Is Turbine taking us for a very big ride?

[joneb1999]

Ok we already know they are messing with combat which causes a nerf to a lot of builds, which means to fix those builds we will need to spend 1000s of points in the store which even after counting for favor point rewards means loads of money for them. Now they are telling us that later on they will change combat again, in this case two handed fighting to make it work more like the twf changes!!! So imo that means if you fix your build to make it work for update 5 you will have to spend more turbine points again to make it work when they once more update 2hf or again be sub optimal or just ignore that toon!!!

What the hell is the point playing your barb or even altering the build after update 5 unless you have plenty cash to waste? Is this a better system for players than previous subscription model or is Turbine just taking the mickey? Guess what Turbine dont give a a monkeys as when LOTR free to play goes live they are going down the same route again.

Turbine you reap what you sow. If you abuse your players like this loyalty will just be lower and when a decent new game comes out from a company playing fairer Im sure people will happily jump ship to them.

[Cheg]

Welcome to the world of micro-transaction/cash shop games.

[Daggaz]

They took me all the way to level twenty and back again! Wheeeeeee!!!! I even got to ride an airship!! Yaaaaayyy!! =D

[smatt]

Congradulations Sir you are #2,000! And for being the lucky winner of the "Post the 2,000th thread of doom on U5" you shall be immune to all U5 nerfs! :D

[SolarDawning]

I'm fond of llamas, myself.
Unfortunately, the llamas have a tendency to spit at you. And this isn't ordinary spittle we're talking about, but utterly disgusting reeking multi-stomach herbivore bile dredged from the most fowl pits of camelid intestinal hell.

If llamas aren't your thing, you could try a pet parrot. They're intelligent pets, but are loud, messy, and can develop odd psychological quirks from being caged up in someone's home for years. Then they commit suicide.

[Durion]

Ok we already know they are messing with combat which causes a nerf to a lot of builds, which means to fix those builds we will need to spend 1000s of points in the store which even after counting for favor point rewards means loads of money for them. Now they are telling us that later on they will change combat again, in this case two handed fighting to make it work more like the twf changes!!! So imo that means if you fix your build to make it work for update 5 you will have to spend more turbine points again to make it work when they once more update 2hf or again be sub optimal or just ignore that toon!!!

What the hell is the point playing your barb or even altering the build after update 5 unless you have plenty cash to waste? Is this a better system for players than previous subscription model or is Turbine just taking the mickey? Guess what Turbine dont give a a monkeys as when LOTR free to play goes live they are going down the same route again.

Well, the "nerf" has been around longer than the store. You DON'T have to spend your TP to fix your toon. If you don't want to spend it, reroll, that was the only option we had pre last September.

Nerfs always have been and always will be a part of this game. At least we now have the option to fix our toons now when they make changes to the game.

The other option you have it to utilize the feat swap system. You can fix your toon without paying a dime.

[Gkar]

I like rides. And anything worth riding should be big.

[Captain_Wizbang]

First of all OP, you have to think about why they are making changes to the combat system!

Turbine has said the main reason is to fix lag!
OK, I'll buy that!

Also, I dont know how long you've been playing, but, the current Sword & board vs, TWF vs. THF is all messed up!

They are working on striking a proper balance between the fighting styles, and reducing lag at the same time.

What is so wrong with that?

I've been playing on the test server with my 2nd account, and I really dont have too many complaints! (however, I don't have a monk there)

I dont agree that the changes are being done to boost sales in the store!

The store & TP have their up & down sides as we all know, and quite frankly, they are learning as we go just as we the players are!

OP... NOT signed :eek:

[joneb1999]

Congradulations Sir you are #2,000! And for being the lucky winner of the "Post the 2,000th thread of doom on U5" you shall be immune to all U5 nerfs! :D

Read what I wrote. Its not about the U5 nerf its about being messed around by Turbine to the point of them trying to financially work you over.

To Ferd:
Why otherwise would they nerf the barb when the plan is to make him all better later? If you want to keep playing that too at optimal you have to kepp fixing him big time which Turbine hopes that it means players will go to the shop for hearts of wood each time. Im not looking for you to sign my post, lol, and no offence but you are showing some ignorance if you think because something thing is broken in one place its ok to then be broken in another as well.

[Hydro]

To the OP, where did the devs say they would consider reworking THF mechanics. I follow these forums pretty well and I have not seen a dev post stating that.

[Hokiewa]

Read what I wrote. Its not about the U5 nerf its about being messed around by Turbine to the point of them trying to financially work you over. Why otherwise would they nerf the barb when the plan is to make him all better later?

You think barbs are being cheated NOW? Lmao, get a clue.

