How has DDO changed over the years?

[donnala]

How is it different today then is was years ago?

What do players miss the most?

What is new that players like the best?

What has changed and why?

[Zilta]

I most miss how difficult the boss at the end of STK used to be. Everyone shield wall and magic missle him to death!

[~Zornochio]

How is it different today then is was years ago?

What do players miss the most?

What is new that players like the best?

What has changed and why?

Different:It's a lot easier, and not just because long time players know the content by heart.

Miss the Most: The new car smell

Best Change: New Content on a regular basis again

Why:They made it easier to solo so they could attract the casual players and keep the game alive. It was pretty quiet around here in the months before they announced F2P.

[Thriand]

I miss the old anarchic burst graphic... awesome floating pink dots ftw

[Carat]

One of the things I loved to hate was the XP penalty on death, but it sure made the game exciting at times. You'd be -5 HP hoping the healer would cast quick. Nailbiting, hoping for the CON save to stabilize so you didn't die. Each death gave you a negative XP bank - not like death now where the whole party suffers the loss of the XP bonus for one person.

It was a personal penalty that added negative XP with each death. With the lower level cap, I remember doing POP elite and just trying to break even.

[Dragonhyde]

I miss the old anarchic burst graphic... awesome floating pink dots ftw

This :)

[Lorien_the_First_One]

The game used to require a lot more skill and teamwork before they repeatedly hit it with the easy button. STK end boss, scaling, loss of xp debt on death, no more permanent debuffs, more and more loot crazed, etc.

The game used to advertise no grinding, and it was true.

[Memnir]

How is it different today then is was years ago?
How far back are we talking here?
The game is vastly different then it was at launch - some for the better, some for the worse.


What do players miss the most?
I miss the days before Dungeon Alert/Scaling. I think both have only worked to the detriment of the game as a whole, and were added more out of Dev hubris then any actual need for them.

I miss the days before some of the harder quests in the game were watered down - and in some cases plain neutered - in order to accommodate the whims of new players.

What is new that players like the best?
Again, how far back are we talking to be considered "new"?
Most recently, I like Radiant Servant PrE, and the expanded Void strike line for Monks.


What has changed and why?
Ask the Devs, brother. A lot of what they've changed makes little sense to me - but it's their ballgame, they can do what they want with it. And really, they rarely tell us the why's behind the changes.

[Delt]

The only thing I really miss is when random loot used to actually be exciting. Like you pull a vorpal and 20+ completely random people not even in your party send you tells asking what you want for it.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

No one knows what Gerald Goodblade is talking about.

Getting a case of old Scully's Grog now is a DDO store trap.

FtP killed LFMs for favorite quests like STK.


Cap lvl 10
No knock spell
No firewall spell
then there were scrolls of firewall
Cloudkill was the easy button.
you could kill things before opening a door.
no everbright.
no transmuting
then they took it away from us.
you actually got XP from Von5.
No desert
The desert was challengng
You had to pay to get to it.
Or do Desert Caravan quest.
There was acctually LFMs for Desert Caravan quest.
It was 30 minutes long.
It had five chests!
No one admired Gary's DM voice.
Threnal caves were a loot run.
most players dont even know there are caves in Threnal
First time we saw a disco ball Hazedil killed whole parties with it.
We ran bases
There was no GS
There was no Auctions!
You hung out at the broker and tried to swipe a W/P before someone else got it.
You could buy +5 Mithral armor at the brokers....and you didn't even have to hang out all day to get it.
We thought the brokers were expensive!
People actually tried to conserve mana.
People were scared of drawing to much agro
soloing was something only the best players did.
More people in group was seen as an asset.
Raid loot (what can I say here)
Everyone knew if you failed or completed the Reaver.
People failed the reaver.
On Normal.
There were LFMs for quests other than raids and loot runs.
when a group wiped, people left the dungeon with the idea of reentering instead of dropping group.
There was no drow.
Drow was considered a good race choice
I would've never considered a vorpal vendor junk.
Silver of Holy/PG was vendor junk.
Wizards could buy any scroll they wanted.
tomes were super rare.

We got a wish for our birthday. :cool:

[Chazzie]

How is it different today then is was years ago?

When I showed up at DDO the begining Island it took two minutes then you showed up in the harbor Whats now the dream of Jetts pac.

The Chat Box NEVER moved!!!!
When you asked a ? though you had 50 people help you & you got a freindly & warm welcome & vets would go out of there way to help new people that was willing to learn.

DDO had a BIG Learning curve & was Way Harder~If you would run up to the Boss in STK You most likely would DIE FAST.

If you didnt have the gear for a quest the vets would set you up & in turn you would go out of your way to pay them back by listening & learning & dont take them for granted

People would help a Cleric out with scrolls ,Pots,and Plat for keeping them up

Underwater Action items where 100gp in the ah or mostly vendor trash

Stone drops in wild area's for Reaver place where a Pain in the but to drop not 50% of the time now+You needed more stones than you need now.

There just a tip of the iceburge since Ive been around

What do players miss the most?
The Silence~of the Chat and the Community attitude when I arrived

What is new that players like the best?
The more content (Wish the content was higher lvl like most) other than that nothing

What has changed and why?
The Community attitude~A high % of people seem to refuse to read to learn

[TEcarson]

lots of really good points

+1 to you.

I have only been around since September, but this seems like a pretty good summary of what I have been reading.

[Rasczak]

I miss doing Threnal Arena for my uber +5 longsword.

[cardmj1]

No one knows what Gerald Goodblade is talking about.

Getting a case of old Scully's Grog now is a DDO store trap.

FtP killed LFMs for favorite quests like STK.


.....
More people in group was seen as an asset.
Raid loot (what can I say here)
Everyone knew if you failed or completed the Reaver.
People failed the reaver.
On Normal.
...

The global announcements. I remember the first time my raid group completed it and my name was spread over the whole game, I was so relieved it wasn't another Raincloud's Party has failed to stop the Reaver. That was real reknown.

