The Soul Survivor (WF FvS20 Healer/Melee DPS/Threat Tank hybrid)

[sirgog]

Just to clarify: This is NOT a beginner build. Repeat, this is NOT a beginner's build. It will, however, function well in the hands of a beginner if they play it in a 'healbot' role.

Also, this build simply would not work as a half-orc. The main reasons it is a Warforged are for the extra HP, for the extra DR, and for the Greatsword proficiency and melee bonuses - a halforc gets almost none of those.

Edit: Changed the ultimate gear setup in post 28, below. I've left the pre-Update 6 gear list intact, but feel the post Update 6 list in post 28 is far stronger. It's also far harder to complete, with multiple epic items, including some very coveted ones.

Edit: Updated the gear setup once more, see post 284. Definitely a better overall list; Epic Envenomed Cloak really helps fix a build weakness, low saves.

Favored Souls don't just make excellent healers. They are incredibly survivable - with good saves, inherent DR as a capstone ability, and the best elemental resists available.

The Soul Survivor attempts to be at endgame what the pure Paladin is during the first eight levels - a character that can heal themselves and others, that is very difficult to kill due to multiple forms of damage mitigation, that can establish, hold and survive the aggro of the toughest foes. It's a character that can fill almost any role in a raid.

Edit - This thread was first posted some time ago. Some of the comments were more suited to the way the game was played a few months ago - I'll update this thread (or restart it) sometime in the future. Until then, it will show its age with things like the assumption that Shadowfiends would get onto the altar in ToD part 2, etc.

This build has solohealed Elite Shroud, maintanked Horoth in normal ToD, and maintanked Suulomades in elite VoD. In the Horoth encounter, I was able to look after my own healing while tanking Horoth for the entire period Suulomades was alive (I had other arcane and divine casters heal me before Suulo popped and after he was slain). In the elite VoD, I was able to provide urgent heals to people during the second Orthon phase, and also spam mass cures during the suicide-bomber-bat phase. Also just maintanked the Demon of the Deep in Into the Depths Epic after we realised we'd not brought along any traditional 'tanks'. That thing hits like a truck, but we got it done. I was healing myself and the party all the time.


The goals of this build:

1) Healing. They should be capable of solohealing an Elite Shroud without mana potions. Assumption - sturdy melees, and a mediocre but acceptable total party damage output of 1500 damage per second.
2) Damage. They should be capable of doing enough melee DPS to pull their weight filling a melee role in any raid on Elite or Epic (they need not be an all-star, but they must pull their weight).
3) Tanking. They should be capable of acting as the primary threat tank on Horoth, Suulomades or any other quest or raid boss with 'standard' aggro except mariliths, without putting undue resource strain on healers. Even better if they can still throw emergency heals on themselves and others while doing so.
4) Soloing. They should be able to solo tough endgame quests such as Elite Sins of Attrition, Elite A New Invasion, and future high-level content.


What the WF FvS 20 platform brings toward these goals:

Healing: The Mass Heal spell, at full effectiveness, as well as the single-target Heal and up to four different Mass Cure spells, plus extreme survivability.
Melee DPS: FvS Lord of Blades Greatsword enhancements, and (depending on whether you can afford to sacrifice the To-Hit) WF Power Attack enhancements.
Threat Tanking: Enhanced threat generation (through WF Brute Fighting 4 and careful choice of gear), significant incoming healing amplification (100% incoming healing from arcanes, and 99-163% from divines, depending on the availability of guild ship buffs, paladin past lives, and access to gear) and significant damage mitigation (DR 13 against melee attacks, 55 Fire Resist, 55 Electrical Resist, 40 Cold Resist and reasonable saves). Extraordinary hitpoints for a divine caster. Plus, mediocre UMD for additional damage mitigation through Fire Shield scrolls.
Soloing:Wings, Deathpact, extraordinary self healing and a weak but still situationally powerful Bladebarrier.
Note - this build really does rely upon the purchased Warforged race and the hard-to-unlock Favored Soul class. It can be built as a Dwarven or Human Clr18/Ftr2, and such a build has its advantages, but will lose the threat tanking ability almost totally.


The Soul Survivor build:

Race: Warforged
Class split: FvS 20
Initial stats (34 point build; these include racial modifiers): 18 Str (plus all level ups), 8 Dex, 18 Con, 10 Int, 6 Wis, 12 Cha. 28/32 point builds sacrifice some Strength, 36 point builds can splash out on another skill by upping Int by 2.
Best past lives: Paladin, Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, Monk (all five have excellent passive past life feats that will improve this character - for the ranger, it's just the stacking energy resistance not the ranged damage). Paladins in particular are likely to be able to pass you down some bound loot that will work very well for you, and have arguably the best past life passive for this build.
Skills: Max Concentration and UMD. Put leftover points (acquired by eating a +2 Int tome at level 7) into Balance. Jump is better than UMD while levelling, but you will have a capped Jump skill at endgame by just using Morah's Belt. UMD allows Fire Shield and Teleport scrolls.
Feats: Empower Healing, Extend Spell, Toughness, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell, Power Attack, Improved Critical: Slashing (and that's not an unreasonable order to select them in). Optionally: Drop Extend Spell for Adamantine Body.
FvS deity choice: Lord of Blades
FvS Resist feats: Fire, Cold, Electrical (if you want to min-max for tanking Horoth, select Sonic in place of Cold, but Cold is more useful generally)
Enhancements:
Survivability/Tanking-oriented:
WF Constitution 2 (6 AP)
FvS Toughness 4 (10 AP)
WF Toughness 4 (10 AP)
WF Healer's Friend 3 (12 AP - this one is expensive, but has a huge impact on how easily scroll-healed you are in raids - and a threat tank that is easy to scrollheal leads to a cheap run)
WF Brute Fighting 4 (10 AP - keep this on a hotbar, and remember to turn it off when you do not want aggro)
WF Damage Reduction 3 (12 AP)
Healing oriented:
FvS Life Magic 4 (10 AP)
FvS Energy of the Scion 1 (1 AP, required to fill a progression gap)
FvS Capstone (2 AP, grants you enough Charisma for Disjunction-proof Heal)
FvS Scroll Mastery 1 (1 AP - be warned, not having a higher rank here hurts you as a tank healer in raid situations, but I've been able to heal elite ToD and epic DQ2 without it)
Melee DPS oriented:
FvS Greatsword Specialisation 2 (3 AP)
WF Power Attack 2 (3 AP, if you aren't running Epics and thus don't care about To-Hit, take more of this if you can, if you run exclusively Epics, drop this for FvS Attack Boost)


Spell Selection:
This is a list of spells you *must* carry at endgame. Other spell slots can be chosen as desired. While leveling, always carry at least two good healing spells.
I recommend carrying *all* four Mass Cures. Sometimes, you just need to put out extreme AoE healing, and the four spells are all on separate cooldowns. This is most important in the Nytharios encounter, where you should be able to heal sturdy melees through proximity to two Shadowfiends. However, the most important two are the ones with the shortest cooldowns, IMO.
Also, I'm forgetful. Some critical spells are no doubt missing from here.
1 - Divine Favor
2 - Resist Elements
3 - Prayer (when it is fixed - this spell isn't absolutely critical, but it's a somewhat worthwhile raidbuff). Remove Curse (sometimes you need to throw a quickened one)
4 - Divine Power, Death Ward (if not carrying the Mass version), Freedom of Movement
5 - Raise Dead (only one you can cast Disjuncted prior to earning a +3 tome), Mass Cure Light
6 - Heal, Bladebarrier, Mass Cure Moderate
7 - Resurrection (can be replaced with True Resurrection, I keep all three raise spells)
8 - Mass Deathward (the level 4 version is a weak, but borderline acceptable replacement), Holy Aura (this spell is incredibly powerful since it was changed to blind all foes within a Haste radius at the time you cast it, no save but SR applies)
9 - Mass Heal

Gear to aspire towards: Edit - see post 284, this list has been changed - I've left the pre-Update 6 list intact below and the Update 6 list in post 28, but the list in post 284 is far better.
Weapons:
General purpose DPS: Lightning 2 (Holy Shocking Burst Shocking Blast) Greatsword or Epic Sword of Shadows (both are excellent on DR 15 raid bosses like normal Horoth/Suulo/Harry, and passable on DR 25 bosses like their hard versions). If Lit 2, put at least one Adamantine Ritual on it, Greensteel Greatswords are squishier than most drow rangers.
Universal DR breaker: Mineral 2 (Holy Acid Burst Acid Blast) Quarterstaff or Maul - the best weapon in the suite for 35 DR Elite pit fiends, Lailat if you ever melee her, Lich Sor'Jek, Black Abbot, Epic Raiyum, Epic Clay Golems and more. You aren't proficient with Mauls, so you will need to turn Power Attack off in some situations due to to-hit penalties. The Maul is better in non-Epic situations, the quarterstaff is probably better in Epics.
Utility DPS: Triple Positive (Holy Goodblast 30% Healing Amp) Greatsword - your weapon of choice while soloing.

Armor:
Dragontouched Docent, 10% Healing Amp, 20% Healing Amp, Incite 20%
Other Sovereign Runes may be worth considering too - Disintegration Guard, Destruction, Radiance Guard, and possibly others. Incite remains the best choice. (If you go with the Epic Ring of Baphomet setup, replace Healing Amp with Incite 15%).

Rings:
First option:
Slot 1: Encrusted Ring, imbued with +2 exceptional Strength
Slot 2: Switch as appropriate between Warchanter's Band imbued with Greater Devotion 8 and any +6 Cha ToD ring imbued with +2 Exceptional Constitution. (Don't roll on a ring that is the perfect ring for someone else in your raid just for the Con +2, that's mean!). Alternately, if you want to reduce item switching, go Con +2 on your Warchanter's Band.
Second option:
Slot 1: Epic Ring of Baphomet, augmented with any useful +1 exceptional stat (you might change which stat as you obtain new and better tomes, happy Epic token farming)
Slot 2: Encrusted Ring, imbued with 20% Healing Amplification (frees up the DT Tempest slot for 15% Incite, happy Refuge grinding)

Belt:
Knost's Belt should reside in your belt slot most of the time. When the situation calls for it, switch in various clickies, the most important being Amara's Belt, Tokala's Belt, Morah's Belt and the Planar Gird. (It sucks to remove your only source of Greater False Life to use a clicky, but you have the HP to spare).

Amulet:
Generally, keep Torin's Choker in this slot (primarily so Superior Potency 6 is always boosting your Heal spell and the occasional Bladebarrier). Situationally switch to Torc of Raiyum, Golden Cartouche, Silver Flame Necklace, or a Shroud-crafted tanking item. Don't bother epic-ifying the Torc, others need that shard far, far more than you do.

Bracers:
Permanently equip one of your main Shroud-crafted items here. This itemisation may change with Update 6, as it is suspected that the second piece of the Greater Vulkoor's Wrath set fills this item slot.

Cloak:
Permanently equip one of your main Shroud-crafted items here.

Boots:
Switch between a Shroud-crafted item, Boots of Anchoring, and in extremely rare situations, Madstone Boots. If you are invited to a group to play a healer role, never use the Madstone Boots in that group.

Gloves:
The ideal item here is Update 6's Epic Gloves of the Claw, which provide 30% healing amplification on their own (this effect alone is worth the item slot), as well as some effects that do not benefit this character's gear setup. (Epic) Spectral Gloves are also worthwhile to offset the to-hit penalty of Power Attack. I personally use Epic Spectrals with a +1 exceptional Con, which pushes my Con up a bracket due to me having eaten a +3 Con tome.

Trinket:
Switch between (Epic) Bloodstone and Epic Dragon's Eye, as appropriate. Consider augmenting with +4 saves. Litany of the Dead may also fit well, depending upon your equipment.

Helmet:
Minos Legens at present. Looking to replace this.

Goggles:
Tharne's Goggles when playing a melee DPS role. A Shroud-crafted tanking item for tanking situations.

Shroud-crafted items:
There's a lot of items listed here, and as such you will need a lot of cleansing stones to optimize this build. Only the HP item is truly necessary for the build to function. But, if this build becomes your main, you can continue to improve its performance by grinding even more Shrouds (/vomit).

For wearing 'all-day, every day':
Conc-Opp 10/15/20 HP item
SP item (A useful resist 30, 50 SP, 100 SP, with a useful synergy effect - I have this crafted as Smoke with Resist Fire 30, were I to redo it, it would be made as Lightning Strike Guard with resist lightning 30 on the bottom tier to get +5 UMD, or as Disintegration Guard with immunity to blindness on the bottom tier)

Other utility items to consider:
Radiance Guard Fire Resist Item: Either Resist Fire 30/Greater Healing Lore/Resist Fire +10, or Healing Lore/Resist Fire +5/Resist Fire +10 (useful for bosses that spam Fire spells, like most of them)
Lightning Strike Guard Resist Item: As the last one, but Lightning not Fire (if you make both, use a good guard instead of the second Healing Lore effect)
Corrosive Salt Cold Resist Item: Blindness Immunity/Resist Cold +5/Resist Cold +10, or Resist Cold 30/Fear Immunity/Resist Cold +10 (both are exceptional on Lich Sor'Jek, allowing you to safely attack through a Risia mephit shield even on Elite; this is likely to be useful if we ever get to battle The Truthful One in the future)
Crushing Wave Guard Cold Resist Item: Cold Resist 30/+5/+10 - variant on the previous item, with a weaker guard but the full undispellable 45 Cold Resist


Playtips:

Low level (1-11):
Playing a healing-capable class at low level is great practice for higher level play. Group often, both in quality groups and in bad PUGs. Learn when to fight and when to hide in the back lines and heal. Practice your healing reflexes. Learn to quickly identify the squishy players in the group. You aren't optimized as a healbot, but you certainly can play a healbot role when that's what a party needs.
Aim to obtain Moderate Fortification as quickly as you can, and once you have it, aim to control aggro - you want mobs attacking you while the party is at high health, and attacking others when one or more members need a heal. But most of all, get practice throwing instant-reaction heals. You can't heal stupid, and you can't heal 6 Con 0 Fort rogues, but trying to do so will make you better at healing those that can be healed. Make sure to join a PUG Tempest's Spine elite run to put your skills to the test. If you can carry a bad PUG group to success, you have started well.

Mid level (12-16):
Here, you can start to solo more quickly, as even your low-DC Bladebarriers will rip the low-HP mobs of these levels to shreds. If you are not TRed from a Shroud-geared toon, challenge yourself by trying to solo Orchard quests. If you are Shroud-geared due to being TRed, challenge yourself by inviting five other players into Orchard quests and trying to complete them.
Amuse yourself by noting that, in most PUGs, you have the highest hitpoints, most damage mitigation, best DPS, and are also the sole healer.
Turn Empower Healing off for most of the time during these levels. It drains SP, only to make your Heal spell overheal. Don't worry, this feat will become good again.
In groups, work out just how low you can let someone get in HP before they need a heal. Often the Wizard at 60% health is at more immediate risk of death than the Barbarian that is at 25%. Sometimes, the TR'ed Wizard at 25% is less likely to die than the newbie, 0 fortification Barbarian that is at 60%.
Carry Heal scrolls.
Learn to 'twitch fight' - moving to interrupt your attack chain, in order to make the quicker attacks at the beginning of the chain. Note that twitching costs you all of the benefits of Glancing Blows, and gives you penalties to attack rolls. It's usually worth the tradeoff.
If you are TRed and have a hand-me-down Shroud weapon that isn't perfect for your new life, use it! A Radiance 2 Falchion is far better in your hands than anything you will find while levelling.
Start working on getting a Sword of Shadows (to Epic-ify), and a Torc.

High level (17-19):
Wings, baby!
Get flagged for all of the main raids, and run them as often as you can. Don't try to take central roles in Elite runs, but don't be afraid to soloheal Shroud Normal, or to threat tank VoD normal. (Many players won't believe you can threat tank VoD, don't worry, heal their run, you'll get other chances).
Get the feel of wings. It takes a while to learn exactly how they work and how to control them.
Turn Quicken Spell on. Never turn it off, except to buff, or when you have an extremely compelling reason.
Practice the timing of Mass Heal. It's your single best spell, but it takes serious practice to learn to use in battle.
These levels can be zoomed through by running nothing but easy content (IQ/DD, Refuge Normal, Orchard/GH elite, Vale Hard, Amrath casual). Resist that urge and instead try to run things that really challenge you, so that when you hit 20, you know how to play the toon. Try to complete all of the Vale and Refuge on Elite (inluding the raids and SoS if you can find a group) and all of Amrath on Hard.
Try to solo Sins of Attrition on Normal and Hard, A New Invasion on Normal and Devil Assault on Elite. If and when you die, ask 'how could I have prevented that death?'. The answer is probably either 'by having Displacement' or 'by having 40 Jump', so get a Morah's Belt and consider making Shroud Displacement clickies.

Endgame (20):
Test out your newfound DR by soloing quests you'd have been hesitant to run at 19 even in a solid PUG - Sins of Attrition Elite, A New Invasion Hard (elite if you have excellent DR-breaking weapons and a bunch of mana pots, Barnzidu's regeneration is a killer though). Turn Empower Healing back on and never turn it off.
Practice running the easier Epics to learn when you can melee and when you must stand back and heal. Try to take the aggro of quest bosses. Craft more Shroud items.
Learn when *not* to twitch. Sometimes, the attack bonus you lose twitching is more important than the extra attacks you gain from doing it.
Figure out when you *want* aggro and when you do not want aggro.
Earn Yugoloth potions. Become addicted to them.
Have fun.


That's the concept and build of the Soul Survivor. I TR'ed Numot~Khyber, my Clr18/Ftr2 longtime main into this build, and have noticed an enormous increase in survivability - I went from 561hp standing to 607, take 13 less damage per melee hit, 40 less damage per Meteor Swarm, and of course have Wings to escape many dangerous situations.

Ultimately, the Soul Survivor brings the following to the raid: 90% of the healing capacity of a complete healbot, 70% of the melee DPS of a 'traditional' melee build, the ability to threat tank, and an array of tricks that just might save the day.

[Carpone]

Consider Epic Chainmail Coif in any melee FvS buildout:

* I'm not a fan of Greater Devotion 8 on a ToD ring. It offers too little compared to other options. Plus as a tank, you'd rather have +2 CON or +20% healing amp here.
* Amrath clickies aren't viable if you're tanking. You never want to stop generating threat as a tank, and swapping out 90 HPs (6 CON, GFL) is asking for trouble. You need a dedicated Devotion item.
* Devotion 9 is very nice, considering your only level 9 spell is Mass Heal.
* Superior Potency necks conflict with ToD melee sets.

Of course the problem here is where do you put Toughness and Heavy Fortification when you replace Minos Legens? If the Epic Bracers of the Claw are released as spoiled so far, then that's a no brainer for Heavy Fortification. Toughness is difficult to replace due to the severe shortage of docents available with blue augments.

[sirgog]

Consider Epic Chainmail Coif in any melee FvS buildout:

* I'm not a fan of Greater Devotion 8 on a ToD ring. It offers too little compared to other options. Plus as a tank, you'd rather have +2 CON or +20% healing amp here.
* Amrath clickies aren't viable if you're tanking. You never want to stop generating threat as a tank, and swapping out 90 HPs (6 CON, GFL) is asking for trouble. You need a dedicated Devotion item.
* Devotion 9 is very nice, considering your only level 9 spell is Mass Heal.
* Superior Potency necks conflict with ToD melee sets.

Of course the problem here is where do you put Toughness and Heavy Fortification when you replace Minos Legens? If the Epic Bracers of the Claw are released as spoiled so far, then that's a no brainer for Heavy Fortification. Toughness is difficult to replace due to the severe shortage of docents available with blue augments.

The Epic Coif is amazing, and its existence had totally slipped my mind. It definitely should be in.

I had Greater Devotion 8 on as the ring effect you would wear 'most of the time'. In a tanking situation, it comes off for exceptional Con +2. While tanking, the size of your heals isn't very important - you are more concerned with getting people from near-death to relative safety at perhaps 40% hp - someone else can throw them a heal a couple of seconds later to get them to 100%.

