The Tempest Ninja (Unorthodoxed Multiclass Monk)

[Impaqt]

If the Idea of a monk intrigues you, but the twitch Clicky based gameplay is unnatractive, this might be a nice build to consider.
that was the thought process behind this build. I have rolled it up. I intend to cap it. Monks have been on my personal "ick" list for quite some time due to the clicky dependability. THisi s my attempt to minimize that while still being able to do solid damage and maintain a high AC.

Many folks have written off the Tempest 1 Splash due to the Mod5 Changes. I feel it can still be valuble for a build like this. 10% additional Offhand attacks is nice, plus the other Ranger benefits like Rams Might and Fav enemy(+6 Damage against 2)
Fighter levels add a couple feats... Allows me to max out my Dragonmarks for self healing (Since this is of course, Dark Path)

I think the most attractive aspect of this build is ability to radically shift its primary role.

In DPS Mode I can easily get to 100+ Point Crits using handwraps.
In AC Mode I can sport a 50ish Size Modified Intim with a 80+ AC.(90 Potential)

I think I have my End game gear planned prety well to accomodate the 2 faces of this character. Some high end gear of course, but nothing epic.

I lose quite a few Monk abilities by stopping at 12, the DR being the biggest, but I feel the feats and Ranger perks make up for it.
a 20 Monk gets 2d10 base damage for an 11 Avg.
12 Monk gets 2d6 for a 7 average.

Rams might makes up 3 of that immediately.
Add in Fav Emeny in many situations, extra Point of STR from Fighter 2, and 10% more Off hand attacks and I feel I am ahead of a Pure monk base DPS wise.

I get Abundant Step.
ANd most importantly I get TOuch of Death.
I may have a smaller Ki Pool to use it from, but I'll reserve commentary on that for later.

I did abandon all the Halfling Guild and sneak attack.. which seems odd on the surface... But again. Traded that for Tempest and Dragonmarks. I feel its a reasonable trade off at this time.
So I present....

The Tempest Ninja


Level 20 Lawful Neutral Halfling Male
(2 Fighter / 12 Monk / 6 Ranger)
Hit Points:
20 Heroic Durability
96 12 Monk
48 6 Ranger
20 2 Fighter
120 CON
22 TOughness
30 Toughness Enh
20 Minos
30 GFL
10 Draconic
---
416
40 Yugo Pot
35 HP Item
---
491

Spell Points: 85

BAB: Melee Mode
20 BAB (Handwraps)
5 Weapon
12 STR
1 Halfling
---
+38 Unbuffed
-5 PA
---
+33

Damage:
7 (2d6)
5 Weapon
12 STR
5 PA
3 Rams Might
--
32 + 6 Fav Enemy

Bloodstone + Bard songs put me into 100+ Point base Crits
Tempest puts offhand at 90%

Wind Stance give me 7.5% chance at a DoubleStrike if I choose to use that to melee.

Saving Throws:

8/8/8 12 Monk
5/5/2 Ranger
3/0/0 Fighter
6/12/8 Attributes
5/5/5 Resist
1/1/1 Resist Ritual
1/1/1 Halfling
-----
29/32/25
4/4/4 GH
2/2/2 Luck
------
35/38/31
4/4/4 Holy AUra
-----
39/42/35

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
{28/34}Strength 14 +5 Levels +1 Fighter +2 TOme +6 Item/ +3 Exceptional+3 Stance
{28/34}Dexterity 16 +2 Tome+2 Halfling +2 Ranger +6 Item /+3 Exceptional+3 Stance
{22}Constitution 14+2 Tome +6 Item
{20}Intelligence 12+2 TOme +6 Item
{27}Wisdom 14+2 TOme +2 Monk +6 Item/ +3 Exceptional
{16}Charisma 8 +2 TOme +6 Item

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

A/C: In AC/Intim Mode (Water Stance, Greensteel SS's)
10 Base
1 Halfling
3 Monk
12 Dex
8 Wisdom
8 Bracers
5 Protection
4 Dodge (Raiments)
2 Tempest Shield
1 Alchemical RItual
1 Dodge Feat
---
55 Unbuffed no stance
5 CE
3 Bark Pot
4 Insight(Greensteel SS +1 Dex evens up to 30 in Air stance)
1 haste
----
68 in typical AC Mode
2 Ranger Bark
4 Bard Song
2 Reciation
---
76 Typical Raid buffed
3 Chattering RIng
2 Dex and Wis Yugo Pots
2 Sheild Clicky
1 Air Guard double Haste
---
84 short term/rare + more if there is a Paly Aura around and if I pull a LotD and some +3/+4 Tomes Tomes

