TRYING not to blame F2P, but PUG quality lately SUCKS

[LordDamax]

I'm really trying to blame this on bad luck, but group quality lately just SUCKS. I cant help but think it's the F2P stuff and the leveling easy button thats ruining the LFM panel nowadays.

The other day I'm in a crucible, and I'm the rogue. I died on the swim stuck in the fan because my freaking PC went into mouselook mode (and I'm a keyboard only player - I play on a laptop with a touchpad, I dont use the mouse for much, so when I'm stuck in mouselook it screws me up good and I get spun around. BAD news underwater inside a spinning fan). Two others try the swim, and die. I'm about to release (ugh, -30% XP) and someone else releases... so I'km not taking an unnecessary XP hit... he comes back in, dies again. The other monk does the same... release, back in, died. At which point I reigned myself to the XP hit and released... just as I'm about to heal up, the leader tells me I'm the rogue, if I dont release and come do it, shes scrapping the quest.

Really? An ultimatum? Without even asking or checking to see if I've already started the process? I dropped. I don't need that garbage. I'm not a fan of ultimatums.

PUG for crucible again... I join, I ask if he knows the maze... I havent lead a maze run in about 2 years, I'm in no condition to lead it. He says "Of course" - so we fill and go in. We get in, he has no idea WHAT the maze is let alone how to lead it. No one else knows it (cant blame them, I'm one of them). I only had 30 mins to run the quest. I dropped... I know a nightmare when I see it.

Just now I'm running ritual sacrifice... we have no tank... its me (rogue), a monk, 2 clerics, a pale master and a sorc. Shouldnt be a problem. Except that no one is answering calls for buffs (I asked 3x if someone had GH - its fine if you don't, I'll use my scrolls, but I'd rather not waste them if I dont have to). No answer. Someone asks for FoM. No answer. In the fray i'm shooting an earth elemental... one of the clerics comes to assist me. Doesnt heal me at all, but keeps swinging at the elemental, missing I'm assuming because the HP bar isnt moving when I'm not shooting.

The other four run right PAST us, to the next door, and wait there. I type quick 'some help?' and get no response. 10 seconds later I'm dead. Yes, still no heals from the whiff whiff whiff cleric missing the elemental.

I drop.

Thats just three examples of the garbage I've seen on the LFM in the last 3 days alone. Whats going on with this game lately?

A) Yes, this is a rant to blow off steam.
B) Yes, I am an a-hole. You don't need to reply to tell me that because I dropped group mid-quest. Does that make me a jerk? You probably think so... me... I see it as sanity preservation. I've played for years. I can smell a horrible group a mile away. I have no ability anymore to endure a bad pug just to end in failure, or getting my flag in 2 hours as opposed to 20 minutes. I dont drop out on guildies, I dont drop out on friends. Bad pugs? Absolutely. I maintain a healther blood pressure that way.

Flame on.

[MrWizard]

I did not get a resist fire buff til 8th level on my fighter (or any other elemental resist).
One caster at 8th level cast heroism on me.
One caster did blur on a quest.

Only with guildies did I ever get buffs. Outside of that forget it....


Casters: I have only seen one caster use the hypno spell...one. A spell that can stop an entire fight with a flick of a wrist... Not a single halt undead (makes deleras or any undead at low level a beatdown fest).

clerics: deathward and freedom of movement? They have never heard of them. One was stunned when I told him freedom made you immune to hold person (again, other than guildies, 9th level and still waiting

(hint: casters, take hypno and halt undead and heighten....really)
(hint: clerics, take deathward and freedom of movement asap....really)

hint: casters and clerics: it is called 'resist energy'...use it...really


I saw one caster do a hold person...just one time...it was awesome.

I saw some webs out of like 3 casters....one kept fireballing his own though.



Think we need a good video tutorial...

[Antheal]

It's good that you're not trying to blame F2P, because F2P has been around for several months already, not "lately".

But yeah, I probably would have dropped group in that situation myself.

[Consumer]

So Basically:

Run 1 - you messed up and caused a wipe while party members tried to save you

Run 2 - you drop because neither of you know the maze, even though you've played for 4 years

Run 3 - you admit to playing a ranged rogue and getting killed by 1 earth ele


Yes f2p is obviously the problem here....

I seems your way to fast to blame others and then drop group.

[LordDamax]

It's good that you're not trying to blame F2P, because F2P has been around for several months already, not "lately".

But yeah, I probably would have dropped group in that situation myself.

I'm saying the PUG experience for me has sucked lately, not that the F2P is lately...

[Xyzima]

i ran crucible with a guildie and 4 pugs once. Guildie was leading and i was inclined to let him so long as he got the party through.. well he ran off and started doing the maze, and i was helping him because i knew what to do. the rest of the party got lost and started dying, and when i started telling them what to do my guildie started yelling at me that he knew what he was doing.. i said. seems like it but they dont and are dying, thus making us to have an unnecessary exp loss, that could have been avoided if he told them what to do.

Now. it was only the maze that my guildie gave me any problems, afterwards, he being the healer and me being the rogue, we did all the parts ourselves, with the rest there just to fight. and we worked together to get the quest done.

The rest of the party however...


"OK i have the highest Ref save and improved evasion. stay outside this gate which is the trapped room.."
*other person enters
"ok get out.."
"get out.."
"come on... *person's name* go out through the gate"
*person's name dies..

"ok only *wizards name who was the only one listening* goes up to the book as he has lowest wis. everyone else please stay at the stairs"
*the wizard and 3 others rush up to book, one person starts opening doors
*3 of the 4 dies, 1 is incapped
*my guildie heals them
"ok get behind the god damned stairs..."
*people run up and open doors again
*my guildie DOESNT heal them till after part is done
*wizard reads us door, someone wasnt far enough away, apparently, and when my guildie(the healer) opens the said door, he dies.. and i run him back to the shrine
"dont go ahead or you'll die..(to the maze top)"
*party goes ahead and dies while im taking the healer, who has FoM, to the shrine

"kill the stuff, if you fall let me know ill come help you get to ladder, dont touch the wheels or lever"
*person runs straight to the lever, pulls it, and proceeds to try and get the wheels without killing the mobs, or having FoM, and dies in the process..
*me and guildie tell everyone to wait at lever while we do the wheels..

"ok dont go under the water or you'll die.."
*several people go into the water and get eviscerated by traps, making me have to grab there stones..

And a lot of the time during the quests, whenever someone asked for a buff, mainly GH and blur, the wizard(he listened for the most part, but not well), or sorc couldnt do it. since neither had either.


also had some abbot runs where once everyone enters and someone says "lets get deathward" someone starts the quest while the last person to enter is running across the bridge(thus dying) before everyone is even ready, or buffed with deathward/haste, and whatever else may matter.
and when there are people doing this for the first time, or spotting for the first time. it doesnt get explained.

