DDO Store from the perspective of a VIP player that started out as F2P

[Sylvurdragon]

This was originally posted by me as a comment on a thread on DDO-Daily, but I felt that this bares repeating...I'm curious what the general DDO population thinks:

I actually started DDO because it went F2P, so I wasn’t around during the troubled times…I heard about it all from listening to every episode of DDOCast, but unless you’re actually there, there’s not much to say…

That being said, though…I think that the F2P market has been taken to the next level by going above and beyond what was originally stated that the store was going to be used for. (and not in a good way). True, I did use the store to buy many of the favor reward items just because I’m not really a farmer, but I did so after I went VIP and spent some time learning the game. I also used my own earned TP to do so. I never bought TP (other than the first pack when I went from f2p to premium prior to going VIP)


A few of the items that I find ridiculous are the new “beholder resist” potions & Death Block potions etc and the fact that now acid weapons are available in store. I understand these are optional and “If you don’t like it, don’t buy it”…but we can’t control what others in our groups do. Say we get into a PUG running through a VON 4…we get to the beholder area, and Joeschmo McMillan shouts:


“Hold on guys let me grab a potion”
2 minutes later
“ok hold up here while i take out the beholders”
5 min later
“All clear”


The room that had at least a marginal challenge is now a cakewalk. When I saw those in the store I thought to myself “really? is that what we’re resorting to”
Also, these items aren’t even found in the game. I think Steiner-Davion said something about this on ddocast the other day. Isn’t the point of the DDO store to be able to buy convenience items. Nothing that you can get in store, you can’t earn in game in some capacity…well I’ll give a few examples:


Astral Diamonds (not earnable and incredibly expensive)
aforementioned potions
Ethereal Shrines? Really? *sigh*
Lesser and Greater hearts of wood – you should be able to earn these in game to grant you the privilege of re-rolling your toon.


You know what would be awesome! Since Astral Diamonds are part of Ebberon lore…why not make it so that you can actually EARN astral diamonds in game…then make these potions of hearts of wood available from a special merchant in house P that sells oddities for astral diamonds…AND you could save them to buy a ship! You could even give an exchange rate of like 50,000 or 100,000Plat for 1 Astral diamond.


Who can say “Great Plat Sink” ;)


I love the fact that DDO went F2P...it may have fallen if it hadn't and I wouldn't be playing this great game...but I think that the value of the DDO store has been spoiled by the almighty dollar. Lets go back to what was originally promised to the players and start making things that you can buy in store, available in game...give high level players something to spend their hard earned plat on. Maybe even having the option of acquiring greater hearts of wood as well as True hearts of wood so that we aren't forced to shell out 1200TP to re-roll.. We can just EARN the right to.


This isn't a rant, this is just the perspective of a relatively new player. I'm interested in seeing your opinion on this.


I'm not slamming Turbine, I think they're doing great...but this is one thing I really hope will be changed at some point in the future.


Thank you for your time and I value your feedback. :cool:

[Ulurjah]

Hi, Welcome.

1.) You can get some beholder immunity items elsewhere.
2.) The reincarnation hearts are available via in game mechanics.
3.) Not sure about the Astral Diamonds.

[Teldurn]

Hi, Welcome.
No

Hi WelcomeYes

[GreenGurgler]

Very well said, +1 rep for you!

I couldn't agree more with your assessment. Unfortunately, I am not optimistic that this will change for the 'better' any time soon, if ever. We have started down a slippery slope designed to micro-transaction us to death (figuratively). The hound has smelled the blood and cannot be stopped from pursuing that trail.

It was sold as a logical transition that paralleled the real world of DnD (you have to buy modules, right??) which made sense. But it has morphed into something more. It has become a machine to try and squeeze as many nickels as possible out of players regardless of all else. Its like bribing your tabletop DM ( with real world cash) to automatically give you the tools needed to win your next challenge. And in doing so it has the potential to completely eliminate that challenge. No DM worth his weight in Doritos would ever allow this kind of BS to happen. He may put the means to an end in the quest for you to discover and earn for yourself, but slipping him $5 would not make you immune to that nasty beholder you are about to face.

Now hold on you people who will inevitably shout "Turbine is a for profit company, they need to make money to provide you with the game you love" and I whole heartedly agree. Turbine is a business and we are customers. The relationship we share is one that is carried out millions of times a day by people all over the world: exchange goods for services or services for cash. I have no fundamental problem with that.

