Is a Monk18/Fighter1/Rogue1 any good ?

[Warwolf42]

New to Monks so please point out the faults with this Halfling Ninja Spy Dragonmarked build.

Design goals:
1- Mostly solo and self reliant hence the dragonmarks.
2- To fit Stunning fists in, I had to take a level of Figther and since 19 Monk didn't look that good I splashed 1 Rogue.
3- Rogue skills only taken with the extra rogue skill points for the beginning levels, not intended to be used mid to high. But UMD was maxed

Max skills in Balance, Concentration and UMD. Some points in Spot.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Halfling Female
(1 Fighter / 18 Monk / 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 292
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 14/14/19/24
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 20
Will: 19

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength........12 / 14 / 14
Dexterity........17 / 20 / 22
Constitution....14 / 16 / 16
Intelligence.....10 / 12 / 12
Wisdom..........16 / 22 / 24
Charisma..........8 / 10 / 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance...............7 / 29 / 29
Concentration.......2 / 26 / 26
Disable Device......4 / 5 / 5
Hide....................7 / 10 / 14
Jump...................1 / 2 / 6
Move Silently........7 / 10 / 12
Open Lock............7 / 10 / 10
Search.................3 / 4 / 4
Spot....................7 / 18 / 18
Tumble.................4 / 7 / 9
Use Magic Device...3 / 23 / 23

Feats:

Level 1 (Rogue) Least Dragonmark of Healing
Level 2 (Monk) (MB) Toughness
Level 3 (Monk) Weapon Finesse (MB) Two Weapon Fighting
Level 4 (Monk) (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Level 6 (Monk) Stunning Fist
Level 7 (Monk) (MB) Dodge
Level 9 (Monk) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
Level 11 (Fighter) (FB) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 12 (Monk) Greater Dragonmark of Healing
Level 15 (Monk) Improved Critical: Blludgeoning Weapons
Level 18 (Monk) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Enhancement:

Rogue Haste Boost I
Extra Dragonmark Use III
Halfling Dexterity II
Halfling Cunning II
Halfling Guile II
Way of the Clever Monkey III
Monk Ninja Spy II
Touch of Death
Winter's Touch
Static Charge
Porous Soul
All-Consuming Flame
Monk Improved Recovery II
Unbalancing Strike
Fists of Iron
Adept of Wind
Master of Thunder
Grandmaster of Storms
Adept of Rock
Adept of Flame
Monk Jump II
Monk Tumble II
Monk Wisdom II
Fighter Toughness I
Racial Toughness II


I went with the Enhancements I thought were best, please let me know of any glaring omissions.

Thank you

[DrylondS]

Halfling is an awesome monk race, so your choice isn't a problem...but something to think about.

If you are wanting healing ability for solo/self-reliant play, Wholeness of Body is a pretty **** good ability on its own right, especially when coupled with Ninja Spy's shadow fade. I have seen wholeness of body tick for almost 50 on a high healing amp build with good wisdom.

Therefore....if you find yourself slammed for APs and feats, you might want to take a look at human as a potential option. You lose a bit of sneak attack damage, but if you are soloing that doesn't matter. With WoB and SF, you really don't need halfling dragonmarks to keep yourself alive.

That being said, the build looks pretty good to me, and I don't think it would be a bad choice if you decided to go with it as-is.

[xanvar]

Halfling is an awesome monk race, so your choice isn't a problem...but something to think about.

If you are wanting healing ability for solo/self-reliant play, Wholeness of Body is a pretty **** good ability on its own right, especially when coupled with Ninja Spy's shadow fade. I have seen wholeness of body tick for almost 50 on a high healing amp build with good wisdom.

Therefore....if you find yourself slammed for APs and feats, you might want to take a look at human as a potential option. You lose a bit of sneak attack damage, but if you are soloing that doesn't matter. With WoB and SF, you really don't need halfling dragonmarks to keep yourself alive.

