Antisocial Behavior

[Lyle_Vertigo]

Over the years of playing online games I noticed a steep decline in positive teamwork and communication between the player base not only in DDO but in all MMOs.

Is it the social deterioration of today's kids to blame or the internet's deviant subculture?

It is sad when you can't just say "Hi" to someone without getting the all annoying "?" in response.

What are your thoughts based on your experiences?

[blitzschlag]

It is sad when you can't just say "Hi" to someone without getting the all annoying "?" in response.

you mean like in:
some stranger sends an blind tell with "Hi" and if i'm in the mood i give a polite "?" response?

like the guys that send random skype requests?

there is social networks that would love to have your contact. i don't need something like that in my favourite mmo.

[Killer_Rabbit]

Hard to answer this without heading into the abyss of controversy.

It's not just the kids that are to blame; we've all suffered extremely cretinous types of all ages, and yet I've found myself in parties with younger members with common sense and decency. :)

Well there has always been a 'scum' class, but the internet has given them a voice. Generally as a rule, I hate to judge people; sadly most people these days don't even give you the chance to judge... they earn their label by merit.

[AphexTwin]

I know exactly what you're talking about. But sadly, I think it's only going to get worse. The anonymity that the internet and online gaming offers people gives them psychological freedom because there are no real repercussions to deal with. You can say things you wouldn't normally say because if you said such things in real life situations you'd get your nose broken a lot. People like the freedom to take their aggressions out without consequences, so the online medium is perfect. And the longer the medium is around, the more people will feed their hate, which of course only makes a person more hateful. Kinda like the darkside...

You can be a complete selfish, self-absorbed prick to everyone online, when in real life you wouldn't have the guts. Look at all the horrible, hateful things people say on sites like youtube. (Perhaps I'll even get some nice flames from said people for this post, which would only prove my point.) Of course, I'm not talking about those particularly courageous people who say 'tell me where you live and I'll come say it to your face, and kick your ***.'

I hope though that most people aren't really evil enough to say such horrible things to people's faces, which is a good thing.

[Killer_Rabbit]

I know exactly what you're talking about. But sadly, I think it's only going to get worse. The anonymity that the internet and online gaming offers people gives them psychological freedom because there are no real repercussions to deal with. You can say things you wouldn't normally say because if you said such things in real life situations you'd get your nose broken a lot. People like the freedom to take their aggressions out without consequences, so the online medium is perfect. And the longer the medium is around, the more people will feed their hate, which of course only makes a person more hateful. Kinda like the darkside...

You can be a complete selfish, self-absorbed prick to everyone online, when in real life you wouldn't have the guts. Look at all the horrible, hateful things people say on sites like youtube. (Perhaps I'll even get some nice flames from said people for this post, which would only prove my point.) Of course, I'm not talking about those particularly courageous people who say 'tell me where you live and I'll come say it to your face, and kick your ***.'

I hope though that most people aren't really evil enough to say such horrible things to people's faces, which is a good thing.

You can't be flamed if it's true. :)

The internet seems like a channel created for ease of nutterage.

[MilkmanDan]

The people who say "here is where I live" aren't courageous. They do so believing nothing will happen to them.

And I really don't think it takes guts to be selfish or self-absorbed.

[Kelavam]

I guess you have to look at the type of people these games typically attract. It is sad, but a majority of the people I know who play MMOs or other types of community games, have done so because it's an escape from real life. They either have issues on some level with work, family, or what not.

It is sad, but they get to portray a persona that does not work for them in real life. Some just enjoy the game and do not want to interact with people, because that is what they use the game for, to get away from interaction.

I guess, also, a lot of games of the MMO variety are not made only for groups. The claims of people "soloing x monster" are made a lot in a variety of games. The games are made to be group oriented, but a majority of the people I know play these games solo. When they come to something that they cannot do themselves, they either do not do it, or attempt to group up - and come across as being anti-social.

Personally, it is the community and group efforts that I find most appealing about these games. I prefer to group and have a good time - I personally get bored with games that you sit there, by yourself, and end up having no one to share your achievements with. I think the DDO community has been one of the strongest that I have come across. There are a lot of helpful and friendly people in here.

Anyways, I just think that a lot of times, it's just the type of person that these games tend to draw. It has not been until recently (last few years or so) that the MMO's have drawn the attraction of people outside this stereotype. I have played these games for years, dating back to Mudds, Mushes, Moos... And it was always an individual effort. If something needed help of multiple people, it was a real ***** to try to get a group together to try it.

