Cleric 18 / Monk 2 caster build

[Sibellya]

This is the first build I'm submitting for review, please provide constructive feedback. It is a 28-point build (no tomes required) designed to be capable of both healing and offensive casting with some limited melee capability. The monk splash improves survivability (AC, saves and evasion) and spell DC (+2 WIS from stance) at the cost of reduced spell penetration and SP.

I would like to get some opinions on whether I should go high-DEX instead of high-STR for more AC and Reflex.

Lawful Good Human Cleric 18 / Monk 2

BASE ABILITIES

STR 14
DEX 8
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 18*
CHA 8

* Increase WIS every four levels

SKILLS

Concentration 23 ranks
Jump* 16 ranks
Tumble 1 rank

* Replace/split with Balance if desired

FEATS

1: Extend (Cleric)
1: Mental Toughness* (Human)
3: Empower Healing (Cleric)
4: Toughness (Monk)
6: Empower (Cleric)
7: Lightning Reflexes (Monk)
9: Maximise (Cleric)
12: Quicken (Cleric)
15: Spell Pen (Cleric)
18: Greater Spell Pen (Cleric)

* Re-spec to Heighten at higher levels if desired

ENHANCEMENTS

Cleric Radiant Servant II
- Cleric Heal II
- Cleric Divine Vitality I
- Cleric Improved Turning I
- Cleric Charisma II
Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Cleric Prayer of Life II
Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Cleric Life Magic IV
Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV
Cleric Wisdom III
Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Human Improved Recovery II
Human Racial Toughness II

[biggin]

I can tell you right off the bat, the DEX is going to be a problem. Evasion is worthless without reflex. Plus clonk DPS isn't exactly staggering, so you don't really need to the damage output, just be able to hit with effects like vorp, banishers, etc. I built mine with a 16 DEX (TR so I had 34 pts to play with), and his reflex is around 42 fully buffed at cap. It isn't great but keeps me out of the woods for most traps. AC in the 60's with no real effort put into it, which is decent up til around the Vale.

Problem is, you can't exactly dump STR either. If you get to medium encumberance you lose your stance and turn into a slug. Personally I would wait until you have 32 points to build a clonk. You need WIS, DEX, CON and STR, which isn't possible on 28 points.

[Phidius]

Stats
Str: 20 = 14 (base) + 2 (tome) + 6 (ring) - 2 (Ocean)
Dex: 16 = 8 (base) + 2 (tome) + 1 (AP) + 5 (gloves)
Con: 23 = 14 (base) + 2 (tome) + 1 (AP) + 6 (belt)
Int: 10 = 8 (base) + 2 (tome)
Wis: 36 = 18 (base) + 2 (tome) + 5 (levels) + 3 (AP) + 6 (conc-opp cloak) + 2 (Ocean)

*note: Only need a tier2 Conc Opp cloak for the +6 wis

Saves

Fortitude: 33 = 2 (monk) + 11 (cleric) + 6 (con) + 5 (boots) + 1 (ritual) + 2 (luck) + 4 (morale) + 2 (Ocean)
Reflex: 27 = 2 (monk) + 6 (cleric) + 2 (feat) + 3 (dex) + 5 (boots) + 1 (ritual) + 2 (luck) + 4 (morale) + 2 (Ocean)
Will: 40 = 2 (monk) + 11 (cleric) + 13 (wis) + 5 (boots) + 1 (ritual) + 2 (luck) + 4 (morale) + 2 (Ocean)

Hit points
417 = 20 (Heroic Durability) + 16 (monk) + 144 (cleric) + 10 (Draconic Vitality) + 22 (Toughness) + 35 (AP) + 120 (con) + 20 (Minos) + 30 (GFL-belt)

Gear
Goggles: [available]
Head: Minos Legen
Necklace: Torrin's Choker (or other Amrath necklace with Sup Pot VI)
Trinket: [available]
Cloak: Conc Opp (Blind/Disease immunity, Spell Power, Greater Spell Power)
Belt: Vorne's Belt (or other Amrath Con+6 GFL belt), Planar Gird for GH
Ring1: [available]
Gloves: Spectral Gloves
Boots: Boots of the Innocent
Ring2: Str+6 (preferably Gnawed Ring)
Bracers: [available]
Armor: [available]


Here's what you can get without any bound raid gear (presuming you buy the Supreme Tome from the DDO store - not something I'd do, though). Not necessarily easily or cheaply, but very reasonable if you can find a sugar-daddy. If not, think of it as something to work towards.