The Epic Dragon's Eye also works in tanking situations where you need to respond to specific boss attacks - equip it in place of the Bloodstone for a second, use the clicky, then cycle Mass Cures as required.

Amrath Sup Ardor 8 belts can be used in combat, but not in intense combats. If you can anticipate the intense combats, you can hit the clicky before the fight gets crazy, then reequip the Knost's Belt.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Sirgog, can you confirm that the Warforged Brute Fighting does in fact work, and tell me how it stacks with other sources of extra Hate?

Thanks.

[sirgog]

Sirgog, can you confirm that the Warforged Brute Fighting does in fact work, and tell me how it stacks with other sources of extra Hate?

Thanks.

I'm pretty sure it works (I held aggro against a Min2 equipped 20 Kensai at 17, with no Incite yet). As for how it stacks, my gut guess is multiplicatively, but I do not know.

[aristarchus1000]

Nicely done sirgog.

I'm in the process of leveling up a WF FvS, although I have still struggled with the fact that I didn't think I would do enough damage at 20 to maintain aggro and take advantage of my DR. It hadn't occurred to me to try hate-tanking. It's not that different from previous builds other than using hate-tanking, but it is definitely a spin I haven't thought of before.

You mentioned the Kensai, and I realize you haven't capped yet. Have you maintanked VoD for example? That would be impressive. Any other anecdotal stories of maintanking? especially with well geared peers?

Anyway interesting stuff. I'm just leveling mine up right now and I guess I'll see how to tweak it at the end.

[sirgog]

Nicely done sirgog.

I'm in the process of leveling up a WF FvS, although I have still struggled with the fact that I didn't think I would do enough damage at 20 to maintain aggro and take advantage of my DR. It hadn't occurred to me to try hate-tanking. It's not that different from previous builds other than using hate-tanking, but it is definitely a spin I haven't thought of before.

You mentioned the Kensai, and I realize you haven't capped yet. Have you maintanked VoD for example? That would be impressive. Any other anecdotal stories of maintanking? especially with well geared peers?

Anyway interesting stuff. I'm just leveling mine up right now and I guess I'll see how to tweak it at the end.

I tanked VoD on normal at level 17 and held aggro fine. Brute Fighting is really noticeable, and in both of the main threat tank encounters (VoD and ToD), the other melees beat on the boss about 60-80% of the time and on trash the remaining time (some groups use different strategies, but that's been my preferred approach for a long time).

[jadenkorr]

Very nice build. Rolled one up to try it out myself, loving it so far.

How would you compare this build's DPS to your 18 Clr/2 Ftr? Also, do you find yourself missing radiant servant, as its one of the few things that affect heal and mass heal?

[sirgog]

Very nice build. Rolled one up to try it out myself, loving it so far.

How would you compare this build's DPS to your 18 Clr/2 Ftr? Also, do you find yourself missing radiant servant, as its one of the few things that affect heal and mass heal?

DPS compared to Clr18/Ftr2 - you gain some minor 'always-on' FvS buffs, possibly lose one Str bracket (from Fighter Strength 1), and lose Fighter Haste Boost 1. Overall - I'd guess this version has about 98% of the DPS of the past life. I don't mind losing 2% DPS for 1000 more mana and all the FvS defensive abilities.

Radiant Servant is more of a loss. The Aura, whilst astounding in easy content, does little at endgame, but the 1/6 increase to (empowered) Heal, Mass Heal and the 10% increase to (max-empped) Mass Cures is quite a loss and makes me a less effective tank healer in Epic Lailat. If max player hitpoints increase significantly in future, this will be a bigger deal than it is now - at present endgame HP totals, it's only a big loss on low healing amp WF barbarians.

Still, the 1000 extra SP more than makes up for the slight reduction in burst healing capacity, particularly as most of my guild runs of ToD part 2 (the most important burst healing fight in game) use a modified strategy where there are more protections against Shadows getting on the stage.

[AylinIsAwesome]

What other slots can you put incite on? I notice you have it on your Sovereign rune, but grinding Stealer of Souls for a rune that may-or-may-not be the right one does not seem to be extremely...fun.

Looking at the AP set-up on my WF, I could easily pick up Brute Fighting 3, though I doubt 4 unless I dropped HP or something.

[Zodh]

Numot, you prolly remember me - Zodh :)

Two weeks ago i've started almost the same build, but with high wisdom for DC's, now i'm getting some raid gear + GS, and TR into low-wisdom. I fugred, either I have high DC's like non-melee-high-wisdom healers, or don't have them at all.

Anyways, just wanted to say hi and support this amazing build. Very easy to level (especially DUO with an experienced caster that can keep your haste ;P ) and fun to play.

[sirgog]

Going to get a chance to test the build out tanking Horoth on the weekend (just on Normal). Looking forward to it. Still chasing a few items, and thinking exactly how to redo gear to fit in the Claw set.

[Sanguine_J3S3]

What is the difference of this build and mellkor's FvS Lord of Blades Healer/Buffer/Fighter.
Same build with very minor(really very minor: 16 str vs 18 str, jump vs umd) differences http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=211596

[sirgog]

What is the difference of this build and mellkor's FvS Lord of Blades Healer/Buffer/Fighter.
Same build with very minor(really very minor: 16 str vs 18 str, jump vs umd) differences http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=211596

The biggest difference is the emphasis on increased threat generation from gear and enhancements, which allows this build to establish and hold aggro in raid boss fights (both builds can easily survive aggro). This comes at the price of lower saves than Mellkor's build has.

This makes the builds play quite differently in certain raids, particularly VoD and ToD.

[sirgog]

Just ran a very FvS intensive Tower of Despair on this guy, and played the role of primary Horoth tank.

Never came close to death or losing aggro (although I did have to get the extremely geared barbarian to throttle their DPS in the first phase of the fight). When Suulo popped, I stayed solo on Horoth, healing myself while the other 11 took Suulo down.

Looking forward to trying Hard and maybe even Elite later.

[domecek1]

Hehe, gj, man. You still havent your eSOS and can handle this? pretty impresive

[Bacab]

Heyas Sirgog...really like this build.

I currently have a level 20 WF FVS named Zweihander...anyway I really like the idea of threat tanking on him.

I will be TRing my guy pretty soon and my feats will be slightly different from yours and stats etc etc. Overall though, I love how you built yours and I really like how you fleshed out the gear slots.

One thing I noticed though was you pointing out you have not found a replacement for Minos and Toughness.

Here is my idea...I was going to go with a the Quori Battle Docent that would be unlocked. That would give me 6 CON...Superior False Life and Toughness. This would free up my helm for a Shroud HP item that will also be either lightning strike or Disentegration Guard.

Anyway, what are your thoughts of this combo.

I currently full-time my Torc and I have a 10 hp 50 sp 100 sp Concord Opp Cloak. So on my Helm I was looking at the following set-ups...

Blindness Ward + 15 HP +20 HP +Disentegration Gaurd +5 CON Skills
*or
Greater Lightning resitance + 15 HP +20 HP + Lightning Strike Gaurd + 2 CON Skills + 3 DEX Skills
*or
Greater Acid Resistance +15 HP +20 HP + Elemental Mastery +11 Balance +3 Saves +3 AC + 2 DEX Skills +3 STR SKills

[sirgog]

Heyas Sirgog...really like this build.

I currently have a level 20 WF FVS named Zweihander...anyway I really like the idea of threat tanking on him.

I will be TRing my guy pretty soon and my feats will be slightly different from yours and stats etc etc. Overall though, I love how you built yours and I really like how you fleshed out the gear slots.

One thing I noticed though was you pointing out you have not found a replacement for Minos and Toughness.

Here is my idea...I was going to go with a the Quori Battle Docent that would be unlocked. That would give me 6 CON...Superior False Life and Toughness. This would free up my helm for a Shroud HP item that will also be either lightning strike or Disentegration Guard.

Anyway, what are your thoughts of this combo.

I currently full-time my Torc and I have a 10 hp 50 sp 100 sp Concord Opp Cloak. So on my Helm I was looking at the following set-ups...

Blindness Ward + 15 HP +20 HP +Disentegration Gaurd +5 CON Skills
*or
Greater Lightning resitance + 15 HP +20 HP + Lightning Strike Gaurd + 2 CON Skills + 3 DEX Skills
*or
Greater Acid Resistance +15 HP +20 HP + Elemental Mastery +11 Balance +3 Saves +3 AC + 2 DEX Skills +3 STR SKills

I wanted to fit the Quorcraft Docent of Battle into my gear setup, I really did. However, there just weren't the alternative sources of healing amplification and extra threat that you can get on Dragontouched Armor.

Epic Gloves of the Claw may make this less important - it's possible that a better gear setup may involve the Quorcraft Docent, Epic Claw gloves, Epic Claw bracers, and a Concordant Opposition HP helm. The 30% healing amp (total -2.5% divine healing) is enough that you can easily heal yourself through Horoth's damage on Normal (as long as you keep Empower Healing active), however you aren't as easy to scrollheal as I will be once I have them.

Tough choices. I like it when gear choices aren't straightforward.

[aristarchus1000]

Hey Sirgog,

I hear ya on getting QDOB, anything to avoid a DT rune grind.

I was wondering, why don't you have levik's bracers as an option, combined with the DT rune for set bonus? You get 20% healing amp with the bracers, and then 20% incite set bonus if you get levik on the DT.

At least that gives you the option of going for more than one possible Sovereign Rune, or 3 rather (incite, healing amp, or levik's), which may substantially reduce Reaver grinding.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Hey Sirgog,

I hear ya on getting QDOB, anything to avoid a DT rune grind.

I was wondering, why don't you have levik's bracers as an option, combined with the DT rune for set bonus? You get 20% healing amp with the bracers, and then 20% incite set bonus if you get levik on the DT.

At least that gives you the option of going for more than one possible Sovereign Rune, or 3 rather (incite, healing amp, or levik's), which may substantially reduce Reaver grinding.

Doing that you would lose the +30% Threat and +4 damage from the new Vulkoor set.

The 20% healing amp wouldn't stack with the 20% already on the DT Docent.


Also sirgog:
I thought Epic Bracers of the Claw came with 100% Fort and Toughness (or was that Greater False Life...)

[aristarchus1000]

Doing that you would lose the +30% Threat and +4 damage from the new Vulkoor set.

The 20% healing amp wouldn't stack with the 20% already on the DT Docent.


Also sirgog:
I thought Epic Bracers of the Claw came with 100% Fort and Toughness (or was that Greater False Life...)

My understanding is that the +30% is only part of the epic set. I'm not sure if the epic grind is easier than the raid VoD grind. Certainly if it is easier to obtain the epic set than I would go with that. I don't have the red fens pack yet but I suppose I can give it a shot.

Either way, the Levik might be a potential interim option until you get the epic set.

[AylinIsAwesome]

My understanding is that the +30% is only part of the epic set. I'm not sure if the epic grind is easier than the raid VoD grind. Certainly if it is easier to obtain the epic set than I would go with that. I don't have the red fens pack yet but I suppose I can give it a shot.

Either way, the Levik might be a potential interim option until you get the epic set.

The gloves themselves are +30% healing and +6 STR, and the Bracers are +6 CON and 100% Fort (and one of Toughness or Greater False Life, can't remember which).


Wearing both will also give you the set bonus of +4 damage and +30% hate.

[sirgog]

Just put the build through another test - maintanking elite Vision of Destruction.

Lost aggro twice, both times to triple Touch of Deaths. This should be less of an issue when I have more threat gear (in particular, a Incite 20% sovereign rune, or the full Claw set).

In the Orthon phase, I built threat, then turtled up and selfhealed, letting the arcanes that had been helping to repair me focus on the orthons. During the firebat phase, I had built up enough of a threat lead that I could pop a charge of the Dragon's Eye (I wouldn't dare to swap in Amara's Belt in this situation due to the 90hp loss), and cycle Mass Cures in between swinging to maintain threat.

All in all, it was one of the smoother VoD elites I've been on. The DR makes a huge difference to the times that the tank has the aggro of both Suulo and 3-4 devils.

[Carpone]

Epic Bracer+Gloves of the Claw set is a no brainer for any melee. Every melee should be wearing it, tank or DPS.

Dragontouched -- 10% healing amp and 20% healing amp. Along with the gloves and Healer's Friend I, that's 111% from positive healing effects without the ship buff (122% with).

Also one of the two 15% incite ToD sets seems like an easy choice.

[domecek1]

Epic Bracer+Gloves of the Claw set is a no brainer for any melee. Every melee should be wearing it, tank or DPS.

Dragontouched -- 10% healing amp and 20% healing amp. Along with the gloves and Healer's Friend I, that's 111% from positive healing effects without the ship buff (122% with).

Also one of the two 15% incite ToD sets seems like an easy choice.

i dont know, man... this set is rly good, but mb melees with lesser to-hit like rogues or combat speced casters should use rather spectral gloves(epic version). But true is, that I am still not decided if I will use epic claw set or leviks/glacier bracers +spectral gloves(epic) on my melee focused fav soul... This new epic content rly brings some nice items on the table..:)

[fervidsea]

Nice Build Sirgog, how important do you feel the TRs of Paladin and or fighter are to this build? The reason I am asking is I have a 20WF Barb, with some gear, that I am considering TRing into this build.

Thanks

[sirgog]

Nice Build Sirgog, how important do you feel the TRs of Paladin and or fighter are to this build? The reason I am asking is I have a 20WF Barb, with some gear, that I am considering TRing into this build.

Thanks

Barbarians have a passive TR bonus feat that is excellent for this build (the +10hp). The active feat should not be taken.

The other really good passive feat I didn't mention is the Ranger one - +2 stacking resistances. This is of roughly equal merit to the Barbarian one.


However, I'm running this build with an almost totally worthless Cleric past life passive, and it's going fine.

[sirgog]

Redesigning the gear setup:

Given that Update 6 intoduced several new Epic items, this is a new gear setup designed to take them into account. (It assumes that the presently un-craftable Epic Bracers of the Claw are +6 Con, Greater False Life and Heavy Fortificaiton, as suspected on Lamannia, and that these will be available by the time the rest of the gear is acquired).


New ultimate gear setup:

Epic items in purple. Shroud items in green[/color. Other raid and named items in [color=yellow]yellow.


Docent:
Epic Red Dragonscale Docent, Toughness augment and any one other augment, possibly +1 exceptional Con.
- This is hands-down the best available docent for damage output in content where mobs are not fire immune (most of the present endgame). However, when running Devil-heavy content from the pre-Update 1 endgame, you might prefer another docent, such as an unlocked Quorcraft Docent of Battle, or a Healing Amp 10%/Incite 15%/Incite 20% DT docent.

Weapon:
Switch between Epic Sword of Shadow (any augment, Force Critical ritual) for general-purpose DPS, Mineral 2 Quarterstaff (Force Damage ritual OR 1x Adamantine Ritual, universal DR breaker), Force Burst Rahl's Might and Holy Dreamspitter for situational use, and a Cold Absorb 10/15/20% Shroud weapon[color] for the Nytharios encounter (kiting and healing roles).

[color=orange]Gloves:
Epic Gloves of the Claw
- 30% Healing Amplification - /drool, and a set bonus that provides all the threat you need. You'd wear it just for that, but this also comes with more - +4 damage (/drool) and also +6 Strength for the times you are caught in melee without Divine Power active. Take that, beholders.
- Switch in Seven-Fingered Gloves very situationally, mostly for situations like recasting Fireshield scrolls while kiting in the Nytharios encounter. Likewise, switch in the Titan's Grip gloves situationally.

Bracers:
Epic Bracers of the Claw.
- This is all about stat consolidation and the set bonuses, and is your full-time Heavy Fortification item. Note that this is not currently craftable, and you may well be stuck with Minos Legens or the Head of Good Fortune as your fortification item until then.

Belt:
Switch between the following - Amara's Belt and Tokala's Belt (for healing clickies), Shroud-crafted item (this can safely be your hitpoint item, although I recommend the cloak slot). Note that if this is your HP item, you won't be able to refresh the Amara's clickies easily in combats while tanking - this should not be a problem, however, as your empowered Heal will still hit you for enough to get you out of immediate danger.
If it takes you up a Strength bracket, you might consider Epic Belt of the Mroranon, which allows you to replace the Toughness augment in the Epic Red Docent with Good Luck instead.

Boots:
Switch between the following - Boots of Anchoring, Firestorm Greaves, Boots of the Innocent, Shroud-crafted item (this can safely be your SP item). Extremely situationally, use Madstone Boots. Do not use Madstone Boots unless the party knows you are - a good situation where you might use them is in epic VON6, where you might heal the first six Dragon passes, then when out of mana, whack the Boots on and smack Velah around a little harder.

Ring 1:
Epic Ring of Baphomet
- +2 exceptional Strength AND +2 exceptional Con in one neat package. /drool. The Wisdom penalty is irrelevant, the Charisma penalty is annoying (and costs you 29sp for half of the possible tome setups you might have) but is not a dealbreaker. Augment with +6 Charisma OR +1 exceptional Charisma.

Ring 2:
Switch between:
Shintao Ring, augmented with +20% Healing Amplification (for melee and tanking duty)
Warchanter Ring, augmented with Greater Devotion 8 (for healbot duty - sometimes you can't rely on having clickies active)

Goggles:
Switch between:
Tharne's Goggles - for melee DPS
Resist/Guard Shroud items - for tanking
- This item slot offers nothing for a healing role that I can think of.

Helm:
Switch between:
Minos Legens (take this off permanently when you have the Epic items listed above, but it is great while levelling and gearing)
Shroud items - possibly +5 Reflex Saves (air)/Resist Fire +5/Resist Fire +10/Blur/Displace clicky
Epic Chainmail Coif with +4 saves augment

Amulet:
Switch between:
Shintao Cord - use this when the +2 to hit from the set bonus is required. Also use it (just for the Concentration) when you are scrollhealing and mana is not an issue but interruption is a problem (e.g. if you are healing the maintank in VoD from scrolls)
Torin's Choker - use this when you are healing from SP and actively trying to avoid being hit (e.g. anywhere that you have had Invisibility cast on you for healing duty, this is common in ToD and VoD)
Torc of Raiyum - For most situations, this is optimal. Why can't I ever seem to loot it? In particular, wear this while tanking, while soloing with Bladebarrier, and while healing from SP while Quicken Spell is on and you are visible to monsters. With the change to Holy Aura, the Epic upgrade to this is actually worthwhile.
Shroud-crafted 45 Cold Resist item - for the Nytharios encounter.

Cloak:
This can safely be anything - Shroud-crafted items are good here, particularly ones you want on all the time like your Conc-Opp Shroud HP item. It can also be a hotswap slot for Shroud-crafted 45 resist items.

Trinket:
Switch between:
Epic Dragon's Eye - for healing duty, this should also always be equipped while shrining. Use the clicky when you need your Mass Heals to be guaranteed to fill someone up even if they are very low on HP, or for when casting it around undead (Epic Lailat's berserk phase, epic Raiyum, lich Sor'jek). If your usual helm doesn't have +4 saves augmented onto it, here's a good spot to put it.
Bloodstone or Epic Bloodstone - extra damage means extra threat, and it's extra damage.
Epic Dusk Heart - for the extra 10 hp, useful in some situations.
Kardin's Eye - Situationally useful. Be warned - it breaks quickly and so probably needs an Adamantine Ritual.
Xaochasian Eardweller - Fills some of the same role as the Epic Dragon's Eye, and also pumps your Bladebarriers up to be almost as good as those of a no-Eardweller, Wisdom-based FvS.

Possible alternate ToD set to use
You might also situatonally want to use the Stalwart Necklace and Cinder's Ring while tanking to maximize threat. This is most likely to be important if you have melees that insist on wearing the Claw set while they are not tanking (and there's lots of people clueless enough to do that, who will endanger the party to up their own damage by ~3-4%).

