Devs: Guild Renown

[Mobeius]

Maybe you intended it this way, but maybe take a look at scaling renown for higher and more difficult content. Love the idea and guild ship idea, just think it needs tweaking.

[irivan]

Maybe you intended it this way, but maybe take a look at scaling renown for higher and more difficult content. Love the idea and guild ship idea, just think it needs tweeking.

Yeah i have noticed that renown drops in lower level quests much more frequently. Albeit smaller amounts generally.

I too think this needs some serious tweaking.

Additionally it should scale with difficulty and level

Meaning:

Quests level 1-5 - 30% drop chance
5-15 - Monsters
50-chests, and end rewards

Quests level 6-10 - 40% drop chance
5-15 monsters
50-150 chest, and end rewards

Quest level 11-15 - 50% Drop Chance
5-50 monsters
50-150 chest, and end rewards

Quest level 16-21+ - 60% Drop Chance
50-150 monsters
150-500 chest, and end rewards

Quest level EPIC - 70% Drop Chance
150-500 monsters
500-1500 chest, and end rewards.

[Gorbadoc]

Why?

Based on the Turbine statements I've read, the point is to encourage active membership and a sense of community within guilds. If you're online running quests, why should it matter what level quest you're running?

[Mobeius]

Why?

Based on the Turbine statements I've read, the point is to encourage active membership and a sense of community within guilds. If you're online running quests, why should it matter what level quest you're running?

Risk VS. Reward

Higher Risk = Higher Reward

Lower Risk = Less Reward

'Nuff Said

[Onesikpup]

If it drops more frequently in lower quests, how is that "fair" to those guilds that run higher level quests/raids?

......the answer is

.....its not intended to be fair, its intent is to have the game slanted towards the casual/p2p player who are currently "in control" of this game. Turbine hardly gives 2 ***** about the longtime player or those that are subscribers. Their actions spak way louder than any words they could possibly say.






*"in control"* means, they are listening to them through their surveys and cash input responses, and are consequently being catered to.

[Gorbadoc]

Risk VS. Reward

Higher Risk = Higher Reward

Lower Risk = Less Reward

'Nuff Said

So,

The risk with running Tower of Despair (high level quest) is that I might die a little on the inside by spending another evening on the computer. The benefit is that I enjoy the quest despite that liability.

The risk with running The Depths of Despair/Doom/Dingleberry/Darkness (low level quest) is that I might die a little on the inside by spending another evening on the computer. The benefit is that I enjoy the quest despite that liability.

Those are what pop to my mind as the risks and benefits. Something tells me you had something else in mind, though. So, please, what did you have in mind? This time, when you explain, remember that I'm not you and that I can't read your mind.

[Skani]

@up

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/renown

Killing Horoth on elite = wooooo. +renown
Doing puzzle at Korthos = +same renown. Seriously?

Either scale it, or change the name of system to "points from any activity".

[Mobeius]

So,

The risk with running Tower of Despair (high level quest) is that I might die a little on the inside by spending another evening on the computer. The benefit is that I enjoy the quest despite that liability.

The risk with running The Depths of Despair/Doom/Dingleberry/Darkness (low level quest) is that I might die a little on the inside by spending another evening on the computer. The benefit is that I enjoy the quest despite that liability.

Those are what pop to my mind as the risks and benefits. Something tells me you had something else in mind, though. So, please, what did you have in mind? This time, when you explain, remember that I'm not you and that I can't read your mind.

ok fair and easy enough...

Assassin..


Assassinates Homelss Person = Huh? what? What? Who? Maybe in the obturaries of the Sunday Paper???

Assassinates the leader of a prosperous country = World News for weeks.

[Brennie]

All the above reasons, plus the fact it is more profitable, guild renown wise, for high level characters to run extremely low level content for renown, rather than toughing it out against epic enemies.

6 people in irestone inlet on elite, dividing to kill everything as quickly as possibly, and then expeditious retreating to each chest to salvage renown tokens... Or just having everyone farm haverdasher for its 2 chests?

