Best of Khopesh?

[h4x0r1f1c]

What's better for a lvl 20 warforged fighter with TwF feats?

The Mineral II Khopesh thing or the Lightning Strike Khopesh?

[stormarcher]

Min II for bosses

Lit II for trash

[theb]

Epic Chaosblades for trash :p.

[h4x0r1f1c]

Can I get some more input on this? And some reasons why this is better than this, ect.?

And should I usually have two Mineral II weapons, two Lightning Strike weapons, or one of each?

And if I do one of each, which hand should which weapon be in?

[eulogy098]

Mineral 2 is the go-to weapon for any melee build and should, imo, be the first Greensteel anyone and everyone crafts.

[Dark-Star]

LS2 is a far beter all around DPS weapon, and comparable in DPS on bosses on normal setting to Min2s.

If you run hard and elite often, either work towards building a set of Min2's, or buy a set of decent boss beaters from the AH.

[Goldeneye]

MinII vs. LitII (u5) (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=263033)


This topic comes up again, and again, however most of the forums posts on this subject are at least a year old, and use shroud as their example of end-game content. I haven't really payed attention to how MinII compared w/ LitII in the new content.

MinII:

Holy
Acid Burst
Acid Blast
Slicing 1d4


pro: Breaks DR
con: Many bosses resistant to acid

LitII:

Holy
Shock Burst
Shock Blast
Lighting Strike ~550-600, 2%


pro: lighting strike
pro: no resistance to electric on many bosses
con: doesn't break boss DR

As far as I understand, the benefit of MinII over LitII, is when an enemies' DR, (that isn't bypasses by LitII), exceeds 20. Taking into account the current end-game content, and possible future content, how does the MinII, compare to LitII?



The other factors are glancing blows (favors Min 2 against foes with DR), electrical immunity (Lailat only, favors Min 2), and whether or not you own good other DR breakers.

Here's the comparison. A 'modest amount' is about 5 damage per swing. A 'long way' is close to 10 damage per swing. A weapon outclasses another if it is noticeably more than 10 damage per swing ahead.

Raids:

Pit Fiend Raids, Normal: Lit 2 superior by a modest amount
Pit Fiend Raids, Hard: Min 2 superior by a modest amount
Pit Fiend Raids, Elite: Min 2 outclasses Lit 2
Epic Lailat: Min 2 outclasses Lit 2
Epic Velah: Lit 2 outclasses Min 2
Abbot: Not important, DPS plays only a minor role in this raid
Hound: Not important, DPS is extremely unimportant in this raid

Tough Quests:

Amrath Elite: Lit 2 ahead by a long way
Epic OOB: Lit 2 outclasses Min 2
Epic Wiz-King: Blunt is the key here, both are pretty bad unless blunt.
Epic VON1-3: Lit 2 outclasses Min 2
Epic Big Top: Not sure, haven't tested Malicia's susceptability to various elements, nor her DR.
Epic Sentinels: Run too little of it to know.

Levelling a TR:

In general, Lit 2 outclasses Min 2 as DR is rare.

In

Normal Shroud
Normal Vod
Normal ToD
Almost all non-Desert Epics
Amrath
99% of non-end-game quests

LitII > MinII

[Morlen]

Can I get some more input on this? And some reasons why this is better than this, ect.?

And should I usually have two Mineral II weapons, two Lightning Strike weapons, or one of each?

And if I do one of each, which hand should which weapon be in?

From my understanding, while Lightning Strike will deal more damage overall Min II will bypass most raid bosses DR and thus will help bring down the big guys faster. My opinion would be to start with a MinII (possibly with Insight4, if you have AC build in.). Not only is the DR bypass great, but the stoneskin clickies can be a lifesaver as well. On my TWF, I am also debating crafting one of each. He has his MinII for Intimitanking but I am curious to see first hand what kind of mess Lightning Strike can make.

[grodon9999]

Min II for bosses

Lit II for trash

What he said.

