Better end rewards for adventure packs.

[TekkenDevil]

Ok so why are some adventure packs run regularly in public groups and many others almost completely neglected?

Because they're full-on, completely, absolutely worthless.

Aside from the obvious XP points:
-Gianthold is run because it's full of wonderful end rewards, some of which you might actually keep.
-Delera's is run mainly for the Voice of Master.
-Tangleroot is also run for having some useful end rewards, although it's mainly because of XP.
-Sands is run for farming many rare items and goodish end rewards.
-Vale has the crafting.....

That's all nice and good, but meanwhile, other quests are completely forgotten.
Now I love running quests without the promise of goods, but in the general public groups' view:
-Sharn Syndicate is too long and offers basically nothing.
-Catacombs are like a lengthened waterworks, with low XP and no good end rewards.
-Shan-To-Kor, Threnal and Sorrowdusk are just too long for the low quality end rewards.
-The end rewards in Three Barrel Cove are things you'd probably receive from a Hobo holding a yard sale.
-Most of Necropolis is just simply not worth it.


Now, for the sake of justifying me having spent money on all your adventure packs, Turbine, my lovely dear corporate, quality assurance challenged friends, I request that you sit down for 5 hours and brainstorm new items to enhance the end rewards for these rather lonely quests.

Not everything has to have a Voice of the Master or a crafting device, but seriously, make some goddamn items that makes it worth for EVERYONE to consider running the quest once in their toon's lifetime.

Or if you're lazy, then up the XP gain.


Just DO SOMETHING!

(Inb4 hurpdee durpdee doo, guilding is the way to goo)

[Goldeneye]

You are right:


Catacombs
Three Barrel Cove
Low level Necro


Are almost never run. The primary reasons are:

not enough xp
no loot worth getting.


If the dev's added something worthwhile in these packs, people might actually run them

[Angelus_dead]

The problem there is the lacking named loot, which does not necessarily have to be provided as end rewards.

Here's a thread on the topic of insufficient named loot in adventure packs:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2908959#post2908959

[LexxCoool]

There you went and did it gave them the proof that they need to make them EPIC oh boy our next new mod more grindy quests wooters.

By the way I agree

[AZgreentea]

I have to disagree a little.

Sharn Syndicate is fast if you know what you are doing. Nicked weps are useful to people who do not have a high lvl alt to twink them.

Catacombs has a fun story. Going back to no high lvl alts, its a decent source of lowbie gear for casters (though quickly outleveled). It is one of the first places you can get ghost touched weps, and things like Drydens Mace are some of the first undead bane weps you can get a hold of.

STK gives you access to your first perm FF item. That is worth the effort there for most people.

3BC gives you Free Agent favor, useful for lvl 4+ Rogues (and what a coincidence, that is the start of the lvl range for 3BC).

Low lvl Necro gives you Silver Flame favor, which always helps. Its easier for people like me to upgrade the Trinket as you go than it is to grind the one quest.... (unless you like grinds)

I havent run Threnal or all of Sorrowdusk, so I will reserve commentary on those.

[Sinni]

That's all nice and good, but meanwhile, other quests are completely forgotten.
Now I love running quests without the promise of goods, but in the general public groups' view:
-Sharn Syndicate is too long and offers basically nothing.
-Catacombs are like a lengthened waterworks, with low XP and no good end rewards.
-Shan-To-Kor, Threnal and Sorrowdusk are just too long for the low quality end rewards.
-The end rewards in Three Barrel Cove are things you'd probably receive from a Hobo holding a yard sale.
-Most of Necropolis is just simply not worth it.