Hardly seems like a balanced system.

I'd hate to see renown stripped from people running low level quests, but i would like to see higher level quests give higher renown amounts, to reflect the effort put into reachign ihgher level, as well as the effort needed to successfuly get through higher level content,

[Gorbadoc]

Just to be clear, I think this is the argument you're hinting at:

1) Characters earn renown for a guild by performing impressive tasks.
2) Higher level content by its very nature involves more impressive tasks.
3) If a task is more impressive, then that task should create more renown for a guild.
4) Therefore, higher level content should generate more renown for a guild.

Even if this isn't what you were getting at, I believe many people feel this way, so I'll address it.

Guild rank is an accomplishment in the community of players. 'Impressive' should be understood in that context. It does not matter what a peasant farmer in Stormreach would find impressive. What matters is whether you or I would find an action impressive.

Frankly, if I could draw a bunch of new players into my guild and get them into the game such that they run (and enjoy) all the low-level content in a couple weeks, that would be impressive. It's slightly more impressive than if I take some not-quite-new players and get them through gianthold and the desert.

With this understanding of 'impressive', point 2 is incorrect. Higher level content does not by its very nature impress the community of players. Duh, of course folks who have been around forever and have high-level characters and fancy gear can run the shroud.

That said, I do hope Turbine will add a guild achievement system for quests that require actual effort and coordination to complete. Give each guild a trophy/medals case in its ship, so any visitor can see that, oh, yes, you lot DID do Tower of Despair on Elite, didn't you?

[Barumar]

Why?

Based on the Turbine statements I've read, the point is to encourage active membership and a sense of community within guilds. If you're online running quests, why should it matter what level quest you're running?

One point left out in the OP is the level of those doing the quest. Level 20's farming Irestone on Elite (or even Normal :eek:) for fast easy reknown is one way Guilds are leveling fast!

Why should that earn as much reknown as a group of level 5's doing that quest? They are certainly doing something worthy of reknown, but the level 20's?

Barumar

[Morlen]

One point left out in the OP is the level of those doing the quest. Level 20's farming Irestone on Elite (or even Normal :eek:) for fast easy reknown is one way Guilds are leveling fast!

Why should that earn as much reknown as a group of level 5's doing that quest? They are certainly doing something worthy of reknown, but the level 20's?

Barumar

This. XP scales with character level compared to quest level, why shouldn't renown? Of all the suggestions I've seen, this one makes the most sense to me.

[Crazyfruit]

One point left out in the OP is the level of those doing the quest. Level 20's farming Irestone on Elite (or even Normal :eek:) for fast easy reknown is one way Guilds are leveling fast!

Why should that earn as much reknown as a group of level 5's doing that quest? They are certainly doing something worthy of reknown, but the level 20's?

Barumar

They don't. For elite, a level 5 group would earn between 2x (bad luck) to 10x as much as the level 20s do. There is scaling already but it's subtle other than these extremes.

/signed - because those 10-20s are getting more renown doing low level stuff for 50s than they would from many high level quests.

[Goldeneye]

Renown

the state or quality of being widely honored and acclaimed
celebrity; wide recognition
celebrated: widely known and esteemed


(Google "define: renown)

[sirgog]

Why?

Based on the Turbine statements I've read, the point is to encourage active membership and a sense of community within guilds. If you're online running quests, why should it matter what level quest you're running?

Because people use mana potions and other consumables running extremely tough content - and Turbine have to love that. Some of them will be store-purchased.

[Angelus_dead]

Guild rank is an accomplishment in the community of players. 'Impressive' should be understood in that context. It does not matter what a peasant farmer in Stormreach would find impressive. What matters is whether you or I would find an action impressive.
A couple TRs power-levelling their way through Stormcleave Elite for the 4th run in a row doesn't impress me at all, what with all the potions they've mailed themselves. And once they hit 12th and hold the greensteel they become even less impressive.

