Ninja

[wax_on_wax_off]

So everyone is drooling over the mechanic but I started wondering about the new Ninja-spy PrE for monk and its application for rogues.

Drow (or halfling) 13 rogue (assassin) / 6 monk (ninja spy) / 1 fighter

Str 12 (+1 tome for Power Attack)
Dex 16 (level ups)
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 14
Cha 10

Skills: Hide, Move Silently, Disable Device, Search, UMD, Balance. Points in tumble, jump, open lock, diplomacy and spot as desired.

Feats:
7 feats +3 bonus monk feats +1 fighter +2 bonus rogue
Weapon finesse
TWF, ITWF, GTWF
Point blank shot, Quick draw, Rapid Shot
Toughness, Power Attack, Improved Critical: Piercing
Dodge (for Ninja Spy PrE)
Crippling strike
Slippery mind (or another)

Enhancements:
drow melee and ranged enhancements
monk dark and wind enhancements are priority
PrE enhancements and prereqs
rogue haste and skill boosts

The real question in this build is whether the obvious suckiness of shuriken can be overcome. The intention is to have a comparable (or better) attack rate than melee with ten thousand stars (+50%), quickdraw (+20%?), rapid shot (+20%), wind stance (+5% insight), and inflicting damage with sneak attack and other affects.

Strengths:
full trap skills
excellent stealth skills
assassinate ability (may come too late to be useful)
good saves, evasion and slippery mind
exceptional damage when sneak attacking
reasonable damage when not sneak attacking
good to excellent AC

Weaknesses:
1. very spread out stats requiring:
strength (for power attack)
dexterity (primary build stat)
constitution (more important for rogues than most other classes)
intelligence (assassinate and trap skills)
wisdom (primary stat for monks)
leaving charisma as a dump stat even though it governs diplomacy and UMD.
It would be possible to make the build strength and/or wisdom based, dumping dexterity to 12 (+1 tome for point blank shot) and taking brutal throw or zen archery feat instead of weapon finesse. This would give a damage boost and/or a boost to monk skills at the cost of AC and saves if strength or melee attack bonus if wisdom.
It is very possible to have only 10 intelligence and boost dexterity and wisdom at the cost of skills points, bonuses to search and disable and lowering by 3 points the DC of your assassinate ability.

What do you think? Are shuriken viable when considering rogue sneak attack damage of +8d6 and bonuses to attack speed? Would investing in ranged overtly affect his melee capabilities? Is this the best ninja yet?

[Aerendil]

Forget shuriken.

This is a solid setup for a high AC (you can reach a self-buffed AC in the 70s with the right feats/gear), very good dps (sneak damage of 7d6 from 13 Rogue, +2d6 from Assassin II, and another +1d6 from Ninja I - plus any other bonuses), centered rogue/monk (for wind stance).

Go shortswords as your main weapon, with vorpal kamas and a couple of pairs of handwraps (for slimes/rusties), and you're sorted.

/6 Monk will net you a self-haste of 10%, with 5% double-strike ability, plus the ability to cast a 1min 25% incorporeality buff on yourself when things get nasty.

Trust me, it'll be a great combo, but shuriken are a lost cause.
Stick with melee.

Use your shuriken for hitting ranged targets such as levers, or for causing distractions when you want to be stealthy.