That being said, the build looks pretty good to me, and I don't think it would be a bad choice if you decided to go with it as-is.

Good point by this poster. I would also like to add that if you go human you can stay pure Monk and still have some good healing with Wholeness of Body. It might be a bit slower than the dragonmarks, but really if your soloing you will probably be going fairly slow any way.

[TPICKRELL]

If you are sure you want to splash into your monk, one fighter and one rogue are good choices.

BUT, the monk capstone is really good. I don't see any 1 or 2 level of splashes that bring in anything close to what the capstone is giving you by staying pure. So, I would either splash in enough of another class to bring a strong PRE (say kensai) or stay pure.

I guess if I did not plan to run any at level 20 (ie wasn't planning to stick with the toon that long, or planned an immediate TR, then I might look at things differently).

[Kriogen]

If you have max UMD (from rogue splash), do you really need healing dragonmarks?

If i'd do it, i'd go Monk18/Rog2 with no dragonmarks. With second rogue its easier to max skills.

Or Monk18/Rogue1/Ranger1. Can max UMD, auto use of cure wands, running speed boost and a couple of skill points extra.

[Warwolf42]

Thank you all for the comments, just a few more questions.

How good is the Monk Capstone ? I can see that +10 Conc gives you a better stable Ki pool, the +1 Ki regen is helpfull but is it that much better ?

Or is the Monk 20 Perfect Self the real big winner, DR 10/Epic ? Although if you plan on doing a lot Epics I can see where it wouldn't be that good ;)

I have a hard time dropping the Dragonmarks, a well placed heal in combat can be a life saver, are scrolls just as good ?

Thanks again

Edit: Oh! And how hard would it be to LR out of the splash and go pure when you reach 20th for End game ?

[TPICKRELL]

Thank you all for the comments, just a few more questions.

How good is the Monk Capstone ? I can see that +10 Conc gives you a better stable Ki pool, the +1 Ki regen is helpfull but is it that much better ?

Or is the Monk 20 Perfect Self the real big winner, DR 10/Epic ? Although if you plan on doing a lot Epics I can see where it wouldn't be that good ;)

I have a hard time dropping the Dragonmarks, a well placed heal in combat can be a life saver, are scrolls just as good ?

Thanks againIt's all of the above, plus the increase in amount of ki you retain before it begins to reduce. Level 20 monks often can hold more than 100 ki without any ki per time loss.

Also, note that very few individual MOBs in Epic quests can bypass DR10/EPIC.

[TPICKRELL]

Edit: Oh! And how hard would it be to LR out of the splash and go pure when you reach 20th for End game ?It's not hard, a bit expensive... But I've run a few monk and monk multiclasses to level 20, and leveling is never been a problem, even for my very first 28pt build drow (bad choice, i know now) monk.

[SolarDawning]

It's not really worth splashing other levels into a mostly monk build. The capstone and level 20 benefits are too good to give up. Trust us on this one.

Epic difficulty enemies don't bypass X/Epic DR. Only some raid bosses do.

If you lose the fighter level and bonus feat, I'd advise taking out "Improved Critical" instead to make your feats work.
Improved Critical is a very minor gain for a monk's damage capability, and only at all useful when fighting boss enemies who are immune to stunning.

On 95% of endgame enemies on a difficulty hard enough for it to matter, you'll just pop them with a Stunning Fist and put them into an automatic critical state.

[Jasam01]

I'm with those saying to go pure. Monks get an AMAZING capstone and have wholeness of body. I suppose you could Live without IC. Honestly I've yet to see meny halfling monks go for the marks. Most seem to prefur toughness.

[Warwolf42]

Well, you've pretty much convinced me to go pure. I really like the Dragonmarks for Soloing so I guess IC:bludgeon will have to go.

That also means no real UMD so I'll get to put more skills in Spot/Hide and MS :D

Thank you again.

