RIP the PALADIN IS OFFICALLY DONE!

[freelove]

So no proc on moving THF - RIP
Worst connection rate off hand 55% (ranger tempest III 95%) - RIP
Changing the double smite/sacrifice rate to a chance to double strike in main hand (like 10%)

Already challenged DPS you must grind for to get to where a barb is naturally

IT was nice know ing you my pally I wasted so much time farming gear for - R.I.P.

According DPS lag fix according to Eladrin himself! And no response to multiple posts by many that rogues/pally's/bards will take a major hit!

That was a waste of 9 months of my life running epic etc.

Hey DDO just call WoW (40 man raids) DAoC (100+ person PvP) EG (40 person raids) and ask them how they deal with lag instead of trying to fix broken programing instead of starting over


BYE BYE cruel world

and yes that was free love

moving on to a game that gets it that I have played before (WoW,DAoC,EQ).

and as to my signature that means a game that gives back too.

[Visty]

Worst connection rate off hand 55% (ranger tempest III 95%) - RIP
get your numbers right and try again

[jjflanigan]

Wow no longer does 40 man raids.

[Eladiun]

Do the right thing...go to Korthos and donate your stuff to lowbies.

[Primalhowl]

Did you really have to repost what you already said in another thread?

Oh yeah... and DOOOOOooooooOOOoOOOOOOOooooom!!!1!!!!!111!!

[Halock]

You're numbers are off, though i do agree that the changes are unfun :(, much moreso at the lower levels.

[systemstate]

Did you really have to repost what you already said in another thread?

Oh yeah... and DOOOOOooooooOOOoOOOOOOOooooom!!!1!!!!!111!!

Bah! I was really hoping this could be my first ever dooooooooom response... But you beat me to it.

I need to be quicker next time.

[justagame]

You're numbers are off, though i do agree that the changes are unfun :(, much moreso at the lower levels.

The "numbers" are right on as far as THF is concerned. Counting the 7d6 kotc and capstone damage, glancing blows are about 27% of damage assuming 30-32 STR (without rage or potions), divine favor, and divine might III. For everything but raid boss beatdowns, that's gone.

And I hope that the nerf to the mobs affected by censure demons is a bug, but even if it isn't, I just wasted nearly all of my melee playing time building, crafting, and binding stuff to a toon that is now all but useless.

[Scalion]

Worst connection rate off hand 55% (ranger tempest III 95%) - RIP



20% no TWF feats
40% TWF
60% Improved TWF
80% Greater TWF
Where the heck did you get 55% out of a pally?
Maybe a ranger tempest 1/monk/pally or some such? which is probably not that great a build anyway.


There is one thing to complain about, and that is not being able to time your smit evils to guarantee a chance at using them twice, but I'm pretty sure they still trigger on the offhand attack if it procs, so no need to time it at all.

[Donnie]

Those overpowered bastards needed to be nerfed!!!!

[KoboldKiller]

Use a shield and switch to Khopesh.

[Robi3.0]

Wow no longer does 40 man raids, for now...

fixed it for ya. :)

I really don't have anything else constructive to add. :(

[freelove]

here yah go from eladrin himself

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=251248

and just ran an epic arena and had a

NOTICABLE difference in dps

If you do not have a twf paladin to run then why do you quote on here?

You did not think I have ran WoW in the last year or so I would never cheat on my first mistress

BUT I AM DUMPING HER!

BYE BYE DDO this is another lazy easy for you fix to a real problem - like so many before I have noticed.

Like hey will this fix the problem with client information exchange if someone dc's in a raid? Nooooooo

[KKDragonLord]

Those overpowered bastards needed to be nerfed!!!!

Lol good one. :p

At least i chose to be a pally (some odd 2 years ago) to be a pally, so whatever changes they make it wont matter that much to me, but it does suck to be nerfed when my class has always been behind the curve since when i started playing.

[Visty]

here yah go from eladrin himself

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=251248

and just ran an epic arena and had a

NOTICABLE difference in dps

If you do not have a twf paladin to run then why do you quote on here?

You did not think I have ran WoW in the last year or so I would never cheat on my first mistress

BUT I AM DUMPING HER!

BYE BYE DDO this is another lazy easy for you fix to a real problem - like so many before I have noticed.

