Build experiment - can a dwarf ranger / fighter hit good AC without a monk splash?

[unbongwah]

This is just a mental exercise on my part, to see if this is doable. The idea is to combine dwarf & fighter armor mastery enhs with Tempest & Stalwart Defender AC bonuses. I think you can hit surprisingly decent AC on a 28-pt build with only minimal tomes (though obviously not without a lot of gear). Let's find out if I'm mad or not!

First off, the stats:

STR 30 = 16 base + 5 lvl-ups + 2 enhs + 1 Litany + 6 item (36 w/+2 tome + 7 item + 3 exceptional)
DEX 30 = 14 base + 3 enhs + 1 Litany + 2 tome + 7 item + 3 exceptional
CON 26 = 16 base + 2 enhs + 1 Litany + 7 item
INT 15 = 14 base + 1 Litany
WIS 15 = 8 base + 1 Litany + 6 item (WIS 13 is all that's req'd)
CHA 14 = 6 base + 1 Litany + 7 item

Of course, more tomes would make this better. But I'd like to note that the only one which is required is the +2 DEX to hit DEX 30.

Now the AC breakdown:

10 base
10 mithral breastplate +5
10 DEX 30 bonus (MDB 5 + 3 dwarf armor enhs + 2 ftr armor enhs)
1 Dodge feat
1 Alchemical dodge
2 Chaosgarde
3 Chattering Ring
4 Insight (Shroud crafted)
6 Superior Stability
3 Tempest II
1 Two Weapon Defense
1 Stalwart Defender I
5 Barkskin
57 TWF DPS mode
5 Combat Expertise
62 TWF AC mode

Not bad for a 28-pt build with only one +2 tome. Here's how it does in S&B mode:

5 Kundark Warding Shield (9 - 3 Tempest II - 1 TWD)
2 Stalwart Defender 1 stance
69 S&B AC mode
1 Haste
2 Recitation
4 Inspire Heroics
6 Paladin aura
82 party buffed

No one will mistake this for a mainline tank, but it's pretty decent for a build with humble origins. And there's probably a better armor choice than MBP +5 that I'm not thinking of.

But why would anyone do this when they could just do an Exploiter or a conventional Stalwart Defender? Heck, beats me - I didn't say it was a good idea, I just wanted to see if it could be done! :p

Oh, right, the build - still working out skills etc. but this is what I have so far:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Male
(7 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 12 Ranger)
Hit Points: 344
Spell Points: 115
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 16
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 14 19
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 6 6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 17

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 8 (Ranger)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw


Level 16 (Fighter)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense


Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 20 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery III
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

[DrNuegebauer]

So someone has Necro IV, Vale of Twilight, Restless Isles and Vault of Night (total TP cost 2700?) but they're still stuck on 28 point builds?

No offense - but if someone is going to have to spend 2700 TPs and grind the heck out of those packs for items, then surely they're a prime candidate to spend on monks, and might just have 32 point builds unlocked!

The +10 armour bonus from the MBP and +2 from chaosgarde = +8 bracers and + 4 icy dodge.

Then you could spend the additional 4 build points in wisdom and 2 APs on monk wis I (you save points from the dwarf armour line) so starting wis 12 and end up with 20 = +5 to AC. So net gain would be +4 (-1 for prot 5 instead of superior stability).

Sooo I guess add 4 to all your numbers?

[khaldan]

So someone has Necro IV, Vale of Twilight, Restless Isles and Vault of Night (total TP cost 2700?) but they're still stuck on 28 point builds?


There's no such thing as VIP! I deny it's existence!

[TiberiusofTyr]

The +10 armour bonus from the MBP and +2 from chaosgarde = +8 bracers and + 4 icy dodge.

Then you could spend the additional 4 build points in wisdom and 2 APs on monk wis I (you save points from the dwarf armour line) so starting wis 12 and end up with 20 = +5 to AC. So net gain would be +4 (-1 for prot 5 instead of superior stability).

Sooo I guess add 4 to all your numbers?

The Monk wisdom bonus to Ac will not work with armor such as the mithral breastplate.

[unbongwah]

So someone has Necro IV, Vale of Twilight, Restless Isles and Vault of Night (total TP cost 2700?) but they're still stuck on 28 point builds?
Actually I figure the more likely scenario is a VIP who doesn't have 32-pt builds unlocked; it's tough to make a monk splash work with just 28 pts. Or someone who buys those packs as they level but doesn't want to pay for 32 pts.

But as I said, it's just a hypothetical exercise. It's fun to see what can be done within certain (admittedly arbitrary and unlikely) constraints. "You need a monk splash for good AC!" has become such a mantra I wanted to see if there was a way around it. Really I think the problem is that AFAIK there is no uber light armor in the game which can trump the Icy Raiments + AC 8 bracers combo.

[DrNuegebauer]

The Monk wisdom bonus to Ac will not work with armor such as the mithral breastplate.

Thanks Einstein - which is why I pointed out the same numbers come from bracers and icy.

If you still can't grasp it - um?

[DrNuegebauer]

Actually I figure the more likely scenario is a VIP who doesn't have 32-pt builds unlocked; it's tough to make a monk splash work with just 28 pts. Or someone who buys those packs as they level but doesn't want to pay for 32 pts.

But as I said, it's just a hypothetical exercise. It's fun to see what can be done within certain (admittedly arbitrary and unlikely) constraints. "You need a monk splash for good AC!" has become such a mantra I wanted to see if there was a way around it. Really I think the problem is that AFAIK there is no uber light armor in the game which can trump the Icy Raiments + AC 8 bracers combo.

Fair enough - wouldn't the ViP have the monk?

[Royalties]

Fair enough - wouldn't the ViP have the monk?

Hey what a minute. *Looks at the title. Looks at the post above. Looks at the title. Looks at the most above.*

*Reads slowly* Build experiment - can a dwarf ranger / fighter hit good AC without a monk splash?

hmmmmmmmmmm

[DrNuegebauer]

Hey what a minute. *Looks at the title. Looks at the post above. Looks at the title. Looks at the most above.*

*Reads slowly* Build experiment - can a dwarf ranger / fighter hit good AC without a monk splash?

hmmmmmmmmmm

Hey wait a minute (I think that's what you meant?). *Reads through the whole thread. Looks at your post. Reads through thread again. Looks at your post.*

*Reads slowly* the question was being asked of whom this hypothetical might exist for

hmmmmmmmmmmm

Yep - it was a fair question. Good post mate - keep it up....