Change greensteel ml to 16

[lugoman]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

[sirgog]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

TRs will be just as overpowered and will make quests just as boring if they use +4 Greater Banes instead of Mineral 2 weapons.

[Thriand]

I suppose you haven't gotten the pleasure of seeing the people with the old school min level 8 versions then.....

[lugoman]

it's ppl like the OP that are the cause of the ruin of every mmo to date that has failed.

a) they come on forums and whine
b) devs read forums and change something
c) the majority (you know the people that play the game without complaints and don't read/post on forums) don't like new changes and slowly but surely quit
d) game loses money, does server merges etc... and dies

to the OP, you should really do some self-reflecting. if what someone else can do effects your gameplay experience in any way shape or forum, then you really have serious mental issues in real life and should see a doctor. i'm not trying to flame you as i seriously believe this. cause nothing someone else does in game that is not related to pvp cannot truly effect you as you are not forced to group with them, to suggest to the devs to change something so others get hurt but you are not effected is just wrong and should be a crime.

/endrant

Lol, yes how on earth can it effect me when I join a tempest spine raid and a guy runs ahead with dual lit ii's killing everything before I even get there? This is how the game should be played? Turbine should just add a /follow command and I can go watch tv while my toon completes quest.

I suppose you are used to being carried through quests for loot and xp. I find it fun to contribute and have a little challenge when I play.



Hold on and let me do some self reflecting .......

Ommmmmmmmmm..................Ommmmmmmmmmm......... .....Ommmmmmmm

Ok, I was right.

[Big_Russ]

If you are not happy with your kill count, practice. It is not all in the loot. The majority of it is in knowing the quests.

I went from fighter to monk on my TR. I outkilled everybody levelling up to about 16 with NO monk loot from my past life.

[BoBoDaClown]

to the OP, you should really do some self-reflecting. if what someone else can do effects your gameplay experience in any way shape or forum, then you really have serious mental issues in real life and should see a doctor. i'm not trying to flame you as i seriously believe this. cause nothing someone else does in game that is not related to pvp cannot truly effect you as you are not forced to group with them, to suggest to the devs to change something so others get hurt but you are not effected is just wrong and should be a crime.

/endrant

Way over the top. All he gave was his OPINION...

[Elbriand]

You don't group with people who like to run ahead instead of play as a team and your problem is solved. There are a lot of people that way, you just don't often meet them in a pug as they only play with other good players.

[Lithic]

TR LFMs are almost always "zerging, in progress, know your way, bring your own heals" or something of the sort. If you are joining such a LFM, you should know what you are getting into.

If you absolutely don't want to group with overpowered characters, make your own LFMs that say so. A simple "Taking it slow", or "No zerging" is likely to keep 99% of TR characters away. Nice thing about TRs is they have little wings. If you see wings, hit the "kick" button. Problem solved.

[stormarcher]

To the OP.

You should Tr your capped toon (if you even have one)

see how much xp grind is needed.

then complain to me when you finally hit level 12 and can pull out greensteel.

especially so for x2 or more Tr's

[Seamonkeysix]

Lol, yes how on earth can it effect me when I join a tempest spine raid and a guy runs ahead with dual lit ii's killing everything before I even get there? This is how the game should be played? Turbine should just add a /follow command and I can go watch tv while my toon completes quest.

I suppose you are used to being carried through quests for loot and xp. I find it fun to contribute and have a little challenge when I play.



Hold on and let me do some self reflecting .......

Ommmmmmmmmm..................Ommmmmmmmmmm......... .....Ommmmmmmm

Ok, I was right.

Last time I ran that on my 32 point barb, I was top killer by far and I was swinging Carnifex. A good deal of the people running around on TRs would be running ahead and killing things way before other players got there, with or without GS weapons.

Like the other posters said, in the long run, Min IIs or Lit IIs, really won't be significantly different from greater bane weapons with icy burst from games, blah blah blah.

In the end, people who have played the game more will have more gear and more experience. Someday you'll be that dude. Enjoy the ride. ;)

[biggin]

/not signed

While it may seem overpowered to you, remember that same person has to run the same quests as you but an exponentially number of times more to level. Just try to avoid the swirlies when you see them, it obviously doesn't fit your playstyle.

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

Way over the top. All he gave was his OPINION...

Oh no, the sarcred word opinion has been capitalized! Are you one of those who think just because it's labeled opinion it doesn't matter what it is? All are equally valid? The fact that it's a spiteful, childish one doesn't matter? That it's about taking away other people's enjoyment of the game, and pulling their accomplishments out of their hands is ok?

Good grief.

[Valakai]

I remember at times feeling something similar in a group of wizards and sorcs who PKd and FoD everything in sight. You were lucky to land a blow or two before the instakills got the mob. The only times where I felt useful were boss fights because they were immune.

But seriously. When you can get a +5 holy, pure good, frost burst weapon you are not all that much behind greensteel....

Of course when you have one or two characters at level 20 supplying your lower level toon it is going to be miles ahead of people with no easy access to similar equipment. This is true of almost every other MMO out there.

[Hokiewa]

/yawn....

It will never happen.

/drama fail

[maddmatt70]

The OP is correct. GS was never meant to be used at level 12 despite its current ml. It should be pushed back, but doubt it will because Turbine is lazy when it comes to gear.

[mystafyi]

Ummmm what about mah min level 2 +1 icy burst/keen/rightous weapons that the risian games allowed to be made???? I think your argument is a moot issue with those seriously overpower weapons.

Or how about folks using Blade barrier cookies in korthos ;) (festivault rewards)

[Lithic]

The OP is correct. GS was never meant to be used at level 12 despite its current ml. It should be pushed back, but doubt it will because Turbine is lazy when it comes to gear.

No the reason it wont be pushed back is that pushing back the min lvl will ONLY hurt TRs. No first generation character will ever get a tier 3 item before they hit 16 (the desired min lvl of the OP), unless they set out to do it on purpose by setting up groups that will pass them the shards, and purposely not leveling to 16 before they get their greensteel.

[BoBoDaClown]

Oh no, the sarcred word opinion has been capitalized! Are you one of those who think just because it's labeled opinion it doesn't matter what it is? All are equally valid? The fact that it's a spiteful, childish one doesn't matter? That it's about taking away other people's enjoyment of the game, and pulling their accomplishments out of their hands is ok?

Good grief.

Hardly. I think that saying he has some kind of mental issues because he thinks part of the game is unbalanced is over the top...

Especially when he says this: "if what someone else can do effects your gameplay experience in any way shape or forum".

That's kind of the point of a mmorpg - that people affect what you do.

[GeneralDiomedes]

TRs need a party?? :eek:

[lugoman]

TR LFMs are almost always "zerging, in progress, know your way, bring your own heals" or something of the sort. If you are joining such a LFM, you should know what you are getting into.

If you absolutely don't want to group with overpowered characters, make your own LFMs that say so. A simple "Taking it slow", or "No zerging" is likely to keep 99% of TR characters away. Nice thing about TRs is they have little wings. If you see wings, hit the "kick" button. Problem solved.

I dont mind zerging and dont blame the tr's for using the best equipment they can. I blame Turbine for unbalancing the mid level content.

I just dont see the fun in it, like playing butchers path on my 20 sorc, but to each his own.

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

It should be pushed back, but doubt it will because Turbine is lazy when it comes to gear.

What a weird thing to say. As if them being lazy and not it being a stupid idea is the reason they will ignore the suggestion. :rolleyes:

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

That's kind of the point of a mmorpg - that people affect what you do.

No. If you choose not to group with the people you don't want to group with, then they have no effect on your gameplay. It really is that simple.

Or are you going to pull out the absurd idea that everyone should be forced to group with you when you want them to and play the way you want them to play? I guess you do. Since the only way you can believe what I quoted is if you think the game is also all about you affecting how other people play.

[Quikster]

Lol, yes how on earth can it effect me when I join a tempest spine raid and a guy runs ahead with dual lit ii's killing everything before I even get there? This is how the game should be played? Turbine should just add a /follow command and I can go watch tv while my toon completes quest.

I suppose you are used to being carried through quests for loot and xp. I find it fun to contribute and have a little challenge when I play.



Hold on and let me do some self reflecting .......

Ommmmmmmmmm..................Ommmmmmmmmmm......... .....Ommmmmmmm

Ok, I was right.


Which is why my bard, leads melee kill count in many, many shrouds. Gasp, with no greensteel. Sometimes it aint the tool, but how you use it. Knowing whats around every corner is much more likely than his weapons were that much better than yours.

[articwarrior]

to the OP, you should really do some self-reflecting. if what someone else can do effects your gameplay experience in any way shape or forum, then you really have serious mental issues in real life and should see a doctor. i'm not trying to flame you as i seriously believe this. cause nothing someone else does in game that is not related to pvp cannot truly effect you as you are not forced to group with them, to suggest to the devs to change something so others get hurt but you are not effected is just wrong and should be a crime.

/endrant

yes, very much so, also if you dont like gs you (the OP) should look at upgraded ioun stones too ;)


Way over the top. All he gave was his OPINION...

no it wasnt

[BoBoDaClown]

No. If you choose not to group with the people you don't want to group with, then they have no effect on your gameplay. It really is that simple.



That doesn't make sense - maybe I'm playing with semantics here, but everybody you group with, positive or negative, has an effect on your game play.

Note, that I wasn't saying I agree with the OP (well equipped TRs are going to be pulling ahead no matter what), but simply stating I thought the responses personal tone (i.e. there is something wrong with your head) was over the top.

[theb]

Oh no, the sarcred word opinion has been capitalized! Are you one of those who think just because it's labeled opinion it doesn't matter what it is? All are equally valid? The fact that it's a spiteful, childish one doesn't matter? That it's about taking away other people's enjoyment of the game, and pulling their accomplishments out of their hands is ok?

Good grief.

How can you say such a thing? It's quite mean of you to ruin OP's life this way.

It's only going to get you more rep which will set OP even further behind than he is already! You're ruining his enjoyment of the forums with your massive green bar! How can everyone be equal when you insist on having comments that are so much more reasonable than others'?

[herzkos]

I agree with the OP.
IMO, greensteel is grossly overpowered at level 12.
I understand the grind is long on TR's but frankly having GS at
12 isn't really going to speed up the levelling process all that much.
Unless you're counting up minutes and multiplying by quests and levels.
If that's the case, good luck with your work away from work(i hope) that you don't
get paid for.

[Ybbald]

I guess you want vorpal weapons removed too since someone can kill all the mobs with a couple lucky rolls before you get to do anything

if it really bothers you, solo with a hireling

making greensteel and TR are both a ton of work and the people who do it should reap the rewards

[Merlocke]

Change greensteel ml to 16 .

No, TR's should be allowed to reap the benefits of thier hard earned larges. Goodbye.

[thisgamesull]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

If you arent an EU player I would assume ur 1 of the newbie crybabies that want everything over night,and if you cant have it then people that worked long and hard shouldn't either I have been moderately effected by every nerf in this game and Im not gonna be thrilled to go through another
using weapons such as this is 1 of the few reasons why I would even consider TRing

[Desteria]

16 is way to high the quets you get them from is not that high and we were runnign it before we were 16, I have had none TR characters that were useing dule min2's at level 13, becuase I farmed larges with other chars and started running shroud with them as soon as they could get any xp form it, (level 16 cap), and ran it with ppl that did not need shards so i got them all in 2 runs.

NOW the old ML8 ones there would be an issue, if they still came out at that level, i have some my self but it;s like my casters cha dagger and stuff unfortunutly not any of the weapons on chars i plan to tr any time soon.

I could MABY see pushign them to 14 MABY but 16 is to high, the raid is ment for lelve 12-16 peopel to run that when the content came out, yes the gear form there because of customization is still some of the best in the game, but it's in the right level range.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Part of the fun of TR is that you are uber twinked and that helps make up for the nasty XP curve. If they change GS's ML, it would reduce the fun of TRing and it would probably be the last straw that ended my time with DDO. I don't find epic at all interesting, TRing is the only next step for L20 chars for me, and that would help kill the game.

[Bloodhaven]

My counter proposal:

Add all your pass lives together and add it to your char level when it comes to ML on items.

That way you can use the items even sooner on your TR's.

You TR'd 6 times? You are crazy and deserve a special reward. Currently level 7? that makes your total level check 13! You can now equip all of your GS items.



mmm sarcasm.

[Asketes]

On break from the game and forums (mostly). May all your rolls be 20s and may this game never forget that's 1D20.


what is this 1d20? I'm confused, can you help me out with this plz

:D:D:D:D:D

[sephiroth1084]

It has much less to do with greensteel weapons, and much more to do with knowledge and skill, at least insofar as the OP is *****ing. I was blitzing ahead of groups I joined for Tempest's Spine on my monk while leveling with pretty mediocre gear. I know the quest, know what stuff I can take down on my own, and what I can't. Oh, and monks are stupidly fast.

GS ML should be left alone, as it is one of the most fun things about TRing.

Finally, if you don't want to do runs with people who are zergin ahead and killing stuff before you get to it, start your own LFMs and request no zergers. A lot easier than making adjustments to game mechanics.

[fuzzy1guy]

Before i ever got my own tr characters or even 32 pt builds avail....

Several of my characters had no problem keeping up with or even outkilling tr characters. Some did have a problem.
They were gimpy and useless. They got fixed or deleted and the problem went away.

And after i got my own tr characters, I still see plenty of people that can keep up with and even outkill them.

The biggest thing a tr character can draw on isnt gear. It's knowing the quest, the monsters, their own skills and what they can do with them.


You just need to build better characters. And learn the game.

Altho if other people on your own team succeeding is such a problem for you. I'd suggest you have more serious issues that wont be fixed by diffrent builds or learning the game.

[Saaluta]

Lol OP, if you take a look here:
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2847766&postcount=8
you will see that at level 12 a 1 time TR is actually at the xp level of a level 14 character. A 2+ time TR has nearly enough xp to be a level 16 character, so either way you look at it, any TR should be able to use the greensteel items at level 12 since by xp definitions, they are already over level 12. ;)

Saal :)

[Holymosher]

is Greensteels ML 16?

[Holymosher]

they cant change ML 16 is higest for everything for weapons, and itd mess all up if they changed it but yes is unfair for ppl not TR

[Oolung]

is Greensteels ML 16?

no, Greensteel Weaponry is min level 12, and Greensteel items are ML 13 (or 11, I forget)

[Holymosher]

lol your right im way to tired to function

[Seamonkeysix]

they cant change ML 16 is higest for everything for weapons, and itd mess all up if they changed it but yes is unfair for ppl not TR

Gather close kiddies. Once upon a time, when you were still a twinkle in the marketing team's eye, there was a level cap of 10. There was only one raid, and you had to walk to it 10 miles uphill...both ways. Most of the time it was closed because something was broken in it. Many heroes secretly rejoiced at the "Tempest Spine is closed" sign on the door, as it was a place of death. A maze that to this day has a dreadful map and if you do not know where you are going, you may end up as a weeping soul stone.

Then they added a DRAGON! (Insert hushed gasps) At first, nobody could kill it, but the people learned the quest and eventually level 7-10s were running it on ELITE! Heroes I tell you, heroes.

Then, much time passed and the cap was raised to 12! And a new raid....THE TITAN! Nobody could beat it and we all spent countless hours trying to learn it. And that warforged titan is the same titan you and your friend kill now with no effort in groups that say "in progress" with only 3-4 people. Oh hail those early heroes.

Soon came adventures in the land of giants in GIANTHOLD and a wasteland of undead and gnolls in the DESERT! *all the wee ones cower in fear* Brave adventurers went into the explorer area and had no idea what was there. Nary a one had any idea of even where the rares were or how to flag for the raids! (eyes open wide!) But those adventurers went time after time into the fray. Learning and gaining experience for those adventures that people solo and zerg now due to the bravery of those who came before them. *excited whispers from the kids*

Over the years, other areas of death and carnage emerged...Until finally the VALE OF TWILIGHT! *screams and hiding of eyes* Yes...it was a time of fear and death. Brave adventurers set out to learn the area and the quests in the vale. Quests filled with darkness, and spiders that were being controlled, and a maze in a mountain that nearly drove them insane! But these adventurers were not to be held back. They learned, and died, and returned and died...finally conquering and entering the 13th Eclipse THE SHROUD! *mouths open wide in disbelief*

Much like the dragon of old, these heroes of ancient history had to learn the intricacies of the Shroud. Attempt upon attempt failed. But your forefathers would not give up. In the end, many an LFM went up for "Shroud group levels 13-16?"! Your ancestors ventured into the Shroud in droves time after time, well under level 16!!!! It's true. Just ask great-great grandfather. They built their greensteel weapons at altars with tear filled eyes. Pride and relief in their hearts. They knew that they finally had family heirlooms and weapons of power that would protect them for the foes to come.

Now a group of young guns has come and want to take these weapons away! *angry faces and looks of disbelief* They claim the old ones have no right to have such powerful weapons when they are still buying theirs from the crooked vendors and the oppressive auction house. But the armor and steel earned by "those who came before" are their right. They earned those with their blood, and sweat and tears and sometimes with their impatient and drunk guild members shouting in their ears until their bloodshot eyes bled! Instead of earning their own badges of honor, they seek to strip them from the ones who spent their time, effort, lifeblood, and 14.99 a month to get them.

I say no! Let us not defile our history. Let us not soil the memory of vast battlegrounds filled with soul stones. Let the new ones earn their own keep and weapons of power and celebrate the victories of the veterans of Stormreach! (And spare ourselves countless ragequit posts!)

So endeth the lesson.

***********************************

Now leave my greensteel alone.

