Evasion Paladin Number 9001

[xAlistairx]

Alright, I realize there are a lot of evasion paladin builds out there. I decided to make mine an intimitank bastard sword user due to the glancing blows. I tried to look at other paladin intimitank builds and other evasion paladin builds, but I'm not sure if my AC is high enough, or my health, or what, so I thought I'd post it here and see if it would be a good build. Thanks for helping!


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 324
Spell Points: 245
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 19
Will: 17

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 19
Dexterity 13 16
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 9 9
Charisma 14 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 5 11
Bluff 2 3
Concentration 2 5
Diplomacy 2 3
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 6 7
Heal -1 -1
Hide 5 7
Intimidate 6 28
Jump 6 8
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 5 7
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 2
Search 2 4
Spot 3 5
Swim 6 12
Tumble 5 7
Use Magic Device 6 26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Tower Shield Proficiency
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I


Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II


Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost III


Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II

[unbongwah]

Drow seems like an odd choice for this build, since you didn't go for TWF w/rapiers like most drow paladins. You don't even fully exploit their CHA bonus. Plus you have to waste two feats on bastard sword & tower shield proficiency. I would think dwarf would be a better choice: more HPs, higher max AC (thru dwarf Armor Mastery), better DPS from DAxes (while tanking) & greataxes (while DPSing), saves a feat.

I also think some of your feats are questionable. I believe any tank-y build should have Power Attack & Combat Expertise, at the very least, so you can switch between DPS & AC mode.

[xAlistairx]

Drow seems like an odd choice for this build, since you didn't go for TWF w/rapiers like most drow paladins. You don't even fully exploit their CHA bonus. Plus you have to waste two feats on bastard sword & tower shield proficiency. I would think dwarf would be a better choice: more HPs, higher max AC (thru dwarf Armor Mastery), better DPS from DAxes (while tanking) & greataxes (while DPSing), saves a feat.

I also think some of your feats are questionable. I believe any tank-y build should have Power Attack & Combat Expertise, at the very least, so you can switch between DPS & AC mode.

I picked drow because I don't have 32 point builds and it gave three bonuses to things I needed. However, the dwarven higher max ac isn't really right. I'd have to use light armor anyways, for the dex bonus, but mainly for evasion. Good point about dwarven axes saving a feat, but I think I'll keep this drow for personal preference/flavor and since I lack 32 point builds.

I don't know why I didn't pick power attack. I think I ran out of feats or something.

Now, as far as combat expertise there's a good reason I didn't pick that. I believe it doesn't stack with the paladin defensive stance granted from DoS. Since I'd need tower shields anyways, I figured I'd use the generic Defensive Fighting until level 7. It saves me a feat. Someone tell me if this is an extremely bad choice.

[unbongwah]

The pally tank AC calculations I have seen include both DoS stance and CE; so either they stack or the builds I've looked at are wrong.

[herzkos]

pally DoS and combat exp do indeed stack, or at least they did last time i logged into my pally.

[KKDragonLord]

Im not sure this is really over 9000...

[xAlistairx]

pally DoS and combat exp do indeed stack, or at least they did last time i logged into my pally.

They DO!? Are you sure? That kind of changes everything if they do. I thought they didn't since almost nothing stacks in this game (plus I think I read it somewhere), and figured why get it at the same level I'm getting my stance...


Im not sure this is really over 9000...

I'm glad you got the joke.

But aside from the combat expertise and stance stacking, how's the build?

[KKDragonLord]

I'm glad you got the joke.

But aside from the combat expertise and stance stacking, how's the build?

I don't do AC builds...
for now at least. lets wait for some better peeps to comment

[dragons1ayer74]

What is the purpose for those starting stats.....

On a drow why not something like?
STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 8
CHA: 17

or

STR: 16
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 16

or

STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 18

If you are really only ever going weapon and shield style Dex should be a 10 and put the 2 extra build points into CHA or STR or INT to some day get CE.

[KKDragonLord]

What is the purpose for those starting stats.....

On a drow why not something like?
STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 8
CHA: 17

or

STR: 16
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 16

or

STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 18

If you are really only ever going weapon and shield style Dex should be a 10 and put the 2 extra build points into CHA or STR or INT to some day get CE.