Or people send out mass buffs at the entrances, when not everyone is there, or at the shrines, while the caster(me on my caster, or others) or divine, are resting after they spent all their non rested mana to buff you after you rested...

i think main problems in pugs are poor leadership/communications... not if they are F2P or not. albiet i have had some horrible players.

such as a battle cleric that refused to buff or heal himself while meleeing, and relying on the Nuker specced FvS to heal him. and not casting any offensive magic like BB. or doing a hard coalescense and the cleric running out of mana(all level 20 toons) and refusing to reenter the quest with full(we were after the cube i think) then i DC'ed for 45 minutes, and when i got back on, once the game let me, i was still in the same party, as they were still trying to complete the same quest. and the cleric still hadnt left for extra mana.(didnt expect that. it really surprised me to be in the quest still)

and many such other similar problems

[LordDamax]

So Basically:

Run 1 - you messed up and caused a wipe while party members tried to save you

Run 2 - you drop because neither of you know the maze, even though you've played for 4 years

Run 3 - you admit to playing a ranged rogue and getting killed by 1 earth ele


Yes f2p is obviously the problem here....

I seems your way to fast to blame others and then drop group.

Wow, the "The OP is a total jackass noob" post came faster than I thought it would... congrats on being awesome! :)

[Xatasha]

Its not old or new or Free to play that is the problem with pugs. Its more along the line of people unwilling to adapt to a group.

From what I have seen on my server...two styles of play that don't work well

The speed demon go go go

and

Mister Drop the guy that will drops party for any minor thing that upsets him.

Once I have ID these players I avoid grouping with them

[Xaearth]

Just now I'm running ritual sacrifice... we have no tank... its me (rogue), a monk, 2 clerics, a pale master and a sorc. Shouldnt be a problem. Except that no one is answering calls for buffs (I asked 3x if someone had GH - its fine if you don't, I'll use my scrolls, but I'd rather not waste them if I dont have to). No answer. Someone asks for FoM. No answer. In the fray i'm shooting an earth elemental... one of the clerics comes to assist me. Doesnt heal me at all, but keeps swinging at the elemental, missing I'm assuming because the HP bar isnt moving when I'm not shooting.

The other four run right PAST us, to the next door, and wait there. I type quick 'some help?' and get no response. 10 seconds later I'm dead. Yes, still no heals from the whiff whiff whiff cleric missing the elemental.

I drop.

Well the first two examples sounded rough, but this one sounds more like there were people in the party that didn't speak native English. I've definitely seen this more often recently, and it takes a bit of work to find the words in common you can use to get your point across.

[LordDamax]

Well the first two examples sounded rough, but this one sounds more like there were people in the party that didn't speak native English. I've definitely seen this more often recently, and it takes a bit of work to find the words in common you can use to get your point across.

Maybe. Dunno. But to have a cleric whiffing on the back of an elemental as I'm dying tanking it, and 4 others run right past, then wait at the door about 30' away as I die? Sounds like its more than a language issue.

Oh, and to the post above it... Bravo! The underhanded slap-to-the-face! You get 7 Awesome's!

[MarcusCole]

I just hate the people who pretend like they know everything such as how far you can pull a mob without it rubberbanding. These other people just frustrate me, there are definitely many levels of ignorance, kinda like shades of blue

[Dysmetria]

If you find you are not enjoying yourself while playing in a PuG....stop PuGing.

Run with friends and guildies you are sure will play the way you want them to instead.

[Yagi]

Dont blame the new players for the easy buttons...when I came here I was with a few hundred bros from a vidya board who joined up because it was free to try, and stayed because it was challenging. If we had wanted ddo to be easy or to be like other mmo's, we would have just played another mmo.

I would have finished the quests and thought it was fun, but what do I know I'm just a mod9 noob.

Also if you are unsure or uncomfortable with the swim, practice swimming backwards for a few mins sometime and then try it again and swim it backwards, it gives you better control over your movements.

[MateCarefor]

F2P pugs suck in Crucible, in a pay-for adventure pack, and in Vale for Running with the Devils, a pay-for adventure pack...because of F2P.
F2P meaning something different? Like, 'since DDO got really popular and there is so much new population'?

I get PuGs can suck since a lot of folks are in mega-guilds for renown and such, so a lot of common chat and grouping has moved to /guild.
That would leave the remaining puggers as unguilded, bored, orphaned, whatever. Okay,sooo still missed the F2P part of that.
I also get that there are a ****load of folks reincarnating and thinking they know everything just because they made it to lvl 20 once...in a week...and are back again as pro's.
But then again, those folks likely buy hearts from the store, so are not F2P either.

It was a vent post, I get it, but I think (a) you labeled the wrong group,
and (b) your recounting of events really does not make you or your character/play look very good.
(Died in rogue-specialty-water, tried to milk xp by making others re-enter to rez you for failing, allow 30min for a quest you cannot contribute to expediency on (maze), shooting an elie?, etc)

[Xyzima]

to be fair, he didnt singly out f2p.. since it was crucible it is less likely that they are f2p(im f2p, well premium, but was f2p when i got Gianthold) so it is possible..

[Stermlin]

PuG quality can be annoying at times, although I wouldn't blame the F2P nature of the game at all. Instead, I blame the fact that you can die a million times and the only bad thing that happens to you is you get a repair bill. It's bad groups like the ones cited in the many examples that make me miss the old Everquest days where one death cost you a weeks worth of hard earned experience. If there is no penalty for failure, there is no incentive to improve your character or to learn how to work with others. It's for this reason that I would like to see a real death penalty in this game.

[Rice]

I fail to see how you have any right to get upset at scenario #1 when YOU are the one that died because you choose to not use a mouse. Keyboard turning = lol. If I knew you keyboard turned while trying to do something like the underwater maze I would never group with you.

[Lissyl]

PuG quality can be annoying at times, although I wouldn't blame the F2P nature of the game at all. Instead, I blame the fact that you can die a million times and the only bad thing that happens to you is you get a repair bill. It's bad groups like the ones cited in the many examples that make me miss the old Everquest days where one death cost you a weeks worth of hard earned experience. If there is no penalty for failure, there is no incentive to improve your character or to learn how to work with others. It's for this reason that I would like to see a real death penalty in this game.

This is a ~horrendous~ idea. Take my VoN raid tonight.

Hallway with the spiky-twirly traps on both sides. Rogue 1 goes to get the box. Blows up the box. Dies. Dies a second time. Dies a third time. Dies a fourth time. I get nominated (rogue splash, maxxed disable/search) to try the other side. Since the box is blown on the other side, I'm getting torn apart by spiky-twirly traps the whole time. Save 4 times, fifth one I roll a 1.

You think I should lose a week's experience because the other rogue wasn't capped properly? Or do you propose I bail on the raid the moment the first person dies because I ~might~ roll a 1 (and if you know a way to 'build' past that, you let me know, k?)? Which of these outcomes makes ME a better player? What fundamental failure in my character or in 'working with others' did I make?

Death penalties add unnecessary burden to people who are, in all likelihood, innocent and destroy questing groups.

[Xyzima]

I fail to see how you have any right to get upset at scenario #1 when YOU are the one that died because you choose to not use a mouse. Keyboard turning = lol. If I knew you keyboard turned while trying to do something like the underwater maze I would never group with you.

he uses a laptop. and the touchpads on laptops are ill suited to this game. i know. i have a laptop as well.
I however have a station at my house for my laptop that has a mouse for attaching.