[Uska]

Gather close kiddies. Once upon a time, when you were still a twinkle in the marketing team's eye, there was a level cap of 10. There was only one raid, and you had to walk to it 10 miles uphill...both ways. Most of the time it was closed because something was broken in it. Many heros secretly rejoiced at the "Tempest Spine is closed" sign on the door, as it was a place of death. A maze that to this day has a dreadful map and if you do not know where you are going, you may end up as a weeping soul stone.

Then they added a DRAGON! (Insert hushed gasps) At first, nobody could kill it, but the people learned the quest and eventually level 7-10s were running it on ELITE! Heros I tell you, heros.

Then, much time passed and the cap was raised to 12! And a new raid....THE TITAN! Nobody could beat it and we all spent countless hours trying to learn it. And that warforged titan is the same titan you and your friend kill now with no effort in groups that say "in progress" with only 3-4 people. Oh hail those early heros.

Soon came adventures in the land of giants in GIANTHOLD and a wasteland of undead and gnolls in the DESERT! *all the wee ones cower in fear* Brave adventurers went into the explorer area and had no idea what was there. Nary a one had any idea of even where the rares were or how to flag for the raids! (eyes open wide!) But those adventurers went time after time into the fray. Learning and gaining experience for those adventures that people solo and zerg now due to the bravery of those who came before them. *excited whispers from the kids*

Over the years, other areas of death and carnage emerged...Until finally the VALE OF TWILIGHT! *screams and hiding of eyes* Yes...it was a time of fear and death. Brave adventurers set out to learn the area and the quests in the vale. Quests filled with darkness, and spiders that were being controlled, and a maze in a mountain that nearly drove them insane! But these adventurers were not to be held back. They learned, and died, and returned and died...finally conquering and entering the 13th Eclipse THE SHROUD! *mouths open wide in disbelief*

Much like the dragon of old, these heros of ancient history had to learn the intricacies of the Shroud. Attempt upon attempt failed. But your forefathers would not give up. In the end, many an LFM went up for "Shroud group levels 13-16?"! Your ancestors ventured into the Shroud in droves time after time, well under level 16!!!! It's true. Just ask great great grandfather. They built their greensteel weapons at altars with tear filled eyes. Pride and relief in their hearts. They knew that they finally had family heirlooms and weapons of power that would protect them for the foes to come.

Now a group of young guns has come and want to take these weapons away! *angry faces and looks of disbelief* They claim the old ones have not right to have such powerful weapons when they are still buying theirs from the crooked vendors and the oppressive auction house. But the armor and steel earned by "those who came before" are their right. They earned those with their blood, and sweat and tears and sometimes with their impatient and drunk guild members shouting in their ears until their bloodshot eyes bled! Instead of earning their own badges of honor, they seek to strip them from the ones who spent their time, effort, lifeblood, and 14.99 a month to get them.

I say no! Let us not defile our history. Let us not soil the memory of vast battlegrounds filled with soul stones. Let the new ones earn their own keep and weapons of power and celebrate the victories of the veterans of Stormreach! (And spare ourselves countless ragequit posts!)

So endeth the lesson.

***********************************

Now leave my greensteel alone.



+1 for making me laugh in an otherwise silly thread.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

I don't think that I would even consider TR'ing any of my characters until they twink gear to last the through the levels.

By the way, OP, have you ever hear of the Sword Of Shadows?
It's a ML 10 weapon that makes green steel look like a child's play on anything that is not crit immune.
My TR'd fighter is currently having a lot of fun with it. :D

[Visty]

no

[AbsynthMinded]

Greensteel items negatively affect the game in a multitude of ways. I've always been of the opinion to rip the whole system out, but it's too late now.

[prestorx]

Well the OP makes a good point but not good enough to convince me to sign. The people that have GS earned it. I expect when my GS is done if I TR ill be counting the xp to level 12.

Having said that, vets it would be kind of you to not totally put the onus on the new people who don't want to zerg
to somehow try to avoid it. If all parties concerned just make LFMs very clear as to what type of run to expect then everyone will be happier I suspect.

As to "it's not the gear, it's the skill" canard...oh so that's why people are being rejected after MyDDO checks because MyDDO indicates the level of skill a player possesses...okay cool, and here I thought I was being denied due to my lacks of items...and please don't try to divert by claiming no its attribute distro...not when I get asked to link DR breakers all the time...the funniest part of that is my main is a rogue 17d6 + 12 SA and I'm being asked for proof of DR breakers...

[Seamonkeysix]

Well the OP makes a good point but not good enough to convince me to sign. The people that have GS earned it. I expect when my GS is done if I TR ill be counting the xp to level 12.

Having said that, vets it would be kind of you to not totally put the onus on the new people who don't want to zerg
to somehow try to avoid it. If all parties concerned just make LFMs very clear as to what type of run to expect then everyone will be happier I suspect.

As to "it's not the gear, it's the skill" canard...oh so that's why people are being rejected after MyDDO checks because MyDDO indicates the level of skill a player possesses...okay cool, and here I thought I was being denied due to my lacks of items...and please don't try to divert by claiming no its attribute distro...not when I get asked to link DR breakers all the time...the funniest part of that is my main is a rogue 17d6 + 12 SA and I'm being asked for proof of DR breakers...

This soooo cracks me up! You know who usually is guilty of the ridiculous DR breaker demands? New people! You know why? Because people who have been around already have DR breaking gear and don't really care too much what you have.

You should actually take a look at who's asking next time.

[Kza]

Since imo many greensteel weapons are better than epic weapons ofc ml 12 are very very low. Or epic weapons are underpowered.

I would have no problems up em to ml18, if at same time tr xp "punishment" got halved.

/kza

[MrWizard]

I suppose you haven't gotten the pleasure of seeing the people with the old school min level 8 versions then.....


:)


feel lke TRing just to show him

[jmonty]

threads like this are why everyone should get negging ability

[MrWizard]

so shroud could no longer be useful to 12th level ttons as intended...or13,14,15?

it is a low level raid, but you want to make it end game only..

booo

[Lorien_the_First_One]

so shroud could no longer be useful to 12th level ttons as intended...or13,14,15?

it is a low level raid, but you want to make it end game only..

booo

I get the feeling that the OP doesn't know that these quests and raid can and have been done by L12-15 characters for a long long long time. Or maybe he's just not one of the people that can do that.

[dopey69]

Gather close kiddies. Once upon a time, when you were still a twinkle in the marketing team's eye, there was a level cap of 10. There was only one raid, and you had to walk to it 10 miles uphill...both ways. Most of the time it was closed because something was broken in it. Many heros secretly rejoiced at the "Tempest Spine is closed" sign on the door, as it was a place of death. A maze that to this day has a dreadful map and if you do not know where you are going, you may end up as a weeping soul stone.

Then they added a DRAGON! (Insert hushed gasps) At first, nobody could kill it, but the people learned the quest and eventually level 7-10s were running it on ELITE! Heros I tell you, heros.

Then, much time passed and the cap was raised to 12! And a new raid....THE TITAN! Nobody could beat it and we all spent countless hours trying to learn it. And that warforged titan is the same titan you and your friend kill now with no effort in groups that say "in progress" with only 3-4 people. Oh hail those early heros.

Soon came adventures in the land of giants in GIANTHOLD and a wasteland of undead and gnolls in the DESERT! *all the wee ones cower in fear* Brave adventurers went into the explorer area and had no idea what was there. Nary a one had any idea of even where the rares were or how to flag for the raids! (eyes open wide!) But those adventurers went time after time into the fray. Learning and gaining experience for those adventures that people solo and zerg now due to the bravery of those who came before them. *excited whispers from the kids*

Over the years, other areas of death and carnage emerged...Until finally the VALE OF TWILIGHT! *screams and hiding of eyes* Yes...it was a time of fear and death. Brave adventurers set out to learn the area and the quests in the vale. Quests filled with darkness, and spiders that were being controlled, and a maze in a mountain that nearly drove them insane! But these adventurers were not to be held back. They learned, and died, and returned and died...finally conquering and entering the 13th Eclipse THE SHROUD! *mouths open wide in disbelief*

Much like the dragon of old, these heros of ancient history had to learn the intricacies of the Shroud. Attempt upon attempt failed. But your forefathers would not give up. In the end, many an LFM went up for "Shroud group levels 13-16?"! Your ancestors ventured into the Shroud in droves time after time, well under level 16!!!! It's true. Just ask great great grandfather. They built their greensteel weapons at altars with tear filled eyes. Pride and relief in their hearts. They knew that they finally had family heirlooms and weapons of power that would protect them for the foes to come.

Now a group of young guns has come and want to take these weapons away! *angry faces and looks of disbelief* They claim the old ones have not right to have such powerful weapons when they are still buying theirs from the crooked vendors and the oppressive auction house. But the armor and steel earned by "those who came before" are their right. They earned those with their blood, and sweat and tears and sometimes with their impatient and drunk guild members shouting in their ears until their bloodshot eyes bled! Instead of earning their own badges of honor, they seek to strip them from the ones who spent their time, effort, lifeblood, and 14.99 a month to get them.

I say no! Let us not defile our history. Let us not soil the memory of vast battlegrounds filled with soul stones. Let the new ones earn their own keep and weapons of power and celebrate the victories of the veterans of Stormreach! (And spare ourselves countless ragequit posts!)

So endeth the lesson.

***********************************

Now leave my greensteel alone.

great post :) +

[diamabel]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

Dunno if changing the minim level would make such a significant change. Maybe it would be better to consider equipment and grade of a toons specializiation (melee damage, spell damage, healing power, etc) when it comes to dungeon scaling. E.g. the better you are equipped the stronger the monsters get. Equipment within inventory could be considered as well.

[Irinis]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

Oh no someone has a better weapon than you that they EARNED! Wahhh!

[lekkus]

Gather close kiddies. Once upon a time,

So endeth the lesson.

***********************************

Now leave my greensteel alone.

+1 but would be nicer if there werent so many mistakes in it :o

[Quikster]

Well the OP makes a good point but not good enough to convince me to sign. The people that have GS earned it. I expect when my GS is done if I TR ill be counting the xp to level 12.

Having said that, vets it would be kind of you to not totally put the onus on the new people who don't want to zerg
to somehow try to avoid it. If all parties concerned just make LFMs very clear as to what type of run to expect then everyone will be happier I suspect.

As to "it's not the gear, it's the skill" canard...oh so that's why people are being rejected after MyDDO checks because MyDDO indicates the level of skill a player possesses...okay cool, and here I thought I was being denied due to my lacks of items...and please don't try to divert by claiming no its attribute distro...not when I get asked to link DR breakers all the time...the funniest part of that is my main is a rogue 17d6 + 12 SA and I'm being asked for proof of DR breakers...

Those are newbs or n00bs doing that. I have never declined someone because of their myddo. I have never myddo'd someone who tried to join my raid. People that are insecure of their own abilities, and are mortified that a few newbs might cause their raid to fail vet with myddo.

IMO the most important aspect of a player in a raid group isnt viewable in myddo, and that is if they can follow directions and work as a team.

[lugoman]

How can you say such a thing? It's quite mean of you to ruin OP's life this way.

It's only going to get you more rep which will set OP even further behind than he is already! You're ruining his enjoyment of the forums with your massive green bar! How can everyone be equal when you insist on having comments that are so much more reasonable than others'?

Lol, wow you actually care about the green bar? Might be a good idea as I think the Pope said they are going to start using the rep bar to decide who gets into heaven.

[lugoman]

If you arent an EU player I would assume ur 1 of the newbie crybabies that want everything over night,and if you cant have it then people that worked long and hard shouldn't either I have been moderately effected by every nerf in this game and Im not gonna be thrilled to go through another
using weapons such as this is 1 of the few reasons why I would even consider TRing

I assume you are one of the new crybabies who want easy mode.

[Correlan]

/Not signed

I'm keeping my greensteel baby...

[die]

lol get some GS and TR :)

[lugoman]

I don't think that I would even consider TR'ing any of my characters until they twink gear to last the through the levels.

By the way, OP, have you ever hear of the Sword Of Shadows?
It's a ML 10 weapon that makes green steel look like a child's play on anything that is not crit immune.
My TR'd fighter is currently having a lot of fun with it. :D

Why is it fun though? Do you regularly play level 8 quest on your capped toon? Funny how people constantly wine about ddo easy mode and then have a fit when a suggestion is made to tone down the easy.

[Kahath]

Most definitely /not signed

[Seamonkeysix]

+1 but would be nicer if there werent so many mistakes in it :o

I was rage typing! :D

[Gremmlynn]

I disagree with the original post, as it is easy enough to simply drop any group that one dosent find enjoyable. So can't see why we should put limits on what others might find fun.
Why is it fun though? Do you regularly play level 8 quest on your capped toon? Funny how people constantly wine about ddo easy mode and then have a fit when a suggestion is made to tone down the easy.This on the other hand, I'll have to say has confused me also. I'm guessing it has something to do with players feeling that after they have "paid their dues" by "earning" all their easy buttons, they deserve to have a game that is all ice cream and puppies from then on.

[Seamonkeysix]

Why is it fun though? Do you regularly play level 8 quest on your capped toon? Funny how people constantly wine about ddo easy mode and then have a fit when a suggestion is made to tone down the easy.

But what you are suggesting won't tone down the "easy". I think what everyone is saying is that twink gear is twink gear, but more importantly, experience and proficiency are always an edge that new players won't have. SoS, while very powerful, is something anybody can get. Carnifex...same deal. Greater bane weapons, same same. Heck, I have a monk with +1 paralyzing handwraps of icy burst at level 8. I can solo anything at level....fast. Should they be taken away because I have run countless quests and now have gear that makes low level questing easy?

The gear you are complaining about at lower levels becomes standard at higher levels. People who are TRing won't stay mid level for long. Asking that tools they have be eliminated and make their journey slower is not the answer. It is just asking for a decisive and negative response.

As I said before, someday you will have toons with lots of gear you have played hard for. You won't appreciate somebody coming to the forums, calling them an "easy button" and asking for their removal, because there sure as h*ll was no easy button getting them the first time around.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

But what you are suggesting won't tone down the "easy". I think what everyone is saying is that twink gear is twink gear, but more importantly, experience and proficiency is always an edge that new players won't have. SoS, while very powerful, is something anybody can get. Carnifex...same deal. Greater bane weapons, same same. Heck, I have a monk with +1 paralyzing handwraps of icy burst at level 8. I can solo anything at level....fast. Should they be taken away because I have run countless quests and now have gear that makes low level questing easy?

The gear you are complaining about at lower levels becomes standard at higher levels. People who are TRing won't stay mid level for long. Asking that tools that make their journey slower is just asking for a decisive and negative response.

As I said before, someday you will have toons with lots of gear you have played hard for. You won't appreciate somebody coming to the forums, calling them an "easy button" and asking for their removal, because there sure as h*ll was no easy button getting them the first time around.

Icyburst is the most overpowered thing they did to this game.

[Seamonkeysix]

Icyburst is the most overpowered thing they did to this game.

Exactly.

[Sethasoigh]

Make your own LFM with this in the comments "no TR's with GS cause i want to kill it tooooooooo". Problem solved.

[joneb1999]

Its not realistic to ask a newb not to pug. Especially if they dont know anyone in the game. Think about it. Second its no fun when a powerful toon, TR, tooled up to the max or not, runs ahead speedily completing a quest you have never played before not allowing you to experience it.

Third as someoone said knowing the quest helps alot but how are you supposed to know a quest if you dont get to play it through as someone else is running around mad doing everything and you cant keep uop and its done before you know what was really going on.

A guildy of mine asked me to bring my rogue to a wiz king run we did on normal at level 14 to 20. No-one needed him and everyone just run mad and that was funny but what isnt funny is if that happens to you when you are new and inexperienced and need to to run the quest properly and you get left behind.

If you plan to zerg and you start an lfm make it clear you are rushing and if you are new pay attention to such an lfm.

[Pyromaniac]

/not signed. Why stop/slow down the reincarnate train? And I'm not one that does much of that.

But always good to see Turbine get cash from players.

[lugoman]

/not signed. Why stop/slow down the reincarnate train? And I'm not one that does much of that.

But always good to see Turbine get cash from players.

No I dont want to slow the tr train. I want Turbine to stop making level <10 quest and maybe make some harder mid level quests catering to elite/tr players where your gear wont be op. Quests that give xp proportional to the amount of effort. Quests where the point is xp, not items so Turbine can make them faster and not worry about balancing items. Make the tr process a little more than running the same xp friendly quest over and over again.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

No I dont want to slow the tr train. I want Turbine to stop making level <10 quest and maybe make some harder mid level quests catering to elite/tr players where your gear wont be op. Quests that give xp proportional to the amount of effort. Quests where the point is xp, not items so Turbine can make them faster and not worry about balancing items. Make the tr process a little more than running the same xp friendly quest over and over again.

Icyburst can destroy low level content as easily than GS and it can do it from L1 and not just for a couple mid levels. Are you recommending an ML increase for all icyburst weapons?

[Nick_RC]

I suppose you haven't gotten the pleasure of seeing the people with the old school min level 8 versions then.....

< right here + 9 cha that happens to be a haste clickie too:D

Edit : and stay the **** away from my greensteel!

[lugoman]

As I said before, someday you will have toons with lots of gear you have played hard for. You won't appreciate somebody coming to the forums, calling them an "easy button" and asking for their removal, because there sure as h*ll was no easy button getting them the first time around.

I do have them now. While I havent been playing since the start and dont have 100's of shroud completions like some, I do have 60+ completions on 3 toons. I have farmed my fair share of large scales and have made a number of min ii, lit ii and con op items. I wasnt using the term easy as to getting the weapons (although it is easy - i dont equate the word grind with difficulty) but using them to kill stuff at level 12 is easy.