[sephiroth1084]

When I started playing, we didn't have DA, so, for some quests, the strategy was to just blitz through as fast as possible. For some things, this was incredibly fun, like the night I helped my friend get his 32 pt. buy by running something like 30 quests on elite in 5 hours on our lvl 16s.

There was no such thing as dungeon scaling, so soloing really meant something, as you weren't fighting emasculated, wet-noodle-wielding monsters, but the same baddies you would have been dealing with in a full group.

There was an XP bonus for running quests under-level, so many people were running GH at 10, and the Vale at 12 or 13 (I tended to hold off til 12 and 14 respectively), and many were completing content even earlier (level 8 solo Crucible, for example). Now, there's bo real reason to run content above your level since there is no bonus for doing so, and players can no longer do content way under level because Turbine installed a bar for quests: Must be this high to enter -------

In general, the game was quite a bit more challenging, but by the same token, the playerbase was more mature and experienced, meaning that we were able to overcome challenging content more easily than we can now, even with higher level, better-geared characters and with all the training wheels that have been thrown in.

Players weren't coddled at every turn. Hell, I just reran some of the Korthos and Harbor quests, and noticed that many blade and spike traps had been altered to not cover as much area as they used to--now, one may simply walk through safely, even by accident, in many places. The fire room in STK got nerfed big time, as did the final encounter.

Debuffs used to be really serious: players carried Remove Curse, Lesser Restoration, Remove Disease, asked for help when they got hit with Ray of Enfeeblement, or Bestow Curse, or stat damage. Now most players just wait it out in the lower levels.

Crowd control and tactics used to mean more, but in many areas, especially early in the game, the quality of loot has gone up, while monsters have remained the game or gotten weaker, so many fights are much easier than they once were. A +1 <energy type> weapon used to be a big deal by the time you got into WW. I remember oggling at guys running around with flaming swords and acidy clubs, asking what weapon was that they were using? Where did they get it?
I used to really enjoy PUGing. Now, I can hardly bring myself to look at the LFM panel some days. Yes, there were bad PUGs before DDO: EU, but the frequency and severity were much lower than what I experience now.

There also wasn't this prevailing sense that things cannot be accomplished, that some quest is unapproachable because it is over our level, or elite, or whatever.


I like some of the new quests, gear, class features/enhancements, and I like the TR system, even if I think the XP required needs to be lowered a bit. One of the upsides to the game we're in now, is that many players who previously had capped characters and only played those, can now be found in lowbie land running their newly TR'ed toon, although it's often hard to find such people since they, too, are probably avoiding the LFM panel.

Hirelings are a nice addition, I suppose, but I feel like we should have gotten either hirelings or dungeon scaling, but not both. As it is, I can count the number of times I've used a hireling on one hand.

[Morlen]

I miss doing Threnal Arena for my uber +5 longsword.

Oh man is that old school... I miss those days too.

[darktau]

How is it different today then is was years ago?

A great deal in my perspective. I played in beta and continued to play until sometime between the restless isles and demon sands. Heck I dont even renember if the restless isles raid had actually been non glitch completed and a consistant working stragity figured out. I returned shortly after update 4. So I see a great deal more content and do miss Kobold Island.

What do players miss the most?
Kobold Island for one.

The short lived Vorpral weapons acitivating on a weapons crit range not just on the natural 20 and confirmed crit. Oh the gone days of Theranl caves loot runs with Hold Monster and a melee running around with a Vorp Falcherion.

I miss the party makeup mattering. Where an AC tank useing Sword and Board, intimidate was a bonuse to the party and not see as a near piker to the party.

I miss the old difficulties and the exp penality on death. STK has been mentioned alot. I renember the party trying to jump up on the arch of the boss room just to have a chance of surrival after a gate was added/fixed to stop the sheild wall and MM.

The Devs would fix problems in the game and make some quest harder once the player base found an easy way to do the quest.

What is new that players like the best?

I am enjoying the new content for me and increased level cap.

What has changed and why?

Sadly the game has been made easier to appeal to a greater audiance, this would be ok if the F2P had not attracted a large number of immature players.


What I dont miss is the server being rolled back after the Updates where launched as all returning weapons became stacks of 50 and if you were fast enough you could end up with 50 copies of that Shadow Star/Dwarven Thrower/Chill Shard. But in those days returning weapons with bonuse damage were carried and used by all.

[Smelt92]

How are things different?

Well you used to have to keep reminding yourself that this isn't really D&D so that the few differences didn't spoil you over all enjoyment..... Now you have to keep reminding yourself that this really is based on D&D.

What do I miss most?

Tempest spine was never run on anything but elite, if you intended using a weapon in there it had to be a plain +5 something (there were no +5 weapons with prefixes or suffixes at the time) in order to hit the black guards at all.... even then it was 50/50.

Running VON 5 and 6 and standing around listening to the experienced player telling everyone the plan for the finishing VON 5 and doing VON 6 for longer than it took to do it.... but everyone listened patiently and asked questions about bit they were unsure of.... and it still wnet boobies up! (yes back in the day people failed on von6 normal!)

When Relic of the sovereign past came out, the shock that rippled around stormreach that some of the dwarves were hitting for 120 points damage! For the first time heavy fort became important as 120 hp damage was one shotting everyone except barbs and fighters.

When the tactic of the group standing next to the shrine in the main chamber, while some brave soul took his/her life in their hands to go pull the black guards from the corridor leading to the king became common place the Dev's put the doors in to stop the quest being so "easy". This was realatively common back in thew day.... players would find a tactic to over come a difficult quest more easily and the Dev's made a change to it so we had to discover new ways to be successful.... now of course players find they can't just run through a quest and start to cry and the Dev's add an easy button. so sad!

Finding a +2 tome in Tempest spine (my first ever tome) and everyone saying "use it or it might get destroyed in the next bit", I took their advice and ate it immediately (I was lucky...I was on my fighter and it was a +2 str tome). Tome are so common now that I found one in Delara's the other week and only one person in the group bothered with a gratz (it was a +1 tome, but even so).

