Question on Kaelth's Touch Trinket

[Baervan]

I just finished up the Necro 3 chain and was going to cash in my eerie scarab for one of the items. The Kaelth's Touch Trinket sounds interesting but I have one question with it. It is listed as having a DR 5/evil and with the standard listing for DR being that it lists what bypasses the DR -- isn't that the exact opposite of what the item should be?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Lamannia/KaelthsTouch.jpg

Shouldn't the item have a DR5 /good?

[Darkrok]

This always threw me off too but it is supposed to be 5/evil. Just like the bracers from Korthos that prevent piercing damage are 3/piercing.

[Drekisen]

DR/evil means that only weapons or monsters with inherent evil bypassing attacks will get thru the DR, that being said, think of how many DDO players are good aligned......however it does not mean they automatically bypass dr/good.......unless ur a level paladin.

The DR/evil will give u 5 DR from just about every monster in the game, as most of them do not weild evil weapons, so it's a very very nice trinket to have.

Basically whatever is after the DR/ is what it takes to bypass it.

DR/- is of course not capable of being bypassed.

[Mendalyn]

I spent a little more than an hour one day testing out that trinket on my monk, and found out that it:

Protects against 5 points of all physical damage, whether good, evil, lawful, or chaotic aligned.

Does not stack with the monk dr 10/epic or barbarian dr.

I had a barbarian friend happily beat on me for a few minutes in the brawling pit, with various weapons, and even Metalline of Pure Good didn't get through the dr. However, to test the /evil in the damage reduction, I did a quick Bloodstone run in the Sands of Menechtarun, and had a skeleton archer at the second bloodstone chest shoot me for a while, since they seem to have unholy weapons (which do evil damage in the combat log), and watched the log the whole time. The physical damage was indeed reduced from his arrows, but the evil damage was untouched. It also works against undead in the Necropolis quests, and in Shavarath, which were the only areas I turned my combat log back on to check (I usually keep it off to help a little with lag).

I don't have any screenshots to prove any of this, since my testing was for myself at the time, and it was a few months ago so the item may be changed, and I haven't worn it for a while since my monk level 20 dr overrides and is superior to it, but the item was very useful for levelling up, since it seemed to keep me alive a lot longer than I would have otherwise.

Also, I understand the item description saying that evil should bypass its dr, but my testing was to check if it really did, and it seems glitched.

[Baervan]

^^ Good to know. Thanks for posting your results Mendalyn.

[Darklight_Soulweaver]

I always wanted to get that item and have the necessary scarabs to do it. Just never got around to get it, but from the description I thought that it has a 5 DR protection against evil(i.e. only work against evil alignment with neutral and good get pass).

[SolarDawning]

I always wanted to get that item and have the necessary scarabs to do it. Just never got around to get it, but from the description I thought that it has a 5 DR protection against evil(i.e. only work against evil alignment with neutral and good get pass).

The word after the / is the type of damage which bypasses the damage reduction.
There is a simple standardized notation which all damage reduction follows, and this one is no exception.

5/Evil means that evil aligned weapons bypass the damage reduction.
It has nothing to do with the alignment of the creature attacking, evil is a damage type that can be associated with weapons.

Here is the full list of possible weapon damage type properties in DDO: Adamantine, Mithral, Byeshk, Cold Iron, Alchemical Silver, Crystal, Good, Evil, Chaotic, Lawful.

[SolarDawning]

I spent a little more than an hour one day testing out that trinket on my monk, and found out that it:

Protects against 5 points of all physical damage, whether good, evil, lawful, or chaotic aligned.

Does not stack with the monk dr 10/epic or barbarian dr.

I had a barbarian friend happily beat on me for a few minutes in the brawling pit, with various weapons, and even Metalline of Pure Good didn't get through the dr. However, to test the /evil in the damage reduction, I did a quick Bloodstone run in the Sands of Menechtarun, and had a skeleton archer at the second bloodstone chest shoot me for a while, since they seem to have unholy weapons (which do evil damage in the combat log), and watched the log the whole time. The physical damage was indeed reduced from his arrows, but the evil damage was untouched. It also works against undead in the Necropolis quests, and in Shavarath, which were the only areas I turned my combat log back on to check (I usually keep it off to help a little with lag).

I don't have any screenshots to prove any of this, since my testing was for myself at the time, and it was a few months ago so the item may be changed, and I haven't worn it for a while since my monk level 20 dr overrides and is superior to it, but the item was very useful for levelling up, since it seemed to keep me alive a lot longer than I would have otherwise.

Also, I understand the item description saying that evil should bypass its dr, but my testing was to check if it really did, and it seems glitched.

None of that is confirmation that the item is not working properly. Just because the archers in Sands have evil damage dealt on attack does not necessarily mean that their weapons are typed as Evil.

And, in reference to your PvP testing... Of course Metalline of Pure Good wouldn't bypass x/Evil DR. Why would it? Metalline of Pure Good weapons are Adamantine, Byeshk, Cold Iron, Mithral, Alchemical Silver, and Good. Do you see Evil there?

If you really want to see if it's working, have someone hit you with a Greensteel weapon. All Greensteel weapons are considered evil aligned, and thus should bypass the DR granted by the trinket.

[Mendalyn]

None of that is confirmation that the item is not working properly. Just because the archers in Sands have evil damage dealt on attack does not necessarily mean that their weapons are typed as Evil.

And, in reference to your PvP testing... Of course Metalline of Pure Good wouldn't bypass x/Evil DR. Why would it? Metalline of Pure Good weapons are Adamantine, Byeshk, Cold Iron, Mithral, Alchemical Silver, and Good. Do you see Evil there?

