MY Opinions on Cleric bug

[Arisa316]

I have read the following guilde lines and understand all that I am about to copy and paste below from http://www.ddo.com/community/1059-ddo-community-guidelines about useing the forums after my writen OPINION.


In my opintion the cleric bug is indeed bad but when one person can not express thier freedom of speach to the community in anyway without being "booted" from game angers me more so. I understand I am one persona ming many with my own expressions and opinions but this "contact" booted me straight from the game on my end. I could choose to call this a federal problem for "hacking" (closing a window on my computer without permission to do so). I do know that this post may ban me but so be it. I have expressed my anger and followed all of the forum rules. If I should be banned for my own expression of opinion then know I shall be the first to go to Warner and submit my complaint to the "member loving community of Warner Brothers Inc." Thank you for your time if you have read this. Again...... the following link above has ALL the 21 Forum community rules copied and pasted as it was written from the devs.



1. While participating on the Community Sites, you must respect the rights of others to participate in the community. To this end you may not harass, defraud, threaten or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other members or Turbine staff. This includes, but is not limited to:

•Name-calling or other insults
•Posting or commenting with the intent of provoking ("trolling") another user or users
•Flaming another user for their spelling or grammar
•Bringing disagreements with someone into unrelated threads or blog posts/comments
•Creating a thread, post, or comment on any of the Community Sites that calls out another player(s) for their actions in the game
2. You may not use, distribute, or spotlight, or post links to sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially, nationally, ethnically offensive content or language, or other content deemed inappropriate at the discretion of the Turbine Community Team.

3. Profanity is prohibited on our Community Sites. In addition, you may not deliberately misspell, or substitute punctuation or other special characters in, filtered words to circumvent any profanity filters of the Community Site you are posting on.

4. You may not impersonate any Turbine, Inc. employee, past or present. This includes the use or modification of the Turbine logo as a My DDO avatar.

5. You may not violate any local, state, national, or international laws, or regulations.

6. You may not market, promote, advertise or solicit products or services for sale or trade within the Community Sites. You may not post advertisements for websites that are not directly related to Dungeons & Dragons Online.

7. You may not form or participate in groups whose ideology is based on or resembles anti-religious, anti-ethnic, anti-sexual orientation, racist, or sexist philosophies.

8. Making short posts for the sole purpose of moving your thread up the Forums ("bumping") or adding to your post count is not allowed.

9. You may not abuse the Forums Reputation System. This includes posting requests for positive reputation or other means of “farming” reputation, targeting an individual or group for negative reputation, or any other means of artificially influencing your Reputation or another user’s.

10. You may not upload or transmit copyrighted material without the express consent of the copyright holder.

11. You may not post the personally identifiable information of another user, including but not limited to their real name, address, phone number, email address, or links to personal websites without the express consent of that user.

12. You may not re-post Private Messages on the Community Sites without the express consent of the sender.

13. Discussion of religious or political topics is prohibited on the Community Sites.

14. Do not re-post or quote any materials which violate the Community Guidelines. This includes re-posting a thread or topic which has been previously closed or removed by the Turbine Community Team.

15. Please do not respond in kind to posts that violate the Community Guidelines, as this may result in disciplinary action against your own account. Report the post to the moderation team for review by using the appropriate link:
• On the forums, use the Report Bad Post function by clicking on the red and white triangle icon on the post
•On My DDO, click on "Report this post"
•On the Compendium, click on “Report Article”
Abuse of the Reporting System is prohibited.

16. Users are entitled to one primary Community account for posting on the Community Sites. Players who are found posting from more than one account may be asked to declare a primary account and posting privileges will be removed from all other accounts. Secondary accounts created for the purpose of trolling or otherwise violating these Community Guidelines may result in the permanent ban of any and all associated Community and Game accounts, at the Turbine Community Team's discretion.

17. We do not publicly discuss moderation decisions, or disciplinary actions taken against members, on the Community Sites and we ask that you do not either. Any threads or posts that mention infractions, bans, or thread/post deletions or modifications, etc. are subject to removal and may result in further disciplinary action.

18. Users must not violate, or promote the violation of, Turbine’s terms of service, codes of conduct or end user license agreements.

19. Posting the same thread to multiple forums ("cross-posting") without express permission of the Turbine Community Team is not allowed.

20. You may not post, repost, or link to any information covered under a Non-disclosure agreement, including but not limited to spoilers, screen shots, and videos.

21. You may not deliberately misrepresent yourself as another player or guild in your posts, linked images, or signature.