I miss the days when it was a players skill alone that made him stand out in the crowd.... not his gear!

I miss the days when I heard that someone had solo'd a quest and thought.... how the hell did he manage that!?!?!?!

Why have things changed?

I think Memnir answered this one as well as it can be answered. (I've noticed that Memnir is a wise man and people would do well to listen to him.... and he posts such wonderful and apt picsa too!) Ask the Devs.... most of the changes are a complete mystery to me.

[fluffi]

Changes
Having to choose 4 enhancements only!!!
Searing heights was a death trap.
Swiped signet had a ladder going up to the other party and there were a balanced and challenging party.
Blindness continued when you left a quest. You could always tell the blinded people in the public areas banging into tavern walls to try to get into it for a cure.
I still remember a guildie lending me their vorpal in POP and 'whoo hooo' when I got a 20 (such an uber weapon)

Better things
alot more content
Pre's
new people running a q for the 1st time so you try not to zerg it
1st timers in Reavers fate so you let them tank and only tell them limited amount of info (1st time gravity changes is FUNNY). You can still make it a guaranteed completion so anyone can be 1st tank and still get the raid loot.

[Thechemicals]

Veterans pug and show new players how to run past 50 mobs in a dungeon and roast them, finishing the dungeon in 3 minutes, and get 10k xp without doing any optionals. I think DDO hasnt changed the way veterans and protestors thinks but instead the players have changed the way they played the game once things get old.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Veterans pug and show new players how to run past 50 mobs in a dungeon and roast them, finishing the dungeon in 3 minutes, and get 10k xp without doing any optionals. I think DDO hasnt changed the way veterans and protestors thinks but instead the players have changed the way they played the game once things get old.

You don't have a clue what you are talking about. This isn't even close to the same game it was 4 years ago.

[Thriand]

Veterans pug and show new players how to run past 50 mobs in a dungeon and roast them, finishing the dungeon in 3 minutes, and get 10k xp without doing any optionals. I think DDO hasnt changed the way veterans and protestors thinks but instead the players have changed the way they played the game once things get old.

Says the guy who has been here for 7 months. Trust me the game is drastically different than it was 4 years ago.

[The-Last-Wolf]

Says the guy who has been here for 7 months.

I think you'll find thats 12 weeks ;-)

I think he's going for the fastest neg rep rate in history :-)

Wolf

[Thechemicals]

You don't have a clue what you are talking about. This isn't even close to the same game it was 4 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ0iXn6F0Ok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SyYQeZ-J58

Same graphics, same UI, same narrations, Character and dungeon style.


So game mechanics, balancing, and bug fixes, with new content are the changes that have happened over the years. The ibggest change i have seen is the guild features and airships. Thats game changing to me. Everything else is additions and balancing.

When i think of change in an MMO i think back to Ultima Online when it did major changes like Permanent red and stat loss for player killers. That was an entire change to the mechanics and style of the game which was meant to be pvp oriented. The biggest change was when they split the worlds into 2 identical clones, one for players killers and one for peopel who didnt want to get pked. These were changes that were huge.

So i have no clue, what to this effect has happened in DDO other than guilds and ships?

[Fetchi]

I remember when helpful clerics would stand around in the lobster and leaky d and remove curses from adventurers doing harbor quests on elite. The pots were way too expensive for people to buy and there was no other way to remove a curse besides a cleric.

People would even send tells to them and offer to pay for this service.

Yeah the game has changed.

[Merrelll]

One of the things I loved to hate was the XP penalty on death, but it sure made the game exciting at times. You'd be -5 HP hoping the healer would cast quick. Nailbiting, hoping for the CON save to stabilize so you didn't die. Each death gave you a negative XP bank - not like death now where the whole party suffers the loss of the XP bonus for one person.

It was a personal penalty that added negative XP with each death. With the lower level cap, I remember doing POP elite and just trying to break even.
Many a time I saw people just level up their toon and the next quest died and was thrown back a level because of the xp penalty. This includes Gum Shoe. It made for a very calculated risk taking, thought provoking, hand wringing, curseswearing, keyboard banging goodness to the game I say!

[Thriand]

I think you'll find thats 12 weeks ;-)

I think he's going for the fastest neg rep rate in history :-)

Wolf

Lol I thought his join date said Jan, not June, wow

[Lorien_the_First_One]

So game mechanics, balancing, and bug fixes, with new content are the changes that have happened over the years.

lol all that is changed is how the game works and you don't think that means the game has changed? You really don't have a clue do you?



The ibggest change i have seen is the guild features and airships. Thats game changing to me. Everything else is additions and balancing.

THAT is the biggest change? A minor fluff item? It gives some nice buffs, but they are far less impactful on the game than MOST of the changes that have been put in place.

Read the list of what people have posted in this thread. It's a different game.

The loot, questing methods, dungeon scaling, dungeon alert, the PrEs, the end to permanent debuffs, the change to zero con, the complete revamp of the enhancement system, AI changes, graphical changes, changes to charms, crafting, the store, hirelings its a whole different game in almost every way except for the graphics in the very old dungeons.


Lol I thought his join date said Jan, not June, wow

There is a reason his rep is off.

Honestly, how ignorant does someone have to be to say nothing has changed in 4 years when he has been playing for just a couple weeks.

[Thriand]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ0iXn6F0Ok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SyYQeZ-J58

Same graphics, same UI, same narrations, Character and dungeon style.


So game mechanics, balancing, and bug fixes, with new content are the changes that have happened over the years. The ibggest change i have seen is the guild features and airships. Thats game changing to me. Everything else is additions and balancing.

When i think of change in an MMO i think back to Ultima Online when it did major changes like Permanent red and stat loss for player killers. That was an entire change to the mechanics and style of the game which was meant to be pvp oriented. The biggest change was when they split the worlds into 2 identical clones, one for players killers and one for peopel who didnt want to get pked. These were changes that were huge.