I hate to stereo-type, but the sad truth is, the type of people you see the youtube videos about, and the jokes about, are there for a reason - because it was true at one point. I know a lot of us can say now that it is not truth any longer, at least, it's pulling away from that. But those gamers are still out there.

But, this is not just MMOs. This is everyone - I think the decline of polite, courteous people has risen. If you walk through a store and say hi to a random stranger, most give you a weird look and walk on.

[Chai]

Its always todays kids who are to blame right?

Never mind the 45 year old men who are 17 year old girls online who look like their avatar in real life.

[Fedora]

I don't think a "?" in reply to a "hi" is necessarily bad. If you sent me a tell, I might think maybe you typed in the wrong name or clicked mine by accident. If you send me a tell with a little more, like "Hi, any chance you'd like to do a quest with me", or "Hi, I'm new here, where do I find the bank" I'd be happy to reply with more than "?".

If you just say into general chat (not a tell) "Hi everyone" someone friendly might reply in kind.

I try to (notice I said "try") to treat everyone in game and on the forums the same as if we were standing in a fast food line together or sitting by each other at a ball game. In other words, polite and friendly. :)

[Kepli_Moonshadow]

I think it's just the interwebz. Giving voice to the silent meek, so they can be as mean as the people they abbhor.

For the most part, I find better relationships here in DDO, as *some* of the people here in the forums have at least a rudimentary education in PnP, and the base desire to play/discuss as adults.

Now Khyber on the other hand........

*scampers back to Ghallanda*

[jinxklw]

I see posts like this pop up every once in a while. I am of the opinion that the "anti-social" phenomenon is much affected by three factors - larger server populations, faster leveling curves, and solo-friendly game play.

In many of the older MMOs (pre-WoW era) server populations were generally lower than we see today. This contributed to more of a "small town" feel as opposed to a "large city" mentality. With a larger server population "anti-social" behavior by a few people can go largely unnoticed by the community as a whole. We don't see entire servers blacklisting a player or an entire guild for poor ethics like we might have seen in some of the old games. When I have a poor experience with another player I may choose to add him to my "ignore" list, but I won't advertise him to the entire community like I might have done in some of the older games.

Some of those older games also had a killer leveling curve. In many games today I can get to end-game in a matter of a month or less (depending on how much I play). Whereas, older games it would take a character six months or much more to advance from level 1 to end-game. In those games I knew that if I burned too many bridges along my path then my options for leveling/dungeons/etc would be limited to the few people who were actually willing to play with me. Starting another character with a new name was not as appealing because it was a lot more work to catch up to where I was before.

Also, older MMOs were not as solo-friendly as they are today. Finding good groups was the only effective way to level a character, and group friendly behavior was rewarded by making friends who could potentially expand my list of group partners. This would incentivize good social behavior. Making many friends was the best way for me to have something to do whenever I logged in. Today, it is just not the same. Most games today have a path for solo play to end-game. This has attracted people who simply want to play the game solo, or with a few close friends, and be left alone by the larger community. MMOs that place heavy emphasis on group play will attract more people who like to socialize and meet new friends. MMOs which allow for solo/small group play will attract players who are interested in that aspect.

Most games today cater to the solo-player as opposed to the games of the past who catered to the group-player. I would be hesitant to say that online society on a whole is deteriorating, but I would say that you are just being exposed to a different type of player. If there was an MMO that came out today which took a year to get to end-game, and you could not make it that far without grouping past the early levels then I think you would find a community of people there who are very conscious of their in-game actions and the way others perceive them.

I daresay we won't see many MMOs like that anymore. They simply are not as profitable.

[Kelavam]

I see posts like this pop up every once in a while. I am of the opinion that the "anti-social" phenomenon is much affected by three factors - larger server populations, faster leveling curves, and solo-friendly game play.

In many of the older MMOs (pre-WoW era) server populations were generally lower than we see today. This contributed to more of a "small town" feel as opposed to a "large city" mentality. With a larger server population "anti-social" behavior by a few people can go largely unnoticed by the community as a whole. We don't see entire servers blacklisting a player or an entire guild for poor ethics like we might have seen in some of the old games. When I have a poor experience with another player I may choose to add him to my "ignore" list, but I won't advertise him to the entire community like I might have done in some of the older games.