You can save a lot of points by skipping the last tier of Divine might.
A +2 tome is easy.

IMO dont go higher than 16 Cha
dont pay extra for 14 Con
Do have at least 11 Int (CE is kinda important for AC)
you might want to be able to get 24 dex to max your dex AC on a mithral BP with either the daggertooth belt or an epic blue slot... 28 if you have both (you'd have to start with minimum of 14 then).
...
how about:

Str 17
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 11
Wis 8
Cha 16

[xAlistairx]

What is the purpose for those starting stats.....

On a drow why not something like?
STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 8
CHA: 17

or

STR: 16
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 16

or

STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 18

If you are really only ever going weapon and shield style Dex should be a 10 and put the 2 extra build points into CHA or STR or INT to some day get CE.

I'm not going to lower intelligence because I'm putting as many points as possible into intimidate and umd.

A Mithral Tower Shield will allow me to keep most of my dex bonus. Plus dex affects my reflex score. This is an evasion paladin.

EDIT: Sorry was typing when you posted Dragonlord. What's wrong with my current stat spread? I feel 14 constitution is warranted because I want to have high enough HP to not be easily killed after I intimidate.

[KKDragonLord]

I'm not going to lower intelligence because I'm putting as many points as possible into intimidate and umd.

A Mithral Tower Shield will allow me to keep most of my dex bonus. Plus dex affects my reflex score. This is an evasion paladin.

You mean charisma. The higher stat points are hardly cost effective, a +1 to the skill isn't worth that much.

If you didnt see i suggested you to to go with either 12 dex or 14 dex for you to be able to get to 24-28 with +3exceptional dex, +7 dex item, +2 or +4 tome. Thats plenty enough.

Max dex of mithal Tower Shield is +6, of Mithral BP is +9.

The problem is that you are suffering from a lot of MAD (multiple stat dependancy) and skipping on STR is not good on a pally.

[xAlistairx]

You mean charisma. The higher stat points are hardly cost effective, a +1 to the skill isn't worth that much.

If you didnt see i suggested you to to go with either 12 dex or 14 dex for you to be able to get to 24-28 with +3exceptional dex, +7 dex item, +2 or +4 tome. Thats plenty enough.

Max dex of mithal Tower Shield is +6, of Mithral BP is +9.

No, I know intelligence doesn't affect those stats. But with my current intelligence I get 4 skill points per level which is enough for the two into intimidate and the two into umd.

Hmm interesting development. The way I have it set up with 16 dex at the end and a +6 dex item, I will end up with exactly +6. I guess I could lower it by 2 points at the start and just eat a +2 tomb for when that dex bonus will be fully realized. Would that be better?

[dragons1ayer74]

Also as a drow you get 2 points of dex racial adjustment if you want them, cha effects a pladin in many ways and on a paladin will help all of your saves, plus your UMD and your Intimidate. Also if you spread your rouge levels out and only spend the points on UMD and Intimidate you will find that you can get away with a lower int.

[xAlistairx]

Also as a drow you get 2 points of dex racial adjustment if you want them, cha effects a pladin in many ways and on a paladin will help all of your saves, plus your UMD and your Intimidate. Also if you spread your rouge levels out and only spend the points on UMD and Intimidate you will find that you can get away with a lower int.

I took the 2 points.

I took the rogue level earlier on so I could get evasion quicker. The longer I go without taking the second level of rogue, the longer I'm just a paladin one level behind the others doing the same quests as me.

[KKDragonLord]

I took the 2 points.

I took the rogue level earlier on so I could get evasion quicker. The longer I go without taking the second level of rogue, the longer I'm just a paladin one level behind the others doing the same quests as me.

IF you really want to be an AC build you have to think of endgame equipment, not just stay stucked in a simple +6 dex world. I'm hoping you are at least aware that you will need a Mineral II greensteel with Heightened awareness IV. Check this thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=249178 for maximized AC.

If you dont maximize your skill points you will not be optimized.

Dont worry about stuff lower than 10, you will spend a lot more time capped looking for AC equipment than you will waiting to level in rogue.