And if I ever do tr, I probably would use the weapons as the grind sounds horrible. That says more about the broken tr process than it does about gs being needed at level 12. And I wouldnt care about ruining others fun as long as I was doing what I wanted.

[suitepotato]

Lol, yes how on earth can it effect me when I join a tempest spine raid and a guy runs ahead with dual lit ii's killing everything before I even get there? This is how the game should be played? Turbine should just add a /follow command and I can go watch tv while my toon completes quest.

I suppose you are used to being carried through quests for loot and xp. I find it fun to contribute and have a little challenge when I play.



Ok, I was right.

No, you were wrong. Tempest Spine isn't a lvl14 quest. It's below that level. Your complaint is like complaining about a lvl6 with dual flaming/icy burst weapons who rampages through Water Works.

There are only six levels to go from lvl14 and I can tell you that dual wielding shroud weapons at those quests is not a win-the-game situation. Haph has such weapons and is not running through Gianthold quests fancy free solo and slaughtering everything before they do damage to him. Frequently, it will be sufficient to prevent getting off a heal pot, and ta-da... Death.

At lvl20 those weapons are just a small part of a good group with good tactics. Their easy button lvls are 10 and below depending on the quest. Of course, if you try zerging the third part of Water Works on elite solo there's a good chance the kobold shamans will get off a successful hold or other debilitating spell and you'll be overwhelmed.

Overpowered? Not hardly.

[Thucydides04]

Why not just propose you don't get your TR cache until you cap then? This idea is rediculous. I can go take a metaline of PG weapon and throw icy burst on it and it is probably as good as a min 2. But I can find ml4 metalline of pg weapons. Furthermore, I have taken holy of PG weapons and added icy burst to them, which I have for each level from 6-10... for trash these weapons are better than min 2.

The fact that I know how to control agro and kill stuff quickly has no bearing on my min 2 or extra 45 hps or my haste clickies, i still zerg everything before level 11 and 12. Maybe we should take away firewall too lol.

/not signed

[LookingForABentoBox]

That's been the most fun of my TR so far, being able to use all my raid loot from my past life at its minimum level. IMHO making it easier to level is very reasonable given that the xp needed for a TR to level is higher than a non-TR.

[ace_mason]

Lol, yes how on earth can it effect me when I join a tempest spine raid and a guy runs ahead with dual lit ii's killing everything before I even get there? This is how the game should be played? Turbine should just add a /follow command and I can go watch tv while my toon completes quest.

I suppose you are used to being carried through quests for loot and xp. I find it fun to contribute and have a little challenge when I play.



Hold on and let me do some self reflecting .......

Ommmmmmmmmm..................Ommmmmmmmmmm......... .....Ommmmmmmm

Ok, I was right.
If you take away my min level 12 lit II. I will just use my Holy Burst Icy Burst pure good with force critcal on it. Nerf away my friend.

[mediocresurgeon]

Let's compare Green Steel (min level 12) to some unbound weapons and see if Green Steel is as overpowered as the OP thinks it is.

Typical Green Steel:
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2660/screenshot00045h.jpg
1d10+3d6+1d4+5+(burst)

Example level 2 weapon:
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/429/screenshot00047f.jpg
1d12+3d6+1

Example level 6 weapon:
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9114/screenshot00046.jpg
1d8+4d6+1+(burst)+(Augment)

Example level 12 weapon:
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2769/screenshot00045j.jpg
5d6+5+(burst)

None of the above weapons are bound. Bound items tend to be significantly better than unbound gear. Green Steel items bind to character. Therefore, any green steel items should be more outrageous for its level than the gear I screenshotted. As I've shown here, the typical green steel weapon (Mineral II Khopesh with +4 AC) does not do significantly more damage than high-end randomly-generated gear.

[Modinator0]

*loving the fact that people are always *****ing about Turbine making the game easy mode, then when someone suggests something that would make it less easy for vets without touching new players, everyone digs into him*

[04pugdog04]

Lol, yes how on earth can it effect me when I join a tempest spine raid and a guy runs ahead with dual lit ii's killing everything before I even get there? This is how the game should be played? Turbine should just add a /follow command and I can go watch tv while my toon completes quest.

I suppose you are used to being carried through quests for loot and xp. I find it fun to contribute and have a little challenge when I play.



Hold on and let me do some self reflecting .......

Ommmmmmmmmm..................Ommmmmmmmmmm......... .....Ommmmmmmm

Ok, I was right.





Darn I always knew hoko was a piker seriously OP learn to play the game and dont ask for my weapons to be gimped if they changed mineral 2 to level 16 I dont think I would ever TR again.

[Kalari]

*loving the fact that people are always *****ing about Turbine making the game easy mode, then when someone suggests something that would make it less easy for vets without touching new players, everyone digs into him*

Was going to stay out of this thread but seen this comment from you and another and im sorry I have to disagree with your comment.

Now I have greensteels but not on my TR because the only TR I have, I know I messed up so I rebuilt her. I have plenty of other nice gear on her yes but I was smart enough not to make her a green steel item for what she used to be because I knew I wanted something different. I could have left this thread and my opinion alone but im so sick of people saying "Vets cry about the easy buttons put in this game but then dont want major changes that affect the ease of their gear..."

Point blank its easy to avoid TR groups it amazes me the way people act, when TR first came out they only wanted to group together they got bashed for LFM's saying TR only. Now they cant join groups because they "Gasp" kill things quicker and have better gear.. Its a no win situation.

But my main beef with the quote Ive quoted is easy buttons that affect the entire game like changing trap locations, adding unlocking rest shrines, the store selling unlimited mana and the like can affect a group even if you want to go slow. That kinda ease you can try to get around in a group but you cant monitor who is using what unless you play only with people in your house. And you can set whatever house rule you want it only takes on jerk to ruin that.

I say to the OP sure having greensteels at 12 is over powered but they are there and if you dont want to see them avoid people wielding them at that level at least you can try to do that by forming your own groups steer clear of anyone with wings near their name. But the other true Easy Buttons in this game with every update that cant be avoided I will continue to gripe about until they finally give us Hard and Elite the way its meant to be.

/soap box.

[Taimasan]

Personally I think Greensteel should be ML 18, the same time when monks can wear their rings.

[Krag]

None of the above weapons are bound. Bound items tend to be significantly better than unbound gear. Green Steel items bind to character. Therefore, any green steel items should be more outrageous for its level than the gear I screenshotted. As I've shown here, the typical green steel weapon (Mineral II Khopesh with +4 AC) does not do significantly more damage than high-end randomly-generated gear.

Why do you insist on comparing DRbreakers to generic trashbeaters? Lit II deals significantly more damage and ignores far-too-common cold resist/immunity.

[mediocresurgeon]

Why do you insist on comparing DRbreakers to generic trashbeaters? Lit II deals significantly more damage and ignores far-too-common cold resist/immunity.

Most players don't use Lit II weapons. I chose the most common GS weapon for my post (mineral II khopesh with +4 AC). It's a staple for most builds.

[Stormanne]

And I wouldnt care about ruining others fun as long as I was doing what I wanted.

And we have now come to the crux of the thread. It all boils down to you feeling you are more important than the rest of the community.

[Krag]

Most players don't use Lit II weapons. I chose the most common GS weapon for my post (mineral II khopesh with +4 AC). It's a staple for most builds.

Most players would be better served with some cheap +5 Metalline of PG weapon and Lit II, but I see your point.

[Junts]

Most players don't use Lit II weapons. I chose the most common GS weapon for my post (mineral II khopesh with +4 AC). It's a staple for most builds.

Most people do not have an insight 4 weapon of any kind, sir.

a weapon that deals 3d6+1d4 with 4d10 worth of bursting damage is substantially better than any of the twink weapons you displayed, with the added advantage of working on everything.

If said weapon was not better, non-ac builds would be using random gen icy burst weapons most of the time .. and they aren't.

[Ollathir]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

You presume too much.



*loving the fact that people are always *****ing about Turbine making the game easy mode, then when someone suggests something that would make it less easy for vets without touching new players, everyone digs into him*

Your summation is skewed in your equating of greensteel to an easy button. It's not even an issue of easy or not, its an issue of trying to remove more "fun" factor from the game, for primarily TR'd players. Since thats who it effects in general.

The "easy button" more often refers to Turbines attempts to close the gap between newer and more experienced players. (Because newer players are more likely to become frustated with "what they dont have or what they can't do", while playing the game.) Since Turbine can't get paid if they quit, one such way is by adding in game purchasable goods from the store that in the past were not available or had to be earned through game play. Which in turn forced you, the player, to learn to do without or to earn. A byproduct of which, if you had the patience, meant learning to play the game better.

Currently, greensteel items and weapons are not sold in the DDO store. You, the player, still need to learn to do without or to earn.

[SINIBYTE]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

As we say... "Jealousy's a mofo!".

[YakoSpiritFist]

They earned those weapons they should be aloud to use them. I don't have any greensteel either and you don't see me crying about it. Or maybe that is why I like monks so much lol. Either way get over it and just play the game.

[mediocresurgeon]

a weapon that deals 3d6+1d4 with 4d10 worth of bursting damage is substantially better than any of the twink weapons you displayed, with the added advantage of working on everything.

If said weapon was not better, non-ac builds would be using random gen icy burst weapons most of the time .. and they aren't.

My point wasn't that randomly-generated items are better than Green Steel. My point was that even without Green Steel, a level 12 character still has access to some pretty ridiculous weapons. Increasing the minimum level on Green Steel weapons isn't going to stop TRs from 1-shotting level-appropriate content at lvl~12 since they probably have other options.

The OP is finding a cure for the symptoms (TRed character tend to have much better gear) and not the actual problem (it is highly improbably to find twink gear for a character in a quest designed for that character's level).

[MysteryNotes]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

Translates to:
I'm too lazy to farm and make my own greensteel items and TR, so i want YOU(Turbine) to nerf EVERYONE else but me.

No.

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

Personally I think Greensteel should be ML 18, the same time when monks can wear their rings.

Do you seriously think it makes sense for the items you can craft when you are level 12 to be min level 18? Give that idea some thought. When the Shroud was put in, cap was 16 and yes people as low as level 12 ran it and completed and crafted. Wake the heck up and try basing your ideas on reality instead of petty envy.

[Maxson]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

No, **** off, it takes ages to make greensteel items and I don't see why you having not made any of them makes it fair on those of us who have, TRing is purely a powergaming thing so greensteel owners usually want to powergame.

[Taimasan]

Do you seriously think it makes sense for the items you can craft when you are level 12 to be min level 18? Give that idea some thought. When the Shroud was put in, cap was 16 and yes people as low as level 12 ran it and completed and crafted. Wake the heck up and try basing your ideas on reality instead of petty envy.


The cap is 20 now..and just lol, your taking this serious to the max. And reality?? This is a video game dude. Maybe your the one who needs to do some waking up. Since your so cranky(midlife crisis, need a hug, I dunno), I think you need a little cheering up. So 7daytrial this picture is for you.

http://www.allmotivated.com/pictures/Demotivational-pictures-happiness.jpg

[Sirea]

Gather close kiddies. Once upon a time, when you were still a twinkle in the marketing team's eye, there was a level cap of 10. There was only one raid, and you had to walk to it 10 miles uphill...both ways. Most of the time it was closed because something was broken in it. Many heroes secretly rejoiced at the "Tempest Spine is closed" sign on the door, as it was a place of death. A maze that to this day has a dreadful map and if you do not know where you are going, you may end up as a weeping soul stone.

Then they added a DRAGON! (Insert hushed gasps) At first, nobody could kill it, but the people learned the quest and eventually level 7-10s were running it on ELITE! Heroes I tell you, heroes.

Then, much time passed and the cap was raised to 12! And a new raid....THE TITAN! Nobody could beat it and we all spent countless hours trying to learn it. And that warforged titan is the same titan you and your friend kill now with no effort in groups that say "in progress" with only 3-4 people. Oh hail those early heroes.

Soon came adventures in the land of giants in GIANTHOLD and a wasteland of undead and gnolls in the DESERT! *all the wee ones cower in fear* Brave adventurers went into the explorer area and had no idea what was there. Nary a one had any idea of even where the rares were or how to flag for the raids! (eyes open wide!) But those adventurers went time after time into the fray. Learning and gaining experience for those adventures that people solo and zerg now due to the bravery of those who came before them. *excited whispers from the kids*

Over the years, other areas of death and carnage emerged...Until finally the VALE OF TWILIGHT! *screams and hiding of eyes* Yes...it was a time of fear and death. Brave adventurers set out to learn the area and the quests in the vale. Quests filled with darkness, and spiders that were being controlled, and a maze in a mountain that nearly drove them insane! But these adventurers were not to be held back. They learned, and died, and returned and died...finally conquering and entering the 13th Eclipse THE SHROUD! *mouths open wide in disbelief*

Much like the dragon of old, these heroes of ancient history had to learn the intricacies of the Shroud. Attempt upon attempt failed. But your forefathers would not give up. In the end, many an LFM went up for "Shroud group levels 13-16?"! Your ancestors ventured into the Shroud in droves time after time, well under level 16!!!! It's true. Just ask great-great grandfather. They built their greensteel weapons at altars with tear filled eyes. Pride and relief in their hearts. They knew that they finally had family heirlooms and weapons of power that would protect them for the foes to come.

Now a group of young guns has come and want to take these weapons away! *angry faces and looks of disbelief* They claim the old ones have no right to have such powerful weapons when they are still buying theirs from the crooked vendors and the oppressive auction house. But the armor and steel earned by "those who came before" are their right. They earned those with their blood, and sweat and tears and sometimes with their impatient and drunk guild members shouting in their ears until their bloodshot eyes bled! Instead of earning their own badges of honor, they seek to strip them from the ones who spent their time, effort, lifeblood, and 14.99 a month to get them.

I say no! Let us not defile our history. Let us not soil the memory of vast battlegrounds filled with soul stones. Let the new ones earn their own keep and weapons of power and celebrate the victories of the veterans of Stormreach! (And spare ourselves countless ragequit posts!)

So endeth the lesson.

***********************************

Now leave my greensteel alone.

I'm glad I read past the first page, or I would have missed this, +1 :)

OP, your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries! Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time! :eek:

[DelScorcho]

Which is why my bard, leads melee kill count in many, many shrouds. Gasp, with no greensteel. Sometimes it aint the tool, but how you use it. Knowing whats around every corner is much more likely than his weapons were that much better than yours.

Maybe you should start hitting the portals ... :D

[ElfedLied4]

Its not realistic to ask a newb not to pug. Especially if they dont know anyone in the game. Think about it. Second its no fun when a powerful toon, TR, tooled up to the max or not, runs ahead speedily completing a quest you have never played before not allowing you to experience it.

Third as someoone said knowing the quest helps alot but how are you supposed to know a quest if you dont get to play it through as someone else is running around mad doing everything and you cant keep uop and its done before you know what was really going on.

A guildy of mine asked me to bring my rogue to a wiz king run we did on normal at level 14 to 20. No-one needed him and everyone just run mad and that was funny but what isnt funny is if that happens to you when you are new and inexperienced and need to to run the quest properly and you get left behind.

If you plan to zerg and you start an lfm make it clear you are rushing and if you are new pay attention to such an lfm.

My first time in the quest Rainbow in the Dark(which was fairly recently): I have no idea what mobs I'll face. I have no idea where the objectives are. I don't know where the traps are. I don't know which greater resist cloak I should be wearing. I'm in a group full of people who know the quest backward and forward.

How do you think the run went? Did I fall behind? Did I not get any kills? Was I lost and wandering around? No.

The run went fine. I have 25 striders, so I kept up with the group. I LED killcount. (Oh my, DR breakers are OP, they should be ML:20) I have no idea how anyone "get's lost" or falls behind a speedy 'zerger' who is killing things. (a true zerger ignores mobs except for quest objectives and bringing alert back down) Everyone runs at the same base speed. If you can't keep up you should get a pair of striders. That 'zerger' you talked about is just killing things and moving on. Killing takes time. If you can't keep in sight there's something else going on.

On that Rainbow run, I even got ahead of the group and fell down in one of the pit traps. "How/why did you get ahead of the group, especially since it's so dark in there?" For me, the walls showing up on the minimap is all I need to navigate properly. Mobs have visible health bars and names so I can fight in pure darkness just fine. Everything in the hall was cleared and "forward" was the only unexplored direction, so I ran that way. Waiting for the torchbearer, while generally a smart move, is unneeded except for showing those pit traps. Since I didn't know about the traps it was a reasonable thing to "Kill and Move On".

If after you've run a quest you still don't know what happened or why; you can check the wiki, solo it, or ask a question on the forum or in game.

[Bigrtt]

I disagree. TR toons not only need a big grind to cap again, but the initial grind to make GS items/weapons is just as big.

At least we get somehting for our effort. It's by no means an easy to get item, especially if it's a TWF toon.

[thisgamesull]

Personally I think Greensteel should be ML 18, the same time when monks can wear their rings.

Nice join date:D

[Taimasan]

Nice join date:D

Haters gonna hate.

http://a.imageshack.us/img405/4418/retouched.jpg

[thisgamesull]

I assume you are one of the new crybabies who want easy mode.

I think I have a greensteel pacifier somewhere for ya, oops sorry ur lvl is to low:D

[lugoman]

And we have now come to the crux of the thread. It all boils down to you feeling you are more important than the rest of the community.

Yes, just like everyone else who plays the game. Just like all the tr's who say leave the ml alone because raising it ruins the game how they like to play. I posted the original because the ml was ruining how I like to play. We are all here to have fun playing the game the way it makes us happy. Not many are here to bring fun to the community at our own expense.

