Its about to go live, we need to know now...

[Whippy]

We have been told that accounts, not alts will count towards guild decay but the question thats been asked many times that hasn't been answered yet, as far as i'm aware, is are inactive accounts going to count too? Do I have to boot out my guildies who are currently taking a break due to a real life issue or currently serving in Iraq to avoid our guilds decaying??

Update 5 is about to go live, so come on dev's don't beat around the bush anymore... we need to know the answer! :)

[Maxelcat]

I already did the house cleaning just in case.

If they come back and want to play they just let me know.

[Whippy]

I already did the house cleaning just in case.

If they come back and want to play they just let me know.

Yup I guess i'm gonna do it when I log in, was just hoping there would be something in the release notes, but no such luck.

[Elfvyra]

Boot 'em. Their acc't will count towards your number(s) and drag you down like the dead weight they are.... ;)

[Xeraphim]

Boot 'em. Their acc't will count towards your number(s) and drag you down like the dead weight they are.... ;)

Wait... this is one of the mechanics I did not test on Lama or even try to concern myself with...

We have folks in our guild that currently take business trips, vacations, go out of state or even out of country to take care of things, and generally don't log in for a year or more on occasion.

If this becomes a competetive mechanic, the Guild mechanic in general will become a point of failure for DDO in general, by alienating Casual players abroad.

We'd rather welcome back an old friend that didn't log in for a year than to find out they logged in and were booted for some idiotic competitive reason, and left due to the grief of having been abandoned, with not enough incentive to actually play much.

That important "Welcome back, bro!" factor is crucial for retention.

[Dysmetria]

Boot 'em. Their acc't will count towards your number(s) and drag you down like the dead weight they are.... ;)If we boot them as soon as we login will we still get their decay for the whole first day or week or however long the period is?

[SINIBYTE]

Where can I read what this new guild stuff is about?

I can understand rewarding players for activity - but punishing players for inactivity? That's about the quickest way to alienate a large portion of the playerbase and would be a huge detriment to the social aspect of casual players and small guilds.

[Whippy]

Wait... this is one of the mechanics I did not test on Lama or even try to concern myself with...

We have folks in our guild that currently take business trips, vacations, go out of state or even out of country to take care of things, and generally don't log in for a year or more on occasion.

If this becomes a competetive mechanic, the Guild mechanic in general will become a point of failure for DDO in general, by alienating Casual players abroad.

We'd rather welcome back an old friend that didn't log in for a year than to find out they logged in and were booted for some idiotic competitive reason, and left due to the grief of having been abandoned, with not enough incentive to actually play much.

That important "Welcome back, bro!" factor is crucial for retention.

Exactly. If they are inactive due to a real life thing going on, they are unlikely to be up to date on whats what in the game and will probably be unaware of the new reason for them to have been booted. Sure we can make posts on our guild forums etc, but inactive members don't always check forums.

They very well, as you pointed out, not know why they have been booted and we miss when they log in as we don't see it announced in guild chat. It would be a real shame to loose some of these long term players. We've been trying to get an answer on this for weeks. Its about time we got one, as lets face it, having to boot people when they go inactive, perhaps only for a month may become a logisitical nightmare.

[Daliyn]

They very well, as you pointed out, not know why they have been booted and we miss when they log in as we don't see it announced in guild chat. It would be a real shame to loose some of these long term players.

I see the problem, but is it really that crucial? If I take a week- or monthlong break from a game and come back, I see to get important information asap. If I'm in a guild, I'll at least have a look into their forum. And even if I log on and discover that I've been booted from the guild, where's the problem just to ask my leader or any member about the reason? Additionally, there's always the possibility to contact these members and explain their booting by mail or ingame mail.

[Dysmetria]

We've been trying to get an answer on this for weeks. Its about time we got one, as lets face it, having to boot people when they go inactive, perhaps only for a month may become a logisitical nightmare.At least they have another hour to come up with an answer. I guess it is hard to put a positive spin on "Playing anything less than daily will now hurt your guild."

[Whippy]

I see the problem, but is it really that crucial? If I take a week- or monthlong break from a game and come back, I see to get important information asap. If I'm in a guild, I'll at least have a look into their forum. And even if I log on and discover that I've been booted from the guild, where's the problem just to ask my leader or any member about the reason? Additionally, there's always the possibility to contact these members and explain their booting by mail or ingame mail.

Unfortunately in game mail only lasts 3 weeks. As a guild that has been around 4 years we have hundreds of members and keeping track of them all would be very difficult. Sure I can post on our forums, just some of our older members I know don't use that website as their was an older one before, or some have been in Iraq for a year or more. If its only a week or 2 holiday then sure its not gonna count, but hundreds of inactive people will make a hell of a difference.

[KhyberPseud]

At least they have another hour to come up with an answer. I guess it is hard to put a positive spin on "Playing anything less than daily will now hurt your guild."