[Goldeneye]

Good point. Especially with the massive amount of XP needed, 2nd TR's are going to be collecting a ridiculous amount of Renown while grinding the same xp runs again and again.

Yes, 2nd TR is impressive. No, beating Trial by Fire with LS GS is not impressive

[smatt]

Bah... Renown drop rate should be the same gamewide....

[Souless]

A couple TRs power-levelling their way through Stormcleave Elite for the 4th run in a row doesn't impress me at all, what with all the potions they've mailed themselves. And once they hit 12th and hold the greensteel they become even less impressive.

Ok ive read some of this post....and i gotta say quit whining about twink gear...my goodness...don't hate the player hate the game....if the xp grind (that turbine put in) wasn't so extreeme then....or for that matter TR all together (which turbine put in)....expect players to maximize their reward for their effort...And if u have a problem with that I guess u could just whine about it.

The Bytcher~

[Souless]

As far as renown goes,
The one thing that I have noticed thus far is that it seems to reward larger guilds, not better players, nor successful guilds. The odds that a raid my guild (which is small by design) particapates in is more likely to succeed rather than wipe. And there doesn't seem to be any provision for that...

Perhaps an end reward like the 1000 pts favor on the more difficult quests/raids garunteed would reward not only large guilds that fail but small guilds that succeed. Or some variation of this theme...

The Bytcher~

[Goldeneye]

As far as renown goes,
The one thing that I have noticed thus far is that it seems to reward larger guilds, not better players, nor successful guilds.

This is the reason why a small amount of renown decay could be beneficial in balancing large guilds vs. small guilds.

btw - look at Elite Raiders on Khyber - despite being a small/medium sized guild - they are a tight group of good players, and their guild ranking reflects as such.

[DragonMageT]

This is the reason why a small amount of renown decay could be beneficial in balancing large guilds vs. small guilds.

btw - look at Elite Raiders on Khyber - despite being a small/medium sized guild - they are a tight group of good players, and their guild ranking reflects as such.

Wake up people, DDO's renown is not renown.

DDO's Renown system has nothing to do with guilds or players ability (good, bad, or average).
It's a random drop in a chest therefore the more chest you open, the more chances you get at renown.
More active people in the guild = faster renown.

If you want to get renown fast, you can (which many guilds have done)

Farm shroud (1-3) 15-20minutes = 8 chest
Shroud 30 minutes = 12 chest + end reward
Reaver's Fate 11 - 15 minutes = 4 chest + end reward
Irestone on Elite <8 minutes = 5 or 6 chest ( i would skip the quest completion , takes to long)
etc, etc, plenty of examples of quest or raids with many chest for little time.

A true renown system would scale like XP does, 20's in lvl 5 quest = 0% chance of renown
Harder content = greater renown.
Fail a quest or raid = lost renown
Maybe solo or short man a quest/raid = greater renown.

It should be renamed to "DDO Crack System" :) as in our guild cracked open the most chest and the way some guilds obsessed about reaching lvl 20 or being the first or top like a drug.

[Mobeius]

As far as renown goes,
The one thing that I have noticed thus far is that it seems to reward larger guilds, not better players, nor successful guilds. The odds that a raid my guild (which is small by design) particapates in is more likely to succeed rather than wipe. And there doesn't seem to be any provision for that...

Perhaps an end reward like the 1000 pts favor on the more difficult quests/raids garunteed would reward not only large guilds that fail but small guilds that succeed. Or some variation of this theme...

The Bytcher~

Myabe they should put in a negative renown for deaths, like 5 for the first minus 10 for the second, and cap at minus 15 for every death after that. Quest failure minus 50 renown and raid failure minus 150 Renown.

On top of that they should scale renown up for higher and harder level quests.