The post was about Turbine changing the ml for the good of the whole game. I didnt make a post asking tr's to please not use there gs weapons until they were level 16. That would have been ridiculous as it would be against there own self interest to do so.

[thisgamesull]

Haters gonna hate.

http://a.imageshack.us/img405/4418/retouched.jpg

Rofl nice wad of cash yo,but what does that have to do with my comment?

[Sirea]

I didnt make a post asking tr's to please not use there gs weapons until they were level 16.

No, you made a post asking Turbine to force everyone to play the game the way *you* want it to be played.

[KillEveryone]

No thanks.

I'm working at getting my items clensed just to be able to use all them when I TR. I'm working on weapons just to be able to use them when I TR.

I want to play with that stuff when I TR and if I couldn't then there wouldn't be as much desire to TR. I've already ran the quests with twink gear now I want to play with my uber gear. It takes a long time to make that stuff and I want to play with it. I don't want it later, I want it a bit sooner actually but I can't enter Vale much more early than the current min level so I'm happy with the current min level.

You get NOTHING for having the highest kill count so it doesn't mean anything anyway. Quit fretting about the kill count.

[lugoman]

Most people do not have an insight 4 weapon of any kind, sir.

a weapon that deals 3d6+1d4 with 4d10 worth of bursting damage is substantially better than any of the twink weapons you displayed, with the added advantage of working on everything.

If said weapon was not better, non-ac builds would be using random gen icy burst weapons most of the time .. and they aren't.

Seems half the post say dont change the ml because gs weapons ARENT op, they are comparable to any other twink gear. The other half says dont change the ml because gs weapons ARE op and we need op weapons to speed up getting xp on a tr. Maybe Turbine are geniuses and figured out how to make a weapon OP/!OP at the same time.

[Taimasan]

Rofl nice wad of cash yo,but what does that have to do with my comment?

"People call me The Fundraiser. They call me that 'cause that's what I do. I raise funds.

I get my money up.

The first rule of fundraising is, don't give nothing to nobody. Period.

No charities, no homeless people, Salvation Army, Red Cross, starving Africans, nothing. You cant be raising funds and giving funds away at the same time. Thats like getting high on your own supply.

I always had the drive to make money, and the plan. I knew that if I studied enough gangster movies, I'd know everything I'd need to know to take over the streets.

The second rule of fundraising is, that fundraising is not illegal.

See, that's 'cause you're not technically stealing from people. They give you the money.

So maybe you lie about what you're going to do with it, but you never actually take their money from them. And that's why it's legal.

That brings us to the third rule of fundraising. You gotta pay the cost of doing business. "

--Riley Freeman, Boondocks

[KillEveryone]

Seems half the post say dont change the ml because gs weapons ARENT op, they are comparable to any other twink gear. The other half says dont change the ml because gs weapons ARE op and we need op weapons to speed up getting xp on a tr. Maybe Turbine are geniuses and figured out how to make a weapon OP/!OP at the same time.

Some things are better than twink.

My weapons are not really much better. I have a nice weapon selection and all bases are typically covered. I just worked on my GS weapons so I want to play with them also.

My guards and HP items are better than twink. My radiance guard also gives me 45 HP and a couple of str and con skill points. My CHA skill item also gives me SP and haste clickie. My Disease/Fear/Poison/Deathblock immunity item also is a slay living guard.

These items are a bit better than your twink item because they has several effects on 1 slot. Items are min lvl 11 and if weapons get their min lvl changed, the devs will look at item and think they need changed also and I don't want that.

[thisgamesull]

Ok heres what I meant by talking about join dates in previous posts

seems like to me that you havent experienced alot of the game changes,I have,
Turbine has made 5mpp items worthless that we have grinded for many months
Turbine has not bothered to make it up to the players
I had 3 w/p rapiers I had 5 concordant opps I had designed my character with these certain feats,many,many nerfs we have been affected by
Ur join date tells me unless you are an EU player that you have not been through as much

If I can get my time spent back from making or purchasing my stuff then cool ML16-ML 18 I have no problem with

[sephiroth1084]

Yes, just like everyone else who plays the game. Just like all the tr's who say leave the ml alone because raising it ruins the game how they like to play. I posted the original because the ml was ruining how I like to play. We are all here to have fun playing the game the way it makes us happy. Not many are here to bring fun to the community at our own expense.

The post was about Turbine changing the ml for the good of the whole game. I didnt make a post asking tr's to please not use there gs weapons until they were level 16. That would have been ridiculous as it would be against there own self interest to do so.
Except, you want the game to change to accommodate you, while the people who don't want the ML to change, such as TRs, aren't affecting you. There is an easier solution:

DON'T RUN WITH TWINKED CHARACTERS OR VETS.

There, done. No need to rewrite code and ruin other people's fun. All you have to do is put up your own LFMs, or join a guild that doesn't do zerg runs. Maybe go do permadeath, or join Epitaph. :rolleyes:

One way promotes your desires over those of others, while the other lets everyone have their fun their own way.

[MysteryNotes]

Haters gonna hate.

http://a.imageshack.us/img405/4418/retouched.jpg

You stole my munneh!

[SockMonkey]

some call the wambulance!!! seriously take some of the advice offered, find groups/guilds who want to run your speed.

[Sithias]

Personally I think Greensteel should be ML 18, the same time when monks can wear their rings.

I knew I would find you on here causing trouble.... :P

[NaturalHazard]

Wouldnt it be kind of ironic if the OP gets to 20 has greensteel TR's and when his TR is level 12 hes zerging ahead of all the noobs and screaming at them if they mess up? lol

[Taimasan]

Wouldnt it be kind of ironic if the OP gets to 20 has greensteel TR's and when his TR is level 12 hes zerging ahead of all the noobs and screaming at them if they mess up? lol

lol yea that would be hilarious, funny how we turn into the people we hate ><

[Seamonkeysix]

Wouldnt it be kind of ironic if the OP gets to 20 has greensteel TR's and when his TR is level 12 hes zerging ahead of all the noobs and screaming at them if they mess up? lol

He won't be able to zerg ahead if he gets his way. Everyone will have masterwork weapons, equal hit points, the same armor class, kill count, abilities, plat, and play time. It's like MMORPG Communism! :D:eek:

[PCNONSENSE]

Part of the fun of TR is that you are uber twinked and that helps make up for the nasty XP curve. If they change GS's ML, it would reduce the fun of TRing and it would probably be the last straw that ended my time with DDO. I don't find epic at all interesting, TRing is the only next step for L20 chars for me, and that would help kill the game.


^^^^THIS^^^^

I couldnt have said it better...Thanks

[NaturalHazard]

I dont see what the issue is, no one is forcing you to group with TR's or with people who zerg, if i dont want to zerg a quest i put up my own lfm, or as soon as i join I ask if there is going to be zerging. And i dont mind if people playing their charactors are doing well, as in killing stuff quickly, its better than wiping. And that happens for example on certain quests with sorcs/wizzies FOD and wailing everything to death, before you can get a swing to connect. My advice for the OP is to start your own guild and call it gimped inc, and only allow members in who at level 12 are still using plain +3 weapons and have 8 con.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Gather close kiddies. Once upon a time, when you were still a twinkle in the marketing team's eye, there was a level cap of 10. There was only one raid, and you had to walk to it 10 miles uphill...both ways. Most of the time it was closed because something was broken in it. Many heroes secretly rejoiced at the "Tempest Spine is closed" sign on the door, as it was a place of death. A maze that to this day has a dreadful map and if you do not know where you are going, you may end up as a weeping soul stone.

Then they added a DRAGON! (Insert hushed gasps) At first, nobody could kill it, but the people learned the quest and eventually level 7-10s were running it on ELITE! Heroes I tell you, heroes.

Then, much time passed and the cap was raised to 12! And a new raid....THE TITAN! Nobody could beat it and we all spent countless hours trying to learn it. And that warforged titan is the same titan you and your friend kill now with no effort in groups that say "in progress" with only 3-4 people. Oh hail those early heroes.

Soon came adventures in the land of giants in GIANTHOLD and a wasteland of undead and gnolls in the DESERT! *all the wee ones cower in fear* Brave adventurers went into the explorer area and had no idea what was there. Nary a one had any idea of even where the rares were or how to flag for the raids! (eyes open wide!) But those adventurers went time after time into the fray. Learning and gaining experience for those adventures that people solo and zerg now due to the bravery of those who came before them. *excited whispers from the kids*

Over the years, other areas of death and carnage emerged...Until finally the VALE OF TWILIGHT! *screams and hiding of eyes* Yes...it was a time of fear and death. Brave adventurers set out to learn the area and the quests in the vale. Quests filled with darkness, and spiders that were being controlled, and a maze in a mountain that nearly drove them insane! But these adventurers were not to be held back. They learned, and died, and returned and died...finally conquering and entering the 13th Eclipse THE SHROUD! *mouths open wide in disbelief*

Much like the dragon of old, these heroes of ancient history had to learn the intricacies of the Shroud. Attempt upon attempt failed. But your forefathers would not give up. In the end, many an LFM went up for "Shroud group levels 13-16?"! Your ancestors ventured into the Shroud in droves time after time, well under level 16!!!! It's true. Just ask great-great grandfather. They built their greensteel weapons at altars with tear filled eyes. Pride and relief in their hearts. They knew that they finally had family heirlooms and weapons of power that would protect them for the foes to come.

Now a group of young guns has come and want to take these weapons away! *angry faces and looks of disbelief* They claim the old ones have no right to have such powerful weapons when they are still buying theirs from the crooked vendors and the oppressive auction house. But the armor and steel earned by "those who came before" are their right. They earned those with their blood, and sweat and tears and sometimes with their impatient and drunk guild members shouting in their ears until their bloodshot eyes bled! Instead of earning their own badges of honor, they seek to strip them from the ones who spent their time, effort, lifeblood, and 14.99 a month to get them.

I say no! Let us not defile our history. Let us not soil the memory of vast battlegrounds filled with soul stones. Let the new ones earn their own keep and weapons of power and celebrate the victories of the veterans of Stormreach! (And spare ourselves countless ragequit posts!)

So endeth the lesson.

***********************************

Now leave my greensteel alone.

+1 for the lols :)

[Lorz]

"People call me The Fundraiser. They call me that 'cause that's what I do. I raise funds.

I get my money up.

The first rule of fundraising is, don't give nothing to nobody. Period.

No charities, no homeless people, Salvation Army, Red Cross, starving Africans, nothing. You cant be raising funds and giving funds away at the same time. Thats like getting high on your own supply.

I always had the drive to make money, and the plan. I knew that if I studied enough gangster movies, I'd know everything I'd need to know to take over the streets.

The second rule of fundraising is, that fundraising is not illegal.

See, that's 'cause you're not technically stealing from people. They give you the money.

So maybe you lie about what you're going to do with it, but you never actually take their money from them. And that's why it's legal.

That brings us to the third rule of fundraising. You gotta pay the cost of doing business. "

--Riley Freeman, Boondocks

Boondocks!!!! I have a toon named after one of the episodes rappers. He is the 'licious.

[Slink]

Lol, yes how on earth can it effect me when I join a tempest spine raid and a guy runs ahead with dual lit ii's killing everything before I even get there? This is how the game should be played? Turbine should just add a /follow command and I can go watch tv while my toon completes quest.

I suppose you are used to being carried through quests for loot and xp. I find it fun to contribute and have a little challenge when I play.


He is probably the same individual that had 4 DW clickies, gtr resist cloaks in every flavor and enouigh girds to GH the entire party(but didnt).
Soloed fire/ice while the party leader is trying to figure out if the rogue has enough int to hit the rune because he didnt recruit a wiz?

The groups nowdays in tempest for the most part are horrid.
I can not blame the individual you reference for doing so.

Every newb in that group probably bought the vale pack before they finished out.

[SquelchHU]

My counter proposal:

Add all your pass lives together and add it to your char level when it comes to ML on items.

That way you can use the items even sooner on your TR's.

You TR'd 6 times? You are crazy and deserve a special reward. Currently level 7? that makes your total level check 13! You can now equip all of your GS items.



mmm sarcasm.

So does that mean Star can use all GS items at level 1? :D

Hey, I'll sign that.

[DragonDrago77]

I agree with the OP.
While the amount of XP needed for a TR is quite high, greensteel at level 12 is just overpowered.
It ruins the purpose of doing a raid if one person can run around and solo it himself.

[patang01]

Why change to ML 16? Because you have a harder time killing something? I might be wrong but you get experience from completing optionals and end and you get loot from opening chests. That won't change no matter who kills the most or least. I know it's fun to kill stuff and as a healer it's kind of boring running behind keeping other people healed, but in the end it's about XP, level up and pull/create items.

I'd love to be the top killer and I have been, even when leveling up with only basic holy burst weapons when there were TR's with mineral II weapons in the mix.

And eventually I'd like to TR and looking forward to use the GS items and weapons I create as early as I can. It's my hard work - and you 'changing' it to ML 16 when I will rarely or ever run with you seems like a little harsh in contrast. One day you'll be top killer with top gear and it'll be because of build, strategy experience and gear. To limit others hard work simply because you'd like to be top dog seems a little strange.

[Cyr]

I dont mind zerging and dont blame the tr's for using the best equipment they can. I blame Turbine for unbalancing the mid level content.

I just dont see the fun in it, like playing butchers path on my 20 sorc, but to each his own.

So you want the game to change to make you feel better about your toon. Your suggestion would hurt TR toons. However, what you may not realize is that the main way that it would hurt them would be just to require that they have more greater bane weapon sets in the mid level range.

The mid level range was from day one a zerg fest. Trial by Fire and Prison of the Planes were two of the most zerged quests in the game. Vol got rather high on that list when it released also. You know what, no one had GS back then. They just pulled out their disruptors, banishers, greater banes, and smiters. Arcanes did exactly the same thing they do now.

People have shown many times that greater bane weapons beat out min 2's for example.

The main thing this suggestion would do is just require more bank space for TR toons.

Put up your own LFM's stating no TR's and your 'problem' is solved. People made these same complaints back in the day about banishers, smiters, and disruptors when they were rare. People just got all upset that someone had something better then them. I'm not saying this is the only cause of your suggestion, but it certainly is driving force behind much of the OP chatter when it comes to gear.

[Bodic]

To the OP seriously its a perk of the TR get over it, and as far as a 1 hit kill ANY lvl12 Assassin can do that with any melee weapon you give her. then uhm Vorpals. I can go on.

Edit: Monk dark punch is lvl9.

[Drfirewater79]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

sorry not reading through this whole thread ...

Min lvl for greensteel is perfect where it is ...

already takes a TR twice as long to level as a regular character they need all the help they can get ...

there are few places where a tr is gonna use greensteel and kill a mob in one hit ...

oh and you can get lvl 8 vorpals (rr) so even a non tr can kill mobs in one hit ...

lighting strike goes off less often then vorpal

as do all the proc effects from greensteel ...

and you can do the raid at lvl 12 so its not just tr's that have the gear at low levels

In fact you could craft all the ingredients and the blank pass it to your lvl 12 fighter and assuming you get all your stones you could have a greensteel weapon tier III crafted after your first Shroud run ...

min II isnt that uber at low levels ... it does less damage then a holy greater bane weapon ... most mobs dont have DR to bypass after lvl 12 cept renders and named/raid bosses.

in fact i would argue that TR's have it worse off then regular characters .. cause a TR will be floating at lvl 14 while you are already 19-20 ..... using TOD rings and IQ items .... and epic stuff ... while they are still using the one or two shroud weapons and items they had to grind for months to get..

only thing that needs to change with greensteel is the need for more weapon types like handwraps ... until that gets done ... they need to leave greensteel alone ...

we have had enough nerfs in the last two updates to last us till next spring (when most of us will be moving on to other mmos anyway cause SWTOR will be out)

[exactor_mortis]

I just dont see the fun in it, like playing butchers path on my 20 sorc, but to each his own.

That's funny because it's the exact opposite of the sentiment expressed in your first post.

You don't have to wait for Turbine to change the ML. Don't want to group with people who are using "overpowered" weapons...don't group with them. Reminds me of an old Groucho Marx joke:

Doctor: What seems to be the problem?

Patient: It hurts when I do this.

Doctor: Then don't do that.

Any other viewpoint is attempting to force someone to play your way. Use DDO. Screen out the OP players. Take on the unguilded, new masses, play your way and have fun with it. Let people who have earned OP weapons and want to do a 6 man zerg-rush do their thing and have their fun. That's the beauty of a highly-instanced game...you don't have to play with anyone you don't want to.

[SquelchHU]

Wouldnt it be kind of ironic if the OP gets to 20 has greensteel TR's and when his TR is level 12 his GS gets nerfed to ML 16? lol

I fixed it for you. :D

[Rav'n]

You must Spread Some Reputation around before giving to Squelchu....

Oh well... have a Virtual cookie until you come off timer....:D

[kernal42]

You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

Daaaang. Gotta revamp Korthos.

[Lorz]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

Dont run with the TR's....stay on the porch.

They earned the GS...and some are ML8! BWHAHAHAHAHA

[Therilith]

/signed, /agreed and /indeed

One player being orders of magnitude more powerful than everyone else in the group isn't fun for anyone.

[Karranor]

Greensteel Blank ML 12
Greensteel T1 ML 14
Greensteel T2 ML 16
Greensteel T3 ML 18
:eek:

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

/signed, /agreed and /indeed

One player being orders of magnitude more powerful than everyone else in the group isn't fun for anyone.

Clearly false. The person who put in the effort to get the nice gear is surely having fun.

And yet their fun is meaningless to you?

Your solution is to take what they have away from them. To force anyone who is in your group to be reduced to the least common denominator?

How about a much more sane solution. Make your own group and put "no twinks" in the lfm.