Games evolve for the better or worse. Congratulations on finally discovering Turbine's secret plan of actually turning a profit on this game!

You either go along with it, or quit or keep playing and pretending you quit. That is the life cycle of an online game. If the U5/U6 updates prove financially negative, expect changes. I wouldn't hold your breath though.

[Giantsbane]

They took me all the way to level twenty and back again! Wheeeeeee!!!! I even got to ride an airship!! Yaaaaayyy!! =D

+1 Rep to you sir.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Read what I wrote. Its not about the U5 nerf its about being messed around by Turbine to the point of them trying to financially work you over.

To Ferd:
if you think because something thing is broken in one place its ok to then be broken in another as well.


To the OP, where did the devs say they would consider reworking THF mechanics. I follow these forums pretty well and I have not seen a dev post stating that.

1) OP don't start throwing insults around!
2) Hydro is right!
3) You are overreacting to something that isnt even finalized! Give it a rest until we have the actual update, or Turbine makes a post about the final changes on Lamania.

[joneb1999]

To the OP, where did the devs say they would consider reworking THF mechanics. I follow these forums pretty well and I have not seen a dev post stating that.

Anyone back me up here please?

[Giantsbane]

Ok we already know they are messing with combat which causes a nerf to a lot of builds, which means to fix those builds we will need to spend 1000s of points in the store which even after counting for favor point rewards means loads of money for them. Now they are telling us that later on they will change combat again, in this case two handed fighting to make it work more like the twf changes!!! So imo that means if you fix your build to make it work for update 5 you will have to spend more turbine points again to make it work when they once more update 2hf or again be sub optimal or just ignore that toon!!!

What the hell is the point playing your barb or even altering the build after update 5 unless you have plenty cash to waste? Is this a better system for players than previous subscription model or is Turbine just taking the mickey? Guess what Turbine dont give a a monkeys as when LOTR free to play goes live they are going down the same route again.

Turbine you reap what you sow. If you abuse your players like this loyalty will just be lower and when a decent new game comes out from a company playing fairer Im sure people will happily jump ship to them.

I've been playing since live beta. I have yet to see a "nerf" break this game. There have been many that I didn't like, but they didn't break the game.

Is Turbine trying to make money off of us? Do Dwarven wenches have beards? Are the answers to these questions obvious? :D

[Hokiewa]

Anyone back me up here please?

Lol, you made the post....You back it up....

[Durion]

Anyone back me up here please?


Lol, you made the post....You back it up....

Well, if someone agrees then it MUST be true.

[joneb1999]

1) OP don't start throwing insults around!
2) Hydro is right!
3) You are overreacting to something that isnt even finalized! Give it a rest until we have the actual update, or Turbine makes a post about the final changes on Lamania.

Quote the insult you are talking about. You are just out to make trouble with me where as I am saying what I feel about Turbine. As for the rest my quote is based on things I have read in these forums so if Im wrong its because the source I have used is wrong.

Giantsbane Turbine cant make everyone happy and they know that. It is good that you are happy but by what I read in the forums the game has been broken for a lot of players who have left. Im beginning to wonder if the forums are reliable. Who is really genuine out there and just who wants to flame and argue? And are you right just because I cant find the source I read from.

[Hydro]

Sigh I really hoped I missed a dev post saying they were looking into THF and how to make it competitive with TWF post update 5.

People seem to forget or never knew, the devs originally announced the maximum offhand chance would be 55% within a few hours they bumped that up to 80% (100% Tempest 3) I do not think they did any consideration on how that would affect TWF dps compared to THF.

THF needs to be buffed back, personally they should of just fixed the barbarian capstone and left glancing blows and the Epic Sos how it was. The Epic Sos doesnt cause DPS lag now does it.

[Aurora1979]

i wonder if the forums are being used too much as a point of referance.

What i mean is.... if anyone is going to leave the game, for whatever reason they may well post on the forums to explain their reasoning. This is especially true of what i will term the forum stalwarts.

However, I see far fewer posts by newcomers. Like, proper new.... "hi im just downloading and was wondering....." however We do get a few posts from the "hi i been here X months and I was wondering" crowd.

This might skew the thoughts of people into thinking that there is a mass exodus.

Dont get me wrong, its always sad to see someone leaving when they have played the game for years and came out with decent builds, guides etc. But we dont get a similar list of how many new subscribers have arrived for that one person that left.

Tubs run a business and its not all that surprising that they are just looking for bums in seats. If you get 50,000 subscribers you get lots of money. IF they can get 1,000,000 f2p/premium/vips then they have probably worked out what sort of figures they could be aiming for.