AC builds are not easy.

[xAlistairx]

IF you really want to be an AC build you have to think of endgame equipment, not just stay stucked in a simple +6 dex world. I'm hoping you are at least aware that you will need a Mineral II greensteel with Heightened awareness IV. Check this thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=249178 for maximized AC.

If you dont maximize your skill points you will not be optimized.

Dont worry about stuff lower than 10, you will spend a lot more time capped looking for AC equipment than you will waiting to level in rogue.

AC builds are not easy.

Okay, I'm not getting what you're telling me to do. Take rogue later? My skill points are maxed.

[KKDragonLord]

Okay, I'm not getting what you're telling me to do. Take rogue later? My skill points are maxed.

It goes like this.

1 point of rogue skill increases intimidate and Umd by 1
2 points of paladin increase them by 1
With 12 Int
You start as a rogue with the maxed rank of 4

You level 8 times as paladin spending 2 points per lvl on intimidate (maxing it at 12 ranks) and 1 per level on UMD (increasing it to 8)

IF you take the next level as a rogue you will spend 1 point in Intimidate (Maxing it at 13 ranks) and 5 points in UMD (maxing it at 13) and you will have a surplus of 3 points you can't spend.

So instead you level 6 more times as a paladin bringing Intimidate to 18 ranks and UMD to 11 ranks.

Then you level as a rogue to 2rogue/14Pally, and this makes you able to spend 1 in intimidate and 8 in UMD, bringing Both to the Max of 19 ranks.

This way you dont waste skill points.

After that you would still be getting just 3 skill points though, and thats where a +2 tome comes in, making you have 4 points to spend as a Paladin.

If you get a +2 Int tome to eat at level 7 you can even level as a rogue at the next level and spend your surplus of 5 Rogue skill points in Balance, because from level onwards you will be maxing UMD and Intimidate every level as a paladin.

And if you got a +3 tome in the bank you can start with 11 Int and postpone your rogue level until after you ate that one.
.

[xAlistairx]

It goes like this.

1 point of rogue skill increases intimidate and Umd by 1
2 points of paladin increase them by 1
With 12 Int
You start as a rogue with the maxed rank of 4

You level 8 times as paladin spending 2 points per lvl on intimidate (maxing it at 12 ranks) and 1 per level on UMD (increasing it to 8)

IF you take the next level as a rogue you will spend 1 point in Intimidate (Maxing it at 13 ranks) and 5 points in UMD (maxing it at 13) and you will have a surplus of 3 points you can't spend.

So instead you level 6 more times as a paladin bringing Intimidate to 18 ranks and UMD to 11 ranks.

Then you level as a rogue to 2rogue/14Pally, and this makes you able to spend 1 in intimidate and 8 in UMD, bringing Both to the Max of 19 ranks.

This way you dont waste skill points.

After that you would still be getting just 3 skill points though, and thats where a +2 tome comes in, making you have 4 points to spend as a Paladin.

If you get a +2 Int tome to eat at level 7 you can even level as a rogue at the next level and spend your surplus of 5 Rogue skill points in Balance, because from level onwards you will be maxing UMD and Intimidate every level as a paladin.

And if you got a +3 tome in the bank you can start with 11 Int and postpone your rogue level until after you ate that one.
.

What would that change from my current build? Allowing me to put those two points elsewhere?

[dragons1ayer74]

You can save a lot of points by skipping the last tier of Divine might.
...
how about:

Str 17
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 11
Wis 8
Cha 16


I think this would be fairly nice starting stats it would allow for a +1 tome for Int early for the 4 skill points per level and someday getting the +2 Int to allow for Combat Expertise, the only thing I don't like about it is a 12 for CON which I guess end game still allows for 499 hit points (with gear and 1 toughness) on a character with good self healing capabilities and decent AC and evasion, it should be more than ok.

If the person was confident about long term playing (the requirement for some day knowing they will have +3 tomes) and really building with end game in mind they could start similar stats but start with one point less strength. The 3 extra build points could go numerous places - 15 Dex for ability to spec to dual wield if desired or Cha 17 ability to some day get end tier of divine might plus one more build point left over for Dex, Con or Int.


