/sign for renowned floatie removal

[Captain_Wizbang]

Very simple, If you hate that guild level number next to your guilds name just sign.


DONT explain, just sign

[Captain_Wizbang]

/ Signed

[Kintro]

/sign

EDIT: Some reasons:

- Means nothing unless you know about guild renown.
- Surely going to cause Korthos to become a sea of "What's the number next to that guy's guild name? Why does he have a 5 when my new guild has a 1?"
- Already too many people asking to join, especially with the guild near capacity. Now we have even more just wanting to join the number not the guild.

[AbsynthMinded]

/signed

[samthedagger]

and bring back the TR wings!

[AbsynthMinded]

/signed

Fixed.

[Tobril]

/signed

Officer/Leader/Member status is much more useful.

Having wings back would also be nice.

[MrkGrismer]

/signed

[Akael]

/signed

[Moustique]

Oh yeah ho yeah ho yeah!

/signed!

[AyumiAmakusa]

/signed for the heck of it.

[Cyr]

/signed

[GreenGurgler]

/signed

... stupid and meaningless.... BIGGER says nothing about the Quality of a guild. For example, on Argo, what would you divine from the numbers if Korthos Army had a 10 and Archmagi had a 4 ??? It would only tell you that KA is bigger, it tells you nothing about the caliber of the players (those of you who know both guilds can draw your own conclusions ;) )

Sorry KA :D

[M0NKEYB0Y]

/signed

Not that it will help!

[Bradik_Losdar]

/signed

[phillymiket]

/signed

[mws2970]

/signed

[DANTEIL]

Although I generally don't approve of petition spam, this gets a /signed from me.


If there is going to be a leaderboard system of some sort, what's the point of having the guild rank added to the floaty text as well? Add it to the char bio instead if it's deemed important enough to show.

[Eladiun]

/Signed Not that I mind the level but I want rank back.

[Crazyfruit]

I like it, but on the other hand I could also see it being really annoying at high guild levels from people who beg to join for ship buffs :|

[Srozbun]

/signed

IMO bring TR wings back and make the guild levels show when you examine someone. It just looks distasteful with people running around with numbers next to their names.

[geminijester]

/ signed

[woundweaver]

/signed, again

why not? i read somewheres that the wings were just exhaust coming from awesomeness

[Monkeytoe]

/sign

[karnokvolrath]

/signed

[kamimitsu]

/sign

[aGorilla]

/signed

[Havok34]

/signed

[ShotByBothSides]

/signed for sure

[rdasca]

/signed

[Ovrad]

/signed

Showing it in the info screen is enough, we don't need to see your peni.. er.. guild rank all the time.

[SINIBYTE]

/signed

[Potvin]

/signed

Showing it in the info screen is enough, we don't need to see your peni.. er.. guild rank all the time.

/signed and agreed with above

[MrLarone]

/signed

and bring back the TR wings =)

***edit***

how a about a wing system for guilds too. say something that becomes more elaborate every 10 lvls or so...

[jayne]

/signed

[Doomcrew]

/signed

[Velexia]

/Signed. I liked the Guild Ranks.

[dwelsh99]

Im sure everyone has thier reason for not wanting it.

As for me, not signing, whats the point of having the reknown system if you cannot see where we stand.

At the least Turbine if this is disabled, give us a way to look it up, maybe on MyDDO.

[ISMisst]

/sign

[Tinrae]

/signed but on the condition that it displays only the guild name. I don't like clutter next to the guild name.

If rank and guild level info needs to be made public, have it available on character inspection.

[szaijan]

/signed

It just looks bad. I don't care that my guild will forever be level one, and I don't care that other people know that, but fashion counts!

[butlerfamilywa]

/not signed

Reasons:

A) You can turn them off, it's in your UI Settings. Of course, it also turns off the display of the Guild Name.
B) Gives other Guilds a reason to strive to grab renowned points.

Oh, and as a member of a medium sized power gamer guild, I can say that I will push for those points, because I want the benefits that they give.

[karl_k0ch]

Once there is an easily accessible leaderboard where every guild can compare its e-peen with others, it is more confusing than explaining.

/signed.

[SaisMatters]

/signed

I'm pretty sure it causes lag ;)

[Senshock]

/signed

[Diib]

/signed

[brlftz]

/signed

[LondonGer]

/signed

[IronClan]

/signed

[RuneStriker]

/signed

[ddo4u]

/signed

[IronClan]

/not signed
B) Gives other Guilds a reason to strive to grab renowned points.


They don't need more incentives... the mile long list of ONE HOUR stacking uber buffs that only large guilds will get the best of is far and away more incentive than was ever needed. Add the screwy minimum guild level random loot that you can't use unless you're in a guild and probably a LARGE guild... and the "incentives" were already Monty Hall

[Luis_Velderve]

Very simple, If you hate that guild level number next to your guilds name just sign.


DONT explain, just sign

Guild renown vs Individual Rank?

I do not see fair that a LVL 1 n00b that may quit days later can take pride of a number achived by Guildies that have been with their guild for years. There should be more ranks than member,officer and leader. If turbine wants money, enable a custom rank system for the cost of a guild charter THAT IS MORE THAN FAIR.

Add Guild renown to the BIO if you want, I do not want lvl1 running behind me asking to be recluted every 30 seconds!

I got to say that a Guild is for their members; it is a tool, a easy way to know people with similar interest that allow you to be confortable at the game. Blind invites is a highway to disaster.

Members are the soul of a Guild therefore individual achivements inside a Guild should have rank better than merely "member", "Officer" and "Leader". In Our guild we have a 2 i/c , an XO and merit ranks and I got to say, that this gives purpose and focus to our members; we want to become X,Y and Z rank.

/signed with comments

[Muppethero]

Un needed

[globalmojo1]

/ Signed

[Lady_Josslyn]

/signed

we like the member, officer, Leader, please put it back

[Yeric]

sign

[Dark-Gulrak]

/signed

[Zyklon]

/not signed

I need it so I can boot any player that joins my group that is not above a certain guild level.


Actually, /sign because my guild is so small I would have to boot myself! :p


-

[Zaodan]

Options, Gameplay:

Show Guild Name [ ]
Show Guild Position [ ]
Show Guild Rank [ ]


Zaodon

Zaodon
GuildName

Zaodon
Member, GuildName

Zaodon
GuildName (5)

Zaodon
Member, GuildName (5)

[bringjoy]

/signed

it is just annoying=(

[BereanMalachi]

/ signed awefully classless if you ask me . Its like walking arounf with inches taped to your **** you fill in the blank

[tunabomber]

/signed another dumb change.

[eonfreon]

/signed
And leave the Guild Rank off please. No one needs to know if I'm a Member or Officer.

[Tharlak]

/signed

[rage9]

/sign
and put back the TR wings and leader, officer member status as well.
It was nice to know if the idiot I'm running with is the leader or officer of a guild, or just a member that might have joined 2 mins ago, just sayin

[Stormwine]

/signed

[Griphon]

/sign

/signs his pet's name

/signs his girlfriend's name

/signs his dead grandmother's name

/signs 'Kill Roy was here'

[kernal42]

/signed.

That floaty is annoying.

[EddieB_TBC]

/signed

although based on the seemingly near complete lack of actual QA on this release I really doubt they give a rats...
:(

[amethystdragon]

/signed

I fore see it as being used as a griefing system. "Oh your guild is not big enough to have this buff on your airship, I'm not letting you into my group!" We already see this going on with MyDDO, you don't have this item yet I'm not going to group with you. Why do we need to give these types of people more ammunition?

[pumagirl418]

/sign

[Tolero]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

[herzkos]

/signed.
leave ranks off as well.
just the guild name is enough.
if you need to know the rank of the person, well try myddo. if it doesn't
work, complain because it's broken and needs to be fixed.

[mws2970]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

Why was it included in the first place? So other guilds can see what your level is? In my opinion, it has no usefulness and could potentially be used as a screening tool to keep people/guilds out of quests and raids. My 2 cp.