So i have no clue, what to this effect has happened in DDO other than guilds and ships?

Dungeon alert, Dungeon Scaling, The giant change to the enhancement system, and going from a monthly subscription to free to play are all pretty significant changes.

Permanent red and stat loss counts as more than just changing a game mechanic, but changing the entire marketing system doesn't?

Heck we used to have permanent xp loss on death..... but changing that was just a mechanic

[Braegan]

Lots of good ones already, let me see if I can add some...

Level cap was 10 for what seemed forever.
Vorpals "vorpaled" on crits not 20's.
Evasion worked in medium armor.
We got a bonus action point as a mini rank after capping at 10.
The Titan was unbeatable.
Rangers were hated.
A slight mis-hap with loot tables and we looted gear that was above the level cap.
Rangers became accepted...somewhat.
There were no floaty color-coded damage numbers.
Characters would just spin in circles not shuffle as they do now.
The Abbot was broken.
The Abbot was broken worse.
Raids had two drops everytime and required a stone to loot from warded chest.
There were 13(?) servers.
Mobs would die if reduced to zero Con.
Greensteel.
We begged for Character respec.
There were no grazing hits.
Monks were hated.
FTP released.
General chat blows up.
LFM's requiring a "Tank" for low to mid level quests.
Doom was cried many, many times.

[Sirea]

You know, you guys quoting the troll defeats the purpose me squelching him so I don't have to listen to his tripe :p

Your arguments, no matter how well-worded they are or how much evidence you back them up with, will mean nothing to him. Remember, this is the person who accuses everyone else of exploiting because they don't play the game *his* way :rolleyes:

The way he talks, he probably thinks the game's only been around a year.



What do players miss the most?

I miss the fact that you used to have to learn this game.

[Memnir]

A few things I don't miss...

The days of having only four Enhancement slots per-character.
Warforged having to gain their racial perks via Enhancements.
The Red Tent eating people.

[Thechemicals]

I have noticed over 12 years of playing mmo's that anything that frustrates players is subject to an easing of the rules. When these changes happens, they are treated as a major change in the game. So in essence, major changes happen 2-3 times a year.

The one i cant stand is when a set core rule is in place like say.....Xp loss on death: removed later because players find it too difficult. Xp loss causes anger,frustration, loss of interest.

[Bacab]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ0iXn6F0Ok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SyYQeZ-J58

Same graphics, same UI, same narrations, Character and dungeon style.


So game mechanics, balancing, and bug fixes, with new content are the changes that have happened over the years. The ibggest change i have seen is the guild features and airships. Thats game changing to me. Everything else is additions and balancing.

When i think of change in an MMO i think back to Ultima Online when it did major changes like Permanent red and stat loss for player killers. That was an entire change to the mechanics and style of the game which was meant to be pvp oriented. The biggest change was when they split the worlds into 2 identical clones, one for players killers and one for peopel who didnt want to get pked. These were changes that were huge.

So i have no clue, what to this effect has happened in DDO other than guilds and ships?

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Now back when I played Ultima Online. I really liked how stable it was. It never changed. I was the same as the day I started playing it as it was the day I quit playing it.
It never changed during the 10 Day free pass that a friend gave me and I played it. SO I figure it musta been the same way since beta!

Now...that just seems stupid doesn't it? I am commenting on a renowned game that I played for 10 days...

Kinda like you commenting on DDO.

So either you are a troll...or you just do not know how to read without posting...

Either way...I can -1 rep you...but you can't -1 rep me!

Wanna know why? Because I actually have been around since Gerald Goodblade and the LOW ROAD!

I remember when Bestow Curse was permanent...even death did not fix it.

I remember when if you died...you had to pay an Xp penalty...as in negative XP.

Ya see...since I have been around a while...I have accumulated "Reputation". Now if I was to jump on the Ultima Online FOrums...I am sure the tables would be turned...but I know better than to go to a game that I don't know the history of and make off the hip assumptions.

[hermespan]

How is it different today then is was years ago?

What do players miss the most?

What is new that players like the best?

What has changed and why?

Evasion used to work in heavy armor so you could have a wicked paladin build in mfp and not take damage from aoes. This was a bug in DDO and wasn't supposed to work.
To unlock marketplace you used to have to do the waterworks quest and find Zin in the harbormaster's house to get it started.
The market in marketplace used to be inside a tent that was huge inside, before the subterraene. You had to go up all these ramps to platforms to get to the vendors. (I miss this it was really cool)
The Miller's Basement quest used to be a group quest.
Before Korthos, the inn used to be in the harbor and you had to complete the butcher's path quest to unlock the rest of the harbor.
Initially Drow wasn't a playable race and FvS and Monk weren't in the game yet.
There's a lot of new content to get favor from. When the favor system was released to you pretty much had to do just about every quest at the time on elite to unlock your 1750 32pt build. Drow has always been 400 favor.
Before Korthos there were class specific training quests on a different island that stepped you through your character's abilities. Any character could do all of the training quests, though some couldn't be finished unless you were the right class.

I kinda wish they'd have put a new inn on Korthos and left the wavecrest->harbor->marketplace unlock system in, though the new content in marketplace would have needed to be put somewhere else. That whole area used to have newbie quests in it, one of which was moved to korthos (the crypt quest). The wavecrasher quest moved with the inn to korthos and was modified to include the sahuagin.

PrEs weren't in the game at launch.

Epic, Shroud and crafting weren't in at launch. Shrines used to only be usable once, even on normal.

Overall the new player experience has improved and there's a ton more content. I like the changes that have happened since launch.

It's just about all good stuff. I wish they'd bring the tent back in marketplace.

[Merrelll]

I also miss when the Founders would stand around Redfang Quest and watch people come out of the quest laying on the ground with 0 con. Pleading for a helpful cleric to restore their Con because of the poison that they could not remove themselves had caused their condition. Always was a crowd pleaser!