Also even if you go rouge one for the huge number of extra other skill points rouge 2 would not come until at very earliest level 8. (Rouge 1, Paladin 6 - next level Rouge)

[dragons1ayer74]

Also with lesser reincarnation base stats are less important than they once where. Making a few mistakes off the start can now be fixed later on.

Lastly if you are thinking end end game you are also possible thinking a few rounds of true reincarnation and building from a 32 point drow base which again would be quite diffrent.

Enjoy the jorney.

[GhoulsTouch]

Might as well go Intelligence 14 for skillpoints and combat expertise to boost AC. Strength Con and Intelligence I think should be your main stats with charisma pulling fourth.

If you are going for AC then put in 6 fighter and forget about the third tier of your prestige. You get extra feats and can amp up AC with Fighter Armor masteries and Tower sheild proficiency.

You'd toggle combat expertise and power attack off and on depending on whether you are intimidating with tower sheild or when you drop the sheild to do some damage of your own with power attack.

[KKDragonLord]

Agreed with dragonslayer and yeah... i'll concede there is only so much you can do with 28pts.

Best Armor right now is Epic Kundarak Delving Suit

11armor bonus +9 dex bonus to a total of +20 AC
For that you will need 28 Dex.

With daggertooth belt, 32 dex: to 22AC
with chaosgarde= +24AC

An Epic Large shied with +7 enhancement. has no dex limit and is equal to a +5 mithral tower shield. (which is the best until a +7 Mithral Tower shields comes along allowing you to lower your dex to 28)

But the Real Best AC is :
Icy Raiments ads 4 dodge, and a +8 armor bracer to a total of 12.

To get past the Epic KDS you would need to max Dex at 20 a +4 tome a +7 dex item and a +3exceptional Dex to a total of 3, add the abbot tome and a Human enhancement it goes to 34, guild bonuses could increase it to 36. A real full AC build would put Dex level ups to get to 40 at least and 2 drow enhancements would get you to 42.

with a 42 dex you get +16 dex ac and +12 it goes up to 28 which is 4 points better than EKDS +chaosgarde +daggertooth belt, but it is extremely costly.

If you want your AC to mean anything in epic, it needs to be really high and if you want to tank bosses on Epic it has to be the highest possible (if even that)

All things considered ill change my suggestion to:

16 Str
15 Dex
12 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
15 Cha

This saves precious enhancement points and you would only need +3 tomes for Dex and Cha, dont forget to eat a +2 Int tome at lvl7

After you TR, an Epic Mithral Tower shield will probably be available so you can lower dex to 13 or 12.

Im telling you man, AC build is really hard

[xAlistairx]

I'm not looking for the ultimate AC build. I'm looking for a serviceable evasion paladin who can intimitank and be useful at endgame and up to that point. I don't want to sacrifice too much to get the highest ac obtainable. I want high enough ac/hp to be able to withstand enemies' hits and to be useful for raids and such, but not to the point I start sucking in everything BUT ac.

[KKDragonLord]

I'm not looking for the ultimate AC build. I'm looking for a serviceable evasion paladin who can intimitank and be useful at endgame and up to that point. I don't want to sacrifice too much to get the highest ac obtainable. I want high enough ac/hp to be able to withstand enemies' hits and to be useful for raids and such, but not to the point I start sucking in everything BUT ac.

I didn't suggest you should be a Full AC build, thats why i gave that reasonable Stat distribution. I merely pointed out what a Real AC build is like.

But Epic is the current endgame, so i guess you mean the pre-endgame content.

Well, then you need to find out what raids you will want to tank if its just Shroud and VoD, or ToD as well.

What kind of AC is worth a **** in those in at least the Hard setting (where tomes drop).

And try to figure out if you can get there being half-commited to AC.

Because if not the simple fact that you will be using a shield makes your DPS go down too much to be worth it.