To me, this goes above and beyond what is considered 'good form' and an acceptable desire to maximize profits.
Sure, no one makes me buy the stuff, and I don't, but we were told this was going to be exhibit A and instead it has morphed into Exhibit B.

I don't doubt for a second that the top dogs at Turbine always ALWAYS intended this to be as pervasive as it is becoming. But they knew they could not sell it outright as such a drastic move would enrage too many too fast. The old boil a frog slowly metaphor comes to mind. Start teasing them with crumbs, lure them in with bigger and better things that they cant earn in game. Break classes then sell the means to a fix...***?!

There are far to many things that CANNOT be earned in game and can only be purchased in the store and this is a bad trend in my opinion. Things that should be in the game, even if rare are only sold in store.

OK, my last kooky and tinfoil hat opinion on microtransactions in general??? In 10 years they will be outlawed as an addictive behavior and a misleading business practice. The very premise of microtransactions is based on the idea that people don't like to spend in big chunks and when they do, they are more cautious about what they spend vs little bites here and there. When people are nickeled and dimed, they tend not to notice and will make poor choices that they would not do normally.
This is a nutty sentiment I realize, but is it far fetched to think a government would declare an activity too harmful to the population to allow it to exist? No, no government would never do that... :rolleyes:
Unless the gaming industry starts employing mega lobbyists and major bankrolls to politicians.

Anyway, I have already said too much, I agree with the OP and applaud him for his well spoken opinion.

[Sylvurdragon]

Hi, Welcome.

1.) You can get some beholder immunity items elsewhere.
2.) The reincarnation hearts are available via in game mechanics.
3.) Not sure about the Astral Diamonds.

Thanks! a few things though.

1. I know you can get death ward...but full immunity from Beholder rays? Didn't know about that one.

2. True reincarnation is achievable through in-game mechanics, however lessar and greater are only available in store (as stated by the Devs)

3. Astral Diamonds, as of right now, aren't available in game by any means. (also stated by Devs) :)

Btw - not entirely new and I've been around the forums a bit lol - I started back in September 2009 when F2P came out - i just have a lowbie toon cause i moved servers recently ;)

[dunklezhan]

Hi, Welcome.

1.) You can get some beholder immunity items elsewhere.
2.) The reincarnation hearts are available via in game mechanics.
3.) Not sure about the Astral Diamonds.

Um... only the full true reincarnaton hearts are available in game. The Lesser 'I've made a mistake and want to fix it, not start again at L1' Reincarnation items are not.

I agree with the OP and Green Gurgler entirely. Turbine's answer to date - however unsatisfactory and sophistic - is: you can earn Favour in game, which as a consequence earns to Turbine Points, therefore you are able to get anything in the store via purely in game means.

Edit: agree with GG semi entirely. There's nothing wrong with Microtransactions, and Turbines business model is **** near perfect in that regard - its not exploitative (at the moment) and its not game breaking (at the moment), and the fact they let you permanently buy content which then allows you to earn their in game currency faster and in more varied ways is very good form indeed, demonstrating the right encouraging and non-greedy attitude that will win many hearts and minds and encourage more spending from those that appreciate such things. The various things only available with Turbine Points are however the first sign that they've not only seen the top of the slippery slope but have started taking a run up...

[sweez]

Ethereal rest shrines can be earned in-game by turning in Large Eberron Dragonshard fragments.

[dunklezhan]

Ethereal rest shrines can be earned in-game by turning in Large Eberron Dragonshard fragments.

That's brilliant to know, and an example of how things should be done. They need to think of ways to earn the other stuff in game that is currently genuinely store only (lesser hearts, that extra character bank slot that is on top of the House K rep reward etc). By all means it should be via way of rare drops or obscene amounts of plat and such, but it should be there.

[sweez]

That's brilliant to know, and an example of how things should be done. They need to think of ways to earn the other stuff in game that is currently genuinely store only (lesser hearts, that extra character bank slot that is on top of the House K rep reward etc). By all means it should be via way of rare drops or obscene amounts of plat and such, but it should be there.

I absolutely agree. However, having not done it by now, I doubt they ever will.

[Postumus]

They need to think of ways to earn the other stuff in game that is currently genuinely store only


NSI (No Snark Intended), but can't you do that now by earning favor?

[Ovrad]

Thanks! a few things though.

1. I know you can get death ward...but full immunity from Beholder rays? Didn't know about that one.
[...]

There's one item (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Necklaces/BeholderOpticNerves.jpg) that does that, but quite hard to find. And of course, with limited charges.