[Lorien_the_First_One]

The one i cant stand is when a set core rule is in place like say.....Xp loss on death: removed later because players find it too difficult. Xp loss causes anger,frustration, loss of interest.

So you claim there were no major changes, and then give an example of one place the game was dumbed down to make it easier for bad players.

Honestly every time you post your stock goes down.

[flynnjsw]

So you claim there were no major changes, and then give an example of one place the game was dumbed down to make it easier for bad players.

Honestly every time you post your stock goes down.
From post one, he never had any stock.

I walked away after my 10 day free trial because "I had no one to play with". I had been invited by a friend, but he was never on. I didn't really know the way MMO's and DDO worked. I did however, manage to make it as far as the marketplace completly on my own.

I still remember the XP Penalty and how much it hurt.
I still remember Lord Goodblade in the Harbor
The Low Road
The Teleprters in the Houses would only take you to other Houses, and not to the Marketplace.

I really wish I had stuck around.

[KoboldKiller]

I think most people have already hit the nail on the head.

This game went from challenging and required some knowledge and skill to something resembling Candyland.

[ThePage311]

I remember...

Running Redwillow over and over and over because it was the place to get a +1 frost/flaming/etc weapon!

Before Muckbane I had an entire hotbar full of clubs.

Camping the broker with friends so we could each have a wounding weapon for Co6 loot runs.

Web stuck to everything, even mephits.

Retribution.

Retribution.

Retribution.

edit: And back when we used to tag along with AoK from time to time, the Balibution!

[Montrose]

No one knows what Gerald Goodblade is talking about.

Getting a case of old Scully's Grog now is a DDO store trap.

FtP killed LFMs for favorite quests like STK.


Cap lvl 10
No knock spell
No firewall spell
then there were scrolls of firewall
Cloudkill was the easy button.
you could kill things before opening a door.
no everbright.
no transmuting
then they took it away from us.
you actually got XP from Von5.
No desert
The desert was challengng
You had to pay to get to it.
Or do Desert Caravan quest.
There was acctually LFMs for Desert Caravan quest.
It was 30 minutes long.
It had five chests!
No one admired Gary's DM voice.
Threnal caves were a loot run.
most players dont even know there are caves in Threnal
First time we saw a disco ball Hazedil killed whole parties with it.
We ran bases
There was no GS
There was no Auctions!
You hung out at the broker and tried to swipe a W/P before someone else got it.
You could buy +5 Mithral armor at the brokers....and you didn't even have to hang out all day to get it.
We thought the brokers were expensive!
People actually tried to conserve mana.
People were scared of drawing to much agro
soloing was something only the best players did.
More people in group was seen as an asset.
Raid loot (what can I say here)
Everyone knew if you failed or completed the Reaver.
People failed the reaver.
On Normal.
There were LFMs for quests other than raids and loot runs.
when a group wiped, people left the dungeon with the idea of reentering instead of dropping group.
There was no drow.
Drow was considered a good race choice
I would've never considered a vorpal vendor junk.
Silver of Holy/PG was vendor junk.
Wizards could buy any scroll they wanted.
tomes were super rare.

We got a wish for our birthday. :cool:

Here's a few more:

/death was an efficient strategy for Von6
co6 was a loot run
The zombie survival quest in Delera's graveyard was a loot run
And you could see hordes of plat farmers outside the gate running it over and over
People thought WF were gimp, everyone hated them
The original action point system was considered overpowered
+1 tomes were valuable
The chest in the giant cave was unlocked
The chest in the giant cave got locked
Nobody cares about the chest in the giant cave
You could sit and spin
Being a healer was actually challenging

[DANTEIL]

I miss the fact that you used to have to learn this game.


This game went from challenging and required some knowledge and skill to something resembling Candyland.


I realize that the game has changed a lot, and I realize that many of the long time players prefer the game the way it used to be -- and since I wasn't around, I can't speak to that one way or another -- but statements like the ones I've quoted are hard not to take personally. I'm new to the game and still find it challenging with *tons* to learn, and not easy at all! So does that make me incompetent? Is it wrong that I enjoy the game like it is now, even if it may have been "better" in the past? While DDO may be easier in many respects than it used to be, isn't it also possible that this is at least partially confounded with the years of gameplay experience that veteran players are fortunate to have under their belt? I'm not denying that some changes may have been geared toward making the game more accessible. I'm just saying that its frustrating when I read things that seem to belittle the challenges that I have experienced in trying to learn DDO...

[Gaermain]

What I miss:

Running recall.

[markusthelion]

I miss "The Low Road" and the old harbor feel.

I miss the old "STK" (used to be my favorite lowbie quest) now its meh.....

[smatt]

A secret video from Turbine offcie central .... What REALLY happens to bug reports....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww1FyS1twOk

[KoboldKiller]

I realize that the game has changed a lot, and I realize that many of the long time players prefer the game the way it used to be -- and since I wasn't around, I can't speak to that one way or another -- but statements like the ones I've quoted are hard not to take personally. I'm new to the game and still find it challenging with *tons* to learn, and not easy at all! So does that make me incompetent? Is it wrong that I enjoy the game like it is now, even if it may have been "better" in the past? While DDO may be easier in many respects than it used to be, isn't it also possible that this is at least partially confounded with the years of gameplay experience that veteran players are fortunate to have under their belt? I'm not denying that some changes may have been geared toward making the game more accessible. I'm just saying that its frustrating when I read things that seem to belittle the challenges that I have experienced in trying to learn DDO...

I apologize if you feel I slighted you but with the constant "dumbing" down of this game I stand by my statement.

[Thechemicals]

So you claim there were no major changes, and then give an example of one place the game was dumbed down to make it easier for bad players.

Honestly every time you post your stock goes down.

yeh im just going with the grain now. You obviously held onto it longer than i did. Move on.

[Thechemicals]

I apologize if you feel I slighted you but with the constant "dumbing" down of this game I stand by my statement.