Sharn Syndicate: The nicked weapons you get are great for that level if you are not twinked from a high level character

Catacombs: agree. Main reasons are the eternal mini cure wand and the silver flame fav

Shan-To-Kor: Has the Ring of Feathers (min level 2 permanent featherfall ring) in the end chest and i also like the trapblast goggles from the end reward (+4 reflex save)

Three Barrel Cove: Sucks reward wise, tough i like the quest

Necorpolis: The Crypts in Necro 1 and 2 have amazing XP for their level. Necro 1 through 3 give access to the silver flame necklace (necro 3 would be enough, but you have to wait until around lvl 9 or 10 to be an asset in there) which is THE protection against beholders in DDO. Necropolis 4 (aka Orchard) has some amazing rewards. The Skiver and Deathnip from Litany of the Dead, Minos Legens from the orchard itself, Litany of the Dead and some other things from the abbot raid

[SINIBYTE]

THE protection against beholders in DDO.

Beholder Optic Nerves. :)

[Missing_Minds]

What has been released SINCE ddo went to the new model....

Update 0: Shavarath and Sharn Syndiacte. End game and lowbie stuff. Both having very useful gear.
Update 1: The Path of Inspiration: the inspired quarter stuff... nice stuff in that one.
Update 2: Dreaming Dark. Unlocks those IQ stuff, as well as Dreamspitter and Ioun Stones now. Nice stuff.
Update 3: no quests, but did have reincarnation finally.
Update 4: Denith Sentinals.... yeap, got some good stuff.
Update 5: House P Carnival.... Yeap, has stuff, some good some soo soo.

Free quests?... Mired in Kobolds, Acid Wit, Delerium, and some Marlith quest in the Inspired Quarters.... Yeah, nothing there. Unless you count the chance for black scales out of Mired from Mama.

I'd say they ARE doing what you want already. Imagine that.

[KillEveryone]

Ok so why are some adventure packs run regularly in public groups and many others almost completely neglected?

Because they're full-on, completely, absolutely worthless.

Aside from the obvious XP points:
-Gianthold is run because it's full of wonderful end rewards, some of which you might actually keep.
-Delera's is run mainly for the Voice of Master. There are a few other rewards such as Golden Cartuche and Carnifex that come from here. Several static rewards are quite nice.
-Tangleroot is also run for having some useful end rewards, although it's mainly because of XP. Personally don't really care for this area. I only run for a couple pair of goggles. House P favor is nice though.
-Sands is run for farming many rare items and goodish end rewards.
-Vale has the crafting.....

That's all nice and good, but meanwhile, other quests are completely forgotten.
Now I love running quests without the promise of goods, but in the general public groups' view:
-Sharn Syndicate is too long and offers basically nothing. I like this chain. Each quest is short and fast and the Nicked weapons are quite nice for their level. I think they are BTA so you can pass them to an ault also. Good amount of Coin Lord favor here.
-Catacombs are like a lengthened waterworks, with low XP and no good end rewards. Don't care for this area either. Favor is about the only thing I really like. I think some monk handwraps drop from here but that could be Delera's that I'm thinking of.
-Shan-To-Kor, Threnal and Sorrowdusk are just too long for the low quality end rewards. STK has that permanent FF item if you don't have one and has nice Coin Lord favor also. Between STK and Sharn you should probably have enough favor for both backpack spots. Thernal has the Mantle of Worldshaper. Don't discount that item because it is a really nice cloak. A few other items come out of there that can be useful.
-The end rewards in Three Barrel Cove are things you'd probably receive from a Hobo holding a yard sale. I agree. I really like this area a lot but because the end rewards are vendor trash then people don't care to run this. Agent favor is nice though.
-Most of Necropolis is just simply not worth it. Shadow King has bucu XP and people do farm it for the XP. Silver Flame necklace is a really nice item to have. Minios from the Orchard tapestries is really nice. People also go for the Litany of the Dead. Abbot raid is here.


Now, for the sake of justifying me having spent money on all your adventure packs, Turbine, my lovely dear corporate, quality assurance challenged friends, I request that you sit down for 5 hours and brainstorm new items to enhance the end rewards for these rather lonely quests.

Not everything has to have a Voice of the Master or a crafting device, but seriously, make some goddamn items that makes it worth for EVERYONE to consider running the quest once in their toon's lifetime.

Or if you're lazy, then up the XP gain.


Just DO SOMETHING!