[Sylvurdragon]

There's one item (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Necklaces/BeholderOpticNerves.jpg) that does that, but quite hard to find. And of course, with limited charges.

Ahh - thanks for that. Completely forgot about its existence lol - Ok so there is one item that does this...thats a higher level rare item though right? I know the character level is 7 but isn't it acquired much later on?

[Wizard_Zero]

I agree with much of the post. I hate the fact that you can buy your way to greatness. +2 Supreme Ability Tome and infinite mana pots will make you invincible and be able to do any quest with ease, even Epics.

The thing I am really worried about is the Astral Diamond. That is the first real big item that is DDO store exclusive (Can't grind it in the game). Not only is it a very important item, but pretty much a mandatory item, otherwise having a guild or even grinding renown is pointless. And it is not cheap on DDO points either. I'm afraid that is just the start, next there will be even better items that are DDO exclusive.

Not everyone is rich and if DDO keeps trying to milk every penny out of it's players, people are gonna feel used. I know DDO is a business and needs to make money, but sometimes there are limits. XBox Live is a good example, they don't allow "buyable" content that will allow one player to have a great advantage over another, keeps things fair and Microsoft still makes money.

I feel that anything offered in the DDO store, should be attainable in the game.

That is just my thoughts.

[testing1234]

I feel that anything offered in the DDO store, should be attainable in the game.

That is just my thoughts.

boooring, fair yes but horrible boring.
the ddo store if in the game should be a positive thing it should have items that we the gamers want at the same time not being game breaking.
my short desribtion should be that the items in the store should never be a more powerful version of a ingame item, fine with items that cant be gotten ingame unless they are very powerful.
example it be fine if a ingame cosmetic hat (only changes look) gives 1%extra stacking run speed, sure there are no ingame item that can do this but still it fills a need while arnt game breaking.

[MadFloyd]

I absolutely agree. However, having not done it by now, I doubt they ever will.

Ahhh, but you're wrong. We're working on that actually... :)

Good thread.

[Sylvurdragon]

Ahhh, but you're wrong. We're working on that actually... :)

Good thread.

It always makes me smile when Dev's chime with with some good news! :D Thanks MadFloyd.

[MrkGrismer]

Ahhh, but you're wrong. We're working on that actually... :)

Good thread.

So Soon™?

[Bloodstealer]

Ahhh, but you're wrong. We're working on that actually... :)

Good thread.

Could you also work on getting rid of all the stuff in the store that makes it easy for toons to just power up be invincible almost all the way thro quests, swallowing unlimited amounts of mana pots, Cure pots, res cakes and shrine cakes makes this game a lesser game in so many ways - bring back some real challenge plzzz dont make the only possible wipe scenario when all players in party have no TP's or cash left to buy one more res cake :)
Also un nerf STK or Stormcleave and other quests that someone somewhere whinged were to darn hard - bring back some challenge so that players, even very new players can't actually get to cap a toon so quickly without actually learning something along the way... and get rid of that darn share quest thing, it drives me insane when players can't be bothered to go find the quest giver, even tho you have to actually speak to some of them to open the quest portal (but leave the share option for Hound and VOD cos... well bahh u know why, there's always some numpty who forgets it....hides in corner :)

[Cam_Neely]

I think the people that run DDO are smarter then you give them credit for. They know that if the game becomes cash shop dependent it will go down the drain (ie no$$$ at all) like other games that have done this. I used to play Rappelz, which was a fun game with a huge community and good balance. Long story short the point of the game was to get strong pets. They kept coming out with strong tier pets, but the only realistic way to get them was to buy cards (which allowed you to tame the pet) in the cash shop. That was alright

But what tipped the scale was when you could by tame protects. Before the economy was balanced that if you failed a tame the card was gone. These new $50 items let you still have the card after to retry. They were to be a permitted addition to the Cash shop. In the first week they were out I personally knew people that dropped over $2000 on them to get the White Dragon Pet. Others spent more. The GM responsible for this was fired (very hush hush) and one morning Tame protects where out of the cash shop to be a 'semi annual sale'. That was a few months ago, and I still talk to a few people that play and the game is dead, with very few players any more.

In short, hopefully (and I think they are) the people that Run DDO have a better idea of where a good balanceis

[Therigar]

I started playing DDO as soon as I was able to buy up a copy in the military exchange when I was living in Germany. Turns out I missed launch by several months. I have had four active VIP accounts -- two for me and one for each of my two kids. I have been playing D&D since before there was an A in AD&D (which, of course, is now gone again).