[eonfreon]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

I would it's self-evident and most have explained their reasons. Mainly we don't like to have the size of our pen... I mean Guilds on display. It's just not classy.
So perhaps you could give us your thoughts instead on why Turbine thought we would like it and what purpose does it serve?

[Docta_PoPo]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

quoted for truth


"He who establishes his argument by noise and command shows that his reason is weak.” - Michel de Montaigne

[M.ham]

/sign

I do not like the added clutter. Does not look clean....

M.

[kamimitsu]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

Agreed.

1) Aesthetics. It just looks silly.
2) E-peen measuring. Do we really need more?
3) Membership limits. Many guilds have enough publicity as it is.
4) Time consuming. I spend enough time declining folks who want to join our guild (or at least discussing with them the process). Additional publicity will exacerbate that, leaving me less time to enjoy the game.
5) Smaller guilds. Why join a guild with a low rank (even if they seemed promising?) over one with a high rank.

Probably more, but that's all immediately coming to mind.

edit:
6) PuG discrimination. Low ranking guild members may find it more difficult to get groups (if it wasn't difficult enough already), possibly widening the new player/old player gap.

[dopey69]

/signed......hated the guild ranking too glad it is gone now this must go then we are as it should be name and guild th tha that's all folks

[-Satureon-]

/signed

- that number tell mostly quantity grind, not quality
- i miss the floaty wings on TR
- give back the ranks (member, officer, leader)

[Zaodan]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

Reason #1: This feature has caused griefing.
- as a member of a high level guild, people were sending /tells to our members asking to join. It wasn't just 1 person spamming (which is reportable), it was many people just asking once. So, they are not (individually) breaking any rules of DDO, yet the result was that we (the guild members) are getting SPAMMED with tells for guild invites.

Please disable this feature to prevent such spamming.

[ArkoHighStar]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

like myddo.com it will create a requirement for people to be in larger guilds so they can have the big number, because you know that random puggers are going to deny people because they don't have a high enough reknown, despite the fact that reknown has nothing to do with quality of a guild and everything to do with how many bodies can you have running quests at once.

At the very least it shoudl be removed from the floaty text as it just looks bad and return the member/officer text

[Borror0]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.
I don't understand why you don't close threads like this one under the reason "not actionable feedback."

PS: I agree it should go for the two first reasons kamimitsu listed.

[Gravefiller]

/signed

[Tolero]

I don't understand why you don't close threads like this one under the reason "not actionable feedback."

PS: I agree it should go for the two first reasons kamimitsu listed.

Well we don't have any rules against non actionable threads as long as they follow all the other rules (though to clarify... in such forms it means it's less likely that the feedback is forwarded as anything other than "doesn't like" in the grand scheme of all the feedback we get...hence why including reasons is better).

[SirShen]

/signed

bring back the TR wings.

[DragonKiller]

Agreed.

1) Aesthetics. It just looks silly.
2) E-peen measuring. Do we really need more?
3) Membership limits. Many guilds have enough publicity as it is.
4) Time consuming. I spend enough time declining folks who want to join our guild (or at least discussing with them the process). Additional publicity will exacerbate that, leaving me less time to enjoy the game.
5) Smaller guilds. Why join a guild with a low rank (even if they seemed promising?) over one with a high rank.

Probably more, but that's all immediately coming to mind.

^What he said.

Biggest reasons are #2 and #5. Your guild rank has nothing to do with the quality of player in said guild. But larger guilds will flop down their e-peen on the ground to prove how uber they are, and use their guild rank as proof. Just as MyDDO is sometimes used as a greifing tool, Guild Ranks will become the defacto griefing tool.

[SirShen]

Well we don't have any rules against non actionable threads as long as they follow all the other rules (though to clarify... in such forms it means it's less likely that the feedback is forwarded as anything other than "doesn't like" in the grand scheme of all the feedback we get...hence why including reasons is better).

But saying we dont like it, is feedback. So what you are saying is if we dont put a 5 page right up it means nothing. Sigh.

[Borror0]

Well we don't have any rules against non actionable threads as long as they follow all the other rules (though to clarify... in such forms it means it's less likely that the feedback is forwarded as anything other than "doesn't like" in the grand scheme of all the feedback we get...hence why including reasons is better).
Locking blatantly nonconstructive threads, like petitions, would force players to write more actionable feedback, which is what Turbine wants in the end.

[AbsynthMinded]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

Hmm.. Off hand the track record of giving detailed logical reasoning for Turbine to not do something and Turbine listening and not doing something is pretty bad..

Otherwise, no toggles for customization clearly indicates a sloppy design concept. Can you offer any reasoning why it was changed to the present state without any toggles? Was there even any discussion to the potential social repercussions or lack of graphical appeal?

[sephiroth1084]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.
I liked seeing whether someone was an Officer or Leader of a guild while grouping with them. For one, it is more likely for someone to ask about a guild, or for an invite to a guild, if they are with officers.

As for the numbers, they look silly and serve basically no purpose (big guilds are known anyway, small guilds don't need to have negative publicity).

[Elsbet]

/signed

I've been out of junior high school for way too long to have to deal with this kind of infantile, cliquish labeling again.

It's one thing to be in a guild and run with people you enjoy running with. It is something entirely different to legitimize petty ****ing contests.

*sigh* This used to be a game adults could enjoy WITHOUT dev-sanctioned prepubescent drama.

[DANTEIL]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

Here is why I think that guild rank should not be included as part of the floaty text:

It make the guild vs. guild rank issues too blatant in the context of the game. To put it another way, there are too many epeen issues with this. What is the point? Shouldn't guild membership be enough?

More specifically, it provides a too-easy way for people to quickly identify the level of other players in game:
a) if a player's guild is deemed too low-level, then they may be discriminated against (note: similar to what non-guilded people have been experiencing before U5)
b) if a player's guild is really high-level, then they are likely to be on the receiving end of possibly unwanted /tells asking to join the guild, etc.

There are already too many reasons for knee-jerk characterizations of other players in the game. Why add one more?

[Borror0]

But saying we dont like it, is feedback. So what you are saying is if we dont put a 5 page right up it means nothing. Sigh.
1. Something can be beneficial to the long term health of the game even if it is unpopular. Turbine has to weight the cost of alleviating players' frustration with the change versus dealing with the fact that not all good decisions will be popular.

2. Simply because a feature is unpopular on the forums - or disliked by some people - does not signify it should be removed. For one, the forum population is not representative of the game's population; it is slanted toward more hardcore and invested players. Secondly, if the game's population is split on the issue, knowing what is liked or disliked helps trying to find the best of both worlds. If the feature is removed, only one camp would be satisfied.

3. Knowing what is disliked guides later features, avoiding to make the same mistake twice.

[pixelbox]

/signed

[Modinator0]

yeah /signed... anything that segregates the community is bad IMO. Get rid of the (adventurer) (champion) etc, as well.

[SisAmethyst]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

/signed

reasons:
1. the numbers will create the imaginary need to join larger guilds which probably works contradictonary to the social aspect
2. numbers will create false impressions 'ahhh see this lvl 20 noob in a level 2 guild' as it is sad but true, that it is a common human nature to judge by first impression... independent of individual exceptions
3. guild levels creates an unnecessary pressure on guild achievements which may be the death for a lot of small guilds (how likely is it that someone join a lvl 50+ guild rather a new lvl 1 guild?)
4. After a while it will get hard for new players to create an own Guild as they have to visibly compete against the higher numbers (see 3)
5. I want to be judged by my matters and how good I play my characters rather by the level of my guild
6. there is no need to always show the numbers as after a while the top ten guilds are known regardless of number spam ;)
7. some people who create a guild just for the family or just to stop that random blind invites but may already play since ages and achieved some levels and suddenly been begged for invites
8. rank names give hints who I can ask e.g. for an invite or for internal guild matters
9. it is an esthetically question as the TR wings and the names just look nicer

Don't get me wrong, me and I guess most people here like to have their guild to reach a high level, but we can see that pretty much on the guild page, together with our special achievements that the level brings with.

