What is a Skirmish build?

[sigtrent]

I've started using the term "skirmish build" to describe a particular genre of build that I commonly get requests for, especially from folks wanting to Solo.

The traits of such a build are...
1. It is not a full intim or hate tank
2. It is primarily not a spell caster
3. It trades some DPS optimization for survivability features like self healing, evasion, high saves, self buffing.

Pure ranger actually exemplifies this pretty well although you can build one as a pure DPS if you work at it.

I'd say the advantage of a skirmish build in a party is that you get close to DPS levels of damage output but need to expend fewer resources from support characters to keep them running which can be used to focus on tanks and DPS builds that need those things. They can also operate independently when needed (in situations where party control is lost or when there are "side monsters" to be dealt with while the specialists tackle the main enemy or where a party split is forced in a quest)

I imagine some would simply say such builds are bad, and that you should either be full DPS, Tank, or Support. Some might just call them all DPS. I find there is a special niche for these builds among players that like to be self reliant first and foremost.

[Phidius]

What percentage of a "pure DPS" would you say is needed to qualify as a Skirmish build?

[AcesWylde]

I think my halfling Finesse/Tempest Rogue/Ranger would qualify as a skirmisher. He might not put out as much damage as a strength build, but he's got a high enough AC/attack that he probably almost matches the DPS of other builds by virtue of hitting more often and staying alive longer than some tanks I know. that and his rogue skills, evasion, and self buff/healing, makes him a pretty versatile member of any group, or good for soloing with a pocket cleric.

I wish they would add the Scout class from the Complete Adventurer, the skirmish ability basically adds sneak attack as long as you attack while moving, which I usually do anyway, LOL.

[unbongwah]

By that definition, most of my builds are Skirmishers. I like melee, but pure DPS builds bore me; I need something more to do than just holding down the Attack button. :D So I prefer chars who bring some versatility to the table, whether it's trap skills, buffs, heals, UMD, etc.; and I like the extra survivability that high saves + Evasion offer.

[Yajerman01]

There are many "Skirmish" builds ont he market.

Little Al packs a punch while maintaining all of the above requirements:

12/6/2 Kensai/Tempest/Monk - Halfling

Easy 516/556 HP
UMD 30-35
Saves 36/38/32
AC - 51/84
Dragonmark Heals - Cure-lights (9) between 25-60; Cure Serious (7) 89-160, Heals (5) 240-350
Strength Build dual weilding Khopeshes FTW!

[ddobard1]

The term Skirmisher allows many understandings, but from a historical point of view, the Skirmisher is first of all a very quick light armored Creature who runs ahead of the party at certain times with many purposes, like to defeat the casters, for instance.
The Skirmisher is also valuable for reconnaissance, favors ranged fight, uses hit and run tactics, attacks from covered positions or stealthy mode whenever possible, and gets aggro to split and disrupt the enemy forces. Many other considerations may be done of course.

[sigtrent]

What percentage of a "pure DPS" would you say is needed to qualify as a Skirmish build?

Interesting question. To pick a percentage... I'd say your about 20%-40% short of maximums. (imagine if every build just used masterwork weapons for these comparisons)

For me it really means you at least have one of the DPS weapon styles specked.

Typical shortcomings might be
Less than full Str such as on a finesse build
You are missing one of the weapon style feats
No power attack
No improved crit for a favored weapon
Not taking one of the damage bumping PREs

Now if you do more than 1 or two of those you are probably falling out of my skirmish zone and move into what I tend to call a "support" build.

----- general response -----

All the examples so far fit well into what I'm thinking of. It is kind of hard to say what the bounderies are but generally I know them when I see them. Some builds manage to have the traits you look for in a skirmish build but still be pretty competitive in DPS. The Exploiter is a good example.

[Yajerman01]

Interesting question. To pick a percentage... I'd say your about 20%-40% short of maximums. (imagine if every build just used masterwork weapons for these comparisons)

For me it really means you at least have one of the DPS weapon styles specked.

Typical shortcomings might be
Less than full Str such as on a finesse build
You are missing one of the weapon style feats
No power attack
No improved crit for a favored weapon
Not taking one of the damage bumping PREs

Now if you do more than 1 or two of those you are probably falling out of my skirmish zone and move into what I tend to call a "support" build.