I have written many rants about the incompetence of Turbine and been involved in various, extended, arguments with other forum posters. All of that as a preface to say that, unlike the OP, I've been here for a while.

When Turbine introduced the idea of F2P I was skeptical and I was strongly against the Turbine store. I felt that it was just too easy. I see some of that sentiment in OP's post.

But, I really have no problem at this point with how DDO:EU has progressed or with the options available via the Turbine Store. There are a few reasons for this.

1. In some cases we asked for the ability to do something -- the store offers that. Yes, I can buy Turbine Points. But I can also earn them. The option is mine. It puts me completely in control. If I want that particular feature I can decide how to get the points to buy it from the store.
2. Buying from the store is not, really, any different than buying from an in-game NPC. It simply is less role-playing. A recent post to the forums complained that the reincarnate dialogue was not clear enough. That is an in-game NPC interaction. Some people want that role-playing feel. Others want direct and clear. The Turbine Store is direct and clear.
3. The real advantage lies with Premium accounts that have purchased all of the modules and either earned or purchased race, class and build options. They have the full run of the game without the yearly fees. And, a cost analysis has shown that it is actually cheaper to be a Premium account and to have bought all of the options out of the store. This is the reason 3 of my 4 accounts have been switched off the VIP option.
4. In the long run there is nothing in the store that really changes the game. It is still possible to complete the various quests without any store bought goodies. OTOH, having the store bought goodies does simplify and speed up many quests. There is nothing quite like having 100 mana pots at your disposal and being able to run a quest in a quarter of the time it use to take -- all because you don't have to conserve mana and you don't have to worry that the PuG you are in is full of completely inexperienced players.

So, I've come to view the Turbine Store in a positive way in glaring contrast to my original feelings. Now, if they would just give us tuxedos to go with those top hats and armor dyes -- and display our cloaks -- it would be all good.

[sigtrent]

That's brilliant to know, and an example of how things should be done. They need to think of ways to earn the other stuff in game that is currently genuinely store only (lesser hearts, that extra character bank slot that is on top of the House K rep reward etc). By all means it should be via way of rare drops or obscene amounts of plat and such, but it should be there.

BTW Lesser and greater hearts were one of the prizes for the egg hunt game they run from time to time. At the time they had bigger ones there than in the store.

There is an item that grants beholder immunity for X number of rays. There are also the scarabs that effectively do the same thing but for any spell, and there is the mantle of the world shaper and there are others... My HOTD paladin is pretty much 95% beholder proof as he's immune to neg levels and saves the rest of it on a 2 or better. I pretty much just ignore beholders in quests.

I don't see anything in the store that remotely replaces what good builds, gear and play do. Lots of it gives you second chances. I've used res cakes before as have others I know. It's like putting another quarter in the game machine (if you remember how that works... lol) If you rely on that to win... well it just means you aren't all that good and you know it. If you don't need any of it... then clearly you rock the dungeon.

Why do I care if someone wants to pay some cash to fudge their chances. So long as I don't feel compelled to spend money to play I'm happy with whatever they put in there. The thing that got me to pony up cash was reincarnation. The ability to play around and adjust builds is wonderful for me and I'm willing to pay for the luxury of doing so. It hardly makes me any more or less able to play the game well.

[Bloodstealer]

I think the people that run DDO are smarter then you give them credit for. They know that if the game becomes cash shop dependent it will go down the drain (ie no$$$ at all) like other games that have done this. I used to play Rappelz, which was a fun game with a huge community and good balance. Long story short the point of the game was to get strong pets. They kept coming out with strong tier pets, but the only realistic way to get them was to buy cards (which allowed you to tame the pet) in the cash shop. That was alright

But what tipped the scale was when you could by tame protects. Before the economy was balanced that if you failed a tame the card was gone. These new $50 items let you still have the card after to retry. They were to be a permitted addition to the Cash shop. In the first week they were out I personally knew people that dropped over $2000 on them to get the White Dragon Pet. Others spent more. The GM responsible for this was fired (very hush hush) and one morning Tame protects where out of the cash shop to be a 'semi annual sale'. That was a few months ago, and I still talk to a few people that play and the game is dead, with very few players any more.

In short, hopefully (and I think they are) the people that Run DDO have a better idea of where a good balanceis


Similar concept here only we call our pets guildies :).... but they never hand over any cash... dang back to the drawing board!

[Missing_Minds]

Ahh - thanks for that. Completely forgot about its existence lol - Ok so there is one item that does this...thats a higher level rare item though right? I know the character level is 7 but isn't it acquired much later on?