[Tolero]

But saying we dont like it, is feedback. So what you are saying is if we dont put a 5 page right up it means nothing. Sigh.

It isn't that it's not feedback, it's that it is less effective. I don't expect every person to know how to write "the perfect feedback write up," nor do I expect an essay about every issue. I do like giving people tips to help their feedback go further. Telling us "no" only tells us just that. For example, right now I have people yelling at me both for, and against, the TR wings. Are we supposed to go with which side has more? It's better to have reasons on both sides, especially if compromises can be reached between the two in ways that avoid the problems that were bothering both when possible. Feedback is a "skill" (http://my.ddo.com/tolero/2009/11/08/writing-actionable-feedback/) and one that is seldom taught (for some strange reason) despite how important it is to anyone who is a consumer (i.e. most of us).

[herzkos]

/snip
3. Knowing what is disliked guides later features, avoiding to make the same mistake twice.
I agree with parts 1 and 2 completely.
part 3, especially the part about avoiding repeatable mistakes. that's a goal to shoot for right?
because i'm not seeing much success from turbine on that one.
specifically, hey, lets invent some uber weapons (i.e. greensteel) and deal with the fall out
from their power later. Ok, coupla years later,

turbine employee A:"hey, we need to make something worthwhile to get
this guild renown thing going"
turbine emp B: "how bout we give all these amazing buffs that are stackable,persistent, and
potentially non-dispellable for the upper levels of guild renown"

the above conversation is obviously hypothetical but oh well, lets break the game again with
overpowering effects that existing quests aren't designed for.

[CompWiz]

/signed

for multiple reasons...

[LordDamax]

If my guild's level is next to its name, why isnt my characters?

Stupid to have one without the other. Remove it. It looks bad.

[die]

/signed

[phillymiket]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

Ok, fair enough. Sorry. I just /signed w/o reasons because it was the OPs wishes.

The reason I would like to not see this in-game is because people seem to discriminate for silly reasons.
This could be another reason for people to arbitrarily refuse other peoples requests to join parties.

I don't join big guilds because I solo alot and play at odd times with big blocks of non-activity due to strange work demands and people seem to want people who "pull weight".
I just like to "play DDO" not "pull weight".

I realize I won't have the perks of the "big guys" as far as airship amenities etc and I'm cool with that.
Their gain is NOT my loss.
But having guild renown advertised makes me feel bullied into joining a big "power guild" which I don't want to do.

I would rather not have another reason for people to filter me out of the party selection process.
It's not like being in a small guild means you are clueless like having no fort at lv 16 or something.

I'm just scared it will be used by the forces of evil.

[Potvin]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

1) It looks cheesy
2) It just presents a glaring guild e-peen contest being broadcast constantly.

I'm all for making guild ranks readily findable in game. Heck make a command people can type in and see them in a pop up or whatever. Or allow guild rank to show when they 'inspect' a person. That's fine.

[Kintro]

6) PuG discrimination. Low ranking guild members may find it more difficult to get groups (if it wasn't difficult enough already), possibly widening the new player/old player gap.

Interesting, I was wondering if it might go the other way due to the e-peen thing. Not wanting to help out "rival" guilds by taking them in your pugs.

[Lord_Ravenclaw]

/signed

Agree with a lot of reasons stated above. No need to type the same thing over and over.

[dragonmane]

/signed and /not signed. I dont care either way. I am a guild leader of a small guild for a reason. I dont really care that someone from a bigger guild gets better buffs than I do or that I will never get any of those buffs. What I care about is game play and having fun. If having a number next to my name stops me from having fun I will be right next to you, but so far it hasnt affected my game play so I could go either way. I do hope Tolero knows that maybe 30%(I am not an expert and I have not counted everyone) of the player base in using the forums and that most peoples opinions here are from the those who are very vocal about the way the game should be played. What maybe should happen is some sort of ingame survey on what people think. That would be more accurate then using the forums as a to survey what people want. This in only my opinion.

[Irinis]

/signed very emphatically

It's UGLY and breaks immersion - if I want to know a guild's renown I should be able to look it up on the leaderboard not have it in my face everywhere.

[Saiiko360]

/signed


Seriously no need to advertise to everyone what each guild's lvl is, isn't that what the bonuses at reading lvl 80 guild lvl 90 guild and lvl 100 guild are for?

( Server sends out message announcing your guild has reached x lvl )

Lets go back to the days of privacy where all it showed was the guild name. I don't want noobs or even good pros asking to join my guild just because they see an officer tag or some number above 25 cause they want to equip some loot they picked up in x dungeon but their guild lvl isn't high enough. Give the OPTION back to the PLAYERS let them decide if they wish to advertise their guild lvl ( in chat while they're recruiting or on some website or in their member profiles but don't FORCE us. )

Also I want my Reincarn wings back, you can keep that stupid "teleport" graphic that blue fuzz is useless no one notices it but the wings are a nice addtion to point out that the person has ~some~ skill. PPl like to tell me my character is uber I just point out that I've got a few more stat points than they do.


One last question why isn't the advice chat server wide? Or atleast split it between korthos and the rest of the server. Seems stupid that if you're a noob and have a question you have to go to the market or the harbor to get it answered, advice chat is pretty dead outside those two places. Seems questions end up in general or party chat constantly.

[dasein18]

/sign

Please remove the number for the guild renown. To me there is no point to this I do not care about renown of a guild. Guild renown will not replace the respect guild members gain by playing in the game world. A certain guild can have the top renown but if they treat their fellow players terrible.. well then what was the point. To me guild renown is just plain silly. Goes in same category as ice games and easter eggs hunt as it adds no value for me. Things that do not belong in DnD. If I want that type of stuff I will play my Wii games. Stop trying to be so many different things that the game gets watered down.

Keep TR wings removed. They only show that someone TR'd once. nothing about how many times, if they are good, etc. Again, I could care less and it is just a distractor. I am ok with the Adventurer, Hero, etc that at least tells me something and is not in the open all the time clutter the view. Then again we can MYDDO any toon and see if they TR'd never, once, 8 times, etc. So we do not need any of this... but I am ok (for the record) with the Adventurer, Hero, etc.

[Dark_Helmet]

It isn't that it's not feedback, it's that it is less effective. I don't expect every person to know how to write "the perfect feedback write up," nor do I expect an essay about every issue. I do like giving people tips to help their feedback go further. Telling us "no" only tells us just that. For example, right now I have people yelling at me both for, and against, the TR wings. Are we supposed to go with which side has more? It's better to have reasons on both sides, especially if compromises can be reached between the two in ways that avoid the problems that were bothering both when possible. Feedback is a "skill" (http://my.ddo.com/tolero/2009/11/08/writing-actionable-feedback/) and one that is seldom taught (for some strange reason) despite how important it is to anyone who is a consumer (i.e. most of us).

Because it is stupid? People have already posted why they don't like it and you just say "have to give feedback" when they are signing a petition saying they agree that it doesn't work. You should have made official threads asking if you like or dislike (and why) and told people to vote in them. Instead, you will have tons of these threads complaining which just feed off each other and whip up a frenzy.


Okay, you want a reason?

Using Turbine's "reasoning" for getting rid of dice (that we players are stupid): People think that number is the level of character they are looking at. You think your players are too stupid to figure out how to get 2-12 from 2D6 (which are different BTW if you ever played craps you would know), yet you expect them to look at a screen, see a number behind a character and expect them not to get confused?

Seriously.... left hand meet right hand.

Are your players stupid or are they not?

[Borror0]

part 3, especially the part about avoiding repeatable mistakes. that's a goal to shoot for right?
because i'm not seeing much success from turbine on that one.
Game design is hard. Even if the lesson is learned, it does not mean you won't commit the same mistake in the future. Often, game design is a tough balancing act between severals things that are good in moderation but bad if abused. For example, grind is beneficial in that it adds a sense of accomplishment to each task and lengthens the lifespan of the game at little cost but there is such a thing as too much grind which makes a fun task less unfun.

