A few DoS questions

[AylinIsAwesome]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could help me with the following (in no particular order):

1. Can you still Tumble while in stance?

2. How long does Glorious Stand last?

3. Is the hate from the PrE still broken?

4. Will hate from the DoS set stack with Divine Righteousness and Warforged Brute Fighting? Is it additive or multiplicative?

5. What exactly does Glorious Stand protect you against (the secondary effects)?

6. The DoS PrE mentions strengthening Auras...which ones and how much?

7. Will 61 self-buffed Intim be enough for most things (both epic and non-epic)?

8. Is 557 HP (before Yugoloth pot) good enough?

9. Does Madstone rage stack with the stance? If so, is it worth getting the boots?

10. Will saves of 44/30/30 be alright for tanking?

12. Will a raid-buffed AC of 82 be enough? And self-buffed 74? Also asking for Epics.

13. Is the Docent of Defiance worth it even though the bonus is only +4 (reducing AC to 79)?

14. Does the slow movement speed stack with other slow effects, like Chains?

15. For my final docent, I'm thinking Epic Blademark's Docent with Toughness and +6 CHA in the slots. Is this a good choice or is there a better docent to wear?


Thank you for your help. :)

[Zapkill]

Dont have an answer for all questions but here are the ones i know:

7 - yes
8 - yes
10 - yes

Those are the ones im just about sure of, other ones not positive and dont want to give you the wrng info.

[Baahb3]

Like before, I don't have all the answers but:

1. Yes.

6. Your Bulwork of Good AC bonus goes to +5 making it +6 total.

9. Madstone does work with stance though you cannot activate it while the stance is active. In other words you need to activate your boots then go into stance. You also will not get the madstone to proc while in stance, making it difficult to be 'double madstoned'.

10. Yes

12. 82 should be good for non-epic quests

14. Yes it does, more so with Update 5 you can no longer tumble while slow effects are on you like the chains Sulu casts on you.

[Quikster]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could help me with the following (in no particular order):

1. Can you still Tumble while in stance? yes

2. How long does Glorious Stand last? 30 seconds with 300 second cooldown

3. Is the hate from the PrE still broken?Many suspect so, but i havent seen any conclusive testing

4. Will hate from the DoS set stack with Divine Righteousness and Warforged Brute Fighting? Is it additive or multiplicative? yes they seem to, but nobody really knows how they stack. Ive seen some people make claims but never with anything that really supports their claims

5. What exactly does Glorious Stand protect you against (the secondary effects)?iirc its effects like weakening, vorpal, etc. being that its such a short duration i dont have an exhaustive list.

6. The DoS PrE mentions strengthening Auras...which ones and how much? by 1

7. Will 61 self-buffed Intim be enough for most things (both epic and non-epic)?If by most things you mean all the trash, yes, if by most things you mean raid bosses, no. You will be able to get some on some difficulties, but not lock all on a 1 on all difficulties.

8. Is 557 HP (before Yugoloth pot) good enough? I like to have 600+ for horoth tanking, but 550+ would suffice in most circumstances. You might die occasionally though

9. Does Madstone rage stack with the stance? If so, is it worth getting the boots?Yes and no. If you madstone, then go into stance the madstone remains but will not reproc while in stance. If you have multiple sets of boots you can remain madstoned for a long time as they will never proc in stance. So hit madstone, drop into stance, when ready to remadstone drop out of stance and repeat. Some suspect its a bug that it works at all. I would recommend getting them however if you have the chance. Its nice to have at least 1 set.

10. Will saves of 44/30/30 be alright for tanking?those saves are fine so long as you arent planning on using that reflex for evasion in high end content. You will see benifit from it, but you will take damage on more than a 1

12. Will a raid-buffed AC of 82 be enough? And self-buffed 74? Also asking for Epics.
for most raids yes. However if you are planning on elite raiding and this is with a shield, you may need more intimidate to hold agro

13. Is the Docent of Defiance worth it even though the bonus is only +4 (reducing AC to 79)? If you have one, it would work well in situations where you know you will be getting hit at the higher ac, but if you are trying to maximize ac, prolly not

14. Does the slow movement speed stack with other slow effects, like Chains?yes

15. For my final docent, I'm thinking Epic Blademark's Docent with Toughness and +6 CHA in the slots. Is this a good choice or is there a better docent to wear? Im not up to date on docent ac, so have to get this from someone else :)


Thank you for your help. :)

In lime

[AylinIsAwesome]

1. Can you still Tumble while in stance? yes

Awesome. :)


2. How long does Glorious Stand last? 30 seconds with 300 second cooldown

That seems a tad useless then. :/


3. Is the hate from the PrE still broken?Many suspect so, but i havent seen any conclusive testing

4. Will hate from the DoS set stack with Divine Righteousness and Warforged Brute Fighting? Is it additive or multiplicative? yes they seem to, but nobody really knows how they stack. Ive seen some people make claims but never with anything that really supports their claims

Good to know. Hopefully I'll be able to draw aggro from hate when I try; it was my entire reason for choosing Warforged. Guessing that using a two-hander to get initial hate, then switching to S&B when I have it would work?


