Reavers Refuge Suggestion

[Khanyth]

First off, no... I am not talking about getting rid of the lottery. But this is a way to make it less painful.

Currently, the bonus when you beat Sorjek is a Sovereign rune, which is perhaps the worst possible end reward, because you can run Prey on the Hunter 3 times and grind together 3 Tempest runes to make one. Furthermore, to get your Dragon touched armour, you don't even need to beat Sorjek to get it.

Here are the changes that I propose:

1. Do not have the end reward being 50 draconic runes. Rather, make it a weapon/armor/item like every non-raid quest is.

2. Make DT armor drop from a chest that drops when you kill Sorjek. This actually gives you motivation to kill him. I've ran SoS numerous times but never have killed him. Why? Because there's no point. There's no motivation or end reward worth it. Keep that dude who sells it, but just don't let him sell DT armor

Some of you may like those 2... but I guarantee that some of you will LOVE this one:

3. Another option to the chest that drops when you kill Sorjek is a Rune of Clarity (or name it whatever) Using this rune and combining it with a unknown eldritch/tempest/sovereign rune will reveal the runes's abilities. Because SoS is somewhat difficult to flag for, this won't be abused as much. This way, once you get your DT armour, SoS becomes desirable to run again, for these Clarity Runes.

This is another option:

3b. For those people who think that #3 is too harsh, make an option that once you've beaten Sorjek, that dude who sells essences and armour can also sell this Rune of Clarity... for 500 draconic runes or some amount high enough to make it worth your while running SoS.


Whatcha think?

[dkyle]

1. Do not have the end reward being 50 draconic runes. Rather, make it a weapon/armor/item like every non-raid quest is.

2. Make DT armor drop from a chest that drops when you kill Sorjek. This actually gives you motivation to kill him. I've ran SoS numerous times but never have killed him. Why? Because there's no point. There's no motivation or end reward worth it. Keep that dude who sells it, but just don't let him sell DT armor

So now we get to grind grind grind for the armor in addition to the runes? No thanks.

And why would you run SoS without killing Sor'jek? It takes like 20 mins at least to get through the quest, then 5 or ten to kill him. You're not running three preys in 5 or 10 minutes.


Some of you may like those 2... but I guarantee that some of you will LOVE this one:

3. Another option to the chest that drops when you kill Sorjek is a Rune of Clarity (or name it whatever) Using this rune and combining it with a unknown eldritch/tempest/sovereign rune will reveal the runes's abilities. Because SoS is somewhat difficult to flag for, this won't be abused as much. This way, once you get your DT armour, SoS becomes desirable to run again, for these Clarity Runes.

That won't help with finding the right rune to begin with. And identifying runes, on average, takes twice as long as acquiring a rune, as you can can wait till they stack, apply one, and save the other if you like what it is.

Identifying an eldritch or tempest rune with the product of a Sor'jek kill is a waste of time. Identifying sovereigns is barely useful as well. Just buy new armor when you find a rune you like.


3b. For those people who think that #3 is too harsh, make an option that once you've beaten Sorjek, that dude who sells essences and armour can also sell this Rune of Clarity... for 500 draconic runes or some amount high enough to make it worth your while running SoS.

Ridiculously expensive. Make it 25 draconics and it starts to make sense from a time per rune perspective.

[Khanyth]

Rebuttals, not attacks:

1. You can get draconic runes from the explorer area chests... so it's not as hard as you think.

2. You're already grinding for tempest/eldritch runes anyways, so it's not as hard either.

3. I don't know what you do, but every time I have done SoS, it did take 45 minutes. Without killing Sorjek. My point is that there is no point to killing him, regardless of time.

4. It takes me 10 minutes to run Prey, so yes, I am doing 3 Prey runs in the same time 30 minutes timeframe that you suggest it takes to do SoS

5. While I do agree with this part, somewhat:

That won't help with finding the right rune to begin with. And identifying runes, on average, takes twice as long as acquiring a rune, as you can can wait till they stack, apply one, and save the other if you like what it is.

the Rune of Clarity can help with this process.

I'm not making this idea out to be the be-all-end-all, but rather a viable addition to the system that is here to stay.

[woundweaver]

i want to see the lottery gone. or at the least, once you equip it once, you can identify their attribute from then on. that would promote trading in the chests. if i see i have a ooze guard rune in the chest(because ive equipped an ooze guard rune once before, so i can identify any after), and i dont need it, i can trade it to the rogue who wants it for his greater potency rune that i want.
or make something to identify items with in game, much like the pnp version. either way

[Angelus_dead]

Currently, the bonus when you beat Sorjek is a Sovereign rune, which is perhaps the worst possible end reward, because you can run Prey on the Hunter 3 times and grind together 3 Tempest runes to make one.
Well, the reason that Prey 3x is better than SOS once is because SOS requires reflagging through three different quests. If the reflagging for SOS were removed like it should be, then SOS would become a more efficient use of time.