Max Intim:
23 Ranks
15 Item
3 CHR
6 Shroud Item
4 GH
2 Luck
2 Bard Song
---
55 Intim (before -4/-8 Size Penalty)


Concentration 23 Ranks
Jump 12 Ranks
Hide 18 Ranks
Intimidate 23 Ranks
Move Silently 18 Ranks
UMD 11 Ranks
SPOT 7 Ranks

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead

Level 2 (Ranger)
(TWF)

Level 3 (Fighter1)
Feat: (Selected) Least DragonMark

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Level 4 (Ranger)

Level 5 (Ranger)

Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack

Level 7 (Ranger)
(ITWF)
(TEMPEST 1)

Level 8 (Monk1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness

Level 9 (Fighter2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing

Level 10 (Monk2)
Feat: Combat Expertise

Level 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness

Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Healing

Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack

Level 14 (MONK)

Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 16 (Monk)

Level 17 (Monk)

Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell or SF:Intim (two Weapon Defense?)

Level 19 (Monk)

Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion I
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Monk Jump I
Enhancement: Monk Jump II
Enhancement: Monk Tumble I
Enhancement: Monk Tumble II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


AC/INTIM Mode Gear:

Helm: Minos
Neck: +6 CHR Skill AIr Guard Shroud Item
Cloak: +5 Protection
goggles: ?
Trinket: HoGF
BELT: +6 Con/GFL
Ring 1:+15 Intim(Abbot RIng)(Swap to Chattering RIng if Not Intiming)
Ring 2:+6 Dex + +3Dex
Boots:30 Striders (Second Shroud Item/Hit Points)
Gloves:+6 STR
Bracers:+8 Armor
Armor: Icy Raiments
Weapon1: +4 Insight, +6 WIs, +6 CHR
Weapon2: +10% healing, +3 Wis SOlid FOg Shortsword


DPS Mode Gear:

Helm: Minos
Neck: +10 COncentration, +3 CON Skills +35 Hit Points Shroud Item
Cloak: +5 Resist ( +1 Alchemical Resist)
goggles: Tharnes
Trinket: Bloodstone or LotD
BELT: +6 Con/GFL
Ring 1:Holy Burst
Ring 2:Shock Burst
Boots:30 Striders
Gloves:+6 STR
Bracers:+8 Armor
Armor: DT With Guards
Weapons: +4 Metaline of PG Handwraps

[Soleran]

Dont forget for ninja spy 2 you need 2 lvls of the animal path I only saw tortoise 1.

[ArloOne]

I will roll one up tonight for sure....looks like fun! Thanks Impaqt!

[Impaqt]

Dont forget for ninja spy 2 you need 2 lvls of the animal path I only saw tortoise 1.

whoops.

Looks Like I'll have to drop Halfling TOughness 2 for the Tortiose II. SInce I forgot the +5 HP from T1 in my breakdown, it'll be wash HP wise.

[khaldan]

For the rings, I believe it's ____ burst, not blast.

I also thought that air stance was the one that gives double strike, not fire stance.

And on weapon 1, how are you fitting both wis 6 and cha 6?

[Impaqt]

For the rings, I believe it's ____ burst, not blast.

I also thought that air stance was the one that gives double strike, not fire stance.

I'll make those corrections.

It does seem Fire stance is doing something for doublestrike according to Alex Haddox on last weeks DDOCast. He claims to be able to hit a lot of Double Touch of deaths while in Fire stance.



And on weapon 1, how are you fitting both wis 6 and cha 6?

http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delallea/ddo/shroud/cgi-bin/shroud.cgi?item=item&craft=1&effects=exist_1_,plus_6_cha,heightened_awareness_4 ,__evil&groups=plus_6_wis&forced=&altar=3&weapon=shortsword

The +6 Wisdom is a Product Pos/Neg You get +6 Wis insteadof a Clicky.

