Uh-Oh, Argonessen

[Xyphos3]

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/864/screenshot00034f.png

[Xyphos3]

update: the strike is still in effect, and the clerics have decided to play, but they're enforcing a BYOH policy.

[Dcurd]

Please read this post: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3122576&postcount=16

It is an older post, but the same logic applies to flooding the lfg with cleric strike LFGs.

Feel free to demonstrate in another way, but the lfg method kinda breaks the rules so . . uhh . . .don't do that?

[Chai]

Simply. Awesome.

On strike from a game? What are you going to do, go outside and do some real life chores in full rebel mode?

[Xyphos3]

Feel free to demonstrate in another way, but the lfg method kinda breaks the rules so . . uhh . . .don't do that?

We could form a guild "Clerics Union" and refuse to run with anyone besides guild members
but I bet an admin would come along and force us to disband the guild.

[ycy1975]

On strike from a game? What are you going to do, go outside and do some real life chores in full rebel mode?

Reply posts on forum with furious tongue??

[Dcurd]

We could form a guild "Clerics Union" and refuse to run with anyone besides guild members
but I bet an admin would come along and force us to disband the guild.

Have you tried reading the post I linked? It makes it pretty obvious since it outlines what is and isn't proper behavior for the lfg panel.

Here is a hint though: Nothing would happen to you for doing that guild, in fact, it could be kinda fun :) Just don't use the lfg panel for guild recruiting or advertising "NAH NAH WE'RE NOT GROUPING WITH YOU!".

Lfg panel is for people looking for groups, not for guild requirement/trades/protests.

Cheers.

[Kyln]

Have you tried reading the post I linked? It makes it pretty obvious what the clerics were banned for since it outlines what is and isn't proper behavior for the lfg panel.

Here is a hint though: Nothing would happen to you for doing that guild, in fact, it could be kinda fun :) Just don't use the lfg panel for guild recruiting or advertising "NAH NAH WE'RE NOT GROUPING WITH YOU!".

Lfg panel is for people looking for groups, not for guild requirement/trades/protests.

Cheers.

Protests, tend by nature to be disruptive in typically harmless ways. Inconvenient yes, but that is the point, to inconvenience people enough so that they look around long enough to see what is causing the disruption in their normal activities.
You are absolutely correct that they are using the Lfg panel in a way contrary to it's intended function. However, it is simply stoking the players rage. I still think just letting them vent would make it less messy for everyone. Turbine is going to do what they want with their game, but if they let upset players vent, they would probably protest for a couple of days and then go back to normal. Making them feel punished, even if they are in breach of a minor rule, will only make them angrier and more likely to either cause more problems or leave the game.

[Dcurd]

That would make sense, if there were no other viable ways for them to vent. Unless players are making personal attacks and death threats against turbine staff I don't see any of their forum complaints about the cleric aura being locked/deleted.

I do see the logic in it, but real life protesters can't break laws during their protests, and in the same vein players can't break game rules for their protests.

I would love to see some more reasonable debate on the forums about the change rather then the fiery vitrol currently.

Also while I agree with you in practice about not stoking rage too much, I've spent too much time on the internet to believe it is possible to not stoke an anonymous person on the internets rage. Oh how they love to rage :)

[Kyln]

That would make sense, if there were no other viable ways for them to vent. Unless players are making personal attacks and death threats against turbine staff I don't see any of their forum complaints about the cleric aura being locked/deleted.

I do see the logic in it, but real life protesters can't break laws during their protests, and in the same vein players can't break game rules for their protests.

I would love to see some more reasonable debate on the forums about the change rather then the fiery vitrol currently.

Also while I agree with you in practice about not stoking rage too much, I've spent too much time on the internet to believe it is possible to not stoke an anonymous person on the internets rage. Oh how they love to rage :)

Except that only a small percentage of players look at the forums, good protesters make themselves visible to as many people as possible. Real life protesters break laws all the time. Rosa Parks? Generally the laws that are broken are minor and the protesters if arrested, generally a bad idea as it fans the flames, face little real consequences. Kind of like how many people get only a warning for speeding.

