Wretched Twilight and Ninja Spy

[Hokonoso]

Do they stack? wretched twilight has ghostly which is 10% concealment, does it stack with the 25% incorporeal from ninja spy? my guess it does but no idea how to test this as i cant tell the diff from 25 or 35% miss chance lol

[Angelus_dead]

Do they stack? wretched twilight has ghostly which is 10% concealment, does it stack with the 25% incorporeal from ninja spy? my guess it does but no idea how to test this as i cant tell the diff from 25 or 35% miss chance lol
Despite some of the text, Wretched Twilight doesn't provide anything related to incorporeal defense. It gives you 10% concealment, which will frequently do nothing as it doesn't stack with 20% Blur or 50% Displacement.

The 25% incorporeal miss chance will combine with any concealment, but not stack additively like 10+25 = 35%. Instead someone with both the cloak and ninja buff would have a 32.5% miss chance.

[Inspire]

Despite some of the text, Wretched Twilight doesn't provide anything related to incorporeal defense. It gives you 10% concealment, which will frequently do nothing as it doesn't stack with 20% Blur or 50% Displacement.

Actually Wretched Twilight gives a 20% concealment bonus, the same as the Blur spell. The text is misleading and states that it only grants 10%. Just re-tested it to make sure that it wasn't changed in a recent update:

(Combat): You roll to see if you can hit Outland through their concealment. You roll a 16 (+0): blur!'

[oweieie]

Nice it's 20%. Is there a list of incorrect text descriptions around? I'm sure it would be a VERY large list.

[Mister_Peace]

So 20% blur and 25% incorporeal stack for 40% then.

[Inspire]

So 20% blur and 25% incorporeal stack for 40% then.

Math fail.

[hydra_ex]

Math fail.

Actually, he's right, assuming they stack multiplicatively as A_D described (albeit with incorrect data) above.

Chance To Hit = Product of (1-MissChancei)
Thus, Concealment = 1-ChanceToHit.

In our case, (1-20%)*(1-25%)=60%. So an 80% hit chance and 75% hit chance detract multiplicatively for a reduced 60% miss chance. Thus, you have a 40% miss chance.

[Hokonoso]

after further testing i can say it is blur, cause when blur is casted the icon disappears when cloak is equipped and when someone hits me it says blur instead of concealed so it would make sense to be 20%. very nice to get a 40% miss chance without any buffs on myself :)

too bad this doesnt stack with shadow walk (displacement) :(

[Inspire]

Actually, he's right

I just did the testing to confrim that with Wretched Twilight & Shadow Fade and Blur and Shadow Fade you have 32% concealment from Blurry and Incorpreal(Ie; I was hitting the person on a 33 +0 against his concealment).

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/InspireJonathan/ScreenShot00008.jpg

36 +0 Success, still not 40%.

[mjrepro]

I just did the testing to confrim that with Wretched Twilight & Shadow Fade and Blur and Shadow Fade you have 32% concealment from Blurry and Incorpreal(Ie; I was hitting the person on a 33 +0 against his concealment).

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/InspireJonathan/ScreenShot00008.jpg

36 +0 Success, still not 40%.

The thing to note is it is not one role that you need to make to hit through it. You roll for the blur, and if make that check, you then roll for the incorpreal.

So you are missed 20% of the time, and then 25% of those people miss you also, and you get only 60% hitting you.

With Displacement this jumps to 37.5% chance to hit you.

Edit: I do not see where you rolled against incorpreal in your picture. While I understand you could argue that it was the one roll, I see the two different text floating over my head when being attack, Blur and Incorpreal when being attacked. So they are different rolls since they are different types (blur and incorpreal)

[Inspire]

So they are different rolls since they are different types (blur and incorpreal)

I only had to roll once to get through the combined concealment. Will test further tonight.

[Fafnir]

Doesn't that roll suggest 10% from the cloak and 25% from incorporeal? i.e. .9 x .75