An easy way to adjust AH prices

[LightInDark]

Ok so high auction prices have been beaten to death for a very long time, and with the change to the plat standard dug up taped together and beaten again but ..... I have a new stick and it needs running in :)

So while hunting the auction in a fruitless attempt to find a weapon I could afford it occurred to me that there was a simple way to lower prices. Current the AH charges a nominal fee to list an item and if it does not sell so what list it again. Sellers do not have to lower the price they can hold out for the price they want practically forever.

What I suggest is to removal the nominal cost an instead charge the seller a percentage of the initial listing price. This charging (of a reasonable cost) will incentivize the seller to sell the object in a reasonable amount of listings (otherwise any money made from selling the item on the auction will be swallowed up in fees)

This has a few advantages

The lower the starting price the lower the cost of listing so sellers are encouraged to lower the initial bid meaning more people can afford to bid and maybe win the auction.

Using the initial listing price means you can still have large buy out values, thus those who need it in a hurry pay a reasonable premium for the privilege.

People who use the AH as a bank will be discouraged from the practice or will have to pay for the privilege

It will provide a much need plat sink in the game, first from the listing fee and second from the increase in sold items (this maybe debatable since more sales at lower prices vs few sales higher price)

The amount charged can be adjusted until the an equilibrium of sorts is worked out which encourages lower starting prices.

Anyone will still be able to list items by reducing the initial price. This amount can be capped so that high value rare items can still be listed or you could refund the amount if the auction sells.

Well that's my 2 cents.

PS If that's how the nominal listing fee is calculated now then raise the percentage :)

[Ormindo]

Actually, the AH "toll price" is 30% (if I'm correct). You'll only get 700K gold for an item you sold 1 million gold.

I get your idea : the "toll" should be calculated so that if an item is overpriced (like 12million gold), the seller will get less money than if he had sold it at a lower cost, but for a lower toll.

[khaldan]

Actually, the AH "toll price" is 30% (if I'm correct). You'll only get 700K gold for an item you sold 1 million gold.

I get your idea : the "toll" should be calculated so that if an item is overpriced (like 12million gold), the seller will get less money than if he had sold it at a lower cost, but for a lower toll.

And for the items worth the 1.2 million plat? All this will do is force everything worth a bunch off the AH moreso than it already has been.

[theb]

So, raise the cost of listing an item to the current cost of shill bidding. Think that might have an effect on shill bids?

[Pantsless]

I think some of you guys are misunderstanding the OP's suggestion.

Currently, you pay a nomimal listing fee based off of the item's base value (as well as the duration of the auction) whenever you post an item in the AH. The OP suggests that this fee should, instead, be based off of the minimum bid price which is often specified to be much (much much) higher than the item's base price.

For example:
The 72 hour AH listing fee for an item with a listed base value of 4900 plat is 98 plat (or 2% of the base value). Currently, one could post this item with any arbitrarily high starting bid (say 1 million plat), yet the listing fee will always be 98 plat for each 3-day cycle in the AH. Now, if the listing fee were changed to be 2% of the minimum bid instead of 2% of the item's base value then listing this item with a starting bid of 1 million plat will result in a 20,000 plat listing fee (more than 4 times the base value of the item itself!). You better hope this item sells, or you're gonna go broke re-posting it!

Conversely, you could eliminate or minimize your own posting fees by simply listing items with starting bids that are very low. If you posted the same item with a starter bid of 1800 plat, you'd only pay 36 plat to list it--lower than the current system. The buy-out price could remain the same in both situations, but in the low starter bid one, someone is likely to at least put in a bid if the item is actually worthwhile.


The point of this is to encourage people to list items with lower starting bids so that they sell within a few cycles rather than having people post the same item repeatedly at obscenely high prices waiting for that 1 sucker that comes along every couple of months or so.

Listing fees of this sort are a common practice in many MMORPG AH's....though given that DDO has the only non-searchable AH that I've ever encountered, it certainly seems like that they're not really into taking cues from systems that actually work.

[Jendrak]

While this is a good idea in theory in reality what would happen is sellers would just raise the price to not only cover the 30% sellers fee but also the extra listing fee.

Bottom line: Increaseing the cost of doign business only increases the cost to the consumer. The is how it works no matter what economy you are applying it to.

There is a much easier way to make prices in the AH come down.....Stop paying the insane prices and they will lower it in order to sell it.

[zztophat]

While this is a good idea in theory in reality what would happen is sellers would just raise the price to not only cover the 30% sellers fee but also the extra listing fee.

Bottom line: Increaseing the cost of doign business only increases the cost to the consumer. The is how it works no matter what economy you are applying it to.

There is a much easier way to make prices in the AH come down.....Stop paying the insane prices and they will lower it in order to sell it.