(Inb4 hurpdee durpdee doo, guilding is the way to goo)

Response is in Sky Blue.

[Angelus_dead]

Update 0: Shavarath and Sharn Syndiacte. End game and lowbie stuff. Both having very useful gear.
Shavarath: the majority of ring sets give sad bonuses. Problems with ardor/glaciation belts. Explained here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2669407).
Sharn: weapons are unbalanced with other named loot of that level (and 5 levels above).



Update 1: The Path of Inspiration: the inspired quarter stuff... nice stuff in that one.
Famously bad melee weapons (for non-monks). The Terror greatsword is especially sad. Explained here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=260840).


Update 2: Dreaming Dark. Unlocks those IQ stuff, as well as Dreamspitter and Ioun Stones now. Nice stuff.
You're welcome.


Update 4: Denith Sentinals.... yeap, got some good stuff.
The weapons there are really poor. Explained here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243571).


Update 5: House P Carnival.... Yeap, has stuff, some good some soo soo.
Items overpowered compared to similar/higher level quests.

[YakoSpiritFist]

3 Barrel Cove - Is probably the worst out of all of them which is a shame because the quests are pretty good. I've got nothing but garbage from that place.

Catacombs - Is fun for the first few times you run it, but the rewards are not that great either. The eternal rest handwraps are pretty nice for a low level monk since there isn't that many unique handwraps.

Necropolis 1 - Another fun quest chain with nothing to write home about. Good xp is probably the best reason to do this. Or for the adventure....*sniff*

Shan-To-Kor - Decent quest chain with little to be desired. You man get lucky and get a ring of feathers. Also the trapblast goggles are nice. However I've only seen a ring of feathers once out of the many many times i've run it. So usualy the rewards end up being vendor trash.

Sharn Syndicate - Yeah it's actualy a pretty short and sweet quest chain. If you're a first time character the nicked weapons are a plus. Not much here for people with plat or who have good luck with chest loot.

Sorrowdusk Isle - It's been awhile since I ran this quest, but I don't remember the end rewards being to terrible. If I get lucky enough to find a group to do this again i'll be able to form a better opinion.

[SilkofDrasnia]

just want to mention that in sorrowdusk isle u can get a mummified bat as an end reward which is rather nice!

[dunklezhan]

Sharn syndicate is awesome, what on earth are you talking about? Each quest is very quick, there's only five or six in the chain I think, you can run the lot in about 30 minutes. The end rewards are fantastic - as Angelus_dead said, they're unbalanced for level, which means overpowered.

Edit: also Sharn has good XP and loads of rep with Coin Lords just as you're starting to run out of bag space...

[shagath]

Catacombs drops one of the best low lvl caster robes.

Robe of Duality (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Lamannia/RobeofDuality.jpg) - (Robe) False Life, Arcane Augmentation I [ML:2, BtA]

[PNellesen]

I just started playing in June, and have no higher level characters to pass stuff down from, so my impressions of the ones I've managed to finish so far as a noob have been:

STK - I love the quests themselves, and somehow I lucked out and got the FF ring my 3rd run through.

Tangleroot - eh. Good House P favor, but so far I've gotten nothing to write home about (that sticks out in my mind).

Sharn Syndicate - Loved the quests, and my level 7 Ranger is STILL using the Nicked Greatsword in certain situations, and my level 7 Cleric still finds a use now and then for his nicked mace. I would recommend that pack to anybody starting out in the game.

Catacombs - I thought the quests were ok (got tired of running back to the Archbishop every time) but my Ranger pulled the Blade of Inquistion, which combined with his Favored Enemy: Undead means he still wipes the floor with pretty much any undead he meets (besides skellies). Obviously isn't going to be that way forever, but that is a GREAT weapon to have, especially against Wraiths/Shades.

Necropolis 1 - I finally finished that one, and I liked them as well, but I'm still sorting through all the loot I got ;) I may have made a mistake in taking the "2 additional turn undead" necklace instead of the other one, but I picked up enough scarabs to go make some more powder, so I can rectify that situation...