Some of those older games also had a killer leveling curve. In many games today I can get to end-game in a matter of a month or less (depending on how much I play). Whereas, older games it would take a character six months or much more to advance from level 1 to end-game. In those games I knew that if I burned too many bridges along my path then my options for leveling/dungeons/etc would be limited to the few people who were actually willing to play with me. Starting another character with a new name was not as appealing because it was a lot more work to catch up to where I was before.

Also, older MMOs were not as solo-friendly as they are today. Finding good groups was the only effective way to level a character, and group friendly behavior was rewarded by making friends who could potentially expand my list of group partners. This would incentivize good social behavior. Making many friends was the best way for me to have something to do whenever I logged in. Today, it is just not the same. Most games today have a path for solo play to end-game. This has attracted people who simply want to play the game solo, or with a few close friends, and be left alone by the larger community. MMOs that place heavy emphasis on group play will attract more people who like to socialize and meet new friends. MMOs which allow for solo/small group play will attract players who are interested in that aspect.

Most games today cater to the solo-player as opposed to the games of the past who catered to the group-player. I would be hesitant to say that online society on a whole is deteriorating, but I would say that you are just being exposed to a different type of player. If there was an MMO that came out today which took a year to get to end-game, and you could not make it that far without grouping past the early levels then I think you would find a community of people there who are very conscious of their in-game actions and the way others perceive them.

I daresay we won't see many MMOs like that anymore. They simply are not as profitable.


I would love to see a game that continued on. A month to finish a game just goes to show the attention span of general populous. That we have to have everything "now" is just sad.

I guess you and I played different games. Very few of the games I played of the multi-user variety were party oriented, minus some special quests. I agree that the games took forever to complete, though, but a lot of the old text based games required days of grinding just to level. MajorMudd (I am dating myself here) had scripting programs that you would have to set up for days to get levels. That was frustrating, but no one was ever online because they were scripting for the next level.

I do not think the solo-ability of the games has changed much. It's been that way all along. I think DDO is an exception, to a point. Granted, after playing for a while you can outfit a character pretty well, freshly rolled, with equipment to solo with. But the first time around (or two), I do not think I could have soloed with the stuff I found.

[herzkos]

Over the years of playing online games I noticed a steep decline in positive teamwork and communication between the player base not only in DDO but in all MMOs.

Is it the social deterioration of today's kids to blame or the internet's deviant subculture?

It is sad when you can't just say "Hi" to someone without getting the all annoying "?" in response.

What are your thoughts based on your experiences?

summer session Soc class by any chance?

my experiences are, that it's not just MMOs it's society in general.
more and more of a "me" only mentality.

[Bogenbroom]

Anti-Social isn't the right term. Antisocial folks are aggressively obnoxious. Yes, there is a segment of the population that is that way. People being resistant to / hesitant of social interactions outside of an accepted structure is the social norm of the day. It is also something that has been drilled into the heads of kids for the last 30 years (stranger-danger!)

But beyond stranger-danger, the world at large tries to force itself into your consciousness (think advertising, telemarketers, etc.) and generally folks adopt a defensive posture to unsolicited communication.

And before you say, but by being on an MMO, you seem to want communication, even in an MMO there are criteria for acceptable unsolicted communication... and if you are not actively in a guild, in a group, or attempting to get into on you are pretty much running into the standard defensive posture. It is jsut liek walking up to some stranger on teh street and saying "hi!" vs walking up to some stranger at a singles club and saying "hi!"

[Memnir]

It's only teenage wasteland!


Actually, kids just learn from adults - so I guess another lyric from The Who may be more appropriate...
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

A lot of the supposed kids you blame for today's "internet's deviant subculture" are probably adults. Besides, communication is a two-way street, and often a problem is more perceived then actual. I'm willing to bet you have begun to look for problems - and have no doubt begun to find a lot more as a result. When you look for problems, you invariably find them.

I see no difference in how the "kids" on the internet act now then how they acted six- plus years ago when I started gaming on the net regularly.

[jinxklw]

I would love to see a game that continued on. A month to finish a game just goes to show the attention span of general populous. That we have to have everything "now" is just sad.

I guess you and I played different games. Very few of the games I played of the multi-user variety were party oriented, minus some special quests. I agree that the games took forever to complete, though, but a lot of the old text based games required days of grinding just to level. MajorMudd (I am dating myself here) had scripting programs that you would have to set up for days to get levels. That was frustrating, but no one was ever online because they were scripting for the next level.

I do not think the solo-ability of the games has changed much. It's been that way all along. I think DDO is an exception, to a point. Granted, after playing for a while you can outfit a character pretty well, freshly rolled, with equipment to solo with. But the first time around (or two), I do not think I could have soloed with the stuff I found.