The idea is that there is no 30% listing fee, it is eliminated and replaced by a fee based how much the items is being listed for. Items placed on the auction for a reasonably low starting bid would cost less, even more so than the current prices.

I Approve of this idea, it's time to start posting things at prices people can afford and not using the auction as a 12 million gold bloodstone bank slot.

[NaturalHazard]

i think the op's idea has merit.

[Pantsless]

While this is a good idea in theory in reality what would happen is sellers would just raise the price to not only cover the 30% sellers fee but also the extra listing fee.

Bottom line: Increaseing the cost of doign business only increases the cost to the consumer. The is how it works no matter what economy you are applying it to.

There is a much easier way to make prices in the AH come down.....Stop paying the insane prices and they will lower it in order to sell it.

It's a bit hard to "pass the cost on" when you're actually listing items at bid-able prices. Currently, I can list an item at 1 million plat and buy-out at 2 million plat and just hope someone comes along and buys it. I can do this indefinitely since re-listing is almost free. Now, if i had to pay 20k plat every 3 days to do this, and the market value happens to be less than 1 million plat, well, I'd either go broke or I'd put in a starting bid (or better yet, a buy-out bid) near the actual market value so that it sells sooner rather than later. If the market value is higher than 1 million plat, well, there's not really an issue there, eh? As long as someone is willing to click "bid", I get what i want. Perhaps, I'd up my starting bid to 1,029 k plat to recoup the listing price, but in order for this to be worthwhile, it still has to be under the actual market value for there to be a good chance that it's sold and that I avoid additional re-listing fees.

As far as not buying over-priced items. That's already the case. It's not like people rush out to buy over-priced items. The vast majority of over-priced listings in the AH go unsold. Sometimes they're re-posted at a more reasonable price, and sometimes they're repeatedly re-posted at the same price on the hope that someone who is either desperate or foolish enough will buy it. With neglible posting fees, people who don't value the time they waste re-posting stuff at above-market prices are rewarded for their patience--with the added side bonus of distorting pricing signals for everyone else.

[MrLarone]

OP - good idea.

but is it really needed?

in any economy you're going to have multiple prices for any given item. cheaper prices sell quicker is all.

yes it's annoying to see an item you want but can't afford, but that's life. if one ends up paying over the odds (as i have on occasion) it's only because the seller had more patience then you.

personally i would find it much more useful to implement a 'useful' guide as to items actual worth. e.g. a display of the average sell price based off of the previous months sales (or all time sales if item is rare).

the problem is lack of applicable data, not human greed.

***edit***

also, this is potentially harmful when considering high value goods.

i've been attempting to sell dragonscales for about 100kpp each, not an unreasonable amount judging by other listings both before and after the change to plat standard.

for what ever reason i've not sold these.

yet it remains to be seen that this is the standard price (for orien, judging by months of looking).

under your system i wouldn't be able to list these as often as i have and so they wouldn't be available.

yes i could drop my price as demand doesn't seem that high but i'd rather just wait.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

AH prices are fine, those are the simple rules of supply and demand. Free market and all that...

[Krag]

You aim at the symptom instead of the culprit.

AH prices are not high because some idiot posted his +1 dagger for 100 times the base price but because there are players who have been here since beta, have accumulated enormous amount of plat and are willing to spend it for shining goodies.

Here is an example. Let's say I got lucky and pulled +1 Shocking Burst Greatsword of Pure Good (RR WF). Make a guess, shall I post this item for 1k so freshly rolled barb will be able to buy it after farming Durk n/h/e when I can easily sell it for 50 times that much?

As long as veterans have interest in the same lowbie items as new players the prices will match the highest income and stay outside the reach of newbs.


Is it possible to solve the problem? Yes, sort of.
We need more BtA loot like Carnifex that is on par or better than randomly generated icy bursted loot. Only drastic measures like this can keep veterans out of lowbie market.

[Lorz]

Why do people always say the AH is over priced.

If it is...then things don't sell. The problem starts similar to people covering others loots in chests. If you can afford it buy off the AHif you can't don't. But don't try to create artificial price controls. That is just silly.....and also more dangerous to the economy as well as the health of the AH.

Funny I've played for what 5 years and i have only ever bought one or two items off the AH. Sounds like to me some people are too dependent on the AH.

Anyways o don't see anything broken with the AH other than a bunch of whiners who would also demand your loot out of the chest.....same attitude......same demand. Ridiculous. Either the market will bare it or it won't. It is self correcting...even if you feel it is too expensive. This means ..... You can't afford it....don't buy it.

[Noctus]

As long as stuff sells (and it does in the AH) it is not overpriced.

It might be too pricy for you, or most people, but you dont sell to the average or lowest bidder. If you sell you want to give it to the highest bidder. Free market economy and such.......