[Trillea]

Renown should come from quest completions ONLY. Furthermore, the higher the level the quest, and the longer the quest, the more renown it should be worth. A whole dungeon should have a total amount of renown that it is worth for completion, and that amount should be divided among the number of characters in the party that complete it. So say a dungeon is worth 1000 renown, and you 6-man it, each person would get approximately 166 renown for the dungeon. If a guy soloes it, he should get the full 1000 renown for it. Maybe with a bonus for severely short-manning a quest (3 or less people).

Make the renown scale down at the same rate or sharper as XP for doing quests above level. Level 20 characters should receive no renown for doing quests meant for level 10s and below.

This is my 2cp.

[Gorbadoc]

Risk VS. Reward

Higher Risk = Higher Reward

Lower Risk = Less Reward

'Nuff Said


So,

The risk with running Tower of Despair (high level quest) is that I might die a little on the inside by spending another evening on the computer. The benefit is that I enjoy the quest despite that liability.

The risk with running The Depths of Despair/Doom/Dingleberry/Darkness (low level quest) is that I might die a little on the inside by spending another evening on the computer. The benefit is that I enjoy the quest despite that liability.

Those are what pop to my mind as the risks and benefits. Something tells me you had something else in mind, though. So, please, what did you have in mind? This time, when you explain, remember that I'm not you and that I can't read your mind.

This got me negative reputation? Hmm. I thought Mobeius and I were adequately civil in our exchange. Apparently someone thought otherwise.

Could someone please explain (in a PM if necessary) where I crossed a line? As a rule, I don't like offending people, so I like to know what is and isn't liable to offend the folks in a given forum.

Whoever you are, if you decide to give me neg rep again, I'd be much obliged if you'd either post or PM me with something that hints at how I've violated forum policies. I find this secret neg rep unhelpful.

[Mobeius]

This got me negative reputation? Hmm. I thought Mobeius and I were adequately civil in our exchange. Apparently someone thought otherwise.

Could someone please explain (in a PM if necessary) where I crossed a line? As a rule, I don't like offending people, so I like to know what is and isn't liable to offend the folks in a given forum.

Whoever you are, if you decide to give me neg rep again, I'd be much obliged if you'd either post or PM me with something that hints at how I've violated forum policies. I find this secret neg rep unhelpful.

I didnt give you neg rep but I am pretty sure I know what did. You have to understand that most players for any game getting to the high end content is a lot of time and effort and resources. Running some of those quests are very difficult and takes time to do, and you're right to extent that challenging quests can happen for any level.

However, when you try to say a level 5 is = to a level 20's time and both should be treated the same, you're going to ruffle some feathers. People that dont have the levels or the gear will almost certainly consider the higher level people "elitist" for that very reason. Unless high level toons take their time and baby sit low level toons which in turn takes away from their time too.

So in effect you said TOD = Depths of (House D) Series. Level 20 char = Level 5 char. Thats bad.

This comoning back to renown and risk vs reward and the logic behind. If they did the loot like the did renown, they would just strip the minimum levels from all magic items and make everything unbound that way every can go through Water Works and open the closet up and get whatever gear they want in game and continue on. Pretty Boring eh?


I can only guess why you got neg rep though, could be your name for all I know.

[Angelus_dead]

Could someone please explain (in a PM if necessary) where I crossed a line?
Just making a guess, but it's probably because your statements were so ludicrous as to seem almost insulting. You reframed the question in a way as to consider the whole thing as absurd. Someone probably felt that was an offensive waste of time.

I mean, seriously. A line like: "die a little on the inside by spending another evening on the computer" is like a caricature of a lazy liberal arts essay. To use that kind of statement in a question of game design is like if a football coach is in a postgame interview (http://www.theonion.com/articles/thoughtful-nation-questioning-whether-anyone-can-r,2906/) and he starts questioning the whole concept of professional althetics:

After much thought, I am left with the question: What if both teams are succeeding by striving? And what if both teams actually have conflicting concepts of what constitutes their opposition—not a mere football team, but an adversary physical, metaphysical, or perhaps even emotional? If we agree that this is the case, then each team may have its own unique definition of success independent of the other, a definition rendering any so-called 'final' score moot."