Recommended Colorless Epic Augments
+6 Dex (for the Reflex save boost)
+1 exceptional stats - prioritise Con and Str, then look to boost any of Wis, Dex and Cha that are odd


Key defensive stats with this gear setup:

HP - 607 standing, 667 with sustainable selfbuffs (Rage potion, Yugoloth Con potion) with a +3 or better Con tome. 587 standing is easy to achieve.
Threat - 162.5% of base (x1.3 from Greater Vulkoor's Might set, x1.25 from WF Brute Fighting 4). Optionally x1.15 from Defender set
DR - 13 (15 if you take Adamantine Body, which is really tough to afford feats-wise and causes occasional Fire Shield scroll fails - if you take it, sacrifice Extend)
Incoming Healing - 100% Arcane, 117% Divine (128.7% with guild buffs)
Resists - 50-65 Fire (65 if equipping a fire resist Shroud item, 50 otherwise, undispellable), 40 Electric, 40 Cold, 30 Sonic, 30 Acid (depending upon your Shroud item setup, these may or may not be dispellable). In particular, you will largely laugh off Meteor Swarms, taking a mere ~150 damage where other toons may take 280.
Saves - vary greatly based on item setup and buffs. These are at the lower end of what tanks should have.
Guards - Incineration, Fire, plus any you Shroud-craft (which should include Concordant Opposition, Lightning Strike and Disintegration).

[sirgog]

Epic Bracer+Gloves of the Claw set is a no brainer for any melee. Every melee should be wearing it, tank or DPS.

Dragontouched -- 10% healing amp and 20% healing amp. Along with the gloves and Healer's Friend I, that's 111% from positive healing effects without the ship buff (122% with).

Also one of the two 15% incite ToD sets seems like an easy choice.

Forgot about the Incite sets. But any melee DPS that's wearing the Epic Claw set is hurting their own DPS (by making it unlikely that they can get the Tharne's Goggle's benefit of +8 damage per swing) and also endangering the party in any encounter where tanking is important.

[Mast3rR0b]

Forgot about the Incite sets. But any melee DPS that's wearing the Epic Claw set is hurting their own DPS (by making it unlikely that they can get the Tharne's Goggle's benefit of +8 damage per swing) and also endangering the party in any encounter where tanking is important.

agree

Really nice hints on this build sirgog, expecially on equip.

I'm just 2 ToDs away from TR my FvS, and i was considering a build very similar to your's. I initially thought about Intimidate, but really all geared and buffed the top i may reach is 55. It's not that bad of a number, but in the end it's probably not worth it. I didn't consider hate tanking though (and shame on me for this :P ). I really think i'll try this out.

[fervidsea]

Well, as mentioned above, I took the plunge and TR'd my WF Barbarian into this build. I already love FvS's, having a lvl 20 Human Evoker, now its just the beginning of the grind. Lvl 3 as of this post.

[Matuse]

Holy Burst Rahl's Might

Err, the what now?

There's no Holy version of Rahl's.

[sirgog]

Err, the what now?

There's no Holy version of Rahl's.

My stupid. I meant Force Burst. /palmface

Fixed now.

[Bacab]

Was never sure of this...

But does the Shroud Exceptional Fire (or any other resist) stack with the FVS Inherant resists?

By your post it looks like it does.

I also really like your Nytheros set up. Hot swap a Cold resitance weapon AND a Exceptional Cold resist Accessory.

One thing you have not mentioned is shields.

Currently I am after/have a few shields.

Lorrik's Shield for the DR and Panacea. Also I pair this up with my Lorrik's Necklace for heal bot status on certain raids. I am still trying to get Lorrik's onto a DT set. I mainly use that Shield/Neck when doing EVoN6 and I am on healing duty. Nice idea of Madstone Boots for when I am out of SP. Never considered that. I also use the Greater Ardor clicky from (one of) my Amrath Belt. Never thought of using Eardweller for that though...Kudos!

Levik's Shiled for when I need to turtle up and be beat on for SP. The "Occasionally casts Heal" seems really strong. I have not gotten this shield yet...hoping to get it soon...only a few hounds to go till I get to pick from a list.

Light and Darkness (upgraded) for anytime when Saves>most other things. I was thinking this shield paired with the Ice gear for Nytheros encounter. BTW I have never kited that part...does the Ice Touch thing have a save? If so, is it a Reflex/Will/Fort? My goal was to use the LnD and Head of Good Fortune over the Kardin's eye.

Death's Door because it looks cool when paired with undying Gaze...is that reason enough to get it? Town gear? Of course it is!

Once again Sirgog...really like your build. But the gear discussion is what really sets this apart. Also I feel with the more shields the less Addy Body makes sense. Before I was 100% sure I wanted to keep Addy body. I never even thought about the Spell Failure to my scrolls from UMD...

Oh and I +1ed ya.

Meant to do that when I first read the thread...but had to spread it around more first.

[sirgog]

Was never sure of this...

But does the Shroud Exceptional Fire (or any other resist) stack with the FVS Inherant resists?

By your post it looks like it does.

I also really like your Nytheros set up. Hot swap a Cold resitance weapon AND a Exceptional Cold resist Accessory.

One thing you have not mentioned is shields.

Currently I am after/have a few shields.

Lorrik's Shield for the DR and Panacea. Also I pair this up with my Lorrik's Necklace for heal bot status on certain raids. I am still trying to get Lorrik's onto a DT set. I mainly use that Shield/Neck when doing EVoN6 and I am on healing duty. Nice idea of Madstone Boots for when I am out of SP. Never considered that. I also use the Greater Ardor clicky from (one of) my Amrath Belt. Never thought of using Eardweller for that though...Kudos!

Levik's Shiled for when I need to turtle up and be beat on for SP. The "Occasionally casts Heal" seems really strong. I have not gotten this shield yet...hoping to get it soon...only a few hounds to go till I get to pick from a list.

Light and Darkness (upgraded) for anytime when Saves>most other things. I was thinking this shield paired with the Ice gear for Nytheros encounter. BTW I have never kited that part...does the Ice Touch thing have a save? If so, is it a Reflex/Will/Fort? My goal was to use the LnD and Head of Good Fortune over the Kardin's eye.

Death's Door because it looks cool when paired with undying Gaze...is that reason enough to get it? Town gear? Of course it is!

Once again Sirgog...really like your build. But the gear discussion is what really sets this apart. Also I feel with the more shields the less Addy Body makes sense. Before I was 100% sure I wanted to keep Addy body. I never even thought about the Spell Failure to my scrolls from UMD...

Oh and I +1ed ya.

Meant to do that when I first read the thread...but had to spread it around more first.

I have a couple of the raid shields on Numot. They have been sitting in my TR cache for a while now, and I doubt they'll leave it any time soon.

The main reason I don't use one while healing is because it's pretty easy to reposition yourself out of range of the boss's melee attacks.

As for your Nytharios question - there's no save. The only mitigation comes from Cold Absorb, Cold Resist and Fire Shield effects. Absorb effects help quite a bit more than resist ones, but both are good.

If you are set on getting the shields - run Hound on Elite and the two shields have extremely high drop rates (HoX elite is, unfortunately, pretty much un-PUGgable). Almost every elite run, one or both of the shields will drop. On normal, the drop rates are miniscule. (20th end reward uses the Elite list, so you should see both there, or at least one of them if a tad unlucky).

[Bacab]

I have a couple of the raid shields on Numot. They have been sitting in my TR cache for a while now, and I doubt they'll leave it any time soon.

The main reason I don't use one while healing is because it's pretty easy to reposition yourself out of range of the boss's melee attacks.

As for your Nytharios question - there's no save. The only mitigation comes from Cold Absorb, Cold Resist and Fire Shield effects. Absorb effects help quite a bit more than resist ones, but both are good.

If you are set on getting the shields - run Hound on Elite and the two shields have extremely high drop rates (HoX elite is, unfortunately, pretty much un-PUGgable). Almost every elite run, one or both of the shields will drop. On normal, the drop rates are miniscule. (20th end reward uses the Elite list, so you should see both there, or at least one of them if a tad unlucky).

I have the Lorrik's Shield and Necklace. Also the Levik's Bracers...I do agree 100% about the bad drop rate on Normal. I am still chasing the Levik's Defender...very hard to get to drop it seems. Suprisingly no Hound rings yet on this toon.

I only really get my hopes up for gear on Hard or Elite. Normal just helps me get to 20 lol.

Ok so what I am thinking as of now is this...


For Nytharios fight/kiting:

I will find a random 1 Handed weapon on the AH for cheap (like someone messed up in making it) and put triple Ice Absorption on it.

I was thinking Green Steel Boots with Triple Ice on it also. I picked Boots since I will use the boot slot as my "boss fight slot".

Docent will be Upgraded Mindsunder Docent

Thinking a different belt here other than Vorne's (6 CON GFL very open to suggestions)

For Harry:

Weapon will be Lightning Strike Greatsword or ESoS (once I actually make it) on normal.
Mineral 2 on Hard/Elite

Goggles will be Tharne's Goggles since hes hard to actually hate tank (his aggro seems all over the place)

And I will use Firestorm Greaves (boots are boss fight slot)

Docent of Defiance (found one for cheap...added all 3 Addy rituals) or Mindsunder Docent...open to suggestions

Vorne's Belt for the 6 CON and GFL or something different if wearing the Mindsunder Docent is better...open to suggestions

For Sully

Weapon will be Lightning Strike Greatsword or ESoS (once I actually make it) on normal.
Mineral 2 on Hard/Elite

Boots will be boots of anchoring(when fighting him in ToD)

Green Steel Gloves with Lightning Strike Gaurd on it

Green Steel Goggles with Disentegration Gaurd on it (if tanking...Tharne's if not tanking)

Docent of Defiance (found one for cheap...added all 3 Addy rituals)

Vorne's Belt for the 6 CON and GFL

For Horoth

Weapon will be Lightning Strike Greatsword or ESoS (once I actually make it) on normal.
Mineral 2 on Hard/Elite

Boots will be Boots of Anchoring

Green Steel Gloves with Lightning Strike Gaurd on it

Green Steel Goggles with Disentegration Gaurd on it

Docent of Defiance (found one for cheap...added all 3 Addy rituals)

Vorne's Belt for the 6 CON and GFL


For all Fights I will be wearing...

Levik's Bracers for the +6 STR and 20% Healing Amp

Concord Opp Cloak (10HP+50SP(+2 CHR Skill)+100SP(+3 CHR Skill)

Greensteel Helm of Mineral 2 (Wizardry 6 (CHR skill)+ 15HP (+2 CON skill) +20 HP (+3 CON Skill))

With this setup I always have +6 CHR skills for UMDing (mainly GH and Fire Shield stuff)

Vorne's Belt for the 6 CON and GFL

Ultimately...

Mindsunder Docent+some weird belt vs DoD + Vorne's belt
Extra 30 HP due to Superior false life and Toughness and whatever special belt Vs DR 20

[suse]

i have a nooby question...

i started out with 12 wisdom like you said but wont i only be able to get lvl 2 spells?

(no way i can afford a +2 wis tome)

thx

[fervidsea]

i have a nooby question...

i started out with 12 wisdom like you said but wont i only be able to get lvl 2 spells?

(no way i can afford a +2 wis tome)

thx


Initial stats (34 point build; these include racial modifiers): 18 Str (plus all level ups), 8 Dex, 18 Con, 10 Int, 6 Wis, 12 Cha. 28/32 point builds sacrifice some Strength, 36 point builds can splash out on another skill by upping Int by 2.Per the Initial Stats you should have started with a CHA of 12 not Wis. FvS casting stat is Cha.

[suse]

Per the Initial Stats you should have started with a CHA of 12 not Wis. FvS casting stat is Cha.

ya i meant to say charisma not wisdom

[sirgog]

i have a nooby question...

i started out with 12 wisdom like you said but wont i only be able to get lvl 2 spells?

(no way i can afford a +2 wis tome)

thx

You will easily be able to afford a +6 Charisma item by appropriate level to take that up to 18, granting level 8 spells. Then, enhancements (which I didn't take any of until 20) will get you to 19 even without tomes.

[Carpone]

Forgot about the Incite sets. But any melee DPS that's wearing the Epic Claw set is hurting their own DPS (by making it unlikely that they can get the Tharne's Goggle's benefit of +8 damage per swing) and also endangering the party in any encounter where tanking is important.
My outlook on this game differs from you. The epic claw set is max DPS. I'm expecting and encouraging every melee I raid with to have that set when I tank, so my gear and enhancements have to compensate for that. If you're hate tanking and another melee steals aggro, you shouldn't be the tank. Raise the bar, don't lower it.

[suse]

You will easily be able to afford a +6 Charisma item by appropriate level to take that up to 18, granting level 8 spells. Then, enhancements (which I didn't take any of until 20) will get you to 19 even without tomes.

ok thanks

what are some examples of +6 charisma items/where do i get them

[Thrudh]

+1 just for the name....

Asia rocks!

[Talltale-Storyteller]

+1 just for the name....

Asia rocks!


I think you may be thinking of "Seoul, South Korea" ? If not then my bad.

[Thrudh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SknhwBX8QCY

:)

[Vynnt]

ok thanks

what are some examples of +6 charisma items/where do i get them

The easiest way is a helmet or cloak on the AH, or randomly find one from a chest.

[sirgog]

My outlook on this game differs from you. The epic claw set is max DPS. I'm expecting and encouraging every melee I raid with to have that set when I tank, so my gear and enhancements have to compensate for that. If you're hate tanking and another melee steals aggro, you shouldn't be the tank. Raise the bar, don't lower it.

Someone that deliberately takes aggro in the 'tanking' raids, particularly in ToD, should be allowed to die and left dead. They are nothing but a waste of resources, just like the 350hp 0 fort rogue that maximizes DPS by replacing their Heavy Fortification item with a Shroud Corrosive Salt guard. The only difference is that the rogue will be the only one that dies - in ToD, stealing aggro can cause a total wipe at several times.

There's no content at all where +4 damage per swing does anything more for the group than trim 0-2 seconds off boss completion time - but there's quite a few encounters where unpredictable aggro on bosses will cause deaths. Plus, the PAX footage of the new raid indicates that it will (on Epic) probably require a tank and has mechanics (breath attacks) that will cause taking aggro to result in mass deaths.

As for choosing the highest aggro person to tank - quite often, the highest aggro will be a 400-550hp rogue multiclass. I'm not having one of them tank ToD, nor will I put a 0 healing amp melee in that role.

[Bacab]

Someone that deliberately takes aggro in the 'tanking' raids, particularly in ToD, should be allowed to die and left dead. They are nothing but a waste of resources, just like the 350hp 0 fort rogue that maximizes DPS by replacing their Heavy Fortification item with a Shroud Corrosive Salt guard. The only difference is that the rogue will be the only one that dies - in ToD, stealing aggro can cause a total wipe at several times.

There's no content at all where +4 damage per swing does anything more for the group than trim 0-2 seconds off boss completion time - but there's quite a few encounters where unpredictable aggro on bosses will cause deaths. Plus, the PAX footage of the new raid indicates that it will (on Epic) probably require a tank and has mechanics (breath attacks) that will cause taking aggro to result in mass deaths.

As for choosing the highest aggro person to tank - quite often, the highest aggro will be a 400-550hp rogue multiclass. I'm not having one of them tank ToD, nor will I put a 0 healing amp melee in that role.

Yeah I agree with this 100%.

I PUGGED a ToD a couple days ago and the ROG kept dieing and the other Healer kept raising him.

I eventually said "Leave him Dead...Horoth is now at full". The Raid leader agreed and the ROG stayed dead.

I ended up kiting the Orthons and Sully while our DPS made pretty short work of Horoth.

Was a LOT of fun. This raid I also got to kite Nyth/Shadowfiends for the first time. Was a lot of fun.

Thanks Duderman for allowing me try it for the first time.

Anyway about Sirgog's last comment about the 0 Healing Amp Melee hate tanking...

I 100% agree to this. I don't want that 700 HP WF barb that gets healed for only 175 when everyone else is getting hit for 350+ being the "tank". Or a Heal scroll is hitting them for 110ish...

Though that same WF Barb can Hate tank *IF* there is a Wizard or SORC or a UMD-heavy toon that is ok with using Reconstruct.

I run into this a lot...where the high HP toon wants to tank, but is crazy hard to keep up.

[Carpone]

I PUGGED a ToD a couple days ago and the ROG kept dieing

[...]

I 100% agree to this. I don't want that 700 HP WF barb that gets healed for only 175 when everyone else is getting hit for 350+ being the "tank". Or a Heal scroll is hitting them for 110ish...

This is what I mean by raising the bar instead of lowering it. I can't imagine a more masochistic thing to do in DDO than join a pug ToD. Find better and consistent people to raid with. WF tanks with 50% heal amp aren't raid caliber and shouldn't raid tank, ever. 25% incite with 101% heal amp while wearing Docent of Defiance is totally within reason as a WF tank. That's without epic claw items.

[ColinQ]

I can't imagine a more masochistic thing to do in DDO than join a pug ToD.
PUG Abbot
or Elite new invasion


Find better and consistent people to raid with. WF tanks with 50% heal amp aren't raid caliber and shouldn't raid tank, ever. 25% incite with 101% heal amp while wearing Docent of Defiance is totally within reason as a WF tank. That's without epic claw items.

wont it be easier to get a sor with reconstruct?

[fervidsea]

Well, lvl 8 on my TR... kinda missing the dps that my barb had. Just gonna have to make another WF Barb something or other.

However, build rocks so far. I have the claw set and the Souleater Q-staff, combined with the Blademarks Docent everything is going smooth.

Now I just need to take some vacation time from work, lol.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I 100% agree to this. I don't want that 700 HP WF barb that gets healed for only 175 when everyone else is getting hit for 350+ being the "tank". Or a Heal scroll is hitting them for 110ish...

What would your (and sirgog's) thoughts be on a 120% healing amp Warforged be? (Heal his for 342, Mass Heal for 336, Heal scroll for 132 [just Life Magic 4, no feats, no Wand/Scroll Mastery]) With Finger necklace added it would go to 132% (if I did that right) for 376 on Heal, 369 on Mass Heal and 145 on Heal Scroll.


This would be a Hatetank (but would also be able to turtle up and intim if needed). The AC would vary from low 70s to mid 80s, depending on active stance, weapon held, ect.

[aristarchus1000]

Min2 staff.

Sirgog, I had a question regarding your recommendation for a Min2 staff/maul. I understand that it is nice to have a "universal DR breaker" but is it really necessary, or even ideal?

Is there anything in the game that requires metalline and pure good and blunt? My understanding is that sorjek, raiyum, and abbot all require blunt/good (according to ddowiki, just needs blunt/magic). Aren't you better off just using a triple pos staff for those fights, and using a Min2 greatsword for the devil fights? You are giving up a decent amount of damage going from a GS greatsword to GS quarterstaff, or even maul (after including class/enhancement bonuses).

[sirgog]

Min2 staff.

Sirgog, I had a question regarding your recommendation for a Min2 staff/maul. I understand that it is nice to have a "universal DR breaker" but is it really necessary, or even ideal?

Is there anything in the game that requires metalline and pure good and blunt? My understanding is that sorjek, raiyum, and abbot all require blunt/good. Aren't you better off just using a triple pos staff for those fights, and using a Min2 greatsword for the devil fights? You are giving up a decent amount of damage going from a GS greatsword to GS quarterstaff, or even maul (after including class/enhancement bonuses).

A Min 2 greatsword, eSOS, adamantine blunt weapon and double/triple positive q-staff is a fine alternative weapon setup.

The Min 2 staff comes in most handy in content like Epic Wiz-King, where it's a good damage dealer that's also study enough (due to the extra hardness for being Mineral) to handle being whacked against golems, skeletons, and a lich over and over.

[Bacab]

What would your (and sirgog's) thoughts be on a 120% healing amp Warforged be? (Heal his for 342, Mass Heal for 336, Heal scroll for 132 [just Life Magic 4, no feats, no Wand/Scroll Mastery]) With Finger necklace added it would go to 132% (if I did that right) for 376 on Heal, 369 on Mass Heal and 145 on Heal Scroll.