5. What exactly does Glorious Stand protect you against (the secondary effects)?iirc its effects like weakening, vorpal, etc. being that its such a short duration i dont have an exhaustive list.

6. The DoS PrE mentions strengthening Auras...which ones and how much? by 1

Thanks for the info.


7. Will 61 self-buffed Intim be enough for most things (both epic and non-epic)?If by most things you mean all the trash, yes, if by most things you mean raid bosses, no. You will be able to get some on some difficulties, but not lock all on a 1 on all difficulties.

My intim will really be 62 (forgot to add in Fighter Intim 1). Which bosses won't I be able to lock down?


8. Is 557 HP (before Yugoloth pot) good enough? I like to have 600+ for horoth tanking, but 550+ would suffice in most circumstances. You might die occasionally though

Ok. With a Yugoloth pot and Madstone rage I should be well above 600 HP. I'm considering trying to get a Scourge Choker for occasions when all that matters is locking the mob down and shield blocking (and not wear it the rest of the time), but I'm not sure if that's worth it or not.


9. Does Madstone rage stack with the stance? If so, is it worth getting the boots?Yes and no. If you madstone, then go into stance the madstone remains but will not reproc while in stance. If you have multiple sets of boots you can remain madstoned for a long time as they will never proc in stance. So hit madstone, drop into stance, when ready to remadstone drop out of stance and repeat. Some suspect its a bug that it works at all. I would recommend getting them however if you have the chance. Its nice to have at least 1 set.

Cool! I'll probably only try for a single pair (my equipment list is already pretty grind-tastic), but I won't complain if I get a second pair at all. :)


10. Will saves of 44/30/30 be alright for tanking?those saves are fine so long as you arent planning on using that reflex for evasion in high end content. You will see benifit from it, but you will take damage on more than a 1

Fighter 2/Paladin 18, so no Evasion to speak of. :)


12. Will a raid-buffed AC of 82 be enough? And self-buffed 74? Also asking for Epics.
for most raids yes. However if you are planning on elite raiding and this is with a shield, you may need more intimidate to hold agro

That is with a shield. :( Not shield-blocking though, just swinging a weapon while holding one. I believe blocking adds something like +5? Would that be enough?


13. Is the Docent of Defiance worth it even though the bonus is only +4 (reducing AC to 79)? If you have one, it would work well in situations where you know you will be getting hit at the higher ac, but if you are trying to maximize ac, prolly not

I suppose getting one for when the mobs cut through my AC like paper wouldn't be a bad idea, I'd just need to put the +6 CHA on another slot then.


14. Does the slow movement speed stack with other slow effects, like Chains?yes

Ouch.


15. For my final docent, I'm thinking Epic Blademark's Docent with Toughness and +6 CHA in the slots. Is this a good choice or is there a better docent to wear? Im not up to date on docent ac, so have to get this from someone else

Ok.

Thanks for the help Quik. :)

[Quikster]

My intim will really be 62 (forgot to add in Fighter Intim 1). Which bosses won't I be able to lock down?

W/typical buffs

62
4 gh
2 bardsong
_________
68

With 68 you should be able to get Xyzzy on normal sullu on elite, Liliat on elite, Horoth on hard, and Reaver elite. Should be fine for abbot and harry as theres not often a main tank method with those two. I personally dont remember the dcs on shroud and abbot.




Good to know. Hopefully I'll be able to draw aggro from hate when I try; it was my entire reason for choosing Warforged. Guessing that using a two-hander to get initial hate, then switching to S&B when I have it would work?

Prolly not unless you are running with weak dps. If you are in a solid dps group, you need to keep the hate going. I used to tank horoth s&b but that was when the raid came out, people without boots were ranging until he banished, then coming in to melee for a minute. I would hit divine righteousness at that point and be able to hold agro. Once booties were the standard I stopped being able to hold agro s&b.


Ok. With a Yugoloth pot and Madstone rage I should be well above 600 HP. I'm considering trying to get a Scourge Choker for occasions when all that matters is locking the mob down and shield blocking (and not wear it the rest of the time), but I'm not sure if that's worth it or not.