I know it's not a hateful, spiteful, punitive solution like you want, but it is one that will work.

[moops]

Gather close kiddies. Once upon a time, when you were still a twinkle in the marketing team's eye, there was a level cap of 10. There was only one raid, and you had to walk to it 10 miles uphill...both ways. Most of the time it was closed because something was broken in it. Many heroes secretly rejoiced at the "Tempest Spine is closed" sign on the door, as it was a place of death. A maze that to this day has a dreadful map and if you do not know where you are going, you may end up as a weeping soul stone.

Then they added a DRAGON! (Insert hushed gasps) At first, nobody could kill it, but the people learned the quest and eventually level 7-10s were running it on ELITE! Heroes I tell you, heroes.

Then, much time passed and the cap was raised to 12! And a new raid....THE TITAN! Nobody could beat it and we all spent countless hours trying to learn it. And that warforged titan is the same titan you and your friend kill now with no effort in groups that say "in progress" with only 3-4 people. Oh hail those early heroes.

Soon came adventures in the land of giants in GIANTHOLD and a wasteland of undead and gnolls in the DESERT! *all the wee ones cower in fear* Brave adventurers went into the explorer area and had no idea what was there. Nary a one had any idea of even where the rares were or how to flag for the raids! (eyes open wide!) But those adventurers went time after time into the fray. Learning and gaining experience for those adventures that people solo and zerg now due to the bravery of those who came before them. *excited whispers from the kids*

Over the years, other areas of death and carnage emerged...Until finally the VALE OF TWILIGHT! *screams and hiding of eyes* Yes...it was a time of fear and death. Brave adventurers set out to learn the area and the quests in the vale. Quests filled with darkness, and spiders that were being controlled, and a maze in a mountain that nearly drove them insane! But these adventurers were not to be held back. They learned, and died, and returned and died...finally conquering and entering the 13th Eclipse THE SHROUD! *mouths open wide in disbelief*

Much like the dragon of old, these heroes of ancient history had to learn the intricacies of the Shroud. Attempt upon attempt failed. But your forefathers would not give up. In the end, many an LFM went up for "Shroud group levels 13-16?"! Your ancestors ventured into the Shroud in droves time after time, well under level 16!!!! It's true. Just ask great-great grandfather. They built their greensteel weapons at altars with tear filled eyes. Pride and relief in their hearts. They knew that they finally had family heirlooms and weapons of power that would protect them for the foes to come.

Now a group of young guns has come and want to take these weapons away! *angry faces and looks of disbelief* They claim the old ones have no right to have such powerful weapons when they are still buying theirs from the crooked vendors and the oppressive auction house. But the armor and steel earned by "those who came before" are their right. They earned those with their blood, and sweat and tears and sometimes with their impatient and drunk guild members shouting in their ears until their bloodshot eyes bled! Instead of earning their own badges of honor, they seek to strip them from the ones who spent their time, effort, lifeblood, and 14.99 a month to get them.

I say no! Let us not defile our history. Let us not soil the memory of vast battlegrounds filled with soul stones. Let the new ones earn their own keep and weapons of power and celebrate the victories of the veterans of Stormreach! (And spare ourselves countless ragequit posts!)

So endeth the lesson.

***********************************

Now leave my greensteel alone.

+1 when I can give more rep. . .

[moops]

*loving the fact that people are always *****ing about Turbine making the game easy mode, then when someone suggests something that would make it less easy for vets without touching new players, everyone digs into him*

The Problem the OP is having, happened in the same quests b4 greensteel came out. Some people just zerg better than others, it's knowledge usually. You could take my green steel away and it would not make TRing any harder for me, and if I wanted I could still zerg ahead and kill everything faster.

Lets not forget that once you get to Amrath and IQ, most people stop using Greensteel and use Vorpals in the quests and on the Battlefield--weapons you can get at lvl 10--even lvl 8 ones floating around.

That said, many of us sat around for a mod that came almost a YEAR late--crafting in the shroud kept us somewhat busy. . .you can think of it as our reward for sticking around and not quitting the game while giving Turbine enough cash to keep it alfoat--OR maybe since I and others spent millions in plat trying to figure the raid out when it first came out and getting our groups thru it so that we could experiment with recipes, we deserve to keep our items--those recipies were not known b4 hand--many people put alot of hard work, time, and money into finding them out for you.

It's a slippery slope, you start with this, then I'm sure Dragon items and DQ items would be the next to get bumped up--because many of those are overpowered as well.

Almost every MMO i've played allowed players to use their uber items in the next life--or even on other new alts. ..

The solution is so simple without P'Oing alot of people off--the OP just needs to put up an LFM that says "No Zergin" A TR usually wont join that.

[Therilith]

I think a lot of people seem to be confusing "fun" with "the TR grind is boring and therefore anything that will help me get through it faster is fun". The solution isn't to make dungeon running trivial (and even more boring), but rather to reduce the amount of grinding needed.


Clearly false. The person who put in the effort to get the nice gear is surely having fun.
Really? I have played many horribly imbalanced games both on- and offline, and being overpowered is never fun for more than about five minutes.
Maybe you're right though, and every game should just give everyone permanent godmode. Then we'll all have fun all the time.


And yet their fun is meaningless to you?
Everyone has their own definition of fun. Mine is a fair and balanced game.


Your solution is to take what they have away from them.
If something is too powerful it has to be nerfed.


How about a much more sane solution. Make your own group and put "no twinks" in the lfm.
"I think this part of the game is extremely imbalanced."
"Ignore it and go do something else."


I know it's not a hateful, spiteful, punitive solution like you want
What the hell is your problem?

[Mudcnd]

Its not a big deal lvl to 20 , craft some stuff and then tr its not a huge deal.
Sorry that you seem to think what others are doing is affecting your game.

Make lfms "slow" "no zerging" "no spoilers"
And trust me , you will not have to deal with a single person with greensteel.


Well said Hex

My newest TR does not have greensteel , and yet i still play him , sure i wish i had some but its not huge.

[Junts]

The Problem the OP is having, happened in the same quests b4 greensteel came out. Some people just zerg better than others, it's knowledge usually. You could take my green steel away and it would not make TRing any harder for me, and if I wanted I could still zerg ahead and kill everything faster.

Lets not forget that once you get to Amrath and IQ, most people stop using Greensteel and use Vorpals in the quests and on the Battlefield--weapons you can get at lvl 10--even lvl 8 ones floating around.

That said, many of us sat around for a mod that came almost a YEAR late--crafting in the shroud kept us somewhat busy. . .you can think of it as our reward for sticking around and not quitting the game while giving Turbine enough cash to keep it alfoat--OR maybe since I and others spent millions in plat trying to figure the raid out when it first came out and getting our groups thru it so that we could experiment with recipes, we deserve to keep our items--those recipies were not known b4 hand--many people put alot of hard work, time, and money into finding them out for you.

It's a slippery slope, you start with this, then I'm sure Dragon items and DQ items would be the next to get bumped up--because many of those are overpowered as well.

Almost every MMO i've played allowed players to use their uber items in the next life--or even on other new alts. ..

The solution is so simple without P'Oing alot of people off--the OP just needs to put up an LFM that says "No Zergin" A TR usually wont join that.

They do? short of elite runs, even my s/b toon would rather use his lightning strike khopesh than vorpal in Amrath, and my dps focused characters might as well not have vorpal weapons at all, for the use they get.

[Junts]

I think a lot of people seem to be confusing "fun" with "the TR grind is boring and therefore anything that will help me get through it faster is fun". The solution isn't to make dungeon running trivial (and even more boring), but rather to reduce the amount of grinding needed.


Really? I have played many horribly imbalanced games both on- and offline, and being overpowered is never fun for more than about five minutes.
Maybe you're right though, and every game should just give everyone permanent godmode. Then we'll all have fun all the time.


Everyone has their own definition of fun. Mine is a fair and balanced game.


If something is too powerful it has to be nerfed.


"I think this part of the game is extremely imbalanced."
"Ignore it and go do something else."


What the hell is your problem?

Hi. Greensteel isn't what makes the difference between my 36 pt tr and a new 28 pt build unfair.

Its hte other 25 raid items, the millions of plat in consumables, and, for petes sake, the extra 8 build points!

Greensteel is an excellent weapon, but its hardly different than the hardcore twink items people would be using at those levels. There's just no difference between the rogue with a min2 rapier and the rogue using my holy icy burst rapier of greater giantbane to carve through ogres and trolls in von3 at level 10.

In fact, my rapier does more damage.

You shouldn't expect tr'd characters to be playing on the same field with non-tr'd characters. By definition, they aren't.

[Thucydides04]

Stop calling for nerfs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no substitute for practice. TR's have had a good bit f practice, and those that are on life 3+ have done some serious grinding. Thus they know what is going on. GS doesn't make them overpowered, they're ability/knowledge is what makes them better.

When I TR'd my main into a barbarian, he ran around with GS rapiers because it was what I had, and he sucked. Next barb life he gets met. of PG or some such Great Axe. Using GS on him was a pain.

[Velexia]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

My rogue did that without greensteel on her first run through the game before TR even existed... so...

[thisgamesull]

Stop calling for nerfs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no substitute for practice. TR's have had a good bit f practice, and those that are on life 3+ have done some serious grinding. Thus they know what is going on. GS doesn't make them overpowered, they're ability/knowledge is what makes them better.

When I TR'd my main into a barbarian, he ran around with GS rapiers because it was what I had, and he sucked. Next barb life he gets met. of PG or some such Great Axe. Using GS on him was a pain.

Very True The GS items and weapons is not what makes us Zergaholics its the 300+ times that we did them

[Zombiekenny]

Get a character to 20, run 50 or 60 shrouds, get a few items crafted, and TR. Then, when you get to 11 leave the accessories in the bank. When you get to 12, leave the weapons in the bank. Once you get 16, you can take em out, there you go, your minimum level was effectively 16.
Seriously, its a huge grind to get them, its a huge grind to TR, having them with a TR makes the TR grind a little more bearable. Leave em be.

[moops]

They do? short of elite runs, even my s/b toon would rather use his lightning strike khopesh than vorpal in Amrath, and my dps focused characters might as well not have vorpal weapons at all, for the use they get.

Sorry I do not know many S&B, when I solo sins and kill all mobs with my 2wf Ranger, it goes significantly faster if I use vorpals rather than if I use my lightning 2-s maybe you have a better proc rate than I do. Also in the other quests often times in pugs Ill be quite ahead in the kill count while others are using Lightning 2's or Min 2 or Radience, and people will be like what are you using? LOL, Of course some quests have mix mobs and I have to switch out.

I love my lightnings 2's becuase thare are fun, but even in most raids, we still use vorpals on trash simply cuz it's faster.

[sephiroth1084]

The Problem the OP is having, happened in the same quests b4 greensteel came out. Some people just zerg better than others, it's knowledge usually. You could take my green steel away and it would not make TRing any harder for me, and if I wanted I could still zerg ahead and kill everything faster.

And that's really the strongest argument against changing the ML on greensteel items: people will be zerging ahead and completing quests quickly and easily without all the fancy gear, because they've been doing it since before the fancy gear existed!

It doesn't matter if your weapon does 20 more damage a hit than the next guy's if you don't know what you're doing. Similarly, the guy with the weaker weapon, but who knows the quest, and knows what they can handle, will likely have a smoother, much faster run.

[Lord_WC]

Everyone has their own definition of fun. Mine is a fair and balanced game.


If something is too powerful it has to be nerfed.


I have a lvl12 and a lvl20 toon. They really should nerf levelling up, because my lvl20 is so much more powerful.

Also, I really find it annoying that i couldn't grab a SoS yet, because I didn't have the luck. I think they should nerf that as well.

Also, Therilith has more posts than me. It is imbalanced, please nerf him.

If you think gs is inbalanced, make one and try it out. Don't be surprised if you find out that they are not the 'I win' button you thought, but the experience as a player you get while making them is.

Edit: Also you really are upset because of a thing you can get as well? If Turbine was to take out gs crafting but leaving the already made gs items in the game, yes that would cause an imbalance. But the situation now is like if you'd whine about that someone gets better random drops than you.

[Thucydides04]

I

If something is too powerful it has to be nerfed.



Can't nerf skills and practice.

[exactor_mortis]

This is still going? Really? It's kind of amazing the lengths people will go to in order to force other people to do things their way. Sad and amazing.

[Targoth1]

You don't group with people who like to run ahead instead of play as a team and your problem is solved. There are a lot of people that way, you just don't often meet them in a pug as they only play with other good players.

You mean they usually stick to other people with overpowered twinks.

zerging ahead and killing everything by virtue of godlike gear is not a skill. Teamwork is.

[Targoth1]

If you absolutely don't want to group with overpowered characters, make your own LFMs that say so. A simple "Taking it slow", or "No zerging" is likely to keep 99% of TR characters away. Nice thing about TRs is they have little wings. If you see wings, hit the "kick" button. Problem solved.

This is what I do.

The simple words "No Zerging" keeps 90% of the idiots out of my groups.

[Targoth1]

I agree with the OP.
IMO, greensteel is grossly overpowered at level 12.
I understand the grind is long on TR's but frankly having GS at
12 isn't really going to speed up the levelling process all that much.
Unless you're counting up minutes and multiplying by quests and levels.
If that's the case, good luck with your work away from work(i hope) that you don't
get paid for.

Greensteel is not just overpowered at level 12.

Greensteel is overpowered. It makes the Artifacts in AD&D look like vendor junk.

[Targoth1]

I guess you want vorpal weapons removed too since someone can kill all the mobs with a couple lucky rolls before you get to do anything

if it really bothers you, solo with a hireling

making greensteel and TR are both a ton of work and the people who do it should reap the rewards

By being able to destroy the fun for anyone who groups with them?

Why not just hand them a tactical nuke usable once every 15 minutes. Enter dungeon, push button, win, AFK until nuke resets.

[Cyr]

/signed, /agreed and /indeed

One player being orders of magnitude more powerful than everyone else in the group isn't fun for anyone.

An incredibly weak argument.

I would state that plenty of people have fun when being more powerful or less powerful then others in a quest. I know I have fun playing my horrible first toon in epics with some of the best geared toons in the game and they are having fun too.

By the same logic whenever a first level toon wearing starter rags joins your party everyone in party should be reduced in power to match that toon.

You can not equalize for the lowest common denominator. Someone is always going to be gimped compared to someone else. There is tons of gear optimization in the game. There is tons of ways to screw over your character's build also.

[exactor_mortis]

By the same logic whenever a first level toon wearing starter rags joins your party everyone in party should be reduced in power to match that toon.

And further extrapolating, you should always play poorly when grouped with a new player that doesn't know much about the game. You should exhibit the same level of ineptitude so that they get to have fun. :p

[Lorien_the_First_One]

You mean they usually stick to other people with overpowered twinks.

zerging ahead and killing everything by virtue of godlike gear is not a skill. Teamwork is.

We destroyed those quests before GS and before icy burst (which frankly is far more overpowered at mid levels than the MinIIs most TRs carry)

[Cyr]

And further extrapolating, you should always play poorly when grouped with a new player that doesn't know much about the game. You should exhibit the same level of ineptitude so that they get to have fun. :p

As this could not be enforced I suppose it would have to be as follows...

If anyone in the party dies more then others in the party a hit point, AC, and saving throw penalty would be thrown on those who have died less.

Everyone, but the lowest kill count person in the party should have a damage decrease debuff applied.

....

This way lies madness.

[aldan]

Simple fix:

Start your own LFM and put. No greensteel or TR's

or put Dungeon crawl or something to let people know this is your playstyle.

Yes there are TRs with greensteel, this will not change. I do understand your frustration because you cant feel like your contributing.

Join groups you like or start your own, thats all I can say. Cheers.

[exactor_mortis]

As this could not be enforced I suppose it would have to be as follows...

If anyone in the party dies more then others in the party a hit point, AC, and saving throw penalty would be thrown on those who have died less.

Everyone, but the lowest kill count person in the party should have a damage decrease debuff applied.

....

This way lies madness.

Right. Because we can't let people play the way they want to, they must be forced to the lowest common denominator. I forgot.

So, if one person misses, everyone in the party will miss. After the first few combats, the hit/miss ratio will be normalized with adjustments along the way.

The lowest BAB and spell pen will be shared among all participants in the group.

Oh, and since we can't take the chance of people organizing into groups where higher skilled and/or statted characters group together, there will be no party invites. You just join a queue and your teammates are randomly chosen from all the people on all the servers who want to run that quest.

:p

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Oh, and since we can't take the chance of people organizing into groups where higher skilled and/or statted characters group together, there will be no party invites. You just join a queue and your teammates are randomly chosen from all the people on all the servers who want to run that quest.

:p

Don't laugh, I've seen this seriously suggested several times since the game went F2P.

[justagame]

Ignoring the "I don't have it, so no one else who's earned it should have it either" aspect of the OP, there's another factor to consider.

Unless I'm mistaken, ML to get into the Vale is level 12. That means that theoretically, you could make a weapon that you wouldn't be able to use for 4 more levels.

Think doing shroud at level 12 is ridiculous? Think again. Before the level cap increase, shroud runs were often levels 14-16, sometimes even 13-16. And those runs included not just normal, but hard and elite. If a group of 13-16 can do shroud on normal, it's not that much more of a stretch to think a group of 12's can do it too. A bit less sp on the casters, but all the necessary spells. And instead of +5 metalline of PG, you're swinging a +4 metalline of PG.

So unless you're going to restrict vale quests and shroud to level 16, it's preposterous to restrict the items crafted in said area to level 16.

One more point to clarify: Easy button =/= something that makes the game easier. Easy button = something UNEARNED that bypasses the need to accomplish something or meet a requirement.