I agree with you, I too would like more reasonable debate. I am not sure the dev's pay any attention to what we say, but I prefer constructive methods to anger and hyperbole. (As stated in other threads, it is not the changes to RS in themselves that bother me so much as the short time frame from introduction to overhaul, changes that were certainly more than bug fixes and imo reflect something that was rolled out before it was ready.) I am only pointing out that while you are correct in saying they are breaking rules, what they are doing seems to me to be in complete accord with RL equivalents of protesting.

[Chai]

Except that only a small percentage of players look at the forums, good protesters make themselves visible to as many people as possible. Real life protesters break laws all the time. Rosa Parks? Generally the laws that are broken are minor and the protesters if arrested, generally a bad idea as it fans the flames, face little real consequences. Kind of like how many people get only a warning for speeding.

I agree with you, I too would like more reasonable debate. I am not sure the dev's pay any attention to what we say, but I prefer constructive methods to anger and hyperbole. (As stated in other threads, it is not the changes to RS in themselves that bother me so much as the short time frame from introduction to overhaul, changes that were certainly more than bug fixes and imo reflect something that was rolled out before it was ready.) I am only pointing out that while you are correct in saying they are breaking rules, what they are doing seems to me to be in complete accord with RL equivalents of protesting.

Youre right, except for one thing that didnt get mentioned. This game isnt a free society. If they want to shut you down, they can and will do so at any time. No justification or warning needed.

Thats the major difference between real life situations and in game situations.

[parvo]

Permadeath
BYOH since launch

[Chai]

Permadeath
BYOH since launch

In fact, if you have too many resers in the group, they will even call you on that too, but then you wouldnt be playing real permadeath if that happened...

[Kyln]

Youre right, except for one thing that didnt get mentioned. This game isnt a free society. If they want to shut you down, they can and will do so at any time. No justification or warning needed.

Thats the major difference between real life situations and in game situations.

Sure. However, just because they can do something, doesn't mean they should. I was simply trying to express how understandable the clerics behavior was, how it reflects real life equivalents, and that I feel that Turbine was falling into a bad PR trap by continuing to poke the beast. Sometimes it's better to let small infractions go and save yourself long term trouble with customers. Obviously this is their call, it's their game, and there good reasons to be vigilant in enforcing your policies. Still I think I would have taken a hands off approach for a couple of days.

[Anthem]

Good on you Argo! Supporting LFMs now on Khyber.

[samthedagger]

Incredible. You got seven (count em!) clerics on your server to protest by creating an LFM. That must have taken all of what, two? Three minutes? They give you a prestige class that is over-the-top awesome so much so that every cleric HAS to have it, then they dial it back a bit to just awesome and you go on strike. God forbid they ever reduce the hp bonus for racial toughness to 9 hp or take away the Kensei's bonus to bluff.

Ye gods, people, there are much better ways to spend your time.

[Anthem]

Incredible. You got seven (count em!) clerics on your server to protest by creating an LFM. That must have taken all of what, two? Three minutes? They give you a prestige class that is over-the-top awesome so much so that every cleric HAS to have it, then they dial it back a bit to just awesome and you go on strike. God forbid they ever reduce the hp bonus for racial toughness to 9 hp or take away the Kensei's bonus to bluff.

Ye gods, people, there are much better ways to spend your time.

It's not just the documented changes. It's broken in at least 5 ways (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=263752), not counting the documented changes.

As for the better ways to spend our time, I'll be soloing, doing some laundry, and catching up on some Doctor Who on the PVR. Thanks for your support, and BYOH.

[Daliyn]

You should have maxed your photoshop skills. Now you're gimped, reroll.

[Xyphos3]

You should have maxed your photoshop skills. Now you're gimped, reroll.

You should've maximized your spot skill; it's MS Paint, not photoshop.
PS takes WAY too long to load on any computer and all I needed was a simple crop 'n censor job -
MS Paint did that in less then the time it took PS to load up.