[Rasczak]

pshh I don't blame ftp...I blame WoW.
Autoattack on, rightclick, click, wander off for snacks.....,<DING>
"You SUCK HEALER!!! Why dontzz you Hjeels meh????"

Ever noticed how LoLspeak looks almost the same as the orc's english in Warhammer and WoW?


But on-topic, I can't blame any one thing, make something foolproof and the world makes better fools.......

[Narmolanya]

A couple weeks ago in the crucible I am on my Sorc. I go up to the book and somebody opens a door. My reflexs are slow as I was not expecting it and by the time I react I am nearly dead. So I hit the wrong button on top of it and run forward instead of back taking more damage and die. I get a rez and both I and group leader tell the offending party, who has been using voice chat so I know they were a English speaker, not to do that again. I go back up to the book and guess what boom he starts to open the door again. If he was greifing, wasted, or just a idiot I do not know. What I do know is that stupid stuff like this happens so much lately that I don't even bother PUGing anymore if I can help it, and that makes me sad as I always was a PUG players since I started.

[Aschbart]

This is a ~horrendous~ idea. Take my VoN raid tonight.

Hallway with the spiky-twirly traps on both sides. Rogue 1 goes to get the box. Blows up the box. Dies. Dies a second time. Dies a third time. Dies a fourth time. I get nominated (rogue splash, maxxed disable/search) to try the other side. Since the box is blown on the other side, I'm getting torn apart by spiky-twirly traps the whole time. Save 4 times, fifth one I roll a 1.

You think I should lose a week's experience because the other rogue wasn't capped properly? Or do you propose I bail on the raid the moment the first person dies because I ~might~ roll a 1 (and if you know a way to 'build' past that, you let me know, k?)? Which of these outcomes makes ME a better player? What fundamental failure in my character or in 'working with others' did I make?

Death penalties add unnecessary burden to people who are, in all likelihood, innocent and destroy questing groups.

Actually I second Stermlin's suggestion. If death really meant something, rogues would take more care to properly hone their skills and not be lazy about it in a raid, of all things! In PnP I had a bard with two levels rogue splashes, and when, at level 12, I went to disable a Wail of the Banshee trap (DC 34, and you can't get more than +4 from items in PnP!) I made sure everyone checked their abilities to provide me with even more buffs than I could provide myself. Turned out I only got an additional +1 out of 5 minutes of double-checking, but that reduced my chance of dying from 15 to 10%, and that is huge when upon failure you know you'll lose a whole character level!

I'm not saying we should return to the huge XP penalty (i. e. one level's worth) of the original game, especially since death can so easily be caused by the stupidity of others, but there needs to be a real consequence for someone dying in a quest, that forces people to actually take the time and try not to die in stead of mindlessly zerging ahead.

The only problem is I cannot think of a kind of penalty that might occasionally hit the wrong persons, those who did everything right, including telling others how to do everything right (and them not listening). In PnP, heavy-handed death penalties work, because you're usually bound to continue working as a group, with the same players - so everyone has a strong incentive to cooperate and not unneccessarily blow up the party (although IME this incentive seems to get outweighed by the 'fun-factor' in the eyes of some people ;))

[Ystradmynach]

In general, serious death penalties don't work for MMORPG's that try to appeal to a large enough audience, as DDO tries to do. You end up with too many complaints and too many people quitting because lag, another player, bad luck or lack of either skill or gear kills their character off. The games that do have large death penalties, as DDO once had, end up eventually bowing to pressure and end up trivializing the penalties.

The only way I can see serious death penalties working is if you made it entirely optional, maybe make it an option when entering a quest, such that you get a better chance of good loot in exchange for a serious penalty for dying, sort of like a hardcore mode (separate from the actual casual/normal/hard/elite difficulty setting).

[Rasczak]

Could always just give an xp bonus per character. Did you re-enter? Well we won't punish the party as much as you.

So if you all live you get 10% bonus...if someone all dies you all lose that bonus but the person who dies...well 1st death is free....every death after that nets you a neg 5% xp which is exclusive to the character dying so the entire party doesn't suffer.

[Xatasha]

PuG quality can be annoying at times, although I wouldn't blame the F2P nature of the game at all. Instead, I blame the fact that you can die a million times and the only bad thing that happens to you is you get a repair bill. It's bad groups like the ones cited in the many examples that make me miss the old Everquest days where one death cost you a weeks worth of hard earned experience. If there is no penalty for failure, there is no incentive to improve your character or to learn how to work with others. It's for this reason that I would like to see a real death penalty in this game.


I have to disagree with you on this

1) I cannot speak for everyone but myself and my circle of friends hate to die in game with or without a penalty. IMO most adult players feel this way. A death no matter what the penalty makes you feel like you lost.

2) Many deaths in this game are due to other people making mistakes or unluck. Do you really want to pay the price for someone else's mistake?

3) Poorly designed death penalties will drive away players.


What I see the real problem being is that the community has grown to fast. It was a nice small community of players that had been playing for a number of years with few new adds to the mix. Those that did come could be trained and geared up fairly quick. Like having one new player in a group he is less likely to do stupid stuff.


With all the new players coming in now......well its harder to deal with them all. Its like having one vet in a group of new players. Must more likely you will have some problems.


To fix the problems right now.....well you have to give it time for the communities to stabilize and then mature. Maybe another six months. The big flood of players is almost over and then you have to wait for people to learn.


As for stupid people well....not really something to worry about. Most won't stick around once it gets to hard for them. I have been playing D&D in one form or another since 1976 and one thing over the years I have noticed is that the players tend to be smart tho some are very lazy :) As long as turbine sticks to the core rules of D&D I think tho many will try only those that are really into it will stick around.

[Chai]

Could always just give an xp bonus per character. Did you re-enter? Well we won't punish the party as much as you.

So if you all live you get 10% bonus...if someone all dies you all lose that bonus but the person who dies...well 1st death is free....every death after that nets you a neg 5% xp which is exclusive to the character dying so the entire party doesn't suffer.

I like the way EVERYONE in the party is held accountable for party deaths. I wish it were more so. Quest re-entry should be impossible.

D&D is a forced cooperation team game. The team gets rewarded when it performs well and penalized when it does not.

[Rasczak]

I like the way EVERYONE in the party is held accountable for party deaths. I wish it were more so. Quest re-entry should be impossible.

D&D is a forced cooperation team game. The team gets rewarded when it performs well and penalized when it does not.

Which I have no problem with, except this is about PUG members that don't care at all about the team and only about the 'me'. Added to that DDO isn't quite the party of tabletop involving itself more in a mercenary style of mentality....don't know any of you but I want my gold....

Quest re-entry should be impossible with the instance resetting immediately it's emptied even if not finished and players can't get back in after starting.

[Clay]

Ahhh Damax, you noob.

Next time shoot me a tell. I will hold your hand through those tough quests... ;)

[Maxallu]

So Basically:

Run 1 - you messed up and caused a wipe while party members tried to save you

Run 2 - you drop because neither of you know the maze, even though you've played for 4 years

Run 3 - you admit to playing a ranged rogue and getting killed by 1 earth ele


Yes f2p is obviously the problem here....

I seems your way to fast to blame others and then drop group.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Lithic]

A woman goes to see her doctor.