[Stormanne]

In all of this back and forth, I think we are forgetting something...

We keep informing the "anti-greensteel" people to form there own groups. Most of them are probably the same people who stand in the Harbor/Market/Meridia screaming in general chat that they are looking for groups. They don't have the initiative to use the LFM panel properly and lay out the parameters for their groups. That, or they just don't have the chutzpah to actually lead a group and need someone to lead them.

And the highly ironic thing about all of this, the OP has already said that the only reason he wants this nerf is because he doesn't have greensteel yet. He's one of those nasty little hanger-ons that feels entitled to be on par with the top tier players/people even though he has not put the time in. And if he doesn't have something, no one should. Well OP, you and everyone like you needs to get over yourselves. If you want something, earn it and leave those of us that have earned it already the hell alone.

[Darkrok]

If you are not happy with your kill count, practice. It is not all in the loot. The majority of it is in knowing the quests.

I went from fighter to monk on my TR. I outkilled everybody levelling up to about 16 with NO monk loot from my past life.

Exactly. It's not all about the loot. I led the kill count in my first TS on my new baby bard (level 10 at the time). My gear of note was a Blademark's Docent, the 5 charge deathblock necklace from necro quests, a +4 str item, a +3 frost falchion of righteousness, and a +1 greatsword of smiting. Obviously I have some other gear but those are the only items that really mattered as far as leading the kill counts. I was displacing myself, stoneskin as well when appropriate, and 20 resist from pots where appropriate. I could therefore run ahead with impunity without worrying if I was going to die (since I wasn't). If there were a ton of enemies and I was way ahead of the group then I'd sing an enthrall song to stop them all in their tracks. The only thing that slowed me down was the requests from the group to slow down...which the vanguard (about 3 or 4 of us) heeded until the group caught up at which point we would put the pedal back to the metal.

All of that gear that I listed (other than the greatsword of smiting which would take a lot of luck) was acquired during THIS life. I'd probably have to tone down my liberal use of resist 20 pots if I didn't have another toon feeding me the plat but honestly this gear isn't hard to get. It's the knowledge that leads to knowing what gear to get that takes time to acquire.

A well built and well played toon will lead the kill count against and average built and average played toon unless the well built and played toon isn't trying to kill anything.

As for GS being ML:16 I've got to disagree. Not because it affects me or because of what it means for TR's but because level 16 used to be the end game. People less than level 16 used to run shrouds. They got GS's before 16. Just as 20 would be an artificial ML for ToD rings (people DO get them before 20 without TR'ing), 16 would be an artificial ML for GS. 13/14 would be an acceptable level based on the difficulty to acquire it on a non-TR. I'd agree that 11/12 strikes me as low.

That said, they're not going to change it and I don't mind it being 11/12 as a reward for people that go through the arduous process of TR'ing. It would just be more appropriate at 13/14.

[SquelchHU]

Greensteel is not just overpowered at level 12.

Greensteel is overpowered. It makes the Artifacts in AD&D look like vendor junk.

The artifacts in AD&D are vendor junk. And this is regardless of if you compare it to GS, which has been compared to lootgen plenty of times already or not.


An incredibly weak argument.

I would state that plenty of people have fun when being more powerful or less powerful then others in a quest. I know I have fun playing my horrible first toon in epics with some of the best geared toons in the game and they are having fun too.

By the same logic whenever a first level toon wearing starter rags joins your party everyone in party should be reduced in power to match that toon.

You can not equalize for the lowest common denominator. Someone is always going to be gimped compared to someone else. There is tons of gear optimization in the game. There is tons of ways to screw over your character's build also.

This. Gotta love the lowest common denominator mindset. 'He's better than me, nerf him!'

Instead of 'He's better than me, how can I be just as good or better?'

[Bosco]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

http://www.thecampofthesaints.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Eric-Cartman-Screw-You-Hippie-560.jpg

[rest]

My posts are disappearing again!

Anyway I disagree. I worked hard for all my green steel. I LOVE that my wizard just got his conc opp goggles and his min II boots. Is it trivializing the content? Not any more than me knowing whats going on and what spells I need for the quests.

Do the people I run with get cheated out of an experience because I am blowing through content? No, because I don't pug. I run with like minded people from chat channels or my guild. We're all TRs. We all want to get it done quickly and easily. Thats what we do. Thats how we enjoy playing.

It's also awesome to be able to wear your raid loot at level. Took me 40 DQ runs to get my torc. Equipping it at level 11 is AMAZING.

So after 40 Dqs I shouldn't be allowed to wear my torc at level because it's too powerful? After 40 shrouds I shouldn't be allowed to wear my greensteel? Lame. I worked for these and I want to enjoy the fruits of my labor.

Haters gonna hate.

[Kalari]

My posts are disappearing again!

Anyway I disagree. I worked hard for all my green steel. I LOVE that my wizard just got his conc opp goggles and his min II boots. Is it trivializing the content? Not any more than me knowing whats going on and what spells I need for the quests.

Do the people I run with get cheated out of an experience because I am blowing through content? No, because I don't pug. I run with like minded people from chat channels or my guild. We're all TRs. We all want to get it done quickly and easily. Thats what we do. Thats how we enjoy playing.

It's also awesome to be able to wear your raid loot at level. Took me 40 DQ runs to get my torc. Equipping it at level 11 is AMAZING.

So after 40 Dqs I shouldn't be allowed to wear my torc at level because it's too powerful? After 40 shrouds I shouldn't be allowed to wear my greensteel? Lame. I worked for these and I want to enjoy the fruits of my labor.

Haters gonna hate.

Hehe careful Rest most will hate us because we dont pug no more. Dont you know Vets should only play a certain way any other way is wrong.

Zerging= wrong all players must take it slow because our devs cant keep up.
TR with greensteels= wrong in fact if you got rid of zerging and super leveling and played as slow flower sniffers youd probably never have this issue.
Not hand holding/making our own groups with clear lfm's= Come on dont you know we are only here to make groups for other players? Screw our time our subscription fees, every time we log on its to please other players. We are there to coddle, hand hold, take abuse and smile and say "thank you sir may I have another" to every type including Noobs which for some reason people think means new player so meh whatever.

Either way reading the forums again has taught me all that. Heaven forbid we want to play the game we pay for our way it in turn is ruining the game for everyone who has the option to avoid us. So basically if we group with you were wrong if we exclude you were wrong. Hooray for the bad guys :D:rolleyes:

[rest]

Hehe careful Rest most will hate us because we dont pug no more. Dont you know Vets should only play a certain way any other way is wrong.

Zerging= wrong all players must take it slow because our devs cant keep up.
TR with greensteels= wrong in fact if you got rid of zerging and super leveling and played as slow flower sniffers youd probably never have this issue.
Not hand holding/making our own groups with clear lfm's= Come on dont you know we are only here to make groups for other players? Screw our time our subscription fees, every time we log on its to please other players. We are there to coddle, hand hold, take abuse and smile and say "thank you sir may I have another" to every type including Noobs which for some reason people think means new player so meh whatever.

Either way reading the forums again has taught me all that. Heaven forbid we want to play the game we pay for our way it in turn is ruining the game for everyone who has the option to avoid us. So basically if we group with you were wrong if we exclude you were wrong. Hooray for the bad guys :D:rolleyes:

Lol that's funny. You ever run with Mani? He calls me the bad guy in a Tony Montana voice ever since I yelled at some drunk ******* in a VoD run like 6 months ago. :D

[Kalari]

Lol that's funny. You ever run with Mani? He calls me the bad guy in a Tony Montana voice ever since I yelled at some drunk ******* in a VoD run like 6 months ago. :D

lol possibly im just trying to figure if I was the drunk you yelled at 6 months ago LOL :p

Nah cant be im more of the laugh at drunk type then yell at at least from what I can remember..which isnt much :o

[rest]

lol possibly im just trying to figure if I was the drunk you yelled at 6 months ago LOL :p

Nah cant be im more of the laugh at drunk type then yell at at least from what I can remember..which isnt much :o

No it wasn't you. Remind me later I'll tell you who it was ;)

[Indoran]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

you dont need to run with tr's ^^ go make your own min2...

[Ollathir]

/signed, /agreed and /indeed

One player being orders of magnitude more powerful than everyone else in the group isn't fun for anyone.



Common sense dictates, you are not forced to play with anyone in the game. If you lack the ability or motivation to post your own "Looking for Group", whos fault is that? Of course its easier to cry and try to average eveything out, "to a least common denominater", as stated. But how in the world could anyone above the age of 2 believe that would be the better way to handle the situation?


Basically you have a couple of kids in a race. One kid wins, the other kid starts crying, "His shoes are better than mine." Coach goes over, smacks the kid that won over the head and tells him to take off his shoes. They run the race again. Oddly enough the same kid wins again. So the cryer does what he does best, "What is it this time?", the coach asks. "He ran faster than me." (Sounding a bit like Ralphie from the Simpsons.) Coach smacks the winner in the head again and decides the other kid is just too talented so he ties the winners hands behind his back. They run the race again. This time, the kid with his hands behind his back doesn't win. Does he cry? No. He starts practicing, learning to run with his hands behind his back for a couple of reasons: (1)he's a winner, and will always be one, (2)now he really likes hearing that other kid cry.

In laymens terms talented players will always find a way come out on top, (and only a fool would think I mean strictly by kill counts). Coming out on top can be equated with, fast leveling, few to no deaths in raids, capable of beating content in game without the DDO store, etc. And they will do this no matter the mechanics, and they will find some way to have fun doing it, because they spend their time learning to do it.

The less talented or impatient players will try to change the world first before attempting to better themselves, and adapt. They will always find something to cry about because there will always be someone on top out there seemingly stealing their fun away.

[exactor_mortis]

Don't laugh, I've seen this seriously suggested several times since the game went F2P.

Somehow, I fail to be surprised.

Saddened...but not surprised.

[exactor_mortis]

Common sense dictates, you are not forced to play with anyone in the game. If you lack the ability or motivation to post your own "Looking for Group", whos fault is that? Of course its easier to cry and try to average eveything out, "to a least common denominater", as stated. But how in the world could anyone above the age of 2 believe that would be the better way to handle the situation?.

I know, right? It's been suggested many times in the thread.

I even suggested the use of myDDO as a tool for screening potential group mates. Perhaps it's a bit perverse, but I rather like the idea of someone saying "I just checked your myDDO, you're too uber for our group, sorry" to balance all the instances of discrimination against people who aren't well enough equipped for the group leader.

[QuantumFX]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

So… what you’re saying is that Inevitable Dominion monks and Carnifex should be removed from DDO?

[Reos]

Sorry OP, but you're way off base. The self-centeredness of your post is thinly veiled. FYI I ran some quests in GH not long ago with my WF Pally, no TR, no GS, and he was the lowest lev guy in the group. And yet I still topped the kill count over a TR'd fighter with dual Khopesh. So it's definitely not the weapons, it's the player.

[Cyr]

So… what you’re saying is that Inevitable Dominion monks and Carnifex should be removed from DDO?

Don't forget level 7 wizards and level 8 sorcs.

[Gleep_Wurp]

just because you're gimped everyone else should be also? lol too funny.just group with non tr's.cant find a group like that? maybe try creating your own.use myddo and pick the lamest gimped toons you can find and have fun.

[Rafal]

Why is it fun though? Do you regularly play level 8 quest on your capped toon? Funny how people constantly wine about ddo easy mode and then have a fit when a suggestion is made to tone down the easy.

/not signed
When I am leveling my 50th toon especially now with TR levels of XP needed I want to get through all the low quests as soon as I can as I played them way too often already. I mostly solo way past lvl 10 as well.
If you want to tone down start posting LFM for new players and stick with them. I can assure you I would not try to get into your group to kill everything and ruin your experience. I can do it myself without worrying about people dying or getting lost.
And btw, I do not say I am some kind of greatest, awesome player. I just did Wateworks so many times I do not care about it anymore.

Oh, and my +3 Icy Burst GA ML 2 is way more overpowered then GS at ML 12.

[QuantumFX]

Don't forget level 7 wizards and level 8 sorcs.

But that way lies madness…

BTW: Best part about this thread: I bet the OP has absolutely no clue about how overpowered, for it’s level, a lot of the level 9 raid gear is. I know that the most game changing piece of gear on my main character is the Seven Fingered Gloves.

[Hokonoso]

love how all my posts were deleted from this thread. i guess even the mods cant handle the truth, fortunately i was quoted a few times but i digress, the truth hurts and that is just life...

[Targoth1]

Icyburst can destroy low level content as easily than GS and it can do it from L1 and not just for a couple mid levels. Are you recommending an ML increase for all icyburst weapons?

Yes.

If it is so overpowered as to trivialize content, nerf it into dust.

[Targoth1]

Why not just propose you don't get your TR cache until you cap then? This idea is rediculous. I can go take a metaline of PG weapon and throw icy burst on it and it is probably as good as a min 2. But I can find ml4 metalline of pg weapons. Furthermore, I have taken holy of PG weapons and added icy burst to them, which I have for each level from 6-10... for trash these weapons are better than min 2.

The fact that I know how to control agro and kill stuff quickly has no bearing on my min 2 or extra 45 hps or my haste clickies, i still zerg everything before level 11 and 12. Maybe we should take away firewall too lol.

/not signed

They did take away firewall.

A lot of content is fire immune. Show me content that is min II immune.

[Targoth1]

*loving the fact that people are always *****ing about Turbine making the game easy mode, then when someone suggests something that would make it less easy for vets without touching new players, everyone digs into him*

I believe the term you are looking for is hypocrisy, and this thread is rife with it.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

They did take away firewall.

A lot of content is fire immune. Show me content that is min II immune.

Min II is of little value content from L12-15 as there is little that has DR that can't also be bypassed easily be junk weapons and a good GB weapon often does more damage.

[Targoth1]

Min II is of little value content from L12-15 as there is little that has DR that can't also be bypassed easily be junk weapons and a good GB weapon often does more damage.

But Min II bypasses all of it, every bit, while doing significantly more damage. All without having to constantly swap weapons mid-fight to make sure you have the right one equipped.

[Rafal]

But Min II bypasses all of it, every bit, while doing significantly more damage. All without having to constantly swap weapons mid-fight to make sure you have the right one equipped.

Not really. Min 2 let's you be lazy and use one weapon instead of 10 or 15 which could deal more damage depending on situation. I could have much more weapons but I prefer to have one which is quite good in most, not all, situations and save some extra clicks and backpack space.

And look at monks. There is no GS weapon for monks and they still run like crazy killing everything and the only moment you see limitations on your monk is in the end game. Unless you screw up your build of course. :)

[ShadowHand2]

If the OP ever made a TR he would not make the mistake and post something like this. What gear someone has does not make them better then players, but it helps a party in the end if things get killed and the quest is completed. After all, when you quest with others the end result is success and completion of the quest/raid. How you get there should be of little of concern as each person/player has their place in the party. Most TR's just want the da** quest done and all xp squeezed out of it. My advice would be to form your own group and make clear in a LFM your dislike of TR's and that they need not apply....I am sure you will make tons of friends:)

[Quarterling]

Also keep in mind that back before Mod 9 people were running the Shroud Raid at levels 15 to 16. Some were even good enough to go as low as 13 or 14 if they were perfectly coordinated.

The greensteel items were designed around those levels and those quests. Just because the level cap goes up should not mean that the minimum level should also go up as well for GS items.

[RoboVanguard]

But Min II bypasses all of it, every bit, while doing significantly more damage. All without having to constantly swap weapons mid-fight to make sure you have the right one equipped.

Actually mineral II doesn't bypass several monster DRs:

Clay golems have no material DR bypass.
Flesh golems have unbreakable DR.
Maruts have chaotic DR. You must use a chaotically aligned weapon in order to break it, which minII doesn't have.
Some bosses have unbreakable DR such as the earth elemental in Shroud Part II.

Clay golems and Maruts can be found in desecrated temple of vol. Flesh golems in Fleshmaker's laboratory. Go run those quests if you don't want to see mineral IIs.

[Matuse]

There's a wide assortment of monsters whose DR a Mineral weapon will not break. They revolve around either alignments (Marut's, Tharaak Hounds), or attack types that your weapon doesn't possess (Slash/Blunt/Pierce). There's also Byeshk and Mithril which while penetrated by Mineral, are pointless since the monsters that have that DR are so gimptastic.

Then of course, there's the super uber wisdom of hitting rust monsters and oozes with your Mineral weapon.

Quick comparison, what does more damage against devils, a +5 holy silver weapon, or a Mineral II? Answer: For most weapons, there's basically no difference at all! The greensteel will hit for a whopping 1 extra point on average, except greataxes and greatswords who will do a little better. +5 holy silver is min-level what? Oh yes...12. Better raise the min level on all of those. ZOMG overpowered! A +5 holy silver of pure good is doing MORE damage than Min II, and only ML:14. It's player power run amok! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! If you're not fighting pit fiends or horned devils, you don't even need the silver! Holy/Pure Good should be banned because they inflict too much damage. For sure.

But wait, it gets worse. At level 14, Paladins start using Holy Sword which gives a +5 Holy Burst Cold Iron Silver Byeshk weapon...ohnoz, the poor monsters, how will they ever survive!? They...WON'T! NERRF NERF NERF NERF!!!

Shroud weapons become available at 12, what becomes available to wizards and clerics at level 13? Finger of Death and Destruction. Hmmm. Probably should shift those spells up to level 9 so they appear at level 17. Or remove them entirely, cause you can't be 1-hit killing stuff!

[PopeJual]

Vorpal weapons start showing up in significant numbers around ML 10.

Can someone tell me if that's more or less than 12. I honestly forget.

