Paladin tank build?

[Azdraugnor]

I'm coming back to DDO after a fairly long absence, and I'd like to try playing a paladin tank.

I never got very far into the game before, so I have a few questions.

First off, the tank builds I've seen all include "ability to deal good damage while not tanking" on the list. Is this necessary or expected of tanks? Would it be feasible to just play a pure tanking build?

What's a standard paladin tank build? So far, I've only been able to find this one (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3012043&postcount=228), but I'm not sure how good that is. Should I stick with that, or can someone recommend a better (or more standard) choice?

Thanks in advance.

[GhoulsTouch]

I think paladins are better off using Diplomacy to push any hate generated on to the intimi-fighter/barb to heighten their effect so they can play secondary healer...or at least that's what the devs intended I think anyway.

[Azdraugnor]

Ah.

In that case... I realize this is probably the wrong forum to ask, but does anyone know of a good fighter tanking build?

[Strik3r]

I think paladins are better off using Diplomacy to push any hate generated on to the intimi-fighter/barb to heighten their effect so they can play secondary healer...or at least that's what the devs intended I think anyway.

WT*??? lol..

/dats all

[Azdraugnor]

WT*??? lol..

/dats all
Is that not true, then?

[Strik3r]

Is that not true, then?

hell no..pally's make awesome dps with real good survivability and also make pretty good intimi or AC tanks....

refer to Junts guide on pally's he got tank and dps builds- http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218542

also thr are many other posts on good pally tank builds...:)

[GhoulsTouch]

Otherwise you dump alot of skillpoints into intimidate...leaving you practically nothing else.
Diplomacy isn't crossclassed, I think to encourage aggro on the guy with more Hit points is a better option in my opinion. Your stats are already stretched as it is. It helps the cleric focus on one guy in particular, and you are right there at his side for a bit more added support. It is possible to pull more aggro then the tower shield toting intimitank who would be better suited for the job who may need your healing being they would have a harder time healing themselves.

I think I am on another level then you...that's all.

So I don't follow the leader...nor accept you as one. That has nothing to do with game mechanics. The developers made this so, I just said how to use it to its potential.

I guess you didn't think of it that way. No surprise there, most of what people know or think about are contained in these little boxes.

After years of conditioning some people's heads have turned into mush.

[lord_of_rage]

Otherwise you dump alot of skillpoints into intimidate...leaving you practically nothing else.
Diplomacy isn't crossclassed, I think to encourage aggro on the guy with more Hit points is a better option in my opinion. Your stats are already stretched as it is.

I think I am on another level then you...that's all.

Yes a much lower lvl than I am . You can be an effective "tank" without intim. Just hate tank. If you want intim splash fighter or rogue. Its really not that difficult. Or run a build to 20 snag the epic delving shield and a pair of epic chaos blades for hate tanking and see who can pull your aggro. We have seen your interesting builds. I think the only one that was remotly sucessful was your sorc.

[GhoulsTouch]

I didn't say it couldn't be done. Drawing Hate can be done by anyone, and you can invest in intimidation. Just spending all your skillpoints in it leaves your build lacking. To repel them from yourself and having the inimidation tank draw them to himself makes for better crowd control and center for healing.


We have seen your interesting builds. I think the only one that was remotly sucessful was your sorc.

I play more then you know and have several characters spread across every server. The only ones you seen were my early characters when I started to learn. I have one paladin rogue who makes use of improved feint,cleave and great cleave who though using two handed weapons now will in the end use Sheild for DR for when I am in the midst of it before using Improved Feint and most likely bastard swords as I have a ton of them including a plus 3 metalline of pure good stacked away. S&B seems faster then two handed weapons that is why I am going that route. Just as an option of course, I will switch up whenever seems necessary.

http://my.ddo.com/character/thelanis/enderoc/

There he is but like I said before...I don't show all my cards.