I was referring mostly to the first EQ, which was really my introduction to MMOs. I had tinkered some with games like Gemstone 3 and DragonRealms, but never really got far enough in those games to learn more than the basics.

I don't claim to be an expert on MMO socializing. I was just writing what I see based on my personal experiences in the games that I have played. I am certain that there are many more factors than what I chose to discuss

[krud]

I think I would also reply with a '?' to any random tells saying "Hi".

If I were feeling gregarious, I would use the /wave emote, instead of a random tell. Less intrusive, and it seems more appropriate in an mmo setting.

[Kelavam]

I was referring mostly to the first EQ, which was really my introduction to MMOs. I had tinkered some with games like Gemstone 3 and DragonRealms, but never really got far enough in those games to learn more than the basics.

I don't claim to be an expert on MMO socializing. I was just writing what I see based on my personal experiences in the games that I have played. I am certain that there are many more factors than what I chose to discuss

I played a little Everquest, but I had a hard time getting into it. Never played either Gemstone 3. DragonRealms sounds familiar, but I cannot place it. I never got far enough in to worry about the partying aspect of Everquest. But I know a lot of games are soloable, which is what a lot of people seem to do.

It's a great acheivement to solo a quest to a lot of people.

But, thankfully, there are a lot of people that are now signing on to MMO for the social aspect. There are games out there, that, quite frankly, I would not play if it were not for the people involved. (no, DDO is not one of them - I enjoy this game on many levels, and have no problem soloing, pugging, or what not when the guild is not around). But any game that requires constant grinding? (Most facebook games, Evony, etc) would do nothing for me if it were not for the people I was socializing with, helping, etc. And I think the crowd of people with my general mentality (go ahead, let the jokes begin.. :) ) of playing the game not only because it's fun, but because it offers a social aspect that is appealing.

I have a wife, 3 kids. It's hard to get out and do things with other people because of work, schedules, etc.. The online communities I frequent give me more than I would be able to get without.

But the fact still remains, people are not expecting friendly and polite, some people are NOT friendly or polite, and to strike up a random conversation is almost unheard of, so when it happens, it catches people off guard.

[Thechemicals]

Its always todays kids who are to blame right?

Never mind the 45 year old men who are 17 year old girls online who look like their avatar in real life.

Yeh but that guy isnt flaming,nerdraging,acting a fool, rude, antisocial, or just a plain ahole. That 45 yr old stalker will also face legal penalties that could remove him from the community.Kids dont get sent anywhere or face penalties, they are just here all the time acting like fools and all of the above mentioned. Worse is that the kids are actually 12-25 yrs old lol.

[Dark_Helmet]

Over the years of playing online games I noticed a steep decline in positive teamwork and communication between the player base not only in DDO but in all MMOs.

Is it the social deterioration of today's kids to blame or the internet's deviant subculture?

It is sad when you can't just say "Hi" to someone without getting the all annoying "?" in response.

What are your thoughts based on your experiences?

Hi Welcome




Better? ;)

[Gkar]

I don't talk to random strangers on the street either. And in my experience the people who have said "hi" to me who were not in my guild/group either wanted something (beggers) or wanted to see if I was really a girl so they could hit on me.

[Zachski]

"?" comes across as "What do YOU want?", which is why I say "Hi?" back

[Fedora]

I don't talk to random strangers on the street either. And in my experience the people who have said "hi" to me who were not in my guild/group either wanted something (beggers) or wanted to see if I was really a girl so they could hit on me.

Hi.

I'm not hitting on you, I just need some plat. :p

[Gremmlynn]

Over the years of playing online games I noticed a steep decline in positive teamwork and communication between the player base not only in DDO but in all MMOs.

Is it the social deterioration of today's kids to blame or the internet's deviant subculture?

It is sad when you can't just say "Hi" to someone without getting the all annoying "?" in response.

What are your thoughts based on your experiences?To me, ? is just shorthand for "hello, what can I do for you". Also, it's not anti-social, asocial at most. Anti-social would be more on the order of "go die in a fire".

IMO, it's those who say "hi" for no other reason then to see if they can manipulate you into responding in kind that are the annoying one's, unless of course it's to cover for for accidentally making eye contact or the like since excuse me doesn't really fit in that kind of situation. Even worse are the noisy one's who follow up with "how are you", but I find that simply answering honestly and in great detail tends to nip that in the bud.