[Dark-Star]

You list combat expertise in your AC, but not as a selected feat.

You have toughness for two of your monk feats, which seems like over kill. A better way to go would be to take a monk level earlier and use a class feat for dodge. With your freed up feat, take combat expertise (if you feel it's meaningful); however you might be ok just using defensive stance.

If so, that frees up two feats (the level 18 extend is a waste imo, six minute Ram's is plenty). With those feats take empower healing and either maximize or quicken to make your marks really worthwhile. Also, you may want to throw greater potency 7 on your DT armor for better healing as well, and/or the Reaver gloves which give healing lore, and find a better spot for +5 str (DT robe?). Consider working in the the Epic greater Dragonmark helm.

In summary, it's a nice build but feals to me like it wants to do a lot and ends up being above average in al,l instead of great in a few. You might want to pick 2/4 of DPS, AC, Intim or Dragonmarks and be focused and excel in those.

[Impaqt]

You list combat expertise in your AC, but not as a selected feat.

You have toughness for two of your monk feats, which seems like over kill. A better way to go would be to take a monk level earlier and use a class feat for dodge. With your freed up feat, take combat expertise (if you feel it's meaningful); however you might be ok just using defensive stance.

There should be only one toughness. the other should be CE. I was flipping feats around and just missed that.



If so, that frees up two feats (the level 18 extend is a waste imo, six minute Ram's is plenty). With those feats take empower healing and either maximize or quicken to make your marks really worthwhile. Also, you may want to throw greater potency 7 on your DT armor for better healing as well, and/or the Reaver gloves which give healing lore, and find a better spot for +5 str (DT robe?). Consider working in the the Epic greater Dragonmark helm.

Maximize might actually be a great choice with the Dragonmarks..... WOuld definily make th eleast and lesser more attractive.

I can carry a Sup Pot 6 item for healng. I'd rather have something melee oriented on the DT.

I purposefully didnt plan for any Epic gear on this character. I run a lot of epics, but I simply dont enjoy grinding them. I havent crafted a single epic item yet and still find my characters and play solid.





In summary, it's a nice build but feals to me like it wants to do a lot and ends up being above average in al,l instead of great in a few. You might want to pick 2/4 of DPS, AC, Intim or Dragonmarks and be focused and excel in those.

It takes way too much to get Intim up to high enough to excell on a halfling.

Dragonmarks are mostly a function of Gear... and pretty easily obtained gear. Heck, Ihave reaver gloves onmy Ranger for whenI need to chain a few heals to get back my HP's..

So that Leaves AC and DPS... I find it rare that I want to have DPS and Super high AC at the same time... even on my Intimitank, I have 3 hotbars dedicated to channg the profile of what the character can do.

I trust my healers when I am on a DPS toon to cover my butt. with the configurations I have here, Its a matter of swapping out a handful of items to shift focus.

Thanks for the input, gives me some items to think about.

[Xyfiel]

Rogue + umd>fighter + dm?

3 feats(4 with maximize) which could be used on
two weapon defense = more ac
2nd toughness = better then fighter toughness +bonus = more hps
skill focus umd = 23ranks+3cha+4gh+3feat+6neck=39

12 aps in dm IV and str I replaced with 14 aps in
rogue sneak I
halfling guile/cunning III
1d6 rogue1 +3 rogue enhancement + 9 halfling = 1d6+12

I love my umd, shield wands, teleports, stoneskin, raise dead, but then again I am a umd junky so I am biased. Rangers already get early cure wand access, so we are only comparing end game healing. The least/lesser won't be that useful without a lot of metas/devotion so it really is just the heal spell, of which you have 5? I never got past level 2 on any halfling build, so I am asking the validity of the dragonmarks on the build vs fitting in umd.

[wax_on_wax_off]

ive often considered a build along these lines but the problem i come up against again and again is that those 6 ranger levels really don't pull their weight when compared to what an extra 6 or 8 monk levels will bring.

Just imo anyway.

Im leveling a drow ninja-spy atm who picked up a couple of sunblades. He's on the backburner at and just around to help guildies out though when he gets from 8 to 9 maybe he will draw my attention away from the character im preferring to play at the moment (arcane archer / cleric).