[ClericDude]

I'm pretty sure there were legitimate grounds for banning in these cases. For example, on Argo, the clerics were using the LFG page to say they were on strike rather than its intended purpose. On the forums, people were discussing in-game punishment on the forums, which is apparently a no-no. Especially in the first case, it would be nice if that rule were applied either uniformly or not at all, but that's beside the point. If you're breaking the rules, it's at the discretion of the mod/GM/whatever whether to bring down the hammer.

The lesson here is that, although you're free to gather/protest however much you like, if you are going to ruffle establishment feathers, make sure you're on solid ground overall. If you're ticking them off, they aren't likely to give you the benefit of the doubt, even if the rule you're violating is generally not enforced.

[Arisa316]

I understand that completly but my problem with this was I joined a group to ask *** and the booted the entire group. I didn't get even a warning of "You are violating such and such a rule at this link." They just booted me. And as I said because they gave me no warning I can take this to the federal government and sue them for hacking reasons. It is the law! If you need the link that says such I will send it to you. Next time devs / gms / whoever is REALLY in charge please tell the ENTIRE party for some may not actually be breaking the rule and just askign questions and PLEASE post up the new rules for booting / ban. If I can not join a group for fear of being booted or even repeat a quest (like Delara) for XP then that is just wrong and Warner Brothers Inc. needs to know!

[dkyle]

because they gave me no warning I can take this to the federal government and sue them for hacking reasons. It is the law!

Not it isn't. Software you installed is responding as it's designed to do to instructions from their servers.


If you need the link that says such I will send it to you.

Sure. Could be amusing.

[Arisa316]

First of all there is the government like you asked for http://www.justice.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm also here is another link to take a close look at http://www.iwar.org.uk/law/resources/doj/1362NEW.htm


And second the reason why this is considered a federal violation is because it is stated and listed under Computer Intrusion. Under crime statute 18 U.S.C. §1030, ( here is the link to read what that is: http://www.justice.gov/criminal/cybercrime/1030_new.html ) that unless they can prove they had indeed shut my personal program down from the Trubine communications office they have violated the federal law.





NOTE: I had to re-install BOTH DDO and my Directx due to them booting me because a direct dll file to run the game was damaged during this process. It took me a total of 4 hours to even get any game (due to the dll file) on my computer running again. ><

[soupertc]

-useing-


-opintion- speach- persona- ming






I am sorry but I cannot respond till these words have been fixed!!!! :) J/K...kinda....

[Arisa316]

Post if you want or don't. The fact of the matter still stands as it was written. (besides... my speach impetitment didn't help me at all for grammer. I will say sorry to the whole that reads my mistakes :p)

[Chai]

...

[Arisa316]

...



I see no reason why you posted here. Unless, you are keeping an opinion to yourself and if so I ask please say it or go elsewhere. I do not want my thread filled with useless jabber. Thank you kindly. ^^

[Alexandryte]

Lets look at the opposite side of the issue: Did you really think they were going to sit back while you threw a "Boston Tea Party" on their turf (the game client and the forums)?


Also you are ignoring the ToS, ToA, and EULA by focusing solely on forum policy but arguing both ingame and forum conduct.

A cheap smokescreen that the law community is well aware of.

A better option rather than lighting torches, sharpening pitchforks, and amassing randoms would be to approach this in ... oh I don't know...an adult fashion. Aka not forming a lynching mob and expecting to get away with it with random court cases and gusto under your belt.

You would have been better off remaining normal and querying on the forums if the changes were intended and why. Instead you went in "bull in china shop" style. Expecting Turbine to take you seriously now is a serious stretch.



(BTW: 18. Users must not violate, or promote the violation of, Turbine’s terms of service, codes of conduct or end user license agreements.)

[Impaqt]

~silly links removed


NOTE: I had to re-install BOTH DDO and my Directx due to them booting me because a direct dll file to run the game was damaged during this process. It took me a total of 4 hours to even get any game (due to the dll file) on my computer running again. ><

Turbine didnt do anything to your PC. they severed the connection to their Server. if your computer broke due to that, its not their responsibility.

next time, send a /tell if you want to play innocent.

[Arisa316]

Lets look at the opposite side of the issue: Did you really think they were going to sit back while you threw a "Boston Tea Party" on their turf (the game client and the forums)?


Also you are ignoring the ToS, ToA, and EULA by focusing solely on forum policy but arguing both ingame and forum conduct.

A cheap smokescreen that the law community is well aware of.

A better option rather than lighting torches, sharpening pitchforks, and amassing randoms would be to approach this in ... oh I don't know...an adult fashion. Aka not forming a lynching mob and expecting to get away with it with random court cases and gusto under your belt.

