RocknRoll: Kensei II/Warchanter build

[Dialis]

Updated this build based on feedback, choose a dwarf instead of drow with more focus on melee and HP.

Since my last build had a pretty bad flaw, I thought I would try something a little simpler and more straightforward: a fighter with healing and spells to help him. I could have gone something like 15/5 warforged fighter/wizard, but I choose to go 12/8 bard instead.

Race: Dwarf for high melee stats and + on dwarf axes
12 Fighter gets me: Kensei II (rapier), greator weapon specialisation, greater two weapon fighting, improved critical pierce, a good BAB and HP to build upon.
8 Bard gets me: Warchanter, 3 level 3 spells (cure serious wounds, displacement, haste) as well as some useful level 1-2 spells, +7 song buff, mass hold (fascinate), max in skills UMD and Perform. I don't plan to cast any offensive spells except maybe charm person.

I figured this build would be pretty decent DPS, have some decent solo/group buffs, and handle solo play very well. In a group he can also provide some backup healing if needed. Since I have max in Perform, this build should be able to fascinate nearly as good as a more dedicated pure bard, but have much better melee (but with fewer songs/rest).

So without further delay, here is the RocknRoll build:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

RocknRoll
Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(12 Fighter \ 8 Bard)
Hit Points: 350
Spell Points: 242
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 13
Will: 10

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23 24
Dexterity 15 17 17
Constitution 17 19 20
Intelligence 10 12 12
Wisdom 8 10 10
Charisma 10 12 12

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 6 7 11
Bluff 0 1 3
Concentration 7 23 25
Diplomacy 0 1 3
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 0 1 1
Heal -1 0 0
Hide 2 3 3
Intimidate 0 1 3
Jump 3 28 28
Listen -1 0 0
Move Silently 2 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform 4 24 27
Repair 0 1 1
Search 0 1 3
Spot 1 2 2
Swim 3 8 8
Tumble 6 7 7
Use Magic Device 4 24 24

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Fighter)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Kensei Dwarven Waraxe Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Dwarven Waraxe Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Perform II
Enhancement: Bard Perform III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I

[Darkwolf1071]

The only real problem you'll find...and I'll be honest, I didn't read through your build breakdown simply because I have a guildie with this build and I know how it works...is that in some quests, you'll find you won't have enough/long enough songs. Other than that, it's a very effective build. I wouldn't want yours to be the only bard around in, say, VOD, but you'd be fine in Shroud and Hound, and with the DPS you can do, it wouldn't hurt to pick up a 'dedicated' Bard as well for longer/more songs.

[Bardicus]

Your strength is far to low along with your con. Alternatively, your cha is far too high. I'd recommend against Drow as well.

Roel has done a great job looking at various 12 dps levels + 8 bard level build here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=263913

[Angelus_dead]

I figured this build would be pretty decent DPS, have some decent solo/group buffs, and handle solo play very well.
Have you looked at how it would compare to Bard18/Fighter2? Remember that having 10 more Bard levels makes your buffs notably more powerful.

[Dialis]

The reason I choose the stats like I did, is simply to maximize the overall gain (no stat raises cost more than 1 point). I might not have been clear about that, but this is primarily a solo build, and high cha will help with fascinate. I also like to get lots of skills high for versatility, so a decent Int is a must when you have 12 levels of fighter.

For a pure DPS/song buff build, high str/con WF is obviously better, but I thought this would work better when I will spend most of my time soloing. My hitpoints wont be that low and I will get really high DC on my fascinate. I might even get enough AC to make it matter.

Besides, I don't like WF. Seems every class is best as WF, and they are ugly.

[Darkwolf1071]

I might even get enough AC to make it matter.


Speaking as someone who has a DPS Warchanter; your AC is your Displacement.

[Samadhi]

Since my last build had a pretty bad flaw, I thought I would try something a little simpler and more straightforward: a fighter with healing and spells to help him. I could have gone something like 15/5 warforged fighter/wizard, but I choose to go 12/8 bard instead.


Just speaking straight to your initial premise.

With 8 bard (or 5 wizard) you are going to have worse self-healing with mana than you would have just UMDing a heal scroll (reconstruct scroll). Your offensive spells won't work past low levels. Your buffs will be short, and inferior. Go full bard or close to it (where your buffs will become effective enough to *somewhat* nullify the DPS lost from not being Kensai) and you can cast offensively; or go 18 Ftr/ 2 Rog, be a true DPS machine, with evasion, and with UMD to self-heal as well as your current proposal can.

[ThePrincipal]

I have a 6fight/6ranger/8bard... (kensei/tempest/warchanter) that i made prior to update 5 nerfed tempest. i went twf dwarf with axes. bards are rare at later lvls so inspired courage and ironskin get u into groups. i maxed out my perform skill and can fascinate mobs above my lvl without a problem which has its uses situationally. dps isnt tops but it does the job, just get the right gear. i use paralyzer/improved curse, stat damagers, and vorpals most commonly.

for ur build, i'd go with a lower cha and int and up str and con. try to get 16 str and 14 con starting since this is first and formost a melee build. songs dont use spell points and u just need enough to buff urself and/or emergency heal. blur, rage, heroism, focusing chant, r great spells. wands fill in the rest. you probably dont want intimidate. you dont have the ac or hp to tank. if u have any extra feats, dont be afraid to take multiple toughness feats. i personally wouldnt have taken empower heal or quicken.