Not really. It drops out of Invaders, lvl 10 min, harbor quest. F2P at that.

[Karavek]

Alot of the negative views about the DDO store really surprise me. Its pretty well known by now that the only reason this game didnt go extinct is because of the success of the DDO store.

E store MMO first took me by surprise my first experiance was with a FTP MMO called Tales of Pirates. One of the many korean anime style MMO out there.

It was actually very well done though, with a decent set of classess, crafting, mini games, and both pvevp and normal arena style pvp. Both of which had greeat rewards in fact surpassing everything else found in game.

Combined with the fact the E store sold limited amounts of the very best item upgrades, and limited edition special items, all of which had major impact on a characters power, E store items where always quickly sold out to the most competetive players.

This was not a bad thing as clearly only the most active and devoted players also wanted the very best gear, and in fact they even had limits based on account activity on how much you could spend on the e store. meaning that you had to be a regular activeconsumer to have the right to spend enough on those super special items.

It is in this way a FTP game really insures its survival. By creating a good pvp population that will pay whatever it takes to keep thier edge. Meanwhile the care bear pve players can just pretend both dont exist but silently be thankful are there to support the game all the TP grinders are to cheap to despite thier supposed greater love of the game and purer gamer spirit.

[Lissyl]

To the person asking to have mana pots taken out:

You can have them removed the exact same moment every RL and group leader, meleebot, manasponge, and group member carries a pot to cure every status effect, all their own haste pots, their greater heroism clickies, reconstruct scrolls, UMD's their own blur wands, and the myriads of other things that my spellpoints go to fuel for you. Until then, you let ~me~ decide if and when I want to use a mana pot and where I want to obtain it from. Thank you.

[Sylvurdragon]

Alot of the negative views about the DDO store really surprise me. Its pretty well known by now that the only reason this game didnt go extinct is because of the success of the DDO store.

E store MMO first took me by surprise my first experiance was with a FTP MMO called Tales of Pirates. One of the many korean anime style MMO out there.

It was actually very well done though, with a decent set of classess, crafting, mini games, and both pvevp and normal arena style pvp. Both of which had greeat rewards in fact surpassing everything else found in game.

Combined with the fact the E store sold limited amounts of the very best item upgrades, and limited edition special items, all of which had major impact on a characters power, E store items where always quickly sold out to the most competetive players.

This was not a bad thing as clearly only the most active and devoted players also wanted the very best gear, and in fact they even had limits based on account activity on how much you could spend on the e store. meaning that you had to be a regular activeconsumer to have the right to spend enough on those super special items.

It is in this way a FTP game really insures its survival. By creating a good pvp population that will pay whatever it takes to keep thier edge. Meanwhile the care bear pve players can just pretend both dont exist but silently be thankful are there to support the game all the TP grinders are to cheap to despite thier supposed greater love of the game and purer gamer spirit.

Thank you for your input (everyone else too)

Again, I don't want anyone to think that I completely dislike the store or am throwing a BOOOO Turbine stone through their window...thats not the case at all. I only wanted to bring to light that there are things that are DDO Store exclusive, when Turbine specifically stated that this was not going to be the case. Madfloyd's comment is exactly what I was hoping to accomplish, so kudo's to him :cool:

I admit that I haven't been around the block for too long...only a little less than a year, so some of my information was invalid, and corrected. Thanks for that as well :)

I like the DDO Store for the most part. The ability to purchase packs, additional bank slots, and the server favor rewards are a great addition. I don't even really mind the potion thing much... I did mind the beholder one, until I learned about the item that does the same thing. I just have a minor issue with a few of the items in there that make the game easier than it needs to be. I guess in that regard, to each their own. My biggest gripe recently was with the implementation of the Astral Diamonds. These items, as has been mentioned before in various casts, are part of Eberron lore. They can easily be inserted in the game as a droppable or purchasable item, but as of right now they are not. They are DDOStore exclusive and incredibly expensive.

Madfloyd's quick comment gave me some hope that this may be something they are looking at in the future. Which is good considering they are talking about having Astral Diamonds being used for other in game items.

Keep the comments coming. I'm enjoying the feedback :)

[muffinlad]

BTW- It would be great if you would:

A) Change the reward for 400 Free Agent Favor to something that is better than having ONE person have a reduced injury chance for weapons. Perhaps, letting EVERY repair person have that lesser chance (even if you pay more.)