[khaldan]

I'll make those corrections.

It does seem Fire stance is doing something for doublestrike according to Alex Haddox on last weeks DDOCast. He claims to be able to hit a lot of Double Touch of deaths while in Fire stance.


http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delallea/ddo/shroud/cgi-bin/shroud.cgi?item=item&craft=1&effects=exist_1_,plus_6_cha,heightened_awareness_4 ,__evil&groups=plus_6_wis&forced=&altar=3&weapon=shortsword

The +6 Wisdom is a Product Pos/Neg You get +6 Wis insteadof a Clicky.

Generally, the double touch of death is hitting with both the main hand and the offhand, not a double MH strike. If he's gotten a triple ToD(MH, OH, doublestrike MH) then I will need to go yell at my guildie for a bit >.>

EDIT: Numbers you should be seeing for ToD damage
# of hits, fire stance 4 percentage, air stance 4 percentage
500 damage(1 hit): 20%, 18%
1000 damage(2 hits) 80%, 74%
1500 damage(3 hits) 0%, 8%

Average Damage per ToD: 900, 950

[Impaqt]

Generally, the double touch of death is hitting with both the main hand and the offhand, not a double MH strike. If he's gotten a triple ToD(MH, OH, doublestrike MH) then I will need to go yell at my guildie for a bit >.>

On the DDOCast he stated not only Double, But Triple and even a rare Quad. I generally take whatever Alex says regarding Monks as gospel.... but of course, cant verify anything from personal experience yet.

[khaldan]

On the DDOCast he stated not only Double, But Triple and even a rare Quad. I generally take whatever Alex says regarding Monks as gospel.... but of course, cant verify anything from personal experience yet.

Hmm. May need to zerg a monk to 9 to test around with that. Do you know if he was doing anything besides ToD?

[Soleran]

On the DDOCast he stated not only Double, But Triple and even a rare Quad. I generally take whatever Alex says regarding Monks as gospel.... but of course, cant verify anything from personal experience yet.

Quad ToD would need a screenshot to prove that, in windstance you can get 3, mainhand, offhand and a chance at doublestrike.

[khaldan]

Quad ToD would need a screenshot to prove that, in windstance you can get 3, mainhand, offhand and a chance at doublestrike.

I've heard of a guildie getting one, and here's what I think happens after spending an hour or so on it.

If you've ever played a rogue, you could double assassinate by being next to 2 different mobs, killing the first one, and then spinning really fast to get the second one.

I think the same thing is happening here, you kill the first one with ToD, but it hasn't gone through all of it's procs (the same reason I think double assassinate works, woo two hands), so if you manage to target a second monster after the first one dies but before your next strike, you can pull off a quad ToD. It'll be rare and/or hard as hell to pull off, but possible.

[Syntax42]

First, the problem with this build is that Tempest didn't work with unarmed before Update 5. I didn't notice any patch notes stating specifically that they fixed this. Unfortunately, detecting a difference in an 80% chance and a 90% chance is very difficult without some sort of combat parser.

Second, the triple/quad touch of death is not hard to do. Simply press ToD or any monk attack so it activates for your third attack animation and you will get 3 procs 80% of the time and a 4th 10% of the time. The source of the extra attack is unclear. It may be an extra attack granted by the TWF feats that didn't get cleaned up during update 5.

[Impaqt]

First, the problem with this build is that Tempest didn't work with unarmed before Update 5. I didn't notice any patch notes stating specifically that they fixed this. Unfortunately, detecting a difference in an 80% chance and a 90% chance is very difficult without some sort of combat parser.

Second, the triple/quad touch of death is not hard to do. Simply press ToD or any monk attack so it activates for your third attack animation and you will get 3 procs 80% of the time and a 4th 10% of the time. The source of the extra attack is unclear. It may be an extra attack granted by the TWF feats that didn't get cleaned up during update 5.

I followed the combat update thread as much as I could. I never saw Eladrin specifcally indicate that offhad proc chances were tied to weilding Two-Weapons vs Handwraps.

I guess that can be a concern, however, For me, I still feel 6 Ranger is a good return on investment if only for the Rams Might and Fav Enemy.