----- general response -----

All the examples so far fit well into what I'm thinking of. It is kind of hard to say what the bounderies are but generally I know them when I see them. Some builds manage to have the traits you look for in a skirmish build but still be pretty competitive in DPS. The Exploiter is a good example.


Hey Sig! I see your in Madborn - what are your Alts?

I think Aluecian falls into your skirmish build IMO

[kingfisher]

The term Skirmisher allows many understandings, but from a historical point of view, the Skirmisher is first of all a very quick light armored Creature who runs ahead of the party at certain times with many purposes, like to defeat the casters, for instance.
The Skirmisher is also valuable for reconnaissance, favors ranged fight, uses hit and run tactics, attacks from covered positions or stealthy mode whenever possible, and gets aggro to split and disrupt the enemy forces. Many other considerations may be done of course.

yeah agile mobile and hostile. self heal a must. does not matter what class really.

[ddobard1]

I don't imagine a Skirmisher as a Character who can self heal, but if you understand that way it's a valid assumption. I build a Skirmisher as a second line striker, with a nice speed to dismantle the monsters positions, like Casters always behind!

[Humperdink]

The term Skirmisher allows many understandings, but from a historical point of view, the Skirmisher is first of all a very quick light armored Creature who runs ahead of the party at certain times with many purposes, like to defeat the casters, for instance.
The Skirmisher is also valuable for reconnaissance, favors ranged fight, uses hit and run tactics, attacks from covered positions or stealthy mode whenever possible, and gets aggro to split and disrupt the enemy forces. Many other considerations may be done of course.

My version of this I play is a WF 12bard/6rgr/2rog. This what he brings to the table as a skirmisher:

-500HP base and can burst above 600HP with many buffs running
-44 UMD buffed offers many utilities and self heal (192pt reconstructs or heals from a scroll)
-60 Concentration max buffed which allows healing through tough combat (hoards of Shavarath Orthons and Devils for example)
-Move and attack fast, Sprint boost from ranger, 15% attack haste boost from rogue, 12 minute 20pt Jump Spell
-Can engage with dual khopshes and power attack or switch to Many Shot as good as many rangers
-Self haste, displacement, and stoneskin
-Gets attention with 58-60 Intimidate and Shield Blocks with a 27-47 Blocking DR
-Can use Move Silently and Invisibility spell to get in close and Fascinate unaware bad guys
-Crowd control with Fascinate and a 55 Perform skill
-Evasion and a 35 buffed Reflex save

[ddobard1]

Nice build, but in my opinion a Skirmisher doesn't look for granting utilities to allies, or to self heal, or to heal during combat, or to Intimidate, or to block foes.
The main function of the Skirmisher is to be capable of piercing monsters lines, with the purpose of disrupt the ofensive and defensive critters' organization! He is also a good soloer!

[Diyon]

I think "skirmisher" might not be the best term here. As far as the OP goes, Solar Phoenix looks like it fits the description pretty well.

[Humperdink]

I think "skirmisher" might not be the best term here. As far as the OP goes, Solar Phoenix looks like it fits the description pretty well.

Sigtrent's original specs are:

"The traits of such a build are...
1. It is not a full intim or hate tank
2. It is primarily not a spell caster
3. It trades some DPS optimization for survivability features like self healing, evasion, high saves, self buffing."

1. I'm not a full intimitank I only buff up to about 60 Intimidate which is enough for most scenarios including raid bosses on normal. I don't have the 79 needed to get everything in the game.

2. I'm primarily not a caster, I only cast to buff and then fight.

3. I have reasonable DPS, but definitely not top tier. I can self heal, have evasion, reasonable saves (some higher than others, 35 reflex is enough for Epic content), and definitely have self buffing.

Seems like I generally fit what Sigtrent laid out.

[sigtrent]

Hey Sig! I see your in Madborn - what are your Alts?

I think Aluecian falls into your skirmish build IMO

Sigfried Trent
Seablade <The one you would recognize most and a skirmish build if ever there was>
Lignimortis
Avenos
Fuzgut
Kurzun
Gabriazar

Then the ones you wouldn't see much due to their level
Valeron
Mindilla
Normax
Breakstrong
Hottypants
Valectrix