LF Ninja Assassin build

[Shadelocke]

Hey there,

I am hoping somebody could give a great 32 pnt build for 12monk/7rogue/1fighter elf focusing on longswords. Gotta have UMD/Disarm/Lock, and do decent damage.

[Consumer]

As you've already decided the build you want put it into the character planner. Post your build and we can change what needs to be changed. That way you actually learn something about building toons.

[jmonty]

i would start with


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 1 Lawful Good Elf Male
(1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 28
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 0
Fortitude: 2
Reflex: 5
Will: -1

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 1)
Strength 17 17
Dexterity 16 16
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 11 11
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 1)
Balance 5 5
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device 4 4
Haggle -1 -1
Heal -1 -1
Hide 7 7
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 6 6
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 7 7
Open Lock 7 7
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 0
Search 4 6
Spot 1 3
Swim 3 3
Tumble 4 4
Use Magic Device 3 3

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting



have at least a +1 dex and int tome for the twf feats and put level ups into str.

i'll help more in a while if i have more time and you still need some assistance. :)

[Shadelocke]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Shadowfathom
Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(1 Fighter \ 12 Monk \ 7 Rogue)
Hit Points: 280
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 18
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 16 20
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 14 16
Wisdom 8 12
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 7 10
Bluff -1 2
Concentration 4 26
Diplomacy -1 3
Disable Device 6 26
Haggle -1 0
Heal -1 1
Hide 7 24
Intimidate -1 0
Jump 7 12
Listen -1 3
Move Silently 7 13
Open Lock 7 28
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 3
Search 6 28
Spot 2 6
Swim 3 6
Tumble 4 8
Use Magic Device 3 26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Whirling Steel Strike


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Way of the Elegant Crane I
Enhancement: Way of the Elegant Crane II
Enhancement: Way of the Elegant Crane III
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
Enhancement: Monk Jump I
Enhancement: Monk Jump II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
Enhancement: Monk Tumble I
Enhancement: Monk Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

[Shadelocke]

That is what I got so far any feedback would be nice, I planned on using stocked up ddo points for the tome.

[unbongwah]

Off-hand, I think this build will be suboptimal:

Why spend two feats to use longswords when Ninja Spies can use short swords instead? You can go drow instead of elf if you want the extra dmg enhs. Slightly less DPS, but as a ninja assassin you'll be relying mostly on SAs for DPS anyway; and those feats are better spent elsewhere, IMHO.

With that many monk levels, you'd almost certainly be better off sticking with handwraps; unless they've changed it, Touch of Death only works with handwraps. As it's a major source of dark monk DPS, IMHO it doesn't make much sense to take dark monk 9+ and not plan to use ToD.

I think rogue 13 / monk 7 using short swords is a better combo. In fact I'm trying to come up with a build I like for that.

[Shadelocke]

Yeah I figured I couldn't use ToD anyways. However, I really wanna play with longswords, I haven't had a toon yet that uses em.

[Shadelocke]

I created a couple of veteran toons to play around with the idea. I am fine with dropping longswords and using wraps. Think I am gonna try work on a dex based version as I prefer wind stance with the sneak attack damage over sun stance.

[Calebro]

I created a couple of veteran toons to play around with the idea. I am fine with dropping longswords and using wraps. Think I am gonna try work on a dex based version as I prefer wind stance with the sneak attack damage over sun stance.

If you're thinking of dropping longswords and focusing on SA, have you considered a rogue 13 / monk 7 split? Ninja Spy I and Assassin II totals for 10d6 SA dice. Basically all the SA of a pure non-PrE rogue, but with all the goodies that 7 levels of monk gives.
Wraps until around the Vale or so, when a banish/para short sword combo works wonders.
Mine is quickly becoming one of my favorite toons.

[Shadelocke]

I was considering that, how would a hafling weapon finess build with 13 rogue 7 monk fan out?

[Calebro]

I was considering that, how would a hafling weapon finess build with 13 rogue 7 monk fan out?

Most of your AP gets spent on filling requirements (both for two PrEs, and for basic halfling rogue SA lines), but it works well.
I'll find my build here and post it for you.


Edit:
As I said, there really isn't much room to work with different AP choices on a build like this. The starting stats can be changed as you like, but most of the AP will probably remain the same for the most part I'd imagine.