[flynnjsw]

Incredible. You got seven (count em!) clerics on your server to protest by creating an LFM. That must have taken all of what, two? Three minutes? They give you a prestige class that is over-the-top awesome so much so that every cleric HAS to have it, then they dial it back a bit to just awesome and you go on strike. God forbid they ever reduce the hp bonus for racial toughness to 9 hp or take away the Kensei's bonus to bluff.

Ye gods, people, there are much better ways to spend your time.

Hi Welcome

[toughguyjoe]

I guess Macedturkey is a Scab then?

Isn't that what the union boys call the guys that work through a strike?

[WeaselKing]

I don't know about you guys but I am really interested in that Muckbane group.

[Xyphos3]

Incredible. You got seven (count em!) clerics on your server to protest by creating an LFM. That must have taken all of what, two? Three minutes? They give you a prestige class that is over-the-top awesome so much so that every cleric HAS to have it, then they dial it back a bit to just awesome and you go on strike. God forbid they ever reduce the hp bonus for racial toughness to 9 hp or take away the Kensei's bonus to bluff.

Ye gods, people, there are much better ways to spend your time.

at the time the picture was taken and cropped, there was 7 yes.
by the time we all got an offer we could not refuse there was 22 of us.

Hi, Welcome to the forums.

[Tholar]

I'm more concerned about that poor level 8 running dirks over and over, forever and ever. Somebody please let him out!

edit: ok Weasel beat me to it.

[dunklezhan]

Except that only a small percentage of players look at the forums, good protesters make themselves visible to as many people as possible. Real life protesters break laws all the time. Rosa Parks? Generally the laws that are broken are minor and the protesters if arrested, generally a bad idea as it fans the flames, face little real consequences. Kind of like how many people get only a warning for speeding.


Tell me you didn't just compare a protest over a prestige class in a computer game to Rosa Parks. I appreciate you were trying to find a comparison, but, um... couldn't you have picked something equally meaningless to compare it to, like a Hollywood writers strike?

Comparing a DDO protest against Rosa Parks is tantamount to invoking Godwin's Law in an internet debate. Far as I'm concerned you just lost all credibility.

[SaisMatters]

Thank God my main is a Favored Soul!! I'll still heal you! lol. As for my clerics, meh, the pre still makes them better than before, but I'll probally still TR them to FVS.

[phalaeo]

Oh, wow..... I don't know whether to join the strike or scab!
OG!

*bites nails*

[mws2970]

Hi Welcome

^^Yes^^


Hi, Welcome to the forums.

^^No^^

[Gol]

I hope all the striking clerics put up bogus LFMs. That way I can report them all and (hopefully) get them a ban to help enforce the strike.

[Chai]

So lets see...

People are paying to log into a game with a toon they are not going to play out of spite, but rather, they will stand there and do nothing with a message up in the LFM.

If I were Turbine, I would do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. They win. You paid money in order to stand there in full on temper tantrum mode and not play.

Jokes on the "strikers".

The people with the same point of view who are making any impact at all are the ones who dont re up their sub, delete all their toons, and uninstall the client.

[Kyln]

Tell me you didn't just compare a protest over a prestige class in a computer game to Rosa Parks. I appreciate you were trying to find a comparison, but, um... couldn't you have picked something equally meaningless to compare it to, like a Hollywood writers strike?

Comparing a DDO protest against Rosa Parks is tantamount to invoking Godwin's Law in an internet debate. Far as I'm concerned you just lost all credibility.

Lol, of course I don't see them on the same level. I was responding to a statement that real life protesters have to obey laws, and went for the most universal example of protesting that involved violating a minor law (of course it shouldn't have existed in the first place) that I could think of. There are plenty of protests, but when addressing people of which I know practically nothing, I go for the most known examples I can find so that we hopefully understand one another. Not the best fitting comparison, my apologies if I offended.

[Anthem]

So lets see...