I said, about a year ago, that as with any game DDO DOES have an ending to it. People think MMO's just run and run forever but unlike a normal game, which has a "well done you completed everything screen" MMO's just reach a point whereby they do not entertain the individual anymore. For whatever reason.

Its inconcievable to assume that the devs could keep the game changing, updating and developing for 4 years..... and the next umpteen whilst still keeping everyone happy.

Enjoy it while it lasts, when its no longer enjoyment then Congratualtions you have complete the game. thats how i think of it anyway.

[Steven]

Only thing close to them saying THF would be looked at is this from eldarin but not sure it really a difference for THF as much as glancing blows.

It’s likely that we’ll change Glancing Blows to operate in a similar manner in the future as well (chance to proc based on feats/enhancements rather than guaranteed on swing X), but right now I have to stay pretty focused on TWF and monk unarmed combat.

[joneb1999]

Sigh I really hoped I missed a dev post saying they were looking into THF and how to make it competitive with TWF post update 5.

People seem to forget or never knew, the devs originally announced the maximum offhand chance would be 55% within a few hours they bumped that up to 80% (100% Tempest 3) I do not think they did any consideration on how that would affect TWF dps compared to THF.

THF needs to be buffed back, personally they should of just fixed the barbarian capstone and left glancing blows and the Epic Sos how it was. The Epic Sos doesnt cause DPS lag now does it.

Hydro I maybe did go a bit OTT but Im not trying to troll or grief. I read recently that the devs said they are to later fix 2hf with a proc based system similar to 2wf though I cant remember if it was mentioned in a dev post. I also remember reading some guys reply to the devs as being along the lines of why then nerf it in the first place but just wait to you know how you want the 2hf system to work and then make the changes then, just once instead of twice.

My only thought was then it means if you buy a lesser heart to fix your toon after update 5 then when Turbine make the changes again you will just have to either lump it or again lesser reincarnate. Each time it means turbine points and since I also read Turbine were not for giving free turbine points to reincarnate (thought I dont know where that post is now) that also inevitably means money in many cases.

[Dark_Helmet]

Just think of us as frogs that are in a nice warm pot of water... over a fire that has been heated slowly.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/22/37181211_82b9132958.jpg

[Kralgnax]

It's the underpants gnomes' new plot

1) Update which makes the sky fall in!
2) ???????
3) Profit!

Even the more deluded should be aware that there are 1872745372 other games out there, the Devs (especially the most evilicious ones) and a plan which invloves "making our game suck so people will want to play more" is a bit of a non-starter.

Can we back away from The Trilateral commision, illuminati and black helicopter stuff now, please?

[Captain_Wizbang]

Hydro I maybe did go a bit OTT but Im not trying to troll or grief. I read recently that the devs said they are to later fix 2hf with a proc based system similar to 2wf though I cant remember if it was mentioned in a dev post. I also remember reading some guys reply to the devs as being along the lines of why then nerf it in the first place but just wait to you know how you want the 2hf system to work and then make the changes then, just once instead of twice. .
Joneb, no one is trying to throw you under the bus. And I personally dont attack players here on the forums!
Turbine? yes I have ranted/ raved/ flamed and carried on like a lunatic! But I dont get into character assassination of players. Not my style bro:cool:

I do have a question for you.
Do you play on Lamania?
or are you going by what you're reading in the forums?

[Hydro]

See thats the thing people really need to go on Lamannia and test things out, personally if half of the THF players went on and saw how slow the combat is they would probably be more constructive posts with actual feedback and numbers.

[Missing_Minds]

Ok we already know they are messing with combat which causes a nerf to a lot of builds, which means to fix those builds we will need to spend 1000s of points in the store which even after counting for favor point rewards means loads of money for them.

Huh? What did you do? Build a one trick wonder? I'm spending 0 points on changes, and I've got character effected by this.

[Gkar]

Huh? What did you do? Build a one trick wonder? I'm spending 0 points on changes, and I've got character effected by this.

Min/maxers in all games consider their toons ruined completely if they are no longer 100% maxed as planned. If you were #1 on healing/tanking/dps/whatever and now you are #2 you automatically suck and need to be redone so you are now perfectly min/maxed again.

[SquelchHU]

Anyone back me up here please?

It's in the original mega thread.

Basically they're removing all glancing blows when moving now, and later making it an x% thing (so basically THF AA will take another nerf and be unreliable).

[joneb1999]

Ferd its what I read. Check out this post by Stephen as this is what Im talking about. As far as Im concerned glancing blows is what 2 handed fighing is all about...


Only thing close to them saying THF would be looked at is this from eldarin but not sure it really a difference for THF as much as glancing blows.