There certainly are advantages to going full Monk. I cannot deny that. But as I stated inthe OP, I'm not one to use lots of Clickies. Cycleing through various attacks to hit a finishing move isnt my style... and most monks can add a LOT of dps with them.

[Syntax42]

I followed the combat update thread as much as I could. I never saw Eladrin specifcally indicate that offhad proc chances were tied to weilding Two-Weapons vs Handwraps.

I guess that can be a concern, however, For me, I still feel 6 Ranger is a good return on investment if only for the Rams Might and Fav Enemy.

There certainly are advantages to going full Monk. I cannot deny that. But as I stated inthe OP, I'm not one to use lots of Clickies. Cycleing through various attacks to hit a finishing move isnt my style... and most monks can add a LOT of dps with them.

Maybe you can be the guinea pig or lab mouse and let us know if tempest works while wielding handwraps now. After thinking for a bit, I figured the +2 AC should be easier to see if tempest is working or not. Wield a masterwork kama then switch to handwraps then switch to dual masterwork kamas.

[Xyfiel]

Maybe you can be the guinea pig or lab mouse and let us know if tempest works while wielding handwraps now. After thinking for a bit, I figured the +2 AC should be easier to see if tempest is working or not. Wield a masterwork kama then switch to handwraps then switch to dual masterwork kamas.

You don't keep tempest of whirling steel with handwraps equipped. I have the same build with 2 rogue instead of fighter, when I switch to handwraps/tod for shroud portals or abbot, I lose the buff icon. I also use a lit II and radience II shortsword normally, so I get the buff. 6Ranger is great if not planning on 20 Monk, and Tempest is 2 more feats(you take dodge anyway). Tempest is still useful for the spring attack, occasional ac when tumbling, and the tempest buff when using kamas/swords. What other 2 feats would you take in place of it?

[Dark-Star]

In my tests, the Tempest icon goes away, but the increased off hand chance is still there, at least it was pre-hot fix. Tested on Tempest II, which gave 100% off hand attacks on the training dummy.

[Impaqt]

Hit Level 13 last night (have enough XP for 14, but holding off)

It does seem the offhand increase holds with handwraps. Whacking the training dummy, I rarely see my offhand miss. Its quite nice.

I've pretty much solo'd and pugged this toon so far. Its been a blast to play and I'm looking forward to getting ToD in a few levels.

[Syntax42]

The difference between 80% and 90% will be too hard to notice by observation. You will need to perform some sort of combat parsing and analysis to be sure. I'm a little rusty on statistics, so figuring out an appropriate sample size may be difficult.

I think the best method of doing this may be to time how long it takes to kill the training dummy, then go back and count how many attacks were attempted. It may require you to log the combat window. Also, to make the measurements as consistent as possible, do not use haste or wind stance, use masterwork handwraps, and make sure you have Greater Two-Weapon Fighting before you perform this test. Repeat it three times just to make sure you get consistent results. I will perform the same test on my pure monk with GTWF. We will only need to compare our attacks per minute to determine if tempest is working or not. If it is working, you should have 5% more attacks per minute than I will get.

[Impaqt]

The difference between 80% and 90% will be too hard to notice by observation. You will need to perform some sort of combat parsing and analysis to be sure. I'm a little rusty on statistics, so figuring out an appropriate sample size may be difficult.

I think the best method of doing this may be to time how long it takes to kill the training dummy, then go back and count how many attacks were attempted. It may require you to log the combat window. Also, to make the measurements as consistent as possible, do not use haste or wind stance, use masterwork handwraps, and make sure you have Greater Two-Weapon Fighting before you perform this test. Repeat it three times just to make sure you get consistent results. I will perform the same test on my pure monk with GTWF. We will only need to compare our attacks per minute to determine if tempest is working or not. If it is working, you should have 5% more attacks per minute than I will get.

Or we can just get someone with a ranger with a monk splash to put on a pair of handwraps and see if they ever dont get their off hand attack.

[Syntax42]

Or we can just get someone with a ranger with a monk splash to put on a pair of handwraps and see if they ever dont get their off hand attack.

That wouldn't work. Base offhand attack chance is 20%. They would have to run a numerical test again to determine if it is working with any degree of statistical accuracy. Simple observation isn't good enough.