People are paying to log into a game with a toon they are not going to play out of spite, but rather, they will stand there and do nothing with a message up in the LFM.

Yeah, maybe they're logged in sitting and motionlessly sulking in front of a static image on the screen.

...Or maybe, just maybe, they're soloing, or they're taking their bank full of full plate, shields and save-or-die weapons and rolling self-sufficient melees, or that bank full of spell pen, Wizardry, Magi, and scepters to roll Wizzys and Sorcs, or they're running their clrs only with trusted guildies, or they logged in for the LFM and/or AFK message and walked off to roll around with their SO, or do laundry, walk the dog, or go rock climbing.

Somehow I doubt they're staring blanky at the screen buffing their fingernails until they're handed a patch.

[Tholar]

Yeah, maybe they're logged in sitting and motionlessly sulking in front of a static image on the screen.

...Or maybe, just maybe, they're soloing, or they're taking their bank full of full plate, shields and save-or-die weapons and rolling self-sufficient melees, or that bank full of spell pen, Wizardry, Magi, and scepters to roll Wizzys and Sorcs, or they're running their clrs only with trusted guildies, or they logged in for the LFM and/or AFK message and walked off to roll around with their SO, or do laundry, walk the dog, or go rock climbing.

Somehow I doubt they're staring blanky at the screen buffing their fingernails until they're handed a patch.

They are walking outside, wondering what that bright warm object up in the sky is. They are seeing green stuff on the ground, thinking this may be fun to roll in. They roll around a bit, and find out "oh, so this is where to dog goes!"

They wander back into the house in disgust, and heal for a shroud pug, thinking it's nice and safe in here.

[Chai]

Yeah, maybe they're logged in sitting and motionlessly sulking in front of a static image on the screen.

...Or maybe, just maybe, they're soloing, or they're taking their bank full of full plate, shields and save-or-die weapons and rolling self-sufficient melees, or that bank full of spell pen, Wizardry, Magi, and scepters to roll Wizzys and Sorcs, or they're running their clrs only with trusted guildies, or they logged in for the LFM and/or AFK message and walked off to roll around with their SO, or do laundry, walk the dog, or go rock climbing.

So what youre saying is they are all going to rebel, and go off and run some real life errands in full on temper tantrum mode until their conditions are met? I think I have a spare pitchfork in the garage if you need it. :p

My point is: Unless they stop paying REAL MONEY to the company they are protesting, they are making NO IMPACT. Quitting is something most people dont have the stones to do, even after threatening to do so repeatedly in fits of Francis-esque nerd rage on the forums. Negative Dodge OMG!!!

Turbine doesnt care if you play your cleric or not, or if you play at all. They care if you pay into the system.


Somehow I doubt they're staring blanky at the screen buffing their fingernails until they're handed a patch.

Let me fix that for you.


Somehow I doubt they're staring blanky at the screen buffing their fingernails until they're handed an enforced 30 day vacation.

Fixed.

Then we shall see how much these people dont want to play, when they cant. I bet most of them will cry about that too, and still to no avail, because there is only one action they can take if they dont like it that will have any impact at all.

[KoboldKiller]

You mean people still wait around for clerics?

Somehow I doubt this little protest had any affect on anything.

[YakoSpiritFist]

What would be funny is if they changed it back and then all of the people that cried it was overpowered go on strike. Complaining about having a more useful healer? What has the world come to? I see this stuff happen all the time in games that have decent pvp, but in a pve game? Really?

"OMG you didn't waste tons of plat and all of your SP to keep me alive because I refuse to buy potions? You must be overpowered!".

[Chai]

What would be funny is if they changed it back and then all of the people that cried it was overpowered go on strike. Complaining about having a more useful healer? What has the world come to? I see this stuff happen all the time in games that have decent pvp, but in a pve game? Really?

"OMG you didn't waste tons of plat and all of your SP to keep me alive because I refuse to buy potions? You must be overpowered!".

Changed it back to no PRE at all you mean?