It’s likely that we’ll change Glancing Blows to operate in a similar manner in the future as well (chance to proc based on feats/enhancements rather than guaranteed on swing X), but right now I have to stay pretty focused on TWF and monk unarmed combat.

Why would Turbine make a nerf just to fix it later if what is said here was actually quoted by Eladrin? The only benefit I see is people turning to the shop to buy lesser hearts of wood to fix their toon each time.

Kraignaxx thats quite a funny quote satirising conspiracy theorism. The underpants gnomes actually informed Turbine that humans are often stupid and are easily convinced of lies such as when they get to adulthood they believe Santa doesnt exist.

[Captain_Wizbang]

See thats the thing people really need to go on Lamannia and test things out, personally if half of the THF players went on and saw how slow the combat is they would probably be more constructive posts with actual feedback and numbers.
(http://media.photobucket.com/image/first%20place/apelle/14da81c8.gif?o=209) (http://media.photobucket.com/image/first%20place/apelle/14da81c8.gif?o=209)
hydro for the win!

(http://media.photobucket.com/image/first%20place/apelle/14da81c8.gif?o=209) (http://media.photobucket.com/image/first%20place/apelle/14da81c8.gif?o=209) (http://media.photobucket.com/image/first%20place/apelle/14da81c8.gif?o=209) (http://media.photobucket.com/image/first%20place/apelle/14da81c8.gif?o=209)http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm299/chefricochet/animated/th_14da81c8.gif?t=1276640049
(http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm299/chefricochet/animated/?action=view&current=14da81c8.gif&sort=ascending)
/signed

[Pyromaniac]

Actually I think its quite clear. The nerfs are designed to drive store sales. I don't believe that there is going to be a completely lag free experience from the nerfs.

We'll see if it works. Personally I'd rather not have update 5 at all. If its bad enough, then I'll continue to reduce my roster of characters or not bother playing at all. Still hoping for Neverwinter Nights Online....come on Atari, let's get it done.

[SquelchHU]

By the way, Lammania is completely useless as a test environment. Conditions there do not mirror Live either pre or post Nerfdate 5 due to enemies having lower HP on the test server than they would on Live or in the patch. End result? You think your characters are still fine, but they actually aren't.

The devs are even on record flat out admitting that Lammania conditions do not mirror the actual test conditions (Nerfdate 5, as it will be released).

And yeah, now they're trying to backpedal and say they plan on lowering mob HP on live but before this they went on record stating that Lammania HP being lower was a known, but unintended problem.

Keep in mind even if they do lower mob HP to the point where it still takes the same number of seconds to kill the mob, this still makes combat slower (speed boosts removed or nerfed) and less reliable (offhand proccing less than before, and less than 100%). And the main appeal of DDO is fast paced combat where what you see is what you get (aka swing at a mob, and you attack and damage it). So even if they do end up doing this, and I doubt they actually will the end result is that one problem out of two is eliminated... which is nice and all, but even one elephant does a fine job of filling the room.

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

Ok we already know they are messing with combat which causes a nerf to a lot of builds, which means to fix those builds we will need to spend 1000s of points in the store which even after counting for favor point rewards means loads of money for them. Now they are telling us that later on they will change combat again, in this case two handed fighting to make it work more like the twf changes!!! So imo that means if you fix your build to make it work for update 5 you will have to spend more turbine points again to make it work when they once more update 2hf or again be sub optimal or just ignore that toon!!!

What the hell is the point playing your barb or even altering the build after update 5 unless you have plenty cash to waste? Is this a better system for players than previous subscription model or is Turbine just taking the mickey? Guess what Turbine dont give a a monkeys as when LOTR free to play goes live they are going down the same route again.

Turbine you reap what you sow. If you abuse your players like this loyalty will just be lower and when a decent new game comes out from a company playing fairer Im sure people will happily jump ship to them.

These conspiracy theories about being forced to spend tp in the shop are laughable.

There is absolutely nothing you need to buy because of u5.

These nonsense fantasy posts are getting old fast.

[Kalari]

Honestly Turbine is a business, things that make them money are of course going to be prevalent. I think I covered my main problem with our new found fame was it feels like im more of a consumer now instead of a part of a community and the more we grow the more things revolve around the micro transactions the worst the feeling for me have been but I understand it. I dont feel they are taking us for a ride, I feel they are changing, some feel its for the better, some dont, all we can do is play till we dont enjoy it no more then move on. The sad thing is even last year (well okay before the august delay) even with my guild and friends not signing on much and the **** we took from the escapist I was hopeful I was thinking Im going to be here till Turbine shuts it doors down, I loved the community and felt apart of something unique. Now its become a game its fine its what happens but still kinda sad. But business is business and Id rather see this game continue to prosper and move on with my memories then to see a game I used to love fail.