(If Sib/Eb/Kyb Essences would stack in an ingredients bag then reflagging wouldn't be as time-consuming, because people who get into a good group farming one of the three quests can collect several of that Essences and be done with needing it for a while)

Anyway, Eladrin has already announced that the next patch will allow players to split a Sovereign down into pieces. So go ahead and make suggestions, but be aware that the system is already going to change.

[NehemiahScudder]

You don't need to run the quests to re-flag. You just need 75 draconic runes.

Which, you'll have. Let's face it, people are running prey around 100 times to get their armor. You'll have draconic runes out the wazoo.

[Angelus_dead]

Which, you'll have. Let's face it, people are running prey around 100 times to get their armor. You'll have draconic runes out the wazoo.
Actually that's not true. It can only apply to people who are working on making DT armor, which does not necessarily cover the whole party you'd want for SOS. Some characters decided they don't want to wear DT.

That is, if you're forming a group for Prey you can invite anyone who's high enough level and who has the adventure pack, and they can go help you beat the dungeon. The people who join might be working on their own DT armor, or they might just come along to be helpful or earn XP and Toothpicks.

But if you're forming an SOS group, then just because a powerful character has the pack and is willing to help you doesn't mean he can zone into the dungeon. He'd need to be flagged as well, which he hasn't necessarily repeated after his last SOS run.

The need to reflag is a serious obstacle to forming groups for SOS, and one which no other DDO dungeon suffers from.

[Ranmaru2]

You don't need to run the quests to re-flag. You just need 75 draconic runes.

If you're just starting to get to the refuge, it's 100 runes after your first run of the 3 quests and getting the 3 gems in order to get flagged for SoS on the spot again. Unless you've got a lot of Prey essences and just buy the khyber and siberys essences after SoS is over.

I don't really mind running kobold and monastery, but running prey the same number of times is something I won't do, considering the transition from Prey to SoS makes no sense at all. You save dragon, then dragon is dead...wait did I miss something in the intermission?????

[NehemiahScudder]

The reason they set it up like this, is they want SOS to be moderately farmed. Personally, I don't see any incentive to running SOS more than one time on normal.

Come to think of it. Maybe not having to buy essences would be a good deal. Just replace it with a 3 day timer.

[dkyle]

1. You can get draconic runes from the explorer area chests... so it's not as hard as you think.

Sure, but it still takes time. On average, a Monastary run is equal to an identified eldritch rune. How much grinding rares is it going to take to get 500 draconics to identify a single rune?


2. You're already grinding for tempest/eldritch runes anyways, so it's not as hard either.

So it's OK because it's only a little more grind? We should be looking to reduce DT grind, not increase it, not even a little.


3. I don't know what you do, but every time I have done SoS, it did take 45 minutes. Without killing Sorjek. My point is that there is no point to killing him, regardless of time.

4. It takes me 10 minutes to run Prey, so yes, I am doing 3 Prey runs in the same time 30 minutes timeframe that you suggest it takes to do SoS

My point was just that the bulk of that time is the quest itself. Why would you do the quest, then not kill Sor'jek? At that point it's ten minutes at most to get a sov, vs 30 to run prey 3 times.

3 Preys is less time than SoS + Sor'jek
3 Preys is more time than Sor'jek himself.


I'm not making this idea out to be the be-all-end-all, but rather a viable addition to the system that is here to stay.

I'd suggest making the Sov runes in Sor'jek's chest come pre-identified, and have a drop rate proportional to difficulty. Something like guaranteed on elite, 3/4 on hard, 1/2 on normal, 1/4 on casual. That way there's encouragement to run SoS on the hardest setting, with a full group, to maximize rune trading potential.



I don't really mind running kobold and monastery, but running prey the same number of times is something I won't do, considering the transition from Prey to SoS makes no sense at all. You save dragon, then dragon is dead...wait did I miss something in the intermission?????

Just do the "kill her and her husband" optional each time, and you'll maintain the storyline.

[Angelus_dead]

Come to think of it. Maybe not having to buy essences would be a good deal. Just replace it with a 3 day timer.
One old suggestion is that characters can reflag either by paying esseneces or waiting on a 3 day timer. (One essence would take one day off the timer, etc)

[Khanyth]

Some reflections:

1. I didn't want to easy-button this whole area... I like the lottery and the grind. I know about the stacking rune issue that helps you figure what rune you have... I just thought that the Rune of Clarity idea would help speed the process up enough to help people without making the process too easy and nerfed. I think it's a fine compromise that would keep the area running and reduce the grind somewhat.

2. I think they need to do something better with Sorjek. IMHO, only getting a sovereign rune from him isn't worth it at all, since you can very easily grind 3 tempest. Give him some loot too. And yes, the Rune of Clarity.