Prolly 1 of two times a choker is worth using. Its not 100% dependable, but if all you are going to do is intimidate and turtle, might as well put one on :) The only time iI see this being prohibitive is if you are using the finger necklace and being healed by a divine. Often with a wf'd turtle against a horned devil, Ill have a divine heal them, esp a divine healbot spec. Curses arent an issue if you are always shield blocking. But whatever you can carry both or neither, wont make or brake you.



That is with a shield. Not shield-blocking though, just swinging a weapon while holding one. I believe blocking adds something like +5? Would that be enough?

Prolly be fine. There are benchmarks for each raid on each difficulty with and without exhaustion. Now that exhaustion actually works correct those benchmarks are less important. Basically if you are lower than that mark youre going to take a bit more damage :) If the group has a better tank, let them use it and pull out your two hander. Always fun showing your not a 1 trick pony.


I suppose getting one for when the mobs cut through my AC like paper wouldn't be a bad idea, I'd just need to put the +6 CHA on another slot then.

Not sure what your gear set looks like, but if you are using a chattering ring, you can drop that for cha when going the dr route. Also think helm or cloak :) Outside of those options, you can craft a set of epic bracers with +6 cha on em if needed, or you can craft a +9 cha weapon to use in these circumstances, or +X cha and healing amp weapon. Lots of choices.

[AylinIsAwesome]

W/typical buffs

62
4 gh
2 bardsong
_________
68

With 68 you should be able to get Xyzzy on normal sullu on elite, Liliat on elite, Horoth on hard, and Reaver elite. Should be fine for abbot and harry as theres not often a main tank method with those two. I personally dont remember the dcs on shroud and abbot.

I was counting GH as part of my self-buffs, since there are a huge number of clickies for it, so only 64 total. :(






Prolly not unless you are running with weak dps. If you are in a solid dps group, you need to keep the hate going. I used to tank horoth s&b but that was when the raid came out, people without boots were ranging until he banished, then coming in to melee for a minute. I would hit divine righteousness at that point and be able to hold agro. Once booties were the standard I stopped being able to hold agro s&b.

I'll have to figure out some way to make it useful then. :)

Perhaps just as a way of keeping aggro off of squishy people when in DPS mode.




Prolly 1 of two times a choker is worth using.

What's the other time? ^^



Not sure what your gear set looks like, but if you are using a chattering ring, you can drop that for cha when going the dr route. Also think helm or cloak :) Outside of those options, you can craft a set of epic bracers with +6 cha on em if needed, or you can craft a +9 cha weapon to use in these circumstances, or +X cha and healing amp weapon. Lots of choices.

Ahh, good thinking on the ring.

Don't think I could do the bracers though as I plan on using Chaosgarde, unless there's another source of +2 dodge I don't know about? o_O

[Quikster]

I was counting GH as part of my self-buffs, since there are a huge number of clickies for it, so only 64 total. :(


I'll have to figure out some way to make it useful then. :)

Perhaps just as a way of keeping aggro off of squishy people when in DPS mode.



What's the other time? ^^




Ahh, good thinking on the ring.

Don't think I could do the bracers though as I plan on using Chaosgarde, unless there's another source of +2 dodge I don't know about? o_O

choker is good whenever you are going to get hit, and arent trying to dps, ill leave it at that.

Bracers would be ok as they are fairly easy to get, and the only time youre going to use em is when you are in dr mode because you are getting hit anyway. Which means the 2 ac loss is negligible. Other times you leave your chaosguardes on, and whatever your normal cha item is.


As for intimidate. Are you counting the new trinket that once epic is another +5?

[AylinIsAwesome]

I wasn't counting that, thanks for the idea! :)

I had been planning on Head of Good Fortune in that slot, but Epic Brawn's Spirit's is +3 from that (+5 if I can put Good Luck on some epic item, just not sure what yet).

[Quikster]

I wasn't counting that, thanks for the idea! :)

I had been planning on Head of Good Fortune in that slot, but Epic Brawn's Spirit's is +3 from that (+5 if I can put Good Luck on some epic item, just not sure what yet).

I dont have one yet, but im pretty sure it has a green slot. You can slot it with +2 luck for +7 total intimidate.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Ooooh... And 'till then I am a Paladin; I can cast Prayer on myself for +1 Intim...

So a 67 Intim will work on most raids? I think I remember Xyzzy being around there? Epic DQ being 75ish?

[Junts]

set properly stacks with righteousness


brute fighting is broken and cant co-exist with power attack; its bad



red scale docent is the path to the best ac available.