I just tried testing it using my method. The combat log in game doesn't store enough lines to count more than 25% of the dummy's health. I will have to do it by counting the orange numbers and misses.

Edit: Even without haste, its hard to count the attacks fast enough. I'm going to look for another option. I may have to find a mechanical or computer-based counting device.

[Impaqt]

That wouldn't work. Base offhand attack chance is 20%. They would have to run a numerical test again to determine if it is working with any degree of statistical accuracy. Simple observation isn't good enough.

Huh? a Tempest 2 Ranger should have 100% offhand. Its VERY easy to see inthe combat log whether or not you are getting your offhand attacks




I just tried testing it using my method. The combat log in game doesn't store enough lines to count more than 25% of the dummy's health. I will have to do it by counting the orange numbers and misses.

Edit: Even without haste, its hard to count the attacks fast enough. I'm going to look for another option. I may have to find a mechanical or computer-based counting device.

your method is making way too much work.

[Syntax42]

There are extra attacks from unknown sources. Ever see a quad touch of death? I get them quite often. How do you explain 4 attacks in one sequence on a pure monk? That's why this has to be tested in a very specific way.

I'm still looking for a method to count the number of attacks per minute against the training dummy. Even with me just pressing a button for every attack, I'm still not catching them all. My brain just can't stay focused on shaking and scrolling numbers for that long.

[Impaqt]

There are extra attacks from unknown sources. Ever see a quad touch of death? I get them quite often. How do you explain 4 attacks in one sequence on a pure monk? That's why this has to be tested in a very specific way.

I'm still looking for a method to count the number of attacks per minute against the training dummy. Even with me just pressing a button for every attack, I'm still not catching them all. My brain just can't stay focused on shaking and scrolling numbers for that long.

I fail to see how the mysterious "extra" attacks would have any bearing whatsoever on determining if Tempest offhand bonus applies to Handwraps.

[Syntax42]

I fail to see how the mysterious "extra" attacks would have any bearing whatsoever on determining if Tempest offhand bonus applies to Handwraps.

When you think you are getting an offhand strike, it could just be one of those extra attacks. If I need to screenshot a quad Touch of Death to prove it happens, I will.

[TFPAQ]

I've been running a Rgr14/Monk6 (light) with a high 60s AC since the cap and through update 5. Basically he has limitless hp, retains his speed increase and gained additional double strike opportunity with the update changes.

You loose the AC of the TWF (whirling shield effect) going handwraps but not the to hits. Been that way forever ...

[Impaqt]

When you think you are getting an offhand strike, it could just be one of those extra attacks. If I need to screenshot a quad Touch of Death to prove it happens, I will.

Youare making it WAY more complicated than it needs to be. We are testing whether or not the bonus remains. If it does not, Undoubtedly, you will see some missing offhand attacks. and as others have said, that is not the case.

Now, if you want to try to figure out what causes the DOuble/Triple/Quad strikes, I'm sure many folks would be interested to hear your findings inthat regard. But its a different issue/Benefit thats not directly connected to 80 vs. 90 vs. 100 offhand proc.

[Syntax42]

I've been running a Rgr14/Monk6 (light) with a high 60s AC since the cap and through update 5. Basically he has limitless hp, retains his speed increase and gained additional double strike opportunity with the update changes.

You loose the AC of the TWF (whirling shield effect) going handwraps but not the to hits. Been that way forever ...

Before update 5, tempest 1 was a 10% attack speed bonus. Someone tested it and confirmed that it did not work with monk unarmed. That's why I'm skeptical about it working now that it's a bonus to offhand chance.

[Syntax42]

Youare making it WAY more complicated than it needs to be. We are testing whether or not the bonus remains. If it does not, Undoubtedly, you will see some missing offhand attacks. and as others have said, that is not the case.

I just wanted someone to help confirm or deny if it really works through definitive testing, rather than inaccurate observation. If you don't want to help, I'll find someone else.

[Impaqt]

I just wanted someone to help confirm or deny if it really works through definitive testing, rather than inaccurate observation. If you don't want to help, I'll find someone else.

WOW. thats funny.

How can what one observes be innacurate?

as I said, Its VERY easy to tell what kind of attacks you are getting in your combat log.