Knowing what works and what does not work is only part of the challenge. After, you have to find out what amount is desired for your game. And that is only after you figure out how things interact. MMOs are complicated beats with lots of interconnections where changing one thing with affect a dozen others.

Plus, sometimes it is good to break the rules. Try to approach something in an unconventional approach and try work as hard as possible to make it fun. innovations feature risk. If the game does not try to innovate or try reinvent itself, it will eventually grow stale.

That is not to say that Turbine is blameless or perfect. In fact, there are many things they do that is worth questioning. However, it is too easy to blame and much harder to be understanding. It is untrue that there has not been progress. While they do make mistake in the process, they have improved this game quite a lot from what it was four years ago. If they did not learn, they would never fix anything.

[Nezichiend]

I like it!

At least on Thelanis, I am sure there is some sort of friendly competition between high-end power gaming guilds. The guild lvl system won't breed bad feelings but more friendly competition. Seeing the guild lvl makes each member strive to be better which helps the whole guild as a whole.

If you do not like it, turn it off.
If you like it, keep it.
Do not limit my ability to use a feature that I enjoy, if you do not like it for aesthetics, you can turn it off.

[SisAmethyst]

It isn't that it's not feedback, it's that it is less effective. I don't expect every person to know how to write "the perfect feedback write up," nor do I expect an essay about every issue. I do like giving people tips to help their feedback go further. Telling us "no" only tells us just that. For example, right now I have people yelling at me both for, and against, the TR wings. Are we supposed to go with which side has more? It's better to have reasons on both sides, especially if compromises can be reached between the two in ways that avoid the problems that were bothering both when possible. Feedback is a "skill" (http://my.ddo.com/tolero/2009/11/08/writing-actionable-feedback/) and one that is seldom taught (for some strange reason) despite how important it is to anyone who is a consumer (i.e. most of us).

... giving good constructive critic is one of the hardest things to do, especially while under emotions. So sometimes it feels better to just rise a hand to give a signal but not say a word as one could have used the wrong ones. But I totally agree that from the other side of the fence one can best deal with a constructive criticism then with just a sign ...

[die]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

my reasons are this.

1. it takes away from the fantasy fill of the game for me.

2.it looks silly

3. i dont like knowing that much about another person and thier guild

4.once again it takes away from the fantasy aspect of the game. wings are one thing officer member is another . but numbers now na .. remove please. Ty and have a nice day

[Havok34]

/signed

Why. agree with many reasons already stated. I find the information absolutely useless and just clutters up the screen.

I do like names because unfortunately since we don't have a great way to change our clothing appearance some chars look the same because everyone is wearing DT armor etc.

[danzig138]

/signed
Why?



1) Aesthetics. It just looks silly.
2) E-peen measuring. Do we really need more?
3) Membership limits. Many guilds have enough publicity as it is.
4) Time consuming. I spend enough time declining folks who want to join our guild (or at least discussing with them the process). Additional publicity will exacerbate that, leaving me less time to enjoy the game.
5) Smaller guilds. Why join a guild with a low rank (even if they seemed promising?) over one with a high rank.

Probably more, but that's all immediately coming to mind.

edit:
6) PuG discrimination. Low ranking guild members may find it more difficult to get groups (if it wasn't difficult enough already), possibly widening the new player/old player gap.
That guy covered it pretty well. I don't hate that other guy's (sorry, forgot your name in the last 10 seconds) idea about it being a setting in UI settings or some such.

[Saiiko360]

. . . if you do not like it for aesthetics, you can turn it off.

Where and sign me up for that

[tihocan]

Hopefully there's an option to get rid of it (haven't checked yet).

Basically it can be useful info (for people who are curious about it), but it can also just be ugly to the eye. Let us decide!

[Bracosius]

U5 was released with a number of bugs, but lets start a petition to change a graphic effect that is meaningless. Hopefully the large amount of sigs will change the priorities of the devs to whats important, guild rank display next to our names.

/Fail

[walchnigs]

/sigh looks lame

[WolfSpirit]

I'm in agreement. The Guild Ranks were ok, I could go with or without. But SOME things should remain within the guild.
Look people, there is going to be ALOT of Pooling going on with this new (Belong to a big flashy Guild) Thing they have created. Do we REALLY want to amplify this with a Sign saying "Sign on with that guild since they have all the good stuff"?
I read the "Brainstorming" stuff behind this Rise of the Guilds idea. I think it was a good idea that got carried away. Do you guys ACTUALLY think its going to make our nice Guilds more like a family then they are? Some rewards would have been cool, but you guys went way too far. And showing a guild level to everyone is going to cause even more issues for everyone. Big guilds getting bigger, small guilds getting smaller... Pooling... People leaving their guild for other guilds, etc. All over the place. Goodbye friendly, Family like guilds...
-TR wings I liked, but SHOULD be an optional check box.

[AphexTwin]

/signed

And bring back the TR wings!

[maliusz]

/signed

[lexiagears]

/signed

[Luis_Velderve]

/signed

And bring back the TR wings!

I got to insist in the idea of having more internal guild ranks; member, officer, leader is not enough!

[Gornin]

Agreed.

1) Aesthetics. It just looks silly.
2) E-peen measuring. Do we really need more?
3) Membership limits. Many guilds have enough publicity as it is.
4) Time consuming. I spend enough time declining folks who want to join our guild (or at least discussing with them the process). Additional publicity will exacerbate that, leaving me less time to enjoy the game.
5) Smaller guilds. Why join a guild with a low rank (even if they seemed promising?) over one with a high rank.

Probably more, but that's all immediately coming to mind.

edit:
6) PuG discrimination. Low ranking guild members may find it more difficult to get groups (if it wasn't difficult enough already), possibly widening the new player/old player gap.


/signed for reasons above

[Grifarr]

/signed

For many good reasons already stated.

[Lifeblood]

For example, right now I have people yelling at me both for, and against, the TR wings. Are we supposed to go with which side has more? It's better to have reasons on both sides, especially if compromises can be reached between the two in ways that avoid the problems that were bothering both when possible. Feedback is a "skill" (http://my.ddo.com/tolero/2009/11/08/writing-actionable-feedback/) and one that is seldom taught (for some strange reason) despite how important it is to anyone who is a consumer (i.e. most of us).


how about making it something you can switch off/on per character

[gott_ist_tot]

/signed

It makes the game FEEL a little bit worse to play. My main grudge agains the tempest/monk speed reduction. I don't even care for the dps reduction. It just... makes it feel worse being in there. Same goes with the floaty numbers.

[Faelyndel]

Agreed.

1) Aesthetics. It just looks silly.
2) E-peen measuring. Do we really need more?
3) Membership limits. Many guilds have enough publicity as it is.
4) Time consuming. I spend enough time declining folks who want to join our guild (or at least discussing with them the process). Additional publicity will exacerbate that, leaving me less time to enjoy the game.
5) Smaller guilds. Why join a guild with a low rank (even if they seemed promising?) over one with a high rank.

Probably more, but that's all immediately coming to mind.

edit:
6) PuG discrimination. Low ranking guild members may find it more difficult to get groups (if it wasn't difficult enough already), possibly widening the new player/old player gap.
/signed

[IronClan]

Actually if you'd like the feedback to get further, including reasons is better.

We did to MadFloyd on the lamania forum apparently it was lost among the minimum guild level items and overpowered buff complaints that he also ignored or wrote off or in fact actually to paraphrase 'he could care less about' (in response to a very reasoned very calm post by Borroro)

anyway we tried reasoning, so now its time for good old fashioned petition.

[Dysmetria]

yeah /signed... anything that segregates the community is bad IMO. Get rid of the (adventurer) (champion) etc, as well.Yeah while we're at it, get rid of all the classes but one, and all the races but one. Get rid of just about everything and make us all the same. Because, clearly, the egos of most of the previous posters in this thread cannot handle diversity.

Alternately, change nothing and ignore these whiners. You got bigger issues and more important things to work on. Displaying the number or not won't make any difference, the guild can still brag about their guild level and the accompanying airship.

[Kemoc]

I got to insist in the idea of having more internal guild ranks; member, officer, leader is not enough!