[PopeJual]

shr plz

[AbsynthMinded]

Over the years of playing online games I noticed a steep decline in positive teamwork and communication between the player base not only in DDO but in all MMOs.

Is it the social deterioration of today's kids to blame or the internet's deviant subculture?

It is sad when you can't just say "Hi" to someone without getting the all annoying "?" in response.

What are your thoughts based on your experiences?

I've no trouble talking to strangers in games, except by occasion those with whom I share difficulty understanding because of heavy accent or other communication barrier. In some games communication with that games officials warms the heart in almost every encounter, while others chill the soul, and many fall somewhere in between depending on the cause of the interaction.

My guild not being exceptionally large, we often have to resort to recruiting on direct tells to get the party balance we need for a assured success. Sometimes we encounter those who are offended, but it is very rare as most players seem to appreciate a direct tell asking them for their help instead of the universally dreaded blind invite from persons you can't remember ever playing with.

[Lyle_Vertigo]

Thank you everyone for your responses.

I also would like to point out how the community develops from start to years later. Attitudes in general seem to me slowly degrade as time goes on. Not just from those who develop a "me leet, you noob" mentality but from a general burn-out from playing the same game for so long. Yes, new content comes out here and there, but not in the way to refresh the game's feel. I felt this from both this game and Final Fantasy XI. Both were completely different now than when they first began, in both content and the player-base atmosphere.

The major contridiction I see is the varying differences of curtesy beliefs vs. the behaviors associated with security from anonymosity along with "venting".

I just wish things were the way it was origionally indended. Porn and convienency. Oh, and before text messeging too, but that's another issue :D

[Yuesu]

I’m sorry to say this, but “This is who you are, when there are no consequences.” And the kids are nothing more then “observed behavior times stupidity” We can break it up into whatever sub-culture, stat/static, class, age, or whatever, it still “is what it is.”

Thank God that in real life there are still some laws, morels, and values…

[PopeJual]

I’m sorry to say this, but “This is who you are, when there are no consequences.” And the kids are nothing more then “observed behavior times stupidity” We can break it up into whatever sub-culture, stat/static, class, age, or whatever, it still “is what it is.”

Thank God that in real life there are still some laws, morels, and values…

Yumm...

http://mobflog.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/time-for-morels-the-tasty-mushrooms-more-valuable-than-gold/

http://mobflog.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/morel.jpg

[Missing_Minds]

tv rots the brain.

[Lyle_Vertigo]

tv rots the brain.

So do microwaves, how many here used to stare into the older models watching food cook? (>^^)/

[Loxy39]

I've only played DDO for a short while and one of the first things I noticed was the Newb Haters out there. I didn't think I would like the game at first because being closer to 40 than 30 and a father of 2, I play MMOs to escape lippy kids/immature adults.

I must say though that I gave it chance and am now VIP and I love it and I must say there's a lot of helpful people out there and there's always the ignore list for the Haters.

A game like this is always gonna attract elitists because lets face it, DDO is a lot more complex in its mechanics than say WoW but its also gonna attract a lot of Kids that want there Call of Duty quick fix.

I personally think a lot of the problem lies with the F2P model and this is my fears for LoTRO. LoTRO has imo one of the best communities around and people are most helpful. (First thing I noticed when I started playing a long while back)

You notice all the Newb haters and Anti-Social Behaviour in games like Allods online which is F2P. Its unbelievable how many people you get hanging around the new areas spouting racial hatred and religion just to get people into an argument and there immature brains seem to see this as entertainment.

Way I look at it is if a game is P2P, People have a lot more to loose, Namely there accounts. If a game uses a F2P model then most people can simply set up 2 accounts and use one to be Normal if you like and the other to be a complete Jerk and make as many fellow players game lives as difficult as possible.

Best thing any Newb can do is either join a guild with friends and ask questions there/learn together or join a friendly guild who are willing to help new players.

I have been on both ends, Newb and Master. I have always treated people with the same respect that they would command if I was stood in front of them, Just cause we are online does not give anyone the right to treat another with dis-respect. Kids pipe on these days about respect but they cant seem to understand what the word means and IMO that's down to parents and schooling Im afraid.

[Visty]

I've only played DDO for a short while and one of the first things I noticed was the Newb Haters out there. I didn't think I would like the game at first because being closer to 40 than 30 and a father of 2, I play MMOs to escape lippy kids/immature adults.

I must say though that I gave it chance and am now VIP and I love it and I must say there's a lot of helpful people out there and there's always the ignore list for the Haters.