"Doc!" she says, "It hurts when I touch myself here, here, here, here, and here! (she points a finger to various body parts). I think I've broken every bone in my body, you have to help me!"

The doctor performs some tests and comes back to see the woman.

"Madame, there is nothing wrong with the rest of you, but your finger is broken"

[Chai]

I have to disagree with you on this

1) I cannot speak for everyone but myself and my circle of friends hate to die in game with or without a penalty. IMO most adult players feel this way. A death no matter what the penalty makes you feel like you lost.

2) Many deaths in this game are due to other people making mistakes or unluck. Do you really want to pay the price for someone else's mistake?

3) Poorly designed death penalties will drive away players.

There were games with MUCh crazier death penalties that people still came back to and played alot. In EQ 1 for instance, when you die you spawn a corpse at your death location with all of your items on it and you respawn at your bind point in far away some city. Now you have to run all the way back to the bottom of the dungeon you died in to get your gear back off your corpse.



What I see the real problem being is that the community has grown to fast. It was a nice small community of players that had been playing for a number of years with few new adds to the mix. Those that did come could be trained and geared up fairly quick. Like having one new player in a group he is less likely to do stupid stuff.

I think the real issue is the vets dont want to go through this again. They already went through it once and expect newbies to do the same, but dont want to do it again themselves. When we learned from scratch and were all noob sauce, there was xp debt in this game, curses and neg levels were perminent, con reduced to 0 = death and it didnt tick back to full after a short time. Uphill both ways, 10 feet of snow, against the wind, yadda yadda. :D

Vets are having to either practice selective grouping and group up with other vets, or risk PUGing, and deal with situations they long ago learned how to metagame through with ease. Most will choose the less painful option.



With all the new players coming in now......well its harder to deal with them all. Its like having one vet in a group of new players. Must more likely you will have some problems.


To fix the problems right now.....well you have to give it time for the communities to stabilize and then mature. Maybe another six months. The big flood of players is almost over and then you have to wait for people to learn.

I dont think the big flood will end. In a ratio of 4 year vets -vs- 6 month newbies, the vets are losing numbers due to attrition. When parents cancel junior's WOW sub, the kid ends up here or in another F2P game. 4 year vets cant be replenished. When one quits the headcount just got smaller.


As for stupid people well....not really something to worry about. Most won't stick around once it gets to hard for them. I have been playing D&D in one form or another since 1976 and one thing over the years I have noticed is that the players tend to be smart tho some are very lazy :) As long as turbine sticks to the core rules of D&D I think tho many will try only those that are really into it will stick around.

This also goes for non team players. People who are used to MMOs where you can easily solo to max level by killing outdoor PW world mobs three at a time and get rewarded xp for each kill are in for a surprise when they see that the majority of xp gets rewarded here for quest completion. They either learn to cooperate and run quests, or they solo and slowly grind their way through the levels.

[theb]

I like the way EVERYONE in the party is held accountable for party deaths. I wish it were more so.

Good lord no. Guild+dungeon scaling+f2p+holding everyone accountable for party deaths=0 pugging. 0 good/OK players pugging=perpetually dead, frustrated newbies complaining that the game is too hard (the only complaint Turbine is responsive to) and/or quitting.

What about the time I pugged VON 5 and the rogue died so many times his trap gear broke and we quit? He was the party's only death. What penalty do I deserve for that?

Yesterday I was actually responsible for for a semi party wipe. I was pugging ADQ on casual. My team didn't just get lost, all of them died multiple times each on the way to the quest and then argued with me about what difficulty to run it on when I told them they couldn't handle normal. Then, they refused to believe me when I told them the room order wasn't the list of creatures from A-F in the book. Yes, I simply refused to heal them and let them almost wipe at the skeletons (the sorcerer managed to recall out after going OOM before his friends died) and I refused to raise them. No, I don't deserve an exp penalty for that, although I would have done the same even if it had cost me a character level. Seeing them die in the pit on casual (!) was its own reward.

[Cholera]

I'm really trying to blame this on bad luck, but group quality lately just SUCKS. I cant help but think it's the F2P stuff and the leveling easy button thats ruining the LFM panel nowadays.

Nah, I think you're right – at least for the most part. I've been playing for a very long time as well and something has definitely changed since last Sept. In terms of avoiding the problem, there is no easy answer short of restricting one's self to guild groups. Speaking for myself, I do pug at lower levels and am happy to share a tip here and there when I can.

Unfortunately, one has to bear in mind that many new players do not want help and take it as a slap in the face when it’s offered in the form of information (they tend to be all over free stuff :P). It is these sorts, I believe, that when they make it to mid game and engage in every silly habit / mistaken tactic that vets long ago learned to be counterproductive are impossible to group with because they believe their bad habits are the right choices.

The ones that are happy to take tutelage turn out like a guildie of mine. This fella started playing about four or five months ago and already has two toons at 20 (reasonably well geared-out) and fully competent at end game content. Hell, the guy even leads some of our vets around some missions (ok, just me :P). So, it seems to me that it’s not exactly the new players but rather it’s the new players that won't listen or that get overly defensive at the offer of help. They effectively cripple their own skill set development by being, well, jerks.

[ace_mason]

Maybe. Dunno. But to have a cleric whiffing on the back of an elemental as I'm dying tanking it, and 4 others run right past, then wait at the door about 30' away as I die? Sounds like its more than a language issue.

Oh, and to the post above it... Bravo! The underhanded slap-to-the-face! You get 7 Awesome's!

You are a ranged rogue build. Why are you "Tanking" the ele? Earth elementals are slow and don't move much. If you stay moving which is what a ranged rogue should have been doing you should have been able to heal pot your way through that fight. So you the most experienced player in th party died doing the swim, and then died fighting ONE earth ele? You sir seemed to be the problem in that party.

[rodallec]

its not ur fault. except the swim thats just LOL
play the toon to its skills?
your a rogue. if you pug: go in sneak mode and watch what the silly pugs do
gauge the success rate of quest and stay or teleport out and drop
no one calls a sneaking rogue a piker.

[LordDamax]

and (b) your recounting of events really does not make you or your character/play look very good.
(Died in rogue-specialty-water, tried to milk xp by making others re-enter to rez you for failing, allow 30min for a quest you cannot contribute to expediency on (maze), shooting an elie?, etc)

Hey, at least I'm honest, and not blaming it on lag or any of the other stupid excuses I hear in game for why someone died/something failed.

I didnt make stuff up as to why I bit it in the blade traps, but take your rogue in there on elite, get inside the blades, and have someone shut your monitor off and knock the keyboard/mouse out of your hand, and see if you're still alive when you get yourself re-oriented.

And yes, I was trying to milk XP. I'm pretty sure almost everyone who plays does. Why should I release, and take a 20% reentry penalty, when someone else already DID? You don't need two to make the swim. Two people releasing to do it is just stupid.

And as for the being in a quest I can't contribute to... you win fourteen Awesome's for being more Awesome than me!

[LordDamax]

I truly love the split in this thread.

Half the posts say "I understand"

The other half are trashing me, saying it's my fault, I'm a noob, I'm the one that's the jerk (actually - that was me that said that), and showing me how worthless I am.