This would be a Hatetank (but would also be able to turtle up and intim if needed). The AC would vary from low 70s to mid 80s, depending on active stance, weapon held, ect.

Yeah with that kind of healing amp...youd be set

[Bacab]

Ok I have gone over some different gear choices and etc...

i was thinking...lets make a few posts about Docents and when to use them.

Docent of Defiance
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Docents/DocentofDefiance.jpg
~Pros
*DR/20
*Leap of Faith ignores being crippled
*Inherant Resistances that cannot be dispelled
~Cons
*Slows you down
*Before Leap of Faith, being crippled can get you killed

Docent of Quickening
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Docents/DocentofQuickening.jpg
~Pros
*Attack speed bonus
*Striding 25%
*The Attack speed boost *MAY* be turned into double strike chances
~Cons
*Attack speed does not stack with haste
*Many people have striding 30 Boots

Quori Docent of Battle (Unlocked)
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Unlimited/Items/Docents/QuorforgedDocentofBattleUpgraded.png
~Pros
*Amazing HP item
*6 CON
*Superior False Life
*Toughness
~Cons
*No DR/
*Many people wear an Amrath Belt with 6 CON and GFL on it so it can be a waste of a slot

Sentinel's Docent
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8595/blademarksdocent.jpg
~Pros
*Min level 5
*Lifeshield (amazing at low levels)
*Invulnerability (amazing at low levels)
~Cons
*kinda loses its luster later in game...but can be epicced (once Sentinels is fixed)

Epic Docent of Grace
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/5240/screenshot00001a.jpg
~Pros
*Immune to slippery surfaces (though FoM can bypass that)
*can be upgraded very nicely with epic tokens
~Cons
*Does not seem to benefit a FVS very much

Epic Red Dragon Scale Docent
~Pros
*Superior Fire Reistance (40 Fire resistance)
*Adds Fire Damage to your melee attacks
*Fire and Incineration Gaurd
*Empty Colorless and Blue Slot
*Looks Great and is a "Prestige" Item
~Cons
*Very expensive to make
*Takes a long time to make
*Most things are indeed immune to fire at end game


Anyway, any thoughts?

*

[AylinIsAwesome]

Yeah with that kind of healing amp...youd be set

Now if only I could fit those gloves in. Stuck at 90% with Spectrals...



Epic Red Dragon Scale Docent
~Pros
*Superior Fire Reistance (40 Fire resistance)
*Adds Fire Damage to your melee attacks
*Fire and Incineration Gaurd
*Empty Colorless and Blue Slot
*Looks Great and is a "Prestige" Item
~Cons
*Very expensive to make
*Takes a long time to make
*Most things are indeed immune to fire at end game
*Does not work with Ravager set!

Added my comment

[Carpone]

Docent of Defiance
*Inherant Resistances that cannot be dispelled
The resistances are pointless in a raid, and with hour-long ship resistance buffs that eclipse them. It's all about DR 20/-


Sentinel's Docent
*kinda loses its luster later in game...but can be epicced (once Sentinels is fixed)
The epic version is no different, other than +blue slot. The strength of this item is at lower levels.


Epic Docent of Grace
*Does not seem to benefit a FVS very much
It's got a blue slot, that's the only raid benefit. Otherwise I only equip it to backflip around while waiting for people to show up.


Epic Red Dragon Scale Docent
*Looks Great and is a "Prestige" Item
That's the reason to get it.

[aristarchus1000]

{great review of available docents clipped}

*

The alternative, of course, is Dragontouched Docent. You can even make a few swappable ones. Enjoy the grind. (hopefully better in update 7).

As of now, I have an upgraded QDOB that I use most of the time, and I plan to swap to a DR docent when I need the incite bonus, and swap my build to a Knost Belt for those times. Otherwise, I like being able to swap among my various Shavarath belts easily, and the QDOB just consolidates a lot of gear, so it's convenient while you work towards gear that requires a lot more grinding.

I actually used Blademark Docent for a long time, eventually used an adamantine ritual or two to make it more durable. The lifeshield effect is just so useful, and synergizes really well with the 13 static DR and a Torc (really lucky pull for me).

[brucelee82]

I am wondering how the new half orc class would fit this build?
From what I have seen half orc will have the power attack enhancements, brute fighting and enhancements for great swords. They would also have healing amp as opposed to the wf healing penalty. Im not sure what they would get for FvS feats? Also it looks like you might have to give up 4 con and get 4 str? not really sure on that. I was planning on TRing to a FvS and I am trying to figure out what race now and what equipment to get.

[domecek1]

I am wondering how the new half orc class would fit this build?
From what I have seen half orc will have the power attack enhancements, brute fighting and enhancements for great swords. They would also have healing amp as opposed to the wf healing penalty. Im not sure what they would get for FvS feats? Also it looks like you might have to give up 4 con and get 4 str? not really sure on that. I was planning on TRing to a FvS and I am trying to figure out what race now and what equipment to get.

yep, this race rly gimping many wf builds...:/

[sirgog]

I am wondering how the new half orc class would fit this build?
From what I have seen half orc will have the power attack enhancements, brute fighting and enhancements for great swords. They would also have healing amp as opposed to the wf healing penalty. Im not sure what they would get for FvS feats? Also it looks like you might have to give up 4 con and get 4 str? not really sure on that. I was planning on TRing to a FvS and I am trying to figure out what race now and what equipment to get.

WF is still superior for this build.

WF still have the better defenses - 3-5 extra DR, 60 more HP, and a fair few immunities. Those HP matter a lot when on a build that has just enough to maintank Horoth.

They also have FvS Lord of Blades - ½orcs don't have any proficiency with two-handed weapons except for the quarterstaff.

Of course, other ½orc FvS builds will certainly be possible - I doubt they'll be able to tank, however.

[Warinx]

Well, half-orcs will get a MUCH better healing amp than any WF build (I got a WF myself so I'm a bit worried xD) and they can get DT with incite just as easily

[Bacab]

Well, half-orcs will get a MUCH better healing amp than any WF build (I got a WF myself so I'm a bit worried xD) and they can get DT with incite just as easily

Reconstruct does not work on Half-Orcs

4 CON> 4STR when it comes to tanking

Which would you rather have...

40 More HP and a Bonus to Hit and damage with the best weapon in the game (Epic Sword of Shadows) and +5% Double Strike (Bard song)+ 115% Fortification
*or*
+4 STR and able to be Neg leveled?? and no 5% Double Strike or yes to 5% Double strike but only 90% Fortification

As far as a tanking FVS/surviving FVS Warforged>Half-Orc

As far as barbarian or Fighter...Maybe Halforc>Warforged

BTW Half-orcs still have drawbacks...everyone is just focusing on the offensive capabilities of Half-orc...and not the Defensive Capabilities of a WF

[sirgog]

Well, half-orcs will get a MUCH better healing amp than any WF build (I got a WF myself so I'm a bit worried xD) and they can get DT with incite just as easily

They can't make the necessary HP thresholds to tank without making totally unacceptable sacrifices (like levelup points in Con, or multiple Toughness feats). As a threat tank, you need to be able to survive the strings of bad luck that happen in the game, and the combination of halforcs (a race squishier than humans but not as squishy as elves) with Favored Soul (a class that has mid-range hitpoints) doesn't lend itself to this.

However, a half-orc melee DPS build dualwielding Greensteel weapons or hypothetical future good Epic longswords is worth considering. Once more, it's a different build to this one.

[Warinx]

First your build and post, and especially the gear part is great and very well thought out. Thank you for sharing it on the forum. I was wondering though..

I got a build pretty similar to this with 2 monk splash using DoD for Damage Reduction. But I've been considering using a LR +3 to remove those monk levels. With the new 2hf feats, would you consider picking up more of them?

My current feats are:
2hf, i2hf, g2hf, toughness, maxamize, extend, Power Attack, Quicken, ICrit:Slash

I was considering dropping Power attack, and gh2f for dropping monk, and swiching maxamize for Empower healing

Leaving me with 2hf and i2hf instead of power attack and maxamize compared to your build. Do you think with that will be worth it coming update 7? Since each tier of 2hf will be 10% extra damage?

[Warinx]

Also, but related I've been thinking about the worth of IC:Slash vs another 2hf tier since IC:Slash is aprox 10% damage for a GS user, but often you're using a blunt weapon, a mineral 2, or there's fortification involoved. And that's just 10% single target damage, with 2hf feats you get 10% on your main target, AND everyone else close to you.

Ofcourse it's 10% base damage not including the procs etc, it's only 3% of that damage.

[Bacab]

Iproved Crit slash is AMAZING for SoS ESoS. Also Lightning Strike really benefits from Imp Crit Slash.

Power Attack>any 2HF feats senor.

I recently (3 months ago) picked up Empower Healing...never again will I be without.

I settled on in no particular order...

Toughness
Extend
Maximize
Empower Healing
Quicken
Improved Crit Slashing
Power Attack

[Warinx]

hmm comes down to Maximize and extend then if Power Attack > 10% AoE damage

[Bacab]

hmm comes down to Maximize and extend then if Power Attack > 10% AoE damage

I like Extend for Divine Favor/Power and Blade Barrier length.

Longer BB's make the ToD Nytheros Fight a LOT easier to kite (the shadowfiends).

But you *can* live without Extend.

I tend to use "twitch" so the 2HF feats kinda do less for me.

[Warinx]

I love extend too T_T

When it comes to twiching, I guess it's still gonna be good if you don't have the 2hf feats. Even though everyone else is saying twich is out. (ofcourse don't twich during trash aoe etc) Do you find it ok to twich when doing epic or do you need the dps?

Twiching lets you glance on the 2 first blows but you miss the third since you're moving?

[Bacab]

Hmm...sometimes on Epic I do have to stop twitching due to enemy AC.

Epic Von 6 Djinns at teh bases come to mind. I have to turn off Power Attack also for those.

Though I have to admit...with the new "fixes" to the 2HF feats...it does indeed become a tougher decision.

I personally believe "outlasting" a monster is the best way to not die to it though. IF I have to give up survivability for DPS...I will stick with the survivability.

[Warinx]

Think I'm gonna try out dropping IC:Slash and Maximize for 20% glancing blow damage, atleast until I get eSoS just to play around with it.

[AylinIsAwesome]

WF is still superior for this build.

WF still have the better defenses - 3-5 extra DR, 60 more HP, and a fair few immunities. Those HP matter a lot when on a build that has just enough to maintank Horoth.

They also have FvS Lord of Blades - ½orcs don't have any proficiency with two-handed weapons except for the quarterstaff.

Of course, other ½orc FvS builds will certainly be possible - I doubt they'll be able to tank, however.


Non-proficiency isn't much of an issue since the Half-Orc +4 STR will give back 2 of the to-hit that was lost. Since eSoS is a +10 weapon I doubt missing will be much of an issue. The to-hit is still 5 higher than a Half-Orc using two GS Longswords with Sov. Host faith for example (unless the longsword version has OTWF, which I doubt is affordable).

Warforged does have a few advantages for this type of build, but proficiency isn't really one of them.

[Warinx]

Non-proficiency isn't much of an issue since the Half-Orc +4 STR will give back 2 of the to-hit that was lost. Since eSoS is a +10 weapon I doubt missing will be much of an issue. The to-hit is still 5 higher than a Half-Orc using two GS Longswords with Sov. Host faith for example (unless the longsword version has OTWF, which I doubt is affordable).

Warforged does have a few advantages for this type of build, but proficiency isn't really one of them.

I quess the question on everyones mind then is if 3 DR and 60 HP is worth -50% healing. You could get some sick +healing% on a regular fleshie.

[Bacab]

I quess the question on everyones mind then is if 3 DR and 60 HP is worth -50% healing. You could get some sick +healing% on a regular fleshie.

If you plan on tanking or low manning a lot of stuff...no its not worth it.

If you plan on healing here/there and meleeing...its a personal decision.

Also its not really -50% healing.

Its like -30% Healing (I fit in Healer's Friend I and II)

I also use Levik's Bracers and can swap in a Finger Necklace if I really wanna push it.

[Warinx]

If you plan on tanking or low manning a lot of stuff...no its not worth it.

If you plan on healing here/there and meleeing...its a personal decision.

Also its not really -50% healing.

Its like -30% Healing (I fit in Healer's Friend I and II)

I also use Levik's Bracers and can swap in a Finger Necklace if I really wanna push it.

The problem with healing warforged is that you start at 50% so any amplification you get is worth half what you get on other races. Look at all that stuff Sigrog has, and he's still only at 116% of what a normal fleshie has with no items.

With 100% amplification, a WF is at 100% of fleshie, while the fleshie is at 200%

[Bacab]

The problem with healing warforged is that you start at 50% so any amplification you get is worth half what you get on other races. Look at all that stuff Sigrog has, and he's still only at 116% of what a normal fleshie has with no items.

With 100% amplification, a WF is at 100% of fleshie, while the fleshie is at 200%

How much healing does that Half-orc get from a Reconstruct when tanking Sully in a VoD or ToD?

[Warinx]

How much healing does that Half-orc get from a Reconstruct when tanking Sully in a VoD or ToD?
Valid point is valid, some stuff will require WF tanks. Still healing/sp efficiency is also important.

[Warinx]

They can't make the necessary HP thresholds to tank without making totally unacceptable sacrifices (like levelup points in Con, or multiple Toughness feats). As a threat tank, you need to be able to survive the strings of bad luck that happen in the game, and the combination of halforcs (a race squishier than humans but not as squishy as elves) with Favored Soul (a class that has mid-range hitpoints) doesn't lend itself to this.

However, a half-orc melee DPS build dualwielding Greensteel weapons or hypothetical future good Epic longswords is worth considering. Once more, it's a different build to this one.

Actually you could go for an 18 strength 18 con build with Halforc, but you'd still be 40 hp behind (and now only 2 strength ahead)

[Bacab]

Valid point is valid, some stuff will require WF tanks. Still healing/sp efficiency is also important.

Oh definitely!

Not everyone gets this. Certain things/raids (ToD, VoD) make WF>Fleshy

And then on other raids a Fleshy Tank is the way to go.

Nothing worse than me dropping a Empowered Heal on a WF tank/chew toy and seeing it hit for 160 HP...

Sirgog and I really worked on our Healing Amp. I actually plan on making a +Healing Amp ToD Ring very soon. Finger Necklace is also nice in those "weird" situations where Healing amp>torc.

The big thing is damage mitigation. Whether thats out inherant DR/ or our Elemental Resistances and nice saves. Also Fireshield Fire/Cold are super helpful.

As far as Max DPS...sad to say this...Half-Orc>all it seems. You can make an arguement for WF with the ESoS. But then again, Epic Marilith Chain just opens up SOOOOooo many things.

I personally like the WF FVS because once ya gear it out (I am at about 80-85% where I want to be) it is almost unkillable.

Though one thing that should not be forgotten is the immunity to neg levels and such.

Counterpoint...it would be nice to have those 6 AP back from Healer's Friend I & II.

They are just different builds...but both can be great.

It is all about your playstyle.

[sirgog]

After several posts requesting a half-orc version, edited the original post to clarify exactly why such a version of this build just won't work. A half-orc melee FvS might work, but a threat-tanking capable one just will not.

[Bacab]

After several posts requesting a half-orc version, edited the original post to clarify exactly why such a version of this build just won't work. A half-orc melee FvS might work, but a threat-tanking capable one just will not.

agreed...

for multiple reasons...

which you posted :)

[Boromirs]

This is probably one of the best WF FvS builds out there. However, I would consider dumping some of the metamagic feats and picking straight up the 3 THF lines (POST U7). The increase to melee DPS is going to be considerable..even if you do twitch well. I would estimate a 12.5~17.5% gain in DPS if you pick up all three feats even over half decent twitching... nothing to scoff at... how to fit that in is another question.

[sirgog]

This is probably one of the best WF FvS builds out there. However, I would consider dumping some of the metamagic feats and picking straight up the 3 THF lines (POST U7). The increase to melee DPS is going to be considerable..even if you do twitch well. I would estimate a 12.5~17.5% gain in DPS if you pick up all three feats even over half decent twitching... nothing to scoff at... how to fit that in is another question.

I'm really torn on these. Busy over the weekend, but will try to make time to do the numbers.

However, Extend Spell is the only 'easily' dropped feat. Maximize is too important for soloing and healing, IMO.

[Boromirs]

Take out quicken and Improved Critical and Extend. And add the THF lines. Quicken is nice but I don't think it's neccesary, it may lower your standing as a raid healer but... if you dont tell anyone I dont think they'll notice too much (just blame the monk! ).

Make yourself a Min2 Greatsword and call it a day. Keen will cover up the problems with Improved Critical. Extend is a convenience not a neccesity.

[Bacab]

Take out quicken and Improved Critical and Extend. And add the THF lines. Quicken is nice but I don't think it's neccesary, it may lower your standing as a raid healer but... if you dont tell anyone I dont think they'll notice too much (just blame the monk! ).

Make yourself a Min2 Greatsword and call it a day. Keen will cover up the problems with Improved Critical. Extend is a convenience not a neccesity.

Why Imp Crit>THF line

Lightning Strike>Min 2

ESoS>Min 2

Quicken...never leave home without it


Also I have a sneaky suspicion...the 2HF are not gonna work WAI

[Boromirs]

Why Imp Crit>THF line

Lightning Strike>Min 2

ESoS>Min 2

Quicken...never leave home without it


Also I have a sneaky suspicion...the 2HF are not gonna work WAI

Thats also true what you're saying, I recommend just waiting on this current build and then let the numbers come out AFTER it goes live. Also I just found this so.... read the last post.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=274551&page=3

[sirgog]

Why Imp Crit>THF line

Lightning Strike>Min 2

ESoS>Min 2

Quicken...never leave home without it


Also I have a sneaky suspicion...the 2HF are not gonna work WAI

Quicken is the single most important feat on this build. I'd give up Toughness or Power Attack before giving up Quicken.

When Horoth is hitting you for 75-85 damage, you'd need a Concentration score in the low 100s to be able to throw a Heal on yourself (much less on anyone else). And with the best three spells on your class list being Mass Heal, Bladebarrier and Heal, and two of those *requiring* Quicken to be cast in combat at all...

I'm going to play around with dropping Extend for the first THF feat and maybe even Maximize for the second one, but I expect I'll come back to the feats I have now.

[Bacab]

Quicken is the single most important feat on this build. I'd give up Toughness or Power Attack before giving up Quicken.

When Horoth is hitting you for 75-85 damage, you'd need a Concentration score in the low 100s to be able to throw a Heal on yourself (much less on anyone else). And with the best three spells on your class list being Mass Heal, Bladebarrier and Heal, and two of those *requiring* Quicken to be cast in combat at all...

I'm going to play around with dropping Extend for the first THF feat and maybe even Maximize for the second one, but I expect I'll come back to the feats I have now.

Yeah I tried dropping Extend...

Noticed it sucked on Divine Favor/Power.

It also made the Nytheros Kiting fight way tougher due to BB's lasting not very long.

Your BB's will seem uber short.

I like my Maximize for my CLW Mass and My BBs and Cometfalls/Searing Lights. The last 2 are paramount to breaking crystals in Part 2 of SHroud and Part 3 (when I attempt the Elite Duo)

I do like the new THF feats...I just can not fit them in.

[sirgog]

Got my Shard of the Sword of Shadows at last! Now all I need is the 1 in 80 chance of pulling the SoS item (or the ~60% chance of having it pop up on the 20th list soon)

Thanks k0ukla for the help in getting it!

[Boromirs]

Got my Shard of the Sword of Shadows at last! Now all I need is the 1 in 80 chance of pulling the SoS item (or the ~60% chance of having it pop up on the 20th list soon)

Thanks k0ukla for the help in getting it!

Short of the sword of shadows, a lit 2 greatsword is also nice. I recommend it over a min2 due to it's overall versatility (although of course and eSoS will be best).

[Boromirs]

BTW, how high can a fvs get his intimi on this build and on mutant builds?

