worst build I have ever seen. 14 WIS on a Barbarian? Are you kidding me?


And as for your STR, my WIS-based Favoured Soul would out-DPS you.

Your build is a gimp. Delete it now.

[Tobril]

http://cutroni.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/unique.jpg

[ddobard1]

Just upgraded it to a Shield version, after all if i want AC i must take a Shield.

With Shield: AC = Base (10) + DT Leather Armor (8) + Dexterity (7) + Protection (5) + Combat Expertise (5) + 5 Twilight Mithral Heavy Shield (7) + Greensteel Weapon Insight (4) + Epic Seal of the Earth (5) + DT Dodge Tier 3 (3) + Dodge Feat (1) + Alchemical Armor Ritual (1) + Alchemical Shield Ritual (1) + Improved Uncanny Dodge 30 Seconds (6) + Human Versatility Armor Class Boost 20 Seconds (5) = 57 + 6 + 5

Right now it's at 68 AC with shield.

Spell Haste (+1)
Spell Recitation (+2)
Bard Inspire Heroics (+4)
Paladin Aura of Good (+5)
Halfling Hero's Companion IV (+3)

So with these buffs i hit 68 + 15 = 83 AC with shield! Nice.

WARNING: this build isn't a "perfect" one! Many say it's gimped! It isn't about usefulness or DPS too. It's one for those outside who like HP, DR, speed and a bit of AC in a Barbarian.

[Thrudh]

Just upgraded it to a Shield version, after all if i want AC i must take a Shield.

With Shield: AC = Base (10) + DT Leather Armor (8) + Dexterity (7) + Protection (5) + Combat Expertise (5) + 5 Twilight Mithral Heavy Shield (7) + Greensteel Weapon Insight (4) + Epic Seal of the Earth (5) + DT Dodge Tier 3 (3) + Dodge Feat (1) + Alchemical Armor Ritual (1) + Alchemical Shield Ritual (1) + Improved Uncanny Dodge 30 Seconds (6) + Human Versatility Armor Class Boost 20 Seconds (5) = 57 + 6 + 5

Right now it's at 68 AC with shield.

Spell Haste (+1)
Spell Recitation (+2)
Bard Inspire Heroics (+4)
Paladin Aura of Good (+5)
Halfling Hero's Companion IV (+3)

So with these buffs i hit 68 + 15 = 83 AC with shield! Nice.

WARNING: this build isn't a "perfect" one! Many say it's gimped! It isn't about usefulness or DPS too. It's one for those outside who like HP, DR, speed and a bit of AC in a Barbarian.

Splash fighter, wear DT full plate armor (AC of 15 + 1 Dex - better than your DT leather of 8 + 7 Dex), and you can use a Tower Shield (9 AC instead of 7)

And with DT full plate, you can dump Dex, and max out STR again...

You can make a near-full DPS barbarian who can switch into AC mode... Again, you just can't be both at the same time.

18/2 barbarian/fighter http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=270416

[Khanyth]

Just upgraded it to a Shield version, after all if i want AC i must take a Shield.

With Shield: AC = Base (10) + DT Leather Armor (8) + Dexterity (7) + Protection (5) + Combat Expertise (5) + 5 Twilight Mithral Heavy Shield (7) + Greensteel Weapon Insight (4) + Epic Seal of the Earth (5) + DT Dodge Tier 3 (3) + Dodge Feat (1) + Alchemical Armor Ritual (1) + Alchemical Shield Ritual (1) + Improved Uncanny Dodge 30 Seconds (6) + Human Versatility Armor Class Boost 20 Seconds (5) = 57 + 6 + 5

Right now it's at 68 AC with shield.

Spell Haste (+1)
Spell Recitation (+2)
Bard Inspire Heroics (+4)
Paladin Aura of Good (+5)
Halfling Hero's Companion IV (+3)

So with these buffs i hit 68 + 15 = 83 AC with shield! Nice.

WARNING: this build isn't a "perfect" one! Many say it's gimped! It isn't about usefulness or DPS too. It's one for those outside who like HP, DR, speed and a bit of AC in a Barbarian.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6JPrNHnRVZI/SQs7cPaG25I/AAAAAAAACsk/Js2oM9ypCv0/s320/out+demons+of+stupidity.png

[r3dl4nce]

WARNING: this build isn't a "perfect" one! Many say it's gimped! It isn't about usefulness or DPS too. It's one for those outside who like HP, DR, speed and a bit of AC in a Barbarian.

WARNING. This build has not been played from the OP, and he said he will not roll a similiar toon, this build is all based on item impossible to obtain for this build (epic seal of earth??? NONE will want this build in a epic quest, it's a leecher build). If you want waste your time and a character slot, play at your own risk and danger.

[NuclearCoffee]

Khanyth when i put a LFM, i don't have pre-defined expectations about any Character. That's more fun! A Battle Cleric, a DPS Paladin, a Ranged Fighter, a Caster Melee, it's fine! They can all be great, and make smooth runs.
I prefer to get out of parties who can't accept alternative builds. 63 AC, 77 AC buffed without Shield is acceptable.
I don't expect nothing from no one a priori, the Cleric may prefer to nuke! Need healings, cast Expeditious Retreat, Sprint Boost, Invisible potion and try to loose aggro, don't expect healing, only when unconcious i expect if anyone can.

This guy has not played end game plain and simple, He is a FTP that all.