[techknowannie]

is there an mmo that doesn't like to swing the Nerf bat from time to time,? cash shop or no nerfing is a staple in mmos or we would not have such a colorful term for it. I have played at least 1 mmo that blindly thwacks anything in range with the nerf bat it seemed

[Rickpa]

I've been playing since live beta. I have yet to see a "nerf" break this game. There have been many that I didn't like, but they didn't break the game.


If you were a non-elf/drow pure rogue when Update 3.3 hit, when search DCs became impossible, you might think differently. Good thing Turbine backed away from that disaster. If this is really a disaster, it won't hold either.

[Missing_Minds]

Min/maxers in all games consider their toons ruined completely if they are no longer 100% maxed as planned. If you were #1 on healing/tanking/dps/whatever and now you are #2 you automatically suck and need to be redone so you are now perfectly min/maxed again.

True.. they tend to have that attitude, saddly.

*blink blink.. takes a double take at the female elven avatar after noting the name*

thats.... just not right.

[joneb1999]

These conspiracy theories about being forced to spend tp in the shop are laughable.

There is absolutely nothing you need to buy because of u5.

These nonsense fantasy posts are getting old fast.

Its not the first pug I have been in with my cleric where I have been asked why is your mana runing out as mana pots can be bought from the store and they are cheap. I know of a few clerics who carry bundles of mana pots and they buy them from the store. I have been playing this game lomg enough a lot more than casually and I havent witnessed enough mana pots in chests or rewards that reason why some people can maintain a stack of a hundred. And because that is available and some folks can and will pay for it I find myself being queried as to why I dont carry them.

But no theres nothing you need to buy as well as wedont need to even be vip. if we donthave the cash we can be ftp and just grind, grind, grind loads of toons on favor runs to build up tp so we can afford adventure packs and to fix gimps in early builds so we can be more than just mediocre in a party whilst othewr people are actually playing the game. And we can be limited to one auction at a time.

Fantasy posts? Dont you agree we dont need houses with separate bedrooms, kitchens, living rooms, toilets and we dont need computers in our lives and we dont need to drink anything but water. Ths thread is not about fantasy but about being fair and realstiic, about maintaining a level of play within the game that makes you a player and not just a meddler in regards to when Joe is running Epic SOS with his greensteel and raid items, Jack is running Korthos asking for an elite opener so he can build a 100 favor for the 50th time!

[Missing_Minds]

Its not the first pug I have been in with my cleric where I have been asked why is your mana runing out as mana pots can be bought from the store and they are cheap.

Do you ask them if they are paying your bills?
Do you ask if you actually know them?
Do you ask how they are going to pay back the favor?

Put simply if a pug asks me that, I ask for the plat to go buy them on the AH if it means THAT much to them.

[joneb1999]

BTW to whomever did it giving bad rep because I posted a thread that was questioning Turbine and the game development is really childish. I always thought bad rep was for abusing people, being nasty and very offensive in a non civilised way.

[sigtrent]

You know they had nerfs and changes to class balance for the last 4 years before they had re-specs and micro payments. The two have nothing to do with each other. These nerfs are small potatoes vs some of the changes in the past.

Find me an MMO that doesn't make nerfs and changes and I may give it some credence.

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

Its not the first pug I have been in with my cleric where I have been asked why is your mana runing out as mana pots can be bought from the store and they are cheap. I know of a few clerics who carry bundles of mana pots and they buy them from the store. I have been playing this game lomg enough a lot more than casually and I havent witnessed enough mana pots in chests or rewards that reason why some people can maintain a stack of a hundred. And because that is available and some folks can and will pay for it I find myself being queried as to why I dont carry them.

Ever hear of something called a heal scroll? Don't need any tp to get a stack of 100 of those.

Makes it real easy to not run out of mana when you use those in combination with casting.

If you are running out of sp there is either something wrong with your group with respect to the quest you are running, or something wrong with your casting choices.

I've been playing only my cleric for the past few weeks, and just leveled to 19 and I have not seen this 'run out of mana' problem.

[joneb1999]

You know they had nerfs and changes to class balance for the last 4 years before they had re-specs and micro payments. The two have nothing to do with each other. These nerfs are small potatoes vs some of the changes in the past.

Find me an MMO that doesn't make nerfs and changes and I may give it some credence.

Fair enough about nerfs but now they have a mechanic in place that allows a player to respec for points and real cash that is not limited by subscription

The one thing that subscription and no shop allows for is equality for all in the game where a nerf affects the game mechanic equally for everyone involved and alters the game for everyone placing them all still on a level playing field and the game balances out for everyone. Now if bulds are nerfed players with money to throw around can just go to the shop to empower themselves again. Others less advantaged have to accept the nerf bat but the game can not balance out now for them unless they pay out.