It's pretty awesome, and I really do need to thank everyone for showing me what a complete idiot I am. Nine Awesome's to those posters!

[Sickle]

hehe anyone who thinks a little xp penality on death is the end of the world never played asherons call

but i agree about the PUG thing, i now either solo or start a group and just tell them to try to keep up and stay alive

[Hendrik]

I truly love the split in this thread.

Half the posts say "I understand"

The other half are trashing me, saying it's my fault, I'm a noob, I'm the one that's the jerk (actually - that was me that said that), and showing me how worthless I am.

It's pretty awesome, and I really do need to thank everyone for showing me what a complete idiot I am. Nine Awesome's to those posters!

Hey LD, feel your pain!

Gladly help you out buddy! Transfer to Sarlona and join up with EW. All your problems are solved and we have another great player/person added to our ranks!

[LordDamax]

I fail to see how you have any right to get upset at scenario #1 when YOU are the one that died because you choose to not use a mouse. Keyboard turning = lol. If I knew you keyboard turned while trying to do something like the underwater maze I would never group with you.

My point wasnt that I died. My point was that without ever even ASKING, the group leader threw out an ultimatum that I will release and do my job as the rogue NOW or she's dropping the group. Its no different than a cleric being told "heal me" - I was the rogue so it was my job to release and come back in. Or else.

The other two released of their own accord, and when it came my turn to do it, if you bothered to read, I had ALREADY released and was in the tavern about to heal up to make the run back in when the ultimatum was btiched into voice chat.

And are you seriously berating me for my choice of gaming hardware? Thats worth at least 3 Awesome's...

[ace_mason]

I truly love the split in this thread.

Half the posts say "I understand"

The other half are trashing me, saying it's my fault, I'm a noob, I'm the one that's the jerk (actually - that was me that said that), and showing me how worthless I am.

It's pretty awesome, and I really do need to thank everyone for showing me what a complete idiot I am. Nine Awesome's to those posters!

Trust me I understand. And you are correct the pug quality since free to play is HORRIBLE!! But you have to admit, if you would have made the swim and if you would not have died to 1 earth ele. The quest would have been completed with very little problems and this thread would not exist. I think after 4 years of play and I am sure countless pug groups you know better than to stay in "tanking" when you are getting your ass kicked. The swim your fault, the earth ele death your fault, the lessons learned while running with a bad pug PRICELESS! :D

[weyoun]

I'm doing some tr power-leveling right now and pugging spots out. My formula for a winning team is:

1) get a partner, or two so you have a nucleus of game knowledge
2) advertise in your lfm's for the type of player you want, byoh or self sufficient or whatever
3) don't be afraid to ditch/boot people who are terrible/don't listen
4) repeat #2 - 3

You end up with folks who won't hit your lfm because they know you'll boot them AND a group of like-minded and competent players. Just keep repeating the formula. You don't have to be a jerk about it, just tell them that your play styles don't match.

If they listen and don't cost my -10% then they get to stay. The -10% rule is also flexible and depends on how they died, more than if they died. The people who group with me for any amount of time understand that the xp train is a good place to be and once you get on its hard to get off.

[LordDamax]

You are a ranged rogue build. Why are you "Tanking" the ele? Earth elementals are slow and don't move much. If you stay moving which is what a ranged rogue should have been doing you should have been able to heal pot your way through that fight. So you the most experienced player in th party died doing the swim, and then died fighting ONE earth ele? You sir seemed to be the problem in that party.

Good point. But when you're a ranged mechanic build, honestly, the damage output I get on a bigass earth elemental isnt that much. So, like every other ranged character EVER that kites **** he cant kill quickly is told... I stopped and turtled up, to let the melee's take it out...

Now Ace, I've grouped with you before. If I were on my ranged guy kiting something that I couldnt effectively take down, and you were on a melee that could shred it in 2 seconds, I'd be labeled a total moron and yelled at for kiting... STOP MOVING and let us kill it! I've been around long enough to know how to play a ranged character well. Kiting that earth ele that you're doing 1d6 acid damage per hit to? Stop and let the melee's take it out.

So I stopped. And a cleric ran in, cool...

Whiff whiff whiff...

Then 4 others came up... and kept going... and ran past... and stood at a door watching, not healing, not casting, not helping...

I type 'Some help?' and get no response.

It was at that point, out of freaking PRINCIPAL that I let go of shift, and waited to see if Captain Whiff Whiff would bother to heal the guy tanking the earth elemental.

Nope.

It was at that point that I knew what kind of run that would be, so I sat back in my chair til I died, because death/release was the fastest way out of the quest.

If I were soloing the quest, I coulda killed the earth elemental. It seems people keep missing my point on some of these... its not the fact that I died. I coulda avoided that, my UMD on this guy is 36 and I had 94 heal scrolls on me at the time. It's the fact that the rogue has the aggro of an earth elemental, he's getting no help, no heals (two clerics in the group, BTW), four party members run right past me and no one but a +7 hitroll cleric stops to help, and this is all after a ton of other "this PUG is gonna blow" indicators.

[LordDamax]

Makes you wonder what he is doing with his other hand. There is probably a reason the mouse look mode got "stuck". :D

What were you doing with yours when you ran straight off the stairs into the lava the other night in ToD? Hmm?

Goes both ways ya know ;)

[Maxallu]

Earth ele pwnt, LOL!!

Maybe if your camera wasn't all over the place because your stuck on mouse look that would have gone better. Wait a second, if you hit the mouselook key and you are using a pad, all you have to do is stop moving your fingers around, and press 't' or whatever setup you have going on, seems simple enough, unless you got a bit nerd ragey, er, panicky.

[Ollathir]

Good point. But when you're a ranged mechanic build, honestly, the damage output I get on a bigass earth elemental isnt that much. So, like every other ranged character EVER that kites **** he cant kill quickly is told... I stopped and turtled up, to let the melee's take it out...

Now Ace, I've grouped with you before. If I were on my ranged guy kiting something that I couldnt effectively take down, and you were on a melee that could shred it in 2 seconds, I'd be labeled a total moron and yelled at for kiting... STOP MOVING and let us kill it! I've been around long enough to know how to play a ranged character well. Kiting that earth ele that you're doing 1d6 acid damage per hit to? Stop and let the melee's take it out.

So I stopped. And a cleric ran in, cool...

Whiff whiff whiff...

Then 4 others came up... and kept going... and ran past... and stood at a door watching, not healing, not casting, not helping...

I type 'Some help?' and get no response.

It was at that point, out of freaking PRINCIPAL that I let go of shift, and waited to see if Captain Whiff Whiff would bother to heal the guy tanking the earth elemental.

Nope.

It was at that point that I knew what kind of run that would be, so I sat back in my chair til I died, because death/release was the fastest way out of the quest.

If I were soloing the quest, I coulda killed the earth elemental. It seems people keep missing my point on some of these... its not the fact that I died. I coulda avoided that, my UMD on this guy is 36 and I had 94 heal scrolls on me at the time. It's the fact that the rogue has the aggro of an earth elemental, he's getting no help, no heals (two clerics in the group, BTW), four party members run right past me and no one but a +7 hitroll cleric stops to help, and this is all after a ton of other "this PUG is gonna blow" indicators.