I found information about the way guild favor works to be strangely absent from the release notes. :/

[Donnie]

Personally, I expect it to be screwed up in some fashion...so im not going to worry about it right now. No use stressing a flawed mechanic.

However, I will be immediately pointing out every flaw on the forums until they patch it 3 or 4 times and finally get it right ;)

[Zenako]

If your an old guild with lots of old semi active to inactive members on the roster, just consider yourself "screwed".

NOW, one way to address this would be to create a NEW guild for all the active members and leave a MotD about the new guild and the why of it. Might have to tweak the name a bit, but that should not be too hard. That lets all the active members work with a small guild size and reap whatever benefits that gives while not bogging down the guild with dead weight.

Last we knew, the cutoff for "SMALL" guild was 25 accounts. Not sure that anything smaller is relevant.

[Zenako]

Personally, I expect it to be screwed up in some fashion...so im not going to worry about it right now. No use stressing a flawed mechanic.

However, I will be immediately pointing out every flaw on the forums until they patch it 3 or 4 times and finally get it right ;)

Many of us have been doing that already for many weeks on the Lammania forums. Not sure much about the core was tweakable for them, althou they did play around with the drop rates for Guild Renown awards a bit.

[Elfvyra]

Exactly. If they are inactive due to a real life thing going on, they are unlikely to be up to date on whats what in the game and will probably be unaware of the new reason for them to have been booted. Sure we can make posts on our guild forums etc, but inactive members don't always check forums.

They very well, as you pointed out, not know why they have been booted and we miss when they log in as we don't see it announced in guild chat. It would be a real shame to loose some of these long term players. We've been trying to get an answer on this for weeks. Its about time we got one, as lets face it, having to boot people when they go inactive, perhaps only for a month may become a logisitical nightmare.

Add them to your Friends list. This will allow you to see when/if they come back and you can then send them a Mail or Message to explain what has happened. If the list is too big for 1 person, divide up the list among alts or officers.

[cpito]

They need to create another rank in guilds for inactive members.... maybe an "honorary member" for all those people who can't play for extended periods because of rl issues.... especially military personnel. They would have no effect pos or neg on guild ranking.

[Whippy]

Last we knew, the cutoff for "SMALL" guild was 25 accounts. Not sure that anything smaller is relevant.

This is interesting, and thank you for that information. Perhaps then there is a cut off for 'medium' and 'large' guilds.

If its a cut off point, say 50 for medium and 75 for large for example, it may not be nessecary to kick out older members if you are already over the cut off point?

Be nice to get some dev feedback on this as there was nothing in release notes.

[Whippy]

They need to create another rank in guilds for inactive members.... maybe an "honorary member" for all those people who can't play for extended periods because of rl issues.... especially military personnel. They would have no effect pos or neg on guild ranking.

Nice Idea.

[SunderInc]

Boot 'em. Their acc't will count towards your number(s) and drag you down like the dead weight they are.... ;)

so people with REAL life issues such as ACTIVE SERVING MILITARY on the frontline of REAL BATTLE not MAKE BELIEVE ******** are deadweight?

wow, this is the reason why making friends in this community where priorities are obviously flipped is not important to me. I bet you're an adult too...
This is a freaking game, no one cares really if you have GreenSteel Underwear... really. They don't.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

so people with REAL life issues such as ACTIVE SERVING MILITARY on the frontline of REAL BATTLE not MAKE BELIEVE ******** are deadweight?

wow, this is the reason why making friends in this community where priorities are obviously flipped is not important to me. I bet you're an adult too...
This is a freaking game, no one cares really if you have GreenSteel Underwear... really. They don't.

Dude, chillax. I think he was being facetious.

[smatt]

Ya who knows... At least in Thac0 I think we're going to wait and see for a week or 2 to see how the decay works etc before deciding what to do. We already have a 3 month policy in place, so that if you don't let us know that you're going on extended leave from the game, we remove toons that haven't logged in for 3 months. I'm not all that sure that having 10 or 20 extra accunts will make that big of a difference though... But we shall see

It would be nice if Turbine gave a more detailed account of how systems like this are INTENDED to work though. Just like with the ToD rings players have been asking since they came out what EXACTLY are the intended effects and what are the ones that they KNOW aren't working. Still waiting.. Of course....... :(

[cpito]

No offence intended Sunder but I think you failed your sarcasm check ;)

[Kintro]

Last we knew, the cutoff for "SMALL" guild was 25 accounts. Not sure that anything smaller is relevant.

Was that from an official comment or is it obvious what size your guild is? Just curious because this post (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=255958) about guild competition had tiers:



We will have several contest tiers that you may compete in depending on the size of your Lamannia guild team:

Tier 1: 6 or Fewer Lamannia Guild Members
Tier 2: 7 to 15 Lamannia Guild Members
Tier 3: 16 to 40 Lamannia Guild Members
Tier 4: 41 to 60 Lamannia Guild Members
Tier 5: 61 to 100 Lamannia Guild Members



I was curious if these numbers had some relevance to the guild size boundaries.