If you aren't expecting to draw as much aggro being you can push it off on another melee you can start investing in the stats that are more suitable for paladin. Of course from battle clerics on up everyone wants to be the tank.

[Azdraugnor]

I ended up going with a fighter tank build. Didn't really like the MAD of a paladin tank.

[GhoulsTouch]

This is just for Lord of Rage...and the why's

Diplomacy- to shake aggro, you decided you wanted to be a real casting paladin and thought it better to let the fighter or barb get aggro.

Lower Con substituted for Paladin's shining stats- you wanted to be a caster paladin and you will be giving the aggro to those with more Con and Hp

Higher Wisdom and Strength- You want to dish out damage and Cast spells more like you should have been able to all along.

So the bane of all unprepared puggers who want all the aggro and will get it from you. (Be careful what you wish for) I present a Knight of the Chalice the Shady Crusader.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Shady Crusader
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 322
Spell Points: 467
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 16
Will: 17

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 24
Dexterity 10 14
Constitution 10 12
Intelligence 10 12
Wisdom 13 16
Charisma 13 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 0 5
Bluff 1 4
Concentration 4 20
Diplomacy 3 25
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 4
Heal 1 8
Hide 0 2
Intimidate 1 4
Jump 4 10
Listen 1 5
Move Silently 0 2
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 1
Search 0 3
Spot 1 5
Swim 4 7
Tumble 1 3
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Paladin Redemption I
Enhancement: Paladin Redemption II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I




Now doesn't that seem like fun? I mean who else is going to raise the dead cleric if you took all the heat? Besides your equipment is special to you is it not Drow? *Yark*

[dopamine]

I think paladins are better off using Diplomacy to push any hate generated on to the intimi-fighter/barb to heighten their effect so they can play secondary healer...or at least that's what the devs intended I think anyway.

fail, almost as funny as your build haha...18 str with a 28 point build is just horrible, especially when you claim paladins are "secondary healers"

[Ralmeth]

I think paladins are better off using Diplomacy to push any hate generated on to the intimi-fighter/barb to heighten their effect so they can play secondary healer...or at least that's what the devs intended I think anyway.

I 100% disagree with this. A real Paladin believes in self-sacrifice and will take one for the team. A real Paladin is also brave and will face his/her evil opponents down. Using diplomacy to get monsters to attack your friends instead of you is exactly the opposite of what a real Paladin would do.

[Gercho]

Some people shouldnt be allowed to give "advice"...

[stainer]

I think paladins are better off using Diplomacy to push any hate generated on to the intimi-fighter/barb to heighten their effect so they can play secondary healer...or at least that's what the devs intended I think anyway.

I trying to understand what you are communicating here.

[Arkat]

Some people shouldnt be allowed to give "advice"...

I think Aranticus would approve this statement.

[Eladiun]

OP, read this...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218542

[Eladiun]

fail, almost as funny as your build haha...18 str with a 28 point build is just horrible, especially when you claim paladins are "secondary healers"

I was personally impressed by the 10 con but I guess if you will be diploing all agro you won't need HP.

[Woody00]

I was personally impressed by the 10 con but I guess if you will be diploing all agro you won't need HP.

Actually this build is quite good at avoiding allot of agro. Being in a backpack most of the quest actually prevents getting most of it.

[Madchicken]

I mean come on we all have to have our part in the party and quest.

His is very simple get to the first fight try some of his skills and the cleric back pack his stone to the end.

[Dark_Helmet]

I think paladins are better off using Diplomacy to push any hate generated on to the intimi-fighter/barb to heighten their effect so they can play secondary healer...or at least that's what the devs intended I think anyway.
I think smiting for 500+ might change the monster's mind about that pretty quickly.

Paladins are secondary healers? I thought that is what Bards are good for.

[davidcampa]

I think paladins are better off using Diplomacy to push any hate generated on to the intimi-fighter/barb to heighten their effect so they can play secondary healer...or at least that's what the devs intended I think anyway.