A game like this is always gonna attract elitists because lets face it, DDO is a lot more complex in its mechanics than say WoW but its also gonna attract a lot of Kids that want there Call of Duty quick fix.

I personally think a lot of the problem lies with the F2P model and this is my fears for LoTRO. LoTRO has imo one of the best communities around and people are most helpful. (First thing I noticed when I started playing a long while back)

You notice all the Newb haters and Anti-Social Behaviour in games like Allods online which is F2P. Its unbelievable how many people you get hanging around then new areas spouting racial hatred and religion just to get people into an argument and there immature brains seem to see this as entertainment.

Way I look at it is if a game is P2P, People have a lot more to loose, Namely there accounts. If a game uses a F2P model then most people can simply set up 2 accounts and use one to be Normal if you like and the other to be a complete Jerk and make as many fellow players game lives as difficult as possible.

Best thing any Newb can do is either join a guild with friends and ask questions there/learn together or join a friendly guild who are willing to help new players.

I have been on bother ends, Newb and Master. I have always treated people with the same respect that they would command if I was stood in front of them, Just cause we are online does not give anyone the right to treat another with dis-respect. Kids pipe on these days about respect but they cant seem to understand what the word means and IMO that's down to parents and schooling Im afraid.

theres no newb hate in ddo, only noob hate

thats a big differance

[Xatasha]

Over the years of playing online games I noticed a steep decline in positive teamwork and communication between the player base not only in DDO but in all MMOs.

Is it the social deterioration of today's kids to blame or the internet's deviant subculture?

It is sad when you can't just say "Hi" to someone without getting the all annoying "?" in response.

What are your thoughts based on your experiences?

The problem isn't social deterioration or kids. It just that the MMO community is growing fast and instead of having a small town feel you get the big city feel. The good news is that our games will last longer and since people are more open on the net you can quickly weed thru the people you don't want to deal with. Still we will have to put up with a lot more troublemakers.

[Lissyl]

theres no newb hate in ddo, only noob hate

thats a big differance

Very true, ~almost~ universally. I was stunned by the assistance I saw the first day I logged in. Positively floored. I mean, 4 hours after I logged on, I saw people -- the SAME people, often -- answering patiently the same question they had answered for 60 other people, and before that 60, for myself as well. I expected it to change a lot when I finally beat the dreaded Misery's Peak (*laugh*) and got to Stormreach, but except for 1 or 2 people, it was mostly the same thing. Now, between adventures, I go to the Harbor to answer newb questions. Sure, I've only been here 6 weeks, I don't know everything, I ask questions too. But what I ~do~ know, I can share. I want to give back to the community just as it gave to me. And I think that that mentality is pretty common on DDO.

The more people you have, the more the 'bad' ones will stick out, by dint of sheer numbers. But pound for pound, DDO is leagues ahead of any other game ~I've~ played, community-wise, including my MUSH days. Either I haven't found the bad parts of the community, or somehow I soothe the savage beast by being there: its the halfling in me. :)

[Xatasha]

Very true, ~almost~ universally. I was stunned by the assistance I saw the first day I logged in. Positively floored. I mean, 4 hours after I logged on, I saw people -- the SAME people, often -- answering patiently the same question they had answered for 60 other people, and before that 60, for myself as well. I expected it to change a lot when I finally beat the dreaded Misery's Peak (*laugh*) and got to Stormreach, but except for 1 or 2 people, it was mostly the same thing. Now, between adventures, I go to the Harbor to answer newb questions. Sure, I've only been here 6 weeks, I don't know everything, I ask questions too. But what I ~do~ know, I can share. I want to give back to the community just as it gave to me. And I think that that mentality is pretty common on DDO.

The more people you have, the more the 'bad' ones will stick out, by dint of sheer numbers. But pound for pound, DDO is leagues ahead of any other game ~I've~ played, community-wise, including my MUSH days. Either I haven't found the bad parts of the community, or somehow I soothe the savage beast by being there: its the halfling in me. :)

The problem is some people become too helpful and then burn themselves out and they start turning mean. Once you start being the good guy and giving out the answers well you also get a bit of fame and a following that will whisper you questions. I have seen it in guild a lot.....you get that one guy that does everything for the guild super helpful and then a few months he gets mad because he feels he put in so much and is not getting back what he feels he should.