Though I wouldn't wish it on you to get into more situations such as this, if it happened again, instead of letting yourself die, I recommend dragging the ele over to the party then port back to Meridia.

[LordDamax]

Earth ele pwnt, LOL!!

Maybe if your camera wasn't all over the place because your stuck on mouse look that would have gone better. Wait a second, if you hit the mouselook key and you are using a pad, all you have to do is stop moving your fingers around, and press 't' or whatever setup you have going on, seems simple enough, unless you got a bit nerd ragey, er, panicky.

I dont have mouselook bound to a key. Not sure why, but on ocassion when I'm using mouselook on my touchpad (by holding down a mouse button) it gets locked on and my camera spins like crazy for a sec. I wind up looking straight up or down or something else cockeyed.

But you're right, you've convinced me that it's my fault that the group leader tossed out ultimatums and acted like a total arrogant tool.

I already said it was my fault I died in the blade trap - I find it pretty awesome how many people are trying to convince me it was my fault :)

Forty Two Awesome's for reading comprehension!

[LordDamax]

Though I wouldn't wish it on you to get into more situations such as this, if it happened again, instead of letting yourself die, I recommend dragging the ele over to the party then port back to Meridia.

They were only like 50' away in game (which isnt far when you learn how far 30' away is so you can get ranged sneak attack). I'm sure it turned on them as soon as I died :)

[ace_mason]

Goes both ways ya know ;)

How did ya know. :D

I m not saying I don't make mistakes. I am a HUGE noob with fat fingers and a tendency to afk to much. But when I make a mistake I admit I messed up apologize to the group and move on. I am not trying to pick on you or troll ya. I wasn't in the party so maybe I am missing a lot of the story. Based on your op it seems like you were a lot of the problem in that one. I agree pugging latley is the worst. There are so many players that suck AAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSS. Unless you were the guy I booted after we ran off the stairs you are a great player and it was probably there fault.;)
Glad you werent in the party when I afked and drown in the water in part 3 shroud. That was embarrasing. :D

[Purgatory]

I'm doing some tr power-leveling right now and pugging spots out. My formula for a winning team is:

1) get a partner, or two so you have a nucleus of game knowledge
2) advertise in your lfm's for the type of player you want, byoh or self sufficient or whatever
3) don't be afraid to ditch/boot people who are terrible/don't listen
4) repeat #2 - 3

You end up with folks who won't hit your lfm because they know you'll boot them AND a group of like-minded and competent players. Just keep repeating the formula. You don't have to be a jerk about it, just tell them that your play styles don't match.

If they listen and don't cost my -10% then they get to stay. The -10% rule is also flexible and depends on how they died, more than if they died. The people who group with me for any amount of time understand that the xp train is a good place to be and once you get on its hard to get off.

dont have to be a jerk? but thats the fun part. Also it saves me the time of trying to remember them all, It's alot easier if they remember me and avoid me :)

[Maxallu]

I dont have mouselook bound to a key. Not sure why, but on ocassion when I'm using mouselook on my touchpad (by holding down a mouse button) it gets locked on and my camera spins like crazy for a sec. I wind up looking straight up or down or something else cockeyed.

But you're right, you've convinced me that it's my fault that the group leader tossed out ultimatums and acted like a total arrogant tool.

I already said it was my fault I died in the blade trap - I find it pretty awesome how many people are trying to convince me it was my fault :)

Forty Two Awesome's for reading comprehension!

If only we could be as good as ******** then we could die on the crucible swim, or get killed by one earth ele, nerd rage, quit and then tell everyone how bad pugs suck and it is all the F2p noobs out there making everything so hard for us mouse pad swimmers out there.

Maybe what the pug leader should have done was make sure that whoever was making the swim was not turning with keys on his wonky mousepad. Because without that horn the rest of the quest is kinda impossible.

I can see it now, "ill get the horn, brb" Ding.

"ARRGHH! stupid noobs! im out!"

Dear DDO.com, pugs suck because blah blah blah.

[LordDamax]

How did ya know. :D

I m not saying I don't make mistakes. I am a HUGE noob with fat fingers and a tendency to afk to much. But when I make a mistake I admit I messed up apologize to the group and move on. I am not trying to pick on you or troll ya. I wasn't in the party so maybe I am missing a lot of the story. Based on your op it seems like you were a lot of the problem in that one. I agree pugging latley is the worst. There are so many players that suck AAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSS. Unless you were the guy I booted after we ran off the stairs you are a great player and it was probably there fault.;)
Glad you werent in the party when I afked and drown in the water in part 3 shroud. That was embarrasing. :D

Haha... now that's gotten a laugh outta me... had someone come in my office just now and ask whats so funny... still chuckling :)

And no, that wasn't me that was booted. ;) I forget who I was on, prob my other rogue she still needs her Whisper ring...

We all screw up from time to time. I went into mouselook inside the blades, got disoriented, rolled some **** saves, and died. Like I said, the issue wasn't that I died, it was the a-hole mentality of the group leader... I was willing to release and come back in, I needed that **** flag (so much so I wound up soloing it on casual for 0 XP yesterday just so I could flag). But others released before me, of their own accord. So, I stayed in, dead, trying to preserve my XP. When it was my turn, I DID release... it was that ahole ultimatum garbage that I was ranting about... funny thing is, the run up til then was SMOOTH... I mean, through the maze in 2 mins flat, test of agility without taking a lick of damage, popped the door on the first try, no screwups on top of the maze... just bad luck getting chewed up in a fan, 20 mins wasted letting the monks try the swim, then unnecessary attitude.

It didnt help that it was 2am at the time, I had to work the next day, and one of the party members had this goofy laugh (and laughed at EVERYTHING... "Hey guy, pull the K lever?" "Ok. huh huh hhuuh huh". "Who's not shrining?" "I'm not huh huuuh hhhuuhh huh huh") that was SO grating on my 2am nerves that I had to squelch him.

But - like I said in the OP - I am an ahole myself, so... ;)

[LordDamax]

If only we could be as good as LordDamax then we could die on the crucible swim, or get killed by one earth ele, nerd rage, quit and then tell everyone how bad pugs suck and it is all the F2p noobs out there making everything so hard for us mouse pad swimmers out there.

Maybe what the pug leader should have done was make sure that whoever was making the swim was not turning with keys on his wonky mousepad. Because without that horn the rest of the quest is kinda impossible.

I can see it now, "ill get the horn, brb" Ding.

"ARRGHH! stupid noobs! im out!"

Dear DDO.com, pugs suck because blah blah blah.

Are you on New Xoriat? Because if so, you're racking up the Awesome's and we should run some raids or something.

You can stop trying to convince me what a jerk I am - it's not news to me ;)

[petegunn]

I'm doing some tr power-leveling right now and pugging spots out. My formula for a winning team is:

1) get a partner, or two so you have a nucleus of game knowledge
2) advertise in your lfm's for the type of player you want, byoh or self sufficient or whatever
3) don't be afraid to ditch/boot people who are terrible/don't listen
4) repeat #2 - 3

You end up with folks who won't hit your lfm because they know you'll boot them AND a group of like-minded and competent players. Just keep repeating the formula. You don't have to be a jerk about it, just tell them that your play styles don't match.