[Lorien_the_First_One]

That was the way the game worked in 2006. They changed it because it was counter productive. What it did was mean that marginal items that might or might not sell were just vendored instead of AH'd (and that hurts new players the most as they are the one that might want the +3 frost dagger of deception). It also meant high end items that are worth a fair bit but might or might not sell in one listing are never put on the AH, they are only sold in the forums. Basically it kills the AH.

[systemstate]

As someone who relied heavily on the AH for a long time, I've thought hard on this. I personally feel that prices have indeed risen on the AH since the plat standard went in to effect, and initially I was annoyed by the higher prices.

However, I have to concede that this is an auction house. As long as someone is willing to pay, then it's not over priced.

It sometimes takes longer, but the vendors still have plenty of very nice items show up in their inventory from time to time. I've picked up paralyzers, smiters, banishers and disruptors from the House D pawn and Reaver's pawn.

Sure, you're not likely to see holy burst of pure good khopeshes in there every day, but they do pop up from time to time.

Look at it this way, you are never going to pull a level 8 item from a level 8 quest in this game. Those come from what? Level 12 quests? Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

If you want something that you can't pull from a quest at your level, then it's a luxury item. The AH provides a mechanism to acquire these luxury items, but they're going to cost you- As they should.

[goblean]

I don't mind the idea, but let's just wait until they put a search function in. IMO putting a keyword search function should, over time lower prices as well, because I can then compare all items with the same keyword. Granted there will still be people who think their +1 sacred dagger of hamstring is uber and price it ridiculously.

[magnus1]

the last mmo i played had a search function and showed what the last 5 items of anything that sold for. it also charged the seller 15% of the list price and took 15% from the buyer when the item was purchased. but that mmo showed at least what the last 5 items sold for to let you know about how much its worth.it allowed you to see your char selling something to another of your char to pass money from 1 toon to another toon so you shouldnt see a massive cost spike but as a money transfer. for example a +3 greatsword went for

$2200pps 7/3/2010
$23oopps 7/2/2010
$2000pps 7/1/2010
$3,000,000pps 06/30/2010 (transfer) wouldnt actually say this but it would be implied
$1900pps 6/29/2010

so the ave price is around $2100pps

so if we had this system there would be no 85 pages to look thru to find what you want and the ave price the last 5 sold for. took about 10 mins a day to post and sell everything you needed to.

[Cam_Neely]

What I suggest is to removal the nominal cost an instead charge the seller a percentage of the initial listing price. This charging (of a reasonable cost) will incentivize the seller to sell the object in a reasonable amount of listings (otherwise any money made from selling the item on the auction will be swallowed up in fees)


Increasing the cost of putting an item in the AH will only restrict the supply of items in the AH, leading to higher prices, and more people either using /trade or NPCing items at the guild shops.

What you propose would make it worse not better

[MarcusCleardawn]

Here's the problem with high listing fees.

It constricts supply, which raises prices. For example, when I was a little toon, I pulled a ring of feathers. I didn't really care much about the ring of feathers, but I sure as heck wanted a Maelstrom. At the time, even with the 30% cost associated with the sale, I was able to post the ring at a price that enabled me to buy the Maelstrom. Everyone is happy, I got my axe, the buyer got his/her ring, and Turbine eliminated a good bit of platinum from the economy.

Under your proposal I wouldn't have been able to do it, because I couldn't afford the listing fee.

The second problem is, the market isn't broken. Overpriced items generally go unsold or when purchased are bought by the uber rich who are too rich to care (which is good for the casual player as it eliminates the wealth differential) or by the uber rich who made a mistake (forgetting that prices are in platinum instead of gold, adding an extra zero to a bid etc.).

What seems to be the real underlying complaint about all of these "fix the market" threads is "I can't afford the thing I want on the auction house." The market price of a thing is whatever another person is willing to pay for it. It is certain that your proposal would curtail the supply of items listed on the AH, and that will only increase prices.

Basically there are 2 scenarios, either an item is sufficiently common that the "overpriced" auction will be undercut by a more reasonable offer within a week to 10 days, or the item is so rare that the offeror is likely to be the only supply of the item for a considerable period, e.g. +3 tomes I think I've only seen 1 of those offered since I started playing.

[KillEveryone]

This idea may get those trying to sell masterwork stuff to stop trying to sell that **** on the AH.

I don't think anything...search function, change in fees, different fees, back to gold...is going to lower any prices.

Prices have been going up for some things and with the change to plat, people are trying to take advantage of the uninformed and when newer people join they will see those prices and start posting at that price. It is a cycle that will not end.

I know the value of stuff from when it was listed in gold and can convert in plat. If it is listed too high I don't buy. I'll let some other sucker buy it.