[Sinni]

Beholder Optic Nerves. :)

it has less charges, no deathblock and afaik also absorbs spells that aren't so dangerous. the most dangerous thing about beholders at higher levels (when you don't die from a desintegrate) are the negative levels and the instant kill. the neckie prevents 10 times negs and premanently from instant kills.
while the nerves only protect from 8 random bh attacks.

[Junts]

3 Barrel Cove - Is probably the worst out of all of them which is a shame because the quests are pretty good. I've got nothing but garbage from that place.

Catacombs - Is fun for the first few times you run it, but the rewards are not that great either. The eternal rest handwraps are pretty nice for a low level monk since there isn't that many unique handwraps.

Necropolis 1 - Another fun quest chain with nothing to write home about. Good xp is probably the best reason to do this. Or for the adventure....*sniff*

Shan-To-Kor - Decent quest chain with little to be desired. You man get lucky and get a ring of feathers. Also the trapblast goggles are nice. However I've only seen a ring of feathers once out of the many many times i've run it. So usualy the rewards end up being vendor trash.

Sharn Syndicate - Yeah it's actualy a pretty short and sweet quest chain. If you're a first time character the nicked weapons are a plus. Not much here for people with plat or who have good luck with chest loot.

Sorrowdusk Isle - It's been awhile since I ran this quest, but I don't remember the end rewards being to terrible. If I get lucky enough to find a group to do this again i'll be able to form a better opinion.

People seem blissfully unaware that necropolis 1 drops fantastic named items, both for twinking and in fact the best non-raid set of dps goggles in the entire game.

[donfilibuster]

Yeah, people that want to grind good loot stick to the best packs, however, to say the packs are good or bad on loot alone is missing the bigger picture.
Most of these packs are clearly for lower level than people usually do them, mostly because there's many quest options to run at lower levels.
Some people like to run everything and get the most gain from them but truth is there's more quests that you can do for leveling and will quickly make your loot and rewards obsolete.
This is never a bad thing and D&D has always been more about doing quests than about leveling.

Other things to consider:
Packs usually have one or two good items for any given class.
Bound to account is key at lower levels since it offers bonuses on the next tier.
Lower level gear is outleveled fast, which leads to think the loot is poor.
A lot of poor loot is intended for new players and thus not really poor.

As for pack reviews (from what i have):

Levels 1 to 4 - Catacombs and STK
- Catacombs is an starter pack perhaps more than STK, both are easy by the time you can buy them with the free points but i find catacombs to be the easier one, while for STK you may need a well built party.
Neither pack is really needed as you can outlevel them by doing the free quests, yet are enjoyable and short packs.
You can safely get only one of the two if in a tight budget. Both are good soloable chains.
The bound loot includes some +2 items that are not available in waterworks.
WW has +2 str, dex and con, the packs have int, and cha, and STK is also famous for its low lv ff boots and ring (both).

Levels 5 to 7: Tangleroot, Sharn, 3BC
- Sharn look to be the first to get but is really an extra just like catacombs.
The weapons from sharn mostly help new players that haven't a full arsenal to choose from yet.
The chain is very short and each part can be done in minutes, which is a fast way to clinch the last xp for a level up or rank.
- Tangleroot may go ignored since there's so many lv 5 packs but might be the easiest of the lot.
The pack appears regularily on the lists of recommended packs because some of the bound loot is actually useful.
It includes the next tier of stat items, with +3 str, dex and con gear.
- Three barrel cove, however, is entirely outleveled by the time you get there.
I have been there on passes and the place is quite enjoyable, but there's so few groups that most people don't get that pack.
Besides it is not cheaper in terms of ddo points but have more quests and a bigger area than tangleroot.
- The thing to consider is wether you can live without them, since you may find the extra xp and favor useful.
It is entirely possible to skip the f2p market quests entirely by doing pack quests alone.
That's not really recommended since the hard quests like proof vs poison makes you a better player.