[Zenako]

Was that from an official comment or is it obvious what size your guild is? Just curious because this post (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=255958) about guild competition had tiers:



I was curious if these numbers had some relevance to the guild size boundaries.

The 25 was from other threads on Guild Discussions. The Guild Competition that Tolero set up was artificial sizes due to the rather small population of players on Lammania from what I could see.

Will look for the post, I think it was from Madfloyd.

read this thread...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=255759

[SunderInc]

No offence intended Sunder but I think you failed your sarcasm check ;)

none taken.
lol
i just continue to meet these people in-game that are wrapped inside this stupid game and disconnected from what qualities actually build a strong guild. they look for ingame ability as opposed to human character. disheartening, and no he wasn't being facetious...

[Donnie]

Many of us have been doing that already for many weeks on the Lammania forums. Not sure much about the core was tweakable for them, althou they did play around with the drop rates for Guild Renown awards a bit.

Yep yep, I put in my input on the "bags" (before they changed that) but when it comes to decay I never felt they would be able to get a proper analysis based on the Lam populations and timeframe. Not to mention they were pushing for a deadline so only so much was going to change.

Not sure how they currently plan to determine decay, but if it is solely based on member count then that is one strike immediately. It needs to be based on current active member count or else it will never be right.

Like I have said in other threads, Turbine has much to learn about guilds and there will be growing pains. This is the first time they have ever put any real resources into guilds in DDO so I can only but expect repeated failure :D

[MrkGrismer]

Well, with zero decay until a guild gets above 25th level (from what I understand) it will be a few weeks before any guilds will be affected by it, if at all.

[Zenako]

Well, with zero decay until a guild gets above 25th level (from what I understand) it will be a few weeks before any guilds will be affected by it, if at all.

weeks? me thinks it will only be days..., almost certainly before the holiday weekend.

[MrkGrismer]

weeks? me thinks it will only be days..., almost certainly before the holiday weekend.

That depends on how fast the guilds gain renown on live, it might take longer then on Lam; and I believe on Lam none of the guilds in the competition made it to 25th level within the the time of the competition.


Highest was EW at level 20. Surprisingly, the second and third highest guilds at 19 and 17 were the smallest of the competitors :eek: we got some veeeery interesting results out of this competition. Some groups did much better than expected for their size (or much worse). We also got very good information about the ransack issue and were able to make more adjustments as a result, which is a win for everyone. :)

[Zenako]

All I know is that everytime the Developers have set up some sort of carrot on a stick to dangle in front of the players, they have managed to accomplish the task or beat the raid in far less time than they had thought it would take. Never underestimate the power of a bunch of DDO geeks to optimize and accomplish whatever they set their minds to.

Heck most casual guilds will be lucky to have an airship by the end of the summer, but at the other end of the spectrum, it will be fierce.

[Elfvyra]

none taken.
lol
i just continue to meet these people in-game that are wrapped inside this stupid game and disconnected from what qualities actually build a strong guild. they look for ingame ability as opposed to human character. disheartening, and no he wasn't being facetious...

Wow... you're a mindreader, too?!? I'm in a large Guild where we still have members listed who haven't played for over a year. None of which are military, btw. And yes, I'm an adult. Have been for longer than you've been alive. I'm also a Military Retiree with over 31 years in service. My husband retired with 33 years in service because he wanted to retire the same date I did. So again you're incorrect for referring to me as "he". Any other misconceptions I can clear up for you? ;)

[etla]

If we boot them as soon as we login will we still get their decay for the whole first day or week or however long the period is?

Decay only effects guilds over level 25. If you can get your guild to level 26+ on the first day then I don't think you have to worry about decay from inactive accounts.

[MrkGrismer]

All I know is that everytime the Developers have set up some sort of carrot on a stick to dangle in front of the players, they have managed to accomplish the task or beat the raid in far less time than they had thought it would take. Never underestimate the power of a bunch of DDO geeks to optimize and accomplish whatever they set their minds to.

Heck most casual guilds will be lucky to have an airship by the end of the summer, but at the other end of the spectrum, it will be fierce.

Yeah, but i would think those guilds that exceed level 25 within 'a few days' aren't going to have to worry about renown decay. Or they might be the ones that get to 'test' how hard the decay hits at the top levels (75-100).

[Kintro]

This is probably the closest we're going to get to an official response:


Yep, ditto. I had pumped my guildies up to start getting renown and for some of the inactives to get off their humps and come help lest I groom their chars out of the list.

[Dysmetria]

Another question I have been wondering about is what happens if you are in two guilds on the same account and server? If I don't log onto one for weeks will it give that one's guild decay, even when I am on the other character in a different guild daily? If not, will the guild leader of the character I don't log in for weeks have any way of knowing I am not causing his/her guild decay?