If you really want to see if it's working, have someone hit you with a Greensteel weapon. All Greensteel weapons are considered evil aligned, and thus should bypass the DR granted by the trinket.

The metalline of pure good thing was mostly to point out that silver, byeshk, mithral, or whatever couldn't break through the dr- I was trying to be thorough.

Also, in the same way that the holy mod on weapons makes the base damage "good" aligned does the unholy or evil make the base damage of a weapon "evil" and thus, by the description of Kaelth's Touch, should break through the dr. However, by my testing it hasn't.

I've already stated why I can't post screenshots, but was just trying to help the op out and show what process I used to come to my conclusion. Consider all the superfluous tests my ghetto version of the scientific method.

[SolarDawning]

Also, in the same way that the holy mod on weapons makes the base damage "good" aligned does the unholy or evil make the base damage of a weapon "evil" and thus, by the description of Kaelth's Touch, should break through the dr. However, by my testing it hasn't.


You're making a big leap in logic.

You're assuming that because the skeletons deal evil damage, their weapons have either the Unholy or Evil mods.

This may or may not be the case. We, as players, cannot look at the skeleton's inventory and see what weapon they are using.

The sure way to test is to have a player with an Evil weapon equipped (such as a Greensteel) attack in PvP a player with Kaelth's Touch equipped and no other form of DR.

[Mendalyn]

You're making a big leap in logic.

You're assuming that because the skeletons deal evil damage, their weapons have either the Unholy or Evil mods.

This may or may not be the case. We, as players, cannot look at the skeleton's inventory and see what weapon they are using.

The sure way to test is to have a player with an Evil weapon equipped (such as a Greensteel) attack in PvP a player with Kaelth's Touch equipped and no other form of DR.

An assumption yes, but one based on the mechanics of the game- in every case involving player weapons, alignment modifications change the alignment of the base damage of the weapon to include whatever alignment the mod may be.

Of course, I'll be the first to admit I can be wrong (only fools put much stock in being right), but when i reached level 20 the second time around on my monk, I sold Kaelth's Touch to some lucky barkeep since it felt like I was graduating from the thing, I had worn it so long, and was happy to upgrade to the 10 dr monks get.

If anyone can post their results of uncleansed greensteel weapons against Kaelth's Touch, that'd be great.

[Mister_Peace]

uncleansed greensteel weapons
???

[Matuse]

Protects against 5 points of all physical damage, whether good, evil, lawful, or chaotic aligned.

Clearly you did not do such testing, since this is wrong. Anyone wielding a greensteel weapon or the kama from mindsunder would bypass the DR. The DR is not bypassed by anything but evil, so none of the rest should come as any surprise.


Does not stack with the monk dr 10/epic or barbarian dr.

This is how all DR works. No reason the trinket would be any different.


I had a barbarian friend happily beat on me for a few minutes in the brawling pit, with various weapons, and even Metalline of Pure Good didn't get through the dr.

Metalline does not confer alignment breaking properties, and /Good is not /Evil, so this is unsurprising.


However, to test the /evil in the damage reduction, I did a quick Bloodstone run in the Sands of Menechtarun, and had a skeleton archer at the second bloodstone chest shoot me for a while, since they seem to have unholy weapons (which do evil damage in the combat log), and watched the log the whole time. The physical damage was indeed reduced from his arrows

Thus telling us that the weapons do not have /Evil. Try the drow archers in Gianthold. They have similar attacks, and might be using an Unholy bow.


but the evil damage was untouched.

Why would it be? DR never works against elemental effects.


It also works against undead in the Necropolis quests, and in Shavarath, which were the only areas I turned my combat log back on to check (I usually keep it off to help a little with lag).

Just because a monster is evil doesn't mean that it's damage is /Evil.


Also, I understand the item description saying that evil should bypass its dr, but my testing was to check if it really did, and it seems glitched.

Try testing it against a weapon that is KNOWN to have /Evil on it. Greensteel, the Aligned trait, or the upgraded Death's Touch (which gets Unholy Burst).

[Mendalyn]

???

I knew a couple guys, who for whatever reason, used the cleansing stone you get form 20 shroud runs on weapons, which would make the weapon stop doing evil damage.

And to Matuse, at the time I had no such access to those resources, and the testing I did was enough to warrant using it for the time I did. Don't accuse me of not doing the testing, when the whole reason I explained exactly what I did was to show what I missed.

If I had been truely out to mislead the op, I would have just said I tested it against evil damage, period, and not explained where from. As it goes, it seems that the item in question is still extremely useful for most monsters, but there needs to be more testing than my sketchy stuff, that I can't even back up with screenies.

[phalaeo]

BTW, OP...

Kaelth's Touch is one of my favourite named items in the whole game and IMO it is so overlooked. It's not build-making by any means, but I love that I can be naked (no armor/buffs, pervs) in the Orchard and block with 10 wraiths on me and I literally don't have to cast a single spell or even swing a weapon for them to die. Group them up, hunker down, and watch the good damage begin. Even easier farming Taps with a Double pos GS weapon, mass cures/heals, and maybe a Blade Barrier to kite through.

Useful in many situations even until level cap.

The only other two items I can think of that offer Undead Guard are the belt from Amrath (Hunter of the Dead set), which is min lvl. 18 and Black Dragonscale Plate, which is accessible as early as 2-3 levels after Kaelth's can be obtained but is much grindier and has limited usefulness in that slot. There may be other items that I am unaware of and items can be crafted with similar effects (Good Guards on Shroud items).