PS: Enhancements don't count towards Divine Might prerequisites, only tomes. (edit: nvm, i see you don't care that much for damage anyway)

[xAlistairx]

I'm not half-commited to AC. I'm fully committed to survival and being useful in a group. Survival isn't only AC. It's also my high saves, my lay-on-hands and healing spells, my decent health, AND my AC. All those considered, I think I'm pretty survivable at endgame without needing the highest AC ever. If you only have AC without good damage or anything else, I doubt you'll find yourself very useful. Now I don't know this for sure since I've never done an epic or raid, or came close to level 20, but it's just my assumption. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[KKDragonLord]

I'm not half-commited to AC. I'm fully committed to survival and being useful in a group. Survival isn't only AC. It's also my high saves, my lay-on-hands and healing spells, my decent health, AND my AC. All those considered, I think I'm pretty survivable at endgame without needing the highest AC ever. If you only have AC without good damage or anything else, I doubt you'll find yourself very useful. Now I don't know this for sure since I've never done an epic or raid, or came close to level 20, but it's just my assumption. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Well yeah thats what im trying to help you with.

you must be the most Cost effective possible.

You need to make some compromises.

Dont bother with the two later tiers of the Toughness enhancemnts, they are too costly, incresase that Divine Might to tier 3 at least, or else dont even take it.

There are things more important than 20 extra hit points, 14 Con is a great number for every character except for Elves and Drow, especially in a MAD inducing class build.
.

[xAlistairx]

Alright, what enhancements should I take in the place of that?

What is my build missing?

[Seamonkeysix]

Imho, Bastard Sword is a total waste. You miss out on all the perks to rapier or shortsword that a drow get. My two cents would be to up your dexterity to 14. Take 1 point as a level up and a +2 tome and you get the TWF chain and can do respectable DPS with the two rapiers + zeal.

That being said, you may want to consider 2 monk instead of 2 rogue. Yes, you lose skill points and intimidate as a class skill, but you gain 2 feats. Upping your dexterity is going to help your armor class and reflex saves, which is very needed for evasion (why have it if you fail all the time due to low dex?)

If you are set on going bastard sword, I would really think about the 14 Pally/4 fighter/2 rogue split. That will get you the feats you need to go bastard sword and tower shield, and also open up some of the fighter enhancements (i.e. strength) that will help a bit with your DPS. By retaining 14 pally, you still get holy sword and zeal. Consider a variant of this build:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=126290&highlight=bruttus

I really think you will be disappointed with a 18/2 pally rogue split using bastard swords...for what my opinion is worth.

[xAlistairx]

Imho, Bastard Sword is a total waste. You miss out on all the perks to rapier or shortsword that a drow get. My two cents would be to up your dexterity to 14. Take 1 point as a level up and a +2 tome and you get the TWF chain and can do respectable DPS with the two rapiers + zeal.

That being said, you may want to consider 2 monk instead of 2 rogue. Yes, you lose skill points and intimidate as a class skill, but you gain 2 feats.

If you are set on going bastard sword, I would really think about the 14 Pally/4 fighter/2 rogue split. That will get you the feats you need to go bastard sword and tower shield, and also open up some of the fighter enhancements (i.e. strength) that will help a bit with your DPS. By retaining 14 pally, you still get holy sword and zeal.

I really think you will be disappointed with a 18/2 pally rogue split using bastard swords...for what my opinion is worth.

1. You do have a point. But I like bastard swords and the fact that they get glancing blows. Every drow uses rapiers.
2. Losing intimidate as a class skill is not a minor thing. It's extremely major since I'll never be able to intimidate anything.
3. I would lose my third DoS. That's a pretty big deal.
4. Well thank you for the recommendations.

[Seamonkeysix]

1. You do have a point. But I like bastard swords and the fact that they get glancing blows. Every drow uses rapiers.
2. Losing intimidate as a class skill is not a minor thing. It's extremely major since I'll never be able to intimidate anything.
3. I would lose my third DoS. That's a pretty big deal.
4. Well thank you for the recommendations.

1. I can appreciate the idea of being different. Nobody wants a cookie cutter toon. :D

2. I actually respec'd my 18 pally/ 2 rogue for some of the reasons we are looking at. The difference in my intimidate as a rogue splash vs a monk splash just wasn't worth losing 2 feats. I couldn't do elite (much less epic) intimidate as it was, so might as well contribute more to party success and survivability (and I can still intimidate trash).