I do like this idea though. There is a lot of junk that just keeps getting posted and having the poster pay a different fee would probably make them quit selling that junk. Even with a search function we will still have to sift through that stuff.

[LordDamax]

I'm a HEAVY AH seller. Both for rare items, and decent vendor trash (stuff like +3 holy burst/pg shortswords, etc).

If there was a huge up front fee, I wouldnt list ANYTHING but things I KNEW would sell. Which, given the risk of it not selling for the amount I want, means I'd not sell it on the AH.

I'd vendor the trash, and post the rest to the forums.

The AH wouldnt see my items anymore if I stood to lose a large sum by merely listing it.

Don't like the high prices? Don't pay them. They will come down. Its economics.

[Phidius]

...
Is it possible to solve the problem? Yes, sort of.
We need more BtA loot like Carnifex that is on par or better than randomly generated icy bursted loot. Only drastic measures like this can keep veterans out of lowbie market.

Why would new players want to keep the veterans out?? When I start up on a new server with 0 resources, those same "Vets" are the ones who are funding my initial setup.

Make everything I pull BtA and it will just take longer for me to get into the higher levels to start raking in the coin.



...It also meant high end items that are worth a fair bit but might or might not sell in one listing are never put on the AH, they are only sold in the forums. Basically it kills the AH.

Agreed.

How about they just put in a search feature so I can ignore all the over-priced clutter when I'm looking for a smiting rapier? Considering how Turbine prioritizes game changes, every time I see these "Kill the AH" threads, I'm scared they're going to actually listen.

[LordDamax]

First, to the guy (not) selling scales for 100k plat. Know why they arent selling? Because it's a dragon scale! Its not worth 100k plat! I see people selling blue scales on the AH on Thelanis all the time for 150k plat and it's absurd. Its not a rare item. Its not even a hard to get item. It's an ANNOYING to get item. But that doesnt make it worth that much.

Now my other point. I've said it before, I'll say it again:

If you see an item on the AH, and 2 days later it's still there? Thats the price its NOT selling at.

I'd say 80% of the stuff on the AH - thats the price it WONT sell for. Why not? If it WAS selling for that it'd be gone already. (Assuming the item has a buyout. And if it doesnt, why not? No one wants to wait 3 days to get their item).

Seriously... right now on Thelanis there are 8 Bloodstones up, ranging from 800k to 1.25 mil plat. Guess what? Supply and demand. The supply is there, there are 8 for sale. Guess the demand isnt high enough to warrant 800k plat.

Know why?

A bloodstone isnt worth 800k plat! Want the proof it's not worth 800k plat? ITS STILL ON THE AH! If it were WORTH it it'd be sold. I have 3 chars who could benefit from a bloodstone. Its not intregral to their build, but they could benefit. My haggle mule has over 4 mil plat on him. My other guys, who knows how much more. Its not that I cant afford it - I just bought 900k plat of gear for leveling my mechanic and prepping for my sorc's TR. And I've made all but 200k of it back already.

So, I can afford those bloodstones. But guess what? I'm not paying 800k plat for it, and apparently neither is anyone else.

****es me off when I see people offer an item in the /trade channel for 10% less than the currently-not-selling-for price on the AH claiming it's below market value. No. It's 10% below what it already won't sell for. Unless that item is less than 10% over market value, YOUR item is overpriced too. Like Blue Dragonscales. I'll pay about 35k plat each for them, a little more than the price they were 2 years ago. 100k? 150k? Are you nuts? They are on the AH for 150k because they ARENT SELLING. Know why? It's overpriced! To me, they arent worth more than 35k each. Yes, those I NEED. Pretty bad too. But I'm not paying 100k a pop. I almost paid 50k a pop for 3 then changed my mind. Felt too expensive.

Point is: If you see an item on the AH, and its still there 2-3 days later for the same price, it's overpriced. Sure, you may get lucky, find a desperate rich vet who needs it and doesnt care about the cost, but thats not what drives and sets an economy. Thats an anomaly. And thats not what people should be basing value on.

We seriously need to see what items HAVE actually sold for.

[LordDamax]

Or we need what ebay does: Best Offer. When listing an item you can select 'best offer' and you can take offers on an item. You can accept or deny the offer. You can also set auto-thresholds... such as I list a bloodstone for a buyout of 800k plat because I'm an idiot and I know thats overpriced (ha!) but I'll take offers on it... and set the minimum accept at 600k, and decline below 400k...

What that means is anyone who offers at least 600k the sale is automatic. If they offer between 400k and 600k then its submitted to me for approval. Offer less than 400k and it's denied.

They'd have to implement a system where they can make one offer on that item per day, otherwise someone could creep up and discover your values, but it might help the system some.

[Khanyth]

As long as stuff sells (and it does in the AH) it is not overpriced.