On this one I will have to agree Diplomacy is not a good idea for a tank type build. as some other classes are way more squishy.

If you are soloing with hirelings than you can push the agro on them while you escape is all I can think of. but still does not make sense to waste the pallys few skill points when there are much more useful skills.

[Jugnlix]

**** children, lighten up on the moron (10 Con / 18 Str guy). It is no wonder he uses DIPLO in game, cause he sure as hell doesn't understand it out of game.

[bunitchu]

I think paladins are better off using Diplomacy to push any hate generated on to the intimi-fighter/barb to heighten their effect so they can play secondary healer...or at least that's what the devs intended I think anyway.

1: paladin, no matter how much you try, end up as a melee character, because he has no spells for range dmg, so y the heck do you want the paladin to make the mobs not attack him to then go melee them to death?

2: secondary healers? you serious? ok i suppose the cure critical paladin must b pretty close to a cleric´s mass heal for him to b a decent healer end game

3:Paladins are one of the top dps/tank classes here in ddo, trying to say a paladin should use diplo for not having agro, and stay back to heal...its just wrong...its just.....

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk96/pirudiuva/failtacular.jpg

now thowing the lights on some facts for the OP:

paladins with DoSIII and dr (100% more hate enhancement) get 300% more hate per hit, that with a dwarf + dwarven axe + thf feats(someone told me that helps with dwarven axe glancing blows, never tested ingame) + good stat allocation on build for having good HP and AC + the epic 20 damage reduction he gets from DoS III + a good gear(wont mention epic stuff) make him a perfect hate tank that will keep the mobs chewing on him instead of his companions, and 1 smite evil/divine sacrifice ever now and then makes it have a somewhat good damage output as well while holding the agro on him. Its not really my playstyle to b a tanker...i will even test DoSIII as a dps(i like dps more =3) twf to see how well it does(yeah i would like to try it even though it may b suicidal, the idea will b pretty much land a load of dmg on a mob and keep him comming for me, but that can backfire on a bossfight, will have to test it properly b4 ingame =3, and if doesnt work i can just swap for KoTC since it wont require any change on stats/feats so no big loss)...but even not being a tanker, i know enough to say a paladin CAN make a excellent tanker, but unlike the others that will use intimidate to lure agro, paladin will have to get it by hate, which works better when ur holding the agro of a single specific mob like a named, or a boss, or if you try to use the dwarven axe for glancing blows, you can keep some more mobs in check. You may as well try to splash it with something that gets intim for maxing it for a greater mob control. Pretty much your call

well, thats pretty much what i know of paladin tankers, if anybody can complement/correct my statement for the OP feel free for it ^^.

[flynnjsw]

I think paladins are better off using Diplomacy to push any hate generated on to the intimi-fighter/barb to heighten their effect so they can play secondary healer...or at least that's what the devs intended I think anyway.

At the end of it all OP, Paladin is a melee character, and melee characters do not deflect aggro. They are not secondary healers, they mostly self-heal. After that, any melee that starts with a Con of 10 will not make it above say level 10. If you want a Paladin that tanks, go 18/2 Paladin/Fighter with the DoS PrE line.

[Yagi]

Diplo is not going to do anything in large chunks of the game, you need to be prepared to take hits and be hit with ae's, 10 con is really pushing it.

Work UMD for heals and use wands until you get no fail heal scrolls instead?

[Harncw]

I think paladins are better off using Diplomacy to push any hate generated on to the intimi-fighter/barb to heighten their effect so they can play secondary healer...or at least that's what the devs intended I think anyway.

This is irefudiatable! :D

[Disavowed]

Otherwise you dump alot of skillpoints into intimidate...leaving you practically nothing else.
Diplomacy isn't crossclassed, I think to encourage aggro on the guy with more Hit points is a better option in my opinion. Your stats are already stretched as it is. It helps the cleric focus on one guy in particular, and you are right there at his side for a bit more added support. It is possible to pull more aggro then the tower shield toting intimitank who would be better suited for the job who may need your healing being they would have a harder time healing themselves.