I have read this complaint in every mmo i have played. Maybe its an evolution of an mmo more than a negative.

[SINIBYTE]

The game used to advertise no grinding, and it was true.

It's all a grind now.

[KoboldKiller]

I have read this complaint in every mmo i have played. Maybe its an evolution of an mmo more than a negative.


Just because it MAY be the natural progression of MMO's doesn't discount it as a negative.

[Raolin_Darksbane]

Wow kudos to you guys for bringing back a TON of memories from back in the day ~

I remember:
-The excitement of having a character listed on the founders statue in the harbor..
-Level cap 10 before the action points even
-People complaining about how hard some of the vons were
-XP penalties on death
-When the potency robe in Tempest was great stuff
-When +5 mithril FP was godly stuff along with vorpals and paralyzers
-Loot runs in that giant cave in threnal
-Shrines being 1 time use only and if im not mistaken, several quests had LESS shrines than they do now
-The goodblades quests/low road
-I still have a slice of birthday cake on one of my toons :)
-When WF characters had a rough time finding a group due to healing issues

Most of all I remember one of the biggest original ad campaign themes for DDO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9dDBrxAySA

[ThePage311]

Unholy burst

[Fetchi]

I remember when rangers had to stop moving to reload unless they took shot on the run.

[Sirea]

I realize that the game has changed a lot, and I realize that many of the long time players prefer the game the way it used to be -- and since I wasn't around, I can't speak to that one way or another -- but statements like the ones I've quoted are hard not to take personally. I'm new to the game and still find it challenging with *tons* to learn, and not easy at all! So does that make me incompetent? Is it wrong that I enjoy the game like it is now, even if it may have been "better" in the past? While DDO may be easier in many respects than it used to be, isn't it also possible that this is at least partially confounded with the years of gameplay experience that veteran players are fortunate to have under their belt? I'm not denying that some changes may have been geared toward making the game more accessible. I'm just saying that its frustrating when I read things that seem to belittle the challenges that I have experienced in trying to learn DDO...

No offense was meant. What I mean is that learning is now optional in this game. You can choose to learn and grow as a player, or you can just buy/pike your success. The former used to be a lot more common than the latter.

[Cyr]

How is it different today then is was years ago?

What do players miss the most?

What is new that players like the best?

What has changed and why?

How is it different? Well it is WAY easier. Not due to gear, but due to system changes that have been out of control for some time now. Dungeon Scaling, Grazing Hits, Dungeon Alert, Off Hand Hooks, Double Strike, PrE's, and capstones are all system changes that have drastically altered the game. Hirelings and the death penalty change changed things alot too.

What do I miss the most? I miss being able to speed run coal. I miss being able to have an AC toon that was not penalized for some bizzare reason when they were in an elite quest even when the mobs had no hope of hitting them. I miss having in game incentives to group outside of raids and epic content.

What is new that I like? Epic quests in general. It's a good idea to save manpower. it's not so cool that they decided to hit the lazy button on the epic loot and new high level content though.

[biggin]

Soloing wasn't an option for a new player. I remember walking out into the Old Harbor, looking around for a few minutes, then finding a quest. Within 2 minutes I had been beaten to death. Tried it again, same results. So I sat there for a while playing with all the UI buttons and found....the LFM. Maybe people who came from MMO backgrounds had an easier time, but for brand new players it was downright brutal. Walking around cursed in the Harbor until someone took pity on me and explained to me how to remove it myself. There was no tutorial, no help at all really. Just an overwhelming feeling of "Holy ****, what did I get myself into here." But since I had just paid to download the game and a 6 month sub, I stuck it out and learned the best I could.

I remember (as someone mentioned earlier) when the loot tables were wonky and I pulled a ML 14 weapon when the cap was 12 (I still have it to this day). Everyone just stared at the +4 Holy Heavy Mace of Pure Good like a GS weapon had just fallen.

Noone ever used General chat for anything. Ever.

The server was dead during off hours.

Loot weekends were a really big thing. Giant caves and From Beyond the Grave were really fun loot runs ("Please, for the love of God, stay off the dirt!").

The vets were just as mean to us as new players feel we are to them. There were really nice players running around also who took time out to teach, but I never asked unless it was offered.

For a while I just payed my 25 gold to get in and out of the Harbor until I went back for favor. If I found a good group I stuck with them, no matter what they were doing, didn't even matter if it wasn't getting me XP or favor. I was learning the game and having fun.

I think the entire mindset has changed for this game since I started playing. Things that in no way, shape or form would fly back then are daily occurences now. Simply put, the game was much harder, but victory was so much sweeter. Pulling off elite at level quests made for great stories. Teamwork was needed and appreciated by groups. Now it seems it's just easier to solo it and tell my dogs about my great accomplishment.

[lekkus]

My forumdate doesnt reflect this but been playing from april 2006/ Europe, and with some nice nostalgic points made already in this thread, things weren't all that good 4 years ago either. I read there was no grinding but even though the level cap was 10 or 12 (and you could reach lvl 7 in just 1 day...) people had to grind XP to recover XP deaths from trying to do raids which were incredibly buggy. Not because they were bad players. The titan raid had been closed for months on our servers. Demon queen could only be done by using some environmental abnormalities. Dragon? ugh.. depended on what patch we just had. Not to mention doing von1-4 and the desert quests EVERY 3 days... and we didn't exactly zoom through them either like we do now. No casual and things like +5 armor wasn't a given :) If you liked raiding you basically where running the prequests constantly with in the weekends time to level maybe a new alt. I didn't really liked all that but good clerics were adored ingame so that made up for a lot :D

What I do miss though is seeing players running around through the marketplace being cursed or simple.. the excitement I felt when I started the game, standing in a quest with my +1 sword and whatever armor I had found and kobolds were the meanest creatures EVER and I didn't know if I would survive the next encounter if just one off us made a mistake :)

I guess, even with the store in place new players can still experience that so it is all good :cool: Dwelling if the game was better or harder in the past is a bit silly because there were plenty off things not good either. It was just ..different.