B) Add an actual favor reward for 400 Coin Lords favor. Buing Astral Diamonds in game for plat seems like a nice reward.

muffinfavor

[Bloodstealer]

To the person asking to have mana pots taken out:

You can have them removed the exact same moment every RL and group leader, meleebot, manasponge, and group member carries a pot to cure every status effect, all their own haste pots, their greater heroism clickies, reconstruct scrolls, UMD's their own blur wands, and the myriads of other things that my spellpoints go to fuel for you. Until then, you let ~me~ decide if and when I want to use a mana pot and where I want to obtain it from. Thank you.

Lol someone obviously likes to down the elixirs then - if u think that buffing or healing a grp is a mana sponge then something is wrong in ur grp - buffing is part and parcel of a grp orientated casters role, much like helaing is for a cleric.. mostly :)
If however you are having to constantly over buff, repeat buff cos of deaths or over heal a grps then maybe question your useage or maybe even the toons being a little underpowered and wasting ur SP for you , in which case sometimes u need to be cruel to be kind and save ur resources.
I run many differnt healers and casters and always buff, and keep grps topped up but rarely do I run outta SP because of it. The casters that tend to sup the mem pots are those who unfortuantley like to watch their own kill counts and throw SP away needlessly when there is actually 5 or even 11 others that cud also help with taking out the trash mobs.

By having an endless stream of mem pots at ur disposal it takes away any need for SP management and in most cases any need for other players cos ur caster / healer is already a very powerful force in DDO, this just makes them even more so.

But at the end of the day if thats how u wanna play then thats ur business, we all have different playstyles and different demands from the game - personally I prefer challenge rather than walking thro a quest and falling asleep by the end of it all.

[Bloodstealer]

Alot of the negative views about the DDO store really surprise me. Its pretty well known by now that the only reason this game didnt go extinct is because of the success of the DDO store.

E store MMO first took me by surprise my first experiance was with a FTP MMO called Tales of Pirates. One of the many korean anime style MMO out there.

It was actually very well done though, with a decent set of classess, crafting, mini games, and both pvevp and normal arena style pvp. Both of which had greeat rewards in fact surpassing everything else found in game.

Combined with the fact the E store sold limited amounts of the very best item upgrades, and limited edition special items, all of which had major impact on a characters power, E store items where always quickly sold out to the most competetive players.

This was not a bad thing as clearly only the most active and devoted players also wanted the very best gear, and in fact they even had limits based on account activity on how much you could spend on the e store. meaning that you had to be a regular activeconsumer to have the right to spend enough on those super special items.

It is in this way a FTP game really insures its survival. By creating a good pvp population that will pay whatever it takes to keep thier edge. Meanwhile the care bear pve players can just pretend both dont exist but silently be thankful are there to support the game all the TP grinders are to cheap to despite thier supposed greater love of the game and purer gamer spirit.

I don't disageee with you and if the store was supplying what was originally intended then players wudnt feel the need to voice a concern. Selling things that quite frankly take away things like balancing grps based on quest demands, limitless SP / Heals, takes away the need for SP management as you no longer need to consider what SP to use and when based on when your next shrines is avaialable, especially when your on Hard or Elite as the shrines dont reset.

I mean why sell things like bells of opening - surely if u want to be able to open locked doors, chests etc then u balance the party appropriately or u train yourself with a class skill for it. Otherwise why roll stats and build up points in certain skills - hell let everyone have all skills to do all jobs.

Additionally by having all the special gear - like luck hats, secret door twigs etc etc - it takes away the randomness of loot drops and begins to further over power toons for quests. Even the Trade / AH elements stand to be affected adversely to certain degree - heck i need it so Ill go buy it from the store rather than spending something that u never stop earning in the game - yes plat - sooner or later ull be able to go get that banishing rapier you needed for RWTD or a smiter for Rainbow or a vorpal or..... Heck why not sell wands of FOD, Implosion and WOTB just so your Barbarian can have a play with some instant death spells cos he/she is fed up with the caster draining all their SP to satisfy their own kill counts then topping back up with a few pots ready to go again, while they stand around shruging their shoulders and contemplating selling all his or her weapons and catching the last teleport to the unwanted lands.

Where is the line drawn between this being a role play based game with luck, and chance to that of who has the larger credit limit to buy more points so as to buy all the gear from the store cos challenge means putting effort in to learnt the game and thats just to darn difficult.
Why not take away chests, end reards and crafting parts - just give everyone some renown points for finishing the quest and some TP's to go and get what you want. You can buy all your tier 1 GS stuff now - how soon before tier 2 & 3, maybe even some TOD boots or runes for your DT armour.
Then again why not do away with having to flag for raids all together - just buy an entrance ticket from the store..... it cud go on and on - then this no longer is a game, is it!