[Akrilus]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

/yawn

[Esserbe]

Raise ML of all plain +1 vorpals and paras to at least 25 so people can't use them to triviliaze lvl 10-12 content! Well said OP, why in my campaign people used Masterwork Shortspears, at level 15! That's what should be available here.

[Soleran]

I dont care if GS is changed to 16 or not but it's laughable to hear ppl defend it at lvl 12, it is hugely overpowered at that lvl, its a fact.

[Morningfrost]

Actually mineral II doesn't bypass several monster DRs:

Clay golems have no material DR bypass.
Flesh golems have unbreakable DR.


Clay Golems should be Bludgeoning + Magic and Flesh Golems Bludgeoning + Adamantine, am I wrong? I'm quite sure my monk unarmed attacks bypass Flesh Golems DR past level 16.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I dont care if GS is changed to 16 or not but it's laughable to hear ppl defend it at lvl 12, it is hugely overpowered at that lvl, its a fact.

And yet before the cap went up and the bonus for going into content above your level was removed, people EARNED their GS at L12-14. So if its quite possible to earn it at L12 why not use it then?

On my last TR I didn't even use my MinII that early, my Icyburst Holy of PG weapon did more damage in most situations and I could pick it up sooner.

[Bunker]

So current base GS blanks are lvl 12.

Blank: lvl 12
Tier 1: lvl 14
Tier 2: lvl 16
Tier 3: lvl 18 (matches ToD rings, ie. monks)

Do I want this changed? No. Is it worth considering? Possibly.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

So current base GS blanks are lvl 12.

Blank: lvl 12
Tier 1: lvl 14
Tier 2: lvl 16
Tier 3: lvl 18 (matches ToD rings, ie. monks)

Do I want this changed? No. Is it worth considering? Possibly.

Way way wrong. T2 weapons barely (and not always) overpower L12 randomly generated weapons, and are less powerful than L12 randomly generated weapons with Icy Burst Crafting added.

[Bunker]

Way way wrong. T2 weapons barely (and not always) overpower L12 randomly generated weapons, and are less powerful than L12 randomly generated weapons with Icy Burst Crafting added.

That is true.

What if they reverted back to the original lvls. Making them scale: 8/10/12/14. Level 14 being the final tier. That bumps up the tier III by 2 lvls.

I guess I can see some ppls views on when grouped with a TR the wields GS. I say that is the 1 small benifit of a TR, combating those large XP jumps they have to handle, so having some nice gear is good to have.

IDK, personally I don't see what the issue is. I like my lvl 8 lightning strike longsword. :)

[Kromize]

A while ago I posted that green steel should be restricted. I concluded that people should be restricted to only 1 cleanser from a 20th reward, and that weapons should act like items in that they suck your life when yo have more than one equipped(unless it's cleansed). This would effectively reduce the amount of green steel people used, without gimping it completely.

However!

Now that we have all this 'epic' loot, and the risia crafting(that added nothing to the ml, and created way overpowered items for their levels), it would be bad to do that now. It seems that instead of nerfing green steel when it arguably needed it, they decided to add things to give everything else a power boost.

I'm not going to say whether what they have done is right or wrong, just, I would have done it differently.

[Visty]

Actually mineral II doesn't bypass several monster DRs:

Clay golems have no material DR bypass.
Flesh golems have unbreakable DR.
Maruts have chaotic DR. You must use a chaotically aligned weapon in order to break it, which minII doesn't have.
Some bosses have unbreakable DR such as the earth elemental in Shroud Part II.

Clay golems and Maruts can be found in desecrated temple of vol. Flesh golems in Fleshmaker's laboratory. Go run those quests if you don't want to see mineral IIs.

fleshgolems have DR/adamantine afaik

at least i got all red numbers with my ada greatsword

[SquelchHU]

Actually mineral II doesn't bypass several monster DRs:

Clay golems have no material DR bypass.
Flesh golems have unbreakable DR.
Maruts have chaotic DR. You must use a chaotically aligned weapon in order to break it, which minII doesn't have.
Some bosses have unbreakable DR such as the earth elemental in Shroud Part II.

Clay golems and Maruts can be found in desecrated temple of vol. Flesh golems in Fleshmaker's laboratory. Go run those quests if you don't want to see mineral IIs.

Clay golems = bludgeoning and ADAMANTINE. So yes, a Min 2 would work as long as it is a warhammer, maul, etc.


Vorpal weapons start showing up in significant numbers around ML 10.

Can someone tell me if that's more or less than 12. I honestly forget.

Um I dunno lol.

Maybe you should use a random number in the range of 1-20 to determine it?

[redgod]

Lol, yes how on earth can it effect me when I join a tempest spine raid and a guy runs ahead with dual lit ii's killing everything before I even get there? This is how the game should be played? Turbine should just add a /follow command and I can go watch tv while my toon completes quest.

I suppose you are used to being carried through quests for loot and xp. I find it fun to contribute and have a little challenge when I play.



Hold on and let me do some self reflecting .......

Ommmmmmmmmm..................Ommmmmmmmmmm......... .....Ommmmmmmm

Ok, I was right.


sad very sad

you should concider the years of play experience of player and quests you are running i guarentee they could give a min 2 at level 8 to half the players on my server and they wouldent be able to compete at all with the truely experienced.

concider this we have 2-3+ years playing. we have millions in plat and gear. we have run every quest with every class to the point of memorization.

changing gs ml wont change that, it will just make things harder for you.

run with newer people, learn togeather, start a guild. these are things you can do to control your ingame experience.
whining because you cant get a kill in will get you nowere fast

[butlerfamilywa]

Here is all I have to say on this Topic.

+1 Vorpal Greatsword
Race Restricted: Warforged
Min Level 8
EIGHT

yes read that again.. EIGHT thats 8 you know.. 2 levels lower than 10.

You can get a +1 weapon of Smiting, Banishing, Vorpal, Disruption at level 8, as long as it is race restricted.

Yes, I have a +1 Club of Disruption, ML 8, RR Human. Do I use it in Delera's? At level 8? YOU DARN'D TOOTIN!

I'd wield those over a Min II any day, well, 90% of the days, depending on what I'm fighting :D

My point is this. You can 1 hit kill any monster level 8+ as long as it isn't a red named, or has deathward, ect. That is how this game works.

You don't like that idea? Suck it up or go back to playing your cartoon characters in World of Dumbcrap.

[redgod]

/signed, /agreed and /indeed

One player being orders of magnitude more powerful than everyone else in the group isn't fun for anyone.

wrong its fun for the 1 op player and they earned it.

[butlerfamilywa]

Greensteel has been NERFED!!!

They are no longer min level 8.

Greensteel MIN II has been NERFED!!!

They changed transmuting to no long carry the slashing/piercing/bludgeoning effects.

Greensteel Double Positive Tier 2 items have been NERFED!!!

They now cast Raise Dead instead of True Resurrection

Greensteel Double Earth Tier 2 items have been NERFED!!!

We can no longer summon 2, 3, or even 20 Dense Earth Elementals. HOW ARE WE EVER GOING TO SOLO A QUEST AGAIN?!?! (Happy?)


How many more nerfs you want?
I remember a player on Thelanis, that actually used to summon 10+ Earth Elementals in Vision of Destruction (He was a Warforged Wizard fyi), and then proceed to Tank the quest, not allowing anyone else to have any fun. Did we complain? No. We just didn't invite him back :D

Also, you guys on Thelanis remember joining a certain Guild, on their raids, only to find 40 Earth Elementals beating on the Abbot?


Oh and tell me.. how many times has that TR res'd you using a Greensteel clickie? (The same affect gotten from the Ring of the Ancients, in a what, level 8-10 quest?)

[PopeJual]

Greensteel has been NERFED!!!

They are no longer min level 8.

Greensteel MIN II has been NERFED!!!

They changed transmuting to no long carry the slashing/piercing/bludgeoning effects.

Greensteel Double Positive Tier 2 items have been NERFED!!!

They now cast Raise Dead instead of True Resurrection


How many more nerfs you want?

Oh and tell me.. how many times has that TR res'd you using a Greensteel clickie?

And don't forget about Earth Elementals.

[butlerfamilywa]

You want to nerf something? Nerf the DDO Store.

Bells of Opening

Res Cakes

FRICKEN MANA POTIONS


ya, those make a ****ton of sense dont they

There is nothing I hate more, than running a Raid, and watching a cleric suck pot after pot after pot, then have the party pay them back, only to find out they were store purchased potions, and they collect the regular ones to sell... ***

Quit playing like you have unlimited sp. start requiring people to top themselves off, and you wouldn't need to drink 8+ pots in a NORMAL Demonqueen run.. SHUDDER

Ok, i'm done with this thread. flame on.

[CarpeNoctu]

Excuse me but... If you're having such a problem, perhaps you need to look more at your weapons than theirs... My guild leader's a TR, and I have many in my friends list, some of them on their 4th or 5th incarnations... I don't always beat their kill counts, but I'm always in the running... And I'm playing a 28 point Tempest Ranger16/Rogue1/Fighter1.

I don't have near the str or con of a barbarian at my lvl, nor have I ever had, I don't have the dex of a Rogue or an Arcane Archer, I don't have the Wis of a Cleric or an Arcane Archer... So it's all about the gear... Yours, not theirs.

I've seen gs weapons do their thing with magma surge, slay living, elemental mastery, corrosive salt etc... And those are nice effects... When they hit... When they don't, they basically have a cool +5 weapon with a boost to str or int or AC and a cool clickie. My greater bane (undead, elemental, construct, human, dwarf, elf, magical beast, vermin, aberration, animal, gnoll, giant, monstrous humanoid - Yes, I have dual wield sets of them all and they're all +3 or better) does constant damage. I use khopesh for most things and keep warhammers for skels, and I often use cursespewing, improved destruction, vorpal, paralyzing, pure good, righteous and metalline of pure good weapons for flesh golems and Arraetrikos. I keep deathblock for beholders and kaelth's touch from necro 3 for undead and the bloodstone for everything else, and my spectral gloves eliminate the need for ghost touch weapons, which I had until I got the gloves. The only bane I don't concern myself with is Ooze, and I never use my aberration bane on rust monsters, because I got sick of paying the repair bills, so now I just use everbright for both.

I've been playing this toon this way since I first rolled him and no melee toon has ever gotten (what I would consider to be) a significantly higher number of kills than I get, gs or no...

To be honest, I'm so unimpressed with the gs weapons that I'm concentrating on a helm and cloak first... I'm perfectly happy with my current weapons for now.

[Hokonoso]

I dont care if GS is changed to 16 or not but it's laughable to hear ppl defend it at lvl 12, it is hugely overpowered at that lvl, its a fact.

at lvl 12 i can solo elite quests using starter gear. there is no gear that trivializes this content as the content is trivial because it is so easy. go troll elsewhere.

[Rafal]

Lol, yes how on earth can it effect me when I join a tempest spine raid and a guy runs ahead with dual lit ii's killing everything before I even get there? This is how the game should be played? Turbine should just add a /follow command and I can go watch tv while my toon completes quest.

I suppose you are used to being carried through quests for loot and xp. I find it fun to contribute and have a little challenge when I play.

Wow! Just Wow!
You are in Tempest Spine as a level 12+ and expect any kind of a challenge? We used to do loot runs on elite there when maximum level was 10 and the game was much harder then it's now. Do you seriously expect any challenge at level 12+ with or without GS weapons? :eek:

Make a group of levels 9 - 11 and go to TS Elite and then try to have a challenge. Especially as this is the only F2P raid so you'll get a lot of people under equipped and without any knowledge of the game. Here! Have your challenge. As long as you do not accept anyone 12+ you will have no GS weapons in a party. Even better, do it max 10 to avoid GS items as well.

[Ollathir]

fleshgolems have DR/adamantine afaik

at least i got all red numbers with my ada greatsword

I find thats either extremly funny, or funnier than intended. :)

[woundweaver]

I notice leveling my last toon there are a lot of tr's running around with greensteel weapons. It totally ruins the mid level content. You should not be able to one hit kill anything your own level.

its posts like this that just scream "why can that toon do something i cant??" "nerf, please!!"
its a perk of tr'ing. just because someone else has a pair of greensteel khopeshes at lvl 12 and you dont, doesnt require it to be nerfed. seriously. they worked hard, ground out the shards, and ing's, and made them. ground to 20, tr'ed, and got back to lvl to use them. can you not do the same??
it isnt like theres lots of mid lvl content to screw up and overpower, anyways, unless you are talking lvls 5-10

[Visty]

I find thats either extremly funny, or funnier than intended. :)

hu?

arent they red when you deal normal damage?

[woundweaver]

and whats gonna be the argument when we get epic greensteel? what nerfs will people be asking for then?
think about it...

[khaldan]

hu?

arent they red when you deal normal damage?

On my screen, they're orange. This is probably just a mix-up between people who changed their UI so that one has red breaking DR and the other has red not breaking DR.

[Visty]

i have yellow not breaking DR, thats the standard i thought...well, anyway, i break their DR with the ada greatsword, thats what i wanted to say^^

[Soleran]

at lvl 12 i can solo elite quests using starter gear. there is no gear that trivializes this content as the content is trivial because it is so easy. go troll elsewhere.


I didn't mention soloing, I didn't even mention trivializing gear, it would seem you are trolling based on your comments.

That said gs is better then gear at lvl 12 unless you want to get into very specific items such as greater banes which is effective for only one enemy.

Anyway, gs is overpowered for lvl 12 gear as compared to gear associated with lvl 12's on average.

Play with gs play without whatever but its the numerous abilities that combine to make the GS a win not just one factor. If you tr and have one grats, if you dont lvl up and make one.

[HallowedOne]

Gather close kiddies. Once upon a time, when you were still a twinkle in the marketing team's eye, there was a level cap of 10. There was only one raid, and you had to walk to it 10 miles uphill...both ways. Most of the time it was closed because something was broken in it. Many heroes secretly rejoiced at the "Tempest Spine is closed" sign on the door, as it was a place of death. A maze that to this day has a dreadful map and if you do not know where you are going, you may end up as a weeping soul stone.

Then they added a DRAGON! (Insert hushed gasps) At first, nobody could kill it, but the people learned the quest and eventually level 7-10s were running it on ELITE! Heroes I tell you, heroes.

Then, much time passed and the cap was raised to 12! And a new raid....THE TITAN! Nobody could beat it and we all spent countless hours trying to learn it. And that warforged titan is the same titan you and your friend kill now with no effort in groups that say "in progress" with only 3-4 people. Oh hail those early heroes.

Soon came adventures in the land of giants in GIANTHOLD and a wasteland of undead and gnolls in the DESERT! *all the wee ones cower in fear* Brave adventurers went into the explorer area and had no idea what was there. Nary a one had any idea of even where the rares were or how to flag for the raids! (eyes open wide!) But those adventurers went time after time into the fray. Learning and gaining experience for those adventures that people solo and zerg now due to the bravery of those who came before them. *excited whispers from the kids*

Over the years, other areas of death and carnage emerged...Until finally the VALE OF TWILIGHT! *screams and hiding of eyes* Yes...it was a time of fear and death. Brave adventurers set out to learn the area and the quests in the vale. Quests filled with darkness, and spiders that were being controlled, and a maze in a mountain that nearly drove them insane! But these adventurers were not to be held back. They learned, and died, and returned and died...finally conquering and entering the 13th Eclipse THE SHROUD! *mouths open wide in disbelief*

Much like the dragon of old, these heroes of ancient history had to learn the intricacies of the Shroud. Attempt upon attempt failed. But your forefathers would not give up. In the end, many an LFM went up for "Shroud group levels 13-16?"! Your ancestors ventured into the Shroud in droves time after time, well under level 16!!!! It's true. Just ask great-great grandfather. They built their greensteel weapons at altars with tear filled eyes. Pride and relief in their hearts. They knew that they finally had family heirlooms and weapons of power that would protect them for the foes to come.

Now a group of young guns has come and want to take these weapons away! *angry faces and looks of disbelief* They claim the old ones have no right to have such powerful weapons when they are still buying theirs from the crooked vendors and the oppressive auction house. But the armor and steel earned by "those who came before" are their right. They earned those with their blood, and sweat and tears and sometimes with their impatient and drunk guild members shouting in their ears until their bloodshot eyes bled! Instead of earning their own badges of honor, they seek to strip them from the ones who spent their time, effort, lifeblood, and 14.99 a month to get them.

I say no! Let us not defile our history. Let us not soil the memory of vast battlegrounds filled with soul stones. Let the new ones earn their own keep and weapons of power and celebrate the victories of the veterans of Stormreach! (And spare ourselves countless ragequit posts!)

So endeth the lesson.

***********************************

Now leave my greensteel alone.

I laughed. Hard. +1

On topic: leave GS alone. Xp grind for TR's is already painful, it become less painful when u allow their equipment use at lvl 11.

[woundweaver]

Gather close kiddies. Once upon a time, when you were still a twinkle in the marketing team's eye, there was a level cap of 10. There was only one raid, and you had to walk to it 10 miles uphill...both ways. Most of the time it was closed because something was broken in it. Many heroes secretly rejoiced at the "Tempest Spine is closed" sign on the door, as it was a place of death. A maze that to this day has a dreadful map and if you do not know where you are going, you may end up as a weeping soul stone.

Then they added a DRAGON! (Insert hushed gasps) At first, nobody could kill it, but the people learned the quest and eventually level 7-10s were running it on ELITE! Heroes I tell you, heroes.

Then, much time passed and the cap was raised to 12! And a new raid....THE TITAN! Nobody could beat it and we all spent countless hours trying to learn it. And that warforged titan is the same titan you and your friend kill now with no effort in groups that say "in progress" with only 3-4 people. Oh hail those early heroes.