Like hey will this fix the problem with client information exchange if someone dc's in a raid? Nooooooo

so you still rely on the 55%?

if so, once again you fail

see the other thread for the reason

[Deathseeker]

-1 for posting incorrect information (55%) and then reposting it in two threads. At least go back and edit out the incorrect portion so you can rely on your main point (even if it is debatable at best).

[Thrudh]

here yah go from eladrin himself

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=251248

and just ran an epic arena and had a

NOTICABLE difference in dps

If you do not have a twf paladin to run then why do you quote on here?

You did not think I have ran WoW in the last year or so I would never cheat on my first mistress

BUT I AM DUMPING HER!

BYE BYE DDO this is another lazy easy for you fix to a real problem - like so many before I have noticed.

Like hey will this fix the problem with client information exchange if someone dc's in a raid? Nooooooo

Okay, read the chart RIGHT BELOW the first chart with the 55% number...

See the one where Eladrin says, "thanks for all the input... here are the new numbers"

Right there, in the same post you quoted, is the 80% you get for having GTWF

Epic fail indeed

[Borror0]

Hey DDO just call WoW (40 man raids) DAoC (100+ person PvP) EG (40 person raids) and ask them how they deal with lag instead of trying to fix broken programing instead of starting over
It's easy: none of these games have collision detection. Oops.

[Plutocracy]

I have now seen a hysterical U5 post for END OF "X" class for 1) rogues 2) monks 3) fighters 4) rangers 5) paladins 6) bards 7) wizards 8) sorcs 9) barbarians.

Go clerics and FvS! (unless I've missed some whiners there, I apologize if I have).

If that many classes all feel the dooooooommmm crunch looks like it was a nerf, but a well balanced nerf that hit everyone across the board, including enemies, so good. With all the seemingly soul crushing nerfage, maybe Tear of Dhaakan needs that shrine boost afterall. :rolleyes:.

[Fomori]

That was a waste of 9 months of my life running epic etc.
BTW, that happened even if your class would not have been 'nerfed'

Nice try though playing the time card. Just because you spent that time and got nothing out of it doesnt mean you deserve something for that time.

[Scalion]

I have now seen a hysterical U5 post for END OF "X" class for 1) rogues 2) monks 3) fighters 4) rangers 5) paladins 6) bards 7) wizards 8) sorcs 9) barbarians.

Go clerics and FvS! (unless I've missed some whiners there, I apologize if I have).

If that many classes all feel the dooooooommmm crunch looks like it was a nerf, but a well balanced nerf that hit everyone across the board, including enemies, so good. With all the seemingly soul crushing nerfage, maybe Tear of Dhaakan needs that shrine boost afterall. :rolleyes:.

Even though I don't really play cleric or FvS, I'm tempted to make a Doooom post about them after reading this.

[Memnir]

.
.
.
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad116/Memnir/-fail_thread.jpg
.
.
.
/moving on with my life

[MsEricka]

That was a waste of 9 months of my life running epic etc.

Fail


Join Date: Nov 2009

That would be 7 months, and I guarantee you that you weren't level 20 for all 7 months.

[Dilgar]

Join dates don't mean anything. I was playing when level 10 was cap.

[justagame]

I have now seen a hysterical U5 post for END OF "X" class for 1) rogues 2) monks 3) fighters 4) rangers 5) paladins 6) bards 7) wizards 8) sorcs 9) barbarians.

Go clerics and FvS! (unless I've missed some whiners there, I apologize if I have).

If that many classes all feel the dooooooommmm crunch looks like it was a nerf, but a well balanced nerf that hit everyone across the board, including enemies, so good. With all the seemingly soul crushing nerfage, maybe Tear of Dhaakan needs that shrine boost afterall. :rolleyes:.

It's hardly an across the board balancing. My tempest II ranger, whom I'm still levelling, took a hit, but an acceptable one. My capped THF KOTC paladin simply isn't playable.

[Visty]

It's hardly an across the board balancing. My tempest II ranger, whom I'm still levelling, took a hit, but an acceptable one. My capped THF KOTC paladin simply isn't playable.

tempest 2 actually wasnt hit at all as befor u5 it had 100%mainhand/100%offhand with gtwf and with U5 its 100%/100% too

[Svetelana]

That was a waste of 9 months of my life running epic etc.



You could have had a baby by now freelove....

[SisAmethyst]

It's easy: none of these games have collision detection. Oops.

lol +1

... well but you know, its day one after an update, that means DooOO00ooMMmm ... according to the OP I have to bury my Paladin now, even if I enjoy the doublestrike ...