[AylinIsAwesome]

set properly stacks with righteousness


brute fighting is broken and cant co-exist with power attack; its bad

Drat. Well, at least I'll save 6 AP then.




red scale docent is the path to the best ac available.

Question is, is getting +1 AC worth the grind for getting it?

I still only have a handfull of scales for one.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Actually, how much content would an AC of 69 to 77 be? If I craft a Mineral 2 Falchion with Insight +4 AC and use Shield wands that's all I'd lose, and my Hate generation should be a lot higher that way.

EDIT: Would be S&B for bosses, Falchion with shield wand for trash. Would that work out?

[Quikster]

77 ac will be fine for a lot of things on normal.

Prayer is luck bonus so wont stack with other things you have.

[davidcampa]

I will say it looks good.

I would recomend trying to get intim to about 70 and that will fetch pretty much everything but hound Elite and DQ EPIC No Biggie

Also A good DR is What I find most useful while blocking and Intiming, More so than pushing the AC to the max.

[AylinIsAwesome]

77 ac will be fine for a lot of things on normal.

Prayer is luck bonus so wont stack with other things you have.

I meant use Prayer until I get Good Luck crafted onto the Epic Brawn's Spirits.

Also it'll give mobs near -1 to-hit and damage, so I'd probably still cast it anyway.

[Junts]

Drat. Well, at least I'll save 6 AP then.





Question is, is getting +1 AC worth the grind for getting it?

I still only have a handfull of scales for one.

Ahh its only 1 ac for wf, that's true; its two ac for everyone else.

77 is a fine ac, but you can go considerably higher; Jaerlach self-buffs to around 79 these days, though usually 74 because I hate combat expertise.

I'll push my raid number over 90 with red dragonscale.

I really need to update my build post.


Glorious stand is a situational thing, but its incredibly potent and hence it can be quite useful, since it:

gives a stacking 100% healing amp (meaning if you are sitting at 145% healing, you will have 290% with stand going)
dr 20
half damage from all elemental and negative attacks

The supposed cure light when you're hit doesn't function, and its too bad because with the healing amp it wuold amount to around 15-20 damage healed per attack.

most importantly, glorious stand makes you immune to secondary attack functions. This is most useful for becoming immune to overrun and other knockdown attacks. I use it while using a 2hander at the end of Demon Queen, and can just go to town on her since she can't knock me down.

I've also used it to push inferno damage down to around 40 damage a tick and easily survived the inferno without even having to heal myself through it.

You could also use it to basically tank death shadows in tod pt 2 if something was going wrong, if you also have a cold absorption weapon. Put it on with stand up a fireshield effect from scroll or the glacier bracers and you could drive their damage down to nonexistent levels for 30 seconds.

30 seconds can be a really long time: long enough for you to raise 2 favored souls and a caster, for htem to rebuff, and start raising others .. just as an example.

Its not something you use on a day to day basis, outside of knockdown immunity.

[Quikster]

Prayer gives mobs -1 to attack if I hit them with it, which isn't replaced by my other gear. That's what I meant.

I'm not sure that prayer lowers there intim dc though, which is what I thought you meant by prayer gives you + 1 to intim.

I don't remember wf'd brute fighting not working with pa. Something may have changed I guess....will look into later.

[Junts]

I'm not sure that prayer lowers there intim dc though, which is what I thought you meant by prayer gives you + 1 to intim.

I don't remember wf'd brute fighting not working with pa. Something may have changed I guess....will look into later.

It wont lower the intimidate dc.

The bonus from prayer doesn't stack with voice/head of gf for intimidation purposes.

WF brute fighting doesn't work under some incredibly important circumstance, but i cannot remember which one as I don't have a warforged.

It might be rage, for barbarians.

My memory is hazy, because warforged aren't people.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I'm not sure that prayer lowers there intim dc though, which is what I thought you meant by prayer gives you + 1 to intim.

I don't remember wf'd brute fighting not working with pa. Something may have changed I guess....will look into later.

Yeah, I'm tired and I wrote the wrong thing (confused myself).

I've edited to say what I really mean. Opps.

[AylinIsAwesome]

WF brute fighting doesn't work under some incredibly important circumstance, but i cannot remember which one as I don't have a warforged.

It might be rage, for barbarians.

My memory is hazy, because warforged aren't people.

I'll keep one level of it until I pick up Power Attack, and see if it doesn't work at the same time or something like that.


If I don't notice any benefits I guess I'll just drop it altogether.




I'll probably also try to get Epic Red Dragonscale Docent... Played around with the non-Epic Bladesmark docent and frankly wasn't that impressed with it. Lifeshield hardly ever seemed to proc, and 15 temp HP in an epic quest seems a bit of a joke to me, especially with how low the proc rate seems. In the meantime I'd probably go for Dragontouched, since it's relatively easy to get.