It might be too pricy for you, or most people, but you dont sell to the average or lowest bidder. If you sell you want to give it to the highest bidder. Free market economy and such.......

Bingo.

Other than needing a search feature, the AH is fine. Don't want to pay that much... don't. End of story. Suck it up Prince(ss)

[chester99]

Ok so high auction prices have been beaten to death for a very long time, and with the change to the plat standard dug up taped together and beaten again but ..... I have a new stick and it needs running in :)

So while hunting the auction in a fruitless attempt to find a weapon I could afford it occurred to me that there was a simple way to lower prices. Current the AH charges a nominal fee to list an item and if it does not sell so what list it again. Sellers do not have to lower the price they can hold out for the price they want practically forever.

What I suggest is to removal the nominal cost an instead charge the seller a percentage of the initial listing price. This charging (of a reasonable cost) will incentivize the seller to sell the object in a reasonable amount of listings (otherwise any money made from selling the item on the auction will be swallowed up in fees)

This has a few advantages

The lower the starting price the lower the cost of listing so sellers are encouraged to lower the initial bid meaning more people can afford to bid and maybe win the auction.

Using the initial listing price means you can still have large buy out values, thus those who need it in a hurry pay a reasonable premium for the privilege.

People who use the AH as a bank will be discouraged from the practice or will have to pay for the privilege

It will provide a much need plat sink in the game, first from the listing fee and second from the increase in sold items (this maybe debatable since more sales at lower prices vs few sales higher price)

The amount charged can be adjusted until the an equilibrium of sorts is worked out which encourages lower starting prices.

Anyone will still be able to list items by reducing the initial price. This amount can be capped so that high value rare items can still be listed or you could refund the amount if the auction sells.

Well that's my 2 cents.

PS If that's how the nominal listing fee is calculated now then raise the percentage :)

why don't you require that people just give you their items for free. maybe we could work out a system where you don't even have to log in. shiny new items just show up in your inventory automatically. while we're at it, maybe we should grant everyone a free completionist feat. we can all win ddo!

[Krag]

Why would new players want to keep the veterans out?? When I start up on a new server with 0 resources, those same "Vets" are the ones who are funding my initial setup.

Make everything I pull BtA and it will just take longer for me to get into the higher levels to start raking in the coin.

Festivult, Risia Games are the best sources of starters income.
Random loot too unreliable to supply the needs.

[Pugsley]

Yes, increase the AH's fee when the item is listed. If the item doesn't sell, the seller is out more money.

Better yet, make it a 50% (of asking price) deposit that you get back if it sells.

[Fomori]

Part of the rise of the AH prices was/is the influx of FTP players. More people vying for the same item pool is going to create demand and competition to find the deals first. Also to some people playing market games IS the game they enjoy. These people will always be striving to find the deals and resell them at a higher price. Putting in a search function will only exacerbate that.

I think that people are expecting the search function to 'filter out the trash' but at the same time the market specialists will also be able to filter out the trash. Now those deals you are looking for are going to be harder and harder to spot. What its really going to do is just stabilize the price ceiling.

I'm not saying that its a bad thing, or that playing market games is wrong, but its probably not going to a thing about the upward creeping prices.

[chrichton]

While this is a good idea in theory in reality what would happen is sellers would just raise the price to not only cover the 30% sellers fee but also the extra listing fee.

Bottom line: Increaseing the cost of doign business only increases the cost to the consumer. The is how it works no matter what economy you are applying it to.

There is a much easier way to make prices in the AH come down.....Stop paying the insane prices and they will lower it in order to sell it.
I strongly disagree with this. Other game(s) have shown, if the cost to list something is tied to the initial listed price, the initial listed price is more grounded.

The OP's idea was brought up in the past so many times, I can only assume the devs have a specific reason for not changing their AH style, for the OP's idea is a great one.

But it makes too much sense, so it will never happen :p . . .

[chrichton]

. . .

Funny I've played for what 5 years and i have only ever bought one or two items off the AH. Sounds like to me some people are too dependent on the AH.

. . .
Then perhaps this is a subject that you are not qualified to comment on. (geez)

[Cam_Neely]

Other game(s) have shown, if the cost to list something is tied to the initial listed price, the initial listed price is more grounded.

Link, proof or example?

Also this does not mean that prices will come down, as I suggested before, the number of items listed will decrease, and the market price will go up. Not sure what you mean by grounded.

[chrichton]

. . .
Under your proposal I wouldn't have been able to do it, because I couldn't afford the listing fee.

. . .
This is untrue. You'd just have to list lower (thus less cost to you), then hope those bidding get it up to where you'd like it. If it doesn't get up there, then you were overpricing the item - or pricing it at a level the market did not agree with.

[chrichton]

Link, proof or example?