Agreed. Need at least one rank to reward those who contribute, such as veteran, they don't need the power to boot other members, or recruit. only need a few for that. I think it is more important to know if the char you are playing with is an officer of a guild so if you like them you can ask to join. Guild renown you can look up in MyDDO, you don't need to see 12 people running around all with the same number floating above.
/signed

[Deathseeker]

/conditionally signed

I like the guild rank! But if we have a functioning leaderboard that publishes the rank, then I don't think the clutter is necessary to have it on all the floaty names.

I see many people here are providing feedback as to why they dont like the existance of a rank at all (discrimination, etc). While they are obviously very entitled to their opinions, I think this thread is getting mixed with reasons for not having a guild rank at all vs reasons to not have it in the floaty name. I am signing to remove it from the floaty name, but am NOT singing to get rid of it.

I personally like the ranking system. I like knowing which guilds are active and can achieve higher levels. Will it lead to "discrimination"? Maybe...but we already sometimes take guild into account when adding puggers. This just may highlight some guilds that were unknown before. I look forward to some friendly guild competition and rewards. Sounds fun. So please DO NOT get rid of the ranking system. But yes, if you have a functioning leaderboard, the floaty text is unnecessary.

Just curious, why are people saying having it in the floaty name will lead to not being accepted into a pug? When was the last time a pug was filled by reading peoples floaty name?

Oh, and bring back the officer/member titles and wings please :)

[Stormwine]

Agreed.

1) Aesthetics. It just looks silly.
2) E-peen measuring. Do we really need more?
3) Membership limits. Many guilds have enough publicity as it is.
4) Time consuming. I spend enough time declining folks who want to join our guild (or at least discussing with them the process). Additional publicity will exacerbate that, leaving me less time to enjoy the game.
5) Smaller guilds. Why join a guild with a low rank (even if they seemed promising?) over one with a high rank.

Probably more, but that's all immediately coming to mind.

edit:
6) PuG discrimination. Low ranking guild members may find it more difficult to get groups (if it wasn't difficult enough already), possibly widening the new player/old player gap.
1 and 6 were my main reasons but I have to agree with the rest as well

[Kromize]

/signed

we like the member, officer, Leader, please put it back

Don't say 'we' when it just isn't true. I am neutral however, and I think that guilds should be able to put in custom ranks, and showing those ranks to the public should be a guild leader option.

The guild level number should also be an option selectable by guild leader. It should range from private, to semi-public(in bio), and public.

./signed

[Hokiewa]

Normally I don't care about these issues, but after playing for a scant 30 mins; the arguements, the spamming of tells, the begging to join, the begging to go away....

It's absurd.

/signed

[darktau]

/signed

do we truely need another Epeen?

[MeliCat]

/signed

[IronClan]

Yeah while we're at it, get rid of all the classes but one, and all the races but one.

I signed on to play an RPG, that means leveling my characters, improving them, having fun, socializing etc.

I did not sign on to have my playstyle dictated to me by people who don't think my guild level is high enough to join their group.

I don't think RPG's benefit from having NUMBERS displayed next to names.

Lastely like the uber buffs and the dumb minimum guild level items, the level showing is just unnecessary and should never have gotten past a good designer's aesthetic sensibility in the first place. Why not put everyone's stats, level, BAB, to hit and damage bonus after their name? Same reason....

[DragonTKD]

/signed

[LordPiglet]

Agreed.

1) Aesthetics. It just looks silly.
2) E-peen measuring. Do we really need more?
3) Membership limits. Many guilds have enough publicity as it is.
4) Time consuming. I spend enough time declining folks who want to join our guild (or at least discussing with them the process). Additional publicity will exacerbate that, leaving me less time to enjoy the game.
5) Smaller guilds. Why join a guild with a low rank (even if they seemed promising?) over one with a high rank.

Probably more, but that's all immediately coming to mind.

edit:
6) PuG discrimination. Low ranking guild members may find it more difficult to get groups (if it wasn't difficult enough already), possibly widening the new player/old player gap.

This covers most of it. If they want a guild leader board (with ranks) give them one. Heck, put it in Korthos so new players have instant access to it and can research guilds.

[AbsynthMinded]

It isn't that it's not feedback, it's that it is less effective. I don't expect every person to know how to write "the perfect feedback write up," nor do I expect an essay about every issue. I do like giving people tips to help their feedback go further. Telling us "no" only tells us just that. For example, right now I have people yelling at me both for, and against, the TR wings. Are we supposed to go with which side has more? It's better to have reasons on both sides, especially if compromises can be reached between the two in ways that avoid the problems that were bothering both when possible. Feedback is a "skill" (http://my.ddo.com/tolero/2009/11/08/writing-actionable-feedback/) and one that is seldom taught (for some strange reason) despite how important it is to anyone who is a consumer (i.e. most of us).

I don't see anyone supporting much the currant set up though chief.. I see a wall of NO for the renown tags.. I saw a pretty fat wall of NO for a lot of this U5.. You folks have no respect for the players or the code as far as I can tell. You just make it more and more difficult for players to have respect for you all.. I didn't see any official discussions for this change or a lot of changes. But then I was expecting this kraptastic storm of chaos and discontent. I for one knew the Official Discussion was a smoke screen for all the other stuff that was coming..

Now you wanna nit pick and get details over the renown tag getting negative response from the players? Just put it back the way it was, and remember for the future, always put in a toggle, or make sure it's something the players want.

[Modinator0]

Yeah while we're at it, get rid of all the classes but one, and all the races but one. Get rid of just about everything and make us all the same. Because, clearly, the egos of most of the previous posters in this thread cannot handle diversity.

Alternately, change nothing and ignore these whiners. You got bigger issues and more important things to work on. Displaying the number or not won't make any difference, the guild can still brag about their guild level and the accompanying airship.
yeah.... you kinda missed the point a bit. diversity is great. making a unique character is great. e-peen counters and clique labels, not so much.

[ShadowHand2]

/signed.....it would be easy to grief others of lower status. Instead of bring people together I see it putting a wedge between the have's and have not's.

[Big_Russ]

Signed.

1. Looks like computer code instead of belonging in a D&D world.
2. I don't care what other guild ranks are. It is useless information.

[Eldun]

/not signed

I think instead of a number there should be a description like "Kielbasa", "Ball Park Frank", or "Cocktail weinie".

[sephiroth1084]

/not signed

I think instead of a number there should be a description like "Kielbasa", "Ball Park Frank", or "Cocktail weinie".
Someone has a wiener fixation. :rolleyes:

[AussieEngineer]

/signed

[theRolf]

/signed

[Elsbet]

Feedback is a "skill" (http://my.ddo.com/tolero/2009/11/08/writing-actionable-feedback/) and one that is seldom taught (for some strange reason) despite how important it is to anyone who is a consumer (i.e. most of us).

1. You took away one of the few remaining bits of useful information about players and guilds (their rank) and replaced it with the equivalent of a guild's phallic measurement. It is far more useful to know who the leader of a guild or who the officers are than it is to know that the guild has a discounted arcane reagent vendor on its airship. How am I supposed to know who to talk to when a player does something completely unkind/unfair/stupid as a representative of their guild? A lot of issues get resolved off the boards between guild leaders with *gasp* a conversation. It's a little hard to find those leaders and officers without their titles being displayed.

2. It's a lot of work (with good reason) to TR a toon. One of the few free, meaningless kudos you get for it is your TR wings. For some classes, the wings were more useful than the feats. They looked nice too. The number just looks stupid. Really. I know that isn't empirical, but it is true. "Archmagi, 6" Seriously, someone thought that looked like it meant something?

3. Instead of logging in and getting to play right away, now we have to make sure that we log all of our toons regularly, including our less often run ones or bank toons, lest we diminish our guild's phallic measurements. I have a couple of toons I rather like, but keep as lowbies when I want to run with friends or whatnot. I don't care much for logging in and out 7 times just to keep from getting booted from guild.