Levels 6-10: Delera, Sentinels, Threnal, VoN
- Delera wins here big time because you can begin doing it quite early at lower levels once you know what you are doing.
Delera has some extra quests apart of the main chain, of various levels, but is also a very expensive pack.
The named loot is not only the voice of the master, there's plenty of useful lv 7 stuff and some +3 and +4 stat items.
People often run it once for the voice alone but it is quite worth to do many repeats for xp and loot.
- Sentinels has some poor loot and the named items are of lv 5, which is outleveled fast, and also wish the xp were higher.
It has however, a good chain and the option for epic, beside having groups for it due to the pack being fairly new.
- While delera and sentinels are rather useful at lower levels Threnal and VoN are more on the mid-level range.
Threnal is a multi part chain that is quite longer to finish than others, but it gives the mantle of the worldshaper.
It is a good pack for loot but at this point you may have outleveled it or will be running Tempest Spine 24/7.
At this point you also have run out of ddo points and you can do better by saving for delera or sands which are costly.
- VoN is also an extra pack that you can cut on tight budget, however it is a very good source of kundarak favor for extra bank slots.
The chain ends with the raid which is where the named loot drops. It is also an investment for epic.

Mid-level: Sorrowdusk, Restless Islands, Sands
- Having spent on deleras i was myself on a tight budget so went with sands instead.
I thus skipped sorrowdusk and restless islands yet can see there's some good loot in restless and its raid.
Sands, however, is a popular pack with very good named loot and the first of the bigger explorer areas.
From this point onwards you also have less options to choose than at lower levels so you just get the packs you need without so much desicion making.

[TekkenDevil]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's recap.
I don't think ANY single quest in the game is worthless. Which is why I want to see more public grouping for them.

You know, guys, you can justify the quests all you want, and I mean 'I' myself love to run them all by default, but in the end, public grouping shows only what I described in my opening topic.

If you think pack x is not completely worthless, good for you, I don't think it is either, but I still can't find any public groups to run them with.

This is why I suggest there to be more loot and/or XP gain worked into quest packs that are generally ignored.



And in response to Missing Minds: -What the heck are you talking about? I think it's safe to say you missed my point completely.

[Missing_Minds]

And in response to Missing Minds: -What the heck are you talking about? I think it's safe to say you missed my point completely.

Probably because...


Ok so why are some adventure packs run regularly in public groups and many others almost completely neglected?

Because they're full-on, completely, absolutely worthless.

Which within your ranting made it seem that you wanted new content to be worth something. The fact you wanted to run everything was not made clear unto your return back into this thread.

Follow that up with..

Now, for the sake of justifying me having spent money on all your adventure packs, Turbine...

How did you think people were going to take your post? Your second post was much more clear than the first.

[TekkenDevil]

Ok so why are some adventure packs run regularly in public groups and many others almost completely neglected?


Now I love running quests without the promise of goods, but in the general public groups' view:


...that makes it worth for EVERYONE to consider running the quest once in their toon's lifetime.

This is the gist of my second post summed up in the first one.

I'm not here to write essays but I thought I put it pretty simply at the time.

[Angelus_dead]

People seem blissfully unaware that necropolis 1 drops fantastic named items, both for twinking and in fact the best non-raid set of dps goggles in the entire game.
The Necropolis I items are a badly flawed game design though, due to multiple factors. The biggest one is just the reflagging, which means not only that inexpert players (who don't have the resources to use a separate opener) are excluded from farming that chest effectively, but also indicates that the good drop chances are concentrated in too small an area.

Although Bloody Crypt can be fine at-level XP, the drop rate is so low that you're more likely to get some of those goggles by highbie sorcs speed-burning it.

I have suggested that they fix Necro 1 looting in three ways:
1. Only need to flag for the climax quest once, then you can repeat any of them at anytime (like Sentinels and Sharn)
2. Drop rates increased, especially for the less-good items. Items possibly changed into BOA to compensate.
3. The four flagging quests gain drops for some of the Bloody Crypt named items in, much like how Shavarath belts/necks drop both in dungeons and the climax raid.

Those changes could also be usefully applied to Necropolis 2.