Defender/DM Build Newer player

[rukkerz]

So I wanted to Create a Build that incorporated the Prestige Class Defender and also Divine Might for some Evil Killing and to be somewhat all around. I took the Bastard Sword feat for the purpose of Sword/Board fighting with decent hp/ac/saves. And I enhanced it with the Two-Handed fighting feats. I think I've seen worse builds out there heh. On another side note the plan would be to Switch to a Two-Handed weapon when I dont need the Shield. Please Tell me your opinions. Thank You.


Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 352
Spell Points: 293

BAB: 20/20/25/3030
Fortitude: 25
Reflex: 19
Will: 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 15 18
Dexterity 14 16
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 10 12
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 14 23

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7


Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 14
Bluff 2 6
Concentration 4 35
Diplomacy 2 7
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 6
Heal 1 2
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 2 6
Jump 2 4
Listen 1 2
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 1
Search 0 1
Spot 1 2
Swim 2 4
Tumble 3 8
Use Magic Device 4 17

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I

Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I

Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I

Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II

Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I

Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I

Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II

Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II

Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selectedd) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II

Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II

Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II

Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II

Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III

Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III

Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost III

Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III

Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III

Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Silver Flame Exorcism
Enhancement: Follower of the Silver Flame

Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III

Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might IV

If you made it this far that means you read through it! Thanks Again!

PS I know I didn't take CE/PA. Let me know if You think I should take one or both or none in your opinions. Maybe I could fit them in with a 2 Fighter Splash. And also I know I neglected Intimitade. I prefer a more active tanking role If i am doing the tanking then just sitting in the corner "turtle'n"

Thanks!

[rukkerz]

I will take the silence that This build is so totally awesome that nobody can find a flaw in it! Sweet!

I have only been playing for a Couple months and i'm Quite torn on weather to build this type of toon or a Cannon Fodder style Fighter. The saves of a Pure fighter and the amount of items needed to carry scare me as a new player.

I would like to be able to be somewhat self sufficient and have an ability to solo or group with a Friend or two.

I figured having the ability to use a Shield almost full time while doing decent damage via glancing blows along with the plus to Hate/Agro when in defensive stance would possibly make a fun build. Also being that the build incorporates Divine Might 4 with Stalwart Defender Just sounds like a fun combination.

Please feel free to give me any comments of flames.

[rukkerz]

Here is a link to the Fighter build i'm Debating using Instead of the Pally.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3110304&postcount=363

[Ralmeth]

Hey there Rukkerz,

There are some things I would suggest tweaking:
1) First, you really should have intimidate as a class skill if you're going to be a tank. The best two splashes are either 2 Fighter or 1 Fighter / 1 Rogue. The difference of having intimidate as a class skill vs not will be the difference of making or missing a role in some circumstances, which will in some cases leading to other squishies getting squished.

2) For your stats you don't need such a high dex score on a THF build. Your max dex bonus will be +3 (Dragontouched plate + 2 max dex bonus from DoS enhancement). You can also dump wisdom to a 8. Use those points in strength and charisma and put all level ups into strength.

3) Take CE. As a tank, you will need every point of AC. Also for your other feats, drop shield mastery and improved shield mastery...these are a bit of a waste. Use these for CE and power attack instead. Especially on a THF build, power attack will give you +10 to damage when you want to be in DPS mode. Also, take improved crit much earlier, as soon as you can. With a splash pick up extend, and if you go the 2 fighter route you could take sf-umd.

4) For your enhancements go for DMIII, and use those extra APs on divine sacrifice.

Good luck with it.

[rukkerz]

So Here is a revised version based on what you were telling me. I went with Rogue1/Fighter1 This way umd is a class skill. Thoughts and Opinions welcome.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(1 Fighter / 18 Paladin / 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 358
Spell Points: 205

BAB: 19/19/24/2929
Fortitude: 25
Reflex: 18
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 10 12
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 16 20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 5
Bluff 3 5
Concentration 4 32
Diplomacy 3 5
Disable Device 5 6
Haggle 3 5
Heal -1 0
Hide 0 1
Intimidate 7 27
Jump 7 12
Listen -1 0
Move Silently 0 1
Open Lock 4 5
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 5 6
Spot 3 4
Swim 3 7
Tumble 4 5
Use Magic Device 7 27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting

Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword

Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improveed Two Handed Fighting

Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting

Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise

Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+5)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Silver Flame Exorcism
Enhancement: Follower of the Silver Flame
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladiin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III

[Madchicken]

Well for one your builds dont have very high intimidate and two to even tank even to get after getting agro u need ac and dr while turtling and u dont have that. Your disable wont do anything (wasted points) Your balance wasnt worked on. Better hope u dont get knocked down or tripped.

[EKKM]

Well for one your builds dont have very high intimidate and two to even tank even to get after getting agro u need ac and dr while turtling and u dont have that. Your disable wont do anything (wasted points) Your balance wasnt worked on. Better hope u dont get knocked down or tripped.

Seeing as how there is no gear in the build those are interesting comments.

How much higher could his intim be without gear? AC?

What skills would you take at level 1 rogue other than what he did - heal, haggle, swim? what difference does 4 points in any of those make.

And lots of melees have few ranks in balance, it's not a game breaker (it is nice but Intim and UMD are more important IMO.