[sacredtheory]

My capped THF KOTC paladin simply isn't playable.

Elaborate on this please

[Primalhowl]

It's hardly an across the board balancing. My tempest II ranger, whom I'm still levelling, took a hit, but an acceptable one. My capped THF KOTC paladin simply doesn't have an easy button anymore.

There. Fixed that for you. Although I'm unclear how not having glancing blows while moving invalidates a character. It may do less damage, but that just means you need 5 swings instead of 4 to kill things.

Learn to adapt. Otherwise you're gonna end up like the dinosaurs...

[Boromirs]

Elaborate on this please

Its is 55% for him because it is impossible to pick up anymore feats to raise it on a paladin. Paladins lack feats even when going "normal" THF. TWF on a paladin is extremely difficult.

[SisAmethyst]

...

Go clerics and FvS! (unless I've missed some whiners there, I apologize if I have).

...

/ironic on

... you know, that new aura totally sucks, is the total failure and the doom for each healer, they really have a reason to complain!!!

/ironic off

[Visty]

Its is 55% for him because it is impossible to pick up anymore feats to raise it on a paladin. Paladins lack feats even when going "normal" THF. TWF on a paladin is extremely difficult.

it cant be 55% for him as theres no way to get to that number

its either 20%, 40%, 60& or 80%, depending on your feats

[justagame]

There. Fixed that for you. Although I'm unclear how not having glancing blows while moving invalidates a character. It may do less damage, but that just means you need 5 swings instead of 4 to kill things.

Learn to adapt. Otherwise you're gonna end up like the dinosaurs...

Easy button? Wow, that's pretty condescending, not to mention presumptuous. What exactly makes one class's PRE an easy button?

[SisAmethyst]

There. Fixed that for you. Although I'm unclear how not having glancing blows while moving invalidates a character. It may do less damage, but that just means you need 5 swings instead of 4 to kill things.

Learn to adapt. Otherwise you're gonna end up like the dinosaurs...

... IIRC the Devs even wrote that this is probably a temporary change as they actually rewrote big parts of the combat engine and the collision detection used for the glancing blows on movements just not fit in there ...

... and just for the records about the nerf:


Currently a single two weapon fighting attack makes a physics detection check with your main hand, followed by a second detection check for your off hand...Instead of making multiple physics checks... now make a single check for your main hand attack, and would “piggyback” on that detection check and have a chance to proc (trigger) an off-hand attack...Having more TWF feats increases the % chance of proccing an off-hand attack.
...
A character with a double strike chance has a chance to make an additional attack roll with their main hand weapon any time they make a main hand attack, on the target of the first attack. (Note that two handed weapons count as “in the main hand” for these purposes.)

The Fighter Alacrity capstone, and the Paladin spell Zeal would be changed to a +10% bonuses to double strike.
...
For a future update, we’re considering revisiting some old items (such as Jorgundal’s Collar, which currently doesn’t stack with Haste) and replacing the effects with a double strike effect.

...double strikes, like the proposed off-hand attacks, would bypass the additional physics detects and secondary characteristics of normal attacks such as glancing blows, while still providing an increase to overall damage over time...(Warchanters, for instance, are likely to end up with a double strike song in a future update.)

...
I won’t hide that these proposed changes do reduce the effectiveness of off-hand attacks, which reduces the two weapon fighting style’s extreme dominance over two handed fighting...

It’s likely that we’ll change Glancing Blows to operate in a similar manner in the future as well ...

We're currently thinking of adjusting the numbers to:



Doublestrike Bonus Main hand Off hand
No feats 0 20% 100% 20%
TWF 0 +20% 100% 40%
ITWF 0 +20% 100% 60%
GTWF 0 +20% 100% 80%
Tempest I 0 +10% 100% 90%
Tempest II 0 +10% 100% 100%
Tempest III +5%* 0 105% 100%
Wind IV +10% 0 110% 80%
Zeal +10% 0 110% 80%
Alacrity +10% 0 110% 80%
* Only when wielding two weapons.

All of the bottom rows assume that the person has GTWF.

[justagame]

Elaborate on this please

Gladly. Popular opinion has held that the "nerf" in this update was mainly TWF, and that the THF change was only a minor one, and only affected "twitching".