Like biggin said, though, the lack of Dex is the weak spot. A reflex of 27 will keep you safe from most of the direct damage spells on Normal, but traps are a different story.

I wouldn't worry about Armor class if I were you - but you could certainly meet your objectives of healing and offensive casting with limited melee.

[Phidius]

... I built mine with a 16 DEX (TR so I had 34 pts to play with), and his reflex is around 42 fully buffed at cap. It isn't great but keeps me out of the woods for most traps. AC in the 60's with no real effort put into it, which is decent up til around the Vale...

42 reflex sounds great to me. Not sure exactly how you got 42, but starting with an 8 dex instead means that fully buffed you'd be at 38 - which is still really really good.

[ThePrincipal]

18/2 clonk is great and all, but take a look at 17cleric/2pally/1monk... you loose evasion but you gain cha modifier bonuses to all saves while retaining the wis AC modifier.

[grodon9999]

18/2 clonk is great and all, but take a look at 17cleric/2pally/1monk... you loose evasion but you gain cha modifier bonuses to all saves while retaining the wis AC modifier.

Which would help him a lot with his 8 starting CHA :)

My Clonk is a halfling started him with:

S 12
D 18
C 14
I 8
W 16
C 8


At cap he's got:

S 20
D 28
C 22
I 10
W 32
C 16

He does fine, if I can vorp the target it dies. I let the "real" warriors fight the red-names. AC is low 60s right now with barely any gear and a bunch of Shield clickies.

people with more experience can correct me if I'm wrong, but Clerics can heal, offensive-cast, or melee. Pick two. I went with healing and GTWFing. if you try to do all three you might be spreading yourself a bit thin.

[Sibellya]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. +1 to Phidius for doing all those calculations!

I think I'll give it a go with high-STR to try and avoid encumbrance. With +6 from an item or Divine Power and -2 from Ocean Stance I'll be sitting on 18 STR without tomes or exceptional bonuses.

I understand that low-DEX will limit the effectiveness of my AC and Evasion but I should still be more survivable than a pure Cleric. The Monk and Wisdom bonuses to AC should exceed the bonuses from Full Plate and Heavy/Tower Shield at most levels, and sometimes avoiding AOE damage is better than always taking it.

[biggin]

42 reflex sounds great to me. Not sure exactly how you got 42, but starting with an 8 dex instead means that fully buffed you'd be at 38 - which is still really really good.

I said without trying too hard. :) Doubt he'll even be in the ballpark. Probably closer to the mid 20's.

[Zapkill]

Whats the AC looking like on this build?

[Impaqt]

The 18/2 Cleric/Monk or even FvS/Monk look good on paper and theory, but fall short of expectations for many folks.

Scenario #1:
Your new, you cant afford all the toys, you dont run all the raids. Therefore your reflex save and AC fall far short of Optimal numbers. this pretty much nullifies most of the advantages a Monk splash gives your. that being Evasion and Armor class. at end game, you are not benefiting from either of those abilities. so you gave up 2 levels of spells, around 200 Spell points and 2 levels of spell penn to gain +2 wisdom while in stance, +2 to your poor reflex save(Lightning reflexes).

Scenario #2:
You do do all the raids, you have lots of resources, your a highly skilled player. You get your reflex save up to a useable level. you have all the toys. You Rock.
Guess what. You would still rock without evasion......

I find very few people fall in between.. that line where y ou dont get all the toys, but still can take full advantage of what the monk splash offers.

[biggin]

Another bit of advice..... make one of each, one pure, one clonk. I find each one more situationally useful. Shaky Shroud group? Bring in 20 Clr with 300 more SP. Tor scale runs? The clonk is a beast in there with good AC and evasion. Be aware, a clonk is much harder to equip then a pure cleric. Raid gear evens it out a bit, but to be a decent pure cleric you can pretty much start with a few meta magics and vendor trash for your Sup Pot/Devotion items.

[WilbyZ]

How come SP is still discussed as a problem these days? 200 - 300 SP... Drink a pot.