Basically you have to be careful not to be taken advantage of and take time off of being the nice guy

[Lissyl]

The problem is some people become too helpful and then burn themselves out and they start turning mean. Once you start being the good guy and giving out the answers well you also get a bit of fame and a following that will whisper you questions. I have seen it in guild a lot.....you get that one guy that does everything for the guild super helpful and then a few months he gets mad because he feels he put in so much and is not getting back what he feels he should.

Basically you have to be careful not to be taken advantage of and take time off of being the nice guy

Yah, that's a very valid point, I've seen it before and once about made the same mistake. Fortunately I've grown up a lot from then...well, at least as much as a 3'3" humanoid can 'grow' up. :)

A reminder never hurts, though. As for the whispered questions...yah...had a couple five of those already lol. My solution, to this point, is to maintain many active servers. "A wizard for every server", words to live by! :p

[epochofcrepuscule]

The people who say "here is where I live" aren't courageous. They do so believing nothing will happen to them.

And I really don't think it takes guts to be selfish or self-absorbed.


OR, take this into consideration. Some people say it because they live on a couple acres of private property. The have a few dogs that stay outside all year round. Every one of those dogs has wolf blood. So the chances of you coming up on them silently is slim to none, and I (or whomever) will have my rifle pointed at you long before you thought of a way to silent the dogs -light sleeper.

Just a suggestion :)


Also, whomever said soloing wasnt big in past mmos.

Everquest....
A good bard could solo just about everything.

Necromancers, soloed the first 20-30 lvls because they could. Soloed to cap because they had to.

Druids soloed everything to.

Giant farming anyone? (any evercrack player knows what im talking about)

[Ilseroth]

Hi, I'm new to the DDO forums (only semi-new to the game, been playing it off and on for a while, never got to a very high level though) and saw this and just thought I'd say, it ain't just online anymore.

Kids no longer distinguish offline behaviour and online behaviour as needing to be different, and by that I do not mean that they are polite online now. I work at an Arcade/Lazertag place and I can tell you now every time I hear these words when some kid is about to go into lazertag I know exactly who to be watching to warn about the rules/kick out:
"Its just like Halo!!"
or nowadays
"Woo, just like Call of Duty!"
Believe me when I say that all the internet ****ery that you say "they wouldn't do in real life" they do...

So glad there hasn't been any t-bagging... yet

[Missing_Minds]

So do microwaves, how many here used to stare into the older models watching food cook? (>^^)/

Mom never let me do that actually.

[azrael4h]

I don't talk to random strangers on the street either. And in my experience the people who have said "hi" to me who were not in my guild/group either wanted something (beggers) or wanted to see if I was really a girl so they could hit on me.

I don't know how many times I've been on my Cleric, and had someone run up to me and say "You're hot!!"

I tell them I modeled the character after an old girlfriend. They leave me alone.

Some people get burned out on getting random tells all the time. I usually get several party invites when I log onto my Cleric, before I even get started anywhere. Once I'm in a party with some guildies, I get tells with people trying to convince me to leave my guild and go party with them. I also get tells with people trying to get me to drop my guild and join theirs.

Thats ignoring the ones who run up and ask if I'll give them my Holy Longsword, or whatever other weapon I may be carrying around openly. Or asking if I'll give them some plat, or potions, or spell scrolls or so on.

[GhoulsTouch]

Over the years of playing online games I noticed a steep decline in positive teamwork and communication between the player base not only in DDO but in all MMOs.

I blame commercialism and WOW because it made MMO's open to a detested mainstream who would never play a rpg ever and who are competitive to a fault.

[anttoni11]

Reason that drives to Anti-Social behaviour is that u have an option to interract with idiots or make it simple to do your own, my most dyeings goes with handhold of groups and usually do lot more better with hireling.
Reason behind of this is maybe there is lot more morans or kids playing, and these are 2 groups i a mnot willing to waste time/repair bill.
Soloing or with hireling ill die 1/20 quest and in groups 5/10 so i wonder the point.... and yes i have keep diary.
Next is scaling of damage i rather take 5 damage a hit that hireling heals as soloing than 50% group doing sht or mismiss miss mobs and give me 20 damage instead besauce groupsize.

[Ggcpres]

theres not so much an issue with anti-social behavior in DDO but people are more distant. typically we team up, do some stuff, and then leave our separate ways.

granted i haven't hit the high levels or been in a massive super guild but still, i've yet to make any friends on DDO (and by friend i mean someone who i would let crash at my house without worrying about my stuff/life)

i've been playing DDO for about 3-4 months, back in both my WoW and GW days I had at least one friend.