4. Guild renown is useless since it can be manufactured by running only quests with high mob spawn rates. The assault quests, Coalescence and other high kill-count quests need only be run repeatedly and guilds can jump multiple levels in hours. Essentially, one six-man party can take a guild from level one to six in half a day. Knowing that does not tell me if the guild is a powergaming guild, a raiding guild, a causal guild, or a guild full of rangers who loot the Ring of Thelis and Lorrik's Necklace just to grief the casters and healers in the group.

5. It's childish in the extreme. The "My guild is bigger than your guild. *nyah*" and "We have a bigger airship than you *neener neener neerer*" style squabbles were annoying enough when it wasn't officially endorsed by Turbine. Now we have teacher-endorsed junior high school cliques instead of guilds.

6. It penalizes people who enjoy the game more not being in a guild. I genuinely feel badly for anyone who choses to be unguilded now. They are punished in the extreme. Not only are they denied access to the perks of airships because they prefer not to join a guild, but LFMs are already noticeably leaner since guild renown. Including pugs and the unguilded means you harm your own guild. How are those people supposed to get to know about a guild and possibly join a guild when they are having an increasingly harder time getting groups? It's not like they can look at renown and know if the guild members are helpful or not.

I am not a fan of dungeon alerts, especially when they didn't work properly and went off when you walked by unbroken sarcophagi, because they didn't do anything to reduce lag (their alleged purpose) and only serve to punish people who chose not to spend hours in 15 minute quests; however,the implementation of guild housing and renown makes that look like a stroke of genius and not at all discriminatory.

Honestly, I wish I hadn't re-subbed for three months this time. In almost four years, this is the first time I've regretted the expense. That includes the six months I continued to pay, but didn't play, due to a real life crisis.

[Scarecrow9]

/signed for numbers
/signed for wings back

[Autolycus]

/signed - lose the Renown number

As for the Leader, Officer, Member designation - make it an option that each guild/user can either enable or disable.

[petegunn]

To take away someones identity you assign them a number.

[Khimberlhyte]

/signed, for many of the reasons stated above.

Guilds add flavor to the game, and to me, they are all about people associating together, whether it is for fun in exploring, to achieve a shared goal of leveling quickly, or to have a pool of known, reliable people with whom to form a party.

Enforcing universal, mandatory guild competition by displaying numbers over each character is antithetical to what I see as the purpose of a guild in a game like D&D, and I believe that it will eat away at some of the main reasons to have guilds in the first place. If a few guilds choose to compete with each other, fine. Let them look up their status in a registry somewhere, compare their e-peens, and wave them around to the few people who care about some irrelevant status.

Don't stick the e-peens for those idiots in my face. It shouldn't be on by default, or even available for display in my opinion. There is no greater good that I can see from sticking this junk over everyone's head, and plenty of potential for harm as described by other posters in this thread.

[DarkAlchemist]

/signed

[olBillDoor]

/signed

[Lleren]

/signed

Keep Member/Officer/Leader status off as well please.

[AbsynthMinded]

I say toggles and customization for all of it, and let the individual decide how their tags look.

[YakoSpiritFist]

/signed for toggles, I like the new update.
/not signed for complete removal.

[Angel_Barchild]

1. You took away one of the few remaining bits of useful information about players and guilds (their rank) and replaced it with the equivalent of a guild's phallic measurement. It is far more useful to know who the leader of a guild or who the officers are than it is to know that the guild has a discounted arcane reagent vendor on its airship. How am I supposed to know who to talk to when a player does something completely unkind/unfair/stupid as a representative of their guild? A lot of issues get resolved off the boards between guild leaders with *gasp* a conversation. It's a little hard to find those leaders and officers without their titles being displayed.

2. It's a lot of work (with good reason) to TR a toon. One of the few free, meaningless kudos you get for it is your TR wings. For some classes, the wings were more useful than the feats. They looked nice too. The number just looks stupid. Really. I know that isn't empirical, but it is true. "Archmagi, 6" Seriously, someone thought that looked like it meant something?

3. Instead of logging in and getting to play right away, now we have to make sure that we log all of our toons regularly, including our less often run ones or bank toons, lest we diminish our guild's phallic measurements. I have a couple of toons I rather like, but keep as lowbies when I want to run with friends or whatnot. I don't care much for logging in and out 7 times just to keep from getting booted from guild.

4. Guild renown is useless since it can be manufactured by running only quests with high mob spawn rates. The assault quests, Coalescence and other high kill-count quests need only be run repeatedly and guilds can jump multiple levels in hours. Essentially, one six-man party can take a guild from level one to six in half a day. Knowing that does not tell me if the guild is a powergaming guild, a raiding guild, a causal guild, or a guild full of rangers who loot the Ring of Thelis and Lorrik's Necklace just to grief the casters and healers in the group.

5. It's childish in the extreme. The "My guild is bigger than your guild. *nyah*" and "We have a bigger airship than you *neener neener neerer*" style squabbles were annoying enough when it wasn't officially endorsed by Turbine. Now we have teacher-endorsed junior high school cliques instead of guilds.

6. It penalizes people who enjoy the game more not being in a guild. I genuinely feel badly for anyone who choses to be unguilded now. They are punished in the extreme. Not only are they denied access to the perks of airships because they prefer not to join a guild, but LFMs are already noticeably leaner since guild renown. Including pugs and the unguilded means you harm your own guild. How are those people supposed to get to know about a guild and possibly join a guild when they are having an increasingly harder time getting groups? It's not like they can look at renown and know if the guild members are helpful or not.



/signed for reasons stated above

[kitsune_ko]

/signed

Elsbet, your the wind beneath my wings!

"1. You took away one of the few remaining bits of useful information about players and guilds (their rank) and replaced it with the equivalent of a guild's phallic measurement.'

pretty much sums it up right there

[anemephistus]

1. You took away one of the few remaining bits of useful information about players and guilds (their rank) and replaced it with the equivalent of a guild's phallic measurement. It is far more useful to know who the leader of a guild or who the officers are than it is to know that the guild has a discounted arcane reagent vendor on its airship. How am I supposed to know who to talk to when a player does something completely unkind/unfair/stupid as a representative of their guild? A lot of issues get resolved off the boards between guild leaders with *gasp* a conversation. It's a little hard to find those leaders and officers without their titles being displayed.

2. It's a lot of work (with good reason) to TR a toon. One of the few free, meaningless kudos you get for it is your TR wings. For some classes, the wings were more useful than the feats. They looked nice too. The number just looks stupid. Really. I know that isn't empirical, but it is true. "Archmagi, 6" Seriously, someone thought that looked like it meant something?

3. Instead of logging in and getting to play right away, now we have to make sure that we log all of our toons regularly, including our less often run ones or bank toons, lest we diminish our guild's phallic measurements. I have a couple of toons I rather like, but keep as lowbies when I want to run with friends or whatnot. I don't care much for logging in and out 7 times just to keep from getting booted from guild.

4. Guild renown is useless since it can be manufactured by running only quests with high mob spawn rates. The assault quests, Coalescence and other high kill-count quests need only be run repeatedly and guilds can jump multiple levels in hours. Essentially, one six-man party can take a guild from level one to six in half a day. Knowing that does not tell me if the guild is a powergaming guild, a raiding guild, a causal guild, or a guild full of rangers who loot the Ring of Thelis and Lorrik's Necklace just to grief the casters and healers in the group.

5. It's childish in the extreme. The "My guild is bigger than your guild. *nyah*" and "We have a bigger airship than you *neener neener neerer*" style squabbles were annoying enough when it wasn't officially endorsed by Turbine. Now we have teacher-endorsed junior high school cliques instead of guilds.

6. It penalizes people who enjoy the game more not being in a guild. I genuinely feel badly for anyone who choses to be unguilded now. They are punished in the extreme. Not only are they denied access to the perks of airships because they prefer not to join a guild, but LFMs are already noticeably leaner since guild renown. Including pugs and the unguilded means you harm your own guild. How are those people supposed to get to know about a guild and possibly join a guild when they are having an increasingly harder time getting groups? It's not like they can look at renown and know if the guild members are helpful or not.