First 4 attacks should be at your BAB, 2 more at +5, then 2 more at +10. Each sequence should show those attacks. at a MINIMUM I would assume. anything beyond those 8 attacks are stange anomolies that I'm sure many folks would be interested to hear about. But as far as offhand attacks. Its very easy to see if you get them or not.

[TFPAQ]

Before update 5, tempest 1 was a 10% attack speed bonus. Someone tested it and confirmed that it did not work with monk unarmed. That's why I'm skeptical about it working now that it's a bonus to offhand chance.

was overly simplifying. The confusion was in only part of the stacking insight/versus etc. In Tempest TWF you gained the small insight benefit from wind on top of the 10% from Tempest. When you went unarmed you got the added unarmed benefits from monk (including the added to hit speeds associated with unarmed plus it added the additional bab speed back then, etc) so the non-insight component from unarmed, plus bab increase (then) apparently were more than the 10% from Tempest (and the same benefit), so the conclusion was that it didn't work unarmed, but in truth the same benefits weren't stacking.

I have no misses off-hand in wind, unarmed, but i do get my double strkes on my Ranger14/Monk6.

[TFPAQ]

I'll run the numbers and track them tonight on the dummy with kamas and wraps for those more statistically inclined ...

[Inspire]

On the DDOCast he stated not only Double, But Triple and even a rare Quad. I generally take whatever Alex says regarding Monks as gospel.... but of course, cant verify anything from personal experience yet.

You can get double strike(s) in any stance, so long as you have the 2wF line.

[Impaqt]

You can get double strike(s) in any stance, so long as you have the 2wF line.

That makes sense. and I have noticed I quite frequently get double and even triple hits on my dark attack. ANd I am always in Fire stance right now.

[Syntax42]

You can get double strike(s) in any stance, so long as you have the 2wF line.

Double strikes and offhand chance are not the same thing. From what I understood, TWF gave offhand chance. Double strike chance came from special abilities, like Wind Stance and the Fighter capstone.

For those interested, here is a screenshot of a 5x-ToD hit. I was trying for a quad, but look what happened...


http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj86/Syntax42/ScreenShot00002.jpg

How do you explain that? Double-strikes off of double-strikes? I thought they said that wouldn't happen. I can do triple ToD's in Fire Stance, too. Offhand attacks are possible in fire stance, but double-strikes shouldn't be without an item or buff that gives double strikes.

Here is a triple ToD in fire stance:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj86/Syntax42/ScreenShot00004.jpg

These screenshots were taken a few minutes before posting this and not during the beta-testing of U5. This is currently on LIVE servers.

[Dark-Star]

I can verify that 100% off-hand attacks from tempest II works with handwraps.

[Sithias]

Quad ToD would need a screenshot to prove that, in windstance you can get 3, mainhand, offhand and a chance at doublestrike.

Quad ToD is not unheard of nor should you need a screenie, I get them all the time in windstance....Now the Quintuple ToD, those are nice :P Just ask Horoth who got blasted for 2500+ in one round a few days ago :P

[Syntax42]

I did more testing. I equipped kamas and a staff. I received no mysterious extra attacks. I then created a level 4 monk and attacked the training dummy. I was getting triple-attacks while not in a stance. They are easy to notice when you use a monk elemental strike.

I then counted my 20 monk's attacks. Out of 100 attempts, 70 were triple-attacks while not in a stance. Those extra, unexplained attacks will make it difficult to conclude that tempest works with unarmed. If someone wants to take the time to find out the truth, let me know. I can provide more statistically-accurate numbers if needed.

[DDShidoshi]

Hello. Can you tell me how you are supposed to get the monk's least dragonmark bonus at level 3 without actually having a monk level at level 3?

[IronClan]

I did more testing. I equipped kamas and a staff. I received no mysterious extra attacks. I then created a level 4 monk and attacked the training dummy. I was getting triple-attacks while not in a stance. They are easy to notice when you use a monk elemental strike.

I then counted my 20 monk's attacks. Out of 100 attempts, 70 were triple-attacks while not in a stance. Those extra, unexplained attacks will make it difficult to conclude that tempest works with unarmed. If someone wants to take the time to find out the truth, let me know. I can provide more statistically-accurate numbers if needed.