[My2Cents]

That higher level hirelings (especially) were much cheaper, and/or I could use more than 1 vendor bought hireling at a time.

If they were cheaper, I'd buy more, and probably spend more in the long run. As it is I am very hesitant to spend $1-$2 just for one dungeon run (or one "evening session" of non-city rest, etc.)

My biggest concern for the DDO store is that it just become a reward for the rich (in real life $$$). Thats a race I can't win, and I don't want to play in. We have enough of that with search engine placement. I saw it happen in other games and it boiled down to groups of kiddies with rich parents who would just give them lots of money to keep them entertained. That game became pointless to continue with.

Most of the other stuff, shrines, siberys cakes etc., are also very expensive so I don't buy them often...but theyre not as critical.

Did you ever wonder what would happen if DDO store prices were halved? Would VIP memberships increase and store purchases increase as more people became invested and immersed in DDO? I can't help but wonder if DDO revenue would double. I would love to see a 50% week or 50% month all across the board as a test.

Or give VIP's 50% off as we're already pledging monthly contributions...

[deathtouch]

Maybe like they do in Guild Wars, on your characters birthday you get a present, I know a TR or lesser would be an awesome present to get :)

[parvo]

Some of the items in the store are incredibly short-sighted. You can't maintain the integrity of the game by putting in dangerous monsters and then selling (for RL money) complete immunity to them. The stuff they are selling at the DDO store, makes plat sellers look small-time.

[Ollathir]

Thanks! a few things though.

1. I know you can get death ward...but full immunity from Beholder rays? Didn't know about that one.





There's one item (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Necklaces/BeholderOpticNerves.jpg) that does that, but quite hard to find. And of course, with limited charges.


Actually, I've used them all at one time or another and these do the same thing.

From Litany (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Rings/EyeoftheBeholder.jpg)

Random Drop (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Trinkets/ScarabofProtection.jpg)

First Silver Flame Trinket Upgrade (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Necklaces/SilverFlameAmulet.jpg)

Second Silver Flame Trinket Upgrade (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Necklaces/SilverFlamePendant.jpg)

Third Silver Flame Trinket Upgrade (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Necklaces/SilverFlameTalisman.jpg)



Parvo, I couldnt agree more.

[TheBroken_JPK]

Here is my issue;

I started in Nov '09. I've gladly bought from the DDO store. I think I've bought about a hundred dollars worth of points, plus I've been VIP for the entire time.

Recently, though, I've felt Turbine has taken advantage of my willingness to support their game through the cash shop. I now see items that can only be bought in the cash shop. The new "Extra strength" healing potions are an example. Why are these not available for plat? Its time for the potion vendors to see an upgrade, imo.

I see more innovation in the cash shop, than the game. I don't buy from the cash shop so Turbine can add more items for me to buy. I buy so that they can continue to improve this awesome game. If you add an item on the cash shop it should be available in game(hello bard hireling and extra strength healing pots).

For now, I've ceased buying points until I feel Turbine adds to the game as much as they add to the cash shop. There is no reason, besides wanting even more of the cash we are handing over for VIP and the extra points, to not include bard hirelings and extra strength potions. My 15 dollars a month, plus the occasional TP reloads isn't enough? Give me a break.

[Lissyl]

Lol someone obviously likes to down the elixirs then - if u think that buffing or healing a grp is a mana sponge then something is wrong in ur grp - buffing is part and parcel of a grp orientated casters role, much like helaing is for a cleric.. mostly :)
If however you are having to constantly over buff, repeat buff cos of deaths or over heal a grps then maybe question your useage or maybe even the toons being a little underpowered and wasting ur SP for you , in which case sometimes u need to be cruel to be kind and save ur resources.
I run many differnt healers and casters and always buff, and keep grps topped up but rarely do I run outta SP because of it. The casters that tend to sup the mem pots are those who unfortuantley like to watch their own kill counts and throw SP away needlessly when there is actually 5 or even 11 others that cud also help with taking out the trash mobs.

By having an endless stream of mem pots at ur disposal it takes away any need for SP management and in most cases any need for other players cos ur caster / healer is already a very powerful force in DDO, this just makes them even more so.

But at the end of the day if thats how u wanna play then thats ur business, we all have different playstyles and different demands from the game - personally I prefer challenge rather than walking thro a quest and falling asleep by the end of it all.