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

Others less advantaged have to accept the nerf bat but the game can not balance out now for them unless they pay out.

That's not true. You still have the same option available that we had before any kind of respect was put in the game.

Delete. Reroll.

The fact that you don't want to do that doesn't mean the option doesn't exist. And it makes your comments about having to pay out easily dismissed as not true.

[joneb1999]

Ever hear of something called a heal scroll? Don't need any tp to get a stack of 100 of those.

Makes it real easy to not run out of mana when you use those in combination with casting.

If you are running out of sp there is either something wrong with your group with respect to the quest you are running, or something wrong with your casting choices.

I've been playing only my cleric for the past few weeks, and just leveled to 19 and I have not seen this 'run out of mana' problem.

I use heal scrolls and that was the answer to the question about mana pots but that partilular pug was pretty bad, very demanding and I got to the point where I wasnt about to use any more good scrolls on them. The last party I had had friends and everyone made it so easy for me I didnt need to dig into scrolls at all and could throw around some destruction and blade barriers and missed out one shrine. And that does happen a lot for me.

So either you havebeen running consitantly with friends and guldies or you have been very luck indeed not to have gotten into one or two bad pugs that left you tearing your hair out as they burned through your resources.

[Yagi]

Well I highly doubt that Turbine gather around in robes prostrating themselves before a cashop altar they sacrafice babies to while twirling their moustaches and laughing in unison. Looking through the forums it seems that they have always had situations where they made changes that messed up builds long before the cashop existed (just like what happens in every mmo)

At least we have in game options to tweak our characters to deal with changes, in most games when your char is fundamentally changed by the devs, your SOL and you can either deal with it or abandon years of raid gear and reroll.

[Aristalla]

They should put one in Six Flags Atlanta so I can ride it too. Or Vision Land, even closer.

[Donnie]

Lol this is a kiddie coaster compared to pre EU.

[smatt]

By the way, Lammania is completely useless as a test environment. Conditions there do not mirror Live either pre or post Nerfdate 5 due to enemies having lower HP on the test server than they would on Live or in the patch. End result? You think your characters are still fine, but they actually aren't.

The devs are even on record flat out admitting that Lammania conditions do not mirror the actual test conditions (Nerfdate 5, as it will be released).

And yeah, now they're trying to backpedal and say they plan on lowering mob HP on live but before this they went on record stating that Lammania HP being lower was a known, but unintended problem.

Keep in mind even if they do lower mob HP to the point where it still takes the same number of seconds to kill the mob, this still makes combat slower (speed boosts removed or nerfed) and less reliable (offhand proccing less than before, and less than 100%). And the main appeal of DDO is fast paced combat where what you see is what you get (aka swing at a mob, and you attack and damage it). So even if they do end up doing this, and I doubt they actually will the end result is that one problem out of two is eliminated... which is nice and all, but even one elephant does a fine job of filling the room.
:rolleyes:

[knightgf]

Loyalty = Nothing to Turbine.

Money = Turbine cares about more than anything.

Its very difficult to mix loyalty with money because quite often, the money alone can spoil loyalty.

[Deathseeker]

joneb,

Do you feel your current Barbarian (lvl 20) is maxed right now in game and optimal, with all available gear (ie Epic SoS), etc? Do you display perfect "twitch" ability when fighting a single mob to max dps?

The reason I ask is this...I understand why a player who "has it all" is upset. They reached their pinnacle, and the pinnacle is being lowered, and they don't see a way to make up for it.

But if you aren't in that category, what's the big massive change that will make the game go from great to horrible instantly and cause rerolls, rebuilds, quitting, etc?

If you don't currently use an Epic SoS (or for that matter even a Min II), don't twitch optimally, or if you don't wear epic or GS gear yet, you still have so much upside even after the nerf that you still have lots of things to achieve and lots of advancement for your toon left.

I'm also curious what you would reroll your Barbarian into? A TWF toon? Well that wouldnt make sense if your doing it due to nerfs. A S&B, or maybe an AA? Even casters are getting changes that many consider nerfs.

So I would suggest not to read forums/release notes and pre-determine the game will suddenly not be fun. Keep playing, enjoy the new content/features, and relax...the nerfs are across the board (except ranged and S&B). Even mobs are getting nerfed in epic. So the end result for you may be something a bit different, but may not be any less fun.

[DarkAlchemist]

Actually I think its quite clear. The nerfs are designed to drive store sales. I don't believe that there is going to be a completely lag free experience from the nerfs.