Not geared very well just yet (in the process of Shroud flagging), mine sits at 16 right now with 300 HP in Wind Stance 2, standing unbuffed AC of 45 (self buffed into the 50's), my lowest save is a 20.
Once this guy actually gets some decent gear he's going to be absolutely sick.... I'm having a blast running him.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral (or Good if you choose) Halfling Male
(7 Monk / 13 Rogue)
Hit Points: 283
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 14/14/19/24
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 23
Will: 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats With +6 Gear
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (before crafting)
Strength 14 16 22
Dexterity 16 28 34 (32 with Spectral Gloves enhancement line, see below)
Constitution 14 16 22
Intelligence 12 14 20
Wisdom 14 18 24
Charisma 8 10 16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 7 32
Bluff -1 6
Concentration 2 27
Diplomacy -1 0
Disable Device 5 25
Haggle -1 0
Heal 2 4
Hide 6 27
Intimidate -1 0
Jump 6 12
Listen 2 6
Move Silently 7 30
Open Lock 7 24
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 5 25
Spot 6 27
Swim 2 3
Tumble 4 12
Use Magic Device 3 23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness

Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse

Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness

Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Search (+4)

Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense (to be swapped for Shadow Blade if it's ever introduced)
------OR Skill Focus: UMD

Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skilll: Move Silently (+1)

Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Spot (+3)

Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack

Level 10 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)

Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Spot (+3)

Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons

Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)

Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)

Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)

Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike

Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness (or a different Feat to taste)

Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion

Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Halflinng Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
Enhancement: Monk Jump II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
Enhancement: Monk Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II

OR, with Spectral Gloves (preferred):

Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
Enhancement: Monk Jump II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
Enhancement: Monk Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II



The only tome required is the +2 Int @7, to keep the skill progression on track. But if you take this as a guide for your toon's idea, I highly recommend that you get every one of the tomes eventually. Every single stat on this guy is important in one way or another.

[Shadelocke]

I like that design, I'll have to try it out.

[Calebro]

If you have any questions, just let me know.

I will warn you that in the first 10 levels, your rogue skills start to slip and them max out again every few levels. This means that having level appropriate gear will be absolutely essential if you need to play trap monkey. You may also want to invest in Skill Boost for those times, and then spec out of it later on.
If that isn't something you're willing to deal with, you can adjust the skills appropriately.

I just did it that way because he gets the most out of it by only raising class skills.

[Shadelocke]

All I gotta say is WOW, thank you so much for this build. I don't think I will touch any other toon till this one is true rencarnated to a 36 pnt version.

[Calebro]

All I gotta say is WOW, thank you so much for this build. I don't think I will touch any other toon till this one is true rencarnated to a 36 pnt version.

I told you it was fun.... :D

[DethTrip]

Do this instead, you will thank me later.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=264340

[Calebro]

Do this instead, you will thank me later.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=264340

Somehow I don't think he will.
He asked for a "12monk/7rogue/1fighter elf focusing on longswords", then later changed the idea to a "dex based version as I prefer wind stance with the sneak attack damage over sun stance" which indicated that he'd still like to keep the rogue levels.
You tell him to build a pure strength based monk.... That isn't what he asked for at all. I'm not saying it's a bad build, but it isn't what he asked for.

[QuantumFX]

This sums up my feelings on the build: LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLJFzzQCWBQ)

[Shadelocke]

Well, I rerolled the toon again. Not because I don't enjoy it but because my little brother wanted to roll one too after watching me play it lol. It is even more intersting duoing instances with this build, as it is really fun to trade back and forth the super fast sneak attacks.

[unbongwah]

Nice build, Calebro. Although I would squeeze in Combat Expertise somewhere, since it looks like you're trying for a high-AC build and you have the INT for it after +2 tome. Think I would reverse Dodge & Power Attack: you don't really need Dodge until monk 6 (Ninja Spy pre-req); whereas the extra DPS from PA is welcome, especially against low-lvl high-Fort enemies (i.e., undead).

[Calebro]

Nice build, Calebro. Although I would squeeze in Combat Expertise somewhere, since it looks like you're trying for a high-AC build and you have the INT for it after +2 tome. Think I would reverse Dodge & Power Attack: you don't really need Dodge until monk 6 (Ninja Spy pre-req); whereas the extra DPS from PA is welcome, especially against low-lvl high-Fort enemies (i.e., undead).

As I just received a PM about the build (with a link that brought me here), and had never noticed your suggestion Unb:
I feel that Combat Expertise is overkill.

I've had it on other toons before, and unless I was playing "tank" I never turned it on. Power Attack is the better option in almost every single situation. You won't be doing much "tanking" with this guy, so PA it is.

As to the AC portion of that: His AC is already good. The stacking blur/displace & shadow fade with a good AC means that he doesn't take much damage as it is, so losing 5 damage on every strike to take slightly less damage than the little he already takes seems silly.
Like I said, overkill.

As to PA vs Dodge early on: Early on a moderate to-hit isn't enough to leave PA on, and if it isn't on, then why not have a +1 AC instead?

