Vorpal - is it really all that?

[wlmartin]

I have turned level 10 and have the option of buying a Vorpal Greatsword +1 for 100k

Now the price is ... well pricey but it seems that Vorpal is at a premium until higher levels
The 100k is spendable, I can justify it however I want to know if Vorpal is really ALL THAT!

With Improved Crit I will crit 20% so my big questions are

1 : Does Vorpal effect only work on a natural 20 or will it apply as per my crit range (so for a Greatsword with Imp. Crit, 17-20)
2 : Is Vorpal's Insta-Kill effect worthwhile or should I just stick with a weapon of greater bane to do the damage?
3 : Is it worth it?

I am looking at fighting Beholders in the near future (on the Invasion Grind now) and whilst I have decent enough weapons vs Evil Outsiders I am struggling to get something good vs Beholders but I hear that Vorpal does a good job

What are your thoughts?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Vorpals only Vorpal on a confirmed natural 20.

They are most useful on very high HP mobs, anything you can kill in less than 20 swings you can DPS instead.

Beholders are easier to DPS (or have a caster kill), and the bane of beholders is weakening/enfeebling weapons. They have low str and once you get them to zero they just sit there unable to cast while you beat them to death.

[deathtouch]

Yeh however at level 10 the mobs dont have that many hit points, so DPS is the way to go in my opinion.

Yes Vorpal only works on 20 then I believe you have to confirm the crit also.


However If you are on Khyber I have a vorpal greatsword that you can have.

[toughguyjoe]

Vorpal does not work against Beholders. Obviously it will deal damage, but I had a friend take screen shots a long time ago to prove that rolling a natural 20 with a vorpal sword on a beholder does not kill them. they have no discernable "head" which makes them immune.

[wlmartin]

Yeh however at level 10 the mobs dont have that many hit points, so DPS is the way to go in my opinion.

Yes Vorpal only works on 20 then I believe you have to confirm the crit also.


However If you are on Khyber I have a vorpal greatsword that you can have.

Death, thanks for the offer - am on Sarlona so won't help
It does appear though that like most things in DDO - everthing is scaled and whilst a Vorpal would be fun, the benefit to a lvl 10 melee is negligible when compared to other DPS options, which is what I thought and it dettered me from buying it outright

To the comment that they dont work on Beholders, ouch - DDO Wiki states they do but I believe you since you have actual experience it seems.

So the only real option then is (as per my recent post : http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3210908&posted=1#post3210908) is to go with something vs Lawful Evil, Abberation Bane, Good, Holy or possibly Para

Beholders are fun... they are possibly one of the coolest looking monsters in Dungeons and Dragons :)

[deathtouch]

Not a problem, always trying to help out my fellow brits :)

Like they said for Beholders use WoE.

Have fun

[Kriogen]

Vorpal is on 20 only. That's it.

So it makes sense to use vorpal only if you need 20 or more 'damage' hits to slay a monster.

You need to swing fast with as many vorpal weapons at the same time as possible. So attack speed boosts and *two* vorpal weapons. If you don't have that, then vorpal is not very good.

Best weapon vs Beholders is weaken of enfeeble (they have low STR) or just the best 'damage' weapon you have. They are evil and don't have any special DR or resistance.

Another annoying thing is that Beholders dispel all buffs. So you have to do it with not-magical, 'natural' boost. Barbs Rage, Bards song, attack speed boost, etc.

In general, best vs Beholders is DC specced caster. Finger of Death, Destruction. I like Web + Finger combo. Web is there is Finger fails. Hold Monster is also nice if a warrior is nearby.

[wlmartin]

[QUOTE=deathtouch;3210933]Not a problem, always trying to help out my fellow brits :)

/QUOTE]

There are so few of us, we gotta stick together!

[MateCarefor]

I would say at lvl 10 you can get more mileage out of a paralyzer than a vorpal.
Stunning would be even better, but more build specific.
And paralyzers do work quite well on beholders. (slimes too, even)

Vorpals tend to have mediocre damage until the effect goes off, and depending on your character, they are usually hard to hit with being only +1.

On the other hand, I tend to have one around on my support characters so if the melees get overrun, I can swing and hope for a confirmed 20.