[Goldeneye]

0 Dr:

lightning Strike (2% 600 Lighting Damage) = 12 Damage Per Hit
Incineration (5% 300 Fire Damage) = 15 Damage Per Hit
Crushing Wave (5% 3 Ticks 35 Cold+35 Bludgeon) = 10.5 Damage Per Hit
Radiance Rapier (30% Crit 4d6 Light Damage) = 4.2 Damage Per Hit
Slicing ( 100% D4 Slicing Damage) = 2.5 Damage Per Hit




against Fiends, If Their Dr Is 15 Or Under, Lightning 2 Is Better. 20 It's A Wash, 25+ Mineral 2 Outclasses Lightning 2. So For Shroud Normal Farming, Lightning 2 Is Better For All Builds And All Classes.

For General Purpose Dps, Lightning 2 Is Usually 10-15 Damage Ahead Per Swing. (that's More Than The Difference Between A +5 Holy Burst Of Pure Good And A +5 Weapon).

For Unusual Dr And Elite/epic Bosses (golems, Epic Lailat, Elite Shroud) Mineral 2 Outclasses Lightning 2.


with A 2% Proc Rate L2 Does 12 Damage A Hit. Also All The Devils Have Acid Resistance. So 12 A Hit + Acid Resistance Means That It Actually Crushes Mineral 2 Vs All The Devils On Normal. Those Without Acid Resistance They Have To Have Dr10 For Transmuting+slicing To Be Better.

Normal devil raid bosses have resistance to acid (MinII) . So lighting strike + electric damage will actually do more damage then the 15 DR that MinII bypasses on normal.

[grodon9999]

Nothing to see here . . . my calcs were wrong . . .

[Goldeneye]

Remember to subtract the resistance to acid (10+ points)


Acid Burst 1d6 + 2d10 (crit) = average 3.5 + 11 (crit)
Acid Blast 2d10 (crit) 4d6 (20) = average 11 + 14 (crit)
Slicing 1d4 (are bosses vunerable to bleeding?) = average 2.5


Arraetrikos (http://ddowiki.com/page/Arraetrikos)
* CR 28/33/38 on Normal/Hard/Elite
* Lawful Evil Pit Fiend (Lawful Evil Outsider)
* HP Incredible - Estimated around 350,000/700,00/1 Million+ (Normal/Hard/Elite)
* AC 39/45/51 (Normal/Hard/Elite)
* 50% Fortification on Normal, Hard, and Elite (tested)
* DR 15/Silver+Good, this increases on Hard/Elite setting (Hard 25?, Elite 34-35) (tested)
* Immunity to fire and poison
* Resistance to acid 10 and cold 30 (Normal), roughly ~50 point on Elite
* No resistance to electricity and sonic (confirmed)
* Evasion (Hard/Elite only)
* SR 36/38/42 depending on difficulty

[dkyle]

but keep in mind what you lose in the crits.

Considering the burst damage is not affected by fortification, that's a pretty big omission. For a khopesh, thats 4/20 * 5.5 * 2 * 2 [burst & blast] + 1/20 * 3.5 * 4 [nat 20 blast] = 5.1 average damage per hit. 12 + 3.5 +5.1 = 20.6 > 15 + 2.5 = 17.5.

edit: difference is even greater than for Kenseis. The above applies for all TWF Khopesh with IC:Slashing

[Goldeneye]

18 fighter = +1 crit range.
Khopesh 19-20
Imp crit 17-20
kensei III 16-20

5/20 hits will be crits

[grodon9999]

Nothing to see here . . . my calcs were wrong . . .

[flynnjsw]

Mineral 2 is the go-to weapon for any melee build and should, imo, be the first Greensteel anyone and everyone crafts.

This is not entirely true; a Paladin with Holy Sword (lvl 14 for a pure) really has no need for a Min2 and is better using Lit2 on everything except Raid bosses where you use Holy Sword.