If they listen and don't cost my -10% then they get to stay. The -10% rule is also flexible and depends on how they died, more than if they died. The people who group with me for any amount of time understand that the xp train is a good place to be and once you get on its hard to get off.

Ahh! my dear friend Lysol I was hoping for some juicy input of yours, over on the shrplz thread. Been a long time since I've heard your manical laugh as another noob gets the /boot.

[Folonius]

Just now I'm running ritual sacrifice... we have no tank... its me (rogue), a monk, 2 clerics, a pale master and a sorc. Shouldnt be a problem. Except that no one is answering calls for buffs (I asked 3x if someone had GH - its fine if you don't, I'll use my scrolls, but I'd rather not waste them if I dont have to). No answer. Someone asks for FoM. No answer. In the fray i'm shooting an earth elemental... one of the clerics comes to assist me. Doesnt heal me at all, but keeps swinging at the elemental, missing I'm assuming because the HP bar isnt moving when I'm not shooting.

The other four run right PAST us, to the next door, and wait there. I type quick 'some help?' and get no response. 10 seconds later I'm dead. Yes, still no heals from the whiff whiff whiff cleric missing the elemental.

Take the elemental to the door where the other 4 are waiting. I ALWAYS try to keep up with the majority of the group, and by majority of the group, I mean the majority of the group that knows what they are doing. If the whiff whiff cleric wants to keep fighting the elemental, then leave him there, if it's a bad group, I will make sure I'm always the last to die.

[LordDamax]

Take the elemental to the door where the other 4 are waiting. I ALWAYS try to keep up with the majority of the group, and by majority of the group, I mean the majority of the group that knows what they are doing. If the whiff whiff cleric wants to keep fighting the elemental, then leave him there, if it's a bad group, I will make sure I'm always the last to die.

I see it like a bandaid. You KNOW it has to come off. You can be the last to die, fight, struggle, and pull it off slow... or take your finger off the shift key, die fast and rip that bandaid off quick and drop group and move on to run something else.

[bashemgud]

Keyboard only players are worst than any bad F2p player.

Sorry, but get a mouse ?

[Tumarek]

When i join a group which is attempting a challenging quest (under level or something like crucible which is always challenging) I USE MyDDO to check the leader... if a level 14 guy is trying to do a level 15 quest on elite and he is a palain with 10 const and no heavy fort i dont join.

Gets rid of most of the worst PUGs...

[jwdaniels]

Assuming your laptop has a usb port, a decent mouse isn't all that expensive...

As far as PUG quality, I think you will all find it improves greatly if you simply avoid grouping with people that have ridiculous character names. From what I've found (and this goes back to PnP gaming), if someone can't take the time to figure out a decent D&D-sounding name (or something incredibly witty) they're probably incredibly immature and annoying. Naming a fighter/barbarian Figbar is fine, naming a fighter/barbarian Reginald Foehammer is fine, but naming a fighter/barbarian Konnnnnann, IPunchKids, DPSnYou, or xXAnnhilatorXx is a pretty good sign that you're an immature twit that will drag a group down faster than the drow rogue with a 6 Constitution.

[DelScorcho]

I am not defending pugs at all. That would be like defending Ebola. That being said,
Cruci pugs are notoriously bad because the quest is really designed for one solver and 5 glorified switch pullers. Inactive puggies start surfing the net trolling for midget and donkey pron, and then they are not around to do the one thing you want, "K Switch". When they are not stuck on a switch, they tend to try to do something to appear useful, and that one thing is invariably the wrong thing.

I usually grind this mission to ransack. For the most part, I look to two or three man the mission, because this is all you really need, and at least those two will usually stay at their computer. All vets should know how to do the puzzle, because the mission is a useful XP stepping stone and it really doesn't take that much time to figure it out. Almost any character should be able to manage the swim if the swimmer has pots and takes the time to use them after a run in with the spikes.

[Phidius]

I dont have mouselook bound to a key. Not sure why, but on ocassion when I'm using mouselook on my touchpad (by holding down a mouse button) it gets locked on and my camera spins like crazy for a sec. I wind up looking straight up or down or something else cockeyed...

If you ever find out the culprit (and remember this request), please send me a PM - my laptop does that to me fairly often even though I use an external mouse. I just swear and try to reorient.

Back to your post, though...

I've never been much for PUGging, as my RL friend did that for me and introduced me to the best of the PUGgers he met. Therefore, I don't have any basis to judge recent PUGs compared to pre-DDO:EU. However, I'd say that if you're looking for a quick, painless run you should just carry a few hireling contracts for lever pulling. Save the PUGging for raiding and when you need an added challenge in the game.

Ever since DDO:EU came out, it's easier to solo then group with the unknown, and I'm the lazy type who doesn't enjoy the lower level quests. I applaud Lysol's (I can't believe I typed that :)) method of training PUGgers, though.

[LordDamax]

Keyboard only players are worst than any bad F2p player.

Sorry, but get a mouse ?

Thirty Seven Awesome's for being just that absurd.

[Maxallu]

Wow, handing out awesomes is almost as cool as not plugging in a USB mouse and making some poor pug wipe in crucible and then complaining about it on ddo message boards.

[Pwesiela]

These days, any pug I start normally has the following statement from me after the party fills:

"I'd like confirmation from everyone that they can read or hear what I have to say in this quest and can follow any specific instructions I have. If you don't confirm, I will drop you before we start."

That way there's no excuse and I punt people guilt-free.

[Razcar]

These days, any pug I start normally has the following statement from me after the party fills:

"I'd like confirmation from everyone that they can read or hear what I have to say in this quest and can follow any specific instructions I have. If you don't confirm, I will drop you before we start."

That way there's no excuse and I punt people guilt-free.That's smart. Think I'll steal, erm, get inspired by that from now on. Should even alias it. No response and not afk - boot.

[Pwesiela]

That's smart. Think I'll steal, erm, get inspired by that from now on. Should even alias it. No response and not afk - boot.

I normally follow up with a "Does anyone NOT know this quest?" so I get an idea as to how much leading I'm going to have to do.

I don't mind leading, I just hate finding out that I need to really lead halfway through the quest when the caster runs out of sp miles from the shrine, the rogue dies in the trap, and the barbarian is miles ahead, with mobs doing a victory dance over his now cold corpse. :eek:

[LordDamax]

Wow, handing out awesomes is almost as cool as not plugging in a USB mouse and making some poor pug wipe in crucible and then complaining about it on ddo message boards.

Yes, *I* made them wipe. Keep going this get more entertaining with each absurdity...

[Wizard_Zero]

I did not get a resist fire buff til 8th level on my fighter (or any other elemental resist).
One caster at 8th level cast heroism on me.
One caster did blur on a quest.

Only with guildies did I ever get buffs. Outside of that forget it....