And, yeah, not much to lop off a beholder, as mentioned above. Lopping off stalks would have some good comedic value, though! :)

[Kepli_Moonshadow]

You will glad to have a vorpal in one hand, paralyzer in the other by lvl 12 (Vale of Twilight). Other than that, go paralyze until then.

[wlmartin]

I would say at lvl 10 you can get more mileage out of a paralyzer than a vorpal.
Stunning would be even better, but more build specific.
And paralyzers do work quite well on beholders. (slimes too, even)

Vorpals tend to have mediocre damage until the effect goes off, and depending on your character, they are usually hard to hit with being only +1.

On the other hand, I tend to have one around on my support characters so if the melees get overrun, I can swing and hope for a confirmed 20.

And, yeah, not much to lop off a beholder, as mentioned above. Lopping off stalks would have some good comedic value, though! :)

Unfortunately Para Weapons cost more than Vorpals and whilst I do have money in the bank, 150k on a weapon seems a LOT!

Para would seem to work well on a Beholder as although it wouldn't auto-crit (which would be lovely) it shuts down its eyestalks and makes it a big punching bag

So torn.... I need someone to tell me "Buy a Para or the kitty gets it" - otherwise the shoppers guilt would just kill me :)

[ArloOne]

This is what is refferred to in game as the power 5:

1- Vorpal
2- Paralyzer
3- Smiter
4- Disruptor
5- Banishing

Most melee focused characters should, imo, have one of each of these in there backpack when your level allows(or a weapon set of 2 for TWF)

In the old days, when you got to Gianthold. It was reccommened you came with the "Power 5"

In my opinion, paralyzer is the most beneficial with THF. The mob needs to make a save every successful hit.

As you get to higher level you will find Improved versions of some of these which increase there DC.

Have fun hope this helped.

Yes..UPDATE Banishing is one also..not cursing weapons!

Thanks Visty...Not sure what I was thinking!

[Emili]

If you were on Khyber would help you out with a set of some weapons... they tend to clutter the banks.

[wlmartin]

This is what is refferred to in game as the power 5:

1- Vorpal
2- Paralyzer
3- Smiter
4- Disruptor
5- Curespewer


Have fun hope this helped.

Indeed...

Being Level 10 - I see the above very arely

Vorpal, as I understand it is 2-19 a normal nerfed version of that weapon, 20 (if conformed) is insta-death to all those with heads that can be removed from bodies

Paralyzer seems to be quite good at "stunning" the opponent and with cleave and running around hitting all u can break apart the mobs momentum much a web, hypno or other CC would do

Smiting seems to work only Vs constructs and at this stage of the game Im not seeing many of them

Disruption is powerful - havent run into one of these yet (unusure if it is ML10 or much higher) but this looks brilliant vs Undead

Cursespweing seems alright but im not a fan of debuffing at mid levels, yes it is always better when they cant hit you but since im a barb I need to focus on quick damage rather than a drawn out siege and I have no doubt I will need this in later levels when monsters with 100's-1000's of HP are not uncommmon

[wlmartin]

If you were on Khyber would help you out with a set of some weapons... they tend to clutter the banks.


:) thanks for the offer... Unsure why I picked Sarlona as my home server as it seems a lot of the brits / irish people I run into are on Kyber!

[Tazarith]

And correct me if i'm wrong...but

With Vorpals..throw proficiency, "to hit" and BAB out the window and swing away cuz all that counts is that natural "20" assuming no deathward or a head that sever ofcourse :)

[wlmartin]

And correct me if i'm wrong...but

With Vorpals..throw proficiency, "to hit" and BAB out the window and swing away cuz all that counts is that natural "20" assuming no deathward or a head that sever ofcourse :)

I would however thing NUMBER of swings helps, so whilst BAB isnt a factor, higher BAB goes hand in hand with greater number of swings me thinks

That being said-- most crappy wiz / non melee types can pretty much equip one of these, sit behind a monster (always safest place to be) and swing away until they get a natural 20... and voila, headless chicken!

It would be an interesting experiment to see how quickly 6 (or 12 if a raid) wiz's min/maxed with 8str and no decent to hit could take apart a quest that was 100% vorpal-able voes... :)

[Visty]

This is what is refferred to in game as the power 5:

1- Vorpal
2- Paralyzer
3- Smiter
4- Disruptor
5- Curespewer

strange, always thought banishing is the nr 5

[Canuckish]

So, on the line that Vorpals are Automaticly triggered on a 20, would it make sense for a Caster who is lightly set up for melee to use a Single Greatsword Vorpal or TWF a Pair of Vorpal 1handers?