[Kriogen]

...That also means no real UMD so I'll get to put more skills in Spot/Hide and MS :D
...
UMD skill if its not class/cross-class skill, so "half" (base CHA 10):
+11 natural ranks
+3 Skill Focus:UMD
+3 CHA 6 item (Monk 20 gets some special CHA based attack?)
+1 CHA tome
+3 Deleras amulet
+1 Luck bonus (Voice of the Master)
+4 Greater Heroism (there are clickies for this)
=26. Can use basic Cure wands

With better twink:
+6 Shroud item
+1 upgraded trinket (Gianthold, Stormreaver)
=33

With rare twink:
+2 Titan gloves (gloves are +5, but the same type as Deleras item)
=35

Heal scrolls have UMD check 40.

[NXPlasmid]

It's not really worth splashing other levels into a mostly monk build. The capstone and level 20 benefits are too good to give up. Trust us on this one.

Epic difficulty enemies don't bypass X/Epic DR. Only some raid bosses do.

If you lose the fighter level and bonus feat, I'd advise taking out "Improved Critical" instead to make your feats work.
Improved Critical is a very minor gain for a monk's damage capability, and only at all useful when fighting boss enemies who are immune to stunning.


Well, you've pretty much convinced me to go pure. I really like the Dragonmarks for Soloing so I guess IC:bludgeon will have to go.

That also means no real UMD so I'll get to put more skills in Spot/Hide and MS :D

Thank you again.

I must strongly disagree with these guys. with wholeness of body and great AC you never will need those dragonmarks, carry pots and run away while you drink them. You have to be crazy to give up IC bludgeon or if you do, forget about using smiting or banishing handwarps to any real effect. You'll have some time before you have to choose between a higher dragonmark and IC critical so you time to think about it. Oh and splashing into monk is just a bad idea as many others have said, the capstone is more than worth it, and at level 20 your unarmed damage goes from 2d8 to 2d10....

[SolarDawning]

I must strongly disagree with these guys. with wholeness of body and great AC you never will need those dragonmarks, carry pots and run away while you drink them. You have to be crazy to give up IC bludgeon or if you do, forget about using smiting or banishing handwarps to any real effect. You'll have some time before you have to choose between a higher dragonmark and IC critical so you time to think about it. Oh and splashing into monk is just a bad idea as many others have said, the capstone is more than worth it, and at level 20 your unarmed damage goes from 2d8 to 2d10....

Why would you ever use smiting and banishing handwraps?
In playing a halfling monk to level 20 twice, I've never been in a situation where it's quicker to smite/banish an enemy than it is just to kill them outright.

OP is going Ninja Spy, so if he really wants to use banishers, he'll be able to use banishing shortswords, and get improved critical with them for free. 17-20 > 19-20.

Improved Critical: Bludgeon has an extremely minor impact on overall DPS. You are increasing the critical threat range of handwraps from 20 to 19-20. On any late game enemies who are able to be stunned, you will be stunning them as your first attack, and then each attack thereafter is an automatic critical. Improved Crit will be of no help in these situations.

The only scenario in which it will make any real impact is on long stationary raid boss fights, where the melee stands and beats at a boss for several minutes. In these situations, the bosses have fortification of varying degrees, negating some critical hits.
Lets take Shroud Elite as an example. Arraetrakos there has what, 50% fortification? So instead of an average of 1 critical every 40 attacks on him, you'd have a critical every 20 attacks with Improved Critical.

The impact of these critical hits, compared to your overall damage and damage from your ki strikes, is so minor as to not be worth a feat.

[NXPlasmid]

Why would you ever use smiting and banishing handwraps?
In playing a halfling monk to level 20 twice, I've never been in a situation where it's quicker to smite/banish an enemy than it is just to kill them outright.

OP is going Ninja Spy, so if he really wants to use banishers, he'll be able to use banishing shortswords, and get improved critical with them for free. 17-20 > 19-20.