I think I am on another level then you...that's all.

So I don't follow the leader...nor accept you as one. That has nothing to do with game mechanics. The developers made this so, I just said how to use it to its potential.

I guess you didn't think of it that way. No surprise there, most of what people know or think about are contained in these little boxes.

After years of conditioning some people's heads have turned into mush.

Based on that theory I suppose you feel rangers should stay back and wait for aggro as well. Or even better you probably think they should just stand back with a bow.

You are way off base on this one.

[Disavowed]

10con=100%dead.

[Boldrin]

I think paladins are better off using Diplomacy to push any hate generated on to the intimi-fighter/barb to heighten their effect so they can play secondary healer...or at least that's what the devs intended I think anyway.

Are you mentally challenged? Just asking, cuz if you are I completely understand this response.. If not, please learn the game before giving advice, thank you.

Paladins can be great tanks if they stay pure 20 pally. Good Str Con and a little Cha and Wis. With the Knight of the Chalice line and weapons of good, you are an evil outsider (most good raid bosses) slaying machine.

[Boldrin]

I didn't say it couldn't be done. Drawing Hate can be done by anyone, and you can invest in intimidation. Just spending all your skillpoints in it leaves your build lacking. To repel them from yourself and having the inimidation tank draw them to himself makes for better crowd control and center for healing.



I play more then you know and have several characters spread across every server. The only ones you seen were my early characters when I started to learn. I have one paladin rogue who makes use of improved feint,cleave and great cleave who though using two handed weapons now will in the end use Sheild for DR for when I am in the midst of it before using Improved Feint and most likely bastard swords as I have a ton of them including a plus 3 metalline of pure good stacked away. S&B seems faster then two handed weapons that is why I am going that route. Just as an option of course, I will switch up whenever seems necessary.

http://my.ddo.com/character/thelanis/enderoc/

There he is but like I said before...I don't show all my cards.

If you aren't expecting to draw as much aggro being you can push it off on another melee you can start investing in the stats that are more suitable for paladin. Of course from battle clerics on up everyone wants to be the tank.

You're going to switch to a S&B bastard sword user because you have a +3 metalline of PG BS!!! LOLZLOLZLOLZLOLZ!!!!! Can the mods ban this guy from giving bad advice?

[lord_of_rage]

Are you mentally challenged? Just asking, cuz if you are I completely understand this response.. If not, please learn the game before giving advice, thank you.

Paladins can be great tanks if they stay pure 20 pally. Good Str Con and a little Cha and Wis. With the Knight of the Chalice line and weapons of good, you are an evil outsider (most good raid bosses) slaying machine.

Watch out bold he will report you to Tarrant.

[Sylvurdragon]

Just a reminder, we are playing a game based on pencil & paper D&D. (some may argue, loosely-based, but I digress)

The reason why Paladins have diplomacy over Intimidate as a class skill, has nothing to do with how they should be played in game. It has to do with matching their PnP counterparts. Intimidate & Diplomacy in P&P work much differently than they do in DDO in general combat. In P&P the Paladin would try to resolve a combat situation in a diplomatic fashion rather than resort to violence 100% of the time. If he can find a diplomatic solution to a problem, he will go that route. Intimidation is traditionally used by the fighter to try and rough some information out of a particular character. Neither of the two abilities are used in P&P in a combat scenario to draw agro or release it.

Turbine had to implement those additional features to the skills because this is an MMO. An MMO without some way to draw agro from multiple mobs will be an epic fail ;)

[Dark_Helmet]

Just a reminder, we are playing a game based on pencil & paper D&D. (some may argue, loosely-based, but I digress)

In P&P the Paladin would try to resolve a combat situation in a diplomatic fashion rather than resort to violence 100% of the time. If he can find a diplomatic solution to a problem, he will go that route.