Not so, when you consider 2 factors:

1. KOTC pallys and frenzied barbs have 7d6 and 6d6 damage that procs on glancing blows. Every glancing blow.
2. With the exception of raid boss beatdowns, you are frequently moving, twitching or not. You move to chase down mobs. Mobs themselves move, and hop around. You move to evade and avoid blows, or to flank. You'd be surprise how often a normally played THF toon moves (again, not counting "twitching").

So for a 30-32 STR KOTC pally, with divine favor and divine might running, assuming a greensteel weapon, glancing blows are going to be as much as 40% of your total damage, counting the capstone and KOTC damage -- and remember, glancing blows also apply to your main target. So if you're moving AT ALL -- that's 20% to 30% of your damage gone, depending on the percentage of swings you WOULD have gotten glancing blows on. That's a much bigger nerf than, say, a tempest III is getting. But more than just the numbers, it pretty much forces you to change your playstyle in a way that TWF's don't.

Furthermore, the nerf just laid waste to an entire feat chain. TWF gives offhand blows. Those increase as you move up the feat chain. Sure, they got nerfed, but they're still there. The THF chain improved your glancing blows. GTHF specifically gave more moving glancing blows. This isn't a nerf, it's completely blowing away a playstyle, for 2 class PRE's specifically.

And for those who smugly stated 'adapt', other builds don't have to. I have a tempest II that got a minor, modest nerf -- but I don't have to change the way it's played. I can still move, and do the same damage I would have otherwise. The THF KOTC pally can't (and this also applies to frenzied barbs).

The other KOTC benefit allowed you to stun evil outsiders. I used this all the time, it was very useful. You had to balance it against the number of divine mights you used, but it was a big help.

So I stand by my original assertion -- this toon simply isn't effective.

[HallowedOne]

The self-healing AC tank paladin took a pretty big hit as well:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=257968

In short:

CE makes you unable to cast spells for 16 seconds
while on CE, sp cost is doubled. Maximize+Quicken+Cure serious = 120 sp


U5 made another pally victim.

[Boromirs]

Elaborate on this please

Casters made out okay, pale master if bug free is pretty decent PrE. Tempest rangers made out pretty nicely too, they still retained much of their DPS pre/post U5. Clerics got a slight boost on their PrE. S&B users, especially the dwarven kind, made out like gangbusters...very nice they needed it. Rogues also got some very nice stuff. Everyone else got the shaft though.

[Primalhowl]

And for those who smugly stated 'adapt', other builds don't have to.

This update. Other builds don't have to this update.

It seems like every update hits a different build or two. You have four choices: reincarnate into something different, scrap it and roll a new one, adapt to the new conditions, or whine about it like a 4 year old. Three of those things are productive. I'll let you figure out which isn't.

There is nothing smug about my comment to adapt. I have been here since near the beginning and had more toons become "suboptimal" due to game changes than I can remember. So when I say adapt, I am simply giving practiced advice.

And finally, to quote the OP's rather apropos username, remember this is "just a game," eh?

[Primalhowl]

CE makes you unable to cast spells for 16 seconds



Okay. I can give you that one. That is pretty lame. But if it weren't for that, the change to CE isn't bad. You would still have the option to turn it off to cast. But you wouldn't have to...

One question: Does CE still drop off when using wands or other similar activities? Because if not, this is a net positive IMO.

[justagame]

This update. Other builds don't have to this update.

It seems like every update hits a different build or two. You have four choices: reincarnate into something different, scrap it and roll a new one, adapt to the new conditions, or whine about it like a 4 year old. Three of those things are productive. I'll let you figure out which isn't.

There is nothing smug about my comment to adapt. I have been here since near the beginning and had more toons become "suboptimal" due to game changes than I can remember. So when I say adapt, I am simply giving practiced advice.

And finally, to quote the OP's rather apropos username, remember this is "just a game," eh?

"Whining like a 4-year old?" -- I was asked to elaborate on the opinion that a particular toon was un-playable, and I did.

And I agree with you in that the solution here is either re-incarnating, scrapping, or re-rolling. But that's not 'adapting' a character. That's tossing it and starting over. IMHO, that is bad policy. A nerf that means some equipment or weapons are more or less useful than others? Adapt by carrying different gear. A nerf that means that some spells are now more or less powerful than others? Adapt by carrying different spells. But this one means that in order to go back to having a truly effective melee character, the only realistic options involve starting over.