If as said a 20 is an automatic trigger, and the Caster cannot do much DPS normally vs high HP mobs, then the 2x1handers would kill quicker, but if its not automatic then the -4 to-hit would mean they never land...

(theory being sitting in a firewall swinging?)

[toughguyjoe]

The problem some people are having is that on a roll of a natural 20 a vorpal THREATENS to kill the enemy. It still acts as a critical hit and REQUIRES confirmation.

If a group of 8 str wizards ran through a quest swinging vorpals they would die. they would perhaps kill a few with the vorpal effect but anything with a moderate to decent AC would thwart them, as when the rolled the natural twenty their critical confirmation roll would fail, thus no vorpal.

[DToNE]

Vorpals isn't exactly the best option to have on a two handed weapon, because it'll only trigger less than 5% of the time, thus speed is of the essence. Paralyze, on the other hand, will trigger over 70~80% of the time if a monster isn't immune from level 10 to about 17~18. Even at high levels, people that use two-handed vorpals are rare.

Since your crit range is 17-20, I'm assuming that you're using a greatsword with improved crits. For squishy targets, I'd actually recommend the Falchion, which with the same improved crit feat is a crit range of 15-20/x2 (30%).

[Draccus]

strange, always thought banishing is the nr 5

It is.

Each Power5 weapon is basically an insta-kill weapon (paralyzers are the lone exception).

Vorpals: where vorpals are best are when an entire group is using them against high HP mobs. Back when the cap was 16 and new raids like Shroud and VoD were considered to be difficult, and not automatic like they are today, a raid group wielding vorpals could dispatch the trash mobs very quickly and easily with vorpals.

I remember raid leaders in VoD announcing if we were using "vorpals or stat damagers" so the whole group was using the same thing. One person wielding a vorpal isn't going to make much of a difference. But with 8-10 people dual wielding them, a lot of heads were flying.

Your other option is to roll an assassin. Anything we pick up is a vorpal. :)

[Autolycus]

This is what is refferred to in game as the power 5:

1- Vorpal
2- Paralyzer
3- Smiter
4- Disruptor
5- Curespewer



I bought the first 4 on the AH as I could afford them. They are expensive and broke me each time, but I've found them to be very helpful, with the exception of the Vorpal. I'm probably not high enough level for it to shine yet though. I use the Paralyzer the most, followed by the Disruptor and the Smiter. Each can be devasting vs. the appropriate mob. I've never had/used a Cursepewer.


strange, always thought banishing is the nr 5

That would have been my thought as well. That's what I'm currently saving up for.

[johnyBgood]

I say buy the vorpal sword...upgrade it next winter games, maybe even do some force ritual on it..then see how you like it..

[Dsav101]

I love the Imp. cursespewing/ paralyzer combo for vale. Amrath and parts of raids, I am usually dual weilding vorpals. Vorps do fantastic work as someone said with 5-10 people all wailing away with em. Kinda fun to watch actually.

-Hustler

[Maxallu]

Vorps should be a staple of your arsenal along with woe', and wops, smiters, banishers, disruptors, construct banes etc.

[dkyle]

Back when the cap was 16 and new raids like Shroud and VoD were considered to be difficult, and not automatic like they are today, a raid group wielding vorpals could dispatch the trash mobs very quickly and easily with vorpals.

Vorpals are still the best option, especially in VoD. Seriously, my Bard almost always has top kills in VoD because I consistently use Vorpals on the trash, while everyone else seems to be DPSing them.

[PopeJual]

I tend to whip out the Vorpals against orange named bosses in the wilderness and against Devils and Orthons. Most other enemies go down fast enough that my good DPS weapons take them down faster than my Vorpals would.

It's tough to beat Vorpal weapons against high HP trash mobs or against trash mobs that self heal (Running with the Devils is what I'm thinking of here).

[MrWizard]

I have turned level 10 and have the option of buying a Vorpal Greatsword +1 for 100k

Now the price is ... well pricey but it seems that Vorpal is at a premium until higher levels
The 100k is spendable, I can justify it however I want to know if Vorpal is really ALL THAT!