Casters: I have only seen one caster use the hypno spell...one. A spell that can stop an entire fight with a flick of a wrist... Not a single halt undead (makes deleras or any undead at low level a beatdown fest).

clerics: deathward and freedom of movement? They have never heard of them. One was stunned when I told him freedom made you immune to hold person (again, other than guildies, 9th level and still waiting

(hint: casters, take hypno and halt undead and heighten....really)
(hint: clerics, take deathward and freedom of movement asap....really)

hint: casters and clerics: it is called 'resist energy'...use it...really


I saw one caster do a hold person...just one time...it was awesome.

I saw some webs out of like 3 casters....one kept fireballing his own though.



Think we need a good video tutorial...

As for casters, when I'm a Sorc, I don't waste my time picking up Hypno (I rather pick up Web) or halt undead (If there is undead, I just use FW or Web until I get FW) and i even try to avoid heighten if possible, at least until late game. Wizard, it's easy to grab any spell.

LOL, I did that Fireballing thing one time (first time playing as a caster), a caster was throwing out web and I was the Fireballer... good memories. Luckily the other caster said something after 13 webs were destroyed, but I learned.

I remember when I started my first cleric (my first guy), I really had no idea what the difference was between resist and protection, didn't know what FoM did (No one said anything until I got to TS). It takes time, we all were beginners at one time or another. Aggravating sometimes? Yes, but I always try to remind myself I was once that person.

I give out all the buffs I can these days, and people are happy.

[Maxallu]

Yes, *I* made them wipe. Keep going this get more entertaining with each absurdity...

102309289827347n10982730173 awesomes for you! Does that make you an ironic panda?

[LordDamax]

102309289827347n10982730173 awesomes for you! Does that make you an ironic panda?

Now you get it...

[Fenrisulven6]

I'm about to release (ugh, -30% XP) and someone else releases... so I'm not taking an unnecessary XP hit... he comes back in, dies again... At which point I reigned myself to the XP hit and released... just as I'm about to heal up, the leader tells me I'm the rogue, if I dont release and come do it, shes scrapping the quest. Really? An ultimatum?

I thought the rentry xp hit was for the entire party? I'm not sure because my PUGs never need to ;)

But IF thats the case, then its likely the Leader had been expecting you to release (since the penalty was already in play) and didn't understand what was taking you so long.

[Pwesiela]

I thought the rentry xp hit was for the entire party? I'm not sure because my PUGs never need to ;)

But IF thats the case, then its likely the Leader had been expecting you to release (since the penalty was already in play) and didn't understand what was taking you so long.

10% for the entire party

An additional 20% for the individual re-entering.

[Krag]

I thought the rentry xp hit was for the entire party? I'm not sure because my PUGs never need to ;)

But IF thats the case, then its likely the Leader had been expecting you to release (since the penalty was already in play) and didn't understand what was taking you so long.

There is 10% hit for the whole party and additional 20% hit to the reentered person.

[Fenrisulven6]

Ah okay, my bad. Like I said, I dont have much experience with re-entry.

[Phidius]

102309289827347n10982730173 awesomes for you! Does that make you an ironic panda?

-1 to add to your single red box.

[Thrudh]

So Basically:

Run 1 - you messed up and caused a wipe while party members tried to save you

Run 2 - you drop because neither of you know the maze, even though you've played for 4 years

Run 3 - you admit to playing a ranged rogue and getting killed by 1 earth ele


Yes f2p is obviously the problem here....

I seems your way to fast to blame others and then drop group.

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read the OP... Is this whole thread a joke?? I'll go back and read the rest of the thread now... Either the OP is a HUGE loser, or he's master of subtle sarcasm (or maybe both!)

[Maxallu]

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read the OP... Is this whole thread a joke?? I'll go back and read the rest of the thread now... Either the OP is a HUGE loser, or he's master of subtle sarcasm (or maybe both!)

Watch out for incoming 'awesomes' and a critique on your reading comprehension.

But I agree with you.

[Thrudh]

I truly love the split in this thread.

Half the posts say "I understand"

The other half are trashing me, saying it's my fault, I'm a noob, I'm the one that's the jerk (actually - that was me that said that), and showing me how worthless I am.

It's pretty awesome, and I really do need to thank everyone for showing me what a complete idiot I am. Nine Awesome's to those posters!

Reading further, I have found my answer... the OP is definitely NOT a master of subtle sarcasm...

OP, I cannot believe you actually came on these boards and told everyone that you can't solo a single earth elemental without a healer... and then rant about the quality of PUGs... Man, now I'm back to thinking this is just one big hoax thread... the OP can't REALLY be this bad, can he?

[Thrudh]

I'm doing some tr power-leveling right now and pugging spots out. My formula for a winning team is:

1) get a partner, or two so you have a nucleus of game knowledge
2) advertise in your lfm's for the type of player you want, byoh or self sufficient or whatever
3) don't be afraid to ditch/boot people who are terrible/don't listen
4) repeat #2 - 3

You end up with folks who won't hit your lfm because they know you'll boot them AND a group of like-minded and competent players. Just keep repeating the formula. You don't have to be a jerk about it, just tell them that your play styles don't match.

If they listen and don't cost my -10% then they get to stay. The -10% rule is also flexible and depends on how they died, more than if they died. The people who group with me for any amount of time understand that the xp train is a good place to be and once you get on its hard to get off.

Who are you and what have you done with the real Weyoun? :eek:

[Thrudh]

I can see it now, "ill get the horn, brb" Ding.

"ARRGHH! stupid noobs! im out!"


This is pretty typical of many (not all) elite-powergamers... When the new players started hitting the Shroud last winter, we had some underpowered groups...

Instead of using tactics again (like we did way back when the Shroud was new), elite-powergamers would actually get killed in part 2 trying to use min-max DPS tactics in a low DPS group with inexperienced healers... They would die, and then say

"ARRGHH! stupid noobs! im out!"

Very sad... very weak... very typical...

[Thrudh]

Inactive puggies start surfing the net trolling for midget and donkey pron, and then they are not around to do the one thing you want, "K Switch". When they are not stuck on a switch, they tend to try to do something to appear useful, and that one thing is invariably the wrong thing.

Heh, that is sig worthy

[LordDamax]

Reading further, I have found my answer... the OP is definitely NOT a master of subtle sarcasm...

OP, I cannot believe you actually came on these boards and told everyone that you can't solo a single earth elemental without a healer... and then rant about the quality of PUGs... Man, now I'm back to thinking this is just one big hoax thread... the OP can't REALLY be this bad, can he?

Hard as hell to solo a single earth elemental when you step back from the keyboard, intentionally dying as the fastest way out of the quest. Either you DIDNT read the thread, or you're the one trolling at this point.

It'll never cease to amaze me the way people act online when hidden behind an anonymous screenname.

[LordDamax]

Thanks. I wasnt aware that I was so fundamentally stupid til you showed me. Now I know better and I'll delete my characters to save the game from having to endure my pathetic game ruining existence.

Why didnt someone tell me this sooner?

[Braegan]

A woman goes to see her doctor.

"Doc!" she says, "It hurts when I touch myself here, here, here, here, and here! (she points a finger to various body parts). I think I've broken every bone in my body, you have to help me!"

The doctor performs some tests and comes back to see the woman.

"Madame, there is nothing wrong with the rest of you, but your finger is broken"

Nicely done. :)