Also this does not mean that prices will come down, as I suggested before, the number of items listed will decrease, and the market price will go up. Not sure what you mean by grounded.

The prices will be more in tune with what the market will allow. You would be less likely to get outrageous posts. Those who are the kind to list things at crazy levels would be less likely to do so 9due to the expense), and more likely to list in line with the market - ie: at 'reasonable' levels. Plus, if some lowbie/newbie got an uber time, they could list it low, watch the bidding wars commence, and get a nice chunk of cash for little initial cost.

The game I was talking about was CoH. True - very different game (in terms of loot), but it kept initial bids in line with the actual market.

[the_laughing_god]

The problem with all these "but it's just supply and demand, so get over it" responses is they don't hold true.

I've been playing all of 6 weeks? 2 months? I got my first collapsed portable hole off the AH about a month ago, for 18K. There were typically less than 5 listed at any given time.


Check out the prices on that same item now. 65K...85K...100K...200K, even; and there are now 8-10 listed on the AH at any given time.


Supply has *increased*, and the asking price has gone up 3-10x in a month. Even *if* there were a 10x increase in F2P players, supply has outpaced that.



I'm not sure the OP's suggestion is the greatest thing since bread by the slice, but the Chicago school, "the market knows all" approach to economics doesn't hold water.

[Impaqt]

If I was going to get hammered for listing an item, It would not go on the AH. ever.

no one charges a flat fee based on the starting price regardless of whether or not an item sells.

[SneakThief]

the last mmo i played had a search function and showed what the last 5 items of anything that sold for. it also charged the seller 15% of the list price and took 15% from the buyer when the item was purchased. but that mmo showed at least what the last 5 items sold for to let you know about how much its worth.it allowed you to see your char selling something to another of your char to pass money from 1 toon to another toon so you shouldnt see a massive cost spike but as a money transfer. for example a +3 greatsword went for

$2200pps 7/3/2010
$23oopps 7/2/2010
$2000pps 7/1/2010
$3,000,000pps 06/30/2010 (transfer) wouldnt actually say this but it would be implied
$1900pps 6/29/2010

so the ave price is around $2100pps

so if we had this system there would be no 85 pages to look thru to find what you want and the ave price the last 5 sold for. took about 10 mins a day to post and sell everything you needed to.

This ^^^ I want this! This makes it very easy for posters of items to see what they could get for it quickly. If they want to charge more and maybe wait longer, more power to them. This would make being a 'seller' so much easier.

Add in text search on the item title and being a buyer would be even easier. Then you dont have to wade through 50 pages of ice games stuff to find what you want. That would being a 'buyer' a lot easier.

If prices are still outrageous, so be it.

[Kokanee]

The idea is that there is no 30% listing fee, it is eliminated and replaced by a fee based how much the items is being listed for. Items placed on the auction for a reasonably low starting bid would cost less, even more so than the current prices.

I Approve of this idea, it's time to start posting things at prices people can afford and not using the auction as a 12 million gold bloodstone bank slot.


TO me that would just be plain foolish.

Quick scenario: I want to sell my ubber +5 Metalline kopesh of pure good for 15 million with 10 million base bid price. But hey I don't want to pay high posting fees. So I post it with initial 1 gold bid price and buy-out of 15 million. Then I go and bid on it for 10 million. If nobody bid higher than me I get my ubber item back at no cost.

This way the AH would go broke in no time.

Just my 1 cent..

[Cam_Neely]

The problem with all these "but it's just supply and demand, so get over it" responses is they don't hold true.

I've been playing all of 6 weeks? 2 months? I got my first collapsed portable hole off the AH about a month ago, for 18K. There were typically less than 5 listed at any given time.

Check out the prices on that same item now. 65K...85K...100K...200K, even; and there are now 8-10 listed on the AH at any given time.

Supply has *increased*, and the asking price has gone up 3-10x in a month. Even *if* there were a 10x increase in F2P players, supply has outpaced that.

I'm not sure the OP's suggestion is the greatest thing since bread by the slice, but the Chicago school, "the market knows all" approach to economics doesn't hold water.
How does this show it does not hold true?
They are listed at that price, does not mean they are selling for that price, or that people are paying that price. Im willing to sell you a $1 bill for $10. Yesterday, im sure you could have gotten one at the bank for a dollar. Does this mean that the price, the price has gone up 10x in a night?

If you think they should only be 18k still, get out there, farm some, and place then up for 18k by out. You seem to know the price better then the market, so go for it.

[Zippo]

While this is a good idea in theory in reality what would happen is sellers would just raise the price to not only cover the 30% sellers fee but also the extra listing fee.

Bottom line: Increaseing the cost of doign business only increases the cost to the consumer. The is how it works no matter what economy you are applying it to.

There is a much easier way to make prices in the AH come down.....Stop paying the insane prices and they will lower it in order to sell it.