Heres where you were a few weeks ago, have a nice day.

[YakoSpiritFist]

Changed it back to no PRE at all you mean?

Heres where you were a few weeks ago, have a nice day.

I will, thanks. :)

[Anthem]

So what youre saying is they are all going to rebel, and go off and run some real life errands in full on temper tantrum mode until their conditions are met?

No, I was saying,


maybe, just maybe, they're soloing, or they're taking their bank full of full plate, shields and save-or-die weapons and rolling self-sufficient melees, or that bank full of spell pen, Wizardry, Magi, and scepters to roll Wizzys and Sorcs, or they're running their clrs only with trusted guildies, or they logged in for the LFM and/or AFK message and walked off to roll around with their SO, or do laundry, walk the dog, or go rock climbing.

Did it help reading it a second time, or you still just stuck on the laundry thing? Tantrums have nothing to do with it. If I gotta grind out the dragonshards to respec 4 high-level clerics back into the fun-to-play characters they were before the PrE, I'm going to do it on toons that are more fun to play than a broken cleric is.

Call it strike, call it tantrum, call it whatever you like, but I call it common sense not to be playing what's not fun to play when there are better options.

I'm sorry that I'm not playing my cleric the way you want me to. Really, I'm not doing this to upset you.

[ArkoHighStar]

Are you kidding I think most of the AM channel would pay me to not play my cleric

[Khimberlhyte]

Turbine doesnt care if you play your cleric or not, or if you play at all. They care if you pay into the system.
Oh, Turbine might care depending on how many people follow suit, and for how long they kept it up. If this resulted in fewer clerics from levels 1-8, it would mean more frustration for new players. They are less likely to enjoy the game, since they don't know how to play efficiently, lack the knowledge and/or resources to be self-sufficient, and need a nanny.

After too many party wipes, and time wasted loitering around the market waiting for a hjealer to join their group, it stops being fun. They are thus more likely to quit before spending a penny on turbine points.

That would hurt revenue.

I mostly play in guild or with friends with my clerics anyways, and don't see that changing. I have a self-sufficient bard, wiz, and a rogue that all could use some leveling though....

[Chai]

No, I was saying,



Did it help reading it a second time, or you still just stuck on the laundry thing? Tantrums have nothing to do with it. If I gotta grind out the dragonshards to respec 4 high-level clerics back into the fun-to-play characters they were before the PrE, I'm going to do it on toons that are more fun to play than a broken cleric is.

Call it strike, call it tantrum, call it whatever you like, but I call it common sense not to be playing what's not fun to play when there are better options.

I'm sorry that I'm not playing my cleric the way you want me to. Really, I'm not doing this to upset you.

Um actually, tantrums have everything to do with it. Look around. All the moaning is crazy rediculous, because it has no impact. There is one action people can take that will have any impact, and few are taking it.

And I have said this many times before, but I will say it again. If you immediately gravitate to the flavor of the month, you are setting yourself up to be had, like a baby. Try talking to any of the kensai who specced to great sword the minute they got an eSOS about this one. Or how about all the 8 str 40 dex rangers who completely relied on WoP. There were no LRs back then. /reroll.

A few weeks ago, all the way back to day 1, clerics had no PRE, and they were doing fine. Now they have a PRE and it gets changed a small amount of time later. The fact of the entire matter however, is still this: If you are a cleric with this PRE, you are still more powerful at healing than a cleric without this PRE, if you know how to build and didnt completely screw it up. There is no need to grind out any shards for any respec.

What are we mad about again?

[Kelavam]

Um actually, tantrums have everything to do with it. Look around. All the moaning is crazy rediculous, because it has no impact. There is one action people can take that will have any impact, and few are taking it.

And I have said this many times before, but I will say it again. If you immediately gravitate to the flavor of the month, you are setting yourself up to be had, like a baby. Try talking to any of the kensai who specced to great sword the minute they got an eSOS about this one. Or how about all the 8 str 40 dex rangers who completely relied on WoP. There were no LRs back then. /reroll.