[Ggcpres]

Reason that drives to Anti-Social behaviour is that u have an option to interract with idiots or make it simple to do your own, my most dyeings goes with handhold of groups and usually do lot more better with hireling.
Reason behind of this is maybe there is lot more morans or kids playing, and these are 2 groups i a mnot willing to waste time/repair bill.
Soloing or with hireling ill die 1/20 quest and in groups 5/10 so i wonder the point.... and yes i have keep diary.
Next is scaling of damage i rather take 5 damage a hit that hireling heals as soloing than 50% group doing sht or mismiss miss mobs and give me 20 damage instead besauce groupsize.

Also, how in the world can you insult someone's intellect and misspell the words MORON, DYING, BECAUSE, and NOT.

[anttoni11]

I have been like 1o guils and most talk goes log in log out, most of the players are -6 hours to mine so no matter what guild i am in same end result, and grouping just bring more difficult to finish quests than with hirelings.
1 no need to wait group 1000 years is compensating it may take longer to solo and fail% of group that u dont know is way bigger than without it.

[phillymiket]

Over the years of playing online games I noticed a steep decline in positive teamwork and communication between the player base not only in DDO but in all MMOs.

Is it the social deterioration of today's kids to blame or the internet's deviant subculture?

It is sad when you can't just say "Hi" to someone without getting the all annoying "?" in response.

What are your thoughts based on your experiences?

I blame reality shows :D

But seriously, it seems like people think that "drama" and "in your face" is the way you should act.

It takes two seconds to say "please" and "thank you".
If someone says hello you return the gesture.

It boggles my mind that people are so angry at life (or something) that they can't at least try to spread a little joy in the world instead of spreading poison.

I had a guy send me all sorts of horrible, nasty tells. I was in a boss fight so could not respond till a little later.
Finally I send a tell back saying "Who IS this?"
I get a tell back saying "wrong guy"...no "whoops sorry" - nothing.
Were you raised in a barn? What's wrong with you that you don't apologize when you have wronged someone?
People seem to think they don't owe anyone anything anymore.
We all owe each other civility. It is basic to society.

Two days in a row I've grouped with this one guy and things have gone south from biting off more then we could chew.
Today was Delerium on hard after we did norm no problem with level 11-14's mostly level 12s
(some may find that easy - we struggled /shrug seems quite challenging to me - I did it with another group 2 days ago on hard and completed)
He feels the need to insult people to their face and blame everyone for the fail.
Why? What do you gain except to humiliate someone?
(By the way it turns out the insulter, after I MyDDOed him, had 134 HP, 24 AC, 0% fort and Korthos gear at level 12 :D)

I am going to keep saying "Hello" and "Good morning" even if the rest of the world is moving away from that stuff.
Better to fail at spreading light than succeed at spreading darkness.

Sorry for long post but this stuff bothers me to no end.

[Darwinnon]

Oh noes!

You mean a bunch of internet geeks and DDO nerds are lacking of social skills?

Why, that is preposterous - these are the most socially adept people you could imagine!

Why else hang around online and play games by way of an anonymous avatar night after night?!

O.o

[Xatasha]

Oh noes!

You mean a bunch of internet geeks and DDO nerds are lacking of social skills?

Why, that is preposterous - these are the most socially adept people you could imagine!

Why else hang around online and play games by way of an anonymous avatar night after night?!

O.o

Man you are really outdated if you think that. These days the range of people you find on the net is about the same as the range of people you would find at a mall or other social area.


You play games for fun

[Orratti]

I blame it all on the cleric hate.

[anttoni11]

Also, how in the world can you insult someone's intellect and misspell the words MORON, DYING, BECAUSE, and NOT.

Is it something to do with intellect, if i am not talking english as motherlanguage? if u think so i would call that a sertain movement on intellect line u figure the direction = )

[bvermeul]

Is it something to do with intellect, if i am not talking english as motherlanguage? if u think so i would call that a sertain movement on intellect line u figure the direction = )

It's quite easy to use a spelling checker... (although it wouldn't fix your grammatics). My mother language isn't English either, but at least I try ;)

[Darwinnon]

Man you are really outdated if you think that. These days the range of people you find on the net is about the same as the range of people you would find at a mall or other social area.


You play games for fun

At least make an EFFORT to try to recognize humor & tongue in cheek when you see it, please.

Or do I REALLY have to add a bunch of smileys for it to be obvious?! *rolls eyes*


Oh, and by the way have you even BEEN to a mall recently and seen all the antisocial, malladjusted (pun) surly and obnoxious people who run around there?! =)