With Improved Crit I will crit 20% so my big questions are

1 : Does Vorpal effect only work on a natural 20 or will it apply as per my crit range (so for a Greatsword with Imp. Crit, 17-20)
2 : Is Vorpal's Insta-Kill effect worthwhile or should I just stick with a weapon of greater bane to do the damage?
3 : Is it worth it?

I am looking at fighting Beholders in the near future (on the Invasion Grind now) and whilst I have decent enough weapons vs Evil Outsiders I am struggling to get something good vs Beholders but I hear that Vorpal does a good job

What are your thoughts?

waste of money.
Do not do it.
Many cheaper vorpals out there even if you have to wait for a level or two.
WIth the lower attack rates and such, just not worth it.
(though it is fun).

wait til you pull one.

A great place to get cheap ones is at the vendors. Any weapon vendor that takes in level 10+ gear is bound to have some. Reavers refuge, inspired quarter are 2 great places to get 'at cost' vorpals of all kinds (yea, I know, you are not high enough level to get there yet).

However, other vendors will have them too.

Post in your server forums marketplace and say you want one. Many people just vendor them, even at the inn, as they drop so much and are not worth much.

tell the 100k guy, he is a moron for trying to rip you off.

[RTN]

Vorpals are also great for characters that can hit fairly well, but don't do massive DPS. Some of the mixed role FvS and pure melee bards come to mind.

[Darkrok]

So, on the line that Vorpals are Automaticly triggered on a 20, would it make sense for a Caster who is lightly set up for melee to use a Single Greatsword Vorpal or TWF a Pair of Vorpal 1handers?

If as said a 20 is an automatic trigger, and the Caster cannot do much DPS normally vs high HP mobs, then the 2x1handers would kill quicker, but if its not automatic then the -4 to-hit would mean they never land...

(theory being sitting in a firewall swinging?)

You need a few things to make this work and then it works pretty well.
1) Start with 14str. Casters can afford it.
2) Get as many Divine Power clickies as you can afford and carry. They're critical to help you confirm crits.
3) Get a bloodstone if you can afford it. Alternatively you could dual wield, off-handing a seeker +10. If your dps is truly not that good then you won't miss the extra base weapon damage and you'll confirm a lot more crits.

If you have those things going then your caster will be as good at vorpaling as any other one weapon fighting character. Obviously people twf with the feats would be much better but you'll still be contributing. I've found just 1 and 2 to work fine for me on my caster.

[Krag]

This is what is refferred to in game as the power 5:

1- Vorpal
2- Paralyzer
3- Smiter
4- Disruptor
5- Curespewer

Out of 'power 5' only vorpal has something to do with power. The rest is just overpriced vendor junk.

[PopeJual]

Out of 'power 5' only vorpal has something to do with power. The rest is just overpriced vendor junk.

I'll go ahead and disagree with that. My Paralyzer is my primary off hand weapon. It's like getting displacement or blur or extra AC and DPS in the same weapon. +1 Icy Burst Paralyzing Khopesh of Enfeebling with a Tiny guild slot ML 14. I love it. If you learn how to paralyze one enemy and then dance around him, you can avoid damage from an entire swarm while beating on one opponent at a time.

I'd rather swing my Paralyzer against most enemies for levels 10-18ish than a LitII. (Edit: I feel that way because I have a nice DPS weapon in my other hand. If I were THF, I wouldn't like Paralyzer quite as much).

[Propane]

The min LV 10 stuff is very expensive - because it is the first level that you can get these types of weapons (unless rr)..

I would just holdoff until LV 12 (and or 14) - you can get these off the AH for a lot less coin....

[oweieie]

Vorpals are still the best option, especially in VoD. Seriously, my Bard almost always has top kills in VoD because I consistently use Vorpals on the trash, while everyone else seems to be DPSing them.

Yeah, that. If mobs have high HPs like devils tend to then vorpal is often the way to go. It really depends on how many HPs the mobs have and how much DPS you do. They're not the best choice for every situation but there are a few situations where they are definitely the best choice.

[KillEveryone]

I may give vorpals a try when I start playing my TWF fighter again but with a THF weapon, I find that vorpals are not really that good unless you have a nice second effect on them but even then I've not been impressed with them.

With my THF vorpals, by the time I've rolled a 20 I could have killed the critter with a better weapon.