[rukkerz]

What it comes down to is that I want to be somewhat self sufficient. And the way the paladin builds I've been doing are coming out it almost seems like a Stalwart Defender Build will be more Self Sufficient even with Pure and Cross class umd. Reason for this is **** decent dps and Defensives. Now the full pure 20 Paladin feats can for sure be tweaked i'm sure and the stats too. Maybe I can drop Dexterity to 10 and add to my Intel so That I can cross class Intimidate a bit higher.

What if the general Idea was that the defensives are for Soloing/Small grouping with friends and the Offensive side are If i wanted to do harder stuff in a group. Equiping a Falchion. Maybe drop Shield Mastery and add CE and drop Improved Shield mastery and add Power Attack. That way I have a way to switch between Offense and Defense.

No i'm not looking for the BEST dps or the BEST tank in the game. I'm looking for a middle ground that can do medium-well in both worlds and not be too gimp to run **** with my friends on Normal/Hard and a Little Elite at lower levels. What kills me on Fighters is the fact they have zero real self healing Whereas If i'm Going with the high Charisma I'll at least have some decent high Lay on Hands.

Thanks for the valuable information. I am still quite new at this.

[Ralmeth]

Hi Rukkerz,

This looks much better! This build should work well and any other change would just be a minor tweak. Also, I wouldn't worry about Madchicken. Once you start getting your gear your intimidate, HP, AC, etc will be just fine.

Ralmeth

[unbongwah]

I wouldn't bother with WF Slash; Extend or a boost to one of your primary skills (SF UMD, SF Intimidate or maybe Bullheaded) seem like better choices, IMHO.

I also wouldn't bother with Concentration; max UMD & Intimidate, extra points into Balance would be my choice.

I'd be a little worried about your AC at higher levels with base DEX 10, but I'll let someone who's better at crunching the numbers help you work that out.

[Ralmeth]

What it comes down to is that I want to be somewhat self sufficient. And the way the paladin builds I've been doing are coming out it almost seems like a Stalwart Defender Build will be more Self Sufficient even with Pure and Cross class umd. Reason for this is **** decent dps and Defensives. Now the full pure 20 Paladin feats can for sure be tweaked i'm sure and the stats too. Maybe I can drop Dexterity to 10 and add to my Intel so That I can cross class Intimidate a bit higher.

What if the general Idea was that the defensives are for Soloing/Small grouping with friends and the Offensive side are If i wanted to do harder stuff in a group. Equiping a Falchion. Maybe drop Shield Mastery and add CE and drop Improved Shield mastery and add Power Attack. That way I have a way to switch between Offense and Defense.

No i'm not looking for the BEST dps or the BEST tank in the game. I'm looking for a middle ground that can do medium-well in both worlds and not be too gimp to run **** with my friends on Normal/Hard and a Little Elite at lower levels. What kills me on Fighters is the fact they have zero real self healing Whereas If i'm Going with the high Charisma I'll at least have some decent high Lay on Hands.

Thanks for the valuable information. I am still quite new at this.

Hi Rukkerz,

The splash build you posted is very self sufficient with the 1 Rogue splash giving you max UMD. This will let you use heal scrolls on yourself at higher level, in addition to your emergency LOH. You'll have a good amount of healing to hold your own. As a Paladin you will also be able to have most curative items on hand (not just in potion form) to remove any ill effects. Healing wands will be extremely helpful as you level up, later replaced with heal scrolls. A Paladin will be more self-sufficient than a Fighter build.

Also as for your comments about being defensive in small groups and offensive in large ones, I wouldn't think of it this way. Instead whether you are in a defensive tank mode or an offensive DPS mode depends on the situation, not the size of the group. A good tank recognizes and knows when to be in DPS mode and when to tank. It can take some pratice, but if you like playing a tank you'll get good at it.

Ralmeth

[Ralmeth]

I wouldn't bother with WF Slash; Extend or a boost to one of your primary skills (SF UMD, SF Intimidate or maybe Bullheaded) seem like better choices, IMHO.

I also wouldn't bother with Concentration; max UMD & Intimidate, extra points into Balance would be my choice.

I'd be a little worried about your AC at higher levels with base DEX 10, but I'll let someone who's better at crunching the numbers help you work that out.

I agree with you that extend would be a better choice, but the build is mostly there. Anything else are just minor tweaks. As for concentration this is a helpful skill (I didn't think so for a very long time), but it does help you from getting knocked out of casting a heal scroll. When things are getting rough and you're low on HP this can be the difference between getting that heal off or not.

I would not be worried about AC because of a base dex of 10. The max dex bonus of Dragontouched plate + the DoS enhancements is +3. Dragontouched plate has a max dex bonus of 1, and DoS adds 2. So a starting dex of 10 is fine. 8 or 9 could also work: starting dex of 8 + 2 tome + 6 item = 16 (i.e. +3 max dex bonus).

Ralmeth

[unbongwah]

Unless your heart's set on human, you may wish to consider dwarf instead. You'll give up some skill points and take a CHA penalty; but you'll have more HPs, higher max AC, and higher DPS w/DAxes & greataxes. Take a look at lord of rage's recent builds (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=254393).