We'll see if it works. Personally I'd rather not have update 5 at all. If its bad enough, then I'll continue to reduce my roster of characters or not bother playing at all. Still hoping for Neverwinter Nights Online....come on Atari, let's get it done.

As much as I despise Atari and 4e DnD I am right there with you but the lawsuit will dictate, I bet, if we see NWN MMO or not. If it comes out f2p then may the DMs of yore help us all cause we would be jumping from the frying pan into the fire back into another frying pan just on a different fire.

[cpito]

BTW to whomever did it giving bad rep because I posted a thread that was questioning Turbine and the game development is really childish. I always thought bad rep was for abusing people, being nasty and very offensive in a non civilised way.

They give neg rep for beating a dead horse too.

Or maybe they give it to people who think Turbine should be run by Santa's elves.

[Chromus]

Cudge, please stop whining. You have been leaving the game for the last 6 months. Just go if you dont like it or enjoy if you do.

[Hambo]

i wonder if the forums are being used too much as a point of referance.



I think they are. I also think this is a bad thing, as all it takes is one incorrectly interpreted statement from a Turbine employee to cause a 'snowball effect' ending in the all too often seen "Everybody knows" argument.

Quoting a forum post as fact is about as smart as basing your doctoral thesis on data from Wikipedia.

[Hambo]

Its not the first pug I have been in with my cleric where I have been asked why is your mana runing out as mana pots can be bought from the store and they are cheap. I know of a few clerics who carry bundles of mana pots and they buy them from the store. I have been playing this game lomg enough a lot more than casually and (1) I havent witnessed enough mana pots in chests or rewards that reason why some people can maintain a stack of a hundred. And because that is available and some folks can and will pay for it I find myself being queried as to why I dont carry them.

But no theres nothing you need to buy as well as wedont need to even be vip. if we donthave the cash we can be ftp and just grind, grind, grind loads of toons on favor runs to build up tp so we can afford adventure packs and to fix gimps in early builds so we can be more than just mediocre in a party whilst othewr people are actually playing the game. And we can be limited to one auction at a time.

Fantasy posts? Dont you agree we dont need houses with separate bedrooms, kitchens, living rooms, toilets and we dont need computers in our lives and we dont need to drink anything but water. Ths thread is not about fantasy but about being fair and realstiic, about maintaining a level of play within the game that makes you a player and not just a meddler in regards to when Joe is running Epic SOS with his greensteel and raid items, (2)Jack is running Korthos asking for an elite opener so he can build a 100 favor for the 50th time!

(1) Funny, All of my Alts on Orien seem to get at least 2 Mnemonic pots from each quest I run, which I subsequently give to my Alts that use them. When I solo, I break all the breakables and have taken 20+ healing pots from STK in a single run. Of course, when I solo I do the entire quest, not Zerg.

(2) Jack's being a lazy SOB. It doesn't take all that much time to run the Korthos quests to elite. He's looking for the "Easy Button" that'll ruin the game for him by leaning on those who have already gotten what he doesn't want to earn.

[joneb1999]

you know this has caused me so much grief. its not worth it. this forum is not worth the hassle. you say something and you are patronised, insulted and ridiculed by complete strangers. nah its not worth it.

[smatt]

They give neg rep for beating a dead horse too.

Or maybe they give it to people who think Turbine should be run by Santa's elves.


Dead horses are much safer to beat... Live ones kick and bite :eek::D

[MrWizard]

its a free game, don't have to spend any money if you do not want.

kinda overdoing the whole 'nerf' my build thing, sorry.

it has been a fun ride so far, can't wait for more.

[cpito]

Dead horses are much safer to beat... Live ones kick and bite :eek::D

Yea... but some people prefer the kicking and biting! :eek:;)

[joneb1999]

Tomorrow Turbine will make a lot of money with people spending cash to buy tp for reincarnations and feat swaps to reshape their melees, rogues and clerics and to buy their diamonds to build the boats they want for their guild. I hope this isnt the future of gaming, where even in the fantasy world people who are relatively poor in reality will be equally disadvantaged and like in the real world they will have to grind in the fantasy world to try and be equal.

Hit me with your flames ye defenders of Turbine, capitalism and cynicism and those who misinterpret what Im saying cause you know you want to.

[EnzerFender]

I'm fond of llamas, myself.
Unfortunately, the llamas have a tendency to spit at you. And this isn't ordinary spittle we're talking about, but utterly disgusting reeking multi-stomach herbivore bile dredged from the most fowl pits of camelid intestinal hell.