You would have been better off remaining normal and querying on the forums if the changes were intended and why. Instead you went in "bull in china shop" style. Expecting Turbine to take you seriously now is a serious stretch.



(BTW: 18. Users must not violate, or promote the violation of, Turbine’s terms of service, codes of conduct or end user license agreements.)





Well as for your post you may have not read all that I have said either here or in other places. I was not starting up a "boston tea party" but rather I joined someones party to ask what all the hub-bub was about (due to not reading the forums for a few hours for being in game) and was booted wihtout warning AND having part of my personal computer system being damaged with my dll file. I came here to tell of my story and of my opinion about the current status and bad customer service. I did not plan on lighting a "tourch" but express my FREEDOM OF SPEACH.

(BTW: what do you expect me to do. If I called up a GM to speak of this i would have been banned for "messing" with the GM and calling on them for no real help. I do not intend to take Turbine nor Warner Brothers Inc. to court in any manner. I am just stating a simple fact of game. As many others have stated "It was part of the programing that booted me." If it indeed was I will not be banned nor booted again because therefor it was not a violation of "Turbine's terms of service." And if it was then they can so with me what they wish. I will just push this subject to the big man, Warner Brothers Inc. (who care for great customer service) and possiably even take it to court then.
And if you want to go and say I am violating such a rule then why are you?
14. Do not re-post or quote any materials which violate the Community Guidelines. This includes re-posting a thread or topic which has been previously closed or removed by the Turbine Community Team.)

[Impaqt]

Well as for your post you may have not read all that I have said either here or in other places. I was not starting up a "boston tea party" but rather I joined someones party to ask what all the hub-bub was about (due to not reading the forums for a few hours for being in game) and was booted wihtout warning AND having part of my personal computer system being damaged with my dll file. I came here to tell of my story and of my opinion about the current status and bad customer service. I did not plan on lighting a "tourch" but express my FREEDOM OF SPEACH.

(BTW: what do you expect me to do. If I called up a GM to speak of this i would have been banned for "messing" with the GM and calling on them for no real help. I do not intend to take Turbine nor Warner Brothers Inc. to court in any manner. I am just stating a simple fact of game. As many others have stated "It was part of the programing that booted me." If it indeed was I will not be banned nor booted again because therefor it was not a violation of "Turbine's terms of service." And if it was then they can so with me what they wish. I will just push this subject to the big man, Warner Brothers Inc. (who care for great customer service) and possiably even take it to court then)

Give it a rest. THere is no Freedom of Speech when it comes to other people Property. THe gameis Turbines Property. THe website here is Turbines Property. You have no rights.

[Arisa316]

It may be "Turbine's" site and so forth but they are the lower man to Warner Brother Inc. I still have a right to express my freedom of speach. If you think not then should I dig up the old admendments for you. Perhaps a slightly better edcutaion on America's history may be in store. No offense given out, mind. I as a person have a right to excerise my rights and my right for freedom of speach. If Turbine wishs to take that away then so be it. It will just prove to me what they (not harshing on you turbine... just really ticked at the fact you can be doing so much better) are a poor service and do indeed need to be reported.

[ClericDude]

I could have sworn the Bill of Rights and such only applied to the government infringing your rights. Forum posts, etc. are protected, but not from private companies. So, no, you don't have the right to express your freedom of speech. They are free to block your speech however they like.

[Kaerlic]

I see no reason why you posted here. Unless, you are keeping an opinion to yourself and if so I ask please say it or go elsewhere. I do not want my thread filled with useless jabber. Thank you kindly. ^^

Better delete the OP then ;)

[Impaqt]

It may be "Turbine's" site and so forth but they are the lower man to Warner Brother Inc. I still have a right to express my freedom of speach. If you think not then should I dig up the old admendments for you. Perhaps a slightly better edcutaion on America's history may be in store. No offense given out, mind. I as a person have a right to excerise my rights and my right for freedom of speach. If Turbine wishs to take that away then so be it. It will just prove to me what they (not harshing on you turbine... just really ticked at the fact you can be doing so much better) are a poor service and do indeed need to be reported.

I'm not the one that needs a refresher course on law.

American history has nothing to do with you getting booted from a game.

You have a right to go stand outside Turbine's headquarters(Off their property) and picket them if you wish.

You do NOT have the right to go into their offices and picket them.

You do NOT have the right to go on their forums and picket them.

You do NOT have the right to go inside their game and picket them.