Oh don't get me wrong. I don't slurp down mana pots like there's no tomorrow, but I do like knowing I have them if I need them. It prevents me from having to be TOO picky about my groups. A good example: A raid leader (not group...a full raid) insists that EVERYONE has greater heroism the entire run. That is a ~disgusting~ amount of sp, and frankly is a bit uncalled for. I always pass it out to the rogue, for instance. He needs it. But when you're the ~only~ arcane caster in a raid (and I was -- not even a bard) and the leader wants Jump, constant Haste, GH for everyone, and Blur for everyone in an hour-long run...your sp aren't going to last. Sure, I can say 'Hey, you know this isn't really right'...and find a different group. Given the LFM's the last 2 weeks, I'd still be waiting. Or, I can go...yannow...I have an extra manapot from the store. I can deal with this, run the raid and get some xp and loot.

I'm sure its not as big a deal in proper groups with proper guilds. But I have neither of those. I have whatever shows up in LFM. It's not a 'challenge' for me to practice SP conservation in VoN, for instance, I've done it before with good groups. It becomes a matter of 'do I want to skip this raid on this char from now on (because of level), or do I want a shot at more loot and take a pot'.

IOW, I see where you're coming from. I went from hating the way sp conservation works to accepting it to becoming rather used to it -- my posts show that progression pretty clearly. :) But if your wish to have them ~removed~ carries through, then it would ~literally~ kill my ability to enjoy playtime with the game because I have to skip groups that otherwise I can run with. I don't have the time, inclination, or desire to be ~that~ picky. That's all I was really trying to say. :)

[TEcarson]

Not really. It drops out of Invaders, lvl 10 min, harbor quest. F2P at that.

Actually, Invaders is lvl 12 min, but still a very valid point. ;)

[youareincompetent]

OK, my last kooky and tinfoil hat opinion on microtransactions in general??? In 10 years they will be outlawed as an addictive behavior and a misleading business practice. The very premise of microtransactions is based on the idea that people don't like to spend in big chunks and when they do, they are more cautious about what they spend vs little bites here and there. When people are nickeled and dimed, they tend not to notice and will make poor choices that they would not do normally.
This is a nutty sentiment I realize, but is it far fetched to think a government would declare an activity too harmful to the population to allow it to exist? No, no government would never do that... :rolleyes:
Unless the gaming industry starts employing mega lobbyists and major bankrolls to politicians.
I started playing w/ f2p. My friends from pen & paper D&D and I decided to adventure in DDO for some additional fun. At first it was great. I played a ton. My toon for our weekly group was falling behind my other 3 slots. Then I found myself in the peculiar position of having paid for something, but having no access to it. Now, that same weekly toon is my highest level one. I only log on when my RL friends prompt me. I feel like I've been had, and microtransactions are the reason.

You are buying into a private currency, essentially. There is no way to get your money back out, and Turbine's TOS forbids selling your account, so the gist seems more like "HAHAHA, we have your money. What are you going to do about it?" If I were to create a modern day simulation of the company store, Turbin Points would be it.

So, my first, and probably only, post is to say that eventually Congress or some Government agency will wake up to the travesty that is microtransactions, and I will be able to get the remainder of my money back. It might take 5 or 10 years, but if Turbine is still around, I will be there with my hand out.

[Missing_Minds]

Actually, Invaders is lvl 12 min, but still a very valid point. ;)

Incorrect. Quest may be a lvl 12, but you have to be min lvl 10 to enter it. I just did so.

[Aggro_King]

Ice Skates :mad:

[Sarr]

Ahhh, but you're wrong. We're working on that actually... :)

Good thread.
Yeah! Count me in as another one, who thinks that you promised we'll be able to grind in game any item that's crucial for the game. Astral Diamonds shouldn't be DDO Store-only, according not only to many players, but what you promised us Turbine ;).
But don't get me wrong - I understand WB may force you to do such things. The problem is, they may not know that it's your way that gives them profits, not theirs. It's your hard work and working with us, players, which gave you so much knowledge to literally do a "miracle" with DDO. That wasn't luck, that was your wisdom.

So believe in yourselves, Turbine. You always can find better ways to monetize, the ways that will make you more and more respected among players. Any other way can be a road to disaster. Please, don't flip from the road to being number 1 MMO developer - only players can make it happen for you :).
And they will, if you'll continue to listen, make your games better and treat us - the players - like partners. Of that I'm really sure, you've proven it many times!