The basic adjunct of economics - supply and demand.

[muffinlad]

TO me that would just be plain foolish.

Quick scenario: I want to sell my ubber +5 Metalline kopesh of pure good for 15 million with 10 million base bid price. But hey I don't want to pay high posting fees. So I post it with initial 1 gold bid price and buy-out of 15 million. Then I go and bid on it for 10 million. If nobody bid higher than me I get my ubber item back at no cost.

This way the AH would go broke in no time.

Just my 1 cent..

I am assuming in this scenario that the AH no longer charges 30% on completion as well...
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To the OP, I disagree. The AH is not overpriced, even though I sit and YELL that at it a huge number of times. Why? Because anything I think is too expensive I simply do not buy, be it a 100k blue scale or 50k for a portable hole, just...don't....buy....it.

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To several others mentioning the Chicago school...I am not a big fan, in real life. This is a game. A fantasy game. This is the only place that the Chicago school actually works....so let it ride.

muffinfriedman

[theb]

The problem with all these "but it's just supply and demand, so get over it" responses is they don't hold true...I'm not sure the OP's suggestion is the greatest thing since bread by the slice, but the Chicago school, "the market knows all" approach to economics doesn't hold water.

I've been playing for about half a year. I did a shroud run and got two larges, one of which was devil scales. The time it took me to turn on my computer, join the group, wait for more etc. and turn the computer off was about an hour. I sold the scale for 350kpp and traded away the other large, but I could have sold it. I also got a bunch of vendor **** I sold. I have ML: 6 race restricted: elf/drow +5 mithril full plate (bought off AH for 4,000pp) and a ML: 6 race restricted: elf/drow +5 mithril tower shield (don't ask me how much lol). So, I decided I want a few of: +1 keen rapier of enfeebling, a +2 keen rapier of enfeebling, an elemental rapier of enfeebling, a +1 weakening rapier of enfeebling, a +2 weakening rapier of enfeebling...etc. for leveling up a new elf. So to me those items are each worth a good 15-30 minutes of my time, which is a lot of plat. And if that makes the day of the newb who looted that specific item and put it up on the AH, wonderful. And if it ruins the day of the n00b who didn't loot it but feels *entitled* to buy it with all they've accumulated from playing a month...too bad. I set the price of those since I'm offering more plat than you are. And if the n00b is so concerned about the other n00b who listed a finesse light hammer of vertigo +4 for 1 million pp starting bid and 2 million pp buyout...grow up. If that bothers you you're going to spend your whole life being annoyed, and probably being annoying too.

[RedDw4rf]

In another game I play, when you post something if it doesn't sell you get it back when it expires and you can't re-post it. Only option is to then sell to vendor. This makes you not get too carried away with the price you put on something and works to keep prices down a bit.

[theb]

In another game I play, when you post something if it doesn't sell you get it back when it expires and you can't re-post it. Only option is to then sell to vendor. This makes you not get too carried away with the price you put on something and works to keep prices down a bit.

Again:


So, raise the cost of listing an item to the current cost of shill bidding. Think that might have an effect on shill bids?

If you're trying to change fundamental economic conditions by gimicking exchange mechanisms, please go become the Zimbabwean Minister of Economics or something but don't lobby to mess up the DDO economy.

[LordMond]

This ^^^ I want this! This makes it very easy for posters of items to see what they could get for it quickly. If they want to charge more and maybe wait longer, more power to them. This would make being a 'seller' so much easier.

Add in text search on the item title and being a buyer would be even easier. Then you dont have to wade through 50 pages of ice games stuff to find what you want. That would being a 'buyer' a lot easier.

If prices are still outrageous, so be it.

Sneak-

I do hate to throw cold water on the subject but, given the fact that the game is years old and there is still no searchable auction house and given the fact that the same company offers another game that does have a searchable auction house. what do you think the chances are that they will implement the suggestion you quote?

Don't get me wrong....I'm all for the idea. But nothing I see makes me think that updating the Auction House is in the top 100 things they want to do for (to?) the game.

[Archer001]

Suggestion:

When the item is listed the seller is made to pay a deposit based on the minimum initial bid, if the item sells this amount is returned in full. However, the auction house take a percentage of the final bid but not necessarily a high or indeed static percentage.

The percentage taken from the final value can be scaled in a similar way to uk tax bands: first X plat a%, X to Y play b%, Y to Z plat c%, Z%+ d%; possibly with many more grading to reflect the wide range of marketable prices. (note a<b<c, X<Y<Z)

This operates in a manner not too dissimilar from real world auctions (this is very similar to how eBay works), and it shouldn't weight the auction system to favour low-mid-high level.

[Lorz]

Funny how people don't seem to get.....you raise this for one...you lose a ton of people posting goods on AH.