[danzig138]

That sword is overpriced. IMO, vorpals are much better for a TWF than a THF. With THF ,I'd rather go with something that just throws out as much damage as possible or maybe a paralyzer depending on the situation.

[Tazarith]

Just to Clarify -

+ Seekers in the off-hand will count towards confirmed crits on the main-hand?

[dkyle]

Just to Clarify -

+ Seekers in the off-hand will count towards confirmed crits on the main-hand?

Yes. Seeker and Backstabbing both apply to both hands. Weighted applies its bonus to stunning DC to both hands, but not its 3% stun attempt.

[Maegin]

Get a vorp, man. The mileage you'll get out of it is extraordinary, and you'll thank yourself later.

[SlogUK]

Vorp is nice on elite at level 10. Say you want to run relic elite at 10 it's handy for the tough armored dudes at the end. As the skill levels go down the use goes down as dps becomes more viable. And also take into account that some mobs cast mass deathward so you might be totally wasting your time - keep an eye out for that black skull over their heads. Situationally it can always be useful, and toon dependent. But if you're using it on a non-melee toon, you'd best make sure you can confirm those criticals, or you're really wasting your time.

It works on a confirmed critical. It cuts the head off the mob, - (Comes from Jabberwocky) - so the mob has to have a head and a neck. - (Comes from Jabberwocky) - Now as far as I know beholders ARE heads, but since they have no necks you can't vorpal them. Sneeeeek up behind and hit them with WoE and crippling strike if you're a rog and they are doomed in no time.

It can also be handy in threnal at that level, if you have no cold iron holy weapons for the reavers etc. Why waste time hitting them with flannels when you can chop their heads off. Basically it's probably worth it if you have a toon that can use it at 10, but be clever about when and how, so you don't waste time and healing.

And for those that are saying eh Jabber what? - it's in the public domain so noone can get miffed if I whack this on:

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

“Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!”

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought—
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

And as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! and through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

“And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”
He chortled in his joy.

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.


Have fun. Also if you can wait a couple of days, Slog has 2 lvl 10 vorp gaxes in his inventory and needs neither. So pm me and i'll post one to u.

Cue people flaming me for breaking the market.

Oh and it seems Slog won't be called Slog anymore. Cos the name is take, I just tried it. Bah. Well - you'll see me - probably Slog-Devourer if I can do it.

[Phidius]

:) thanks for the offer... Unsure why I picked Sarlona as my home server as it seems a lot of the brits / irish people I run into are on Kyber!

I think you answered your own question :D

I'd agree with waiting for level 12 -14 to get cheaper vorpals. Most of the stuff you'll encounter until then are easier to kill with DPS.

Not all, just most.

[Inferno346]

So it makes sense to use vorpal only if you need 20 or more 'damage' hits to slay a monster.


I'm not sure where people pull "20 hits" out of thin air. If you are looking for the number of hits when you first have more than a 50% chance of having vorpalled, it is 14. Provided you always confirm critical hits,

1 - (19/20)^10 = 40% chance of vorpalling in 10 hits
1 – (19/20)^15 = 54% chance of vorpalling in 15 hits
1- (19/20)^20 = 64% chance of vorpalling in 20 hits

[GBantaR]

-snip

Didn't realize what Inferno was actually saying and tried to correct his math. My bad.

He makes a good point. The vast majority of the time you won't require 20 swings to vorpal something.

[English_Warrior]

I'm not sure where people pull "20 hits" out of thin air. If you are looking for the number of hits when you first have more than a 50% chance of having vorpalled, it is 14. Provided you always confirm critical hits,

1 - (19/20)^10 = 40% chance of vorpalling in 10 hits
1 – (19/20)^15 = 54% chance of vorpalling in 15 hits
1- (19/20)^20 = 64% chance of vorpalling in 20 hits

Because you ONLY vorpal on a natural 20...so on a standard 1-20 spread...you do 1 vorpal (assuming crit confirmation) per 20 swings.

"more than 50% chance of vorpal from 14 hits" is far less useful than saying:

"Over the life of the weapon, 1 in 20 swings will probably result in a vorpal to vorpalable mobs....therefore if you can DPS the mob in less than 20 swings it probably isnt worth it and vice versa."

[Inferno346]

It’s a little more complex than I was originally thinking since you want to minimize your average hits per kill. I’m going to try a vastly simplified scenario. Feel free to correct my math and stuff.