[Tholar]

As for getting booted from the game, from the EULA agreement you signed in order to play:

Termination and Cancellation

Turbine reserves the right to terminate accounts, cancel orders, refuse service, or terminate, deny or restrict access to any person at any time without notice for any or no reason in Turbine’s sole discretion, including, without limitation, for violation of the Agreement. If you violate the Agreement, we may issue you a warning about the violation, or we may choose to immediately terminate or suspend any account. You acknowledge that Turbine is not required to provide you notice before terminating or suspending any account, but it may choose to do so. You understand that online games and services and system specifications necessary to play online games or access any other services may continuously evolve over time. Accordingly, Turbine may modify and/or increase the system specifications necessary to access or use the Game, or any other online game or services, whether free or subscription based, without prior notice and at any time in its sole discretion.

---------------------------

They don't have to tell you anything, they can change the software on you at any time.

[Ninnuam]

First of all there is the government like you asked for http://www.justice.gov/criminal/cybercrime/reporting.htm also here is another link to take a close look at http://www.iwar.org.uk/law/resources/doj/1362NEW.htm


And second the reason why this is considered a federal violation is because it is stated and listed under Computer Intrusion. Under crime statute 18 U.S.C. §1030, ( here is the link to read what that is: http://www.justice.gov/criminal/cybercrime/1030_new.html ) that unless they can prove they had indeed shut my personal program down from the Trubine communications office they have violated the federal law.





NOTE: I had to re-install BOTH DDO and my Directx due to them booting me because a direct dll file to run the game was damaged during this process. It took me a total of 4 hours to even get any game (due to the dll file) on my computer running again. ><


First off, no one "hacked" you to boot you from the game. All that is needed to severe your game connection is a kill signal sent from the server to the CONNECTION that YOU made to THEIR server. There is no intrusion so there is no hack. If you are going to make sensationalist claims then at least have the basic intelligence and common sense to understand the concept of what you are talking about.

A "hack" is an intrusive breach into a system by someone not authorized to have access to that machine. You were connected to the game server and all they did was turn off that connection. Almost like you closing the door on an unwanted and annoying person that comes knocking at two in the morning.

If you care to debate this I am afraid you are out of your league. Ask any sysadmin or programmer. Hell ask my 5 yr old he knows the difference.

Have a good day!

[TigrisMorte]

FREEDOM OF SPEACH.
Ah, darling youngling. This is not the court house steps, where you would be arrested if you did not leave while making your "FREEDOM OF SPEACH.", nor is this the city council, where you would be removed if you did not cease making your "FREEDOM OF SPEACH.", and it certainly isn't your home where you may engage in your "FREEDOM OF SPEACH." within certain noise and public nuisance limits.
This is their server, their game, their corporate property. Your freedom is vastly curtailed to their terms of service and discretion.
You have no rights to their service nor custom.
Just like you can not walk into a bank and start hollering over a megaphone if they don't want you to, you can't organize a revolt in the forums nor game unless Turbine wishes to allow it.
In fact you would not be allowed to walk in front of a dept. store and carry a picket sign unless they allowed you to do so, for PR reasons. Private property may be commercial but it is still private.
I am not arguing for or against your "position". I am simply saying that your Freedom of Speech has nothing to do with what is allowed on their property. Instead of hurt feelings and fruitless acts, learn from the experience and
find productive ways to move for change. You have no leg to stand on so drop the "righteous indignation" and see what you have as real options.
Peace, Love, and Free Market baby!

[Valiance]

Wait a second Turibine booted the people who were doing the "cleric on strike" groups?

Did that really happen? Cuz if so..Turbine...lol...come on. Most people were just laughing at those lfms and by doing this you give them some serious legitimacy.

If that happened I seriously can't believe it lol.

V

[BLugas]

Ah, darling youngling. This is not the court house steps, where you would be arrested if you did not leave while making your "FREEDOM OF SPEACH.", nor is this the city council, where you would be removed if you did not cease making your "FREEDOM OF SPEACH.", and it certainly isn't your home where you may engage in your "FREEDOM OF SPEACH." within certain noise and public nuisance limits.
This is their server, their game, their corporate property. Your freedom is vastly curtailed to their terms of service and discretion.
You have no rights to their service nor custom.
Just like you can not walk into a bank and start hollering over a megaphone if they don't want you to, you can't organize a revolt in the forums nor game unless Turbine wishes to allow it.
In fact you would not be allowed to walk in front of a dept. store and carry a picket sign unless they allowed you to do so, for PR reasons. Private property may be commercial but it is still private.
I am not arguing for or against your "position". I am simply saying that your Freedom of Speech has nothing to do with what is allowed on their property. Instead of hurt feelings and fruitless acts, learn from the experience and
find productive ways to move for change. You have no leg to stand on so drop the "righteous indignation" and see what you have as real options.
Peace, Love, and Free Market baby!