Hello. Can you tell me how you are supposed to get the monk's least dragonmark bonus at level 3 without actually having a monk level at level 3?

Extra Dragonmark use is a general enhancement nothing to do with race or class or level (beyond the progression requirement if any)

[Impaqt]

Hello. Can you tell me how you are supposed to get the monk's least dragonmark bonus at level 3 without actually having a monk level at level 3?

You get a Fighter Bonus feat that level. Was a Mistake. Its fixed now.

[alphawolf3]

looks pretty sweet. gj

[RS-Makk]

I haven't rolled a monk yet, but I have always been interested except for all the clicking. Thus, this concept intrigues me. Some questions:

how would the dps compare to a pure monk?
Tod isn't a finishng move? (you can trigger it as long as you have ki and aren't on cooldown?
No stunning? How could that be fit in?
What other strikes do you fnd yourself using and how often do you find yourself clicking?

[Impaqt]

I haven't rolled a monk yet, but I have always been interested except for all the clicking. Thus, this concept intrigues me. Some questions:

how would the dps compare to a pure monk?
Tod isn't a finishng move? (you can trigger it as long as you have ki and aren't on cooldown?
No stunning? How could that be fit in?
What other strikes do you fnd yourself using and how often do you find yourself clicking?

I've been playing this guy the past couple days trying to decide if I want to TR him to a Pure monk or not....

TOD is just an attack. not a finisher. So KI and Off timer = ToD.

I get a lot of 250's, but some 500's still sneak in there.

I actually did rework mine for Stunning fist and stunning blow. with DC's in the low 20's they work OK for most quests, but not very good for Epics.

I have 4 hotkeys tied to various moves. I hit those quite a bit.. Tod, Stunns, andLeap are my hot keys usually.

[Srozbun]

Double strikes and offhand chance are not the same thing. From what I understood, TWF gave offhand chance. Double strike chance came from special abilities, like Wind Stance and the Fighter capstone.

For those interested, here is a screenshot of a 5x-ToD hit. I was trying for a quad, but look what happened...


http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj86/Syntax42/ScreenShot00002.jpg

How do you explain that? Double-strikes off of double-strikes? I thought they said that wouldn't happen. I can do triple ToD's in Fire Stance, too. Offhand attacks are possible in fire stance, but double-strikes shouldn't be without an item or buff that gives double strikes.

Here is a triple ToD in fire stance:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj86/Syntax42/ScreenShot00004.jpg

These screenshots were taken a few minutes before posting this and not during the beta-testing of U5. This is currently on LIVE servers.

I thought training dummies being constructs were immune to ToD

[Impaqt]

I thought training dummies being constructs were immune to ToD

I have not tested my ToD on the training dummy lately, but that post was way PRe- Mod 7.

ToD DOES indeed still work on portals though....

[Srozbun]

I have not tested my ToD on the training dummy lately, but that post was way PRe- Mod 7.

ToD DOES indeed still work on portals though....

Yep, I still use ToD on portals in the shroud. I can confirm ToD does no longer work on the training dummy though. I'm curious what other constructs are affected/unaffected by ToD.

[Tiima]

How would you build this on 28 pts?

[Impaqt]

How would you build this on 28 pts?

I dont know if I would recomend this build with 32 points still.. Definitly not a 28pt friendly concept.

[elyssaria]

I dont know if I would recomend this build with 32 points still.. Definitly not a 28pt friendly concept.

My main Khierra is a TR 12 Monk/7 Rogue/1 Fighter. My main gripe atm is the problem you have noticed already. The ToD changes penalize all those that are not Pure Monk and Wisdom based. Since both yours and my build are STR based AND multiclass. So our builds get hit twice, first by not having full monk lvls then secondly for not being focused on Wisdom. So the 500 hits are very rare atm. Personally I think it's very sad that Turbine decide to do this change to ToD since it takes away much of the diversity which I think is the golden thing with DDO and solely the main reason I am playing this game.

However does this mean the build sucks? Of course not they still perform very well, just not as good as pre U7 and the reason to spend at least 9 lvls on monk gets even more less then it was before. 9 lvls is almost half of your total levels and then if you can't get the full benefits of ToD then I am beginning to hesitate of it worth it to take all these monk lvls.

Just a thought :)

/Khierra