[Goldeneye]

Holy/shock/shock or Holy, Shocking Burst, Shocking Blast?

I can't say anything for sure until I do the numbers myself, but Min II coming ahead of Lit II against standard norm raid boss doesn't seem right.

[grodon9999]

Holy/shock/shock or Holy, Shocking Burst, Shocking Blast?

Holy, Shocking Burst, Shocking Blast. I just always shorten it.

[dkyle]

With one of the Lightning Strike Khopeshes Holy/shock/+4 AC

I don't think many people put +4 AC on their LS Khopeshes. Still, that shouldn't be enough to make MinII win.

[grodon9999]

Nothing to see here . . . my calcs were wrong . . .

[incineration]

By 1 point.

Keep in mind, Lightings lose 15 points on normal hits, 45 on crits. Min IIs also get 2.5 a hit in Slicing damage. So that's 17.5 on normal hits, 47.5 on crits higher base damage.

The Lighting-strike is only worth 12 points a shot regardless of crit. This is assuming 600 points every 50 swings from a 2% proc-rate.

Shock is 3.5 on non-crits.

The Shock blast/burst is worth 28 points on a crit, 42 on a natural 20.

My average damage per hit in the main/off hand for Mineral IIs is 80.75 and 72.125

My average damage per hit in the main/off hand for Lighning IIs is 82.15 and 70.025 (Insight weapon that I haven't even crafted yet, would be 73.525 if it was holy.shock.shock).

It's VERY close, in fact in my case I'll get the best DPS on normal with the lightning II in the Main and Mineral II in the off. Kinda works out because I haven't crafted the second Lighting yet :)

Why does it lose extra damage on crits? the DR is subtracted after the damage is multiplied last i checked

[grodon9999]

Why does it lose extra damage on crits? the DR is subtracted after the damage is multiplied last i checked

Then I'm wrong. But am I? Somebody's gotta know for certain. If that's the case Lightning's are clearly better. 15 DPS better.

I'm glad you pointed that out, I hate going off of wrong information.

[Trillea]

Then I'm wrong. But am I? Somebody's gotta know for certain. If that's the case Lightning's are clearly better.

DR is definitely calculated after multiplying damage. So a DR 10 with a 15 damage average is 5 damage on a normal hit and 35 on a crit.

[grodon9999]

DR is definitely calculated after multiplying damage. So a DR 10 with a 15 damage average is 5 damage on a normal hit and 35 on a crit.

Thanks, I deleted my wrong posts so I don't contribute to spreading false information.

[Rawel_San]

I am wondering how the actual amount of hp's of mobs effects the equation. If you're
fighting mobs that on average have 3000+ hp's then I'm guessing that the normal
"who does more damage" calculation works fine, but what if your mobs on average have
300 or 500 hp's? This by the way may be more interesting for TR's then for real
endgame content.

Has anyone wondered/calculated this?
Best,
Rawel

[dkyle]

I am wondering how the actual amount of hp's of mobs effects the equation. If you're
fighting mobs that on average have 3000+ hp's then I'm guessing that the normal
"who does more damage" calculation works fine, but what if your mobs on average have
300 or 500 hp's? This by the way may be more interesting for TR's then for real
endgame content.

Not sure how to quantify this into numbers, but Lightning Strike is definitely at a disadvantage in that case, as you're more likely to waste the extra damage from the Strike overkilling a mob. In general, high damage with low proc rate suffers when fighting large numbers of low HP mobs. Unless the HP are exactly set such that the 1d4 from bleeding on MinIIs gets you a one-hit on average, vs two-hits on the LitII, I suspect you're better off with the LitII in general.

[Goldeneye]

LitII will still win. plus, it will be 10x more fun:
hearing a crack of thunder, and the enemy before you goes from 100% to dead :)

[Fionivar]

Random addition,

Epic Big Top Succubus DR is good, so Lit II would be better than Min II.

[bendover]

Since the OP doesn't leave the Lobster Dust II's would be the best for you.