I haven't seen very many Paladins like that in PnP!

Here is how I see most Paladins played when they see someone:
Detected evil - DIE EVIL DOER, DIE!
Caught them doing an evil act - see above
Detected chaos - DIE CHAOTIC BASTARD!
Caught doing something chaotic - see above
Caught breaking law - Surrender or DIE!
Holy symbol is from rival god - DIE supporter of a false prophet!
Holy symbol is neutral - Parlay, request they convert. If not, leave or you are DEAD.
Holy symbol is good - Parlay. Make sure they are not falsely wearing that symbol.
:)

[Dark_Helmet]

10con=100%dead.

So, using Turbine math, my 8 con characters will only have a 80% chance to die, right?

[shablala]

This is just for Lord of Rage...and the why's

Diplomacy- to shake aggro, you decided you wanted to be a real casting paladin and thought it better to let the fighter or barb get aggro.

Lower Con substituted for Paladin's shining stats- you wanted to be a caster paladin and you will be giving the aggro to those with more Con and Hp

Higher Wisdom and Strength- You want to dish out damage and Cast spells more like you should have been able to all along.

So the bane of all unprepared puggers who want all the aggro and will get it from you. (Be careful what you wish for) I present a Knight of the Chalice the Shady Crusader.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Shady Crusader
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 322
Spell Points: 467
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 16
Will: 17

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 24
Dexterity 10 14
Constitution 10 12
Intelligence 10 12
Wisdom 13 16
Charisma 13 18





Now doesn't that seem like fun? I mean who else is going to raise the dead cleric if you took all the heat? Besides your equipment is special to you is it not Drow? *Yark*

You serious about these stats? lol

[Ralmeth]

i Haven't Seen Very Many Paladins Like That In Pnp!

Here Is How I See Most Paladins Played When They See Someone:
Detected Evil - Die Evil Doer, Die!
Caught Them Doing An Evil Act - See Above
Detected Chaos - Die Chaotic Bastard!
Caught Doing Something Chaotic - See Above
Caught Breaking Law - Surrender Or Die!
Holy Symbol Is From Rival God - Die Supporter Of A False Prophet!
Holy Symbol Is Neutral - Parlay, Request They Convert. If Not, Leave Or You Are Dead.
Holy Symbol Is Good - Parlay. Make Sure They Are Not Falsely Wearing That Symbol.
:)

Lol!!!! :)

[Mithran]

Back on topic:

The reason a player would design a character for the dual purposes of tanking and dps is because turtling up isn't always constructive. When my 18 Paladin/2 Rogue Nellas (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2637957&postcount=1) is hiding behind her shield in VoD, the emphasis is different than when she's going melee against minor mobs.

If you're looking for a Paladin tank, Nellas has been good to me everywhere outside Tower of Despair.

[joesully]

I think paladins are better off using Diplomacy to push any hate generated on to the intimi-fighter/barb to heighten their effect so they can play secondary healer...or at least that's what the devs intended I think anyway.

Wow. I'm not even sure how to react to this. This is the dumbest advice ive seen thus far in this game. Why is this guy giving advice? I hope this is the last time he posts **** like this to a new player.

[Sylvurdragon]

I haven't seen very many Paladins like that in PnP!

Here is how I see most Paladins played when they see someone:
Detected evil - DIE EVIL DOER, DIE!
Caught them doing an evil act - see above
Detected chaos - DIE CHAOTIC BASTARD!
Caught doing something chaotic - see above
Caught breaking law - Surrender or DIE!
Holy symbol is from rival god - DIE supporter of a false prophet!
Holy symbol is neutral - Parlay, request they convert. If not, leave or you are DEAD.
Holy symbol is good - Parlay. Make sure they are not falsely wearing that symbol.
:)

LOL I like your version. This changes my view about Paladins :)