[kudolink]

Extremely fun but extremely squishy also.

[Galdor123]

Very interesting build (the 13/7 rogue/monk)! I'm a relatively new player and have a lvl 14 light monk which I'm having quite some fun with. But I also like the idea of a ninja spy/assassin.

Couple Questions:

1) Why do you take the 7th monk level? The only thing a level 7 monk gets are Wholeness of body and (possibly) Improved Recovery II (which you are not taking anyway it seems), no save increase, no run speed increase, no AC bonus increase. Maybe I'm missing something, but it does not seem very worthwile to me.
Of course, the 14th rogue level does not seem worthwile, either, so maybe a third class? Was thinking of maybe Fighter for the feat and HP enhancement.

3) Do you use mainly fists or shortswords? With only a few monk levels I guess the shortswords are quite viable.

2) Would ninja spy II/ assassin I also be a good idea? Something like monk12/rogue7/something(fighter?)1. You would gain more monk goodies (higher fist damage, AC bonus, saves, speed bonus, poison immunity, abundant step), a bit more HP because of d8, the next stance, free imp crit (shortsword) feat.
You would lose 2d6 sneak attack, possibly more because you cant take all the rogue sneak attack enhancements (though with rogue 7 you could still take the second highest sneat attack training/accuracy. And the higher BAB of Monk while using centering weapons would probably compensate for one or two ranks in sneak attack accuracy, at least). You would also lose the rogue special feats, so no crippling strike/opportunist or whatever one would take there (improved evasion you get with monk). The main thing is probably the skill points, with so few rogue levels you would probably struggle to keep trap skills + UMD + open lock + concentration + spot etc. maxed... though I would think that it is possible.

Anyway, I will consider rolling a monk/rogue sometime!

[Calebro]

Very interesting build (the 13/7 rogue/monk)! I'm a relatively new player and have a lvl 14 light monk which I'm having quite some fun with. But I also like the idea of a ninja spy/assassin.

Couple Questions:

1) Why do you take the 7th monk level? The only thing a level 7 monk gets are Wholeness of body and (possibly) Improved Recovery II (which you are not taking anyway it seems), no save increase, no run speed increase, no AC bonus increase. Maybe I'm missing something, but it does not seem very worthwile to me.
Of course, the 14th rogue level does not seem worthwile, either, so maybe a third class? Was thinking of maybe Fighter for the feat and HP enhancement.

3) Do you use mainly fists or shortswords? With only a few monk levels I guess the shortswords are quite viable.

2) Would ninja spy II/ assassin I also be a good idea? Something like monk12/rogue7/something(fighter?)1. You would gain more monk goodies (higher fist damage, AC bonus, saves, speed bonus, poison immunity, abundant step), a bit more HP because of d8, the next stance, free imp crit (shortsword) feat.
You would lose 2d6 sneak attack, possibly more because you cant take all the rogue sneak attack enhancements (though with rogue 7 you could still take the second highest sneat attack training/accuracy. And the higher BAB of Monk while using centering weapons would probably compensate for one or two ranks in sneak attack accuracy, at least). You would also lose the rogue special feats, so no crippling strike/opportunist or whatever one would take there (improved evasion you get with monk). The main thing is probably the skill points, with so few rogue levels you would probably struggle to keep trap skills + UMD + open lock + concentration + spot etc. maxed... though I would think that it is possible.

Anyway, I will consider rolling a monk/rogue sometime!

1] WoB is much more useful to me than anything else a single level of another class would give. Your mileage may vary. But for me, grabbing WoB as early as 10 saves a ton of resources. I mainly run BYOH groups until level 16 or so, and WoB is a huge help in this regard. I still use it at cap.

3] ...because they're out of order ;) .... That varies depending on the situation. Wraps mostly, but having a para/banish combo for the vale while staying centered is also a great help.
Once you craft a Rad2 SS you'll be using SSs more than wraps. Sure, a rapier would give more crits for the blinding, but they don't allow you to stay centered.

2] That would be a completely different build. It looks similar in concept, but it would actually be much different. IMHO, if you're going more then 7 levels of monk you should stay pure.
If you go to 9 for ToD, then why not 12? If you go to 12, then why not 16-18 for better fists and a T3 PrE when it's released? If you're going 16-18, then why not pure?
7 is the cut off for me. Some people may disagree, but that's my line of thought on it.

[Hurak]

My Ninja 2/Assassin 1 build since U5

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=263735

A lot of fun to play though the DC for stuns (about 32-33) is to low for anything except trash. HP around the 450 mark pending stance is ok, well supported though with healing marks and a high UMD.