Simply put I don't drops lots on the AH....i don't have too..I tend to stick the nice more expensive items on it. Lessor items aren't worth my time/trouble. Simply put raise the bar and guess what....I'll only stick the for sure sell items ...... Which means probably nothing....now I tend to undercut...because if i stick it on AH i want it to sell fast. As for portable holes...I find it funny that new players rush to buy one off ah....you do realize you get one free for 75 from GH favor. Heck about a year ago I stuck 60 on the AH in a row....50k gold each...... Got tired of looking at them.


My point is you start screwing with the economy and you will regret it. You are not smarter than what your working with.

[MrLarone]

First, to the guy (not) selling scales for 100k plat. Know why they arent selling? Because it's a dragon scale! Its not worth 100k plat! I see people selling blue scales on the AH on Thelanis all the time for 150k plat and it's absurd. Its not a rare item. Its not even a hard to get item. It's an ANNOYING to get item. But that doesnt make it worth that much.

that's me.

and that was kinda of my point. i've searched the AH for months and asked anyone i've encountered who seems to have a decent idea of what things go for and that's the price i've seen....

consistently.

who and how is one to know?

[TPICKRELL]

The problem with all these "but it's just supply and demand, so get over it" responses is they don't hold true.

I've been playing all of 6 weeks? 2 months? I got my first collapsed portable hole off the AH about a month ago, for 18K. There were typically less than 5 listed at any given time.

Check out the prices on that same item now. 65K...85K...100K...200K, even; and there are now 8-10 listed on the AH at any given time.

Supply has *increased*, and the asking price has gone up 3-10x in a month. Even *if* there were a 10x increase in F2P players, supply has outpaced that.

I'm not sure the OP's suggestion is the greatest thing since bread by the slice, but the Chicago school, "the market knows all" approach to economics doesn't hold water.I don't care one way or the other, but I think the data you include refute your own comments. The SUPPLY is not the 8-10 in the auction house, it's all the portable holes sitting in inventories that could be listed on the AH(plus the news ones being pulled each day).

I'm not plat rich, but I also have enough plat to buy everything I need and most everything I really want. At 18K I'll hold onto the stack of 6 portable holes I have in my bank and give them to guildies or friends who need them. As the price goes up I'm more tempted to dip into my stash and sell one. Similarly a newbie will be more tempted to sell their first portable hole to get plat.

When you bought yours at 18K plat there were less than 5 available. At the prospect of getting a noticeably higher price (65K...85K...100K...200K) more of the available supply has been listed on the AH. I'm still not willing to sell any of mine, I don't need the plat and I'd rather have them for guildies. But more people (8-10 on your AH) are willing to part with them if they can get (65K...85K...100K...200K).

[LordDamax]

The problem with all these "but it's just supply and demand, so get over it" responses is they don't hold true.

I've been playing all of 6 weeks? 2 months? I got my first collapsed portable hole off the AH about a month ago, for 18K. There were typically less than 5 listed at any given time.


Check out the prices on that same item now. 65K...85K...100K...200K, even; and there are now 8-10 listed on the AH at any given time.


Supply has *increased*, and the asking price has gone up 3-10x in a month. Even *if* there were a 10x increase in F2P players, supply has outpaced that.

The ASKING price has gone up. Not what its SELLING for.

I'll say it again: If something survives on the AH for 2 days, thats the price its NOT selling for. Just because I list a portable hold for half a million plat doesnt make it WORTH that much. I have about 14 in the bank. If I buy all on the AH, then relist them plus my 14 each at 350k plat, and there are 20 up there, that doesnt mean they are WORTH 350k plat. It means I'm a jackhole and too stupid to know they wont sell for that.

I'm so sick and tired of people seeing the "too high wont sell for" price on the AH and saying "Thats what they are worth!"

Just because I put a rock from my yard on ebay for $300 doesnt mean a chunk of stone is worth $300.

I dont understand it.

[chrichton]

TO me that would just be plain foolish.

Quick scenario: I want to sell my ubber +5 Metalline kopesh of pure good for 15 million with 10 million base bid price. But hey I don't want to pay high posting fees. So I post it with initial 1 gold bid price and buy-out of 15 million. Then I go and bid on it for 10 million. If nobody bid higher than me I get my ubber item back at no cost.

This way the AH would go broke in no time.

Just my 1 cent..
The game could easily not allow bids from the same account. this would not eliminate what you are suggesting, but it sure would cut it down and make 'friends' more cautious about how much money they invest in their 'friendship' :p

[chrichton]

The game could easily not allow bids from the same account. this would not eliminate what you are suggesting, but it sure would cut it down and make 'friends' more cautious about how much money they invest in their 'friendship' :p
Never mind - I forgot about the whole F2P thing . . .