You always hit on a 2. Your DPS weapon always does 50 damage per hit, and your vorpal weapon always does 40 DPH. You never roll a 1, and you are attacking a 100% fort mob with 1000 hitpoints. You always confirm critical hits. Which weapon set should you use?

If vorpal never triggers, this gives 1000 / 40 = 25 hits per kill with your vorpal weapon.
1 – (19/20)^24 = 0.708
70.8% of the time, you have rolled a 20 before your 25th strike.
29.2% of the time, you kill in 25 hits.

0.708 / 24 = 0.0295, so out of all the possible number of hits to kill, the probability of it being 1 hit is 2.95%, the probability of it being 2 hits is 2.95%, the probability of it being 20 hits is 2.95%, and so on (This is different than the cumulative chance that, for a certain number of hits, you have already vorpalled).

.5(24^2) + .5(24) = 300 (Just the sum from 1 to 24)

Average vorpal hits per kill =
(300 * (0.029505) + 25 * (0.291989)) = 16.15 hits

Average DPS hits per kill =
1000 / 50 = 20 hits

Answer: Vorpal

How about an 800 hp mob?

800 / 40 = 20 hits for guaranteed kill with vorpal.

.5(19^2) + .5(19) = 190

1 – (19/20)^19 = 0.62265
0.62265 / 19 = 0.03277

Average vorpal hits per kill =
(190 * (0.03277) + 20 * (0.37735)) = 13.77 hits

Average DPS hits per kill =
800 / 50 = 16 hits

Answer: Vorpal is still slightly better but losing ground as the mob hp goes down.

[Danielson99]

Vorps worked better with twitching but even then I would only use Vorps in the right situation with the right toon. TWF with haste/zeal or whatever speed boost swinging 2 Vorps into large crowds of trash can be really handy, especially with a bloodstone.

But even at it's best, it's not really any better than just using pure power if you have it.

[SINIBYTE]

Theres only 1 time I use vorpals... devils. Everything else simply falls over anyway.

[kernal42]

0.708 / 24 = 0.0295, so out of all the possible number of hits to kill, the probability of it being 1 hit is 2.95%, the probability of it being 2 hits is 2.95%, the probability of it being 20 hits is 2.95%, and so on (This is different than the cumulative chance that, for a certain number of hits, you have already vorpalled).


Not quite - The probability of being killed in 1 hit is 2.95%; the probability of it being killed on the second hit IF IT HAD NOT BEEN KILLED ON THE FIRST is 2.95%. The correct number, then, is 0.0295*(1-0.0295) = 0.0286. The actual calculation for the likelyhood to vorp on the nth hit is 0.05*(0.95)^(n-1). So, on the first hit (n=1), the probability is 0.05, or 1 in 20; exactly as it should be for a vorpal hit. If you care to do the calculation, you'll find that this sums to exactly 0.708 after the 24th hit, verifying your calculation above.

So, while 70.8% of the time you will vorpal the mob before it dies from damage, the average number of hits required before said vorpal is lower. Your distribution gives an average of 12.5 hits before it's vorpalled: the correct calculation yields an average of 10.1 hits before the vorpal. Naturally, for the 29.2% of the time that you kill it from damage on the 25th swing, it takes exactly 25 swings.

The vorpal is actually slightly better than your calculations suggest.

Cheers,
Kernal

[kernal42]

Because this is interesting, I made the following plot:
http://a.imageshack.us/img825/6194/vorpal.png (http://img825.imageshack.us/i/vorpal.png/)

This is actually a useful plot for determining if it's better to use vorpals or dps weapons. For example, if I kill a mob in 12 hits with a dps weapon, then it's worthwhile for me to use my vorpals so long as my vorpals would kill the mob after 20 hits (the line in the image crosses y=12 at around x=20). The "use vorps if it takes more than 20 hits" rule only applies if your vorps do zero damage per hit (going off to the right to infinity...). Realistically, the included consideration of the vorpal weapon damage dramatically increases the useful range of vorpals. For example, supposing your vorpal weapon does half of the damage of your dps weapon, you should always use the vorpal unless your dps weapon drops the mob in 16 or fewer hits. Supposing your dps weapon does only 50% more damage than your vorpal, this threshold changes to 12 or fewer hits.

Cheers,
Kernal

Edit: Corrected an oversight.