I am not a fan of dungeon alerts, especially when they didn't work properly and went off when you walked by unbroken sarcophagi, because they didn't do anything to reduce lag (their alleged purpose) and only serve to punish people who chose not to spend hours in 15 minute quests; however,the implementation of guild housing and renown makes that look like a stroke of genius and not at all discriminatory.

Honestly, I wish I hadn't re-subbed for three months this time. In almost four years, this is the first time I've regretted the expense. That includes the six months I continued to pay, but didn't play, due to a real life crisis.

/ Signed.

My guild is three or four real life friends and their alt, toons. It was a way for us to easily find each other so we can play D&D together even though we live far apart.

I am actually very disappointed with this. I don't want a popularity contest within my favorite MMO. I just want to play and not get screwed ( for the above reasons and the many others listed). :(

+1 Elsbet thanks for doing all the work ;)

[AestorTheKnight]

/signed

IMO bring TR wings back and make the guild levels show when you examine someone. It just looks distasteful with people running around with numbers next to their names.

This! :)

/signed.

[Calebro]

The best post in this thread seems to have gotten lost in the fray, so I'll quote it right here for you all.


Options, Gameplay:

Show Guild Name [ ]
Show Guild Position [ ]
Show Guild Rank [ ]


Zaodon

Zaodon
GuildName

Zaodon
Member, GuildName

Zaodon
GuildName (5)

Zaodon
Member, GuildName (5)

[AestorTheKnight]

To take away someones identity you assign them a number.

Perfect aphorism - nicely said :)

[Cendaer]

/signed

Remove the guild level, and replace the member's rank. I find it more useful to know whether someone is a member, officer, or leader.

Also put the TR wings back.

[Kwyjibo]

Not that this will make a difference...

/signed

[HarveyMilk]

/signed

and this will work if everyone would just sign the thread. I'm sure at least 80% of the population would agree if they would just think about it.

[RJBsComputer]

/sign

[Thorin2001]

/signed

[Budnipper]

and bring back the TR wings!

/SIGNED on both counts. I want my F'in wings back!

[Ovrad]

Well we don't have any rules against non actionable threads as long as they follow all the other rules (though to clarify... in such forms it means it's less likely that the feedback is forwarded as anything other than "doesn't like" in the grand scheme of all the feedback we get...hence why including reasons is better).

It's simple enough, it's the same reasons we would not want to have a character's level, saves, BAB, favorite kind of ice cream, net annual family income, etc. floating above everyone's head:

- It's very unaesthetic.
- It clusters up the screen. (Seriously, we see those during the WHOLE quest)
- It it useless. (It doesn't tell us anything about the player worth, or even the guild worth, only that his guild is most likely big or not).
- And frankly, we don't care about his guild level!

Of course, I've got nothing against the whole guild rank system, it's just that it shouldn't be constantly shoved in my face! I'm fine with having it accessible on the examine panel.


I like it!

At least on Thelanis, I am sure there is some sort of friendly competition between high-end power gaming guilds. The guild lvl system won't breed bad feelings but more friendly competition. Seeing the guild lvl makes each member strive to be better which helps the whole guild as a whole.

If you do not like it, turn it off.
If you like it, keep it.
Do not limit my ability to use a feature that I enjoy, if you do not like it for aesthetics, you can turn it off.

Yes I'm all for putting an option for it, but right now, the only option is either completely removing the guild names, or having guild AND floating phallic numbers over people's head.

At the very least give us the options for each : guild names, title (officer, member, leader), useless epeen numbers.

[taurean430]

/signed

[Shadhe]

/signed

[Dendrix]

agreed

[Jetsu]

/signed

I want my officer title back, not a number.

[SirShen]

It isn't that it's not feedback, it's that it is less effective. I don't expect every person to know how to write "the perfect feedback write up," nor do I expect an essay about every issue. I do like giving people tips to help their feedback go further. Telling us "no" only tells us just that. For example, right now I have people yelling at me both for, and against, the TR wings. Are we supposed to go with which side has more? It's better to have reasons on both sides, especially if compromises can be reached between the two in ways that avoid the problems that were bothering both when possible. Feedback is a "skill" (http://my.ddo.com/tolero/2009/11/08/writing-actionable-feedback/) and one that is seldom taught (for some strange reason) despite how important it is to anyone who is a consumer (i.e. most of us).

Then just put in an option like the dragonmark were you can see it or not see it. Do it with all options, like guild level, TR wings. Its that simple. Give players an option instead of forcing them into one thing.

Find it very funny that i pay to play a game not to spend hours giving feedback about things that we didnt ask for but we get anyway. SO most of the time i think whats the point no one cares or listens. That also goes for bug reports that iv done but they still make it live.

[Bart_D]

/Signed

Nothing good will come of it. If there is a need for "mine is bigger than yours"-contests, make a listing of guilds with statistics available somehow. Maybe a a Plaque of Guilds somewhere in harbor or MyDDO, but not branded onto every character.

[MIssAthena]

/signed

[SisAmethyst]

... about the possibility to toggle, well, there are 2 different ways

either:
- your own view (so what is displayed for you) or
- how others see you (disable the guild level display for others)

So the question is already which toggle version.

I like the remark from someone who said

"...we even don't have player level, the BAB, AC, Family Status or favoured Ice Cream shwon in the titel..."

So why it was necessary to add THIS information on top of each players head? You can see usually all the necessary information in the players vita if you click on examine. That is more then enough and look (at least in my opinion) far better then all this numerical additions that just not fit to the flavour of this game.

The additional information of the Rank had at least a valuable information as this could tell you who can invite me or who I can ask about Guild concerns.

It's indeed nice to have an option to know which guild has which level, but I think those kind of information belongs to the global guild board that we still miss!

So why not add a new Tab in the Social Panel where we finally can search for Guilds, getting the name of the Leader for contacts and there you can as well put in the guild level and maybe other optional information like guild size, creation date and flags like if they actually recruite or not. THAT would be a productive information valuable for nearly everybody, but that number (exceept for some kind of prepubertal measuring) is plain needless in the title.

[Maxelcat]

/signed

[Rabbi_Hordo]

/signed

[Serafyna]

/signed

I think they should add the toggle feature. Allowing guild masters to choose if they show the renown rank or not. I think the same is true for people's status in guild. Why must everything be all or nothing?

[systemstate]

/signed

I really see no use for this feature at all. I'd like TR wings back to boot.

[Romak]

/signed

[Grecan]

Very simple, If you hate that guild level number next to your guilds name just sign.


DONT explain, just sign
/signed

i don't like it at all

[Chaosprism]

Yeah I wouldn't put the guild rank in the floaty above heads.

You can keep it in the examine window where it tells you what guild they are from anyway.


Knowing if somebody is a leader , officer (or whatever named rank they have when that bug is fixed with changerankname) is better anyway.

[AbsynthMinded]

So... Think we've made the point, or do we need more details about how this added feature ( without toggles ) blows?

[Meru_Lee]

/signed

[Belvino]

/signed

Give the Charaters some Red BUll

[dpadan17]

/signed

[RBShiva]

/signed

[Pugulist]

/signed

[loki_3369]

/Signed.

Although i doubt this petition will do much. I agree with Zaodan's suggestion, along with the others who suggested putting in an option for such things. Also, I want my TR wings back!


Options, Gameplay:

Show Guild Name [ ]
Show Guild Position [ ]
Show Guild Rank [ ]


Zaodon

Zaodon
GuildName

Zaodon
Member, GuildName

Zaodon
GuildName (5)

Zaodon
Member, GuildName (5)

[Rafal]

For example, right now I have people yelling at me both for, and against, the TR wings. Are we supposed to go with which side has more? It's better to have reasons on both sides, especially if compromises can be reached between the two in ways that avoid the problems that were bothering both when possible.

That's an easy issue. Just add an option to turn it on/off per character and all are happy. Let some hide the fact they are on a 5th TR if they want to.