[Warinx]

I think the intimihealer thread said about 60 buffed, so he sortof gave up on pureclassing it

[sirgog]

Just maintanked a 'naked' VoD - no armor, no items (so no Heavy Fort) and had no trouble holding aggro or staying alive.

Even managed to keep the 170hp, 0 fort naked Bard alive :)

[gott_ist_tot]

First of all - grats on a build more than solid.

I have but one thing to disagree with, and strongly - in my opinion this is an excellent new player build. There is maybe one thing which takes some skill - threat tanking. Being somewhat a central point in this build it may invalidate new player friendliness, true. But the rest... in my opinion (and experience) I'd go as far as to call it the new player build.

A new player will be at least able to generate a steady influx of cash by farming tapestries at levels low enough if anything. It will never get declined from Shrouds or other quests (compared to where's your bossbeaters problems of say monks), it will die less than others (healing and DR). If (a common thing for some new players) most of the time will be run solo, it can solo whatever can be soloed and gather larges on Sins. Easier than equivalent cleric build because of the DR. Eventually as fast as 15 minutes (with all opt. chests). So, a strong solo option in addition to healbot.

This build will stop beginner worrying about equipment and money for his squishy rogue alt. Except after playing it he may find out he doesn't want to play the rogue anymore.

A beginner could probably drop WF hate, picking up scroll mastery/WF PA 3. First learn to heal. Then learn to heal and fight at one time. Then respec for hate and start tanking.

P.S. UMD? You say fire shield. I say teleport!

//EDIT: Typo respect -> respec. But either is fine :)

[aristarchus1000]

It is relatively easy for a new player, simply because it is very self-sufficient and a solid build. One of the big problems with new players is that they think they can create their own builds before understanding all the mechanics of the game.

I don't know if I'd call it __THE__ new player build. It is certainly nice to play a simple dps character and use a cleric hireling to beat most of the quests in the game. The need for a healing amp does make it a bit more difficult to level compared to a fleshie, and I found my elf monk-splash favored soul easier to level and cap as my first character (I started out leveling both at the same time). The DR doesn't really benefit you until after you hit 20, and low ac can make the mid levels a bit rougher. I found that the breakthrough for me was taking empowered heal a little early to improve self-healing myself in-combat for earlier quests. It helped to have my capped monk/fvs to help fund my WF fvs build. I also had to learn some mechanics of the game like twitching and backing away and melee-kiting to take advantage of the increased THF reach, which may be tricky for a new player.

Whatever the case, I certainly agree that this is a great build, and now that I have some gear on him (Lit2, Torc) he is an awesome farmer. I really like the addition of hate-tanking to the standard WF FvS builds, so that it really take advantage of the WF FvS resiliency, and this build post is the reason I started leveling my WF FvS and eventually capped him. That said, anyone can level this character as a non-threat tanker at first and then do more threat-tanking after they find the requisite healing amp and threat amp gear.

[emptysands]

Where would you put the +6 CHA Skills GS? Googles with Lightening Strike to swap with Tharnes when tanking?

Although 300 SP is a big swing on an item that is switched.

[gott_ist_tot]

Where would you put the +6 CHA Skills GS? Googles with Lightening Strike to swap with Tharnes when tanking?

Although 300 SP is a big swing on an item that is switched.

That's what I did. But found out I'm rarely switching to Tharness and get kinda angry when I forget to switch back to GS when resting... but it'll come with time and I'll learn to manage it better. Goggles is a slot which does least harm when I forget it - mainly use UMD for teleporting and 300 sp loss on ~3000sp bauble/etc. build is forgivable occasionally.

[Boromirs]

What is the best Greensteel cloak for this build?

[Bacab]

What is the best Greensteel cloak for this build?

Cloak was first thing I made...

I went HP/SP/SP and Concord Opp

Second item I made were...

+5 Fort Save/HP/HP Earthgrab

I am going to make another pair of gloves that are

?/HP/HP Disentegrate Gaurd

And Goggles that are Lightning strike gaurd

The guard are for boss tanking.

I personally like Earthgrab for trash moreso than disentegration gaurd.

[Boromirs]

Cloak was first thing I made...

I went HP/SP/SP and Concord Opp

Second item I made were...

+5 Fort Save/HP/HP Earthgrab

I am going to make another pair of gloves that are

?/HP/HP Disentegrate Gaurd

And Goggles that are Lightning strike gaurd

The guard are for boss tanking.

I personally like Earthgrab for trash moreso than disentegration gaurd.

Heard Earthgrab has a save and doesn't quite proc as often as wanted... and that disintegration guard is better especially on epics?

[Bacab]

Heard Earthgrab has a save and doesn't quite proc as often as wanted... and that disintegration guard is better especially on epics?

500 HP on an epic isnt really much.

The save is Reflex and most mobs are suckers for ir. Also once earthgrab procs...everyone pops that mob fast.

[Boromirs]

500 HP on an epic isnt really much.

The save is Reflex and most mobs are suckers for ir. Also once earthgrab procs...everyone pops that mob fast.

hrm, so if Im doing mostly Raids (sometimes on hard/elite) and quite a bit of Epics...the earthgrab cloak is best then overall?

[Ardhiel]

ok i might be missing whats right in front of my face, but what are the base stats and stat increases on this build?
I assume all the increases are Str but i wanted to double check. also what is final wis?

[sirgog]

Heard Earthgrab has a save and doesn't quite proc as often as wanted... and that disintegration guard is better especially on epics?

Earthgrab is the best Shroud guard effect for trash in epics by an enormous margin. As such, I recommend it to toons whose main focus is melee DPS. Disintegration guard is better overall for this build, IMO, as it's more damage that makes holding aggro of raid bosses easier.

[Thrudh]

Also, this build simply would not work as a half-orc. The main reasons it is a Warforged are for the extra HP, for the extra DR, and for the Greatsword proficiency and melee bonuses - a halforc gets almost none of those.

A great build, but I still don't get why it won't work as a half-orc...

Half-orcs get Brute Fighting so they can hate tank... They don't need the Greatsword proficiency... They'll hit anyway, and can do as much damage as the WF...

Extra HP evens out with the higher healing amp of the Half-orc...

Really, the only main difference I see between the two is the extra DR and the immunities... Those are very nice, and probably tip the scales towards WarForged...

But I don't get why you think it "simply would not work" as a half-orc.

[sirgog]

But I don't get why you think it "simply would not work" as a half-orc.

Because half-orcs:

1) Can't reliably hit high AC bosses with a greatsword (unless using epic SoS with Power Attack off)
2) Can't survive a Disintegrate to the face unless at 100% hp beforehand, and can barely survive being tripped in melee by Epic Lailat
3) Can't get the same DR (I'm now running with 15 permanent DR on Numot)
4) Can't ignore a healing immunity curse

- in short, a half-orc FvS just won't work as a threat tank.

[Thrudh]

Because half-orcs:

1) Can't reliably hit high AC bosses with a greatsword (unless using epic SoS with Power Attack off)
2) Can't survive a Disintegrate to the face unless at 100% hp beforehand, and can barely survive being tripped in melee by Epic Lailat
3) Can't get the same DR (I'm now running with 15 permanent DR on Numot)
4) Can't ignore a healing immunity curse

- in short, a half-orc FvS just won't work as a threat tank.

(1) How much difference is there really in to-hit? Half-orcs are only -2 compared to FvS, right??

(2) How many more hps does a WF have over a half-orc, 40 or so (2 toughness enhancements, +2 CON, right)? Is that really the difference between surviving a disintegrate and dying?

(3) 10 DR compared to 15 DR... yes that is a nice advantage

(4) Very true... Big bonus to WF...

A WF is better for threat tanking, but a half-orc FvS can probably be decent at it...

[sirgog]

(1) How much difference is there really in to-hit? Half-orcs are only -2 compared to FvS, right??

(2) How many more hps does a WF have over a half-orc, 40 or so (2 toughness enhancements, +2 CON, right)? Is that really the difference between surviving a disintegrate and dying?

(3) 10 DR compared to 15 DR... yes that is a nice advantage

(4) Very true... Big bonus to WF...

A WF is better for threat tanking, but a half-orc FvS can probably be decent at it...

1) Half-orcs get -4 from non-proficiency and lose +2 from Lord of Blades enhancements. They gain +2 from Str. So -4 - which against a 64 AC Epic Lailat is probably 20% of your DPS down the toilet.

2) 60. 2 Toughness enhancements, 4 Con (2 racial, 2 enhancement). Last time I tanked Horoth, I ate a Disintegrate at the same time as a badge tick and was at ~30 hp - probably would have been a wipe with halforc.

3) It's not just nice, it's huge. Against epic Lailat, this and the HP are the difference between narrowly surviving ten hits and dying to the eighth.

I don't doubt that someone, somewhere will make an effective halforc melee FvS build. In many places it will be superior to this one. But it won't look like this build at all.

[Thrudh]

1) Half-orcs get -4 from non-proficiency and lose +2 from Lord of Blades enhancements. They gain +2 from Str. So -4 - which against a 64 AC Epic Lailat is probably 20% of your DPS down the toilet.

2) 60. 2 Toughness enhancements, 4 Con (2 racial, 2 enhancement). Last time I tanked Horoth, I ate a Disintegrate at the same time as a badge tick and was at ~30 hp - probably would have been a wipe with halforc.

3) It's not just nice, it's huge. Against epic Lailat, this and the HP are the difference between narrowly surviving ten hits and dying to the eighth.


I see your points... Sounds like WF is the way to go... especially if you want to tank Epic DQ


I don't doubt that someone, somewhere will make an effective halforc melee FvS build. In many places it will be superior to this one. But it won't look like this build at all.

Well, it will have 60 less hp, and 5 less DR, but otherwise it will look almost exactly the same... Same feats, close to the same enhancements...

[flipstre]

if i were to drop one feat for prof:greataxe or greatsword for epic SOS
wat feat should i drop

(btw sirgog did you get my pm)

thinking of 32 point HO

20/8/14/10/8/12

[Bacab]

Earthgrab is the best Shroud guard effect for trash in epics by an enormous margin. As such, I recommend it to toons whose main focus is melee DPS. Disintegration guard is better overall for this build, IMO, as it's more damage that makes holding aggro of raid bosses easier.

Yeah I am working on making Disentegration HP Gloves and Lightning Strike (good/lightning/lightning) Goggles for Hate tanking. (its really hard to get a decent "mini" gaurd with disentegration...so I will put HP on it)

I will use my Tharne's Goggles any other time and the Earth Grab HP Gloves also on trash or if doing slayers (once I TR again etc...)

I like the "Big" Gaurds on boss fights.

Tharne's Goggles are useless if hate-tanking. They are best if not hate-tanking.

I am also working on Exceptional Fire Resistance Belt and an Exceptional Cold resistance Belt (tier 2 on both). Those will be for certain fights where I need that Resistance and I will be in my Mindsunder Docent. Though I AM working on acquiring Red Dragonscale Docent. Not sure what/where I will get 6 CON and GFL/SFL once I swap to the Red Dragonscale Docent...

[Ardhiel]

can you post this whole build, like off the char builder or something just so all the starting stats/ability increases/skill increases etc can be seen? Im not having lots of luck pulling it all together bit by bit from this thread

[Boromirs]

WF also has that arcane healing ability which Im actually preferring when my WF fighter tanks. Further, they are beginning to roll out "Fort Dependent" items like the brande new Blade of Fury (which could possibly compete with the eSoS once unlocked). And there would be probably be monsters that can negate part of a characters fort which would further tilt the scales toward WF.

Overall, I see a "Balanced" instead of a "RAGE till I run out of HP" race being WF. But even still, in terms of absolute shear brutal damage a Horc Frenzied Berserker would be a sight to see.

[Aegnore]

is a starting charisma of 10 viable for this build to give points to INT.. ? - making it 12 at start then at level 7, i can eat a +2 tome for a total of 14... so in that way i can get concentration, UMD and balance early then jump at levels past 7?

[aristarchus1000]

is a starting charisma of 10 viable for this build to give points to INT.. ? - making it 12 at start then at level 7, i can eat a +2 tome for a total of 14... so in that way i can get concentration, UMD and balance early then jump at levels past 7?

It is viable in the end-game, although you might have a challenge here or there in the early levels keeping your charisma high enough to cast spells, so you will have to make sure you are wearing the best charisma item possible, or using some enhancements points early on.

In the end, you will be a little vulnerable unless you spend some APs on charisma (it's only 2, but I find AP's a little tight in this build).

For abbot raid and disjunction (so your items just got negated):
Starting 10 Charisma, +2 Tome, +2 capstone = 14. If you cast Eagle Splendor (+4) goes to 18, which means you can't cast Mass Heal. You could take the +1 enhancements on charisma for 2 APs to prevent that occurance. I suppose you can also just bring multiple charisma items but I haven't tried that approach.

Hope this helps.

[shortmuff]

one question. when putting points into umd and con.. im doing this Skills: Max Concentration and UMD.
Should i just putt 1 point into con and 1 point into umd each lvl?

Im new at this, since it also says putt rest of points into balance and jump. But at every lvl i get 2 points and they go into con and umd.

so what is max i should putt into con and umd? or what is max i can putt into it.. As i say im new at this ))

Hope this makes any sense at all..

[AylinIsAwesome]

Hey sirgog, why did you choose Epic Red Dragonscale over the Ravager Set (since they won't work together)? As far as I know, nothing is immune to the damage from the Ravager set.

For a DPS comparison between the two:

Ravager deals 7 damage on 2-20, so 6.65 average per swing.

With a Mineral 2, epic Dragonscale deals 3.5 on 2-16, and 9 on 17-20, for 4.425 average damage.

With the eSoS, epic Dragonscale is 3.5 on 2-14, and 14.5 on 15-20, so 6.625 average damage.


I know the Dragonscale will do more damage in auto-crit situations, but in most cases I can't imagine it shaving off more than a second against most things, and the Ravager set will work on Horoth. Is the Incineration guard that good?

[AylinIsAwesome]

one question. when putting points into umd and con.. im doing this Skills: Max Concentration and UMD.
Should i just putt 1 point into con and 1 point into umd each lvl?

Im new at this, since it also says putt rest of points into balance and jump. But at every lvl i get 2 points and they go into con and umd.

so what is max i should putt into con and umd? or what is max i can putt into it.. As i say im new at this ))

Hope this makes any sense at all..

Since concentration is a class skill, 23 is the max rank. Since UMD is not a class skill, 11.5 is your max rank. However, 11.5 is just the same as 11, so cap UMD at 11 and put that last skill point somewhere else.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

Since concentration is a class skill, 23 is the max rank. Since UMD is not a class skill, 11.5 is your max rank. However, 11.5 is just the same as 11, so cap UMD at 11 and put that last skill point somewhere else.

It's also assumed that you use a +2 int tome at level 7, so you will get an additional skill point per level at level 8 and beyond.

[shortmuff]

hmm i didnt do that at lvl7 bugger. ofc there was something i didnt know about.. im lvl11 now. so guess that 4 points i dont get... Se if I can get a tome when auction stuff gets back online.. thanks for info.

[Celestialbeast]

Thanks for the Build sirgog. I have started one of these and just got level 10. It's incredibly funny to be the "Healer", lead the kill count and have the most hitpoints even in the low levels. I think the most fun I've had was outkilling 2 barbarians in delera's with a Maul of PG (-4 to hit), no divine power/favor on, and keeping them all alive. Now I just need to work out my gear because my set up is far different from what you recommend. And because of that I have just one question...

If a person (read: me) didn't have red fens and wished to go with the Quarforged docent of battle, would it be ok to not have any threat gear and just use brute fighting?

Once again Thanks!

[sirgog]

Thanks for the Build sirgog. I have started one of these and just got level 10. It's incredibly funny to be the "Healer", lead the kill count and have the most hitpoints even in the low levels. I think the most fun I've had was outkilling 2 barbarians in delera's with a Maul of PG (-4 to hit), no divine power/favor on, and keeping them all alive. Now I just need to work out my gear because my set up is far different from what you recommend. And because of that I have just one question...

If a person (read: me) didn't have red fens and wished to go with the Quarforged docent of battle, would it be ok to not have any threat gear and just use brute fighting?

Once again Thanks!

In weaker groups (i.e. you outgear the party) - yes.

In stronger groups - no, you'll lose aggro.

In my experience you do ~75% of the damage of a 'traditional' melee class. Adding 25% from Brute Fighting makes your threat 93.75% (still a little behind). Add 10% from non-epic Claw set and you are over 100% of the threat output - adding guards keep you well ahead.

[Boromirs]

Curious, Docent of Defiance would be pretty useless for this toon since you already get 15 DR CONSTANT...correct?

Further, barring red dragon armor (I just refuse to grind for these again since my main already has one) what comes a close second in terms of docent?

Finally, how subpar will a Lit2 greatsword be to a eSoS in general usage (again refuse to grind for eSoS again due to my main having one).

Thanks for any suggestions.

[sirgog]

Curious, Docent of Defiance would be pretty useless for this toon since you already get 15 DR CONSTANT...correct?

Further, barring red dragon armor (I just refuse to grind for these again since my main already has one) what comes a close second in terms of docent?

Finally, how subpar will a Lit2 greatsword be to a eSoS in general usage (again refuse to grind for eSoS again due to my main having one).

Thanks for any suggestions.

The other docents to consider are Quorcraft Docent of Battle and/or Healing Amp 10/Healing Amp 20/Incite 20 Dragontouched (if you have the 20 healing amp elsewhere, go for either Incite 15 or a retributive damage guard).

I use the latter frequently - basically, against any foes that the Eternal Fire doesn't help on and/or that Superior Fire Resistance isn't needed to survive against and/or that Healing Amp is needed on. (I don't have the Incite rune yet)

[JDCrowell]

Seriously new to FVS here and I'm highly interested in rolling this build but I do have one question....

Doesn't the effectiveness of your BB depend on you WIS for a DC, or is that just other offensive spells that need a high DC to be effective?

[sirgog]

Seriously new to FVS here and I'm highly interested in rolling this build but I do have one question....

Doesn't the effectiveness of your BB depend on you WIS for a DC, or is that just other offensive spells that need a high DC to be effective?

BB does half damage on a successful save (many divine spells do nothing at all on a save).

A half-damage BB is still situationally useful - it slows down killing, but the mobs still die. It's best against foes that can't do much to you from range, that move a lot and that don't have evasion - most Orthons, Barbazu, humanoid melee types (like some foes in the Inspired Quarter) and many undead fit this bill.

[Zodh]

Was typing an answer and DING, got a new mail - "sirgog has just replied to a thread..."

[JDCrowell]

BB does half damage on a successful save (many divine spells do nothing at all on a save).

A half-damage BB is still situationally useful - it slows down killing, but the mobs still die. It's best against foes that can't do much to you from range, that move a lot and that don't have evasion - most Orthons, Barbazu, humanoid melee types (like some foes in the Inspired Quarter) and many undead fit this bill.

Ahh ok...very nice.

I'm seeing more and more why you like this build so much :)

[Warinx]

Key defensive stats with this gear setup:

HP - 607 standing, 667 with sustainable selfbuffs (Rage potion, Yugoloth Con potion) with a +3 or better Con tome. 587 standing is easy to achieve.
Threat - 162.5% of base (x1.3 from Greater Vulkoor's Might set, x1.25 from WF Brute Fighting 4). Optionally x1.15 from Defender set
DR - 13 (15 if you take Adamantine Body, which is really tough to afford feats-wise and causes occasional Fire Shield scroll fails - if you take it, sacrifice Extend)
Incoming Healing - 100% Arcane, 117% Divine (128.7% with guild buffs)
Resists - 50-65 Fire (65 if equipping a fire resist Shroud item, 50 otherwise, undispellable), 40 Electric, 40 Cold, 30 Sonic, 30 Acid (depending upon your Shroud item setup, these may or may not be dispellable). In particular, you will largely laugh off Meteor Swarms, taking a mere ~150 damage where other toons may take 280.
Saves - vary greatly based on item setup and buffs. These are at the lower end of what tanks should have.
Guards - Incineration, Fire, plus any you Shroud-craft (which should include Concordant Opposition, Lightning Strike and Disintegration).