EDIT: PS you'll get some hate on the forum because most people dont like deep multiclasses.

[Dialis]

I think there is to much focus on the stats. For example, the difference between 14 and 18 is +2, thats it. Just by being drow and using rapiers, I close that gap with drow rapier enhancements. In fact, the enhancements are better (I think) since they add +2 damage to both hands, while str adds less damage to your offhand. At the same time, I get a lot from higher int/dex/cha which I feel will help me more (but maybe I am wrong).

I also think that decent AC helps, even if its not so good that every mob misses almost everything. They roll a D20 just like we do, meaning that the gap between pure miss AC and few misses AC is almost 20. And a few extra misses (with or without displacement) compensates for lower constitution.

The situation when raiding and facing Epic mobs are different of course, but if/when I start to raid I can always resurrect and change my build accordingly.

[hydra_ex]

I think there is to much focus on the stats. For example, the difference between 14 and 18 is +2, thats it. Just by being drow and using rapiers, I close that gap with drow rapier enhancements. In fact, the enhancements are better (I think) since they add +2 damage to both hands, while str adds less damage to your offhand. At the same time, I get a lot from higher int/dex/cha which I feel will help me more (but maybe I am wrong).

I also think that decent AC helps, even if its not so good that every mob misses almost everything. They roll a D20 just like we do, meaning that the gap between pure miss AC and few misses AC is almost 20. And a few extra misses (with or without displacement) compensates for lower constitution.


So what you're telling us is that you'd rather invest points in something near-useless than in something with potential value? And that's ignoring the fact that even swapping CHA and CON will afford you around a 10% increase in hp.

Yes, on non-epic mobs, there is a 20 range. Now tell me, if your AC is 30, and the mob's to hit is +40, then is your AC doing anything at all?

Also, when you post a build for critique, people assume that it's geared towards endgame, i.e. inclusive of, and meant to be primarily played in raids and epic content.

[BoBoDaClown]

I think there is to much focus on the stats. For example, the difference between 14 and 18 is +2, thats it. Just by being drow and using rapiers, I close that gap with drow rapier enhancements. In fact, the enhancements are better (I think) since they add +2 damage to both hands, while str adds less damage to your offhand. At the same time, I get a lot from higher int/dex/cha which I feel will help me more (but maybe I am wrong).

I also think that decent AC helps, even if its not so good that every mob misses almost everything. They roll a D20 just like we do, meaning that the gap between pure miss AC and few misses AC is almost 20. And a few extra misses (with or without displacement) compensates for lower constitution.

The situation when raiding and facing Epic mobs are different of course, but if/when I start to raid I can always resurrect and change my build accordingly.

Those plus '2's add up - that's how you make a good build.

Your fascinate will be strong anyway - so you can lower cha.

Your int also seems very high i.e. do you need intim? When your main play is solo? On a squishie bard?

[Bardicus]

I think there is to much focus on the stats. For example, the difference between 14 and 18 is +2, thats it. Just by being drow and using rapiers, I close that gap with drow rapier enhancements. In fact, the enhancements are better (I think) since they add +2 damage to both hands, while str adds less damage to your offhand. At the same time, I get a lot from higher int/dex/cha which I feel will help me more (but maybe I am wrong).


Stats do matter.

You're at 12 Con compared to 16 con on a WF or Dwarf. Drow don't have Racial Con bonus, that's another bracket. Drow don't have Racial Toughness III or IV. That's 80hps that you cannot get back.

You're down +2 to hit and damage vs a Dwarf (who can use DAxe enhancements) and you can't get the WF PA enhancements either and are skipping out on Khopesh.

You're locked into a DPS bard build that doesn't have the HP to mix it up endgame or the individual DPS to justify the loss of Song DPS.

Again, I'd recommend looking at the Half-a-Bard thread - it deals with everything you're trying to accomplish here and presents several possible builds.

[Dialis]

Dwarf does sound interesting, stats could be 16/14/16/12/8/12, using dwarven axes of course (they seem pretty decent), and skills about the same except Intim. Or maybe the stats 16/12/18/12/8/10, but now I am sturdy enough to want intim again :-)

Or maybe I just make a human pure light Monk and light-fist my way through everything, I always seem to dream up builds that look (or feel) promising but fails to deliver.

[ddobard1]

A tough build. Like your Abilities. In a party you are a powerful second line melee or even a first line melee with Expeditious Retreat. You bring excellent buffs. Like someone said, seems to me that Empower Healing and Quicken are in opposition to the build philosophy. To be more solo friendly i suggest to drop Intimidate, Concentration, and pick Listen and Bluff. The number of your songs will be enough since you'll be using Improved Courage, Ironskin Chant and Fascinate. (Bard level 8.) It's a fun build very survivable.

[Dialis]

Updated my first post with a modified build:
- Dwarf instead of drow
- More focus on melee, less on healing
- Less int and cha (and fewer high skills)

This build should still be able to fascinate well, but will do more melee damage and can take more of a beating. The bard song inspire courage gives +7 in damage as before (and +5 tohit).