A few weeks ago, all the way back to day 1, clerics had no PRE, and they were doing fine. Now they have a PRE and it gets changed a small amount of time later. The fact of the entire matter however, is still this: If you are a cleric with this PRE, you are still more powerful at healing than a cleric without this PRE, if you know how to build and didnt completely screw it up. There is no need to grind out any shards for any respec.

What are we mad about again?

I have to say, I agree with you most often. It's sad, really. And yes, if there was a huge problem, people should stop paying. Plain and simple. The strike will have absolutely no affect on the way Turbine views things. Will you lose people? Highly doubtful. Will the clerics all strike until it's fixed? Why? Why would they? And even as VIP, does the system not log you off after an hour of inactivity? So to be effective, will they not have to come back every hour to move their character or some such? Seems like the joke is going to be on them...

[Ollathir]

Simply. Awesome.

On strike from a game? What are you going to do, go outside and do some real life chores in full rebel mode?


They are walking outside, wondering what that bright warm object up in the sky is. They are seeing green stuff on the ground, thinking this may be fun to roll in. They roll around a bit, and find out "oh, so this is where to dog goes!"

They wander back into the house in disgust, and heal for a shroud pug, thinking it's nice and safe in here.

I lol'd, both times thanks. +1

[Eckenwiler]

Simply. Awesome.

On strike from a game? What are you going to do, go outside and do some real life chores in full rebel mode?

rofl. Thanks for the lift.

[Chai]

Oh, Turbine might care depending on how many people follow suit, and for how long they kept it up. If this resulted in fewer clerics from levels 1-8, it would mean more frustration for new players. They are less likely to enjoy the game, since they don't know how to play efficiently, lack the knowledge and/or resources to be self-sufficient, and need a nanny.

I actually hope people DO succeed with this. Because the end result will be more self sufficient players. If the bottom end skill level people who NEED a babysitter quit, and the top end of the newbies learns how to be self sufficient faster, then the ratio just improved greatly. That is a win win situation in my book. You guys want to riot? I have a few extra pitchforks in the garage you can use. :D


After too many party wipes, and time wasted loitering around the market waiting for a hjealer to join their group, it stops being fun. They are thus more likely to quit before spending a penny on turbine points.

That would hurt revenue.

Hardly.

There have been many many MANY times when Turbine has changed the game more drastically than this, and peopel threatened to /ragequit over it. They dont quit though, and this is the EXACT point I am making. This is the ONE action people can take that makes any impact whatsoever. A character strike is laughable as long as unsatisfied people continue to pay into the system.


I mostly play in guild or with friends with my clerics anyways, and don't see that changing. I have a self-sufficient bard, wiz, and a rogue that all could use some leveling though....

Sounds like youre already there then...

[twix]

This whole thing seems real pathetic and stupid.Cant believe anyone would take time out of their life to do this in a video game.What do you plan on accomplishing ? Ruining the fun for some people who are looking for a cleric in their group? You sure aren't going to hurt turbine with this.Im glad Idont care if there is a cleric in my group.

O Look at me i gots a nice prestige class that clerics never had before and turbine balanced it more so its not so powerfull.OMG I shall bang my head on the wall and stomp my feet untill i get my way !!! WAAAAAAAAA!! I cant possibly handle healing without the old radient servent because i was gimp to begin with !!! WAAAAA

Get the **** over yourselves please.Holy ****!!!

[Anthem]

The fact of the entire matter however, is still this: If you are a healbot with this PRE, you are still more powerful at healing than a healbot without this PRE, if you know how to build a healbot and didnt use the PrE to make a better balanced all-around cleric.

Fixed.

We're talking about completely different things.

[Yazston_the_Invoker]

After too many party wipes, and time wasted loitering around the market waiting for a hjealer to join their group, it stops being fun. They are thus more likely to quit before spending a penny on turbine points.


OR, perhaps they will use hireling healers, group with FvS, or possibly even try some of the other non-cleric healing builds that often cannot get groups because they want pure healing classes.