If llamas aren't your thing, you could try a pet parrot. They're intelligent pets, but are loud, messy, and can develop odd psychological quirks from being caged up in someone's home for years. Then they commit suicide.

Well stated metaphor my good man.

Imho, the ones that are complaining the most are in the tunnel. There are many angles of enyoing in this game.

The metaphor above perfectly shows that every other game goes through the same changes or is just a cartoon, or doesnt have a....

Eveyone gets the same changes so that doesnt mean you still cant be the most Uber player in your class or play style.

[Boromirs]

Well stated metaphor my good man.

Imho, the ones that are complaining the most are in the tunnel. There are many angles of enyoing in this game.

The metaphor above perfectly shows that every other game goes through the same changes or is just a cartoon, or doesnt have a....

Eveyone gets the same changes so that doesnt mean you still cant be the most Uber player in your class or play style.

Love how all your toons are NOT melee.

[EnzerFender]

Love how all your toons are NOT melee.

Mossburg and Staeyr are both TWF proficiant and lean more on melee.

Mossburg will have 12 levs of fighter at 20.

[Aristalla]

Dead horses are much safer to beat... Live ones kick and bite :eek::D

Dead horse: takes a lickin' and keeps on.....well....taking a lickin'

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/MethodicalMayhemER/Aris%20Stuff/deadhorse7.gif

[Vint]

If you don't like the way the game is going or being "nerfed", just quit the game! I know we all like to come to the forums to vent and complain, but do you honestly believe that Turbine cares what we think? If half of the whiners left maybe. We all know the routine, people will complain for a few weeks after the mod then back to the norm.

[Cendaer]

Read what I wrote. Its not about the U5 nerf its about being messed around by Turbine to the point of them trying to financially work you over.

OK, first of all, understand that the role of ANY AND ALL corporation(s) is to consume as much money as they can convince consumers to spend on their products or services.

Next, you need to understand that consumers are paying Turbine for the privelege (remember: a privelege is not a right) of using something Turbine created, and which Turbine continues to upgrade.

The next thing to note is that DDO is a game. Games, by virtue of their very nature, must have a balance of rules which favors no particular player. Even a game as simple as checkers has balance; both sides start with an equal number of checkers placed in particular positions equidistant to each other on the playing field. If either player started with even ONE more checker than their opponent, it would drastically effect the balance of the game.

People can cry "NERF!" until they're blue in the face, but it's still ultimately Turbine's decision to make. They know the intricacies of their own game, and know where they intend to take it in the not-too-distant future. That's what their customers are paying them to do: be creative, keep being creative, and keep their creation(s) alive and available to their customers.

If you think for one minute that Turbine doesn't realize their decisions sometimes make some people less than happy, you're being naive. The fact that Turbine would press forward with something that's making some people unhappy, is proof that they're interested in keeping their creation alive and available to their customers.

Turbine must really believe that what they are doing is going to be making more people happy with them than it's going to make unhappy. Customers tend to express their happiness by loosening or tightening their purse-strings as they see fit.

If Turbine's changes and updates don't make enough people happy, then we soon won't have to worry about them ever changing DDO again...

[Stormwine]

I got an email from Turbine confirming they are taking me on a big ride!
It looks something like this!
http://www.shangralafamilyfun.com/coaster7.jpg

[Cendaer]

Still hoping for Neverwinter Nights Online....come on Atari, let's get it done.

... and THIS?!

OMG, the things you find in some of these threads.

Atari needs to just step away from all things DnD-related. They've never done anything to actually help DnD into the realm of video games. They're just milking a ca$h-cow for as long as they can.

[cdemeritt]

Yeppers, but the ride started 4 years ago, and who knows how long it will continue... probably until we all just quit.

[Sinni]

if you don't have some heavily multiclassed (6 and more levels) flavor of the month build (mainly 6 level of ranger for tempest) you may be nerfed, but there is no point on respeccing, because you'd make the exact same choices again.
and if you have one of those: that's a drawback you should have been aware from the start. these sophisticated builds are much more vulnerable to game changes. and those changes DO and MUST happen on any MMO. you get a char that is better, but you don't know for how long

my plain twf kensai with some tactical feats will stay exactely as she is

[EnzerFender]

I got an email from Turbine confirming they are taking me on a big ride!
It looks something like this!
http://www.shangralafamilyfun.com/coaster7.jpg

People pay lots of money to take those rides for enjoyment.

This one is even free.

Thanks for the ride Turbine.

[dopamine]

... and THIS?!

OMG, the things you find in some of these threads.

Atari needs to just step away from all things DnD-related. They've never done anything to actually help DnD into the realm of video games. They're just milking a ca$h-cow for as long as they can.

rofl, and what exactly do you think turbine is doing?