Intimidate: must you?

[TheMeanDM]

So yea, do you *need* intimidate as a tank?

[Tholar]

you don't "need" intimidate, but it sure can be nice to have. However, Diplomacy can be fun on a warrior but don't ask how I know this.

P.S. I apologize to any future and past clerics / wizards / sorcerers that end up in a group with me.

[Carlll]

If by "tank" you are referring to the classical DDO meaning, "some dude who swings a sword", then no. It would be nice to have situationally but you'll be fine without it.

If by "tank" you mean a defensive tank, ooooooooohhhh yeah. Can go home without it.
There is a reason why defensive tanks are often called "intimi-tanks" in DDO.

If you are holding a shield, you better have have intim maxed.

[Impaqt]

Depends on your definition of a "Tank".

but in the end, I dont know of many very good reasons NOT to take Intim if you are going after aggro.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Depends.
What's your definition of tank here? Too many players from other MMOs are calling classes 'tanks' that, while they can be, are usually just dps. And they don't realize that tanks are not needed for most content, either.

If you want to have the attention of one or more mobs regardless of what other party members are doing, you need either Intimidate or +hate bonuses, if not both, depending on your specific goal here, and the build you're trying to do it on.

If you're just a melee, no.

[TheMeanDM]

Tank = the damage sponge

Tank = the (mostly) primary damage dealer

Tank = the guy that bleeds for everyone else

I'm just thinking that skills like:

Use Magic Device
Heal
Balance

Are actually somewhat important....more important than Intimidate....?

UMD - we all know why you want this maxed
Heal - for when you rest at shrines, you get more HP and provide a boost to others
Balance - been spammed by Improved Trip lately?

[Hobgoblin]

Tank = the damage sponge

Tank = the (mostly) primary damage dealer

Tank = the guy that bleeds for everyone else

I'm just thinking that skills like:

Use Magic Device
Heal
Balance

Are actually somewhat important....more important than Intimidate....?

UMD - we all know why you want this maxed
Heal - for when you rest at shrines, you get more HP and provide a boost to others
Balance - been spammed by Improved Trip lately?

i agree with everything but heal. heal provides so few hp at shrines its not worth it.

cheers
hob

[vyvy3369]

So yea, do you *need* intimidate as a tank?
There are very few fights where intimidate helps significantly when things are going well. It's a great skill to have for when things go really, really wrong though.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Tank = the damage sponge

Tank = the (mostly) primary damage dealer

Tank = the guy that bleeds for everyone else

I'm just thinking that skills like:

Use Magic Device
Heal
Balance

Are actually somewhat important....more important than Intimidate....?

UMD - we all know why you want this maxed
Heal - for when you rest at shrines, you get more HP and provide a boost to others
Balance - been spammed by Improved Trip lately?

Remember that when we use the term tank to describe a character with the above qualities that we are misusing the term. A tank is a character who can be a magnet for the hate and aggro of mobs without draining the parties resources. Most DDO quests do not need one of these as they are easy (or just challenging in other ways).

Tank =! Barbarian (with large HP pool while you stay alive you are draining the healers SP/party resources)
Tank = Fighter with tower shield, stalwart defender PrE and blocking (paladin with DoS PrE as well)

Most quests don't need a tank, but a well played one is a very valuable character to have on a team.
Don't confuse tank with DPS.

[Depravity]

Tank = the damage sponge

Tank = the (mostly) primary damage dealer

Tank = the guy that bleeds for everyone else

I'm just thinking that skills like:

Use Magic Device
Heal
Balance

Are actually somewhat important....more important than Intimidate....?

UMD - we all know why you want this maxed
Heal - for when you rest at shrines, you get more HP and provide a boost to others
Balance - been spammed by Improved Trip lately?

While wanting to help at the shrines is admirable, the math makes for a really really poor return.

From the DDOwiki (http://ddowiki.com/page/Heal) - The exact formula is: 10 + 3 * (level + maximum score in Heal of a nearby party member). Note that this does not apply to warforged, who rely on the repair skill.

So 1 rank of heal = 3 Hp at a shrine. Meaning your 23 ranks (assuming full ranks of heal available on a build) translates to 69 extra HP, and bupkus for the WF in party.
Or about one cure light wounds from a healing specced cleric. Or three-four cure serious wounds pots.

Cranked up level 20 cleric might get 23 (ranks) + 10 (30 wis) + 15 (item) + 6 (exceptional wis skills item(s)) + 4 (Healing enhancements) = 58 or thereabouts
58 * 3 = 174. Or one decent mass cure serious (crit maybe?) wounds cast.
Not even really worth it on a class designed to be greatly capable as a healer.

Honestly, just carry the highest +heal item you can find and wear it while shrining.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the AI has been tweaked for extra caster hate. Playing on a rogue without subtle backstabbing turned on, I can regularly take 50% HP off of something that has decided to go for the casters (just sight aggro, at that) before it even thinks about turning on me. I may be able to kill it without incurring aggro if it got webbed (no hate like web hate) or glitterdusted (although it's hard to tell with blinded mobs).

If you want a reliable way to get things paying attention to you, intimidate is the way to go, hands down.

I second vyvy3369 on this - intim is invaluable when stuff hits the fan and you actually need to save people, and do it now.
Also handy if you have one of those people who refuse to put the bow away and don't understand about kiting to the melee.

[t0r012]

I like me some intim.
If I'm playing a fighter type or playing with one.