3. 3rd tier DoS is a big deal. I was just trying to think of a way you could somewhat have your cake and eat it too. I still think that overall, to keep bastard sword in your build, you should look at 18/2 pally/monk.

4. You're welcome. I <3 paladin builds. ;)

[KKDragonLord]

Alright, what enhancements should I take in the place of that?

What is my build missing?

well, for starters, AC is Entirely dependent on Equipment, so i would begin with a list of the best things you can get for the character on a reasonable time frame.

you need the information of how much AC is good enough for the content you plan to run at to know how much you should invest into that with your build.

without that information you will most likely invest heavily on this character and end up unsatisfied.

[xAlistairx]

well, for starters, AC is Entirely dependent on Equipment, so i would begin with a list of the best things you can get for the character on a reasonable time frame.

you need the information of how much AC is good enough for the content you plan to run at to know how much you should invest into that with your build.

without that information you will most likely invest heavily on this character and end up unsatisfied.

Hmm. I don't know very much about high-level at all. I don't mind doing quests over and over again, but not ridiculously so. Let me put it this way: I'll spend maybe 2 or 3 hours a day grinding for gear. Depends on the length of the quest and quality of the reward, but probably around there if it's absolutely necessary to the build.


1. I can appreciate the idea of being different. Nobody wants a cookie cutter toon. :D

2. I actually respec'd my 18 pally/ 2 rogue for some of the reasons we are looking at. The difference in my intimidate as a rogue splash vs a monk splash just wasn't worth losing 2 feats. I couldn't do elite (much less epic) intimidate as it was, so might as well contribute more to party success and survivability (and I can still intimidate trash).

3. 3rd tier DoS is a big deal. I was just trying to think of a way you could somewhat have your cake and eat it too. I still think that overall, to keep bastard sword in your build, you should look at 18/2 pally/monk.

4. You're welcome. I <3 paladin builds. ;)

2. You do bring up a good point. Even with max intimidate I might not be able to get some mobs. When that starts happening, I'll consider the two monk.

4. Me too. :D

[HallowedOne]

IMHO:

1) Take human. The extra feats and +healing amp enhancements are a life saver.

2) BSword is a waste on a pally tank. You'd need a lot of feats and proper enhancements to make it worthwhile and pallies don't have 'em both to spare.

3) I'd Power Attack, Khopesh, Extend Spell feats. +skill feats is a waste IMO, considereing the limited number of feats you have, and Force of Personality adds nothing when you have +30 will save :p

4) Take Divine Sacrifice II, Exalted Smite III, Divine Righteouness I. Again, pallies have a hard time getting Inti as high as a Fighter can, unless they have the equipment, so tanking big bosses on higher dificulties will depend upon Hate.

FYI, Sully on normal needs about 55 inti to get him 100%. Without any feats and enhancements, a pally would need at Shroud +5 cha item at least to get it.

5) If you are really serious about pally AC tank, be ready o spend hours farming the stuff you need for it :p

6) And if you ever are even more serious about it, consider LR'ing to make a self healing tank once you get the proper equipments. I built a variant of Junts tank, search for his build to get the idea.

[KKDragonLord]

6) And if you ever are even more serious about it, consider LR'ing.

Lol rolling? :p

[tkaefa]

Why not go Dex based with the icy raiment and Ac bracers. I have a 18 pally 2 monk that has weapon finesse, uses rapiers, gets enhancement damage to rapiers, Divine might III, gets the wis bonus to AC of the monk, has evasion with amazing saves (dex based plus cha bonus) Even taking the rogue lvls for intimidate I would go dex based. Just start with 14 strength and use all the drow advantages for dex.

[Bloodhaven]

This thread has allot of great info in it. Passing out +1's as I read ;)

[xAlistairx]

IMHO:

1) Take human. The extra feats and +healing amp enhancements are a life saver.

2) BSword is a waste on a pally tank. You'd need a lot of feats and proper enhancements to make it worthwhile and pallies don't have 'em both to spare.