Agreed...though don't be that hard on him, give him a chance to be free, give him hope, show him mercy, he does not deserve such a harsh treatment from others. if you treat people like that, you will end up being treated the same way...

also, my dear, while I would love to start a crusade, you have no substance, no sense to stand against them, so please, save your empty menaces for somewhere else and GO ON...it's just a game! if you lost it, you lost it; there is no turning back,The best thing to be done now is to go on with your life, find a new past-time ,if you did not fit here, you will certainly fit somewhere else, my dear..if you knew how many permabans I took before ending up here, you would see that what I say is true...

also...we all sold our souls to them when making an account,the contract contained countless restrictions and warnings we are supposed to follow, you should have read it before agreeing with it, now that your soul is lost, all that can be done is to start a new life: go on, meet new people, don't get surprised by permabans, you will get countless of them on your way to happiness, and always: endure, in enduring, grow strong...

for the crusade.

[Falco_Easts]

It may be "Turbine's" site and so forth but they are the lower man to Warner Brother Inc. I still have a right to express my freedom of speach. If you think not then should I dig up the old admendments for you. Perhaps a slightly better edcutaion on America's history may be in store. No offense given out, mind. I as a person have a right to excerise my rights and my right for freedom of speach. If Turbine wishs to take that away then so be it. It will just prove to me what they (not harshing on you turbine... just really ticked at the fact you can be doing so much better) are a poor service and do indeed need to be reported.

Jesus, I'm not even American and I know you have no FREEDOM OF SPEECH in this area as you so proudly state.

If you just wanted info, why didn't you send them a tell?

You have no rights in Turbines game, forums or property other then what Turbine decided to give you.

[AyumiAmakusa]

It is not against federal law. If you read the Terms of Service, you would have noted that Turbine reserves all right to prevent you from further using the 'Service' they provide which includes DDO. They can do anything they want and you are in no legal position to take action against them. Perhaps you can file a complaint with BBB but I highly doubt that will get you anywhere.

EDIT: Just to clarify what I mean. Here's a copied page from their Terms of Service.




Termination and Cancellation

Turbine reserves the right to terminate accounts, cancel orders, refuse service, or terminate, deny or restrict access to any person at any time without notice for any or no reason in Turbine’s sole discretion, including, without limitation, for violation of the ToS. If you violate the ToS, we may issue you a warning about the violation, or we may choose to immediately terminate or suspend any account. You acknowledge that Turbine is not required to provide you notice before terminating or suspending any account, but it may choose to do so. You understand that online games and services and system specifications necessary to play online games or access any other services may continuously evolve over time. Accordingly, Turbine may modify and/or increase the system specifications necessary to access or use the Turbine Service, or any other online game or services, whether free or subscription based, without prior notice and at any time in its sole discretion.

You have the right to cancel your account with Turbine at any time by following the procedures made available by Turbine. You understand and agree that, except as expressly provided by law, the cancellation of your account is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with Turbine. This includes, but is not limited to, any dispute related to, or arising out of: (1) the Turbine Service or your ability or inability to access or use the Turbine Service or any portion thereof; (2) the ToS or our enforcement or application of the ToS; or (3) the amount or type of fees, charges, billing methods, or applicable taxes, or any change to the fees, charges, billing methods or applicable taxes.

In the event that your account is terminated, suspended or canceled, TURBINE RESERVES THE RIGHT TO COLLECT ANY AMOUNTS INCURRED PRIOR TO SUCH EVENT, no refund will be granted; unused subscription time or any other time lost or spent by you as well as any Game Content or anything associated with account (such as TURBINE POINTS OR in-game items) will be credited to you or converted to cash or other form of reimbursement, and you will have no further access to your account or anything associated with it.

Read the first paragraph and it's pretty clear that you have no legal basis to your claim nor can you sue them for refusing service to you.

[Tarrant]

First of all, we don't discuss bans or other disciplinary action on the forums, so please don't make posts like this in the future.

Secondly, you have plenty of avenues to express yourself without being booted from the game. You could post constructively on the forums and you can discuss it in game in the general chat. What you can't do is violate the code of conduct, which says the LFG tool can only be used for grouping, ie not for protests.

If you feel your were unjustly banned, please contact in-game support using the link in my signature.

Thank you!