Improved Critical: Bludgeon has an extremely minor impact on overall DPS. You are increasing the critical threat range of handwraps from 20 to 19-20. On any late game enemies who are able to be stunned, you will be stunning them as your first attack, and then each attack thereafter is an automatic critical. Improved Crit will be of no help in these situations.

The only scenario in which it will make any real impact is on long stationary raid boss fights, where the melee stands and beats at a boss for several minutes. In these situations, the bosses have fortification of varying degrees, negating some critical hits.
Lets take Shroud Elite as an example. Arraetrakos there has what, 50% fortification? So instead of an average of 1 critical every 40 attacks on him, you'd have a critical every 20 attacks with Improved Critical.

The impact of these critical hits, compared to your overall damage and damage from your ki strikes, is so minor as to not be worth a feat.

Suit yourself, if you think a dragonmark is a better choice, I ain't gonna stop ya from taking it.

[Sirea]

I have a halfling 18/1/1 monk/fighter/rogue (Tabris (http://my.ddo.com/character/ghallanda/tabris/)) and I really enjoy playing her. She can no-fail UMD just about any scroll or wand, negating the need to take the dragonmarks, and is very versatile.

The Monk capstone is rather nice and a lot of people feel like it's a lot to give up. I thought an extra feat and the ability to fully self-heal and self-buff was worth giving it up. Some people don't. It's all really up to you.

[Warwolf42]

Thanks for all the input, here's what the pure build looks like. I'm not comfortable with dropping the Dragonmarks for soloing so IC has got to go.

Managed to get both Air and Earth Grandmasters but only Guile 1.

Please keep the comments coming.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Halfling Female
(20 Monk)
Hit Points: 302
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 15/15/20/2525
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 18
Will: 20

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength...........12 14 14
Dexterity...........16 18 20
Constitution.......15 18 18
Intelligence........10 12 12
Wisdom.............16 22 24
Charisma.............8 10 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance............7 28 28
Concentration....6 27 37
Hide.................5 22 26
Jump................1 2 6
Move Silently.....5 23 25
Spot................6 30 30

Level 1 Least Dragonmark of Healing (MB) Toughness
Level 2 (MB) Two Weapon Fighting
Level 3 Weapon Finesse, Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Level 6 Stunning Fist (MB) Dodge (Prereq for Ninja Spy)
Level 9 Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
Level 12 Greater Dragonmark of Healing
Level 15 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 18 Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Enhancements:

Capstone: Monk Serenity
Extra Dragonmark Use III
Halfling Dexterity II
Monk Wisdom II
Halfling Cunning I
Halfling Guile I
Monk Improved Recovery II
Way of the Clever Monkey III
Monk Ninja Spy II
Touch of Death
Fists of Iron
Static Charge
Porous Soul
All-Consuming Flame
Winter's Touch
Adept of Wind
Master of Thunder
Grandmaster of Storms
Adept of Rock
Master of Stone
Grandmaster of Mountains
Racial Toughness II
Monk Jump II (Prereq for Ninja Spy)
Monk Tumble II (Prereq for Ninja Spy)

Cheers

[Jasam01]

Looks good. I would consider consider trading Monk Recov II, or DEX/WIS II and getting Cunning/Guile II

[JeffreyGator]

So I have a monk that just went to the dark side for ninja-spy and has dragon marks.

With wholeness of body, as other posters have said, the dragon marks are a lot less needed for me but they are still good for in-fight healing when the monsters start to roll 20's and hit me 4 times in row for bigger numbers.

I have splashed more heavily for other things during self-sufficiency and because I can.

I'm taking 1 level of rogue and 7 levels of wizard - a big boost to dragonmarks is maximizing them and having levels of wiz gets me that feat for free. I also get to cast haste much more than anyone will carry clickies for which is quite nice when solo or with a group without a caster (or without a hasting caster). And yes last night I ran with a 12th+ level wizard that seemed to never cast haste.

It's another reason to like melee casters you know that they will haste themselves and therefore you. Nukers are less inclined to be helpful in this way.