OR, even better, maybe people will start using the cure pots they pick up, or possibly some of the newer pallys and rangers that don't know will find out they can use cure wands, or maybe some of these people who you say wipe when they quest without clerics, might ask for advice and learn how to use UMD and different tactics.

OR, they might roll clerics.


You say DOOOOOOM, I say, lets hope this might actually help in some unforeseen way. :D Certainly better than breaking the rules of the game and annoying the **** out of people who actually USE LFM for what it's meant for.

[Graebeerd]

I hope all the striking clerics put up bogus LFMs. That way I can report them all and (hopefully) get them a ban to help enforce the strike.

Amen.

Level 13 FvS here, I'm not on strike, feel free to hit me up if you need a real healer

[Chai]

Fixed.

We're talking about completely different things.

Naaa. I have my battle cleric and my max wis caster cleric and both are still better with the PRE than they were before the PRE. The battle cleric can even swing a weapon now...

But of course its a matter of opinion. If you gravitated to the flavor of the month and you hate it now because its not as powerful, just sit back and think about how it was when there was no PRE at all.

-or-

Start grinding out those dragonshards.

[Khimberlhyte]

I actually hope people DO succeed with this. Because the end result will be more self sufficient players. If the bottom end skill level people who NEED a babysitter quit, and the top end of the newbies learns how to be self sufficient faster, then the ratio just improved greatly. That is a win win situation in my book. You guys want to riot? I have a few extra pitchforks in the garage you can use. :D
I would be surprised if an organized, concerted, long-term effort would arise. I'm not the type to post LFMs proclaiming a strike though, and given the amount that I solo already, my absence would not be noticed by puggers.

I found the aura on my son's 8/1 cleric/fighter to be about as useful as chugging pots, with 3 hp per tick. I haven't tried the burst at level 6-12 yet, but expect that it might be equally if not more useful than the aura.

I didn't have to respec at all other than enhancements, and RS is still better than no RS. Since I play melee-capable clerics, having the aura work properly in melee is nice, and I'm glad that that bug was fixed. Hopefully we won't have to wait long for the rest to get fixed.

I need to check further on my cleric tonight, since the burst used to give double damage to undead, and it didn't seem to be doing that in the Orchard yesterday. If double damage got stealth nerfed, that is about the only thing that I would really miss, and I'll get over it by slowly developing the same calloused attitude towards the game that the vets have earned over the years.

[smatt]

LOL nerd rage... :D

[wolflordnexus]

Oh, Turbine might care depending on how many people follow suit, and for how long they kept it up. If this resulted in fewer clerics from levels 1-8, it would mean more frustration for new players. They are less likely to enjoy the game, since they don't know how to play efficiently, lack the knowledge and/or resources to be self-sufficient, and need a nanny.

After too many party wipes, and time wasted loitering around the market waiting for a hjealer to join their group, it stops being fun. They are thus more likely to quit before spending a penny on turbine points.

That would hurt revenue.

I mostly play in guild or with friends with my clerics anyways, and don't see that changing. I have a self-sufficient bard, wiz, and a rogue that all could use some leveling though....

The thing is they aren't going to change it back If they lose revenue for the early game being to difficult for new players guess what they will do? They will just dumb down the content yet again. Then I get to see everyone going all crybaby about that.

[epochofcrepuscule]

They are walking outside, wondering what that bright warm object up in the sky is. They are seeing green stuff on the ground, thinking this may be fun to roll in. They roll around a bit, and find out "oh, so this is where to dog goes!"

They wander back into the house in disgust, and heal for a shroud pug, thinking it's nice and safe in here.



Simply. Awesome.

On strike from a game? What are you going to do, go outside and do some real life chores in full rebel mode?


+1 to ya both!


Also....

OMG, clerics cannot overheal by another 50%!! What are you going to do?!?! Get over it already, all the good clerics will still play theirs.. so the bad ones stopped? I fail to see where the bad part of all this is.