[Scriplin]

/signed

[Frodo_Lives]

/signed

[binnsr]

/signed

[Oeuf]

/signed

I've been out of junior high school for way too long to have to deal with this kind of infantile, cliquish labeling again.

It's one thing to be in a guild and run with people you enjoy running with. It is something entirely different to legitimize petty ****ing contests.

*sigh* This used to be a game adults could enjoy WITHOUT dev-sanctioned prepubescent drama.

Totally agree. I joined DDO as the first ever MMO I played because of it being an
adaptation of Dungeons and Dragons. With each coming month it becomes more and
more an adaptation of the game which will be nameless. We're losing all the old D'n'D
players for the new crop of MMO FPS players.

:cool:

[Grecan]

I've already signed, but i have something to add.

On the one hand, we have those ugly numbers above our heads, instead of our guild status (and this irritates me though i'm only a member).

And on the other hand, we have a whole (i'll say it politely) mechanism designated to retrieving information about other characters, players, and guilds, which is called myDDO, but it's not possible to view a guild's level through it.

Why? Oh, why? Can't you see you're doing it the wrong way?

[Redlotusninjagrl]

/signed

[hdogan]

/signed

[hkusp45]

/Signed

[Ormindo]

/signed

I'm fed up of those PMs...

[thestonedone]

/signed

TR wings back please.

[AzureWolf]

/signed

[Yavool]

/signed

reasons:
1. the numbers will create the imaginary need to join larger guilds which probably works contradictonary to the social aspect
2. numbers will create false impressions 'ahhh see this lvl 20 noob in a level 2 guild' as it is sad but true, that it is a common human nature to judge by first impression... independent of individual exceptions
3. guild levels creates an unnecessary pressure on guild achievements which may be the death for a lot of small guilds (how likely is it that someone join a lvl 50+ guild rather a new lvl 1 guild?)
4. After a while it will get hard for new players to create an own Guild as they have to visibly compete against the higher numbers (see 3)
5. I want to be judged by my matters and how good I play my characters rather by the level of my guild
6. there is no need to always show the numbers as after a while the top ten guilds are known regardless of number spam ;)
7. some people who create a guild just for the family or just to stop that random blind invites but may already play since ages and achieved some levels and suddenly been begged for invites
8. rank names give hints who I can ask e.g. for an invite or for internal guild matters
9. it is an esthetically question as the TR wings and the names just look nicer

Don't get me wrong, me and I guess most people here like to have their guild to reach a high level, but we can see that pretty much on the guild page, together with our special achievements that the level brings with.

+1 /signed

[Ghoste]

This update has been a HUGE step towards making guilds more closed off.

Not quite as noticeable right away since there was so much interaction between guilds before the update, but I imagine we'll see less and less of that now.

Of course people will keep in touch with friends, but what I'm really talking about is new players. They'll have much less chance to group casually with different guilds to get to know them better. You're pretty much funneling them all into the really big guilds which may have great "renown" but often low reputation with many players, which will only serve to further isolate them from other guild choices.

For new players in particular, this has definitely been the "anti-guild" update.

[binnsr]

This update has been a HUGE step towards making guilds more closed off.

Not quite as noticeable right away since there was so much interaction between guilds before the update, but I imagine we'll see less and less of that now.

Of course people will keep in touch with friends, but what I'm really talking about is new players. They'll have much less chance to group casually with different guilds to get to know them better. You're pretty much funneling them all into the really big guilds which may have great "renown" but often low reputation with many players, which will only serve to further isolate them from other guild choices.

For new players in particular, this has definitely been the "anti-guild" update.

well stated.

[Bigrtt]

/Signed. It means nothing except to show off a guild. Bring back TR wings, bring back the officer/leader/member part. Much more useful.

[DaggomaticDwarf]

make me feel small and insignificant :(

[Pyromaniac]

/not signed. Didn't the OP quit the game in a thread a couple days back?

[IronClan]

/not signed. Didn't the OP quit the game in a thread a couple days back?

Who cares can you not separate the issue from the OP?

[MIssAthena]

I used to actually take note of folks names, ranks and guilds. Now my eye is drawn to that **** number. My main is in a tiny guild that's at rank 2, being that I'm the only active player at the moment. Other players don't know that though, they will assume the worst. And I don't care to be swallowed up by a big guild. Does that mean I won't get ML 25 gear or hang out on an airship anytime soon? Yes..but I'm okay with it. Logging in and being greeted by name and having fun with my friends is why I play this game.

I've got more complaints but the majority of them have been covered by the others that have signed this thread. I'm hoping the devs strongly consider our thoughts on the subject.

I am tired of running around feeling shamefaced because of this pointless floatie, please give us the option to turn it OFF.

[Fenrisulven6]

/signed

In your toon's bio it states your guild. Why cant they simply pull the renown rank and add it in there?


myDDO, but it's not possible to view a guild's level through it.

Are you sure? If I check out my toon on DDO, there's an icon that shows what her guild is. If I click on that Guild icon it shows me the Guild, its members, and renown level.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you can only view your own guild rank via MyDDO. But try it and see.

/edit: nm, it shows everything but renown rank.

Chapterhouse
"[not set]"
Server: Thelanis
Size: 4
Recruiting: Yes
Leader: Caus

[donfilibuster]

They can put the guild level next to the guild name but can't make a list of guilds to show that same info.
And the who list already list guild name of all players visible, therefore is also possible to have a list of guilds.
Furthermore amont all the various listings of DDO the who list is one that is actually searchable, by player name and level.
A guild rank list has to be coded separately but is no rocket science considering what is already implemented.

[Maxmillian]

/signed, toggle it like guild names

[Deanarth]

/signed

[Pyromaniac]

Who cares can you not separate the issue from the OP?

Actually I did. I don't agree with removing guild level from guild names. Not everyone has to agree with something, what fun would that be.

I also find it amusing the the OP ragequit a few days ago then posted this thread. Here's the rage quit thread where the OP promises not to participate in the forums...http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=258428. Its not the reason why I disagree with the OPs suggestion, just a separate point.

[Rumbaar]

/signed


Guild level is nothing but e-peen. For new/old players having a number next to a person might indicate they are falsely 'renown' than say a better manned guild. It servers to possibly give large spam invite guilds a false indicator to new players that they are a better guild than a smaller more true server known guild. But I guess this is more of a design flaw by Turbine than the indicator.

Knowing someone is a Officer or Leader is far more important to a user.

TR wings? Hello, moving that indicator to a 'z' check for the textual indicator is silly. Who can notice the 'pixel' size difference?!

[Big_Russ]

ePeen indeed.

Plus, the more I look at the new name blocks over peoples' heads, the uglier it looks. I hope this is gone by next mod.

[IronClan]

Actually I did. I don't agree with removing guild level from guild names. Not everyone has to agree with something, what fun would that be.

I also find it amusing the the OP ragequit a few days ago then posted this thread. Here's the rage quit thread where the OP promises not to participate in the forums...http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=258428. Its not the reason why I disagree with the OPs suggestion, just a separate point.

Fair enough seemed like you were lumping the issue in with the OP... I agree it's pretty silly to claim to quit and then keep posting...

Then again I noticed a couple very vocal TWF nerf types who claimed they would quit if the nerf went through actually had the foresight to make all their MyDDO characters private, so they could still play while they pretend to be "quit".

[stockwizard5]

/signed

[AbsynthMinded]

Fair enough seemed like you were lumping the issue in with the OP... I agree it's pretty silly to claim to quit and then keep posting...

Then again I noticed a couple very vocal TWF nerf types who claimed they would quit if the nerf went through actually had the foresight to make all their MyDDO characters private, so they could still play while they pretend to be "quit".

I never offer to /ragequit or /happyquit either. I make my posts, say what I have to say and if I go, I'll just be gone..

[Aurora1979]

I dont really see the big deal here.

Renown numbers or officer/ leader status, TR wings.... TBH i dont see how anyone can claim that one of these is an E-peen display while the other two aren't. AFAICT they are all designed so other people konw about your progress within the game.

/not signed...... yet.... / signed too.......

I dont really care either way :) smallest issue with the update as far as in concerned.