Soon came adventures in the land of giants in GIANTHOLD and a wasteland of undead and gnolls in the DESERT! *all the wee ones cower in fear* Brave adventurers went into the explorer area and had no idea what was there. Nary a one had any idea of even where the rares were or how to flag for the raids! (eyes open wide!) But those adventurers went time after time into the fray. Learning and gaining experience for those adventures that people solo and zerg now due to the bravery of those who came before them. *excited whispers from the kids*

Over the years, other areas of death and carnage emerged...Until finally the VALE OF TWILIGHT! *screams and hiding of eyes* Yes...it was a time of fear and death. Brave adventurers set out to learn the area and the quests in the vale. Quests filled with darkness, and spiders that were being controlled, and a maze in a mountain that nearly drove them insane! But these adventurers were not to be held back. They learned, and died, and returned and died...finally conquering and entering the 13th Eclipse THE SHROUD! *mouths open wide in disbelief*

Much like the dragon of old, these heroes of ancient history had to learn the intricacies of the Shroud. Attempt upon attempt failed. But your forefathers would not give up. In the end, many an LFM went up for "Shroud group levels 13-16?"! Your ancestors ventured into the Shroud in droves time after time, well under level 16!!!! It's true. Just ask great-great grandfather. They built their greensteel weapons at altars with tear filled eyes. Pride and relief in their hearts. They knew that they finally had family heirlooms and weapons of power that would protect them for the foes to come.

Now a group of young guns has come and want to take these weapons away! *angry faces and looks of disbelief* They claim the old ones have no right to have such powerful weapons when they are still buying theirs from the crooked vendors and the oppressive auction house. But the armor and steel earned by "those who came before" are their right. They earned those with their blood, and sweat and tears and sometimes with their impatient and drunk guild members shouting in their ears until their bloodshot eyes bled! Instead of earning their own badges of honor, they seek to strip them from the ones who spent their time, effort, lifeblood, and 14.99 a month to get them.

I say no! Let us not defile our history. Let us not soil the memory of vast battlegrounds filled with soul stones. Let the new ones earn their own keep and weapons of power and celebrate the victories of the veterans of Stormreach! (And spare ourselves countless ragequit posts!)

So endeth the lesson.

***********************************

Now leave my greensteel alone.

hehehehehee, +1 rep!! very good lesson to be learned, and the best **** piece of entertainment ive read on these boards in a couple months. wish i could give ya a million rep!!

for you **** noobs out there, read the quote. if you still do not understand, read it again till you do

[Aquoia93]

Only one thing needs to be said to the original poster, What are you gonna do after your grind through gear and levels? I can tell you what... exactly what you are complaining about with this thread, I can gaurantee it ;)

[Ollathir]

hu?

arent they red when you deal normal damage?

Nah, orange. Only time I see red numbers are when I'm taking damage.

[Rafal]

Anyway, gs is overpowered for lvl 12 gear as compared to gear associated with lvl 12's on average.

I would still disagree. The fact you can find a better weapon with ML 12-, even if it means you have to carry 50 different weapons, shows it's not overpowered. A long time vet would have the whole set if he cares about it. GS helps to keep it in one slot.

[Soleran]

I would still disagree. The fact you can find a better weapon with ML 12-, even if it means you have to carry 50 different weapons, shows it's not overpowered. A long time vet would have the whole set if he cares about it. GS helps to keep it in one slot.

The only thing that compares is a bane weapon and a bane weapon in game play is terrible when compared to even a minII when running around with an earth elemental and earthgrab and thats assuming they use a minII vs a litII.

Play with GS it doesnt matter what is crazy is when people stand around and make comments like, you can find a better weapon at lvl 12, when you look at the entire function of a gs weapon , no you can't find a better weapon not anywhere in game.

If you made the weapon and you TR'd and you can use it great good for you however its not even remotely equal in game to other lvl 12 gear.

[woundweaver]

The only thing that compares is a bane weapon and a bane weapon in game play is terrible when compared to even a minII when running around with an earth elemental and earthgrab and thats assuming they use a minII vs a litII.

Play with GS it doesnt matter what is crazy is when people stand around and make comments like, you can find a better weapon at lvl 12, when you look at the entire function of a gs weapon , no you can't find a better weapon not anywhere in game.

If you made the weapon and you TR'd and you can use it great good for you however its not even remotely equal in game to other lvl 12 gear.

alright, noob101 time.
refer to seamonkeys post. you might need to read it a few times. be patient, give it time, and it will sink in

now, go read!

[PopeJual]

Nah, orange. Only time I see red numbers are when I'm taking damage.

I have a little trouble telling the difference between DDO red and DDO orange. I actually only discovered that the wilderness bosses were Orange bosses instead of Red bosses when I was killing spiders in the Vale and forgot to swap away from my Vorpal weapons. One 20 later and I was looking at the blue corpse of a boss.

Yep. That's right. I killed a boss in the Vale with one shot. Because I had swapped AWAY from my greensteel.

[Visty]

I have a little trouble telling the difference between DDO red and DDO orange. I actually only discovered that the wilderness bosses were Orange bosses instead of Red bosses when I was killing spiders in the Vale and forgot to swap away from my Vorpal weapons. One 20 later and I was looking at the blue corpse of a boss.

Yep. That's right. I killed a boss in the Vale with one shot. Because I had swapped AWAY from my greensteel.

thats the reason why my oranged nameds are green nameds^^ cant tell that differance either

[Soleran]

alright, noob101 time.
refer to seamonkeys post. you might need to read it a few times. be patient, give it time, and it will sink in

now, go read!

His post has no value what so ever to my comment, his entire premise is built on the assumption all TR's with gs tier 3 have been around raiding since the inception of that gear which would be false.

And reread my last line, I'm merely looking at this from a gear POV where so many ppl are stating you can get better weapons at lvl 12 which I am saying is incorrect when you look at the values of a gs weapon tier 3.

[woundweaver]

The only thing that compares is a bane weapon and a bane weapon in game play is terrible when compared to even a minII when running around with an earth elemental and earthgrab and thats assuming they use a minII vs a litII.

Play with GS it doesnt matter what is crazy is when people stand around and make comments like, you can find a better weapon at lvl 12, when you look at the entire function of a gs weapon , no you can't find a better weapon not anywhere in game.

If you made the weapon and you TR'd and you can use it great good for you however its not even remotely equal in game to other lvl 12 gear.

and who really cares? make some greensteel, get to 20, tr, and get to 11 to use them. then, you can do it, too. maybe take a sprint boost, so you can get to the mobs first. problem solved for any complaining

[Visty]

His post has no value what so ever to my comment, his entire premise is built on the assumption all TR's with gs tier 3 have been around raiding since the inception of that gear which would be false.

And reread my last line, I'm merely looking at this from a gear POV where so many ppl are stating you can get better weapons at lvl 12 which I am saying is incorrect when you look at the values of a gs weapon tier 3.

it has been shown several times in this thread now that you can get way better weapons then greensteel

[Rav'n]

Gather close kiddies.
/really big snip!
Now leave my greensteel alone.

Seamonkey needs a REALLY Bigger Greenis after this post!! +1 (and 1...and 1...and 1...an...:D)

[woundweaver]

Seamonkey needs a REALLY Bigger Greenis after this post!! +1 (and 1...and 1...and 1...an...:D)

he better be careful, someones gonna trip over it....

[PopeJual]

The only thing that compares is a bane weapon and a bane weapon in game play is terrible when compared to even a minII when running around with an earth elemental and earthgrab and thats assuming they use a minII vs a litII.

Play with GS it doesnt matter what is crazy is when people stand around and make comments like, you can find a better weapon at lvl 12, when you look at the entire function of a gs weapon , no you can't find a better weapon not anywhere in game.

If you made the weapon and you TR'd and you can use it great good for you however its not even remotely equal in game to other lvl 12 gear.

You're getting confused between Earth/Earth/Earth and Pos/Earth/Pos+Earth.

Earth/Earth/Earth gives an Earth elemental clicky and Earthgrab (and does not break anyone's DR).

Mineral II gives a stoneskin clicky, Keen and Metalline.

LOTS of weapons are better than Shroud weapons for their specialized purpose. If they weren't I'd only be carrying MinII weapons. Instead, I carry a Holy/Acid/Acid Mineral II Khopesh for general DPS and an Icy Burst Paralyzing of Enfeebling Khopesh as my all-purpose weapons and

Scimitar + Khopesh of Smiting
Battleaxe of Greater Construct Bane for portal bashing (with the MinII until I find a better portal beater)
a Khopesh of Improved Destruction for when I see "Miss" on something other than a 1.
a pair of Muckbanes for beating on slimes and rusties because I haven't gotten around to finding a nice pair of blunt everbright weapons.
a pair of Greater Dragon Bane weapons
a generic +1 Metalline of Pure Good weapon for smacking silver/good DR bosses because I only have the one MinII weapon
a pair of Vorpal battleaxes
a pair of disruptors for smacking around undead in the Necro quests.
a Paralyzing longbow (used much more often than the other bows)
a Wounding of Enfeebling longbow
an Anarchic longbow
a Silver bow
and a few other weapons that I can't think of at the moment. I know that I could do better than these weapons, but they're all ML 12 except for a couple of 14's that have a trash prefix or suffix along with the useful attribute.

[Soleran]

it has been shown several times in this thread now that you can get way better weapons then greensteel

I guess everyone at lvl 20 then is going to be using lvl 12 weapons since they are way better then, huh.



You're getting confused between Earth/Earth/Earth and Pos/Earth/Pos+Earth.

Earth/Earth/Earth gives an Earth elemental clicky and Earthgrab (and does not break anyone's DR).

Mineral II gives a stoneskin clicky, Keen and Metalline.

LOTS of weapons are better than Shroud weapons for their specialized purpose. If they weren't I'd only be carrying MinII weapons. Instead, I carry a Holy/Acid/Acid Mineral II Khopesh for general DPS and an Icy Burst Paralyzing of Enfeebling Khopesh as my all-purpose weapons and

* Scimitar + Khopesh of Smiting
* Battleaxe of Greater Construct Bane for portal bashing (with the MinII until I find a better portal beater)
* a Khopesh of Improved Destruction for when I see "Miss" on something other than a 1.
* a pair of Muckbanes for beating on slimes and rusties because I haven't gotten around to finding a nice pair of blunt everbright weapons.
* a pair of Greater Dragon Bane weapons
* a generic +1 Metalline of Pure Good weapon for smacking silver/good DR bosses because I only have the one MinII weapon
* a pair of Vorpal battleaxes
* a pair of disruptors for smacking around undead in the Necro quests.
* a Paralyzing longbow (used much more often than the other bows)
* a Wounding of Enfeebling longbow
* an Anarchic longbow
* a Silver bow

and a few other weapons that I can't think of at the moment. I know that I could do better than these weapons, but they're all ML 12 except for a couple of 14's that have a trash prefix or suffix along with the useful attribute.

Right if you look you can find a specif weapon that might be better however as I have said as an overall weapon GS is better , its a good thing there isn't just one kind of GS tier 3 weapon also.

Man so many uptight ppl about GS, if you have it great, if you're able to TR and use it great it doesnt change my game play that said tier 3 gs is much more powerful as a total weapon then lvl 12 gear.

[Visty]

I guess everyone at lvl 20 then is going to be using lvl 12 weapons since they are way better then, huh.
at lvl12, yes

[PopeJual]

I guess everyone at lvl 20 then is going to be using lvl 12 weapons since they are way better then, huh.

I'm level 19 and going to cap in a day or two. I'm using a fair number of ML 12 weapons. Does that count? Heck, my trinket is ML 9. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Trinkets/Bloodstone.jpg

Edit: and this is my TR that I'm re-capping, by the way. Just thought I should mention that.

[woundweaver]

all im trying to say here is to look at the big picture. the OP is complaining because someones toon can do something he cant, so hes screaming nerf. selfish, isnt it? and havent we had enough nerfs for a bit? using greensteel at 11 on a tr is really the only real attractive thing to doing a tr. the xp sure as hell isnt, and neither is pug quality

which is why seamonkeys post strikes home. using greensteel at 11 on a tr is a perc to being one of the heroes who have dedicated blood sweat and tears back in the old days when it wasnt so easy to acquire them to craft them. to nerf them and take those away for a single selfish reason is just nuts, and will definately pi$$ alot of people off, including me, and i have not 1 single tr. i do have 27 pieces of greensteel, though, that i ground for. but i might, and if i decide to, thats all i have to look forward to. so, holler nerf all you want, holler unfair. if you want to be a hero, then go make yourself one. but dont ask everyone else to take a hit because they can do something you cant. they've worked for it

[Soleran]

all im trying to say here is to look at the big picture. the OP is complaining because someones toon can do something he cant, so hes screaming nerf. selfish, isnt it? and havent we had enough nerfs for a bit? using greensteel at 11 on a tr is really the only real attractive thing to doing a tr. the xp sure as hell isnt, and neither is pug quality

which is why seamonkeys post strikes home. using greensteel at 11 on a tr is a perc to being one of the heroes who have dedicated blood sweat and tears back in the old days when it wasnt so easy to acquire them to craft them. to nerf them and take those away for a single selfish reason is just nuts, and will definately pi$$ alot of people off, including me, and i have not 1 single tr. but i might, and if i decide to, thats all i have to look forward to. so, holler nerf all you want, holler unfair. if you want to be a hero, then go make yourself one. but dont ask everyone else to take a hit because they can do something you cant

Right, I agree which is why I didn't say nerf I was merely looking at the items. Letting TR's use GS doesnt take away from anyone's game play I don't agree with nerfing.

That said a litII or radiance item will certainly help the lvling process for a TR and if someone doesnt like it they should get to 20 farm shroud for months and tr with their own GS.

[lugoman]

all im trying to say here is to look at the big picture. the OP is complaining because someones toon can do something he cant, so hes screaming nerf. selfish, isnt it?


Uh no, that's not what I'm complaining about. I dont want to be able to run around killing things in 1 swing as that would make the game to easy and boring. Playing with someone who can run around killing things in 1 swing is also boring.






which is why seamonkeys post strikes home. using greensteel at 11 on a tr is a perc to being one of the heroes who have dedicated blood sweat and tears back in the old days when it wasnt so easy to acquire them to craft them.

Again you seem to be confusing tedium with difficulty. Grinding out gs is not a reflection on how skillfully you play the game, it just shows how long you have been playing. It is not hard to get. You arent a "hero" for running an easy raid 50 times.

[Quikster]

Uh no, that's not what I'm complaining about. I dont want to be able to run around killing things in 1 swing as that would make the game to easy and boring. Playing with someone who can run around killing things in 1 swing is also boring.





Again you seem to be confusing tedium with difficulty. Grinding out gs is not a reflection on how skillfully you play the game, it just shows how long you have been playing. It is not hard to get. You arent a "hero" for running an easy raid 50 times.

GS doesnt kill things with one swing.

The shroud is easy for many now sure, but there was a time when it wasnt.

[Visty]

Uh no, that's not what I'm complaining about. I dont want to be able to run around killing things in 1 swing as that would make the game to easy and boring. Playing with someone who can run around killing things in 1 swing is also boring.



come back when you actually oneshot everything with a greensteel weapons

at lvl10 mobs have more then 100hp, so you just CANT oneshot them

defeated by own argument, how does that feel? :p

[Lobster5]

all im trying to say here is to look at the big picture. the OP is complaining because someones toon can do something he cant, so hes screaming nerf. selfish, isnt it? and havent we had enough nerfs for a bit? using greensteel at 11 on a tr is really the only real attractive thing to doing a tr. the xp sure as hell isnt, and neither is pug quality

which is why seamonkeys post strikes home. using greensteel at 11 on a tr is a perc to being one of the heroes who have dedicated blood sweat and tears back in the old days when it wasnt so easy to acquire them to craft them. to nerf them and take those away for a single selfish reason is just nuts, and will definately pi$$ alot of people off, including me, and i have not 1 single tr. i do have 27 pieces of greensteel, though, that i ground for. but i might, and if i decide to, thats all i have to look forward to. so, holler nerf all you want, holler unfair. if you want to be a hero, then go make yourself one. but dont ask everyone else to take a hit because they can do something you cant. they've worked for it

This whole "worked for it" argument is laughable, as is the equation of "this is overpowered" with "this toon can do something I can't, I am therefore jealous."

If I could grind the shroud 100 times and be presented with a button marked "win" that gave auto-completion, would you be in favour of me pressing it at the start of every quest? You'd argue that I'd earned it and all the people whose enjoyment it ruined should either get their own, have some foreknowledge that I'm going to do it, or solo everything so it never happens to them?

Also I'm sure all the people talking about their hard work to earn their greensteel heroically saved shroud groups from failure, or did their fair share of playing cleric, and didn't just stand about with autoattack on piking their way through it.

[Visty]

This whole "worked for it" argument is laughable, as is the equation of "this is overpowered" with "this toon can do something I can't, I am therefore jealous."

If I could grind the shroud 100 times and be presented with a button marked "win" that gave auto-completion, would you be in favour of me pressing it at the start of every quest? You'd argue that I'd earned it and all the people whose enjoyment it ruined should either get their own, have some foreknowledge that I'm going to do it, or solo everything so it never happens to them?

Also I'm sure all the people talking about their hard work to earn their greensteel heroically saved shroud groups from failure, or did their fair share of playing cleric, and didn't just stand about with autoattack on piking their way through it.

greensteel isnt autowin, therefore your post holds no merits

[Lobster5]

greensteel isnt autowin, therefore your post holds no merits

If the argument is "earned = non-overpowered" then it has to hold true for all cases. It doesn't. Your objection hold no merits.