[JasonJi72]

I did some testing with this on my multiclass bard WC.

He carries a pair of vorpals, enfeebling, keen, holy, metalline blades, a paralyzer off hand weapon, and some good bows with manyshot. I also have a ring of divine power and haste boost.

Vorpals:

They work great against self healing Dueregar at that level, but give less kills against normal mobs.

Keen:

I use these when im with a high DPS group with power attack on and my AB fully buffed. Almost every hit does +60, and I get a lot of hits.

Holy and metalline:

Good to have for obvious reasons.

Paralyzer:

My main melee weapons are a keen scimitar of enfeebling and a paralyzer off hand weapon.

Bows:

Very consistant damage, and not much threat of getting hurt. I tried using them exclusively on a couple runs to try em out, but now I am gravitating back to 50/50 situational use I have always been fond of. I use them a lot against beholders and casters to draw their aggro while remaining out of range. This allows the melee's to kill them without getting blasted, and they usually die quickly with divine power and manyshot on anyway.

Vorpals are a good tool to have, but make sure you have other tools as well.

[entropiccanuck]

So, on the line that Vorpals are Automaticly triggered on a 20, would it make sense for a Caster who is lightly set up for melee to use a Single Greatsword Vorpal or TWF a Pair of Vorpal 1handers?

If as said a 20 is an automatic trigger, and the Caster cannot do much DPS normally vs high HP mobs, then the 2x1handers would kill quicker, but if its not automatic then the -4 to-hit would mean they never land...

(theory being sitting in a firewall swinging?)

I have a vorpal GS on my WF wiz. It doesn't come out too often, but sometimes it's a life saver. Once, in a Rainbow in the Dark run, my group was having trouble with the Orthon mini-boss ... no one had any GEOBs, DR beaters, and I had the only vorpal. Fortunately, I got a lucky snicker-snack.

I like the THF (greatsword, greataxe) more for my wiz because it's fewer inventory slots and cheaper to aquire. Master's touch, a Divine Power clicky and Greater Heroism are very useful, and give me a reasonable chance of connecting a blow with my GS. I gave some dual scimitars a try, but I couldn't afford the hit penalties with them.

[Astraghal]

Has anyone seen a silver/metalline vorpal of pure good? I would pay well for one of those.

Edit - Especially a dwarven axe.

[Krag]

Has anyone seen a silver/metalline vorpal of pure good? I would pay well for one of those.

Edit - Especially a dwarven axe.

Just curious, what kind of monsters are you planning to fight with it? Vorpalling Harry, eh?

[Astraghal]

Just curious, what kind of monsters are you planning to fight with it? Vorpalling Harry, eh?

All the mobs that have metal based + good DR.

[EustaceTrevelyan]

And correct me if i'm wrong...but

With Vorpals..throw proficiency, "to hit" and BAB out the window and swing away cuz all that counts is that natural "20" assuming no deathward or a head that sever ofcourse :)

You have to roll the natural 20, and then confirm tho, where to-hit DOES come into play.

[Vanshilar]

I did some analysis on vorpal vs DPS a while back:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=226216

Basically the real comparison here is whether you should use your DPS weapon versus your vorpal + DPS weapon (your vorpal weapon presumably does some DPS, just less than your main DPS weapon). However, for the latter vorpal + DPS weapon, figuring out whether or not it's useful is more complicated because the effective DPS of the "vorpal" effect depends on how much HP the target (monster) has -- more HP means more effective DPS.

In general, vorpals start becoming effective in the level 10-15 range, where after level 15 you should (generally) use them while before level 10 you shouldn't use them (not that you can for the most part anyway due to the minimum level), due to how much monster HP scales as you go up in levels.

The more interesting thing is when you should use a vorpal when you are in a group situation, since it's nice to work out when to use which mathematically but that's assuming that you're soloing (i.e. you're the only guy hitting the monster). But that's a topic for another day, as you can see I never got around to posting about it even though I had some modeling done for it already.

By the way, to use vorpals effectively you should work on having a fast weapon swing speed, and thus generally means TWF will be better at it, and builds with a high number of attacks will also be able to vorpal more effectively.

So my advice to you is that you will want vorpals eventually, but it's not really needed at the moment, so you can wait a few levels to see if there'll be a better deal or maybe loot one yourself.