---Btw, yes I have a cleric. No, he has never, nor will ever, have empowered healing. Radiant servant is a gimp pre.---

[Khimberlhyte]

OR, perhaps they will use hireling healers, group with FvS, or possibly even try some of the other non-cleric healing builds that often cannot get groups because they want pure healing classes.

OR, even better, maybe people will start using the cure pots they pick up, or possibly some of the newer pallys and rangers that don't know will find out they can use cure wands, or maybe some of these people who you say wipe when they quest without clerics, might ask for advice and learn how to use UMD and different tactics.

OR, they might roll clerics.
Yes, and they will ride their flying pigs to quest entrances, and learn where the quest givers are too.

You say DOOOOOOM, I say, lets hope this might actually help in some unforeseen way. :D Certainly better than breaking the rules of the game and annoying the **** out of people who actually USE LFM for what it's meant for.
Look again, I did not say doom. By the way, what IS the LFM meant for, anyways? It seems to be less useful than guild chat, and full of pikers and noobs.

[Anthem]

Start grinding out those dragonshards.

That's what I've been telling you is the reason my clrs will be offline for a while. Glad I finally got through.

[Chai]

That's what I've been telling you is the reason my clrs will be offline for a while. Glad I finally got through.

But 2h kensai had it much worse after the eSOS nerf and they didnt quit. They get 18 feats. Dragonshards? Back up the truck.

I dont see the riot coming down the street from my rooftop as of yet.

[Yazston_the_Invoker]

Yes, and they will ride their flying pigs to quest entrances, and learn where the quest givers are too.

I would prefer a Pony...a WARpony specifically, and if you happen to get a line on where they are handing out these fabulous animals, I would appreciate a heads up! :D


Look again, I did not say doom. By the way, what IS the LFM meant for, anyways? It seems to be less useful than guild chat, and full of pikers and noobs.

Correct, you did not say specifically DOOOOOM, but what you describe in your post just happens to be a downward spiral of DOOOOOM. I prefer to look on the positive, especially since I believe this is a silly gesture that will net no real results. (besides perhaps some clerical timeouts) I apologize for paraphrasing. ;)

[Khimberlhyte]

Correct, you did not say specifically DOOOOOM, but what you describe in your post just happens to be a downward spiral of DOOOOOM. I prefer to look on the positive, especially since I believe this is a silly gesture that will net no real results. (besides perhaps some clerical timeouts) I apologize for paraphrasing. ;)
Much as I loved the some of the stuff in the first iteration of Radiant Servant, I agree that the clerics strike is unlikely to do much. It would take a concerted and sustained effort by far too many people to have even a measurable impact on Turbine. Quite frankly, the changes didn't affect me enough to be worth that much effort - it's just a game.

The symbolism of clerics banding together is appealing. Perhaps it is the goodies given to the FvS and never to us, the way we are treated too often in pugs, or something else, but clerics tend towards the downtrodden, both in-game and in the forums. It's nice to see some clerics making an attempt to fight the changes, even if it is futile, and I empathize with them. It sucks to have a shiny new toy given to you, and then just as you're starting to really enjoy having it, to see it taken away, broken, shoddily glued back together, and returned to you.

[VeloxLupa]

It sucks to have a shiny new toy given to you, and then just as you're starting to really enjoy having it, to see it taken away, broken, shoddily glued back together, and returned to you.

I definitely agree with this point. I can deal with the functionality change, but the additional new bugs that have been mentioned do make it a little less appealing. I could easily see the reasoning behind toning down the heal output and swapping the levels where they become accessible. I am perplexed at how they managed to break so many other things in the process.

As for this silly strike... I'm crossing the picket lines and I'm proud of it. I'm my guild's main healer, I am on the short list for a few others, and I did it all pre-PrE without the need for built-in spamming. Sure, I hope the devs fix the stuff that was really broken when they changed the functionality (need to swap items, Empower Healing not doing enough, etc) but I'm enjoying myself in the meantime.