Warrior type guy with good intim and hate means everyone else gets to use their resources most effectively. rouges get their SA damage, cleric really only has to focus on one target for healing freeing up attention for damage (be it spells or melee). Dead wizs and sorcs cast no firewall and the big sissy DPS glass cannons can do their thing.

Yep, and my #1 reason for always going big intim on big melee? kiting archers. Yes I play mostly low level pugs rerolling all the time and running levels say 1-7 or so almost all the time and boy oh boy do you really get super sick of chasing after the freakin kiting archers and even the eternal wand/MM wizards.

I have come to enjoy it so much that i have seriously considered rerolling some of my higher level monks just to get intim.

[Khellendros13]

Having enough intim for trash on a build that has AC or DR is wonderful.

I use it all the time on my barb, and once that DoD procs, incoming damage is heavily reduced, and mobs get -2 to saves so web and other CC is more effective. Or when things are hairy, swap to leviks shield and spam intim in a corner.

Elite Sins, barb intim devils into web and discoball, supreme cleave with a vorpal, lots of win, 0 pot usage for the healer.

The bestthing is when you have to players using intim...the mobs just get confused and die before they get many, if any, attacks off :)

On my current fighter though...rogue splash so I don't want the agro of all the mobs.

[nerdychaz]

Why I maxxed intimidate on my fighter: You are the guy with the kick but a/c and every damage reduction/resistance/immunity item you can find. You may be in a couple of defensive stances (combat expertise, stalwart defender stance, tower shield) reducing your hits and your movement(-9 to hit, 50% speed reduction). but that is ok. You are not going to be doing much damage. You are enabling others to do the damage without getting killed. When you hit intimidate, the enemies concentrate on killing you, but they have a hard time hitting you. When an assassin sees that an enemy has been intimidated, he darts in and slices the enemy to shreds in just a few strikes where as before he might have died on one hit from this enemy. A barbarian may have a halfway decent A/C, but it is not enough to survive more than a few hits. He will come in and destroy everything he can hit. You keep the enemy intimidated and block, hit the shield bash if you want, as long as you took improved shield bash. The rest of the party will take little to no damage, you will take some damage, but the healer only really has to concentrate on you.

An epic A/C and Intimidate are very hard to attain, but a halfway decent intimidate is better than no intimidate chance. Remember, you roll a d20 with that intimidate. Intimitanks can be very expensive projects, but when you begin intimidating raid bosses, you will be impressing everyone.

[MrWizard]

well....no matter your build on that 'tank', aggro control is important.

Can't hit things if they are running around and you have to chase them...bring em to you.

Do you really want the enemy going after your cleric or magic user instead of you?

Holding mobs in a firewall is easy with intim.

Kiting mobs through blade barriers is easy with intim.

Rogues have this really cool thing called sneak attack, with intim you guarantee the rogue does damage and not gets aggro (losing his sneak attack damage).


No reason not to have it, it is a class skill and easy to use.
You do not have to go willy nilly on it though, 23 ranks and a 15 item will get you at 38 end game which gets most mobs other than bosses. Add a few from charisma and you are in the 40s without any real cost.

Other then mindless undead and some animals like a wolf or spider, you pretty much can affect almost every monster type in the game...

why would you not want intim?

[Mav145]

I like intimidate for about three reasons:

1. Mobs running around all over the place and I need to get them back under control.
2. When their is a rogue in the party - I always intim and their dps skyrockets.
3. When a mob aggros on the caster or healer, gotta protect the back row.

I am not an intim-tank, I just use it situationally.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Depends on your definition of a "Tank".

but in the end, I dont know of many very good reasons NOT to take Intim if you are going after aggro.

1 skill point per level is a very good reason not to take intimidate. Ofcourse, if you go mid-high int for CE you're more or less fine, but the standard skillpoint ratio of a fighter is very bad.

[Gkar]

Remember that when we use the term tank to describe a character with the above qualities that we are misusing the term. A tank is a character who can be a magnet for the hate and aggro of mobs without draining the parties resources. Most DDO quests do not need one of these as they are easy (or just challenging in other ways).

Tank =! Barbarian (with large HP pool while you stay alive you are draining the healers SP/party resources)
Tank = Fighter with tower shield, stalwart defender PrE and blocking (paladin with DoS PrE as well)

Most quests don't need a tank, but a well played one is a very valuable character to have on a team.
Don't confuse tank with DPS.

Hi Welcome

[Baloran]

I don't have an intimi-tank build, but I maxed intimidate nevertheless. I mostly use it to when I see that the health of a close by party member (or my hireling cleric) is going down to get the monsters attention an give the party member an opportunity to heal or withdraw from combat.

I use my skill points for: intimidate, balance, umd

[sirgog]

It's a must-have on a Defender build, and a worthwhile investment of skill points (but not a must-have) on a Kensai.

For a Defender, it is the best way to get aggro of packs of mobs, and to put your excellent AC and DR to use. Threat tanking remains superior for single targets, but even there Intimidate has its place (if a rogue procs a Lightning Strike on Suulomades, for example, having a 70% chance to take aggro back immediately is good).

For Kensais, on occasion you can rush into a pack of mobs, equip a shield, intimidate, and turtle up. You'll seldom need to do it, but in some situations (particularly the second wave of Orthons in VoD and to a lesser extent Horoth's trash) it can be a real boon.

[Eeomis]

I like Intim so much I did a GR on my tank to max it out. It is costly but if you like the play style and know how to use it, especially in specific raid encounters, it can make things go MUCH more smoothly.


~E