Would you mind sharing how big your SP pool is Sigrog(or other WF FvSers)? I seem to be lacking some SP compared to other fvs builds. Can't imagine it's all because of 6 more charisma.

[sirgog]

Would you mind sharing how big your SP pool is Sigrog(or other WF FvSers)? I seem to be lacking some SP compared to other fvs builds. Can't imagine it's all because of 6 more charisma.

Somewhere in the 2600s, I can't remember. About 100 less than builds with all the SP enhancements, several hundred less than those with Mental Toughness, but that feat isn't worth taking even on a healbot.

Have you got a Shroud item? That's a big source of SP on a FvS.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Here's a pic of Epic Bracers of the Claw from the live servers. It seems they were changed a bit from Llama. Not sure how this affects everyone else's gear setup, but it pushed me over the top to use Epic Red Dragonscale (since it will now apparently stack with Ravager set, with Toughness in Blue), and I need to think of a good slot for Greater False Life.


http://i54.tinypic.com/2q9anis.jpg

[Dwarfo]

i dont know if someone alrdy asked this, but would this build be good 18 fvs 2 monk? just for evasion?

answer appreciated :D

[AylinIsAwesome]

i dont know if someone alrdy asked this, but would this build be good 18 fvs 2 monk? just for evasion?

answer appreciated :D

Not this one, since it wants the 13 DR at level 20.

[lethargos]

I liked your ”challenge yuorself” section. Refreshing presentation compared to other builds you see constantlyon the forums.

[Warinx]

Somewhere in the 2600s, I can't remember. About 100 less than builds with all the SP enhancements, several hundred less than those with Mental Toughness, but that feat isn't worth taking even on a healbot.

Have you got a Shroud item? That's a big source of SP on a FvS.

Last tier of shroud item would get me over 2600s. Just so many FvSers say they're sporting 3k etc ;P Thanks for the honesty.

[sirgog]

Last tier of shroud item would get me over 2600s. Just so many FvSers say they're sporting 3k etc ;P Thanks for the honesty.

They can hit that, if they waste feats on Mental Toughness and/or invest enormous amounts of build points into CHA and AP into Energy of the Zealot lines.

It costs a lot, however.

[Matuse]

11 Base + 2 enhancement + 6 item + 2 capstone + 1 tome = 22 Cha
Archmagi = 400
Shroud SP = 300
Full "energy of" AP line.

That's 2754 SP. Plenty. No need to burn feats, or spend excessive stat points in Cha.

[FunkyWa2C]

I have followed all of the conversation regarding this buiild with keen interest and understanding except on this one point: why a Min II Quarterstaff instead of a Min II Greatsword?

Perhaps I display overt newbness in asking such, but as Tier 3 mats are still precious to me, I do not wish to make a "mistake" due to lack of information/wisdom.

I understand that the true DPS for this build will derive from the use of the Epic Sword of Shadow and perhaps that's the answer right there, plain and simple. However, if someone would be so kind as to give me a greater understanding as to why the use of a Min II QS "would be better than" the use of a Min II GS (on a build that takes enhancements for GS: LoB, GS Specialization, etc.), I would be most appreciative. I just need some experienced insight. Thanks.

[Zodh]

I don't see the reason either: staff got less dps and looks retarted on a WF.
In fact, my 1st greensteel was lightningII and that's only because I like that lightning strike and I'm not a fan of tanking on this build. For me it's just fully capable healer with decent DPS, that can be in the middle of a group doing damage and throwing masses, switchin to healbot mode when necessary.

[Nyvn]

I have followed all of the conversation regarding this buiild with keen interest and understanding except on this one point: why a Min II Quarterstaff instead of a Min II Greatsword?

Perhaps I display overt newbness in asking such, but as Tier 3 mats are still precious to me, I do not wish to make a "mistake" due to lack of information/wisdom.

I understand that the true DPS for this build will derive from the use of the Epic Sword of Shadow and perhaps that's the answer right there, plain and simple. However, if someone would be so kind as to give me a greater understanding as to why the use of a Min II QS "would be better than" the use of a Min II GS (on a build that takes enhancements for GS: LoB, GS Specialization, etc.), I would be most appreciative. I just need some experienced insight. Thanks.



A Min 2 greatsword, eSOS, adamantine blunt weapon and double/triple positive q-staff is a fine alternative weapon setup.

The Min 2 staff comes in most handy in content like Epic Wiz-King, where it's a good damage dealer that's also study enough (due to the extra hardness for being Mineral) to handle being whacked against golems, skeletons, and a lich over and over.

So he's trying to reduce the number of weapons he carries, while still being able to break DR when needed. So Hard/Elite VOD, TOD, SOS, Abbot, Epics, and anything else that I missed. FVS have proficiency with so you don't take a hit on to hit, which matters when doing hard/elite/epics. If you're running normal Shroud/VOD/TOD use your Lit II GS since it does better DPS on normal.

[sirgog]

So he's trying to reduce the number of weapons he carries, while still being able to break DR when needed. So Hard/Elite VOD, TOD, SOS, Abbot, Epics, and anything else that I missed. FVS have proficiency with so you don't take a hit on to hit, which matters when doing hard/elite/epics. If you're running normal Shroud/VOD/TOD use your Lit II GS since it does better DPS on normal.

That's correct.

Once fully geared use:

Shroud/VoD/ToD norm or hard, epic DQ2: Epic SoS

Shroud/VoD/ToD elite: Min 2 staff

Sor'jek, Epic Wiz-king, Abbot: Min 2 staff

Epic Clay Golems: Min 2 staff (about the only thing that breaks their DR)


Of course, if you prefer to craft a Pos/Pos/Pos blunt weapon and a Min 2 greatsword, or an Epic Hammer of Life and Min 2 greatsword, or a +5 Holy Silver greatsword, a +5 Holy Cold Iron greatsword and a +4 Greater Undead Bane ¼staff, go ahead.

[Aegnore]

I've TR'd from a cleric to this build. So far so Good. Im level 11 now and I'm enjoying contributing to the DPS of the party.

One thing that I just noticed is that people usually stereotypes FVS.. some people expects fvs to have wis and decent amounts of cha.

I joined a Xorian Cipher quest once then this guy kept telling me that i should have a higher CHA for my spells and my SP, I kept telling him 12 is enough already and still he kept saying it should be higher. lol. and even emphasized he knows a lot bout Favored Souls.

Then another person on a different quest was suprised that WIS was my dumpstat and kept telling me that i should have a higher WIS coz I am a FVS. lol again..

Then at the end of the quests they just stop talking; when they were kept alive by a Fvs who is actually doing the most number of kills in the party.. :)

[Theodores]

Capped and loving it. Really survivable and solid hp even if not shroud geared yet.

Anyway i have a question, why go with a min II staff? will it break DR better than a Min II greatsword? I never heard of a boss that had dr/ silver, good and bludgeon...

[AylinIsAwesome]

Capped and loving it. Really survivable and solid hp even if not shroud geared yet.

Anyway i have a question, why go with a min II staff? will it break DR better than a Min II greatsword? I never heard of a boss that had dr/ silver, good and bludgeon...

Me made it since his eSoS is his main weapon for most things, and you need Bludgeon for liches (Sorjek, Abbot, Wizard King) and clay golems.

[Theodores]

hmm ok... I understand now. Still too short on mats to craft a wep for specific ennemy. I will probably stick with my min II greatsword, my lit II and i will start to farm my eSoS. thanks for the answer even if there was already 3 people who asked the same question.

[AylinIsAwesome]

hmm ok... I understand now. Still too short on mats to craft a wep for specific ennemy. I will probably stick with my min II greatsword, my lit II and i will start to farm my eSoS. thanks for the answer even if there was already 3 people who asked the same question.

I was in a good mood. :p

[sirgog]

I've TR'd from a cleric to this build. So far so Good. Im level 11 now and I'm enjoying contributing to the DPS of the party.

One thing that I just noticed is that people usually stereotypes FVS.. some people expects fvs to have wis and decent amounts of cha.

I joined a Xorian Cipher quest once then this guy kept telling me that i should have a higher CHA for my spells and my SP, I kept telling him 12 is enough already and still he kept saying it should be higher. lol. and even emphasized he knows a lot bout Favored Souls.

Then another person on a different quest was suprised that WIS was my dumpstat and kept telling me that i should have a higher WIS coz I am a FVS. lol again..

Then at the end of the quests they just stop talking; when they were kept alive by a Fvs who is actually doing the most number of kills in the party.. :)


Expectations of FvS's change with levels.

Brand new players (level 1-10 and on their first toon) almost always expect a healbot.
Less new players (multiple mid level toons) usually expect a Wisdom build.
Endgame players expect different things.

I look at the race and pure/multiclass status of an FvS and can usually tell what to expect:

WF FvS20 - melee/healer hybrid, medium DPS, high survivability, Wisdom dumped
Elf FvS18/Mnk2 - melee/healer hybrid, medium to high DPS, medium survivability, stat arrays vary. Some very rare ones have meaningful AC.
Other race FvS20 - healer/caster hybrid, low melee DPS if any, maxxed Wisdom
Deep multiclass builds - *usually* a gimped toon.

[Aegnore]

In relation to the previous posts.

In my past life, I have crafted a Greensteel Greatsword mineral up to tier II only coz I dont want to waste my large stones making the wrong tier III weapon

So now im seriously considering making a staff instead of finishing my Greatsword, so which is better in terms of dps triple pos staff or a minera II staff?

[AylinIsAwesome]

In relation to the previous posts.

In my past life, I have crafted a Greensteel Greatsword mineral up to tier II only coz I dont want to waste my large stones making the wrong tier III weapon

So now im seriously considering making a staff instead of finishing my Greatsword, so which is better in terms of dps triple pos staff or a minera II staff?

I'll be doing Greatsword on my WF FvS, and a triple positive staff later for liches.

A big part of that is I don't even have the base Sword of Shadows yet though. :p VON has not been kind to this character.

[sirgog]

In relation to the previous posts.

In my past life, I have crafted a Greensteel Greatsword mineral up to tier II only coz I dont want to waste my large stones making the wrong tier III weapon

So now im seriously considering making a staff instead of finishing my Greatsword, so which is better in terms of dps triple pos staff or a minera II staff?

A Min 2 GS is a fine weapon to have - you will be fine if you make a Min 2 GS and a double/triple positive blunt weapon (or just look for a +3 holy greater undead bane quarterstaff or similar)

[Nyvn]

A Min 2 GS is a fine weapon to have - you will be fine if you make a Min 2 GS and a double/triple positive blunt weapon (or just look for a +3 holy greater undead bane quarterstaff or similar)

The only thing you'll miss with this setup is Blunt/Adamantine.

[sirgog]

The only thing you'll miss with this setup is Blunt/Adamantine.

Yep. Since the epic DR changes way back in update 3, I no longer mind bashing epic clay golems without DR breakers. (Their DR went from 40 or 50 down to 20).

[JDCrowell]

Need a little advice from you fellow Soul Survivors:

Got my FvS up to level 14 now. I really have blasted my way from lvl 4 as a vet char to level 14. (4-10 in just a few days)

Now maybe I'm overreacting a bit now, but from levels 4-12 it seemed like nothing could touch me and I was out DPSing most parties I was in and keeping them alive. It was a ton of fun, but levels 13 and 14 have been a bit more challenging. I wonder if I've either out leveled my gear and weapons too fast, or there are some playstyle tricks I need to learn because I seem to take a lot of damage. Now I don't die hardly ever, but it's not uncommon for me to get down to 25% health after a short time on the front lines.

Please note that even though I read your disclaimer that this build is intended to be build from a TR, I am not so I'm not running with any Shroud gear or weapons. It is a 32pt build and I mirror this build very closely.

Now I can think of a couple of things that might help me here.
1. Lack of Empower for my BB's
2. Is it really easier to solo with this build at this level than run in a party?

I'm really having to change my mindset on how I play because my main is an Exploiter and I'm not used to taking a lot of damage lol. Plus, I've never played a Cleric and wasn't always playing the healbot role early on as much as I should, but I do a darn good job of keeping everyone alive.

So any hint or tips would be appreciated. I've yet to try to solo GH quests and have only ran Trial by Fire in a group on Hard and Elite. Also, took a lot of damage running DQ flagging quests too...hmm so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Crowell

[Nyvn]

Need a little advice from you fellow Soul Survivors:

Got my FvS up to level 14 now. I really have blasted my way from lvl 4 as a vet char to level 14. (4-10 in just a few days)

Now maybe I'm overreacting a bit now, but from levels 4-12 it seemed like nothing could touch me and I was out DPSing most parties I was in and keeping them alive. It was a ton of fun, but levels 13 and 14 have been a bit more challenging. I wonder if I've either out leveled my gear and weapons too fast, or there are some playstyle tricks I need to learn because I seem to take a lot of damage. Now I don't die hardly ever, but it's not uncommon for me to get down to 25% health after a short time on the front lines.

Please note that even though I read your disclaimer that this build is intended to be build from a TR, I am not so I'm not running with any Shroud gear or weapons. It is a 32pt build and I mirror this build very closely.

Now I can think of a couple of things that might help me here.
1. Lack of Empower for my BB's
2. Is it really easier to solo with this build at this level than run in a party?

I'm really having to change my mindset on how I play because my main is an Exploiter and I'm not used to taking a lot of damage lol. Plus, I've never played a Cleric and wasn't always playing the healbot role early on as much as I should, but I do a darn good job of keeping everyone alive.

So any hint or tips would be appreciated. I've yet to try to solo GH quests and have only ran Trial by Fire in a group on Hard and Elite. Also, took a lot of damage running DQ flagging quests too...hmm so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Crowell

Do you have the Adamantine Body feat and the associated enhancements? That will help reduce the damage you're taking. Also GH is where monsters start hitting hard, it's very different from the content prior.

[JDCrowell]

Do you have the Adamantine Body feat and the associated enhancements? That will help reduce the damage you're taking. Also GH is where monsters start hitting hard, it's very different from the content prior.

No, I didn't take Adamantine Body when I started. I have all the feats that Sirgog outlined in his build except that I took Extend before Maximize.

I can't picture a FvS with that much plating for one, and I already run slow enough as it is. But, if it really helps that much, I might consider LRing to change that. (dunno if Fred can give me that one)

Against elements and elementals, this build can just stand there and take it, but melee damage is another thing. Maybe I'll start by exchanging Extend with Maximize and see if that helps my BB and mitigate the damage I take.

[Nyvn]

Well DR 5 helps when you're leveling up. You could alternatively get the Blood Rage Symbiont.

Also note that Sigrog's build choices are for level 20 and geared out.

[Aegnore]

Need a little advice from you fellow Soul Survivors:

Got my FvS up to level 14 now. I really have blasted my way from lvl 4 as a vet char to level 14. (4-10 in just a few days)

Now maybe I'm overreacting a bit now, but from levels 4-12 it seemed like nothing could touch me and I was out DPSing most parties I was in and keeping them alive. It was a ton of fun, but levels 13 and 14 have been a bit more challenging. I wonder if I've either out leveled my gear and weapons too fast, or there are some playstyle tricks I need to learn because I seem to take a lot of damage. Now I don't die hardly ever, but it's not uncommon for me to get down to 25% health after a short time on the front lines.

Please note that even though I read your disclaimer that this build is intended to be build from a TR, I am not so I'm not running with any Shroud gear or weapons. It is a 32pt build and I mirror this build very closely.

Now I can think of a couple of things that might help me here.
1. Lack of Empower for my BB's
2. Is it really easier to solo with this build at this level than run in a party?

I'm really having to change my mindset on how I play because my main is an Exploiter and I'm not used to taking a lot of damage lol. Plus, I've never played a Cleric and wasn't always playing the healbot role early on as much as I should, but I do a darn good job of keeping everyone alive.

So any hint or tips would be appreciated. I've yet to try to solo GH quests and have only ran Trial by Fire in a group on Hard and Elite. Also, took a lot of damage running DQ flagging quests too...hmm so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Crowell

IMO you need not always be in the front line... remember one of the beauty of this build is that it is flexible; making your favored soul a dps and a healer at the same time. So when at times you feel that you arent doing enough damage or getting hit pretty badly, I think it is wise to cool down on the aggression and focus more on heals and do the occasional melee when the opportunity arise...

Remember this build is far different from your usual dps builds...

[Dwarfo]

well, TRd my halfling healbot into this build a few days ago and am loving it. i just have 1 question..

2 monk or 20 fvs?

ive been seeing alot of those WF 18 fvs 2monk builds, and am wondering if i should take that 2 monk for the evasion/stance.

thoughts?

[Nyvn]

well, TRd my halfling healbot into this build a few days ago and am loving it. i just have 1 question..

2 monk or 20 fvs?

ive been seeing alot of those WF 18 fvs 2monk builds, and am wondering if i should take that 2 monk for the evasion/stance.

thoughts?

2 monk is better for TWF where the build is short on feats. IMO the capstone DR is better for this build than 2 feats.

[Itachi83]

No, I didn't take Adamantine Body when I started. I have all the feats that Sirgog outlined in his build except that I took Extend before Maximize.

I can't picture a FvS with that much plating for one, and I already run slow enough as it is. But, if it really helps that much, I might consider LRing to change that. (dunno if Fred can give me that one)

Against elements and elementals, this build can just stand there and take it, but melee damage is another thing. Maybe I'll start by exchanging Extend with Maximize and see if that helps my BB and mitigate the damage I take.

Would recommend reading this:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=263354

for information about gear and such.
OFC not all this is required because his diaries are very extensively focused on twink gear, and some solo gear playstyle.

But it is relevant.

[emptysands]

Got my FvS up to level 14 now. I really have blasted my way from lvl 4 as a vet char to level 14. (4-10 in just a few days)


Got to Temple of Vod and Blade Barrier everything.

[JDCrowell]

Got to Temple of Vod and Blade Barrier everything.

Temple of Vol you mean? Yea, I think I'm going to re evaluate my gear set up and then try to solo some stuff ....might even exchange extend for maximize

[aristarchus1000]

Temple of Vol you mean? Yea, I think I'm going to re evaluate my gear set up and then try to solo some stuff ....might even exchange extend for maximize

I used a Bloodrage Symbiont combined with a Blademark Docent while leveling all the way to 20. I wasn't very squishie at all. DR of 5 with a Lifeshield proccing rather frequently.

You don't need empower, but you may need to learn how to use blade barrier effectively. With just maximize I found that I was able to pretty easily solo most of all the same content I was doing on my Evoker (wis based) FvS. Undead content like Temple of Vol is particularly easy, since undead tend to have terrible reflex saves.

[sirgog]

And finally - Epic Sword of Shadows made.

Socketed with Red Augment Crystal of Devil's Ruin for now :) - once that one expires, I'll use any other temporary augments that I find that add good alignment.

The DPS increase was astonishing. Suddenly misses are a thing of the past, and held mobs die fast. Next Shroud I'll try to run in a purely melee role, and video part 4 so I can count the damage dealt in a full pass.

[Consumer]

And finally - Epic Sword of Shadows made.

Socketed with Red Augment Crystal of Devil's Ruin for now :) - once that one expires, I'll use any other temporary augments that I find that add good alignment.

The DPS increase was astonishing. Suddenly misses are a thing of the past, and held mobs die fast. Next Shroud I'll try to run in a purely melee role, and video part 4 so I can count the damage dealt in a full pass.

Congratulations and it better be twitching all the way through.

[Nyvn]

And finally - Epic Sword of Shadows made.

Socketed with Red Augment Crystal of Devil's Ruin for now :) - once that one expires, I'll use any other temporary augments that I find that add good alignment.

The DPS increase was astonishing. Suddenly misses are a thing of the past, and held mobs die fast. Next Shroud I'll try to run in a purely melee role, and video part 4 so I can count the damage dealt in a full pass.

Now that would be worth watching.