3) I'd Power Attack, Khopesh, Extend Spell feats. +skill feats is a waste IMO, considereing the limited number of feats you have, and Force of Personality adds nothing when you have +30 will save :p

4) Take Divine Sacrifice II, Exalted Smite III, Divine Righteouness I. Again, pallies have a hard time getting Inti as high as a Fighter can, unless they have the equipment, so tanking big bosses on higher dificulties will depend upon Hate.

FYI, Sully on normal needs about 55 inti to get him 100%. Without any feats and enhancements, a pally would need at Shroud +5 cha item at least to get it.

5) If you are really serious about pally AC tank, be ready o spend hours farming the stuff you need for it :p

6) And if you ever are even more serious about it, consider LR'ing to make a self healing tank once you get the proper equipments. I built a variant of Junts tank, search for his build to get the idea.

1) Even knowing I don't have 32 point builds?

2) Look, I think I'm sticking with bastard sword. I want to use it. It might not be the most min/max'd weapon ever, but I just like it.

3) Taking power attack might be a good idea. I don't want to use khopeshes. Extend spell I may also consider, but less than power attack. Skill focus seems less useful than some other things, admittedly. I think I might replace the skill focus and maybe (maybe) force of personality with two-handed fighting or power attack. I guess if my will save is high enough, that's cool. I'm not sure what number is good for this stuff since I've never been close to end game.

4) I would, but what enhancements should I give up in return?

5) As long as I don't spend a week on one armor piece, I think I'll be fine.

6) What? Do what?


Why not go Dex based with the icy raiment and Ac bracers. I have a 18 pally 2 monk that has weapon finesse, uses rapiers, gets enhancement damage to rapiers, Divine might III, gets the wis bonus to AC of the monk, has evasion with amazing saves (dex based plus cha bonus) Even taking the rogue lvls for intimidate I would go dex based. Just start with 14 strength and use all the drow advantages for dex.

This is good advice. If I didn't specifically want to use bastard swords, I'd do that. And I don't mean any sarcasm, I really would do that if I wasn't set on using bastard swords. I just like the new glancing blows. I've always liked bastard swords, and this new ability of theirs makes using them more useful and less "why not use a khopesh?"


This thread has allot of great info in it. Passing out +1's as I read ;)

Glad I could kind of be of use. By making it. ;)

[HallowedOne]

1) Even knowing I don't have 32 point builds?

The thing is that Drows have 1 less feat and you want to use an exotic weapon, which would in turn make you have 1 less feat to spend on a feat starved build.

Also, consider that humans don't get the -2 to con, which makes you spend more points to rise until 14. I think you can also start with lower dex, about 10, and int, 12 maybe. But you'd have to take in account +2 tomes...



2) Look, I think I'm sticking with bastard sword. I want to use it. It might not be the most min/max'd weapon ever, but I just like it.

As you wish :)




3) Taking power attack might be a good idea. I don't want to use khopeshes. Extend spell I may also consider, but less than power attack. Skill focus seems less useful than some other things, admittedly. I think I might replace the skill focus and maybe (maybe) force of personality with two-handed fighting or power attack. I guess if my will save is high enough, that's cool. I'm not sure what number is good for this stuff since I've never been close to end game.

Consider dearly, especially if you want to take better use of glancing blows.




4) I would, but what enhancements should I give up in return?

Devotion line is not useful, unless you have the equipment for a self healing build

Armor Boost is also not needed, it lasts only 20 seconds and it will wear off fast when u are tasked with tanking a big bad boss.

Energy of Templar is also not needed, you can sleep with a +sp item, cast long term buffs, and you'll have enough sp to cast about 3 extended zeal + favor. More than enough most of the times.

People like + cha enhancements, but my personal thought is that they are too expensive for litte benefit. 6 AP for +1 to saves and +2 attack on smites? IDK, doesn't seem much of a good tradeoff for me.

Depending on the dex bnus you can achieve, you an also take off the +dex enhancements. I think you need +7 from dex to fill out the dex bonus of a DT light armor. Kinda hard to achieve that, and you can live well without it most of the times.




5) As long as I don't spend a week on one armor piece, I think I'll be fine.

Sorry to inform you but...

On the bright side, once ready it is one of the most fun builds to play. :)



6) What? Do what?