And in my opinion, game changes that require that kind of 'adapting' are unwise.

[SisAmethyst]

...KOTC pallys and frenzied barbs have 7d6 and 6d6 damage that procs on glancing blows. Every glancing blow...

... fine but you act like as if ALL glancing blows suddenly have vanished, that would mean you constantly move and never ever even stand a second still which as well mean that you would have a constant -4 penalty due to movement anyway. Still you got additional double strike that even can double crit. and the double strike option on a glancing blow that as well can double crit.
Glancing Blows are still existing, except if you really just zerk through the whole dungeon without a stop in red dungeon alert and don't get the mobs anymore killed by just running past them. Well but the Devs not designed the Quest to be run like that ...
I know mobs moving especially those spiders, trolls and undead like to hope around you but just turning around 180° does not invalidate the glancing blow and a two handed weapon usually has a good enough range that you still get them...
Yes, they got nerfed (like nearly everybody), yes nerfs suck, but that will not stop 99% of the players to still play their Character nor it is the end of the world ... it is, just a game

[ColinQ]

Even though I don't really play cleric or FvS, I'm tempted to make a Doooom post about them after reading this.

With all the drop in DPS, we can no longer 1 round Harry..need more hjeal…need to drink pot…DOOM!!!1111!111

there you go

[Spiffyspiffy]

RIP the PALADIN IS OFFICIALLY DONE

Yours may be, I'm still happy with mine and he's probably the only melee I'll continue playing. I've played and passed up on ranger, barb, and fighter. Not interesting.


The self-healing AC tank paladin took a pretty big hit as well

Isn't the fact that epic makes AC utterly worthless to get above 0 thus "hitting" such a build?

[HallowedOne]

You can cast it from wands while on CE. No double charge cost.

I disagree with sp cost. Before U5, u could turn on CE and cast the healing spell. You'd lose the AC for a while but you could just SB while waiting to use it again.

Now, turning on CE will double SP cost AND prevent spellcasting for 15 seconds. So you're a self-healing tank, you suddenly you take some blows. 3 scenarios:
Edit: explaining myself better:
1) If you had CE on, you're healing will cost double points... bad

2) If you want to enter CE after the healing, you'll have to wait 15 seconds to be able to cast spells again. What if you need the healing again in those 15 seconds?

3) If you don't use CE... well, I have my Chaterring Ring, DT armor, 4 insight GS weapon, Torc, Conc Opp, Syberis Set since I started playing, right?

[Wheatbread]

Blame the Twitch Exploiters.

[dopamine]

listen to all of you cry, over a game?! lol keep going this is funny

[Stamp3de]

Lol u guys love to overreact. Devs said they'll most likely bring glancing blows while moving back with a % chance of going off. To say THF Pallies are dead is rediculous. All THF took a hit. So if u were second place dps before u still are now.

[Borror0]

People who complain about paladins being nerfed should have played a paladin from Module 4 to Module 8. That sucked.

[Seelowe]

also, people should avoid creating multiple threads of the same faulty numbers.
or go smite the evil monkey and get it out of their system.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk186/mastateef/EvilMonkey03copy.jpg

[Ranmaru2]

Isn't the fact that epic makes AC utterly worthless to get above 0 thus "hitting" such a build?

Boy this thread is so full of fail that this is just icing on the cake, but I must point this out as being a special kind of stupid.

78 AC in VoN epics = barely touched. 80+ in Desert epics is about a displacement's chance or better of damage elimination, but NOOOOO people are too stupid to tell the difference between getting clobbered for 60-90 on one hit and getting hit for 35 from a grazing hit!

[jwelch]

here yah go from eladrin himself

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=251248

and just ran an epic arena and had a

NOTICABLE difference in dps

If you do not have a twf paladin to run then why do you quote on here?

You did not think I have ran WoW in the last year or so I would never cheat on my first mistress

BUT I AM DUMPING HER!

BYE BYE DDO this is another lazy easy for you fix to a real problem - like so many before I have noticed.

Like hey will this fix the problem with client information exchange if someone dc's in a raid? Nooooooo

pro tip: posting more than 1 message about how you're leaving and never coming back turns you into a twihard crying because the movie didn't change the book, and jacob doesn't get laid.

if you don't agree with the changes, and can't live with them, cool. some folks can, some can't. such is life. but crying and hiding in your room? it is a bit much.