[KristovK]

What I miss the most...

The original Starter Area..where you learned how to move, jump, swim, use levers and kill things, as well as class specific trainers who taught you how to mem spells, search for secret doors and traps, disable traps and pick locks, as well as basic combat such as block and tumble. And having to do The Low Road to get into the Harbor proper. And the first few months of the game, dying a LOT just trying to do the first Wavecrest quest if you weren't a fighter class or cleric. Think my very first wizard took 8 tries to finish that while my first rogue took 12. It was solo only, you had to do it to get out of the Wavecrest, and it was a killer. I was in love with DDO with that first real quest and the fact that it just totally kicked my arse as a rogue or wizard :)

Dying actually costing you something, and multiple deaths in a single quest could be real expensive, especially at cap. First time we did the Reaver, no one really knowing what was needed or how to do it, walked in capped(14), finally finished it many hours later and 2 levels lower. Now, it's not too uncommon to have contests to see who can die the most times just because.

Civilized behaviour. In 3 years I was cussed out 0 times by random people, and I NEVER had a new player who I gave help when they asked for it cuss me out. That has happened far too many times to count since F2P started.

Zerging hasn't changed much in the past 4 years, prices for gear haven't changed much either, stupidly high prices were being demanded for gear long before the AH was added.

I do NOT miss the plat seller/level service spams I used to get, props to Turbine for THAT bs not being a problem anymore, especially as the game has gone F2P and those attract a huge amount of the plat seller/level service companies out there.

I like that we've gotten some new classes, only 1 race though..come on, we were told we'd get more races years ago, get on that Turbine. The Enhancement line changes over the past 4 years...don't even know how to describe how that's changed the game, but I definately like the current version over what we started with :) Now if Turbine will finish up the PrEs...

The new content..no real way to try and describe what we started with 4 years ago and what's ingame now. 10 more levels were added to the cap, and more quests for the level increases as well as low level content being changed AND more of it being added. The game is MUCH easier then it was at release, no doubt about that at all. I personally think Turbine is catering to the marginally sentient far too much, but hey, the market is what it is and they are trying to make money as well as entertain us, gotta be some compromise there. An easier to play game that's got more people then I can remember seeing at ANY time in the previous 4 years, or the harder to play game we used to have that would have less then a 100 people on the server at 4am EST(sometimes only a single screen on the Who list..no scroll bar). I'm ok with the changes, not a fan mind you, but ok with them because of the business decisions that created them, and that keep the servers full, which means more content will be forthcoming.

4 plus years, I'm still playing the game, still paying for the game(about to reup for another 6 months no less). I miss a lot of the things the game had when it released, I do NOT miss a lot of the things it no longer has, and I chuckle when I see the same little annoying PIA bugs that are still around after 4 years :)

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I realize that the game has changed a lot, and I realize that many of the long time players prefer the game the way it used to be -- and since I wasn't around, I can't speak to that one way or another -- but statements like the ones I've quoted are hard not to take personally. I'm new to the game and still find it challenging with *tons* to learn, and not easy at all! So does that make me incompetent? Is it wrong that I enjoy the game like it is now, even if it may have been "better" in the past? While DDO may be easier in many respects than it used to be, isn't it also possible that this is at least partially confounded with the years of gameplay experience that veteran players are fortunate to have under their belt? I'm not denying that some changes may have been geared toward making the game more accessible. I'm just saying that its frustrating when I read things that seem to belittle the challenges that I have experienced in trying to learn DDO...

Naw, we don't mean to attack players who are willing to learn. And you are correct things do get easier with experience. But overall the challenge was higher back in the day, significantly. Even as it is now this game does have a steeper learning curve than most of the games out there. However, on a relative basis, it is easier to play, both for new and vet players.

Good players that are just joining today have risen to the old challenges too, it just would have taken more that it takes today. This is most obvious in soloing where it used to be reserved for the best of the best players and was worth posting about, now its often easier than grouping, even for new players.

I swear the only reason I didn't get kicked from my guild in the first year I played was because they were great people. Lord knows I sucked. What I did was I listened. I found mentors in and out of the guild and I learned. (Well I still do suck but that's another story).

[Hellllboy]

I miss the days where you put in your bio the # of days you had been ransacked in the Giant Caves of Threnal (lol)


Good times. ;)

[lekkus]

What I miss the most...

The original Starter Area..where you learned how to move, jump, swim, use levers and kill things, as well as class specific trainers who taught you how to mem spells, search for secret doors and traps, disable traps and pick locks, as well as basic combat such as block and tumble. And having to do The Low Road to get into the Harbor proper. And the first few months of the game, dying a LOT just trying to do the first Wavecrest quest if you weren't a fighter class or cleric. Think my very first wizard took 8 tries to finish that while my first rogue took 12. It was solo only, you had to do it to get out of the Wavecrest, and it was a killer. I was in love with DDO with that first real quest and the fact that it just totally kicked my arse as a rogue or wizard :)

Dying actually costing you something, and multiple deaths in a single quest could be real expensive, especially at cap. First time we did the Reaver, no one really knowing what was needed or how to do it, walked in capped(14), finally finished it many hours later and 2 levels lower. Now, it's not too uncommon to have contests to see who can die the most times just because.

Civilized behaviour. In 3 years I was cussed out 0 times by random people,


Aww those poor rogues and the mean spiders lol and yea, the Low Road ...still miss that quest. Really felt liked you were advancing into the game and I can't remember how often I've seen people yell in guild "Oh yea baby, I made it to the marketplace!!" after finishing WW :D

[Talon_Moonshadow]

a quick couple more.


Shooting a bow looked cool......like my favorite Green Arrow pose.

Stumbling through the market, back into a tavern and finding the Silver Flame guy to cure my blindness.

[vyvy3369]

Answers in Lime.