[fsupps]

I hope this isn’t a silly question but would it be dumb to TR a warforged fs into a warforged fs. The reason why I ask is because at level 19 I cannot use fire shield or teleport scrolls and wasn’t sure if it was because I started new. My umd is 16 and I sure I maxed it at every level. Thanks in advance.

[sirgog]

I hope this isn’t a silly question but would it be dumb to TR a warforged fs into a warforged fs. The reason why I ask is because at level 19 I cannot use fire shield or teleport scrolls and wasn’t sure if it was because I started new. My umd is 16 and I sure I maxed it at every level. Thanks in advance.

Buffs will make that higher. Greater Heroism and (temporarily) equipping a Golden Cartouche will get you high enough to use those scrolls (with a significant failure chance, but not a crippling one).

[fsupps]

Thanks for the quick response. As for true resurrection into the same thing, would it be silly. I really like playing this toon, so much so that I haven't played any of my other guys in sometime. I’m not thinking of TR anytime soon just wondering if it was dumb. Thanks again.

[sirgog]

Thanks for the quick response. As for true resurrection into the same thing, would it be silly. I really like playing this toon, so much so that I haven't played any of my other guys in sometime. I’m not thinking of TR anytime soon just wondering if it was dumb. Thanks again.

You gain a little from a FvS past life, but some other past lives will help you more. If you are considering TRing, try to get a Belt of the Mroranon and a Lit 2 greatsword first, they will help you tremendously post-TR.

[fsupps]

Thanks for all the great info. I'm on my way to the lit 2 great sword, well I have the greensteel great sword made, one of my problems is no matter how many time I run plane of night I get no named items, but I'll keep running them. Still trying to get the sword of shadows. Again thanks for the quick replies and all the useful info.

[Theodores]

And finally - Epic Sword of Shadows made.

Socketed with Red Augment Crystal of Devil's Ruin for now :) - once that one expires, I'll use any other temporary augments that I find that add good alignment.

The DPS increase was astonishing. Suddenly misses are a thing of the past, and held mobs die fast. Next Shroud I'll try to run in a purely melee role, and video part 4 so I can count the damage dealt in a full pass.

Yea still got to farm it. I calculated what would happen with it and it's pretty tasty.

But what I would like to try is dps'ing harry while solo healing a pug... challenge! i could add hate tanking to it but let's remain in the realm of possible

[aristarchus1000]

Yea still got to farm it. I calculated what would happen with it and it's pretty tasty.

But what I would like to try is dps'ing harry while solo healing a pug... challenge! i could add hate tanking to it but let's remain in the realm of possible

I've done it, it isn't particularly hard, although you have to accept that your DPS will get interrupted with frequent casting. I generally get 2 swings in between mass-heals, etc. It is definitely harder if some people in the group are squishy and need more than just Mass Heals off timer.

I generally try to stay in the middle and get hit to get some mana back via Torc+Conn-op, even if I'm not swinging much. Easily last almost 3 rounds of spamming Mass Heals. With 580 hitpoints and firestorms greaves with 13 DR, I have basically no chance of randomly dying on normal Shroud runs, even on a failed save.

Haven't experimented as much on Hard or Elite.

I don't think I could hate tank though, just because my dps gets interrupted too much.

[sirgog]

I've done it, it isn't particularly hard, although you have to accept that your DPS will get interrupted with frequent casting. I generally get 2 swings in between mass-heals, etc. It is definitely harder if some people in the group are squishy and need more than just Mass Heals off timer.

I generally try to stay in the middle and get hit to get some mana back via Torc+Conn-op, even if I'm not swinging much. Easily last almost 3 rounds of spamming Mass Heals. With 580 hitpoints and firestorms greaves with 13 DR, I have basically no chance of randomly dying on normal Shroud runs, even on a failed save.

Haven't experimented as much on Hard or Elite.

I don't think I could hate tank though, just because my dps gets interrupted too much.

Hate tanking isn't compatible with mainhealing in any halfway decent group, but you can certainly throw an emergency heal while hate tanking (I've thrown heals on the Horoth tank following a Blasphemy while tanking Suulo, for instance; I've also thrown Mass Cures while threat tanking Suulo in both VoD and ToD.) But in general, if you are threat tanking, you aren't doing much healing - just as at lower level, a paladin that's holding Sor'jek's aggro in Tempest's Spine will throw Lay on Hands to keep someone from dying but won't be wandwhipping the group.


As for Harry, I've solohealed part 4 elite while meleeing - I spend about 30-40% of my time casting heal spells (Mass Heal mainly) and the rest swinging. This was a pretty high DPS group (2 passes) with solid melees however. On Elite Shroud, you pretty much won't die - in one failed run I was the last one standing after a horrid lagspike and kept meleeing Harry for two passes (trying to complete solo) until I realised that the gnoll healing was more than my damage output in a pass. This build is terrible at swatting those gnolls on elite.

[DiNo2012]

Initial stats (34 point build; these include racial modifiers): 18 Str (plus all level ups), 8 Dex, 18 Con, 10 Int, 6 Wis, 12 Cha. 28/32 point builds sacrifice some Strength, 36 point builds can splash out on another skill by upping Int by 2.

Not sure if this was stated or mentioned, but would like a repeat and clarification:


As for 32 point builds would you suggest?:
16/8/18/14/6/12

And would you need a 19 CHA for Lvl 9 spells, if so that would require a +5 or higher CHA item, depending on the tome used?

[fsupps]

Alright just made lvl 20, got my min II quarterstaff to tier II and my lit II greatsword started. Now need to get epic items start and some more greensteel items. Thanks for all the great info and help this is by far my favorite toon to play. thanks again.

[JDCrowell]

Not sure if this was stated or mentioned, but would like a repeat and clarification:


As for 32 point builds would you suggest?:
16/8/18/14/6/12

And would you need a 19 CHA for Lvl 9 spells, if so that would require a +5 or higher CHA item, depending on the tome used?

I started my build as a 32pt character. Starting stats were:

17 STR
8 DEX
18 CON
11 INT
6 WIS
12 CHA

I wanted to get it as close as I possibly could w/o sacrificing much. The 11 Int was so I could get my hands on a +1 Tome early on to put points into jump. My alt is an Exploiter ...hard not being able to reach places easily.
The 17 STR kept it as close in Melee dmg as I could get to on 32pts with the extra skill point.
I just reached level 17 and could not be happier. Tons of fun to play and my BB's rip through the vale even with half damage.

I've gotten the feel and timing of my wings and spent time in the Mabar event celebrating my new found gift. With mass cure spells and a PG Quarterstaff, I was tearing things up out there. Plus the wings let me get to things faster than everyone else :) The event is a bit boring at times and can take some time to get what you need, but having 3 Divine Casters and an Arcane in the group made it so much easier.

The advice on the Blademark Docent and the Bloodrage Symbiont were amazing. I am not not as squishie as before and can sometimes change to my Bloodstone when I need some xtra dps.

[Warinx]

And finally - Epic Sword of Shadows made. Grats man, Looking forward to even more updates =D

[AtomicMew]

Possible noob question: what is the point of maximize? On my lvl 20 cleric, the only time I find myself using maximize is for blade barrier and radiant burst. Seems like it would be a good idea to swap it out once you hit lvl 20, especially on a wis-dumped build like this.

[sirgog]

Possible noob question: what is the point of maximize? On my lvl 20 cleric, the only time I find myself using maximize is for blade barrier and radiant burst. Seems like it would be a good idea to swap it out once you hit lvl 20, especially on a wis-dumped build like this.

Mass Cures when grouped; soloing Sins of Attrition the Bladebarrier helps too.

[AtomicMew]

Mass Cures when grouped;
I don't see it. Cure Critical, Mass is already a 200+ heal without maximize. 400+ is just going to be overhealing everyone, and for that, you have Heal, Mass which is more mana efficient, anyway.

[sirgog]

I don't see it. Cure Critical, Mass is already a 200+ heal without maximize. 400+ is just going to be overhealing everyone, and for that, you have Heal, Mass which is more mana efficient, anyway.

Mass Cure Crit is 42 healing base, x2.15 (Life Magic 4 and Superior Ardor 8) is a pathetic 90 without metamagics. Not quite 200 on a crit without investing AP into crit healing intensity (not an option on this build; not a very good use of AP on a FvS generally).

135 with Empower only, 225 with both Empower and Maximize. It's a big difference. If you must drop a feat, drop Extend instead, it is expendable.

[Nyvn]

I don't see it. Cure Critical, Mass is already a 200+ heal without maximize. 400+ is just going to be overhealing everyone, and for that, you have Heal, Mass which is more mana efficient, anyway.

I'm interested in seeing how you manage those numbers.

[Warinx]

pre update 7 we had alot of good discussion here about the worth of picking up a few of the thf feats since each of them was 10% glancing blow gain. I said earlier I was gonna test it for a bit and I've decided that picking up a few 2hf feats is not worth the cost of 1 feat and stopping to twitch. It's an all or nothing investment imo because of the way glancing blow feats give you more glancing hits per attack animation it's going to be a severe dps loss to not twich unless you have all 3 2hf feats.

I'm removing the 2hf feat on razing that I've been playing around with and picking up maximize or adamantine body.

[AtomicMew]

Mass Cure Crit is 42 healing base, x2.15 (Life Magic 4 and Superior Ardor 8) is a pathetic 90 without metamagics. Not quite 200 on a crit without investing AP into crit healing intensity (not an option on this build; not a very good use of AP on a FvS generally).

135 with Empower only, 225 with both Empower and Maximize. It's a big difference. If you must drop a feat, drop Extend instead, it is expendable.

You're right. I was coming from the perspective of my cleric which is ~160 with empower only, and also kind of assuming everyone had > 1 healing amp.

Still, I think it's a valid point. You are basically replicating an expensive MH. If you alternate MCCW and MH with just empower or just maximize, you'd hardly see a difference, and conserve on quite a few SP.

[AylinIsAwesome]

You're right. I was coming from the perspective of my cleric which is ~160 with empower only, and also kind of assuming everyone had > 1 healing amp.

Not everyone can fit in Healing Amp, and there is often little reason to on non-Warforged characters below a certain HP mark, especially if they aren't tank characters. For example, a fleshie Rogue at around the 450 HP mark doesn't really need any Healing Amp at all, since it would just cause waste due to overhealing. It just isn't worth a gear slot.

On the other hand, my Warforged Paladin is getting all the Healing Amp she can both because she's WF and because she wants the aggro. She also has a lot more HP than a Rogue would, so healing for more HP is efficient because there's much less of a chance for there to be loss from overhealing.

The value of Healing Amp really depends on what your character is doing, what race you are, and how much HP you have.


Still, I think it's a valid point. You are basically replicating an expensive MH. If you alternate MCCW and MH with just empower or just maximize, you'd hardly see a difference, and conserve on quite a few SP.

That strategy won't work in places when heals need to come quickly and come fast, like in eADQ2 without a tank. Using Mass Heal in there is just too slow, and can often result in dead melee. Alternating Maximized Empowered Mass Cures, while costing more mana, won't result in anyone dead* and is thus the better option since there won't be breaks in DPSing (besides when she teleports away), and mana won't have to be spent raising and rebuffing people.

*: Barring huge lag spikes or super-squishy melee of course.

[fsupps]

How does this set, Wrath of Sora Kell, compare to the claw set and does anybody know what the upgrade will be. Thanks.

[AylinIsAwesome]

How does this set, Wrath of Sora Kell, compare to the claw set and does anybody know what the upgrade will be. Thanks.

The set bonus is +2 damage/attack

The items in question all become BtC, min level 13, +6 stats, and the skill bonuses are upgraded to +13 (detect secret doors becomes true seeing). The three are gloves, ring, and helmet.

[fsupps]

Thank you. I heard that with the new update there will be away to upgrade these items.

[Warinx]

considering putting 3 pieces of the chronoscope epic on my FvS. Cloak, Boots and Helmet. Would give Poison Guard, Disintegration Guard, Charisma and Constitution +7, +5 Resistance, also 2 green a yellow and a colorless augment slot

[Warinx]

3) Solo scroll farming in Epics
Would be very cool to hear from you how you solo farm epics on a toon like this, I find it hard with no real CC / auto crit spell on my melee fvs

[sirgog]

Would be very cool to hear from you how you solo farm epics on a toon like this, I find it hard with no real CC / auto crit spell on my melee fvs

It's slow, but I've soloed a fair way in to Epic Last Stand with this toon (my mediocre Bladebarrier providing most of the damage, fireballs from a Summon Monster 9 fire ele provide some more). The mobility of wings, the HP and defenses, and the quickened self-healing mean you just don't die.

I know someone with an almost identical build that regularly solos about 30-40 mobs in ADQ1 epic with Bladebarrier as well. (They built their version with -2 Str and +6 Wisdom and different enhancements to mine.)

I've tried, but not yet succeeded, to solo the first fight of epic Chronoscope. It could be done; I've only made four half-hearted attempts. Once past it, solofarming that chain isn't hard.

VON scrolls come from zombies early in epic VON5. Bladebarrier with melee to polish them off.

[Warinx]

Nice! Thanks for the reply, will defenatly try that.

[JDCrowell]

Erm...question for the masses out there.

I love this build but before this toon, I've never really used Greatswords.

With that said, is there a reason my crits are lucky to hit 110 with a Bloodstone and stay in the 90's w/o it?
Are GA's and Khopeshes that uber with the x3 mulitplier, or am I missing something?

Most of my GS's are only +3 Holy or Metalline PG.
STR at level 18 standing is 28 +2 w/ship buffs +2 w/rage = 32

[sirgog]

Erm...question for the masses out there.

I love this build but before this toon, I've never really used Greatswords.

With that said, is there a reason my crits are lucky to hit 110 with a Bloodstone and stay in the 90's w/o it?
Are GA's and Khopeshes that uber with the x3 mulitplier, or am I missing something?

Most of my GS's are only +3 Holy or Metalline PG.
STR at level 18 standing is 28 +2 w/ship buffs +2 w/rage = 32

You crit more often than Greataxe users, but for less. Get something that is +5 and has bursts on it for auto-crit situations, and you will do a lot more damage than you do now, but until you have the eSoS, autocrit damage is a real weakness of this build (or any other melee that uses x2 crit weapons).

If you think the eSoS is a long, long way away for you, you might want to consider creating an Epic Hellstroke Greataxe - the shard is a pretty common drop and not many people want it, and with its high base damage and doublestrike, it does a lot of damage in autocrit situations, only just behind the eSoS.


Edit: Even the non-epic SoS is worth considering in auto-crit situations.

[JDCrowell]

You crit more often than Greataxe users, but for less. Get something that is +5 and has bursts on it for auto-crit situations, and you will do a lot more damage than you do now, but until you have the eSoS, autocrit damage is a real weakness of this build (or any other melee that uses x2 crit weapons).

If you think the eSoS is a long, long way away for you, you might want to consider creating an Epic Hellstroke Greataxe - the shard is a pretty common drop and not many people want it, and with its high base damage and doublestrike, it does a lot of damage in autocrit situations, only just behind the eSoS.

Yea, I ran Genesis Point last night and saw crits flying like crazy. Highest I saw was 115. Maybe I'm just spoiled by my Exploiter and his damage with Khopeshes, Tempest III, Bloodstone, and FE Evil Outsiders. LOL
Thanks to the extra crits, I am able to hold my own very well though, It just feels like I could be doing more.

I've seen the SoS drop in Von6, don't know why the halfling rogue needed it, but to each is own. I'm hoping to get mine sometime soon, just haven't run it enough.

Thanks for the advice, I'll defiantly keep an eye out for a +5 GS with some bursts to help out.

[JDCrowell]

Well yesterday I pulled the Quorforged Docent of Battle and Terror from the Mindsunder. Then the Hellstroke Great Axe from an elite Chronoscope run...

Looks like I'm headed in a good direction, just time to get to work on these items :)

[wax_on_wax_off]

Just started this build.

Having trouble deciding on feats.

Particularly, empower vs empower healing.

SP wise, empower can benefit from FvS enhancements. Otherwise, empower can help on blade barrier (and im thinking searing light while leveling).

Thoughts?

[fsupps]

Sirgog – wanted to know if you can list you’re end game spells or maybe a screen shot. If not just tr’ed and really like going through again halfway thru lvl 9. Thanks again for a great build.

[aristarchus1000]

Just started this build.

Having trouble deciding on feats.

Particularly, empower vs empower healing.

SP wise, empower can benefit from FvS enhancements. Otherwise, empower can help on blade barrier (and im thinking searing light while leveling).

Thoughts?

I liked empowered healing. As a warforged, especially while leveling, your healing spells don't have quite the oomph to get you to full quickly, sometimes you have to cast twice. I really prefered the style of beating things down until my hitpoints got a bit lower and then popping a heal spell and going back to swinging. This is even true after the Heal spell, until you get better healing amp and such.

After level 12, with just quicken and maximize, blade barrier was plenty powerful for me to solo the same content I was able to do on my max wisdom Evoker FvS. Easier in fact, since I was spending less mana and had better melee.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I liked empowered healing. As a warforged, especially while leveling, your healing spells don't have quite the oomph to get you to full quickly, sometimes you have to cast twice. I really prefered the style of beating things down until my hitpoints got a bit lower and then popping a heal spell and going back to swinging. This is even true after the Heal spell, until you get better healing amp and such.

After level 12, with just quicken and maximize, blade barrier was plenty powerful for me to solo the same content I was able to do on my max wisdom Evoker FvS. Easier in fact, since I was spending less mana and had better melee.

Thank you, I'd say you're right about that.

Ok, another question. Sirgog chooses extend spell with the alternative of adamantine body. I don't mind leveling without extend spell, end game, is it necessary? Is adamantine body the best alternative?

[ArtosKincaid]

Empower Healing works on heal and mass heal. Empower does not. You're much better off with empower healing on this build.

[voodoogroves]

Thank you, I'd say you're right about that.

Ok, another question. Sirgog chooses extend spell with the alternative of adamantine body. I don't mind leveling without extend spell, end game, is it necessary? Is adamantine body the best alternative?

I've actually found Adamantine more useful early, when you don't have other "high" DR. The early boost to DR and AC is quite nice. It essentially takes your level DR from 1-2 in the early levels to 3-4 ... a decent boost.

Later on, the difference between 13 and 15 DR isn't as stark. At those times, I'd rather have a divine power, divine favor, etc. that lasts longer and annoys me less to recast.

[Aegnore]

At end game, i dropped maximize for adamantine body... because of the additional 2 DR and of course the "bulky" look.

As a melee i wouldn't recommend dropping your extend because your buffs will be less mana efficient...(even if you have tons of sp)...

and for me its a bit annoying trying to recast divne power and favor every 2 mins or so..

Based on my exp, I usually just use maximize for BB, which I now rarely used.... I just use BB to get aggro at end game... Its actually a bit easier for this build to whack monsters than kite them to your blades.

[aristarchus1000]

Thank you, I'd say you're right about that.

Ok, another question. Sirgog chooses extend spell with the alternative of adamantine body. I don't mind leveling without extend spell, end game, is it necessary? Is adamantine body the best alternative?

I'd get the extend spell, especially while leveling. Your buffs are pretty short otherwise. Even at 20, there are enough short-term buffs (Divine Power/Favor, Recitation, Prayer, Holy aura) that I think extend is worthwhile. Extend is also really useful while leveling for your blade barriers, which tend to be a little too short duration otherwise.

I can see dropping extend at level 20 as being an option, because at least these spells last 2 minutes by then. It really stinks when they last only 1 minute or so at lower levels.



Based on my exp, I usually just use maximize for BB, which I now rarely used.... I just use BB to get aggro at end game... Its actually a bit easier for this build to whack monsters than kite them to your blades.

I agree this is as true once you get a decent weapon, like a Lit2 greatsword. I found myself using BB much less after that. I imagine it would be even more true once you get something like an eSoS. I think I would seriously consider dropping maximize if I ever get my hands on one. As of now, maximize is useful enough on a situational basis, and I don't have a feat that I like particularly better at this point, so I'm leaving it as it is.

[Tobril]

What are people's thoughts on this...