EDIT: Oh, would you be able to give me Jaerlach's current AC breakdown? I know ~3 points behind from what's currently listed in your thread from not having the same DEX and no Dodge, but now it seems like a 5 point difference.

[Junts]

I'll keep one level of it until I pick up Power Attack, and see if it doesn't work at the same time or something like that.


If I don't notice any benefits I guess I'll just drop it altogether.




I'll probably also try to get Epic Red Dragonscale Docent... Played around with the non-Epic Bladesmark docent and frankly wasn't that impressed with it. Lifeshield hardly ever seemed to proc, and 15 temp HP in an epic quest seems a bit of a joke to me, especially with how low the proc rate seems. In the meantime I'd probably go for Dragontouched, since it's relatively easy to get.


it goes on your bar and is activated, so you'll be able to tell what it doesn't interface with

If you don't go with the dragonscale, i'd go for something with useful modifiers, probably dragontouched.

Blademarks is pretty blah IMO.

even the docent of grace could be better

[AylinIsAwesome]

it goes on your bar and is activated, so you'll be able to tell what it doesn't interface with

I think I might change my feats around to pick up Power Attack next level so I can share sooner. Won't make a ton of difference in the end anyway, just have to wait a few more levels for Skill Focus.


If you don't go with the dragonscale, i'd go for something with useful modifiers, probably dragontouched.

Blademarks is pretty blah IMO.

even the docent of grace could be better

Plus it doesn't look very good either.

Alright for level 5, but as soon as I hit level 8 I'm switching to a +5 docent.

[Quikster]

It wont lower the intimidate dc.

The bonus from prayer doesn't stack with voice/head of gf for intimidation purposes.

WF brute fighting doesn't work under some incredibly important circumstance, but i cannot remember which one as I don't have a warforged.

It might be rage, for barbarians.

My memory is hazy, because warforged aren't people.

It doesnt work with barb rage. That is correct, but it does work with power attack, I just checked (well at least both icons stay toggled on :) who knows what that actually means lol )

[AylinIsAwesome]

It doesnt work with barb rage. That is correct, but it does work with power attack, I just checked (well at least both icons stay toggled on :) who knows what that actually means lol )

Oh cool, I don't have to rearrange my feats now! :D

[Tholar]

Does it mean I am old if I saw this threads title, and came here thinking this was a discussion about an operating system?

[AylinIsAwesome]

Does it mean I am old if I saw this threads title, and came here thinking this was a discussion about an operating system?

Paladins: Refuse to "upgrade" to windows.

[emptysands]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could help me with the following (in no particular order):

1. Can you still Tumble while in stance?

4. Will hate from the DoS set stack with Divine Righteousness and Warforged Brute Fighting? Is it additive or multiplicative?

7. Will 61 self-buffed Intim be enough for most things (both epic and non-epic)?

8. Is 557 HP (before Yugoloth pot) good enough?

10. Will saves of 44/30/30 be alright for tanking?

12. Will a raid-buffed AC of 82 be enough? And self-buffed 74? Also asking for Epics.


1. YES

4. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=246669

7. See: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=245254

8. Little low for tanking but I've tanked Horoth with 573 HP with a rage spell/pot and no yugo pot. Healing Amp and evasion makes the difference.

10. Yes.

12. Yes, probably good for hard/elite quests.

[Tom_Hunters]

just to add, the Glorious Stance also block trip, and some added damage like Divine sacrifice

yeah, my pally PVP another pally friend, me KotC he DoS, basically when he is in stance and blocking, I hit few and by little; he hits few and little too when I block

But his stance also prevents the Slaying AA arrows, while I keep dying when I do loh to myself

so maybe this can give u more hints how the Glorious Stance works


But in a travern my frd can activate the stand every min, of coz, but in real fight it's not gonna work like this

[Quikster]

1. YES

4. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=246669

7. See: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=245254

8. Little low for tanking but I've tanked Horoth with 573 HP with a rage spell/pot and no yugo pot. Healing Amp and evasion makes the difference.

10. Yes.

12. Yes, probably good for hard/elite quests.

now that WoE work ac isnt a big deal on horoth. On normal you only need 75ish anywho.

[AylinIsAwesome]

now that WoE work ac isnt a big deal on horoth. On normal you only need 75ish anywho.

Cool, I could tank him with Power Attack on then! :D (If I have Bardsong).

[Quikster]

Cool, I could tank him with Power Attack on then! :D (If I have Bardsong).

Yes.