Junt's self-healing build (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=175058)
Just don't try to make it from scratch, get the proper equipments first, otherwise you'll get more frustration than happiness.

[k1ngp1n]

This is good advice. If I didn't specifically want to use bastard swords, I'd do that. And I don't mean any sarcasm, I really would do that if I wasn't set on using bastard swords. I just like the new glancing blows. I've always liked bastard swords, and this new ability of theirs makes using them more useful and less "why not use a khopesh?"

Too bad you won't be getting too many glancing blows then, eh?


Bastard Swords and Dwarven Waraxes are now as if they were two handed weapons for the purposes of Glancing Blows when they are the only weapon wielded by a proficient user. (Weapon and Shield or Single Weapon styles, but not when Dual Wielding.) Feats or enhancements that affect Glancing Blows (such as the Two Handed Fighting chain, or Great Weapon Aptitude) will also modify these weapons. They are still treated as one handed weapons for all other purposes, such as strength bonus to damage.

Text is bold for emphasis.

[Srozbun]

5) As long as I don't spend a week on one armor piece, I think I'll be fine.


If you get one of your critical armor pieces in a week consider yourself extremely lucky. Once you find yourself grinding for your gear it's not just how much grinding you can take but it's also ransack timers and raid timers. Consider some of the gear an AC tank needs to hit a meaningful AC.

Chattering ring - titan raid which is not one of the often run raids, can run once every 3 days for a very rare drop
Icy Raiment - groups occasionally farm this but I don't see them too often. Another rare drop and you can farm this chest 8 times every 7 days. I pulled one on my 6th chest or so? Some people go 20+ chests without pulling.
Perfect AC DT armor - not even gonna start on this. If you are blessed from above MAYBE you get your perfect sovereign rune in less than 3 runs. Otherwise be prepared to grind endlessly for months to get this.
Levicks/Lorricks Shield - I've run 40+ Hoxs and have not pulled either one yet. My 20th I saw the shield but opted for the bracers instead. Again, you can only run this once every 3 days.
Tier 3 GS cloak for +6 to your intim - the large ingredients are one story, the shards are another. May take you 20 runs may take less, or may take longer. Shroud is more farmable than other raids but still you are at the mercy of ransack/raid timers.

A successful AC/intim tank takes months to gear to the point where they can effectively tank a raid with a roll of a one. Not trying to discourage you but be prepared for lots of grinding, and lots of time playing the role of a subpar dps until you can properly gear yourself out. As stated by others in this thread, AC tanks are a big investment and hard to make effective.

[xAlistairx]

Okay, I get the whole "months of looting" thing for armor. That's cool, I understand. The fact that you can't do it more than once every x y's makes it even better. The problem is, if it stops being fun, then I stop wanting to do it. I'd rather be a decently equipped intimitank doing what quests I want and having fun than be a bored intimitank with the best armor repeating quests over and over. After all, ideal gear is ideal, but not necessarily a necessity. I don't have to be the best tank ever. I don't aim to be. I aim to have fun.

[jeremyt]

I think the point folks are trying to make (repeatedly) is you cannot function as a subpar intimitank. You either have the Ac to tank or you dont. You either have the intim rank to intim or you dont. Period. And as stated, your build has neither. And will continue to have neither for months and months and months (and maybe more months) of gear grinding. You cannot NOT grind and make a functional intimtank. Its exactly like what folks have been listing, the build is VERY hard to gear. and you NEED the gear to function. As in, this should not/can not be a functional first build. You need to gather gear for it, then LR or TR into it, or have an alt feeding you non-bound gear/tomes at the VERY least.

Understand that this is bar none, the hardest build to gear and make effective. You stated plainly you do not like to grind. This is THE ***THE*** grind for gear build. And in the end, your dead set on using bastard swords, while not having even the most basic resources to support it (32 point builds are unlocked with 1750 favor, you can do this with minimal effort with a starter character). If your serious about doing this, create a favor gathering character, and get favor/start the gear gathering for your main build. OR buy 32 point builds, start your human bastard sword and board paladin and realize your going to have to work harder than most (if not all) grinding for gear to not have a character thats a ball of subpar suck.

After all is gathered and your functional, tis a great build (just not in epic content)