To avoid the HP loss issue from swapping into the healer belts for the clicky, craft +6 con and GFL on the epic chainmail coif. Craft a guard or some other epic item for the belt slot.

Viable? Are there too many hats that this character would swap around?

[fsupps]

Anybody using this build at end game who can recommend spells. Last time around it was very costly to swap spells and still had some that I didn’t use. Any help would be appreciated.

[Anneliese]

Anybody using this build at end game who can recommend spells. Last time around it was very costly to swap spells and still had some that I didn’t use. Any help would be appreciated.

As an addendum to the list in the main post:

#1 Obscuring mist (like blur if you got true seeing, very situational), nightshield (magic missile - switch to remove fear once 20), prot from evil

#2 Spawn Screen (protects against some stat damage sometimes, not 100% sure), Lesser Resto (when you want to de-exhaust someone quick), cure mod wounds (to test how much hp someone has in a group)

#3 Searing Light (not good damage, but can be ok), Mass Aid (small hp buffer)

#4 Recitation (Raids, tho not superuseful)

#5 Stalwart Pact (small buffer just in case), Spell Resistance (can be useful)

#7 Prot from Elements, Mass (decent in some raids) , Summon Monster for the Earth Ellie (not super useful, but sort of ok)

#8 death pact (second chance for soloing)

#9 True Res and Energy Drain


Those are just a suggestion - your mileage might vary

[Aegnore]

Anybody using this build at end game who can recommend spells. Last time around it was very costly to swap spells and still had some that I didn’t use. Any help would be appreciated.

Here's my end game spell selections

Level 1
Cure Light Wounds
Divine Favor
Nightshield (for the +3 resistance though the protection against magic missiles overlap with the capstone)
Obscuring Mist ( I rarely use this now...)

Level 2
Cure Moderate Wounds
Eagle's Splendor (adds +4 to charisma; lets you cast level 9 spells [CHA = 19] when you get "disjuncted")
Remove Paralysis
Resist Energy

Level 3
Cure Serious Wounds
Mass Aid
Magical Circle Against Evil ( protects you from the Greater Commands of those Pesky Sahuagin Mages.. =P)
Remove Curse

Level 4
Cure Critical Wounds
Death Ward
Freedom of Movement
Divine Power

Level 5
Mass Cure Light Wounds
Break Enchantment (helpful in dispelling Firewalls, Ice storm and Fog effects.)
Raise Dead
True Seeing

Level 6
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Heal
Bladebarrier

Level 7
Mass Cure Serious Wounds
Greater Restoration
Mass Protection from Elements

Level 8
Mass Cure Critical Wounds
Death Pact
Holy Aura ( Mass Blind ftw!)

Level 9
Mass Heal
True Resurrection
Summon Monster IX

( Im sure you can trade some of the Cure spells for other spells... I just want to see all my Cure spells at my primary Hotkeys thats why I took them all. :) )

[fsupps]

Thanks everybody. I think the first time through I gave up to fast on my cure spells that all I had was heal and mass heal and sometimes it was over heal. I will keep some other heal spells for situational use and I was trying to remember what spells I had that I didn’t use at all. Thanks again.

[Aegnore]

Thanks everybody. I think the first time through I gave up to fast on my cure spells that all I had was heal and mass heal and sometimes it was over heal. I will keep some other heal spells for situational use and I was trying to remember what spells I had that I didn’t use at all. Thanks again.

yep its nice to have some cure spells memorized aside from heals.. so that you have available healing spells to cast when your Heal Spells are on Cooldown... :) Happy Healing

[Poza]

Which one is the best soloer at end game, this one or the evoker?

[Aegnore]

Which one is the best soloer at end game, this one or the evoker?

I think that depends on the quests you are running.. though I havent tried running an evoker build yet...

[Anneliese]

Which one is the best soloer at end game, this one or the evoker?

It also depends on your playstyle. If you like to utilize stealth, a Drow FVS would be superior due to the ability to cast an infinite number of quickened invisibilities. For example its often possible to hit a lever and then invis again without being noticed - you cant do that with scrolls or clickies.

[aristarchus1000]

It also depends on your playstyle. If you like to utilize stealth, a Drow FVS would be superior due to the ability to cast an infinite number of quickened invisibilities. For example its often possible to hit a lever and then invis again without being noticed - you cant do that with scrolls or clickies.

Hmm, never noticed not being able to do that with clickies. I agree scrolls are too slow sometimes. Clickies can be hard to juggle, but you have to have it equiped before you pull the lever becasue it takes too long if you swap, then click.

I agree though, better soloing depends on playstyle and quest involved.

[fsupps]

Not sure if this is an accomplishment or not, but at lvl 13 without bladebarrier I just solo'd chronoscope, normal.

[Dendrix]

Here's my end game spell selections

Level 1
Cure Light Wounds

Level 2
Cure Moderate Wounds

Level 3
Cure Serious Wounds

Level 4
Cure Critical Wounds

Level 5
Mass Cure Light Wounds

Level 6
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Heal

Level 7
Mass Cure Serious Wounds

Level 8
Mass Cure Critical Wounds

Level 9
Mass Heal


Personally I think that is madness. You have a limited number of spells and you are wasting them on totally redundant spells. Heal, Mass Heal. + 1 or 2 more healing spells total. More than that is foolish.

[flynnjsw]

What are good Docents to be looking for while leveling. I am working on finishing up my DT and I have an upgraded Quorforged Docent of Battle.

[Aegnore]

Personally I think that is madness. You have a limited number of spells and you are wasting them on totally redundant spells. Heal, Mass Heal. + 1 or 2 more healing spells total. More than that is foolish.

Its not foolish its just self-preference.. i got used to a skill bar with all healing options available....plus "other" spells aren't that effective on my playstyle as a LotB...

Its more about how you play your char and support the party.. =)

[Aegnore]

What are good Docents to be looking for while leveling. I am working on finishing up my DT and I have an upgraded Quorforged Docent of Battle.

While levelling I just generally used Blademark's docent then around level 8-10 or so I used Spearblock/Axeblock Docents til I reached 16 for DT...

maybe someday il have Red Dragonscale Docent.. and that someday is still a very very long time..

[sweez]

Started a toon similar to this build, using Blademark's docent too, by level 10 I hope to get enough funds to grab a DoD, if I actually manage to pull that off I'll be in no big hurry to make my DT.

[XL_Jockey]

I created a similar build too recently. I ended up dropping STR and CON to 17 and put those points into INT (so I can have 3 skills) and WIS (for Will saves) to suit my playstyle a little more. I'm sitting at lvl 5 trying to get my hands on a Dragon sigil so I can upgrade my docent to the Blademark's. Once I get that I should be set. This char only levels with my buddy's Rogue Mechanic, so it'll be fun getting used to taking aggro and healing while in melee.

Any other early-level equip I should look out for? Saving all the useful greatswords I can find, but my other chars are a Monk and Rogue, so not a ton of things that can be handed down and still be useful.

[JDCrowell]

I created a similar build too recently. I ended up dropping STR and CON to 17 and put those points into INT (so I can have 3 skills) and WIS (for Will saves) to suit my playstyle a little more. I'm sitting at lvl 5 trying to get my hands on a Dragon sigil so I can upgrade my docent to the Blademark's. Once I get that I should be set. This char only levels with my buddy's Rogue Mechanic, so it'll be fun getting used to taking aggro and healing while in melee.

Any other early-level equip I should look out for? Saving all the useful greatswords I can find, but my other chars are a Monk and Rogue, so not a ton of things that can be handed down and still be useful.

If you can, grab the Sword of the Thirty (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sword_of_the_Thirty). Its a +2 Great Sword that's Keen. It's the Great sword Equivalent to the Carnifex (obvious difference is the x3 crit multiplier Great Axes get)

If you can't find it on the AH it drops in Champion Guptrak's chest in Tear of Dhakaan. It's not bound, so if you have a higher level toon that can grab it for you easy, you can just swap it over.

I used this sword for a long time. Till about level 12 or so.

[sweez]

Sword of Thirty isn't really an equivalent to the Carnifex, since Carnifex is basically double-keen, but it's still a very good lowbie weapon for a toon like this that can't use g-axes.

As for other gear, the Chrono set is a winner - ML 5, items themselves are pretty decent and the set bonuses work well for this build. That, Sword of Thirty, Mod Fort belt, Crimson Gemstone (+50 SP trinket, think... Tangleroot?), Deathward goggles (definitely Tangleroot) and a ring with decent Spell Resistance (some very decent BtA ones drop in Red Fens quests if I'm not mistaken) and you're cruising through lowbie stuff.

[XL_Jockey]

Sounds like I need to run a couple quests with my higher level char to grab some equipment. I think I can solo Chrono on normal with him, so I'll try that.

Upgraded that docent to the Blademark Docent last night. It certainly helps but I think I have a habit of wading into battle to quickly, and with basically no AC I need to start playing smarter.

[aristarchus1000]

If you want to farm it, I really like the Bloodrage Symbiont http://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=Bloodrage_Symbiont& for leveling, even on my WF FvS.

It's not required though, but it's a pretty easy DR 5/- item that served me well along with the Blademark Docent until I got to 20. You might consider keeping the Adamantine Body feat until you farm one. You will also want to do at least one adamantine ritual on it to make it more durable. Look on youtube to see how to farm it.

Another item is the Gorgon's Docent from the new Stormreach quest line. The chest is pretty easy to repeatedly farm, and the item is Bound to Account so you can do it with any high level character if you have one.

[Volaxis]

Totally stole this build from sirgog thanks. Now my cleric aint no gimp ass stand back and heal, in fact im usually the one doing all the work. Anyway im posting to say:

THIS IS NOT A BEGINNER BUILD.

Let me clarify. Healing the party is hard work. Fighting and healing a beginner wont be able to. The party will die because the new player needs to spend a life as a healbot first. Yes this build can be used as a heal bot but do you think a beginner will resist the temptation? We all know battle clerics have a bad rep, and this build in a beginners hands will result in more bad rep.

That being said if a beginner wants to solo to 20 then this is the build for them.

-----
Other points, I put half those extra points into balance AND jump, even though I have the jump clickie already I find there are a lot of cases in epics (dq2 im thinking) where your throwing raise's to each other and you have to jump/wing away. Of coarse theres no time for the belt so jump skill is still handy for those moments. Also you only loose a couple balance points as its cross class. Just my taste.
-----
Again just taste I like the starting stats more than lord of blades. But I think ill swap out the intim's for somethings else until I feel geared enough to tank.

[wax_on_wax_off]

What alignment? I went neutral on mine which has been a pain for equipping some alignment restricted items but I'm happy with it overall (level 15 so far).

Just curious if other people went differently.

[sweez]

Since it's a build that's supposed to get hit a lot and it relies on DR to minimize incoming damage, I'd say neutral is the way to go - avoiding unholy damage = less damage taken total. Not really sure it makes that much difference at the end (unholy hits for 2d6, right? and the build ends up with 13 DR) due to the huge DR you'll have, I'd like some clarification on that as well.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Since it's a build that's supposed to get hit a lot and it relies on DR to minimize incoming damage, I'd say neutral is the way to go - avoiding unholy damage = less damage taken total. Not really sure it makes that much difference at the end (unholy hits for 2d6, right? and the build ends up with 13 DR) due to the huge DR you'll have, I'd like some clarification on that as well.

The DR won't affect unholy damage.

[Zectarash]

Cloak:[/color]
This can safely be anything - Shroud-crafted items are good here, particularly ones you want on all the time like your Conc-Opp Shroud HP item. It can also be a hotswap slot for Shroud-crafted 45 resist items.


Make that Epic Cloak of Night.

[tkneip1874]

cloak of night would not be a good idea on this toon because if you are tanking an invis guard goes off you lose the aggro.

[wax_on_wax_off]

So I'm approaching level 18 and so far have toughness, power attack, maximise, empower healing, improved critical: slashing, quicken spell. I have 1 feat left to choose at level 18.

Option 1: Adamantine Body (+2 DR gives 15 DR when considering capstone)
Option 2: Extend Spell (because I'm lazy and don't want to recast spells so often)
Option 3: Two Handed Fighting
Option 4: Swap Maximise Spell for Two Handed Fighting and take Improved Two Handed Fighting
Option 5: Something else?

Option 1 and 4 are 2 that I'm mostly considering. Improved Two Weapon Fighting would give 40% damage for glancing blows and 10% chance to proc special affects. What do you think? (Obviously this makes blade barrier useless but it didn't do much damage anyway considering not having empower or extend and 6 wisdom).

[Sarophim]

I have also enjoyed leveling this build so +1 to sirgog.


So I'm approaching level 18 and so far have toughness, power attack, maximise, empower healing, improved critical: slashing, quicken spell. I have 1 feat left to choose at level 18.


As to feat choice, I stuck with the build layout and have extend in addition to those that you list and have no regrets.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I have also enjoyed leveling this build so +1 to sirgog.



As to feat choice, I stuck with the build layout and have extend in addition to those that you list and have no regrets.

Sure. However.

a. Extend is a nice luxury at low levels to have those buffs last longer
b. Extend is nice to make blade barrier more SP efficient
c. Extend looses its luster once your 1 round/level buffs are lasting 2 minutes anyway
d. Blade Barrier won't be used so much once I hit level 20
e. Sirgog suggests Adamantine body as an alternative to Extend
f. I think I have read that Sirgog would switch out maximise under some circumstances

[Sarophim]

of the choices you list I like the extra 2pts of dr option.

I'm not a numbers person but I do seem to remember it being mentioned that thf is "all or nothing" i.e the benefits don't outweight the cost of the feats unless going all the way to greater thf.

As you say extend is a luxury but I personally like 4min plus divine power :cool:

Maximize also has it's place for your mass cures when needed.

The great thing is feats can be swapped without too terrible a cost and IMO none of the changes are exactly build breaking.

[wax_on_wax_off]

of the choices you list I like the extra 2pts of dr option.

I'm not a numbers person but I do seem to remember it being mentioned that thf is "all or nothing" i.e the benefits don't outweight the cost of the feats unless going all the way to greater thf.

As you say extend is a luxury but I personally like 4min plus divine power :cool:

Maximize also has it's place for your mass cures when needed.

The great thing is feats can be swapped without too terrible a cost and IMO none of the changes are exactly build breaking.

I like the 2 DR option too.

ITHF gives 40% glancing blows and 10% chance for effects to proc on glancing blows. This equates to more than 40% extra DPS against bosses on hits that receive glancing blows (is it 1st and 4th in attack chain?). However, it removes the possibility of twitching (as you lose your glancing blows then). Is this right?

I don't think maximise is needed when all 4 mass cures can be cycled with empower healing on them and benefiting from superior ardor (after 18 minutes might be a problem).

[Aegnore]

If I may add.... EXTEND is not just for a lazy substitute actually it helps on sp efficiency..
+10 sp to cast spells twice their duration (divine power and favor) is more efficient than casting the same spells twice for their original sp cost..

and at end game, with this build i rarely used MAXIMIZE ( for bb ) so in the end i dropped maxmize for adamantine body

[wax_on_wax_off]

If I may add.... EXTEND is not just for a lazy substitute actually it helps on sp efficiency..
+10 sp to cast spells twice their duration (divine power and favor) is more efficient than casting the same spells twice for their original sp cost..

and at end game, with this build i rarely used MAXIMIZE ( for bb ) so in the end i dropped maxmize for adamantine body

I get the SP efficiency argument but the savings aren't all that great.

Divine Favour = 10 SP, 0 SP savings with extend.
Divine Power = 25 SP, 15 SP saving with extend.

Over 10 minutes of keeping them constantly active you will save ~60 SP. Mental Toughness gives more.

However,
Divine Favour = 0
Prayer = 10
Recitation = 15
Divine Power = 15

So, if you keep all of these going, you save <200 SP over 10 minutes, kind of worthwhile.

In the end, extend isn't necessary, it's a crutch for some, a luxury for others.

(Not sure on the exact numbers as spell durations can be funny, but ~1 round/level, I think it's 30 seconds + 1 round/level for favour/power)

[sweez]

The DR won't affect unholy damage.

D'oh. Thanks.

[wax_on_wax_off]

What do people think the Greensteel priority should be, Conc-opp HP cloak or a LitII Greatsword? I only have larges to make of these at the moment.

[Sarophim]

In my limited experience with it so far I would say that the Conc-opp cloak makes the bigger difference of the two.

Short and sweet..... if you have a decent great sword for now; I would make the cloak first and lit2 later.

[Aegnore]

What do people think the Greensteel priority should be, Conc-opp HP cloak or a LitII Greatsword? I only have larges to make of these at the moment.

Conc Opp HP cloak for me.....

Back when i was a cleric

I started with SP GS item then followed with Conc Opp HP Cloak then I didnt bother making a Lit II Greatsword before I TR'd, i made a Min II instead...

[sirgog]

I get the SP efficiency argument but the savings aren't all that great.

Divine Favour = 10 SP, 0 SP savings with extend.
Divine Power = 25 SP, 15 SP saving with extend.

Over 10 minutes of keeping them constantly active you will save ~60 SP. Mental Toughness gives more.

However,
Divine Favour = 0
Prayer = 10
Recitation = 15
Divine Power = 15

So, if you keep all of these going, you save <200 SP over 10 minutes, kind of worthwhile.

In the end, extend isn't necessary, it's a crutch for some, a luxury for others.

(Not sure on the exact numbers as spell durations can be funny, but ~1 round/level, I think it's 30 seconds + 1 round/level for favour/power)

Extend is also a melee DPS feat. Spending 2-3 seconds mid-combat to refresh buffs costs damage. It's also time that cannot be spend healing.

[kendo]

If you want to farm it, I really like the Bloodrage Symbiont http://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=Bloodrage_Symbiont& for leveling, even on my WF FvS.

It's not required though, but it's a pretty easy DR 5/- item that served me well along with the Blademark Docent until I got to 20. You might consider keeping the Adamantine Body feat until you farm one. You will also want to do at least one adamantine ritual on it to make it more durable. Look on youtube to see how to farm it.

Another item is the Gorgon's Docent from the new Stormreach quest line. The chest is pretty easy to repeatedly farm, and the item is Bound to Account so you can do it with any high level character if you have one.

is this an exception to the non-stacking rule for DR? according to the wiki page on DR, passive sources of DR, like WF inherant, and items, specifically mentioned bloodrage, do not stack. exception being the WF adamantine which says it adds to other sources of DR/adamantine. but as bloodrage isn't DR/adamantine, wondering if those would still stack.

[kendo]

What alignment? I went neutral on mine which has been a pain for equipping some alignment restricted items but I'm happy with it overall (level 15 so far).

Just curious if other people went differently.

wondering about this also. I am very interested in building a FvS and this concept looks like it will fit right into my play style. but I don't have any fancy gear to pass down to him and I have found on other beginning characters that it's really tough going neutral and not being able to equip restricted items, especially good items for areas like Delera's, etc.

if neutral is the consensus for end game play, I may look at going with a good alignment while leveling and pay to switch the alignment at a higher level, and once UMD is high enough to make a difference in bypassing restrictions

[teamghost]

Thank you for all of the information in this great thread! I am trying to tweak these feats and am wondering if Quicken is a must. Do Favored Souls cast faster than clerics like sorcerers vs. wizards? I am just trying to figure out how I can keep Adamantine Body as well as THF (which is not on this build). I just thought it would be nice to have THF to take advantage of the WF enhancements. Is that a bad idea? Should I ditch Maximize to keep Quicken or abandon THF?

[voodoogroves]

Thank you for all of the information in this great thread! I am trying to tweak these feats and am wondering if Quicken is a must. Do Favored Souls cast faster than clerics like sorcerers vs. wizards? I am just trying to figure out how I can keep Adamantine Body as well as THF (which is not on this build). I just thought it would be nice to have THF to take advantage of the WF enhancements. Is that a bad idea? Should I ditch Maximize to keep Quicken or abandon THF?
You want quicken. Even with an awesome CON score and max concentration, you will find you want to heal yourself and fail the concentration check because of the inbound damage you're taking. Quicken makes that a non-issue.