How is it different today then is was years ago?
It's effectively a completely different game. There have been so many major overhauls, that someone who played at the very beginning would effectively have to learn just as much as someone who had never played before.

What do players miss the most?
Saves vs. Enervate. That change upset me almost as much as the introduction of Renard's I'm-A-Kulgan-Impersonator Hat. Almost everything else was either beneficial or at least didn't really bug me.

What is new that players like the best?
When I'm not frustrated over the grind, being able to customize high-end gear. It's rather nice that you can have identical builds, but give them completely different gear and they'll behave fairly differently.

[Carat]

Fernia rules!

The night of the server merge, the sense of community up to the last couple of minutes of Fernia was tremendous. I still remember the server shut-down countdown for the last night of Fernia - small community sure meant good friends.

The comments about the super-hard harbour for new players - no kidding. I had the 30 day pass with the game and almost quit because it was so bloody hard with no gear and no money until you learned. You'd run around cursed because you didn't have the money to buy the potion. One use shrines for both the rest and rez. Although the game has definitely been dumbed down, the old version probably scared a few people away.

[Bloodstealer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ0iXn6F0Ok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SyYQeZ-J58

Same graphics, same UI, same narrations, Character and dungeon style.


So game mechanics, balancing, and bug fixes, with new content are the changes that have happened over the years. The ibggest change i have seen is the guild features and airships. Thats game changing to me. Everything else is additions and balancing.

When i think of change in an MMO i think back to Ultima Online when it did major changes like Permanent red and stat loss for player killers. That was an entire change to the mechanics and style of the game which was meant to be pvp oriented. The biggest change was when they split the worlds into 2 identical clones, one for players killers and one for peopel who didnt want to get pked. These were changes that were huge.

So i have no clue, what to this effect has happened in DDO other than guilds and ships?
Hmmm then unfortunately you have'nt been around long enuff to perhaps even realise that the Harbor itself has changed - Korthos became its replacement entry quests.
STK just isnt the same anymore - like most things in game the challenge has been largeely diluted, or if you find summing thats a touch more difficult to overcoem - hit ddo store and buy ur way thro it.
Groups rarely need a balanced approach anymore, toons are to overpowered at low levels - alot of your Korthos gear u still end up running around using till like 8+ cos it still has some mileage for you.

Instead of nerfing mobs and traps bring in some randomness - random trap location, random mob generation/location. Heck even up scale trap dmg to stop players simply walking thro them or worse, walking round them.

Death Penalty was brilliant - cos it was an individual penalty - it wud certainly help eleviate many of the repeated player bashing threads on the forums cos new players or idiots just cost the whole party their xp bonus - grps wud just end up laffing at the player then moving on again.
Named loot has become almost the norm nowaday, when it was actually a real "whoooa thats sooo cool" back in the early days - the loot drop rate seems much much easier now.

[ZAKNAFIEN]

So many things I miss....not really things, because I know games change as they stay around but here are some of the glitches and expoits that used to be really fun and that we ALL would complain about once they were gone. It was fun beetchin and moanin..Been around since the first day the game started.

Lvl 10......You really didnt know you rolled a gimp toon....I still have my first one

no enhancements.

Human Versatiliy as a feat rather than a clicky. Ahh.....Human Pally, with rogue evasion....speaking of evasion

Evasion pally's...lmao....Pally's in mithral FP with rogue for the evasion feat. Turbine fixed that really quick.

Being able to hit the #3 key and attack at the same time to get like 10 attacks a second.

When Desert Caravan WAS the Quest everyone tried to avoid or at least no one attempted it on elite.

Giant cave loot runs....Ahhhh. hold monster

Chat window only having the occasional pst....

knowing almost all people that were lvl 10.

Running with Saaluta(cleric on Khyber)

[Frodo_Lives]

I remember platemail, ANY platemail was super rare and +4 was powerful, +5 made you a god.

Jewelry and clothing were really really rare, people were using chain quest rewards simply because they were better than anything you pulled unless you were very lucky.

You got a full list of all end rewards every time you ran the quest chain, and they were all bound to character.

Con was a dump stat on many builds.

Elemental of pure good weapons were the items in demand.

Multiclassing meant you sucked.

Warforged were horrible, and rangers were considered almost as bad (That's why I rolled up a WF ranger, just to see how many groups I could be denied from)

Death penalty (please bring back!!!)

The jewelry and clothing vendors were in house P and J and were always empty.

Soloing was an art form.

Raid loot had a static two drops that the leader decided who got what, shortmanning raids was the norm.

Guilds did not blindly recruit anyone, you actually had to run with them and show them that you would be a good fit for them and they for you.

The game was much more difficult, but also much more inclusive (other than raids). You never got turned down because you were new, or because you didn't have X equipment, and most people were more than happy to show you what to do or answer questions.

[kaelis]

Moderation of the forums and in game activities wasn't oppressive, tyrannical or fueled by PMSing.

[dormetheus]

Shadowrun Dancing
Tumbling while sneaking
WF didn't have their immunities
Humans got permanent Versatility enhancements
Ring of Trollish Regen (removed for being "overpowered")
Mobs sat in Cloudkills
Cloudkills through doors
Firewalls stacked !!!
buying and scrolling firewalls (it was how the "leet" solo'd most content)
Falchions were gimp and slow
Sever Merge! (increasing potential character slots)
PoP = 15k xp on norm!! Madstone = 20k!
Introduction of "Wilderness" zones


People were generally more generous with a sense of community > greed.

[lyeman]

How is it different today then is was years ago?

It used to be good.



What do players miss the most?

Not having hordes of morons playing.



What is new that players like the best?

Just a guess: Screwing up quests for veterans?



What has changed and why?

Eberron unlimited, and quite obviously the devs' addiction to snorting used cat litter got the better of them.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

best change was when they allowed bards to move while singing.

Ok, maybe not the best change, but it was HUUUGEE at the time.

Oh, and casting while moving - before it would just interrupt your casting, now you slow down to half speed. HUGE!!!

Garth